NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it possible to create a "submersible battleship?" One approximately the size of a Nimitz class carrier with an operating depth of 1km. Opinions are welcome, just try to keep flaming to a minimum. (in MT)

Explain your answer (atleast partially)

(yes this does look like a standardized test question, don't remind me)






(the latest design, check my work, comment)


Ragnarok Class Submersible Battleship BSN-384:


Crew:1800 (total) 1200 (enlisted) 200 (officers) 400 (soldiers)

Length: 984.24ft (300m)

Width: 430.9ft (131.34m)

Draft (minimum navigational draft): 50ft (15.25m)
Draft (limit): 40ft (12.8m)

Height: 54.94ft (16.74m)

Displacement (empty): 60,000 tons
Displacement (full): 73000 tons

Maximum Speed:
34 knots (submerged all drives and screws full power)
26 knots (surfaced 4 drives or all screws)

Powerplant: 2x pebblebed reactors

Drive:
8x vectored jet drives (4 banks of 2 drives)
6x shrouded screws (2 banks of 3 screws)
4x bow thrusters (2 banks of 2 thrusters)

Armament:
15x 16” naval ETC guns
22x 5” naval ETC guns
8x 5” naval EM railguns
8x 20mm Phalanx CIWS
4x 30mm Vanguard CIWS
2x 30 cell VLS (modular)
4x 10 cell VLS (AIM-120G SLAMRAAM)
4x 6 cell VLS (THAAD systems)
22x 40mm Mk. 30 supercavitation anti-torpedo rifles
10x 660mm torpedo tubes (all-purpose)

Armor Material: Titanium/ Depleted Uridium plate
Armor Thickness: 6in. (15cm) to 19.69in. (50cm)

Maximum Operational Depth: .65km
Operational Depth: .50km

ADPASAC 14 Type D:
Quite possibly the single most advanced ship borne radar array on Earth. Developed specifically for the Tanis class this radar array uses a total of 8 panels emitting radar waves to allow for a maximum tracking range of 900 miles and the ability to track up to 2000 targets at once. It is used as the ships missile guidance radar. A missile launched from any of the ships batteries is fed up to date target information until it can reach detection range for its own seeker. During the radar’s guidance period the missile will make even the most minute course correction in order to ensure a direct hit.

Upper and lower arrays are fitted in order to ensure that 360 degree aerial coverage is maintained at all times. A pair of reserve units are kept aboard if they become necessary.

LIDAR/LADAR:
Both are mounted to the Ragnarok class in order to give it total tactical coverage at all times, even while submerged or surfacing.

BQQ-15X:
The ship’s sonar suite is provided by the BQQ-15X, a highly refined form of the BQQ-5D sonar aboard the Seawolf class SSN. It uses four passive/active arrays mounted one on the bow, port and starboard amidships, and stern. A wide aperture passive array also covers all directions. Towed arrays are carried as well. The TB-29A thin line tactical towed array developed by Lockheed Martin premiere among them, as well as a TB-16 surveillance array.

Sound Masking System:
The hull is totally coated in an advanced polymer skin to block outgoing sound waves as well as absorb incoming ones, thus reducing the ship’s sonar cross section by a surprising margin. While still an enormous return the ship’s size is reduced by 5% due to the polymer. The skin prevents the escape of air bubbles as well to further maintain the stealthy qualities of the craft.

Radar Detection and Jamming:
The onboard radar jamming unit of the Tanis class is rated to detect an enemy radar at 150% of its range and in tests jams the radar almost perfectly, a 98% perfect jamming signal cancels all but 2% of the inbound radar wave exponentially reducing the size of the ships surface return, which is already significantly smaller than its submerged return.

Hull Exterior:
The exterior of the Tanis class is a super hydrodynamic form called the angelus hull. Designed by the late physicist Clifford Romanski, it combines flowing lines with multiple panels. These panels are the doors covering the anti-hydrodynamic weapons. Upon surfacing the panels retract and reveal the weapons, ready to fire. The exterior is made of titanium/uridium armor plates of a half meter in thickness to create a near indestructible case of armor.

Hull Interior:
The interior of the hull is a honeycomb of cross bracing in the form of two deck tall hexagonal bracing. Most of the interior space is taken by equipment, however crew still have relatively comfortable accommodations.

Development costs: 400 billion usd
Unit cost: 15 billion usd

In Modert Tech, no. PMT, you just might be able to. FT, probably.

there a reason behind that, or you just doubt that anything that big can be made to work with a military budget to the order of 22 trillion usd directed at nothing else and access to the most advanced machinery possible in MT?

Bump

Because such a 'submerisble super dreadnaught' would be thought of as godmodding in such a MT scenario.

There's no way anyone would think of it happening in MT/PMT.

Not totally true, the japanese had submersible carriers, sure they only carried 1-2 planes, but I'm basically taking modern sub building tech and enlarging it several fold. I'll post the general stats for what I was thinking later...

Bump

in MT, its not possible, current pressure hulls and materials can't handle the kind of stresses that much surface area at that depth
And with the necesary internal space for crew and supplies, let alone the oxygen required for that crew would be so bouyant that it would need something pretty hardcore for ballast, just to get neutral or slightly bouyant (anything else and your ship will never see the surface) in PMT you can get some exotic materials that might be able to handle but it would be beyond pricey.

finally someone gives a reason why...
point taken, I've pretty much scrapped the idea in favor of something more like a submarine battleship. Feel free to continue comments on this new tangent.

about what size are you thinking for the battleship? I imagine you can get up to around 300 meters and remain MT if you have the budget for it.

I was thinking arond 400m, 300 isn't a problem to reduce the size to though if you think that 400-410m is too large.

Waste of time. The great advantage of a battleship is armour. The great advantage of a submarine is stealth.

A 300m long submersible battleship would be neither tough nor stealthy.

It is possible, but not at 1km depths. A super-dreadnought could be made submerciple for a nation my size, but it'll take up so many funds that it would be a fleet itself, if not two or three (price and upkeep wise). Submarines are the most expencive of vessels, always keep that in mind.

Battleship idea stats:
300m
4 16" turrets
12 5" turrets
adequate air defense
40 missiles in VLS
28-30 knots (max)
18 knots (cruise)
titanium hull
3"-20" armor
1800 crew (enlisted & officers)
Max depth: .5km

Look good? If so projected costs please.

FYI, I'll drop the idea if the cost is too high for me to be bothered with and just develop a bad-ass SD. (That will have another thread so stay vigilant for a chance to shut me down again! ::): )

Those gun turrets would produce such massive turbulence that you could hear the d_mn_d thing hundreds of kilometres away!

Plus it's senseless. You can't fire those guns underwater, and it wouldn't be able to use its SAM's for antimissile defence until after it surfaced (it would never be able to get a lock, because radar won't work underwater and sonar can't look through the air), so you'd be vulnerable while the lumbering beast surfaced and prepped its guns and missiles for action.

And it has no torpedoes!!!! For God's sake, man, why would you build a sub without torpedoes? I'd just sail up to the silly beast and plug a couple heavy torps into it.

It's an expensive death trap.

I left the torpedoes off by accident and its supposed to surface to fire! The submersible quality is to protect it from stuff like airstrikes and and n00bs who feel like nuking my ships (don't act like they don't exist) while en route to a battle zone. I also might use some supercav anti-torpedo guns that I've heard of, the world's only counter torpedo weapon.

not too shabby a design, you'll need some torpedoes of course, a few suggestions as well:
Use some sort of Supercavitating turret for anti torpedo work (Incidentaly I sell a wonderful system that functions like a CIWS only under water)
LIDAR/LADAR is the answer to your surfacing vulnerability, that and VLS cells. a Blue/green LIDAR/LADAR array would be highly effective in acquiring targets between water and air and VLS cells (or specially designed missile turrets) would allow you to fire SAMs and other missiles from underwater. With the guns if you seal them from the outside besides the barrel itself the you could fire with only the barrel showing from the water, and if you designed the ship with some sort of fairings for the turrets then underwater drag and noise would be reduced as a problem.

Total cost: +12 billion per ship.

I'l still think it's a death trap.

$12 billion is way too low. Development costs for the first unit would exceed $100-200 billion.

I was going to have the ship surface and open large panels to give access to the guns. when submerged it would close the doors, totally hiding the turrets from being a cause of drag what so ever. The supercav rifles were to be turreted as you suggested. VLS is what I chose for my AA missiles. I'll mount LIDAR/LADAR on this puppy and add torpedoes. New verison to come.

New version finally ready, see first post for the details on the new design.

BUMP (come on I spent like a month revising the design the least you could do is comment)

bump

sounds fun though, but your manuverability would be pretty crap if you take into account how big it is and how much the pressure would affect it at 1km, but im sure you knew that... er whatever.