NationStates Jolt Archive

Invite Only

In order to protect eastern Europe from any outside threat whether Communist or Imperialist, Hungary and Romania have created the Eastern European Alliance, a collection of nations dedicated from protecting Eastern Europe from expansionist powers. The conference will be held in Budapest.

Bleh, more to come soon.

Ooc: alright, for the time being this is an invite-only conference, not even outside observers or reporters are allowed inside. If you have not been invited, TG me or abassia DO NOT post it here. If you are not invited consider all the procedings semi-secret.

Parliament deems it necessary to send a representative in response to the request for attendence. Dragen Tetevo will be our representative and diplomat at the meeting. We hope that economical as well as political and defense issues are brought up and solved, as this will greatly assist the signing nations.

OOC: Whenever you are ready to start, we will just say Mr. Dragen Tetevo has arrived and is in the meeting, for ease of roleplay.

Due to the lack of intrest, the leader of Quere, Khur, arrived with 5 guards. One behind, two on each side. He entered the room. "Hello."

Due to the lack of intrest, the leader of Quere, Khur, arrived with 5 guards. One behind, two on each side. He entered the room. "Hello."

ooc: 1st point. This is invite only. 2nd this for members of the Earth 1900-2000 RP. If you are not part of this RP, please do not post here.

Albania's Minister of Foreign Affairs, the honorable Kastriot Xhafa, arrives with his staff. He is eager to begin the confrence and submits a motion for an organized agenda.

The proposed agenda is as follows:

1. Issues concerning mutual security and foreign domination (Western European or Russian).

2. The need to hunt down terrorists and criminals in the Balkans.

3. Self-determination

4. Trade and mutual economic cooperation.

To the Members of the Eastern European Alliance,

I am affaird that I am not able to make it but I have sent my some; Prince George of Greece and Denmark. I hope that what my brother tells me will make me join this alliance to help save us from the outsiders.

King George I
King of the Hellenes

The Romanian delegate Victor Drakel bids welcome to both delegates and asks them to be patient while we await the other delegates.

bump

September 2, 1921 - Budapest, Hungary.

Prime Minister Aleksander Machelinev of Bulgaria will attend... The goals are the same as the others, but must take the regions' peaceful development in mind...

We are glad that all of you can attend (OoC:I have confirmation from GB that Czechoslovakia -NPC- will also be attending), and welcome all of our dear neighbors in this gathering amid these turbulant times. I wll humbly allow my Hungarian colleague start our meeting...

*motions to the hungarian delegate*

Count István Bethlen de Bethlen stood up.

"Gentleman, I am glad to see you have all made it safe and sound to the conference. This conference's purpose is to form a lasting relationship between our nations to prevent any future wars from damaging Eastern Europe. This would take the form of either a treaty or, what the Hungarian deligation prefers, a lasting alliance between our nations.


ooc: I'll try to post some more details tommorow about what I have in mind, but basically it would be like NATO, except less anti-communist.

OoC:I wonder where is Hungary?? oh well...

We propose that:

1-Current borders of all nations to be recognised and respected indefinantly.
2-Any territorial claims to be discussed in this conference and settled in the intrests of peace in our region.

ooc: sorry, I completely forgot about this thread.

IC:
The Hungarian Delegation submits these proposals for consideration:

1. The creation of a mediating council, hereby referred to as the Council, to vote on issues pertaining to signatories, to oversee and mediate any disputes between signatories and to overall help foster cooperation between all signatory nations.

2. All tariffs between the signatory nations will be gradually reduced and eventually completely abolished over the course of ten years after signing the treaty.

3. The permanent recognition of the current borders of the signatories and the creation of a council to deal with any future border disputes.

4. The abolishment of military forces and fortifications on the borders of fellow signatories.

5. The establishment of a military alliance requiring:
A. All signatories to come to each others aid if one or more fellow signatories are involved in an external conflict (not rebellions or a intra-signatory war) not of the signatories making. (i.e. if you start a war we are not required to help and vise versa, but if say the U.S. goes psychotic and attacks you, we would be required to assist you)
B. If conflict between signatory nations breaks other signatory nations are not allowed to participate or provide any sort of aid to either side unless the Council, excluding all participating nations, votes unanimously to provide aid, either military or otherwise, to one or all sides involved.
C. The establishment of semi-annual war games between signatory nations in order to foster cooperation between the respective militaries and to help improve them to a level in which they are capable of defending their own nations alone if need be.

6. The passing of laws to facilitate the extradition of wanted criminals, fugitives or other persons of interest from one nation to another, unless the signatory nation where in the person or persons of interest is currently living in has granted asylum or other forms of protection on them.

Kastriot Xhafa rises from his chair. "Albania cannot agree to a permanent recognition of current borders as the Albanian people living in the Yugoslavian Superstate have not been granted self-determination. The Albanian communities in Kosovo, Monte-Negro and Western Macedonia should be allowed to have a choice on joining the Albanian Republic. The Treaty of Washington, which Albania does not recognize, gave those territories no say in their future direction. They were gobbled up by which ever-power had armies in position. There can be no doubt that the Treaty of Washington was, for the Balkans and Central Europe, a historic mistake which needs to be corrected!"

After a brief pause, "And the suggestion that nations should agree to the 'abolishment of military forces and fortifications on the borders of fellow signatories', is just insane. Denmark was stormed in just two weeks! Are we supposed to leave ourselves defenseless to what ever tin pot aggressor decides to roll the dice?"

Viktor Drakel appeals for calm, "My dear Mr.Xhafa, we understand your concerns, both territorial and millitary. We are gathered here today to secure the rights of all for we are neighbors and if our neigborhood is to be the best we must work together. I await the Yugoslavian delegate to state his case and then we will attempt to solve this with the guidance of the most rational and civillised principles we are based on.

As for the goals for abolishing millitary forces and fortifications, I believe that this should be in a gradual fashion on a strict but reasonable schedule, I suggest also that this should not be entire aswell, as there are many other unoffecial groups (ie:terrorists and spies) that could cross these borders -like some remanents of the Albanian civil war or several Iron Guard operatives- but as the rest of us (other than Albania that is) had fought side by side in probably history's greatest conflict, I believe that major steps can be undertaken in this field, while rendering Albania as a special clause if they fear any consequences. after you have seen the benefits of reducing millitary costs to one's economy you might be willing then to consider this, but it would be most welcome if we were able in some way to assure you of our goodwill perhaps??"

Czechoslovakian President Bratsko shall attend, though Czechoslovakia has nothing against the Russians, and intends to follow a path of moderate socialism.

Kastriot Xhafa rises from his chair. "Albania cannot agree to a permanent recognition of current borders as the Albanian people living in the Yugoslavian Superstate have not been granted self-determination. The Albanian communities in Kosovo, Monte-Negro and Western Macedonia should be allowed to have a choice on joining the Albanian Republic. The Treaty of Washington, which Albania does not recognize, gave those territories no say in their future direction. They were gobbled up by which ever-power had armies in position. There can be no doubt that the Treaty of Washington was, for the Balkans and Central Europe, a historic mistake which needs to be corrected!"

After a brief pause, "And the suggestion that nations should agree to the 'abolishment of military forces and fortifications on the borders of fellow signatories', is just insane. Denmark was stormed in just two weeks! Are we supposed to leave ourselves defenseless to what ever tin pot aggressor decides to roll the dice?"

"I do not mean to suggest that the forces and fortifications should be abolished on all borders, mearly those shared with other nations who have signed the treaty as well, and who would have also rid themselves of the same troops and fortifications."

ooc; will add more later

"I do not believe you are all aware of Albania's man-power situation. Our country has slightly more then 900,000 people, and a Self Defense Army of a mere 15,000. Fortifications are neccessary or other wise we are perpetually at risk of being over-run by gun-toting neighbors... Currently we have good relations with surrounding countries, but that could quickly change, after all Yugoslavia did not exist at the start of this century..."

Kastriot Xhafa pauses briefly. "Concerning the current borders of the Balkans, I believe we have to concentrate here on reaching a rational, stable, civil agreement; which will help make the world safe for science, democracy and progress. The province of Kosovo must be allowed self-determination by a fair and free vote. The same is true for other Albanian communities. They were forced into the Yugoslavian Federation without any say..."

"I'm afraid the situation in the area in Kosovo is becoming alarming, while we recognise both Albanian and Yugoslavian views on the matter, we request both to keep a level head in this situation. To the Yugoslavia we with most respect ask to discipline security forces and seek to prevent human right abuses against civillians. To Albania we ask also with most respect to ask any Albanian insurgents to cease hostile activities.

We understand that you may argue the reliabillity of each other in doing this, so we propose the creation of a peace keeping security division which will be strictly watched and regulated by the council containing elements from all member states except Albania and Yugoslavia. This division will keep the peace in the region and at the same time maintain discipline while keeping the peace while the matter is resolved by the sensible men among us."

Czechoslovakia fully and unconditionally supports its fellow Slavs in Yugoslavia. Should conflict break out over the Kosovo issue, we promise to aid our brothers both directly and indirectly in their struggle against the expansion of Islamic militancy. Metohija (Kosovo is merely the Albanian name given to this ancient Serb land) is Serbian and will remain Serbian, regardless of how much Moslems immigrate into it.

"It was the Yugoslavians who fired the first shots, attacking peaceful demonstrators. The Yugoslavian government has violated it's own charter and is at this moment practicing mass murder against those it claims to be it's citizens. The Albanian insurgents are simply fighting in self defense. At this moment Albania faces a massive humanitarian catastrophe. The Yugoslavian delegate does not even bother to defend his states actions", Kastriot Xhafa rages.

"We will support a peace-keeping force to move in and restore order to the region. Czechoslovakia should also have no part in it however, as they support Serbia."

We have stated our position. Metohija is Serbian land. Attempts to change its status shall lead to a Czechsolovakian intervention on the side of Serbia.

If Albania wishes, we will however be willing to donate food and other supplies to the innocent refugees fleeing from the problem created by illegal Albanian armed formations.

"The current conflict was caused by armed Serbian thugs attacking peaceful demonstrators who were advocating peaceful change. The people of Kosovo took up arms in self-defense, without the urging of the Albanian Republic."

OOC: Thats all true by the way. There was no armed resistence or conflict until the Yugoslavian government declared martial law, sending troops to destroy border communities and failing to stop Serbian terrorists from attacking Albanian demonstrators. The Albanian government encouraged peaceful change and is not responsible for the violence. Check the Yugoslavian thread. Link here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440871&page=4&pp=15

OOC: Sorry i totally forgot about this whole thread

IC: "Yugoslavia would like to agree with all of the Austrian suggestions except for the forts and military units being withdrawn from each others borders. Considering that an event such as an invasion could push back to say, the Northern Yugoslavian border all the way through Hungery, it would leave Yugoslavia very vulnerable not to have some kind of defensive line. So i suggest that international defensive works be contructed on the borders of each others border, and national defense works on our borders with extra borders."

"In response to the Albanian crys for a Greater Albania. We would like to dismiss the Albanian propaganda. No shots were fired at any demonstrators, and the only loses of life of civilians for the most part have been during a border skirmish, which was started by the Albanian military and shouldn't be held-accountable against us. Also, villages have not been burned down because they are Albanian, but because they have been used as bases for the terrorists and gurrilla fighters. Albania has been twisting the truth this entire time, and as such is merely making things worse for their people. With over 100000 Albanians returning to their parent country that should be a boost to Albania's manpower pool."

"As for a vote on a transfer of land, we see no reason, as the lands have been fairly entered into the Confederation already by vote, just because certain parts of the member states have more Albanians than others is not ground for a change of owner ship. That is like demanding South Boston being changed from American control to Irish, such things are ludicris to think about and should be dismissed without further talk."

"You deny that the violence was started by Serbs? Also the Albanian border guard is made up of civil police, it is not part of the Albanian military. And it was the Yugslavian military which fired the first shots, not our border patrol. The Yugoslavian government has been secretly deporting Albanians for years. The 88,000 people displaced by the fighting must be allowed to return and should be compensated for their destroyed property. The Yugoslavian police must also stop the illegal deportations and protect the Albanian minority!"

(throwing a dictionary to the Czechsolovakian delegate) "Kosovo is a Serbian name you idiot! Albanians call it Kosova! Kosovo is recognized however as the current offical name..."

OOC: I don't think anyone knows who fired first in the border skirmish as GB never said who, so both sides are pointing fingers.

OOC: He said that the Albanian's got jumpy and fired the first shots, but i will give you the benefit of the doubt.

IC: "Yugoslavia has not illegally deported anyone, all of it was for legal reasons, most prominate of which was treason and plots against the state. Albanians in Yugoslavia at this time will be helped, but no Albanians that left the country or helped the rebels will be allowed back into the country, also they will not recieve any money from the Yugoslavian nation, as they have forsaken their allegiance to it, and fled to Albania."

(OOC: Who cares what really happened! Real nations use propaganda all the time, just look at Iraqs WMD arsenal.... so please stop the annoying arguements over what really happened OOCly...)
IC: Why should anyone, least of all the Yugoslavians, care about how the Albanians call ancient Serbian land?

"They fled because of violence and the inablity of the Yugoslavian State to protect them... Or because of the willingness of the Yugoslavian State to use the chaos as an excuse to de-Albanianinize the province. We understand that KLA fighters will and should not be let back in. But all displaced persons must be allowed to return and be compensated!"

He turns to the Czechsolovakian delegate. "You were making a fool of your-self."

"We will compromise and take it on a case by case basis, people that could be anti-government will not be let back in. People that were not serving a purpose in the society will also not be let back in."

"Agreed, though that will take awhile... What do you mean by anti-government?"

"Anti-governmental would be people that would be found to be harmful to the state, such as a 23 year old male that was for a Greater Albania. That man would be better left outside the Federated states. People that were unemployed and were being a drain on the local government would also be denied recitizenship."

"What if that person was for the peaceful transfer of Kosovo to Albania (OOC: that would be about everyone)? Also what do you mean by unemployed?"

OOC: Kosovo has a agricultural rural economy in most areas. The more modern definition of unemployment would apply less then in an industrial economy.

(ooc: unemployed is not the same thing as self-employed IE: farming, unemployed would be a bum on the street, the reason this is being included is A) they would join a terrorist group for the money and B) they wouldn't serve the state any good anyway.)

IC: People that wanted a peaceful transfer but were not vocal about it will not be discriminated against. Vocal members of a Greater Albanian party will not be welcomed back as that is against the morals of the Confederation to allow people to break away from the mother nation based on their Ethnicity"

"The Greater Albania Party is a party within Albania itself which has seats in Parliament. Offically it has no members outside of Albania, non-citizens cannot be members of Albanian parties. We are refering to members of the National Socialist Albanian Workers Party. And I would remind you that there are protestors in Kosovo at this moment, so excluding vocal members means the Confederation intends to restrict free speech in the future?"

OOC: I wasn't inferring that it is "a Greater Albanian party" nor was aware of "The Greater Albania Party" Sorry for the confusion but i was referring to any party that was pro-greater albania.

IC: Free speech is something that is very elastic, though, we are not ready to accept people that want to fragment the Federation. Until the crisis is over and tensions have ceased, such free speech as spouting Fragmentation propaganda is equal to yelling "fire!" in a densely packed theater, and is punishable by arrest.

"What insurances can you give that the Kosovo police will protect it's Albanian citizens? Would Yugoslavia be opposed to amending it's Articles of Confederation so as to give the local government in Kosovo more self-rule? Doing so would satisfy the majority of the provinces population."

"The Federation is made up of Croats, Serbs, Macedonians, Slovenes, Albanians, and Romas....and you want us to give special rights to one of those just because they rebelled? We will treat them no different than any of our other citizens as long as they act no different. If they want to stay in Yugoslavia they should act like it, instead of trying to break away because of their ethnicity."

"I will remind you that the only reason Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia is that they were never given a choice whether they wanted to be part of Yugoslavia, be independent or join Albania. Your government took them over after the Great War without their consent! And don't give me any of that 'if they don't like it here then move to Albania'; those people lived in Kosovo before Yugoslavia existed!"

"Might i remind YOU that the only reason there are any Albanians there in the first place is because they took that land from Slavs, and i KNOW they didn't ask them for that land! Those people lived there before Albania even existed too, so why should they go to Albania? Because you want to gain more land for your selfish reasons? I dare say not, as long as a Slav draws breath, that we will give up our ancestral lands for some grand idea of 'A Greater Albania'!"

"A Greater Albania movement is what you will continue to get unless you deal with US! We, by which I mean the current government, are the moderates. If you do not give some self-rule to Kosovo and allow the majority of the people to return, the Progressive Party and it's ally the Greater Albania party will most likely win in the next election. They are a bunch of ultra-nationalist criminal thugs! Do you really want to deal with that! Your claims to ancestral lands is equal to the present Zionist claim to the West Bank or a Mexican claim to California. Albanians live there NOW, and the question was never one of land, that is an issue of property. The issue is that the body politic of Kosovo was never given a say in whether they wanted to be part of Yugoslavia. If a vote was held today, even with 20% of the Albanian population gone, over 60% of the overall population would vote to leave Yugoslavia! And presently the Albanian government is asking you to accept that reality and give them, in exchange for being part of a State which they despise, some self-rule. England is doing the same with Ireland and France with Vietnam. Kosovo is no different..."

Russia was, of course, deliberately not invited to this Conference, but I thought I'd post a link to this message (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9722411&postcount=80) here, since it seems to be where most of the argument is happening.

The Romanian Delegate appeals for order and warns the Albanian delegate about throwing anymore objects at any one then begins:

"No doubt you have heard the Russian statement which I believe accurately describes the situation, However we stick to our original proposal on creating a peace korps consisting of elements from the members of the conference other than those involved (Yugoslavia and Albania) and those that are objected to (Czechoslovakia) we have the Albanian approval and we await the Yugoslavian response as they may want to negotiate this. However I remain hopeful for a swift end of hostillities."

"What is to be the powers of this 'peace korps'?"

To prevent ethnic clashes we are trying to keep other Balkan nations which have populations of Albanians and Serbs out of the area, so we have decided in favor of Russian and French peacekeepers. I hope you see the point i am trying to show, and do not take this as me dismissing your attempt at peace.

We understand and offer our assistance -as Romania- in the form of economic and social aid to the region (Some government funds and some social workers(teachers, doctors and others)) and hope for the swift passing of these turbulant times over your country.

As the Albanian terrorists are targeting civilians, we cannot promise the security of your offered persons, though as soon as they are destroyed we would love to facilitate them in anyway possible.

Minister of Foreign Affairs Kastriot Xhafa is withdrawn from the Conference to take part in the talks on Kosovo. Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Filip Mjeda will be taking his place.

The Hungarian delegate stood to address the members. "The opinion of the Hungarian Government is that it will never be known who is responsible for the initial attacks, and as Russia stated, that Kosovo was a part of Serbia before joining Yugoslavia and therefore joined willingly. And, as the Russian Government stated so clearly in its statement, both Albanians and other groups have lived on in Kosovo for centuries. Any arguments regarding this point are therefore useless. Unless both nations wish to discuss, minor changes border changes or concerns, which was the intent of this delegation on bring up the point, I suggest we move on. Does anyone have any other problems or questions concerning the Hungarian proposed document? The concerns with the border disarmament is noted and will be taken into account when a final draft is created."