NationStates Jolt Archive


Lu-45 Hawk Air Superiority Fighter

The Macabees
26-09-2005, 20:54
Lu-45 Hawk Air Superiority Aircraft
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/jay3135/Hardware/lu45.png
[Drawn my Mekugi.]

Abstract:
Through the wars of Emperor Jonach I it was conceived that the Lu-05, although potent, was far too simplistic for air superiority duties. This conclusion was reaffirmed during the War of Golden Succession, in which the Lu-05 was pitted against Havenite aircraft. The simplicity, and inadequacies, of the Lu-05 were underscored by several clients of Kriegzimmer, who many also saw action in the War of Golden Succession.

These inadequacies included lack of relative stealth features, although the Lu-05 did employ some of the very best RADAR absorbing material of the times, lack of maneuverability, and the airframe was far too small to support the features it carried. Furthermore, the Lu-05 was equipped with paraphernalia that didn’t perform to expectations, such as the Pallas Athena, purchased from New Empire.

Consequently, Emperor Fedor I ordered the development of a new air superiority aircraft. The original petitioners were Luftkrieg, Golden Luftwaffe Industries, and Dienstad Aerial Industries. Of all applicants Luftkrieg was chosen and funded, after their two last successful designs, the Lu-05 and the Lu-12. The project was dubbed the ZX-63, and the final product was the Lu-45 Hawk.

The Lu-45 features improved stealth systems despite the dropping of the Pallas Athena active RADAR cancellation system, as well as much better maneuverability, and enhanced aerodynamics. The latter includes more modern, much better designed, wing technology and undercarriage technology, reducing total mass, and thus total drag. Regardless, the technologies of the Lu-45 are worth a chance to look at.

The primary purchaser of the Lu-45, the Empire of the Golden Throne, has ordered it for the replacement of all Lu-05 aircraft, which will amount to a total of some twelve thousand Lu-45 aircraft within the time span of four to five years. The aircraft has also been displayed to the IADF, and may undergo certain revisions there for use within the Rapid Reaction Force, although Space Union is also a contender in the designing of the joint IADF air superiority fighter project.

The Lu-45 is a fully modern [post-modern] design, incorporating some of the best technologies available and incorporates technologies used in other aircraft as well. The Lu-45s purpose was to make a formidable air superiority fighter for the Empire, not to export it – although it will be exported – but, it’s primary purpose was for the Empire. It seems that it has done that, and done that incredibly well.

The Lu-45 flew it’s first test flight in front of an unofficial audience two years after the project began, flying for Emperor Fedor I. The Emperor liked it so much that he ordered the Lu-05s to be slowly scrapped and that some seven thousand Lu-45s be produced for both the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine. It is, indeed, a promising aircraft.

Airframe and Aerodynamics:
The airframe is crafted of steel titanium ribs, covered by an extremely light weight plastic and ceramic composite. The goal wasn’t to provide an armored aircraft, since the most likely case would be that regardless of the airframe’s strength the chances that it would survive a blast within three meters of the aircraft were low. Consequently, Luftkrieg decided to go cheaper but reliable, exchanging harder composites for a lighter ceramic/plastic composite. The specific composition of the ceramic/plastic composite is a Polyamide, polyvinyl chloride [PVC], and polycarbonate coating, along with a plastic bakelite coating, and a zirconium-hafnium alloy. The Hawk is laminated inside and outside with carbon reinforced fiberglass-plastic composed of glass fiber and carbon laminates bound with vinyl ester and polyester resin. The density of the carbon renforced fiberglass composite is about 1,600 kgm^3, but the strength is rated above steel, and while in stiffness it falls a bit behind steel, in specific stiffnets it rises above steel almost six times over. A scrimp manufacturing process is used in construction, involving vacuum assisted resin injection. Carbon fiber and carbon loaded materials have been selected for the beams, mast and supporting structures, which need high tensile strength, for example the support structures for the gun and the electro-optical and radar weapon director. This latter lamination is known to increase stealth, and is extremely light weight, and used by many Swedish shipping.

The shape of the airframe also offers a lower radar-cross section [RCS], and the composite material is covered with radiation absorbent material, which is formed of a composition between honeycomb RAM, black absorbent RAM, and foam absorbers. This groundbreaking design of RAM has allowed the aircraft to absorb between 3MHz to 6 GHz. This means that OTHR designed RADAR systems can no longer pick up the Hawk, allowing it a more advance stealth feature. This RAM technology can also be seen used on the GLI-34 Albatross Heavy Bomber, and has proved successful in combat operations undertaken by several client states.

All angles on the aircraft follow the idea of the polarization angle, also known as Brewster’s Angle, which says that light that is polarized when regarding the interface, will not reflect on a particular incident angle. The angles attempt to all follow the standard guideline of being angled at fifty-six degrees, also much like the GLI-34.

Underneath the layering of RAM, and on top of the airframe, the Hawk features a slick coating of Thymonel 8, a nickel-based aluminum superalloy [NiAl], which has a low tendency for hydrogen environmental embrittlement [HEE], which is a logistical nightmare for most aircraft, and it features an extremely high resistance to heat. It is to say, the Hawk allows for greater velocities, especially when it comes to maneuvers.

The Hawk incorporates two canards just under the canopy, near the fuselage and half-hidden intakes, which are fully reversible, allowing the Hawk to fly in one direction while it’s pointing at another. The technology was first rumored to be available on the Rafale, and now the Hawk is one of the few aircraft that incorporate reversible canard fins.

The wings use a leading edge expansion to create high lift, increasing the flyable alpha by over ninety degrees. Like the Su-33, the Hawk has the ability to pull to an angle of attack of ninety to one hundred and ten degrees, and then pull back to zero. The Hawk also has twin vertical tails to increase stabilization, although they’re relatively smaller than those used on the JSF-35. The Lu-45 Hawk uses a switchblade design for the wings, allowing it to fully extend its wings when dropping bombs, or moving in for precision strikes, it can also move its wings forward, giving it the advantage of forward swept wings for greater maneuverability in aerial fights, and then it can sweep the wings fully forward into a delta type formation for high velocity flights. It is to say, the Hawk can configure its flight for different missions. The Hawk's airfoils are all composed of a Nickel based Aluminum superalloy [NiAl], which enjoys rather great tensile ductility, high fracture toughness and high temperature strength, while keeping up an awsome creep and fatigue behavioural pattern in terms of resistivity. The NiAl superalloy is woven around a matrix, using a chromium strand to bond in each case, showing a substantial gain in toughness.

It is important to point out that the Lu-45 does have a single armored area, and that is the fuselage, which is ‘half-armored’, or more accurately slightly armored, to protect from stray shots, or weaker penetrations. The armor is made up of a stronger ceramic composite, and offers relatively low rolled homogenous armored [RHA] statistics.

Powerplant
The principle powerplant on the Lu-45 Hawk is a dual low-bypass turbofan engine system, putting out forty thousand pound force each. The outer shaft (HP), the high pressure compressor and the high pressure turbine are all made of a sturdier material than the rest of the airframe, including a separate coating of a separate superalloy. This coating is made of a Ni based superalloy with high Cr content and using the d-electron concept. The d-electron concept was developed on the basis of the molecular orbital calculations of the electronic structures of Ni alloys. The two electronic parameters that are important for this concept are the bond order between an alloying element and nickel atoms, Bo, and the other is the d-orbital energy level of alloying elements. This specific composition has high hot-corrosion resistance, tested by the immersion test, where it was tested through weight loss. There is a second coating of Rene N6 single crystal based superalloy called CMSX-11B and CMSX-116, containing Chromium levels of 12.5% to 14.5% respectively. The Rene N6 also increases hydrogen environment embrittlement (HEE), increasing resistance.

The fans themselves are somewhat better made than most out there since they're forged from a mono-crystalline blade, which is something along the lines of Rene N6 only with a heavier mass. Moreover, the turbofan includes a two layer fan in order to increase thrust and force, while using a smaller engine, decrease infra-red signatures. All first stage turbine blades and nozzels are designed using ceramic materials, a biproduct of the Advanced Gas Turbine [AGT] project.

To increase power the Hawk’s turbofans, dubbed LuTJ-2005s, retain a high specific thrust in order to increase to the limit the thrust for a given frontal area. Furthermore, the LuTJ-2005s use multi-stage fans for a higher fan pressure ratio. It also includes afterburner injection to increase specific thrust at certain times, although the Lu-45s engines do not allow it for a longer period of time, making afterburners only useful in certain combat operations and take-off operations.

The variable area air intakes for the LuTJ, as said before, are located halfway under the fuselage, and carry a small silencer, which although it doesn’t silence it all the way, does aid quite a bit in the almost implausible endeavor of silencing the Lu-45 Hawk.

The LuTJ-2005 engines also are designed with multiple infra-red heat depressant mechanisms which act as mechanical coolants, designed to lower, if not extinguish, infra-red signatures coming from the engines. Apart from that the engines also carry what is perhaps the only major Luftkrieg self-designed property. It incorporates a liquid nitrogen coolant based in a miniscule ring which separates the inner walls of the turbojets, lined by the superalloys, and the outer wall of the turbojets, allowing miniature injectors to leave a gloss of liquid nitrogen. The heat is measured by built in thermometers, and the coolant is injected based on those readings.

The Hawk’s maximum velocity remains at Mach 3+, while it’s optimal cruising velocity has been rendered at Mach 2.4, and it’s optimal mission velocity for enhanced stealth is to remain subsonic.

For quicker turns and more efficient maneuvers the Lu-45 Hawk uses Counterflow Thrust Vectoring [CFTV], which decreases weight and increases reaction speed. Of the two CFTV systems to date, the Lu-45 uses that designed in the Portuguese Air Force Academy in Sintra, which uses small jet engines. Nonetheless, regardless on the improvements on thrust vectoring, especially the CFTV fluid vectoring, it is extremely important to know that thrust vectoring works best in subsonic velocities, as opposed to super sonic velocities.

The engines are monitored for mechanical fluidity, heat and pressure by an Engines Indicating and Crew Alerting System (EICAS). EICAS is located in the cockpit and is a section of the Hawk’s avionics.

Avionics:
All electronic systems used by Hawk are line replaceable units and shop replaceable units, making the Hawk’s electronic suit much more logistics friendly. Furthermore, the coolant system used by the engines is also used by separate technology injectors on the electronic and avionics systems, allowing for a much better use of the aircraft’s avionics by the crews. In other words, it decreases the chances of a malfunction.

The avionics suit on the Lu-45 was perhaps the most excruciating part of the design, and it includes several enhanced projects which the Lu-05 disregarded. This includes an Integrated Communications Navigation Identification Avionics [ICNIA] suit, as well as Integrated Electronic Warfare System [INEWS] and high speed data busses. The system is brained by a single supercomputer dubbed Hans, known as a Common Integrated Processor [CIP], and there are two of these located within each Hawk. The CIP is rated at two thousand million instructions per second [Mips], with signal processing rated at fifty billion operations per second . This is aided by the very high-speed integrated circuit (VHSIC) technology, and separate modules.

The Lu-45 Hawk has a Communication/Navigation/Identification [CNI] system, which each CNI having it’s own synthetic aperture installed on the aircraft. The CNI works directly and indirectly with the separate but similar identification friend or foe [IFF] system. Regardless, both work for the cooperation between flights of aircraft. This is further propelled by the Intra-Flight Data Link [IFDL] which allows flights to share target data without using the radio. Finally, to reinforce both the CNI and IFF there us a Joint Tactical Information Distribution System [JTIDS] link.

The Electronic Warfare [EW] system and the Stores Management System [SMS] also work together, much like the CNI and IFF applications work together. The SMS works for launch sequences and to choose weapons, and such, while the former system [EW] works to gather target data and to aid in the detection of other aircraft. The Electronic Warfare system also expends chaff, flares and other countermeasures as seen appropriate; this can also be done manually if the pilot wishes, although he/she does not have to set the setting, as the CIP assumed this. The SMS is aided by two other systems, the Vehicle Management System [VMS] and the Integrated Vehicle System Controller [IVSC], which are avionics racks. The pilot doesn’t need to worry about self-defense, as that’s controlled automatically by an electronic warfare subsystem on the aircraft.

All the systems are directly linked to the pilot through a series of screens crafted from a liquid crystal matrix [AMLCD], which translated to the electronic flight instrumentation system [EFIS]. The EICAS system, described under the engines section, is also centered in the cockpit, next to the Altitude and Heading Reference System [AHRS] and Air Data Computer. For greater pilot versatility and comfort the cockpit includes a Primary Multi-Function display, shown through a polychromatic AMLCD, as well as a single heads-up display screen [HUD] and four up-front display screens [UFP]. These systems offer a ‘gods eye view’ of the battlefield, and the HUD allows a thirty degree view horizontally, and a twenty-five degree view vertically.

The pilot’s wellbeing is monitored by the Environment Awareness Module [EAM], which includes on-board oxygen and pressure levels, as well as temperature levels and the state of the pilot’s nuclear, biological and chemical [NBC] protection suits.

The pilot’s navigational aids include a satellite based reality reproduction [SBRR] system and a hybrid navigational system, which works with gyro inertial guidance and a global positioning system [GPS]. For an all purpose navigational system the Hawk has the tactical air navigational system [TACAN], which is supplemented by a terrain profiling and matching system [TERPROM], much like that used by the Tomahawk missile, which also works hand in hand with the global positioning system and other reconnaissance satellite systems.

For threat management the pilot can depend on an electronic counter-measure system [ECMS], and an Advance Integrated Defensive Electronic Countermeasure System (AIDECM), which uses both noise jamming, deception jamming, and blip enhancement.

[b]Cockpit Ejection System:
The Lu-45 Hawk, as opposed to the Lu-05, includes a cockpit ejection system due to popularity of it in Kriegzimmer's custom designs department. The CES works on a single lever, located on the left side of the pilot's seat, away from all other buttons and levers. The lever stimulates the computer to send a message to the mechanics of the cockpit's plexiglass, forcing it to segregate itself from the rest of the aircraft. Immediately afterwards the pilot and the seat are thrown from the aircraft using a relatively simple hydraulics system.

The seat includes a small booster designed to send the seat away from the aircraft and carry the pilot to safety. The landing system depends on two parachutes, one being the main chute, and the other being the secondary chute. Both chutes are rectangular in shape and made of reinforced canvas.

The seat also has two miniscule thrust vectoring mechanisms on the bottom for rudimentary manuevering done by the pilot to control the landing and to evade fire, and such. However, it's not powerful enough to take the pilot far, and is merely to provide the pilot with a safer landing.

For later detection, the seat includes a global positioning system. This would alert the commanding aircraft carrier or airbase to know where the pilot landed, and where to send a rescue team to. The seat also has an extra sidearm underneath in case the pilot looses his first one.

Sensor Equipment:
The central sensor system [CSS] was designed to take over the confusion of having separate sensor systems, although the Hawk does also include those. Nonetheless, this central sensor system acts like a collective and guides the pilot if the pilot is working in a compressed time space. The system was designed as the Imperial Radio Detection and Ranging Central Nervous System [IRCNS]. IRCNS is a long range, rapid scan, and multi-functional system which is formulated by an antenna that is physically and electrically merged with the airframe, reducing the radar cross section [RCS], and the IRCNS uses a solid-state microwave module, which replaces the wave tube systems of older radars. The electronically scanned array [ESA] has a wider bandwidth, while using less volume and prime power.

The Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) capability of the radar defeats conventional RWR/ESM systems, which means that the Hawk can illuminate an enemy target without that enemy knowing that he was illuminated, working perfectly with the reversible canards. Unlike older designs the IRCNS released low energy pulses over a wide frequency band using a technique called spread spectrum transmission, consequently, because it has lower energy emissions and it doesn’t follow standard emission modules, the Hawk will be harder to detect.

The IRCNS also includes an Inverse Synthetic Aperture radar [ISAR], while allows it to capture an image of a target, and consequently, the pilot can compare that picture with the picture stored on the aircraft’s database. ISAR also helps to create a 3D recreation of the battlefield, which uplinks to the EFIS.

The Hawk includes a bi-static phased array radar on the Albatross’ nose and tail apertures, giving it a three hundred and sixty degree scan, burning through 5th Generation stealth at around three hundred kilometers distance. The bi-static phased array radar needs no physical movement; instead it’s controlled by phase-shifters, which change the degree of the beam within nanoseconds. This system is matched by an infra-red search and track system, (IRST) which uses infra-red technology to track heat signatures for up to one hundred kilometers. The latter system is completely passive.

The Albatross also includes a radar megalith, including an X-band radar, which denotes the Radar’s frequency. This is joined with next generation radar (NEXRAD) which includes a network of small Doppler Radars, and the improved polarimetric RADAR, which adds vertical polarization in order to know what exactly is reflecting the signal back.

This latter radar conglomerate is the secondary sensor version, subordinate to the IRCNS. It is to say, it’s a secondary detection system that can be taken to full advantage by the pilot.

The nose of the aircraft incorporates an active electronically scanned array for passive homing, and a radar warning receiver aerials [RWR]

There’s also a series of LIDAR sensor systems installed throughout the aircraft, including a single down-looking LIDAR system underneath the nose of the Hawk. There are also two wide LIDAR apertures on the front and end of the aircraft, located in hidden pockets to reduce RCS. All three LIDAR systems work similarly, and they all incorporate Luftkrieg’s second generation LIDAR technology. The Hawk’s system is based on a transponder and receiver, beside that of the IFF transponder, which uses a Gaussian transmitter system to transmit LIDAR waves. The Gaussian transmitter is based on two electrical fields sending electrically charged photonic waves to bounce off targets and have active measurements on its velocity and location. The advantage of this LIDAR system is that the active RADAR only needs to gain a location on an object once before the LIDAR can take over, meaning a bomber can turn off its active RADAR to reduce its signature. The Albatross’ LIDAR uses Doppler LIDAR in order to keep track of an object’s velocity, as well as a LIDAR range finder. The missile’s heterodyne-reception optical RADAR uses a standard configuration [transmitter laser > exit optics > atmospheric propagation path > target] and [photodetector > photocurrent processing > image processing / BermCombiner/ local oscillator entrance optics]. The Silencer's transmitter is a Casegrainian telescope, which works much like the photonic mast on an ultra-modern submarine.

Armament Stores:
The Lu-45 Hawk has four optional external hardpoints capable of carrying five hundred kilograms of armaments to seven hundred kilograms of armament each, depending on its location on the wing. These can be either ignored or used as external fuel tanks for extended ranges, although this would substantially increase RCS. Nonetheless, they are there for uncommon missions and such. There are also four bottom mounted missile bays and two internal hardpoints. All the hardpoints are designed to sustain 6G turns, and can sustain minor shrapnel damage without problems

The Hawks preferably use the Kriegzimmer designed AAM 176 BVRAAM, which is an extremely long range air to air missile, predecessor of the first of such to be designed, as it was first classified as a long range air to air missile, but sustains similar to higher ranges as foreign ELRAAMs, thus it was fitting to change its classification. The Silencer must be bought separately from Kriegzimmer, but the Hawk also can be changed upon export to fit either Warsaw Pact air to air missiles or NATO air to air missiles – however, this must be requested before export, or else the client nation has to change it upon their own accord.

Although not typically used by the Empire, the Hawk can also carry ALARM and HARM missiles, and other air to surface variants, including Kriegzimmer’s MLAM-2 missile, and the joint Guffingfordi/Imperial sledgehammer and shockhound avenger missiles. Again, it can also be changed to carry WP or NATO designated weaponry.

The Hawk also carried two single miniature gatling gun, with a revolving chamber, guided by the IRCNS and the three separate LIDARs. It’s designed to act as a small airborne close-in weapon system, located in internal storage bays in the center of the aircraft, pointing towards opposite direction, offering an almost three hundred and sixty degree range, although there are certain blind spots for the guns. Closer to the nose there is also a larger, but relatively hidden, gatling styled 28mm gun, with a two hundred round magazine of mostly penetration rounds.

Conclusions:
The Hawk is destined to be a major contestant in future wars, and has guaranteed continued Imperial superiority over at least their own skies. However, one cannot totally disregard foreign designs, and many of them are superior in their own right. More accurately, the decision of which aircraft to buy should be completed after one had fully studied the aircraft and had decided which aircraft is better for one’s own strategy. Of course, the Lu-45 Hawk is meant for a strategy that closely revolves around that of the Empire. Nonetheless, the Lu-45 Hawk is a great purchase for any developing or developed nation; that cannot be undermined.

The Hawk’s export cost remains at: $120 million USD

Statistics:
Type: Air Superiority Fighter
Length: 19.2m
Width: 5.17m
Wingspan: 14.2m
Height: 5.08m
Propulsion: Two Low-bypass LuTJ-2005 Turbofans
Thrust: 40,000lbf
Empty Weight: 14,561kg
Maximum Take-Off Weight: 27,317kg
Maximum Payload: 3,800kg
Combat Range [on internal fuel]: 3,658 kilometers
Operational Ceiling/Altitude: 9,144 meters
Maximum Altitude: 18,288 meters
Optimal Cruising Speed: Subsonic
Cruising Speed: Mach 2.4
Supercruising Speed: Mach 2.8
Maximum Speed: Mach 3.4
Price: $120 Million
Production Rights Cost: $45 Billion w/ Purchase of 100 Aircraft
Space Union
26-09-2005, 21:32
Nice job :) Although we have our differences in some "technologies" you pulled a good aircraft together. But I do have some problems:

1) I suggest you don't use turbojets. Those are hidously inefficient gas guzzlers. Just use a low-bypass turbofan engine that will provide you better thrust and much more efficiency (resulting in more range).

2) The price should be above $100 million for sure. The F-22 Raptor is above $100 million from what I hear (I might be wrong, haven't checked) and this is much better than a F-22. I suggest over $110 million so you don't get accused of godmodding.

On the side note, if you want I can make you a picture of this. :) But overall good job.
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 21:43
Nice job :) Although we have our differences in some "technologies" you pulled a good aircraft together. But I do have some problems:

1) I suggest you don't use turbojets. Those are hidously inefficient gas guzzlers. Just use a low-bypass turbofan engine that will provide you better thrust and much more efficiency (resulting in more range).

True enough, but turbofans are better designed for subsonic flights, while turbojets have better efficiency for supersonic flights. As this does frequently go supersonic I decided to use turbojets, and that's how it's going to stay for the time being.


2) The price should be above $100 million for sure. The F-22 Raptor is above $100 million from what I hear (I might be wrong, haven't checked) and this is much better than a F-22. I suggest over $110 million so you don't get accused of godmodding.

I think the F-22 is priced just around eighty million. I think ninety million is overall a good price, but if others start complaining I'll raise it.
The Silver Sky
26-09-2005, 21:45
OOC: I have to agree with SU, turbofans are much more effeicent then turbojets and usually give higher thrust to weight ratios. Also the price is too low, the F-22 raptor is much more then this and is less advanced.
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 21:50
OOC: I have to agree with SU, turbofans are much more effeicent then turbojets and usually give higher thrust to weight ratios. Also the price is too low, the F-22 raptor is much more then this and is less advanced.

[OOC: I guess you decided to ignore my comments above your post.]
The Silver Sky
26-09-2005, 21:56
I didn't ignore it, I was posting my post when you posted.

1) You are right on one point, turbojets are better then low-bypass turbofans at high speeds, but high-bypass turbofans are better at highspeeds then turbojets(not to metion more fuel effecient), I my self use a variable bypass turbofan to get the best of both worlds.

2) The slated mass production cost of the F-22 is over $140 million USD, this is way more advanced, as you see most NS fighters more advanced then the F-22 are around $100-$140 million USD.
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 22:00
I didn't ignore it, I was posting my post when you posted.

1) You are right on one point, turbojets are better then low-bypass turbofans at high speeds, but high-bypass turbofans are better at highspeeds then turbojets(not to metion more fuel effecient), I my self use a variable bypass turbofan to get the best of both worlds.

2) The slated mass production cost of the F-22 is over $140 million USD, this is way more advanced, as you see most NS fighters more advanced then the F-22 are around $100-$140 million USD.

1. However, the high by-pass turbofan is designed for almost purely supersonic flights, while the low bypass turbofan is designed solely for subsonic flights. Consequently, when I'm oscillating between the two, I personally prefer a turbojet to any of the other two, because it's a sort of middle ground.

2. Negative, recent releases by the military have marked the cost of the F-22 as 91 million USD. I'll raise mine to 105 million, but no more than that. Furthermore, cost reduction programs by 2010 are designed to take it down to around 80 million, as I originally stated.
Space Union
26-09-2005, 22:21
For the engines:

No low-bypass are much better than turbojet even at supersonic speeds. That is the reason why no RL fighter uses turbojet even though most can fly supersonic or at Mach 1.2. High-Bypass engines are the ones that are meant for subsonic. Although they are more powerful and fuel efficient, they are much bigger, and are used on commercial and large aircrafts which aren't meant to go supersonic. So that is incorrect.

For example: Look at the F-15 which can go Mach 2.5 and uses low-bypass turbofan engines.

One more thing, you should add specs to this like dimensions, weights, and such.
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 22:35
For the engines:

No low-bypass are much better than turbojet even at supersonic speeds. That is the reason why no RL fighter uses turbojet even though most can fly supersonic or at Mach 1.2. High-Bypass engines are the ones that are meant for subsonic. Although they are more powerful and fuel efficient, they are much bigger, and are used on commercial and large aircrafts which aren't meant to go supersonic. So that is incorrect.

For example: Look at the F-15 which can go Mach 2.5 and uses low-bypass turbofan engines.

One more thing, you should add specs to this like dimensions, weights, and such.

The F-15 is a different type of aircraft. The F-18 uses a turbojet with afterburners, as most Warsaw Pact air superiority fighters used turobjets with afterburners, even while NATO was incorporating turbofans, which is why sometimes people refer to Soviet aerial technology as superior, even though Wiki regards it as inferior.

Regardless, I'm going to change my engines to something else that I just thought of. Something along the lines of what you were suggesting, and a lot more.
Spizania
26-09-2005, 22:39
How long would it take to retrain an Lu-05 pilot and mechanics to be able to operate Lu-45s? Its just that right now the Saudi is flying on stimulants and coffee and therefore i cannot afford to take untis out of comabt to retrain them.
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 22:43
How long would it take to retrain an Lu-05 pilot and mechanics to be able to operate Lu-45s? Its just that right now the Saudi is flying on stimulants and coffee and therefore i cannot afford to take untis out of comabt to retrain them.

To: Spizania

The Lu-05 avionics, compared to that of the Lu-45, aren't that different since the cockpit's major difference is that it's expanded and it's much more pilot compatible. The big difference is the addition of more systems, however, most pilots are trained both to fly the Albatross, as well as other aircraft, during their basic training programs, and consequently, it wouldn't be that different to fly the Hawk. It is to say, someone who is traiend to fly the Lu-05 is trained to fly a fighter, and if they also know the avionics on a GLI-34 they should be fine in flying the Hawk.

It's just a matter of how to get used to it. Regardless, the transition between aircraft shouldn't be too difficult.

[OOC: I'll get a response to W@W tomorrow. I've just been busy on NS and in real life. But don't worry, I'll pelt Italy tomorrow again, and put a stop to Poland's shinanigans]
Space Union
26-09-2005, 22:45
The F-15 is a different type of aircraft. The F-18 uses a turbojet with afterburners, as most Warsaw Pact air superiority fighters used turobjets with afterburners, even while NATO was incorporating turbofans, which is why sometimes people refer to Soviet aerial technology as superior, even though Wiki regards it as inferior.

Regardless, I'm going to change my engines to something else that I just thought of. Something along the lines of what you were suggesting, and a lot more.

For that reason, Warsaw Pact fighters tended for that reason to be less effective. They had a smaller range, weren't capable of being as effective, and were really inefficient in terms of fuel consumption. That is why all new fighters including Russian made are made with turbofans. I can tell you off the top of my head that the MiG-29, Su-27 and deriatives are all powered by turbofans.

What did I suggest other than using low-bypass turbofan engines?
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 22:47
For that reason, Warsaw Pact fighters tended for that reason to be less effective. They had a smaller range, weren't capable of being as effective, and were really inefficient in terms of fuel consumption. That is why all new fighters including Russian made are made with turbofans. I can tell you off the top of my head that the MiG-29, Su-27 and deriatives are all powered by turbofans.

What did I suggest other than using low-bypass turbofan engines?


[OOC: I'll tell you right now that when U.S. pilots flying jets with turbofans went up against Soviet aircraft flying with turbojets they were scared to hell at the effectiveness of those aircraft. The only degredation was that the pilots were absolutely terrible, and so were Soviet avionics. But when the MiG-25 came out, you can't imagine the fear that rippled through Western Europe.]
Spizania
26-09-2005, 22:49
OOC: Why do you think i asked about the flying bomb? I was going ot use one ot level Warsaw and end the war in one stroke, also im designing a new ADS system for my new line of Grand Cruisers, i need osmeone good wiht radar and LIDAR systems to design a master control system for me and also do some general balancing, if you dont mind i like to TG it to you to take a look at it to makesure isnt GMing, thats the last thing i need right now.
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 22:53
OOC: Why do you think i asked about the flying bomb? I was going ot use one ot level Warsaw and end the war in one stroke, also im designing a new ADS system for my new line of Grand Cruisers, i need osmeone good wiht radar and LIDAR systems to design a master control system for me and also do some general balancing, if you dont mind i like to TG it to you to take a look at it to makesure isnt GMing, thats the last thing i need right now.

[OOC: Yea, sure, telegram me with all that, and I'll telegram you back with what I think.]
The Macabees
26-09-2005, 23:51
Military Times

Today, the OberKommando des Kriegsmarine officially released plans to scrap all MMA-A2 and Lu-05 aircraft from the Kriegsmarine and replace them solely with the Lu-45 Hawk. More specifically, OKK has ordered a complete batch of 3,270 Hawks, although all of them are to be different variants of that described for the Luftwaffe.

The newer variations are to fully incorporate the fluid mechanical thrust vectoring for verticle take/off landing operations off the carriers. Although the Indestructables do have runways long enough to operate the standard variant of the Lu-45 it was decided that it would be much better to simply employ a VTOL version since that way more Lu-45s could fill the decks of the Indestructables.

Nonetheless, it was a shock since the MMA-A2, although long replaced, even before the accension of Jonach I to the throne, has always been used, if only by the Raus class Escort Carrier, for a cheap and reliable combat air patrol and airborne warning and control system fighters. Nonetheless, the vintage aircraft will go down as one of the most important aircraft in the history of the Empire, both old and new alike. But, many of those supporters of the MMA-A2 fear that it will slip into the volumes of time, just like the first Imperial fighter did, the SS-101, the jointly developed fighter between Artitsa and the Empire.

Regardless, the Kriegsmarine, and Luftkrieg, are deeply excited about the exchange in aircraft technology.
Omz222
27-09-2005, 00:16
OOC: Err, just for clarification, the F/A-18 uses a turbofan, not a turbojet. The MiG-25 yes, but um... how old is it? I simply can't imagine a modern aircraft using a superceded design for propulsion that is inferior in terms of efficiency and performance when compared to newer alternatives. Even more unimaginable is the notion that putting turbojets on it is something that will improve the overall effectiveness of the aircraft. What makes Soviet aircraft excel in some instances is their basic design, not putting turbojets just because somehow some people think that it's better than turbofans. It's not.

EDIT: But overall, in regards to the aircraft itself, it's certainly a fine aircraft. Replying to a comment in the armament section though regarding the external fuel tanks and RCS, I recall that there had been considerations of designing newer "stealthy" fuel tanks that would nullfy the problem of having external fuel tanks on a stealthy aircraft showing up as a big honking horn in terms of RCS, though the obvious cost is price.
Russo-Soviets
27-09-2005, 00:21
The Russo-Soviets would like to buy 20 of these aircraft.
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 00:31
The Russo-Soviets would like to buy 20 of these aircraft.


To: Russo-Soviets
Thank you for showing interest with the Lu-45 Hawk. Your order for twenty has been confirmed and expected shipping time will be twenty-one days. If this order was meant for testing we ask you politely if you could supply us with testing information to see how the aircraft faired. Again, thank you for your time.

[signed]Kriegzimmer Board
McKagan
27-09-2005, 00:35
Because of the current recruitment highs in the Imperial McKagan Air Force, we feel it is possible to make a large force of these plans at the moment to help keep a diverse force and not rely fully on the Su-82.

We would like to purchase 4000 of these aircraft.
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 00:37
Because of the current recruitment highs in the Imperial McKagan Air Force, we feel it is possible to make a large force of these plans at the moment to help keep a diverse force and not rely fully on the Su-82.

We would like to purchase 4000 of these aircraft.


To: McKagan

We are glad that you have looked into Luftkrieg and Kriegzimmer once again. The Lu-45 is destined to be a great coordinator with your Su-82, and with both together, you can't go wrong. Your order has been confirmed, however, because this has just begun to roll off the production line, and we are clearing production of the old Lu-05, shipment will take a bit longer than usual. We can guarantee all four thousand aircraft within eight months; most of the aircraft produced right now are going to the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, consequently, the longer time. Nonetheless, these will be well worth the wait.

Congratulations on your new aircraft, and thank you for your purchase.

[signed]Kriegzimmer Board
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 02:16
[OOC: Just in case you didn't notice, I put the ejection seat in McKagan.]
McKagan
27-09-2005, 02:28
[OOC: Just in case you didn't notice, I put the ejection seat in McKagan.]

[OOC: Good, thankies. Don't ask me why, I'm just really picky about how probable a pilot is to survive after being shot down.]
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 05:18
Mosnoi Bor, the Empire - The Lu-45 is scheduled to make its first appearance in battle over the skies of the Ruska Provence, defending the Empire from the Havenite attack. A single squadron coming straight from Fedala are destined to fly along side squadrons of Lu-05 in the defense of the skies, downing and destroying the Havenite air armada.

In news of this, moral has skyrocketed throughout the ranks of soldiers at the front, feeling the brunt of the Havenite attack. It's expected that this wanderwaffe will be one of many tricks up the emperor's sleeve to destroy those who dare attack his territory. Indeed, it's expected that by christmas the Havenite capital will fall to Imperial troops marching through their territory, claiming yet another area for the Empire and for the Church of the Broken Dawn.

The squadron has been nicknamed the 'Pacifists' for their attempt to stop the Havenite offensive towards Mosnoi Bor, and most of the pilots are suicide watchers, looking for a good fight against Havenite aerial forces. One even said,
I'd die to show my worth against those Havenite bastards. We'll push them to the center of their evil empire and force them to capitulate to Fedor. The Lu-45 will be my sword, and they will be my victim. God's will must be carried out!

In skies filled with the black smoke of anti-air artillery shells, with the dirt and grass churned and charred, and dead bodies filling the air with the most vile of stenches, the Lu-45 will appear like a messiah, just like Jesus did two thousand years before.
Isselmere
27-09-2005, 05:58
As Space Union and Omz222 noted, modern jet aircraft, Western and Russian, use turbofans, not turbojets. In certain circumstances, turbojets are more cost-efficient, but only for a specific, supersonic flight regime. However, as technology advances, turbofans are progressively superseding turbojets in that arena as well. In fact, work is being done on producing a Mach 4+ capable turbofan engine.

The MiG-25 caused a stir because the Americans were surprised the Soviets used an "ordinary" turbojet to achieve Mach 3 flight (the YF-12/SR-71 used turboramjets) and panicky that it might actually be manoeuvrable. After an early example was flown to Japan by a defector, the Americans learned that as a fighter aircraft, the MiG-25 was comparatively little to worry about, especially as they had the F-15.

High bypass ratio turbofans are enormous and practical only for airliners and subsonic flight. Mid-range bypass ratio turbofans -- if they could be called that -- are used in V/STOL aircraft such as the Harrier, which use the bypass air (improper term, I think) for the front cool-air fans. The additional mass of fan-compressed air provides additional stabilising thrust without needing to add complexity of (for 1960s technology) or subtracting the volume needed for the F-35's lift fan. Low bypass ratio turbofans are narrow and comparatively small, achieving thrust-to-weight ratios of 9:1 or more (Eurojet EJ-200, for instance). Now, for speeds of Mach 1.8 and above, the French found that low total compression ratio (8.5:1) low bypass ratio turbofans were more effective than the American high compression ratio (24:1) engines used on the Eagle and other jets.

Also remember, the relatively puny F404 in the F/A-18A produces almost as much thrust as a J79-GE-17 in the F-4E (max. 17,000 lbs - 16,000 lbs., 11,870 lbs. - 10,800 lbs.).
Clan Smoke Jaguar
27-09-2005, 07:27
OOC: The MiG-25 was the last Soviet combat aircraft to be powered by turbojets. The MiG-31, a direct descendant of the MiG-25, was equipped with turbofans instead (they wanted greater range). All Soviet combat aircraft that entered service from 1985 onward (including the MiG-29 and Su-27) have been turbofan-powered. The Soviets were just a decade late with them.
The stigma from performance is mostly due to certain missiles and the high agility of the aircraft, nothing to do with turbojets, and the ones that were really feared (with good reason) were either pre-turbofan, or actually had turbofans.
Even in the west, the F-4 Phantom II was originally turbojet powered, but many upgrades have been offered, several of which included turbofan engines for emproved performance (these are smaller and more fuel efficient for the same thrust capabilities).

High bypass turbofans are for subsonic cruising, but give superior performance on afterburner than comparable turbojets, giving higher top speeds.
Low bypass turbofans are what most modern fighters with supercruise use, and lack the extremely high top speed, but attain more impressive speeds without afterburner. I recommend low bypass for any extremely stealthy fighter.

As for the price, considering the time frame and tech level, I would say this should be at least $120 million (preferably much more), especially with that claim of Mach 2.4 cruise. This is quite a bit further than the F/A-22, and I expect it to be a lot more expensive than just a simple 25% increase over the suggested eventual price.


Finally, I suggest noting the actual internal weapons load. So far, all I know is that there are several bays of undertermined size, and I should know what can fit into them. dimensions might be useful as well.

Edit: I also kind of doubt the 3000 kg underwing hard points. I don't really think that can be done that well. Only the heaviest strike aircraft (ie F-111) carry anything close to that, and I don't think this is supposed to be a strike aircraft carrying numerous 2000 lb bombs.
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 15:23
[Done]
Isselmere
27-09-2005, 17:19
Actually, the F/A-22 has four wing hardpoints (two on each wing) designed for 2700-kg. It would, however, be inadvisable to go above that loading, and likely a maximum of 5400-kg (all hardpoints) should be considered a maximum load-bearing capability for each wing.

An additional problem with high bypass ratio turbofans is drag. Putting one within a fuselage or to secure the full effect from the afterburner would require enormous air intakes (like those on a Harrier) and a massive engine compartment, similar to those on a MiG-25 or MiG-31, for a possible fraction of the total thrust, which is one of the reasons the low-bypass ratio turbofan Spey-powered Phantom II was slower than the J79-powered version.

As CSJ noted, conversions of 1950-1970s era turbojet-powered aircraft generally involve re-engining the aircraft with low-bypass ratio turbofans, such as the F404 and other engines. (I think the early F-16's had turbofans that were comparably-sized to the J79 -- hence the failed low-cost F-16/79 version.)
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 22:54
I just kept my hardpoints to 500kilograms.
Spizania
27-09-2005, 23:02
IL be orderign these superb aircraft, but i ahve a few questions, is there a replacemnet for the Lu-12 in the works and what are the actual minimum takeoff distance for the non VSTOL version when fully loaded?

OOC: Did you get my TG about my Air Defence System?
The Macabees
27-09-2005, 23:25
IL be orderign these superb aircraft, but i ahve a few questions, is there a replacemnet for the Lu-12 in the works and what are the actual minimum takeoff distance for the non VSTOL version when fully loaded?

OOC: Did you get my TG about my Air Defence System?

To: Spizania

No, there will not be a replacement for the Lu-12 Canary any time soon, and the minimum takeoff distance for the standard version of the Lu-45 when fully loaded is four hundred meters [dunno if that's a good length, never been asked that question before].

[OOC: Yea, I got the TG, but haven't gotten a chance to read it all and reply yet.]
The Macabees
21-11-2005, 01:46
A few changes;


1.Change of airfoil material.
2.Addition to turbine contruction material.
3.A brief expansion on the material used on the airframe.
4.Addition of statistics at bottom.

-----

This thing will probably go through changes in wing design soon enough as well.