NationStates Jolt Archive

President José Calderón has called together a meeting of South American States to discuss the recent US aggression into Venezuela, and what can reasonably be done about the situation. The US has been invited to attend as a consideration for them to defend their invasion, as it certainly wasn't defended at all in advance of the actual attack.

Chaim Weizman, although unable to attend, has sent along Ambassador Yitzhak Ben--Zvi.

President Lafuentes himself attends. And makes the observation that direct action against the United States occupation would be too costly. However, if we all band condemn the action and refuse dealings with a new government, the United States will be forced to rethink its strategy as the position of a new government would be untenable.

Daniel Salamaca Urey, the Secretary of State of Bolivia, is sent to the confrence in Buenos Aires, since the Bolivian government was appauled by the US invasion.

President Lafuentes himself attends. And makes the observation that direct action against the United States occupation would be too costly. However, if we all band condemn the action and refuse dealings with a new government, the United States will be forced to rethink its strategy as the position of a new government would be untenable.

haha I have to say again here, Commnista = my puppet.

President Lafuentes himself attends. And makes the observation that direct action against the United States occupation would be too costly. However, if we all band condemn the action and refuse dealings with a new government, the United States will be forced to rethink its strategy as the position of a new government would be untenable.

Urey replies saying, "Even now Bolivia is condeming American agression, and agrees with refusing to recognise or help any new government set up by the USA in Venezuela. I am sure we all want a peaceful Latin America, something my government is trying to premote, and the USA has disturbed the peace even when the Venezuelan Crisis was dying down. I personaly can't see that they had any real reason to invade, it wasn't needed."

Urey replies saying, "Even now Bolivia is condeming American agression, and agrees with refusing to recognise or help any new government set up by the USA in Venezuela. I am sure we all want a peaceful Latin America, something my government is trying to premote, and the USA has disturbed the peace even when the Venezuelan Crisis was dying down. I personaly can't see that they had any real reason to invade, it wasn't needed."

"here here, the Germans had already stood down why did they feel the need to attack? The American representative needs some pretty good answers!" Yitzhak called out

Chile will dispatch it's second secretary from the embassy in Argentina to observe. We stand with the Pan American treaty, and other treaty arrangements with the United States.

tag

China is interested in this conference, so if the Chinese are permitted to attend, we would be honored to do so. We have been puzzled by the Americans for quite some time.

Germany applauds the South American nations for peacefully banding together against the oppressive United States.

Urey replies saying, "Even now Bolivia is condeming American agression, and agrees with refusing to recognise or help any new government set up by the USA in Venezuela. I am sure we all want a peaceful Latin America, something my government is trying to premote, and the USA has disturbed the peace even when the Venezuelan Crisis was dying down. I personaly can't see that they had any real reason to invade, it wasn't needed."

the American Ambassador, who had slipped in unannounced, listened with interest. "As we have announced elsewhere, the United States feels it had plenty of reason to intervene. In 1905 Germany attempted to make Venezuela a colony and the US was unable to prevent it at that time. A couple of years later during the Great War, the situation finally developed where we could force them out of Venezuela peacefully.

But they didn't learn from this. Again they sought to make Venezuela a colony and that forced us to not only blockade that nation to prevent further German reinforcements from reaching that nation, but to ensure that no longer will German money control Venezuelan elections, and German managers run their industry, the United States was forced to step in and occupy Venezuela to ensure that truly free elections can be held. As the US has stated, those elections will be monitored by neutral nations (Peru, Mexico, Sweden, Switzerland) and any government that is created should have every reason to be recognized internationally.

As the US has stated, we will not interfere in the internal affairs of any nation in Latin America, as long as that nation does not threaten the peace and security of all of the Americas. Not two years ago Brazil attempted to ally with Russia and Germany, the very same Germany discussed above. The very same two nations that launched the Great War that killed millions a decade ago. Naturally the United States so this as a very dangerous move, and the US Government was pleased that a peaceful resolution could be obtained that time. But Venezuela was different. Germany had been warned, and the time to act had come. The United States has not criticized your government Bolivia, or yours Brazil. We don't agree with you, but as your governments were freely elected, we respect your right to chose your destiny.

We simply object to any alliance with a nation that would threaten the peace and security of the North America, as after all, as all nations, we have a responsibility to our people. To be blunt, we have the power to protect ourselves and will use it. But we have the power to defend our neighbors as well. We only ask that they be good neighbors.

OOC: Anyone that wants to show up or send a delegation is welcome to.

IC:
President José Calderón: Argentina isn't even thinking of War at this point. The US might be in the wrong with their invasion, but to replace that with another invasion will most likely result in even more Venezuelans dead, not to mention our own people and the US's. However, I am more inclined to accept President Lafuentes plan to not acknowledge Venezuala's new government, whatever it may turn out to be.

Secretary Urey, I agree with your point as well. I am deeply interested in the US's reason for this war, and I cannot accept as a justification the "They had it comming!" reasoning that is being spewed by the US press. Now, I've never really been a friend of communism, but to got to war with a neutral nation because they "might" have been allied one distant day with Germany is ludacris. They might as well invade Brazil with that as their only justification for war.

I am going to place a proposal out for all of us now: Withdrawl from the Pan-American Treaty, and immediately form a commission for a new treaty, where we pledge our mutual defense without the US's involvement. Now, I know Argentina is not the best nation to be propostioning this, as we have never signed the treaty in the first place, and the last thing we need is for a round of finger pointing and "I told you so's". But, as we hear the US delegate speak, or refuse to, consider my words. If we don't stand together, we will assuredly fall apart.

The American Ambassador again emphasizes that a new government in Venezuela will be freely elected, with international observers to ensure a free election is held. Do the nations here fear the result of such an election?

The American Ambassador again emphasizes that a new government in Venezuela will be freely elected, with international observers to ensure a free election is held. Do the nations here fear the result of such an election?

The Chinese ambassador quietly steps from the shadows, and speaks.

"It is not the election itself that has these nations upset and frightened. They could care less what government is established in Venezeula.

The thing that has upset the Argentinans and the other South American nations is the aggressiveness of the United States. They may be asking themselves and the American ambassador, 'What's to stop the United States from attacking more South American nations?'

This is the exact issue that needs to be addressed. The United States has supported independence and national sovereignty, yet violated it in Venezeula. What is to prevent the United States from doing the same to Brazil or Ecaudor?"

The Chinese ambassador, having steered the discussion directly onto the major point, steps back into the shadows, awaiting the next round of diplomatic banter.

We will accept the Argentinian plan to withdraw from the Pan-American treaty that the Americans have proved is a sham. We urge other nations in the treaty to do the same if they value their freedom.

Colombia will not withdraw from the Pan-American Treaty. We rather enjoy tariff-free trade. Colombia is fully assuming control over Venezeuela this month, and hopes to have it back on its feet within the year and ready for an election.

Colombia will not withdraw from the Pan-American Treaty. We rather enjoy tariff-free trade. Colombia is fully assuming control over Venezeuela this month, and hopes to have it back on its feet within the year and ready for an election.


Enter the oppressors. And who will be allowed to run in the elections? American approved candidates. I won't say Colombian approved because your opinion matters nothing to America, can't you see they are using you because they don't want to lose any more troops? We will refuse to recognise a new Venezuelan government. Its hardly going to be a free election is it? I'm guessing no communists or socialists allowed, or if they are they will be suppressed and denied publicity, and also I imagine no candidates will be allowed from the last administration? Also the new government will doubtless be riddled by corruption, with America's backing the government will doubtless recieve limitless funding, much of which will probably be stolen by politicians without fear of losing their jobs under an American backed regime. This election is unlikely to represent the needs of the people of Venezuela who have already suffered enough. The blood of innocent Venezuelans is on the hands of both yourself and America.

We simply object to any alliance with a nation that would threaten the peace and security of the North America, as after all, as all nations, we have a responsibility to our people. To be blunt, we have the power to protect ourselves and will use it. But we have the power to defend our neighbors as well. We only ask that they be good neighbors.

Urey exclaims, "What, defending Venezuela, by killing a lot of Venezuelans, that makes alot of sence! And, corect me if I am wrong, I thought Germany agreed to pull its claim on Venezuela."

Urey exclaims, "What, defending Venezuela, by killing a lot of Venezuelans, that makes alot of sence! And, corect me if I am wrong, I thought Germany agreed to pull its claim on Venezuela."

As that was the second time in 20 years that Germany has tried to annex Venezuela, the US wasn't convinced of German sincerity. As far as deaths go, fewer Venezuelans have died than Americans so far (ooc more combat deaths, far fewer deaths to disease, about 12,000 total of Venezuela, which is less than the US total). Plenty of blood has been spilled, but it will save far more blood in the future.

Enter the oppressors. And who will be allowed to run in the elections? American approved candidates. I won't say Colombian approved because your opinion matters nothing to America, can't you see they are using you because they don't want to lose any more troops? We will refuse to recognise a new Venezuelan government. Its hardly going to be a free election is it? I'm guessing no communists or socialists allowed, or if they are they will be suppressed and denied publicity, and also I imagine no candidates will be allowed from the last administration? Also the new government will doubtless be riddled by corruption, with America's backing the government will doubtless recieve limitless funding, much of which will probably be stolen by politicians without fear of losing their jobs under an American backed regime. This election is unlikely to represent the needs of the people of Venezuela who have already suffered enough. The blood of innocent Venezuelans is on the hands of both yourself and America.

The Colombian delegation must apologize to Brazil, and reply, "We do not do things the way of Brazil. Venezeuala will have free elections and can choose whichever govenrment they wish, unlike the poor people of Brazil. And you? Your government leads its people to poverty in its rediculous foreign policy that can only serve to damage its economy and prestige. Brazil would be wise to watch its tongue."

Enter the oppressors. And who will be allowed to run in the elections? American approved candidates. I won't say Colombian approved because your opinion matters nothing to America, can't you see they are using you because they don't want to lose any more troops? We will refuse to recognise a new Venezuelan government. Its hardly going to be a free election is it? I'm guessing no communists or socialists allowed, or if they are they will be suppressed and denied publicity, and also I imagine no candidates will be allowed from the last administration? Also the new government will doubtless be riddled by corruption, with America's backing the government will doubtless recieve limitless funding, much of which will probably be stolen by politicians without fear of losing their jobs under an American backed regime. This election is unlikely to represent the needs of the people of Venezuela who have already suffered enough. The blood of innocent Venezuelans is on the hands of both yourself and America.

Would any blood have been shed if Venezuela had rejected the German offer of alliance? I think not. Has the US attacked Brazil or Bolivia because we disagree with you politics. No we have not.

Nor shall we, as long as your nations do not form military alliances with anyone outside of Latin America except for Britian or the US. Alliances with Russia or Germany will be considered a threat against the US and the peace and security of the Western Hemisphere.

We don't ask for much, just that you remain quiet and peaceful neighbors. Run your affairs as you wish, but don't become a threat.

ooc
forgot to change screen names, this is Galveston Bay however

Urey stands saying "Just as the Chinese ambasidor said, if you invade a Latin American nation, you will be sure to anger other Latin American nations. And I feel offended that with your comments make Bolivia seem like an offensive power. As I stated before, Bolivia is a peaceful nation and only wants peace." A disgusted Secratary Urey then leaves the Confrence without another word.

The Colombian delegation must apologize to Brazil, and reply, "We do not do things the way of Brazil. Venezeuala will have free elections and can choose whichever govenrment they wish, unlike the poor people of Brazil. And you? Your government leads its people to poverty in its rediculous foreign policy that can only serve to damage its economy and prestige. Brazil would be wise to watch its tongue."


For your notice, sirs, we are a democratically elected government, as you would have known if you had the slightest knowledge of our country. For your own information, the two largest things on our country's budget are education and healthcare. At least we provide for our people's most basic needs unlike your own which is only interested in the next way to lick America's toecaps at the expense of your own integrity. And our foreign policy? What foreign policy? Our foreign office is so underfunded we have to send Junior Ministers on vital assignments, and the reason we underfund this is because we believe that healthcare and education are more important. Our foreign policy is in fact very limited, we make no demands of other governments, if you noticed we didn't even demand America left Venezuela, we just refused to recognise their new government. We personally don't think we have any right or claim on another nations territory or to force government change. Nevertheless, believe what you want about us, but we ARE democratic.

And by the way, what does it mean that we should watch our tongue? You are in no position to dictate what we can or cannot say. Free speech is a tenet we hold dearly, obviously unlike yourselves. What exactly are you planning to do if we do not 'watch our tongue'? Hah, doubtless you will issue another useless tariff or declare war.

Argentina closes the conference, no longer seeing a point to further discussion on the matter. A conference on a later date is scheduled, for those who are willing to forgo the Pan-American Treaty in favor of a defensive treaty without undue American influence. "One", President Calderón can't resist quiping, "where the nations of the American Continents are treates as equals." Because of Brazil's strong response, Calderón suggests the next meeting to take place in Rio de Janero (sp?).

And our foreign policy? What foreign policy?

Oh, I forgot that Germany and Russia dictate your foreign policy for you. Grow a spine you filthy communist pigs. Colombia has a far better education and healthcare system; We created our vast network of hospitals and our three teir-education long before you learned the concept of even walking. Do not speak to use you mis-informed, uncouth, and virulent character.

ooc: Pure in character. Nothing Personal.

ooc
before we all get too excited....

Remember, the central fact of Latin American history. The ruling classes until fairly late in the 20th Century are the pure blood Spanish (or Portuguese)and mostly Spanish blooded Creoles. They own the land, the wealth, and they basically decided who was running things. In some countries they still do. They are far more likely to have warmly embraced fascism (and they did) than socialism as a quasi fascist philosophy much more easily justifies their continued rule.

The only way Socialism should have gotten even a foothold is in countries with substantial middle class populations, or substantial numbers of industrial workers. Only Argentina and Brazil historically had that, and to a lesser extent Mexico (which is a special case because of proximity to the US), and both Argentina and Brazil very brutally repressed their socialist and later communist movements (remember the Dirty War in Argentina for example?).

In this timeline we have an industralized Colombia, a partially industralized Argentina, Chile and Brazil. So I have been willing to overlook the fact that Socialism has arrived far too early in Brazil. I can even live with Bolivia having gone "red" because of its proximity to Brazil.

But there should be sizeable domestic opposition to Socialism in both countries.

In addition, for now America at the moment is viewed as a bully for conquering Venezuela. On the other hand, Germany was viewed as much as a bully for conquering Venezuela in 1905. Remember also, that the Pan American (in this timeline) Treaty calls for mutual defense and was created so that outsiders couldn't take over a Latin American country because it was behind in its debts. In fact, it called for the end of that practice all together.

So not all domestic opinion in Latin America is going to be anti American. A lot of people are going to remember that it was the US who brought that about.

OOC: No arguements there. As for fascism though: What's the number one thing a dictator fears? Anyone stronger. At the moment the US is #1 (and probubly will be for a long, long time), and Argentina's leaders (who want to be #1 at some point) are convinced that the US will be gunning for them at some point.

Yes, communism is worrying to a lot of the upper/middle class Argentinians. But distrust of the US is also high on the list. I'll reiterate it again, in case you missed it the first time: The leaders of Argentina are not going to go communist. But the US itself sided with Russia in WWII to knock out Germany, Italy and Japan, so economic policy isn't the "be all end all" of diplomacy that people seem to be treating it at the moment.

In this timeline we have an industralized Colombia, a partially industralized Argentina, Chile and Brazil. So I have been willing to overlook the fact that Socialism has arrived far too early in Brazil. I can even live with Bolivia having gone "red" because of its proximity to Brazil.

ooc: Um, do you mean "going red" and not "having gone red". Bolivia is democratic at this point.

ooc: Um, do you mean "going red" and not "having gone red". Bolivia is democratic at this point.
Hey, we're all democratic. Even Germany. Theoretically, even my own Socialists could be voted out of power anytime now. If they screw up the Drought bad enough, they probably will be very soon.
But, yeah, I think he was referring to potential rather than actual "Redness," and also to guilt by association.

Oh, I forgot that Germany and Russia dictate your foreign policy for you. Grow a spine you filthy communist pigs. Colombia has a far better education and healthcare system; We created our vast network of hospitals and our three teir-education long before you learned the concept of even walking. Do not speak to use you mis-informed, uncouth, and virulent character.

ooc: Pure in character. Nothing Personal.


OOC: Yeah I know man :)

IC:

Your healthcare is run by the rich for the rich! Our healthcare has been set up by British and French doctors and is run for the benefit of the masses rather than the priveledged. And they dicatate our foreign policy do they? May I remind you Brazil called for Germany's withdrawal from sending colonists to Venezuela? Hardly toeing the line there were we? Unlike yourseves! America's shadow is shaped like Colombia and has the same repugnant smell associated with that same nation. Anyway, that is all we have to say. We will leave the conference now. Apologies for getting unproffessional *drinks calming Brazilian coffee*, we will convene again doubtless. Until then we wish for peace to all on the continent, even to our Colombian friends. Goodbye sirs.

OOC: Goodness that was quite a verbal spar haha.

ooc: Yes quite entertaining. Oh, lol, btw, my healthcare is offered to all :P

Dear
Colombia

We need to create a defense line between Brazil and Venezuela. That seems to be the only theart in the area. Colombia and Ecuador need also to start a stable government or officially annex Venezuela for are countries.

From
Jose Luis Tamayo

It seems like that this Venezuela Crisis is turing into another war.