NationStates Jolt Archive


L-82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighter Takes to the Skies!

Praetonia
11-09-2005, 20:32
L-82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighter

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Praetonia/HussarSF2.png

History

Until now, Praetonia has not had any ambition to design an indigenous Strike Fighter with which to equip her armed forces, instead purchasing foreign designs, notably those of Sarzonia and produced by the Avalon Aerospace Corporation. Concern had been growing, however, as to the suitability of these aircraft should they be forced to come up against next generation air superiority fighters of potential rivals. These concerns were brought to a head when squadrons of Sarzonian fighters were wiped out wholesale to no lose by Doomingslandi fighters in the Inkanan Civil War. Although other factors were most likely at work, the aircraft must have been a factor and so a Parliamentary Commission was set up to decide upon the future of the Imperial Flying Corps's aircraft. Several options were considered, including choosing a new foreign aircraft (possibly a new Sarzonian model). In the end, however, it was decided to commission the construction of a Praetonian fighter and the Hussar was born.

Design Characteristics and Manoeuvrability

In keeping with the need to provide a highly advanced and versatile craft, the Hussar is a switchblade aircraft. This allows the aircraft to sweep its wings back, keeping them extended outwards increasing the leading edge and therefore drag, slowing down the aircraft for precision bombing and low-flying.

If it becomes necessary for the pilot to engage with enemy fighters, he need only switch the wings to a forward-swept position and the aircraft will become highly manoeuvrable. With wings forward-swept an aircraft enters a highly unstable state which is perfect for fast and complex manoeuvres. The aircraft itself is kept stable by complex computer adjustments to the canards and other control surfaces - a feat which is not possible with a human pilot assuming total control.

Should it then become necessary for the aircraft to vacate the area at high speed, then the pilot will bring the wings into a fully forward swept position. The wings will then have formed a perfect Delta configuration, enabling the aircraft to travel at extremely high speeds with none of the instability of the forward-swept position.

The actual implementation of this is, however, somewhat different. Instead of three absolute positions, the aircraft's computer is constantly adjusting the state of the wings to assume the optimum position for the plane's mode of flight at any particular time. When flying in formation, Hussars equipped with HCI (Hussar Computer Integration) will attempt to assume similar wing positions. The Hussar, due to its wing form, can achieve a very low minimum speed, a very high maximum speed and very high levels of manoeuvrability depending on the tactical need.

Propulsion

A major factor in the design of the Hussar was that of making the craft fast enough and manoeuvrable enough to compete with foreign aircraft. The decision was made not to install expensive and inefficient pulse detonation engines, going instead with two Ultra Heavy Duty Turbofans with afterburners, each developing 45,000lbs of thrust for a total of 90,000lbs. Both engines have full 3D thrust vectoring capability allowing all variants of the craft to perform both complex aerobatic manoeuvres and to operate as VTOL craft where absolutely necessary. It should be noted, however, that this is somewhat inefficient.

The engines can achieve a maximum speed of Mach 3.0 at altitude when deployed into a delta wing pattern and a minimum speed of 120mph when the wings are swept fully back so that they are perpendicular to the fuselage. The aeroplane can attain a supercruise of Mach 2.3 when deployed into a delta, although the general cruise speed is usually kept down to 1.7 for the sake of fuel efficiency. Both engines are equipped with integrated automatic fire suppression equipment, and the aircraft is able to remain in the air with only one functional engine.

Armament
The Hussar is equipped with a variety of gun and missile armaments, and is also capable of carrying anti-ship missiles, bombs, cluster munitions, chemical and biological weapons’ dispersal equipment, nuclear weapons, anti-radiation missiles and stand-off anti tank weapons. The aircraft is designed to be able to be equipped to take on almost any foe in the air or on the ground.

35mm ETC Chaincannon

The gun armament of the Hussar consists of a single 35mm ETC Chaincannon. The weapon can fire HE or APFSDS rounds at a rate of 1,800rpm at velocities and accuracy far in excess of that of conventional weapons of a similar type. The weapon is linked to the plane’s main computer, allowing the computer to make small adjustments to the plane’s speed and position in order to get a better aim on a pilot-specified target.

The cannon is designed primarily for use in aerial dog-fighting, but it can also be used in strafing attacks against enemy infantry, buildings, artillery and armoured vehicles. The plane carries a total of 800 rounds which reach the gun by means of a duel feed system. This allows the plane to carry and quickly switch between two different types of ammunition, and allows the gun to continue firing despite jams in some parts of the gun.

Asteroid Extra Long Range Air-to-Air Missile
4 dedicated internal bay slots

The Asteroid ELRAAM missile was designed specifically for use with the Hussar, replacing ageing Praetonian missiles. The weapon is equipped with a RAMjet, enabling it to reach mach 6 at standard aerial combat altitudes. The weapon is primarily guided by a radar feed from the firing plane, but terminal guidance is provided by an high-resolution IR imager. The missile is, therefore, impossible to detect at any considerable range, and is extremely hard to spoof.

As a Long Range Air-to-Air Missile, the weapon has an approximate range of 105 nautical miles at standard aerial combat altitudes. The Hussar can carry 4 such missiles in its internal bays alongside other weapons, a further four in the place of the 8 Short Range Air-to-Air Missiles and a further 2 in place of ordnance on the two wing light strike pylons. Each missile costs $650,000.

Comet Short Range Air-to-Air Missile
8 dedicated internal bay slots

The Comet SRAAM missile was specifically designed for use with the Hussar Strike Fighter. Like its sister missile the Asteroid, the SRAAM is also equipped with a RAMjet, although the speed is toned down to a mere mach 4 – still enough to outpace any aircraft at combat altitudes. The missile is guided primarily by the high resolution IR imager, but at longer ranges this is used as terminal guidance and primary guidance is provided by radar feed.

As a short range missile, the weapon has an approximate range of 20 nautical miles at standard aerial combat altitudes. The Hussar can carry 8 such missiles in dedicated bay slots, a further 8 missiles in place of the Asteroid LRAAMs and a further 4 missiles in place of strike ordnance on the wing light strike pylons. Each missile costs $350,000.

Light Strike Ordnance
4 dedicated wing pylons

4 pylons on the planes’ wings are set aside for light strike ordnance. These can carry 250lbs bombs, light AShMs such as the Praetonian Tiger, cluster munitions or stand off ATGMs. These pylons can also be used to carry additional external fuel tanks or can be left unused to improve stealth. These are designed mainly for carrying light ordnance not worth a full strike pylon, but which either cannot or is not carried in the internal bays.

Strike Ordnance
2 dedicated wing pylons

The Hussar is equipped with two external wing pylons design specifically to carry heavy ordnance such as large bombs (1,000 – 2,000lbs), fuel air bombs and anti-ship missiles such as the Praetonian Lance. These provide the primary strike capability of the Hussar. The pylons can be left empty to improve stealth, or can be used to carry numerous anti-air missiles or light strike ordnance.

Defences and Armour

The Hussar’s armour is designed to be lightweight and protect mainly against shell splinters and shrapnel, although some special protection is given to the engine, ordnance bays and pilot. The primary armour is the skin of the aircraft itself. The aircraft is built on a strong honeycombed titanium frame, which is overlaid with a layer of Kevlar to protect against small arms and small splinters.

The cockpit, ordnance bays (including the cannon) and engine are encased in redundant titanium shells, designed to stop any (already slowed and blunted) cannon rounds or splinters which penetrate the outer armour from entering vital areas of the aircraft and damaging vital systems, or killing the pilot.

As well as ‘hard’ defences, the aircraft is also equipped with soft defences. The Comet SRAAM can be used as an anti-missile missile, although this is not terribly efficient and is only used as a last resort. The aircraft is equipped with next generation flares designed to present a very similar IR signature to the aircraft itself, giving the flares a much greater chance of fooling the latest high resolution thermal imagers. The aircraft is also equipped with chaff.

Exhaust from the engine is piped along the inside of the aircraft and expelled at several points around the bodywork, presenting “hot spots” of IR to attempt to confuse a heat seeking missile, or at least to draw it away from the engine resulting in damage that is not as likely to be fatal. Both these openings and the engine itself are equipped with flash suppressors and IR filters to try to reduce the IR signature of the aircraft.

The fuel tanks (external and internal) are self sealing and fuel injection to either engine can be disengaged to attempt to stem the spread of a fire that has broken out. The pilot is equipped with an ejector seat, which will come into effect automatically if the pilot passes out, rendering him a greater chance of survival.

The aircraft’s control surfaces are controlled by fibre optics (‘fly-by-light”) meaning that damage from EMP blasts will have less of an effect, and will not spread between systems so easily. The central computer is shielded to an extent, and is designed to be able to survive EMP provided the aircraft is a reasonable distance from the blast at least enough to return to its airfield / carrier, or to attempt an emergency landing on a grass field or suitably sized roadway.

Electronics and Systems

Active Radar Cancellation Neutralisation Initiative (ARCaNI)

ARCaNI was developed as an answer to aircraft equipped with Active Radar Cancellation. The system works using HCI (Hussar Computer Integration) and links all Hussar radar systems together. The system then instructs all Hussar radars to cycle radar frequency and intensity. Using one radar, a strobe effect will emerge due to the lag between the radar cycle and the ARC equipped plane adapting, but using more than one radar the ARC equipped aircraft will only be able to adapt to one frequency at once, and so when the Hussars share their radar data the enemy will be unable to hide. ARCaNI is highly classified.

Hussar Computer Integration (HCI)

Hussar Computer Integration allows all Hussars within a certain range to share radar, meteorological, navigation and targeting data amongst themselves and provides each plane with different tasks to optimise performance. This means that a reasonably sized group of Hussars can track and target a practically limitless number of enemy aircraft, and even allow planes whose radar or other systems have been disabled to continue to function at 100% effectiveness. HCI also allows the Hussar or Hussars to share data with fleets, ground stations, AWACs planes and early warning helicopters.

Hussar Advanced Radar - Phased (HARP)

Each individual HARP array is capable of tracking 25 targets at any one time, although using HCI this number can be made almost limitless. The system has a maximum range of approximately 375km at altitude in most weather conditions and in all directions. Radar data feeds directly into the aircraft’s weapon systems and HUD, allowing the pilot view the positions, relative velocities and target lock status of targets overlaid upon his visual cockpit view. The radar is capable of identifying targets from a pre-set database at 120km distant. The radar is capable of identifying head on missile threats to allow the computer, at the pilot’s command, to engage with the cannon.

Hussar Advanced Computer (HAC)

Each Hussar receives a mass of data from the pilot and its sensors which must all be processed and a lot of which must be passed on to other Hussars and Praetonian assets. Each Hussar is equipped with a computer capable of operating at 25ghz and supplemented by 5gb of memory. The system is capable of collating and processing all the data required to keep the aircraft in the air and fighting.

General Specifications

Name: L-82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighter
Manufacturer: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance – Aviation
Maximum Speed: Mach 3.2 at combat altitude
Minimum Speed: 120kph
Armour / Construction: 12mm Kevlar, 10mm titanium honeycomb.
Armament: 1x 35mm nose mounted L35A5 ETC Chaincannon
4 ELRAAM bay slots
8 SRAAM bay slots
Total Bay: 1,750kg
4 Light Strike Pylons
2 Strike Pylons
Total Pylons: 6,000kg
Operational Radius: 1,200km
Loaded Weight: 29,573kg

Build Cost: $122,000,000
Purchase Cost: $150,000,000

Production Rights Cost: $15,000,000,000 + $4,000,000 / plane.

[OOC: Any constructive criticism is very welcome because I’ve never designed a plane before. Some quick notes:

1) Yes, that radar dome thing is just there to look cool.

2) This will only be sold to allies at the prices stated above but you can negotiate this if you really want.]
Space Union
11-09-2005, 20:35
Darn you Praetonia! I was going to make a strike fighter for myself, but this is too sexy to miss up. So I'll buy it.

Can I buy production rights to this baby? I'll pay extra of course. And this is great as I'm going up against Doomingsland. Let's see if I do any better against Doom than Sarzonia.
DMG
11-09-2005, 20:38
Are the production rights for own build only or for sale build?
Praetonia
11-09-2005, 20:44
[OOC: Self-build. You can purchase a sales licence if you really want but it probably isn't worth it because I would price it such that I would undercut you.]

Space Union - Thanks =). As said in the post prod rights = $15,000,000,000 + $4,000,000 / plane. Now, this may sound bad and, if you want fewer than 650 planes it is, but if you want more than 650 planes (and I assume you do) it's cheaper than buying them from me, and you get to employ people in your factories as well, and you dont have to buy spare parts from me.

Now, compared to Doom's fighter, the Hussar is slower, and it lacks Direct Neural Interface and Active Radar Cancellation. However, the extra speed available to Doom's fighter is too fast to be used in a dogfight, and it cant outrun my missiles in any case so it's not really that useful. In addition, his fighter has more complex engines that are more expensive and harder to maintain. The Hussar can defeat ARC in groups so that's not really important. The Hussar has a marginally better radar, but not by much. As for DNI... well I just dont like it. If you use DNI and want to add it then you can though. Those are the major differences, so you're in with a fighting chance, especially if you outnumber him which you should be able to with these. If Soviet Bloc reads this thread then he might like to add to this stuff...
DMG
11-09-2005, 20:46
OOC: well tell me how much the sales license is then...
Praetonia
11-09-2005, 20:48
OOC: well tell me how much the sales license is then...
OOC: Well why do you want to be able to sell it...
DMG
11-09-2005, 20:51
OOC: Well why do you want to be able to sell it...

ooc: I have a major storefront that is interested in selling it...
Praetonia
11-09-2005, 20:58
ooc: I have a major storefront that is interested in selling it...
OOC: Well so do I :S If you really want to buy a sales licence then ok, but you'd have to clear every sale with me first and you'd have to sell them for more cash than me... I dont really see the point...
DMG
11-09-2005, 21:02
ooc: ok... just tell me how it is and I will decide...
Space Union
11-09-2005, 21:05
Okay thanks for the advice Praetonia. If you allow I can put in a system in my planes that will allow me to do one up against the DNI (I don't like that either. After I put it on the F-76 it just so unproven that I don't even want to use it). Also thanks for all the advice. Hopefully I can use it to the best to beat him or I'll face my nation being conquered ;)

Also your equation puts that production rights are always more cheaper than buying directly from you. For example: If I was to buy 650 aircrafts from you it would cost me $97.5 billion. But if I bought production rights it would cost a little over $23 million. I think you need to rework that.

Also I'll be ordering 11,250 of your awesome aircrafts. When you fix the formula I'll get the price.

Thanks :)
Praetonia
11-09-2005, 21:14
Okay thanks for the advice Praetonia. If you allow I can put in a system in my planes that will allow me to do one up against the DNI (I don't like that either. After I put it on the F-76 it just so unproven that I don't even want to use it). Also thanks for all the advice. Hopefully I can use it to the best to beat him or I'll face my nation being conquered ;)
Yeah that's fine.

Also your equation puts that production rights are always more cheaper than buying directly from you. For example: If I was to buy 650 aircrafts from you it would cost me $97.5 billion. But if I bought production rights it would cost a little over $23 million. I think you need to rework that.
No. Prod rights would cost $15bn for the right to build the aircraft + 2.6bn in royalties + $72.8bn in production costs. A grand total of $90.4bn, so it is in fact just cheaper.

The difference is in profit. If I were to make them, I would make 18.2bn profit. If you make them then I make $2.6bn. The difference is that I dont have to build any factories, employ admin etc etc if you make them, nor do I have to pay resource suppliers and transports or pay for moving bits around the country, so in terms of overall profit (since I dont have any aircraft factories right now), Im better off, especially as many of the costs included in "production costs" are buying Praetonian built equipment such as radar.

Also I'll be ordering 11,250 of your awesome aircrafts. When you fix the formula I'll get the price.

Thanks :)
Confirmed.
DMG
11-09-2005, 21:17
ooc: ok... just tell me how it is and I will decide...

well...?
Praetonia
11-09-2005, 21:21
well...?
Oh sorry.

Well... the right to build the fighters for export would cost $20bn + $45,000,000 royalties / plane, which means that I can sell them for $150,000,000 and make a $28,000,000 profit, you would have to sell them at $195,000,000 to make the same profit. You would also have to clear any order with me, so it's ultimately pointless.
Space Union
11-09-2005, 21:26
Yeah that's fine.


No. Prod rights would cost $15bn for the right to build the aircraft + 2.6bn in royalties + $72.8bn in production costs. A grand total of $90.4bn, so it is in fact just cheaper.

The difference is in profit. If I were to make them, I would make 18.2bn profit. If you make them then I make $2.6bn. The difference is that I dont have to build any factories, employ admin etc etc if you make them, nor do I have to pay resource suppliers and transports or pay for moving bits around the country, so in terms of overall profit (since I dont have any aircraft factories right now), Im better off, especially as many of the costs included in "production costs" are buying Praetonian built equipment such as radar.


Confirmed.

Okay, but how did you figure out the production costs? I multiplied 650 by $122 million but got $79.3 billion. Also you might want to change that division sign to multiplication sign. That would make everything clearer ;) And thanks for the aircrafts a bunch. :)
Doomingsland
11-09-2005, 21:30
OOC:VERY nice, Prae. Great job! Although the radar on my current version of the F-78 is, in fact, better than this one's...
Praetonia
11-09-2005, 21:45
It is? Damn, I shall have to provide an upgrade at some point in the future, seeing as I do have a stupidly large radar array on this thing. I was going off the original F-78 Sokol for the comparison. Anyway, thanks muchly for the compliment.

Okay, but how did you figure out the production costs? I multiplied 650 by $122 million but got $79.3 billion. Also you might want to change that division sign to multiplication sign. That would make everything clearer ;) And thanks for the aircrafts a bunch. :)
It probably is $79.3bn. I was using MS Calculator which seems to give me rather inaccurate results, usually because it doesnt always do what you want it to when you click on things :S. That "/ plane" was meant to be per plane, not divided by number of planes.
Sarzonia
12-09-2005, 15:41
To: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance
From: Bill Lighton
Air Force Chief, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
Subject: Production rights request

The Incorporated Sarzonian Air Force is highly impressed with the L-82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighter and, after discussing the matter with Major General Stephen Wilcox of the Avalon Aerospace Corporation, I would like to place an order for a limited domestic production rights contract to produce the L-82 Hussar for the ISAF. Such contract would last for a period of 15 NS years (15 RL days) or until a suitable advanced strike fighter can be produced by the AAC, whichever comes later.

We believe this aircraft would go a long way toward addressing some of the chief problems encountered by our fighter aircraft in the Inkana war. We hope to hear from you soon regarding our proposed acquisition. Also, I have been asked to notify you that we have announced that products from three nations have received 'automatic exemption' status from the Domestic Defence Appropriations Act. We are honoured to inform you that Praetonian products are included among those products that have received this distinction.

[OOC: Basically, the exemption gives me a chance to order your stuff, Isselmere's or Soviet Bloc's without having to secure an exemption from Parliament.]
Truitt
12-09-2005, 15:48
OOC:
Very nice Prae., I like how you threw in an ETC chaingun, very creative. Too bad I already have a strike fighter, other wise I might be prone to buy a few hundred...
Skinny87
12-09-2005, 15:51
To: Prartonian Ministry of Defense
From: Grand Republican Purchasing Department, Department of Defense
RE: Hussar Order

The Grand Republican Airforce wishes to purchase 100 of these fine new aircraft for the RAF, as well as purchase the production rights to the aircraft. The sum of $15.4 Billion USD has been wired and deposited into the usual account.

Also, as our 500th purchasing department, you also qualify for todays fabulous free gift! Enquiries to the usual department to send for the free gift.
Soviet Bloc
13-09-2005, 04:59
OOC- I have to say, very nice Prae, very nice. You've been able to about evenly match the F-78 Sokol air superiority fighter with a strike fighter. Impressive. The F-78 was never designed to carry any ground attack munitions and has never for the Air Force of the Armed Republic. It was a completely dedicated air superiority fighter slowly being phased from service, replaced by the later F-78K Strakhen Sokol Block 20/22 and the F-67 Strakhen Sokol Dva [a whole new, 'conceptual-until-now' aircraft].


The F-78 was an expensive, elaborate air frame, using its agility and structural integrity coupled with its hideously huge engines [Dat' Pizdy trademark, have always been oversized] to usually outperform most comparable airframes and hopefully dodge any armament it faced. Its electronics were, for the most part, unparalleled. However, it all has a downside. It was a very complex machine, I took the time to make sure it could outperform most adversaries to hopefully avoid damage, but as soon as it was damaged in any critical area, the bird was effectively lost [although I have plenty of crew safety features to ensure the crew's survival]. The engines were gigantic, and always have been on DPAC airframes, and were unusually complex, but they provided the immense thrust to lift the heavy airframes that have lived through DPAC.

For us, the complexity is no real problem, we've focused heavily on getting a massive logistical and supply entity to back up whatever the hell we produce or do. In fact, comparing the F-78 to its predecessors [especially the F-57], the F-78 is immensely easier to maintain, but IRL, its about the equivalent of what a fusion reactor would be. Our logistical corps is incredibly well trained. The smaller nations who purchase from us most likely can't maintain the F-78 as well as we could, which means they'd have more frequent break downs, lower efficiency, fewer flight hours, and greater fatalities. To use the F-78 you have to have a logistical entity like no other. Its a high-performance, high-maintenance aircraft that demands all the attention it can get when its not in the air, but when its in the air its truly unmatched [or was... Now that's passed to the F-67]. However, the F-78 was never designed to face an evenly matched competitor . With the L-82 its found a true competitor, and its flaws will become apparant. Doom, no matter how you play it, if this thing gets near you and fires, the F-78 is gonna go down, unless you fire first, which may not happen. No radar package in the world is going to save you [well, within reason], because the F-78's biggest assets have been lost against the L-82 and that it is its performance edge, previously a great canyonesque disparity but now merely a crack in the pavement.


As for the comments on the radar package. The L-82 evenly matches the F-78, which is quite a feat assuming the L-82 is smaller [which it appears to be, judging from both the picture and what I can imagine from the specs although you do not mention anything about physical size] because the F-78, following with DPAC tradition, is really, a big-ass airframe. We're not afraid to make our aircraft big, screw radar transparency or small stature, if it isn't big and not coupled with 80,000lb thrust/engine powerplants, then it isn't fit to fly. We can fit a massive array, and all the electronics into the bird [and thats a snug fit with what I've packed in there]. You've managed to equal its performance in an airframe, that I can assume, is about 2/3rds the size [judging roughly from your maximum take/off weight]. Very impressive, and don't think about changing it, because your aircraft does not have the LIDAR/LADAR, ACR, and all of that auxiliary equipment to take up space, you've gone straight to the point and packed in a powerful radar array. Smart move, at least in an airborne warfare perspective. The F-67, however, far exceeds the F-78, but you'll likely never face it any sort of combat [I highly doubt we'll ever go to war and I highly doubt I'll ever market it or let it proliferate to [i]anyone ] so you don't need to know about it, hehe...


Ahhh... Yeah. DNI. Remember, it may not be viable in your nation, but I did go through the process of researching and testing it, in character on II. I've had it long enough so where I've 'worked out' the flaws. And in its current stage, only a handful in every couple thousand of those with DNI suffer serious conditions [stroke, neural disorders, nerve failure, paralysis, swelling, etc.] but more suffer minor conditions [dizziness, epilepsy, rejection, numbness, etc.]. Its not, by any means, a perfect system, but its certainly better than it was when I first tested it out. And again, if you don't like it, don't bother with it, the only real advantages you will see is if you roleplay it on the single crewmember field or something like that [otherwise, mass movements and such, you won't notice the advantages which include ability to process more information, faster; faster response times; better communication, etc.]. If you have any questions about my variant of DNI, feel free to ask, its a bit different from the many other 'versions' of it that exist.


Well, that's enough of my ramblings, I tend to get carried away, don't I? If I left anything out I'll likely add it in sometime later. Last word: Superb.
Praetonia
13-09-2005, 18:31
Thanks very much SB =). Praise from you in general is one of the firmest endorsements of a design you can get in my opinion, so it means a lot. You're right about the airframe - it is designed to be relatively small compared to contemporary NS fighters, but I decided that seeing as the thing isnt burdened in terms of electiricty of computing power with DNI or ARC, I could afford to put a pretty powerful radar on it, and it's clear that if you're detected first at medium-ish range you dotn stand an awfully good chance of surviving.

Anyway, I generally agree with you about complexity (in fact I find it quite annoying when people argue that it's best to use RL tech or only slightly better stuff for the sake of logistics) but many of the decisions that made this statistically inferior to the F-78 were made usually because the disadvantages of, for example, larger engines or DNI were not considered enough to outweigh the space, energy and computing power disadvantages. That and I thought it would be kind of cheap to make a plane that's basically the same as the F-78 and pass it off as a competitor. It's more of a challenge if I remove some of the more esoteric options. Anyway, thanks again.

Truitt - It's quite strange that more people dont use small calibre ETC cannons. They're being made in real life.

To: Bill Lighton
Air Force Chief, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
From: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance - Aviation Division
Subject: Production rights request

Sir,

It is a great honour for our friends and allies in Sarzonia, espeically considering your Liberal Imperialist style policies on defence procurement, to request production rights for our aircraft. We will, of course, be happy to obligue for the stated price, but I must warn you that there is no inherent advantage in only purchasing production rights for a limitted amount of time. Regardless of your intentions concerning how long to produce the aircraft for, we will consider you as being rights' holders permanently. I look forward to seeing a future AAC Hussar competitor with great interest.

To: Grand Republican Purchasing Department,
Department of Defence
From: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance - Aviation Division
Subject: Hussar Order

Sir,

I am able to confirm your order of 100 aircraft for your Royal Airforce. They will require 12 months to complete and then will be sent to your nation either by cargo ship or under their own power. It is very nice to see so many of our esteemed allies opting for the Hussar for their own airforces.
Praetonia
14-09-2005, 22:18
*Bump*
Sarzonia
14-09-2005, 22:24
OOC: Prae, you're being paged in the Hellfire OOC thread...
Halberdgardia
15-09-2005, 00:37
To: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance - Aviation Division
From: General Charles Henley, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, the Democratic Imperium of Halberdgardia
Re: Purchase

We are most impressed by this venerable new fighter, and wish to use them against our adversaries of Doomingsland and Freudotopia in the conflict that so many are calling "World War VII" that is sweeping the globe. Therefore, we would like to purchase a limited domestic production rights agreement, preferably for a run of 720 aircraft. This should come out to a final cost of $17,880,000,000. Payment will be wired upon confirmation. We thank you for your time, and continue to hope that the tide in your against the Freeks is in your favor.

Respectfully,
General Charles Henley
Chief of Staff of the Air Force
The Democratic Imperium of Halberdgardia
Praetonia
25-09-2005, 22:57
That is agreeable (take it from the time you psoted the order because I would have replied then had I known there was an order waiting). Thanks for buying from IPO =).

[OOC Note:

Hussars are being phased into the Imperial Naval Flying Corps (INFC) at a rate of 200 / month as they roll off the production line and into the Imperial Coastal Defence Flying Corps (IPCDFC) at a rate of 20 / month. In 5 years the process will be completely complete and the Praetonian armed forces will be completely Hussarised.]
Sarzonia
31-10-2005, 17:46
To: Aviation Division
Imperial Praetonian Ordnance
Through: Bill Lighton
Air Force Chief, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
From: Major General Stephen C. Wilcox (ISAF-Ret.)
Managing Director, Avalon Aerospace Corporation
Subject: New variant/possible collaboration

The Incorporated Sarzonian Air Force has been highly impressed with the L-82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighter; enough, in fact, to warrant the accelerated development of our own SZ-20 'Valkyrie' advanced strike fighter. However, with our requirement for next generation aircraft comes a need to create a new class of fighter-bomber aircraft that provides as much of an overmatch to current fighter bomber arsenals as your strike aircraft does against most other standard aircraft in its class.

You may wonder why we are approaching you in your product information surrounding the strike fighter when we are inquiring about a fighter-bomber aircraft. You may even be wondering why both I and Air Force Chief Bill Lighton are approaching you regarding this matter. The reasons for this unusual approach are that we envision the Hussar as an ideal base around which to base a new fighter-bomber aircraft and we would be interested in either designing such an aircraft ourselves or collaborating with the Imperial Praetonian Ordnance Aviation Division on a new design.

We look forward to hear of your response to this proposal.
Praetonia
31-10-2005, 18:07
To: Major General Stephen C. Wilcox (ISAF-Ret.)
Managing Director, Avalon Aerospace Corporation
CC: Bill Lighton
Air Force Chief, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
From: Air Vice Marshal Tirius Sarvarius
Head of Strategic Planning, Imperial Naval Flying Corps

Having consulted with the management of Imperial Praetonian Ordnance I am pleased to be able to inform you that the Hussar chassis can be made available to the Avalon Aerospace Corporation for a total of $6billion. On the issue of a potential joint design, whilst we are interested in seeing more detailed proposals we do not see the strategic need for a new fighter bomber design when the Hussar (which was designed specially to be able to carry two Lance SSMs aswell as an anti-aircraft armament) fills what is (as far as we can see at present) an identical role. I am not ruling out the possiblity of a joint development programme if more detailed information describing the specific intended role of the aircraft is made available, but as it stands we have no need for a new aircraft to the description which you have so far provided.

I eagerly await your response.
Kroblexskij
31-10-2005, 19:18
OOC Nice plane, does the engine allow for VIFF, reaction jets,
thrust reversers.

- if not i suggest so, it could let it do tighter manouvers.

it looks technologically similar to a plane im designing at the moment. except mine is a RAMjet interceptor.
Sarzonia
31-10-2005, 19:37
To: Air Vice Marshal Tirius Sarvarius
Head of Strategic Planning, Imperial Naval Flying Corps
Through: Bill Lighton
Air Force Chief, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
From: Major General Stephen C. Wilcox (ISAF-Ret.)
Managing Director, Avalon Aerospace Corporation

We are pleased to be informed of your decision regarding the availability of the chassis of the Hussar aircraft. As far as our specific request to create a fighter-bomber as a possible joint venture is concerned, we proposed the arrangement to allow for an aircraft that provides a powerful deterrant to enemy forces as a standard bearer for our new air guard units currently under consideration as part of a home guard as a separate Vice Presidency.

In Sarzonian aerial doctrine, the roles of strike fighter and fighter-bomber are noticeably different; the fighter-bomber would allow us to carry more ordnance for strikes against enemy positions and would permit powerful combatants to be carried on our aircraft carriers, whereas the strike fighter is less capable of the sort of offensive operation we are envisioning. Whereas the Hussar also serves in a air superiority capacity for the Imperial Praetonian Air Force in addition to its strike capabilities, Sarzonian doctrine dictates aircraft that fill specific roles.

Should you and Imperial Praetonian Ordnance elect not to take part in the joint design, we would still provide you with blueprints or production and distribution rights for the aircraft should you choose to adopt the aircraft upon our rollout of the new design. We believe that is the least we can do as a demonstration of our fealty to our Praetonian brethren. We hope that sense of cooperation and, dare I say, affection the Sarzonian people feel toward the Democratic Imperium of Praetonia lasts for all time.
Praetonia
01-11-2005, 11:50
To: Major General Stephen C. Wilcox (ISAF-Ret.)
Managing Director, Avalon Aerospace Corporation
CC: Bill Lighton
Air Force Chief, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
From: Air Vice Marshal Tirius Sarvarius
Head of Strategic Planning, Imperial Naval Flying Corps

Having reviewed your more detailed plans, I am afraid to inform you that we will not be going ahead with a joint development programme, nor does it look as though we will choose to adopt the design. The problem is a matter of doctrine. Every time a new type of aircraft is added, logistics costs increase, training times and costs increase and the proportion of our carrier-based aircraft which can be brought to bear in any specific operation is effectively halved.

With the Hussar we believe we have achieved an optimum balance - with large capacity for advanced missiles, the aircraft carrying them is irrelevent at range, and at close range the Hussar is more than manoeuverable enough to deal with any potential foe. Any increase in speed over that of the Hussar would be irrelevent in our opinion, as the Hussar's maximum speed is already in advance of the maximum which could possibly be used in a dogfight, and the increase in size and weight required to mount more powerful engines is disporportionate to the increases gained, and they are always matched by decreases in fuel efficiency and therefore operation radius. This is compounded by the huge extra strains which would be placed upon the airframe.

We do greatly appreciate the offer, and we would welcome any further proposals for joint design programmes, but we believe that in terms of our current naval air and coastal defence strategy purchasing a fighter-bomber as well as a strike fighter would be counterproductive and expensive.
Southeastasia
28-11-2005, 11:06
OOC: Prae, sorry to bump an old thread, but I've a question. I noticed that on International Mall that you closed down that old SF of yours because you didn't want it no more or something along those lines. But then I see you also have made a vehicle for the purpose of clearing out protestors somewhere on this forum....you planning to make an all brand new IPO sometime in the near future?
Praetonia
28-11-2005, 19:17
[OOC: I might do, when I have some more vehicles. You should note the date on that IM thread though. It'll probably be like June '04.]
[NS]Kreynoria
29-11-2005, 02:24
The Divine Empire seeks to purchase 650 of these superior fighters for a total of $97.5 billion.
Southeastasia
30-11-2005, 11:37
OOC: Thanks for telling me. Free BUMP for Praetonia!
Southeastasia
10-12-2005, 10:18
bump
Praetonia
10-12-2005, 10:37
Kreynoria']The Divine Empire seeks to purchase 650 of these superior fighters for a total of $97.5 billion.
To: Whom it May Concern,
Kreynoria
From: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance - Aviation Division
Subject: Production rights request

Thankyou for placing an roder for 650 of our fighters. Production began when you placed your order but, due to a technical error, no message of confirmation was sent. Your aircraft will be sent to your nation immediately, with a 10% discount due to our slowness in replying, for which I apologise. I hope that these aircraft serve your nation well, and that you will consider IPA weaponry again in future.
Haraki
10-12-2005, 16:56
I would like to purchase 360 of these incredible pieces of work for service in my nation.
Southeastasia
31-12-2005, 19:23
bump
Van Luxemburg
31-12-2005, 19:39
From: Phillippe Dermont, Minsiter of Defence, Van Luxemburg
To: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance - Aviation Division
Subject: L-82 Hussar

Dear Sir/Ma'am.

We are about to complement you with the exceptional design, a design we've been looking for to replace our SEPECAT Jaguar aircraft, 300 in our inventory. We therefore would like to buy the specified amount of 300 L82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighters, at the calculated price of 4.5 billion US Dollars. Our calculator could be faking us again, so we ask you to verify the amount of money specified. We will send the money on confirmation and arrival of the requested order.

Phillippe Dermont
LUXEMBOURG, VAN LUXEMBURG.

(OOC: I don't know if I may buy those, but I'll try it anyway.)
The Xeno
31-12-2005, 21:26
OOC: You asked for criticing..

Mach 3.0? That's rediculously fast. Most current strike fighters have a supercruise speed of mach 1.9 or so, and that gobbles fuel at an extraordinary rate.

This thing would have a massive radar signature due to the size of the fuel tanks and engines required to put out that kind of thrust. Not to mention VTOL venting..

Speaking of fuel, the range on something that cruises anything above mach 1.3 is going to eat fuel so fast that its operational range would be within a few hundred miles, making it a very short-ranged aircraft. And that's with a complete payload of fuel, with extra fuel bunkers on wing and body pylons.

Weaponry.. that's a lot of missiles and bombs. With the massive fuel consumption, the strike range would be cut in half, making the jet almost useless.

>_> meow.
Praetonia
01-01-2006, 11:55
OOC: You asked for criticing..

Mach 3.0? That's rediculously fast. Most current strike fighters have a supercruise speed of mach 1.9 or so, and that gobbles fuel at an extraordinary rate.
Most NS strike fighters go faster than Mach 3. Now look at the air superiority fighters. Even RL Russian jets get Mach 3 *shrug*

This thing would have a massive radar signature due to the size of the fuel tanks and engines required to put out that kind of thrust. Not to mention VTOL venting..
The fuel tanks and the engines are internal... so they would not make the radar signature any larger than the size of the plane makes it. Stealth isnt a very major concern, but it isnt that unstealthy, what with the RAM, low RCS shape, Etc. And it doesnt have any "VTOL venting", it VTOLs using its thrust vectoring nozzles.

Speaking of fuel, the range on something that cruises anything above mach 1.3 is going to eat fuel so fast that its operational range would be within a few hundred miles, making it a very short-ranged aircraft. And that's with a complete payload of fuel, with extra fuel bunkers on wing and body pylons.
Better tell the Russians that, because according to them the Mig-31 has an operational radius of 720km with a sea level supercruise speed of Mach 1.23. (BTW, the operational radius I claim for this is a few hundred miles. 745 miles to be exact).

Weaponry.. that's a lot of missiles and bombs. With the massive fuel consumption, the strike range would be cut in half, making the jet almost useless.
The very same Mig-31 actually weighs more than this *shrug*

>_> meow.
Errr...?

Southeast Asia - Why are you bumping this thread? :/

Van Luxembourg -

To: Whom it May Concern,
Kreynoria
From: Imperial Aeronautics
Subject: Aircraft Purchase

Thankyou for your complement of our design and your order, however I regret to inform you that the price for 300 L-82 Hussars would come to $45,000,000,000 rather than 4,500,000,000. Please feel free to check this again yourself if you are unsure. If you wish to go ahead with the order anyway, then your planes will take 3 years to complete. If you wish to revise your order, please let us know.
Van Luxemburg
01-01-2006, 14:46
From: Phillippe Dermont, Defence Ministry
To: Imperial Aeronautics
Subject: Aircraft Purchase

We thank your for your last check. We confirm the order of 300 L-82 Hussar Advanced Strike Fighters. This will then come to 45,000,000,000 USD. We expect to wire the money after the first aircraft has arrived.
We have also fired the man who calculated the amount of 4,500,000,000 earlier. This is, we hope, to your full satisfaction.

Phillippe Dermont
Ministry of Defence
VAN LUXEMBURG
Southeastasia
01-01-2006, 15:19
OOC: Because you overlooked Haraki's order, so that's why.
Van Luxemburg
01-01-2006, 15:21
OOC: SEA: I bet you're a very social person.
Southeastasia
01-01-2006, 15:22
OOC: Let's take this to TGs, VL.
Van Luxemburg
01-01-2006, 15:24
OOC: Okay with me, Check 'em back.
The Xeno
01-01-2006, 16:26
The fuel tanks and the engines are internal... so they would not make the radar signature any larger than the size of the plane makes it. Stealth isnt a very major concern, but it isnt that unstealthy, what with the RAM, low RCS shape, Etc. And it doesnt have any "VTOL venting", it VTOLs using its thrust vectoring nozzles

The thing is, stealth aircraft nowdays are made from materials that radar goes through instead of reflects back off of. And the larger internal parts are wrapped in some heavy radar-absorbing materials. Meh. I was just wondering why you had internal bays for your weapons if it wasn't a stealth aircraft. Otherwise, you can save several hundred pounds worth of motors and mechanisms by just using external pylons. =)

Better tell the Russians that, because according to them the Mig-31 has an operational radius of 720km with a sea level supercruise speed of Mach 1.23. (BTW, the operational radius I claim for this is a few hundred miles. 745 miles to be exact).


*nods* Yeah, that's reasonable. I figured it was another of these unrealistic "The range is 4,000 miles!" type deals. That sounds about right.

The very same Mig-31 actually weighs more than this *shrug*
Yup. But the M-31E is an interceptor version, with all of those AARMs and its range is cut by something like 500km because of all the weight. And that's just missiles, no bombs.

Errr...?

Meow. *nods* ^.^

Anyhow, I think my overall point was, it's not like a F-22 Raptor or anything, with the whole stealth fighter stuff. A good strike fighter, though.
Praetonia
02-01-2006, 10:55
The thing is, stealth aircraft nowdays are made from materials that radar goes through instead of reflects back off of. And the larger internal parts are wrapped in some heavy radar-absorbing materials. Meh. I was just wondering why you had internal bays for your weapons if it wasn't a stealth aircraft. Otherwise, you can save several hundred pounds worth of motors and mechanisms by just using external pylons. =)
Well stealth isnt an absolute thing. Adding external pylons will increase the minimum detection range for this by a considerable amount, regardless of other stealthing features. The shape of the aircraft also reduces it's radar signature. Just because it is not primarily intended to operate based on its stealth does not mean that I will go out of my way to make it as unstealthy as possible.

*nods* Yeah, that's reasonable. I figured it was another of these unrealistic "The range is 4,000 miles!" type deals. That sounds about right.
:)

Yup. But the M-31E is an interceptor version, with all of those AARMs and its range is cut by something like 500km because of all the weight. And that's just missiles, no bombs.
And this has more powerful engines. It all balances out.

Meow. *nods* ^.^

Anyhow, I think my overall point was, it's not like a F-22 Raptor or anything, with the whole stealth fighter stuff. A good strike fighter, though.
Yarr. Considering what this is going to be attacking (fleets or ground forces) the enemy is going to have so many powerful radars pointed at the sky that stealth isnt going to be all that useful in the way it was in the First Gulf War.
Southeastasia
02-01-2006, 10:57
I would like to purchase 360 of these incredible pieces of work for service in my nation.
This is why I bumped up your topic. You overlooked Haraki's order.