NationStates Jolt Archive

I was thinking of how to destroy or at least mission kill an SD using vastly smaler ships and such. Most people do this by taking out the radars of the ship by using spread shot rounds to destroy the radars of the ship.

The idea hit me not to destroy the radars, but just to confuse them to the point where they can no longer be used. And I found out a way of doing this the same way we make our aircraft and ships stealthy: Radar Absorbing Paint. In this case it would be a Radar Absorbing Expanding Foam that would also be very sticky. A shell fired from a 20" naval gun would carry a lot of this stuff. It could either exploud on impact and send the foam out from there, or detonate a few meters from the ship and coat it like that. Even if CIWS go to it, the foam might still me close enough to hit the ship. As the ships radars sent out signals, it would be absorbed by the foam, and the returning signals that got through would further be absorbed by the foam.

It would also work with radar reflecting material. Refecting signal sent out by the syetem and reflecting signals being recieved by it. Another delivery system would be by a missile. It could also be sprayed on the radars of ships deemed not useable in a conflict by a treaty or something as a way to render it inoperable, but not destorying it.

The SD would just use information from radars mounted on planes, or other vessels. I also find it a bit farfecthed that you intend to coat ships in foam... but that isnt the main problem with the idea.

Radar uses radio waves. Well wouldn't this stuff also corrupt the information being recieved by the ships?

EDIT: The foam would be expanding and would be able to coat most of the ship effectively.

You could always have a stealth bomber drop the foam charge on the ship - that might spread the foam more effectively. I think it's a plausible idea, though it needs a bit more detail.

well, yea. I was justing thinking about the concept. Refinement will come with time.

it wouldn't work at all....

No, I think you'd get a few laughs but thats about it, if our gunners can't use radar to find their target then they'll use GPS or laser targetters, or even visual observation if they have too.

Besides, flamethrowers anyone?

The radios to recieve the GPS coordsinates would be scrambled and the laser rangefinds would be covered up.

Go ahead and use this in an RP...

"My bombers and naval cannons drop foam on your SDs... The foam then expands and covers the entire surface area of the SD - even though that is like 350,000+ sq meters. Now none of your radar works and you cant fire your weapons at me because the foam is disrupting all of your radar signals..."

Err... So what is the purpose of this foam? At first you state that it is used to confuse radars, but then you also say that it actually comes in physical contact by hitting the ship. On the bottom line though, if some powerful air search/tracking radar can be fooled by a cloud of foam moving at a reasonable velocity, then I'd imagine that radar jammers would already mean the end of radars. Or rather, in regards to putting the material in shells, why would you something that is highly unproven in its concept when you can just put guided submunitions in the shell (since it's going to have the same level of survivability anyways), and in the end kill the radar anyways? Surely, a CIWS would have a low chance of intercepting a BAT-type submunition with a passive radar seeker or even the ordinary IR seeker?

With missiles, again, why expend a lot of on putting it in the missile when it's going to have the same level of survivability as when you put say, an explosive-fragmentation warhead or even a submunition dispenser?

Err... So what is the purpose of this foam? At first you state that it is used to confuse radars, but then you also say that it actually comes in physical contact by hitting the ship.

It would technically have to come into contact with the ship to confuse the radar, but maybe if the foam contained some sort of signal-impassable metal (lead?) it would do what USSNA suggests it could. However, that would make it, of course, very heavy and possibly unwieldy.

Even if it is going to literally float in the sky or travel at a relatively low velocity forwards, I still don't like the idea. On one hand, it might disrupt radar operations on some degree or another (however small or easy to counter with a skilled team of human operators it may be), but unless you are going to have a huge smog of these individual clouds of foam that can actually control its direction and isn't affected by wind, it's a no go. Furthermore, I just can't imagine a powerful radar that is able to search, detect, and track aerial targets in the sky, but will have its operations disrupted by some random radar-absorbant foam in such a way that it can no longer function and effectively contributes by itself to a possible mission-kill status.

There's also the problem of those ships that use real-time satellite uplink features instead of radar. My forces use these, and have found them to be superior to radar in good-weather.

Also, ARE YOU TRYING TO PUT GUYS LIKE ME OUT OF A JOB!!??

They are Radar jamming planes in real life. Google " Intruder Aircraft Radar jamming" and go to the first choice. They are also called prowler aircraft.

You guys arnt getting what I'm saying. The Foam would coat the deck of the ship, not hang in the air. Also how does you satalite uplink system work? I'll have to check up on how satalite communication works, but tif it uses some sort of radio-wave system, his stuff would corrupt them too. It is not ment to totally black out a system, only disrupt it enough to make it not useful anymore.

Also, what about the prospects of a Jamming Submarine? You could fit strounger jammer in it. It could float just below the surface and sit there with it engines off.

You have to understand, Radio covers everything in the long wavelength specturm. The paints only disrupt a certain portion of that spectrum, the rest are fine which is why our stealth fighters can communicate with the base.

The foam only corresponds with the frequencies of certain RADAR frequencies. You'd be more of a disruption to everythign on deck, especially if the foam hardens, you could piss off a lot of people if they have to spend days scraping this gunk off.

As for satellite uplinks, a satellite(s) in Geosync orbit, broadcasting a live feed. I use MicroSats which can be deployed in merely an hour to Geosync and provide real time updates. There is no need to rely on just one system. LIDAR, RADAR, SONAR, Visible, Infrared, Ultraviolet, Microwave and Gamma Emission detectors. Gamma helps me find your nuclear powered ships. Ultraviolet can reflect off even stealth aircraft. It helps if you are checking most of hte spectrum.

In recent wars (Kosovo and Iraq 2003), the US air force dropped 'carbon bombs' on powerlines to short-circuit them and fry them without having to bomb the powerplants themselves. The same idea could work for a ship's radar, maybe.

About foam, it takes a whole lot of it to cover a wide area, and you can't fit very much in a warhead. Foam is also very pourous, which means the radar would be able to transmit anyway because of gaps in the foam's coverage. In order to block the radar you need something hard and dense, like metal.

Creative idea though, really deserves to be looked at, maybe in the future if it becomes practical and cost-effective.

About foam, it takes a whole lot of it to cover a wide area, and you can't fit very much in a warhead. Foam is also very pourous, which means the radar would be able to transmit anyway because of gaps in the foam's coverage. In order to block the radar you need something hard and dense, like metal.

Well, foam is porous, it contains many holes, but they are small, the waves have to bounce around a absorbing foam.

But foam isn't that thick at all. I don't think the radar will bounce around in it. A lot of radars are highly radiactive and will kill you if you stand in front of them. It'll literally burn through the foam.

Well the idea might work for smaller vessels. I would agree that it wont work on SDs. Too big I guess. I am starting to think a jammer sub would be a good bet. Just fill it with powerful jamming equipment. If you have enough of them, you could even jam SD transmissions.

Well the idea might work for smaller vessels. I would agree that it wont work on SDs. Too big I guess. I am starting to think a jammer sub would be a good bet. Just fill it with powerful jamming equipment. If you have enough of them, you could even jam SD transmissions.

The problem with that is, you'd have to get close first no? Plus, their still subs, so they can be detected through sonar - which the Macabees can tell you - is quite effective against targets that are close to a ship's hull.

Not to mention depthcharges, but if you somehow manage to pull it off, let me know.

You guys arnt getting what I'm saying. The Foam would coat the deck of the ship, not hang in the air.
...and what would it do when on the ship? I can't imagine some random block of foam sticking itself onto the hull or deck of a ship and at the same time interfere with the operations of its radar systems. Besides, to repeat the previous criticism - why would you waste effort to put the foam into a naval shell or missile, when you could put systems of greater effectiveness such as guided submunitions or even a regular HE-Frag warhead, since the shell or missile will have the same level of survivability anyways?


Also, what about the prospects of a Jamming Submarine? You could fit strounger jammer in it. It could float just below the surface and sit there with it engines off.
Aside from the issue that it'll be horribly ineffective unless you actually make it surface or design a gigantic mast to hold all the antennas, you'll need to brainwash your crews of these "jamming submarines" to convince them that they won't die in a horrific fashion in their first mission. And I mean it. One moment your submarine plucks its antenna to detect the radar emissions that needs jamming, and one moment when it's actually starting to jam, you got serious problems on your hand.

Well, I guess your saying that jamming aircraft could fair any better in an SD situation.