NationStates Jolt Archive

Open Communique to the World

We invite all freedom-loving nations of the world to Kreynoriapolis (aka Honolulu) for a conference that will define the basic rights of every human being on Earth II.

List of attendees
Kreynoria
Cotland
Layarteb
The Lightning Star
The Soviet Sith
Elephantum
Pantheaa
Bjornoya
Pushka
Celtayoshi
Huahin

OOC: Finally I get to have some fun. Please, someone at this conference ask about Isla Sorna & Isla Nublar (off Coasta Rica) and stuff, please someone cite the human rights violations I have so I can finally have some fun!!! I also have a new prison on the Galapagos and many other "political" prisons.

The Empire of Layarteb will be happy to send a representative to this conference.

The Empire of Cotland wish to send a representative.

A representative from The Soviet Sith will be attending.

The Federation of Pantheaa will send a representative to the conference...

OOC Brief on Some Stuff I Have

Galapagos Islands
On Santa Fé island, I have a 12km² prison for up to 1,000,000 people. It is a political prison, not much different from Nova Prospekt from Half-Life. Check out The Forsaken Island (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=442286) for the RP on it. The prison is classified and the island archipelago is protected by satellite scramblers. It's a massive military base with tons of equipment everywhere on the islands. Obviously spyplanes would be banned from there and I would shoot your butt down. There are "rumors" though, very powerful ones, about a horrible and grim prison on one of the islands. That's about as much as is known.

Isla Sorna/Nublar
These are two islands west of Costa Rica. On Isla Nublar there is a small military base. The island is home to quite a few "Forsaken." Basically those who are diagnosed with incurable diseases, primarily STDs, are sent to these islands. Satellite scramblers and reconnaissance planes are in place and banned, respectively. There are much stronger rumors about these two islands being the place of the devil, more or less. Many people have gone missing after doctor's exams and turn up here. This place is seriously classified but the rumors about this place are much stronger than Santa Fé. See this RP, Isla del Enfermo (Earth II) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398102) for information about it.

Kaliningrad
Albeit Kaliningrad isn't in the Layartebian control anymore, the insurection that erupted there was massive and the Layartebians did a lot of suppression. The Kingdom of Forgotten Warriors (Earth II) (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=380343) is an RP about that war. There were quite a bunch of human rights violations there that were much more public than either islands above this.

Yucatán
The Yucatán is currently the source of another civil war within the Empire. Thus far, for the time being, the war is pretty quiet. Cotland is involved but that's secret IC. La Guerra que no Hombre Debe Saber (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434657) is the RP about it. There are serious human rights violations here but there aren't really any rumors going on either except that some "foreign" nation, I don't know who, is funding the insurgents there so do what you want but details are pretty well hidden.

Various Prisons
The EOL has various prisons throughout its Empire, many of which are semi-hidden. The media doesn't really know about them but there is a lot of speculation. In The Layartebian Chronicles (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=384916), you can read about some. The EOL is pretty strict with their laws and those who are in violation are met with severe penalties. Murders are often executed in horrible ways. Rapists are castrated and made to suffer. Those who molest or abuse children are tortured to something fierce. Major federal crimes (counterfeiting, sedition, etc.) are sent to political prisons. There is little due process here and people do get fair trials but there is no double standard when it comes to justice. Once convicted there aren't any appeals unless there is seriously damning evidence to show to the contrary of what has been decided. Corruption on the justice level isn't that prevalent on the local level and non-existent on the federal level. Of course there are bad eggs but that's just everywhere. Police are usually a little high spirited and have gone excessive on people but that is their perogative.

Inside the Emperor's castle, just outside of his office, the Minister of the Interior was sitting and waiting. He was going to be meeting with the Emperor prior to his flight to Honolulu, where the Global Human Rights Conference was being held. The Emperor was currently on a conference call with the Joint Chiefs and the tactical commander in the Yucatán. Force Falcon was currently in the process of raiding a small town in the far southeast of the state. Some very strange findings had caused them to worry and report immediately that they had found something very serious. Nonetheless, the call was ending.

The Emperor buzzed his secretary and told her to let the Minister in. Upon entering, the Emperor shook his hand. "Minister, sir. How are you doing?" The Emperor sat back down and watched as the great doors to his office shut.

"I'm fine sir and yourself?"

"Our situation in the Yucatán is growing more dangerous by the day."

"Understood."

"I wanted to speak to you about the conference."

"Yes sir. I imagine we will be asked about some of our 'projects.'"

"Yes we will. With concern to Nova Prospekt, Isla Nublar, and Isla Sorna, I want to discuss with you our current plan of attack concerning any questions."

"Understood."

"Isla Nublar and Isla Sorna are the current site of a small military base. In addition, the islands are the current site of a medical research facility looking into cures for incurable diseases. The base is kept under strict security because of the presence of protestors who may cause havoc and problems. Animal testing is being used there and many pro-animal groups do not approve of this."

"Yes sir. Understood. No elaboration."

"Precisely. Now with concern to Nova Prospekt. There is no proof that it is a prison. So our response with concern to Nova Prospekt is that it is a massive barracks for soldiers. The islands are under high security and protection because they are vital to the Empire's national defense and security. The residents were evacuated from the islands because living conditions were sub-par and were all to be relocated throughout the Empire in much better living conditions. A foreign country has saw fit to sink the ships and that country has not been identified yet."

"Understood. What about our prisons and justice system?"

"That is of no concern to foreign countries as it is an internal system that is not their business."

"And with concern to the Yucatán?"

"Deny."

"Kaliningrad?"

"That was an insurrection of mass proportions that was handled effectively and efficently."

"Very well sir. I shall take my leave then."

"Most certainly. You will be accompanied by six aides and eight personal guards."

"Thank you sir." The Emperor and the Minister stood and shook each others' hand. The delegation of fifteen men would be leaving from Layarteb International Airport via C-21B Learjet to San Salvador, 1,816 nautical miles. Then, they would refuel and fly to Honolulu, another 3,936 nautical miles. The C-21B had a range of 5,465 nautical miles, a top speed of 635 miles per hour, and a maximum altitude of 57,000 feet. General cruising altitude was 40,000 feet and cruise speed was 510 miles per hour.

The Elephanti government would like to send a representative to this conference. Many recent events, especially the Polish situation, concerned Elephantum. While in the past, under Wandu e-Mumman, some events against Hindus and Christians, along with political minorities, had occured, his son had brought the nation into a better position, and the government was much more compassionate now.

Celtayoshi will send a delegation consisting of our Minister for Social Welfare and numerous aides. We hope to bring forward the views of Celtayoshi concerning Human Rights.

To Celtayoshi, Elephantum, Layarteb, Cotland, Pantheaa, and Soviet Sith:


We appreciate that you feel human rights are an important issue. All of your delegations are welcome to stay at the Royal Diamondhead Hotel, our most luxurious hotel. We will be increasing security for your representative. May we also warn you that the waters around Hawaii are mined, and if you come by boat, we will escort you through one of the shipping lanes.

The Federation of Bjornoya wishes to send a delegate.

You are gladly welcomed, Bjornoya.

Escorted by three F-35 fighters, a pair of modified 747 jets took off from Amman International Airport. Mumarth e-Thalith, the Sultan of Antarctica, had been in Amman awaiting orders to fly to Poland. That was no longer neccessary, and as he was the most experienced Sultan currently in the country, as many were in Ottowa for the peace conference there, it was his duty to attend the Kreynoriapolis meeting. He and a small staff flew in one 747, while the other was a decoy. They flew to Madras, where they stopped and refueled before making the long trip to Hawaii.

He was ready to answer any questions about Elephanti actions, past or present. There had been some medical experiments in the past, involving human testing, that may have qualified as violations, along with some actions Wandu e-Mumman commited. When his wife and son took over, things dramatically improved. Prisons were among the most humane in the world, and child labor laws had been enacted in all twelve Sultantes.

For now, he would rest. It was a long flight after all.

Bump

The Royal Diamondhead Hotel was being vacated for the representatives of the various nations attending the Conference. The hotel was undergoing a thorough cleaning. 200 Imperial Guardsmen were stationed at the hotel in addition to the normal hotel security. With the news that the Elephanti delegation would be arriving soon, the luxury suit their delegation would be staying in was being redecorated, with furniture and paintings in the Elephanti style being added. The hotel's cooks began planning a menu including penguin steak and other Elephanti foods for their delegation to choose from. All the other suites were being prepared in a similar manner for the arrival of the other delegates.

The C-21B Learjet flew unescorted across Layartebian territory, picking up a pair of F-22A Raptor escorts as it came over the Caribbean Sea. It made its landing at San Salvador and refueled. The F-22A Raptors did the same, picking up a pair of external fuel tanks to make the journey across the Pacific to Honolulu. A single KC-10A Extender would be on call over the Pacific to make a refueling point so that the F-22A Raptors would be well fueled if they had to drop their tanks.

Union of Communist Republics wishes to send a representative.

You are welcome to attend.

CPC member Gregorie Nikitin was rapidly packing his luggage. Only 40 minutes ago he was informed that he was chosen to be the UCR representative at the human rights convention. A phone rang and a woman on the other side told him of his task, she also told him that a taxi will be waiting to take him to the airport in an hour. The irritated notes in the woman's voice and the fact that he was informed of his election so carelessly late, told him one thing. Nobody in the Communist Party Council cared about the Human Rights Convention, they simply sent him there to put a check mark on their big list of things to do to keep a respectable international image. Non the less Gregorie was excited, he was the most outspoken member of CPC on the issue and he also wrote several books on the matter.

He suddenly stopped packing and stood still for a second trying to remember something, he then turned his head to the doorway leading to the hall.

Gregorie: "Natasha where is my favorite tie?"-His wife came out of the kitchen.

Natasha:"You already packed it 20 minutes ago. Don't be nervous, you done this before."

Gregorie:"Its one thing to talk to a bunch of people who are impartial to what you are talking about, its a different thing to talk to people who are focused on the same issue as you."

Natasha:"Just the same you'll do fine, you know what you are talking about."

A phone suddenly rang, Gregorie picked it up. The taxi driver on the other end told Gregorie that he is waiting downstairs. Gregorie hang up and looked in the window, he saw the black BMW with CPC markings.

Gregorie: "Wow, they sent an official car, you don't see that every day, and the guy actually arrived early..."-Gregorie zipped his bag and put on his coat-"Alright i got to go now, tell Sasha then he wakes up that i said goodbye."

Natasha: "I will, be back soon."

Gregorie left his appartment and went into the elevator, he exited the building and got into the back seat of the BMW, the driver was a man in his mid 40s, in an official black suit. Then Gregorie was getting into the car the driver took his bag and placed it in the trunk.

The drive wasn't that long, about half an hour.

Gregorie got out of the car and was greeted by two more men in black suits similar to the driver's, they got Gregorie's luggage out of the trunk and had him follow them into the airport. Where he was given his temporary Kreynorian visa and his luggage was checked. The two men walked him to the shuttle bus that drove him to a private jet with CPC markings. Before entering Gregorie looked around and saw 5 jet fighters sitting on an airway adjacent to the private jet's.

Gregorie:"What are those for"-he motioned in the direction of the jet fighters.

Agent:"Thats for your escort, just incase something goes wrong, but don't worry it won't."

Gregorie got into the plane, the two CPC agents showed him to his accomodations. Where was a couch, a TV, a table, the room was very spacious. Then the agents left Gregorie lay down on the couch and tried to fall asleep. The plane took off in the direction of Kreynoria. Five G-105 Air Superiority Jet Fighters followed it.

The Minister of Social Welfare had never travelled outside of Celtayoshi on a work visit before, he was most impressed by the style of travel. Since he was travelling on official business one of the Gvoernments fleet of reserved Air Celtayoshi aircraft was taken for the purposes of this trip. Although not as big or as comfortable as the Premier's craft this one was certainly a lot more luxurious than the Minister Pavel Nygo was used to.
The plane arrived at Honolulu a few hours later, where the Minister stepped off and was greeted by the arrival commitee. The Air Celtayoshi aircraft moved off into storage for the duraton of the trip, under the watchful eye of CYSIS Police and Army protection troops.

Anja Hyvärinta looked out the window. The lonely ice of the Arctic stretched for hours and hours. She thought of the upcoming conference. As a child, she was selected as having superior linguistic and persuasive skills. This was what she was created to do.

Conrad Julmala cracked his knuckles. A bodyguard on an airplane had little to do. He got out a pack of peanuts, and ground them to dust. Bored, he looked for any other reasonable object to destroy.

It would be another 7 hours before the craft reached Kreynorian airspace. Anja slept, and waited for the upcoming debates. A thousand arguments fought their way through her head, point after counterpoint she found her way through the mess. How well she debated would effect how well all citizens of the world would be treated, or so she hoped.

The arrival committee, after greeting the Celtayoshi party, led them to the Royal Diamondhead Hotel.

In the skies over the North Atlantic Ocean, somewhere between Britain and North Carolina, a single white airplane streaked through the air. The plane, which was a modified Boeing 737-800 owned by the Imperial Cottish Air Force, carried the Cottish delegation to the conference in Honolulu. The diplomat that was the leader of the delegation, sixty-three year old Robert Dallie was sitting in a seat close to the cockpit, dozing off.

He was due to retire from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs next month, and this meeting was the last one he was to attend. It was perfect for him. He would spend the mornings in the conference rooms, and the afternoon on the beach or at the pool, enjoying the heat. His health didn't much like the cold weather that was predominant of the Cottish climate, but rather heat.

Also accompanying him were three younger diplomats and two members of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs security staff. The two men were armed with a Walther P99 each, as well as a heavy telescopic baton made out of stainless steel. There were no minister present at the conference, due to the conflicts that Cotland were currently engaged in.

Cotland were known for several issues that had occured that might be considered human rights violations. Examples were the massacre at Al-Rafiki a few months ago, the crushing of the rebellion in Cotlandstad two years ago and consequent public hanging of the leader, as well as several rumors of beatings and torture taking place in Cottish prisons. Cotland also executed quite a few people each year for crimes such as murder, terrorism, treason, drug-related crimes and rape. There were also rumors about torture taking place in order to get criminals to confess their crimes. The instructions the diplomats had were to deny the rumors, and use the old "mind your own business"-argument for the other things.

The C-21B Learjet approached Kreynorian airspace and requested permission to land. In the cockpit, things were tense. The Krey's were currently in a stand-off with the Cottish and Layartebian ships had formed a quasi-blockaide around their Hawaiian islands at a range of 25 nautical miles out. A massive armada of ships had encircled the islands and several submarines had already put to sea. This was a dangerous situation. At any moment, things could become catastrophic and this could become a shooting war. If it did, the Minister of the Interior was in a very dangerous situation.

Permission granted.

It was 6 o’clock in the morning when Carlos Ravenna’s learjet had taken off. Despite flying several times while a member of the Mexican soccer time, he hated leaving the ground. The former soccer player turned diplomat was the head of the human rights division in the department of Foreign Affairs. And he was one of the only Mexicans that was apart of the Slovakian dominate adminstration of President Ivan Kerensky


His good friend Ivan was unpredictable, paranoid and godlike. He was indeed an enigma. A Slovakain exile who somehow manage to take control of a country dominant by Russians in Orenburg Oblast via coup d’etat. He saw himself as a defender of the 3rd world and the oppressed. And if their was going to be a conference on anything about human rights he would make sure that Pantheaa was present and had its say.

It would be several hours before he would land in Honolulu. And that gave Carlos just enough time to go over his note and decide whom he would trust and who he would not.

Pragya, the newly-appointed Prayogic Ambassador to The Republic of Sonaj, saw the e-mail from Chief Prayojak of The Republic of Prayog sitting in her inbox like a stale bagel.

"What does he want now?" she muttered as she clicked savagely on the message. As she read through the curt message, she groaned audibly and turned around to call to her husband, The First Secretary of the Embassy.

"Darling, I'm being asked to go to some place called Kreynoria. He wants me to represent our republic at a Human Rights Conference, and says that Madras is a popular place for aircraft to refuel for their journey. I am to hitch a lift with any of the other delegations if the invitation comes through.

"Hmm..." said Prashant, speculatively scratching his protruding paunch. "I think you should go. Our country could do with some visibility in international fora, specially since our approach to Human Rights is so innovative." You could be specially effective in talking about the Marxist approach, you, know..."

Pragya cut him off. "But, we've just got here last week! I haven't even unpacked poor Brandy's rubber bone, and to leave him alone just when he's all disoriented and scared would be cruel."

Prashant's brow furrowed. "Alone? What do you mean alone? I'll be here, won't I?"

"No; he says that you should go too, and leave the embassy to Pramit and Prerna. It'll be valuable experience for them, specially since nothing is happening here."

"We could take Brandy... Animal Rights are just a step away from Human Rights, aren't they?"

"I've said yes, of course," said Pragya as she finished clacking her reply to the Chief Prayojak on the keyboard. "There's no point in discussing all of this before our invitation is confirmed."

Are you Earth II?

The plane flew over international waters refueling several times, the jet fighters followed. About 10 miles before entering Kreyonian aerospace the jetliner made contact.

Pilot: Do we have permission to enter your space?

Meanwhile Gregorie woke up and was thinking over his position.

Okay what are my weak points, the treatment of the prisoners from the neo-nazi rebellion, rumors of murders by the government, the slave labor camps in Sierra Leone before that territory separated from the Union, i might get slammed on those, need to think a little more.

Just assume I am landed and waiting for the conference.

Permission granted to Pushka. Why don't we just skip the fancy-shmancy landing posts and get to the conference?

The 737-800 landed at Honolulu airport after flying over Pearl Harbor and taking some great pictures of the military installations. Since the jet was a Cottish air force aircraft, it was considered Cottish sovereign territory and would be defended as such if anyone tried to board it without permission.

The crew of ten, all of them soldiers in the Air Force, had extensive weapons training, and there were a small hidden stockpile of weapons aboard, like all Cottish transport aircraft. This was not common knowledge, and there were no chance the Kreynorians knew, or anyone else for that matter. The stockpile consisted mostly of P17 pistols, but also some MP5 submachine guns and AG3A2 carbines. They were naturally safely secured, and would not be taken out unless the plane was boarded by threatening foreigners.

Anyway, the plane landed safely, and the diplomats and their tiny security detail were greeted by the Kreynorians and escorted to their hotel, Royal Diamondhead. There the diplomats relaxed while they waited for the conference to start.

OOC: Deal with the skipping to the conference bit.

Are you Earth II?
To be honest, I don't know! I just looked into Nationstates and thought it would be fun to play out an experiment: watch the State wither away under governance from Marxist principles. My NS is located in Asia.

Then you're not EII. Sign up on the Earth II: Revitalization page and then you can join in.

Hey, you actually read my factbook(ish). Im working on a much better version.

Heres a link to it if you want

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=373378

We would like to express our gratitude to all nations that chose to participate in this conference. In this day and age, the basic rights of every human being are sometimes ignored, and we are struggling to define them. We hope you've enjoyed the accomadations we've provided you with. Let us now begin the conference.

Carthage wishes to send a delegate.

OOC: Is there a list of everyone who is attending?

I'll make one on the first post. Everyone in Earth II is welcome to attend.

Kreynoria']Permission granted to Pushka. Why don't we just skip the fancy-shmancy landing posts and get to the conference?

OOC: That works

IC:

The plane landed and Gregorie left for the hotel in a car that was carried in the plane he arrived on, a black BMW. A gang of CPC agents who Gregorie never seen getting onto a plane went with him. He got to the hotel he unpacked and started preparing his speech.

The Minister of the Interior sat in his hotel room, overlooking documents prepared for the conference. The EOL would have no "official" stance on global human rights except that it is the sovereign right of each state to decide their own definiton of human rights. With him, the bodyguards and aides sat, either on the phone, watching TV, or looking out at Honolulu. The conference would begin at any time and the Minister of the Interior was more curious whether or not the situation would become chaotic or not. They were in hostile territory, Kreynoria not being a favored state of the Empire, an unofficial, quasi, semi-blocking blockaide in effect 25 nautical miles from the islands, around all of them, pending the situation with Cotland.

I would also like to send a delegation to this conference.

Glad to see you're still here, I thought you were gone like Zeeeland. That will be great. I'll try to start by tommorow afternoon.

Kreynoria']Glad to see you're still here, I thought you were gone like Zeeeland. That will be great. I'll try to start by tommorow afternoon.

Good beans. This is going to be good.

The Minister of the Interior laid down to bed. The room was dark and the men inside his hotel room were going to bed as well. Four guards would stay awake during the night, keeping guard, two outside the door and two inside. The other four would sleep. They would rotate mid-way through the night, allowing all of them to be fully awake for the conference, scheduled to begin in the afternoon. As he laid down and took off his glasses, he couldn't help but think about the fragility of the situation. Sitting 25 nautical miles away from the coast was an armada of ships, many of them carrying nuclear weapons, albeit not many, but Hawaii wasn't all that big. This could be bad. He thought to himself as he shut his eyes.

*****************

Sitting 28 nautical miles, directly south of Honolulu, in water 7,424 feet deep, a single Hunter Class submarine sat silently. The submarine was 1,600 feet deep, moving in a small patrol box, at 5 knots. The submarine could go 40 knots and 25 was considered tactical silent. Weighing 12,500 tons, the 400 foot long, 45 foot wide, nautical powered submarine was a masterpiece. She was powered by a pair of pebblebed nuclear reactors, designation SNR-5, each of which drove a single geared steam turbine. The two turbines pushed a single pumpjet propulsor. Between the turbines and reactor, a total of 80,000 shaft horsepower was put out to the propulsor. She could go 80 years before refueling, essentially more than the life of the actual submarine. Endurance was limited to 120 days on supplies.

The ship was constructed like the Seawolf Flight III and Scythe. She was doubled hulled, with the space between the hulls filled with a super dense rubber that absorbed almost all exterior sound and prevented interior sound from exiting the submarine. An active sonar ping was almost 90% absorbed by the hull, just like the Virginia Class SSN. She was crewed by 12 officers and 120 enlistees.

Its weapons suite was phenomenal. She mounted eight forward 660MM torpedo tubes inside the pressure hull and an additional six outside of the pressure hull, also facing forward. Aside from sixteen preloaded weapons, she could hold an additional fifty-two weapons for tube shot. In addition, the submarine had sixteen vertical launch tubes. Self defense systems consisted of 4 internal CM launchers each a reloadable 2-barrel and 16 external CM launchers. Standard load for the Hunter was as follows:


FIM-186A Wizard SAM: 20
Mark 55 ADCAP II Torpedo: 26
UGM-176C Tomahawk II TLAM: 8
UGM-180H Harpoon II ASM: 8
UGM-193B Relic ASM: 16
UGM-198A Stallion ASM: 6
UGM-198B Stallion LAM: 8
UGM-198C Stallion ASuM: 10


This Hunter carried a different ordinance load. She was customized for this mission, blockaide duty and immediate strike duty.


FIM-186A Wizard SAM: 20
Mark 55 ADCAP II Torpedo: 24
UGM-176A-3 Tomahawk II TLAM-N: 4
UGM-176B Tomahawk II TASM: 4
UGM-176C Tomahawk II TLAM: 4
UGM-180H Harpoon II ASM: 8
UGM-193B Relic ASM: 16
UGM-198A Stallion ASM: 6
UGM-198B Stallion LAM: 4
UGM-198C Stallion ASW: 8
UGM-198D Stallion LAM-N: 4


The UGM-176A-3 were loaded with 500 kiloton warheads and the UGM-198D was loaded with a 250 kiloton warhead. The eight missiles were split, four for land and four for anti-ship duty. The latter four would be aimed at any carriers in port or at sea and could be, if necessary, targetted onto land targets. The wide loadout of the Hunter meant that she could undertake several missions. Her load of UGM-198C Stallions and ADCAP IIs gave it superior anti-submarine duties. Her loadout of UGM-176B Tomhawk IIs, UGM-180H Harpoon IIs, UGM-193B Relics, and UGM-198A Stallions were excellent for anti-shipping. For attacking land targets, she was loaded with the UGM-98B Stallion and the UGM-176 Tomahawk II. The nuclear ordinance of the UGM-176A-3 Tomahawk II and UGM-198D Stallion would allow the Hunter to strike with serious devestation. The Hunter was one of many submarines surrounding the island chain, accompanied by frigates, destroyers, cruisers, support ships, and aircraft carriers. All-in-all, there was enough nuclear power in the blockaide line to effectively annihilate every square inch of the islands five times over.

The Hunter had problems initially. The first test submarine was lost, though recovered, after a serious reactor flaw was found. All problems had been corrected. The use of the SNR-6, pebblebed was an experimental design and not without flaws and problems. It still had yet to be perfected and that would take at least another fifteen years of development. For now, the design was sound enough to use in a submarine and surface ship, but no larger.

The sub was commanded by Captain Jack Phoenix. He moved up to the Hunter after showing extreme distinction in the role of a Scythe captain. The Hunter was a very different submarine though it had a lot of similarities. The Scythe was beyond powerful, an SSN the size of an Ohio with serious power and weaponry. The Hunter was made to be smaller, faster, more agile, and nothing short of scary. It was a classified submarine. All submarines went in and out of port underwater, to keep them top secret and hidden from satellites. They only surfaced when necessary and when they were scheduled to, when it was deemed propper. In its life time, a Layartebian submarine would surface maybe twice, without major incident.

Captain Phoenix sat in his chair, in the Conn, drinking green tea and looking around at the various displays. The entire Conn was state of the art, with the most advanced monitors and systems present. The computer system alone in the submarine was more advanced than most countries even possessed in their entire nation. He had ordered the submarine to remain at 1,600 feet and was scheduled for a radio message in about an hour. It would be done from that depth, the submarine would just come to a stop and the radio buoy set to float. The Captain was a very edgy man. He had seen combat four times already in his Scythe and had sunk four destroyers, two frigates, and a pair of attack submarines. He also had a shared kill on an aircraft carrier. He knew what a battle situation was like and for a submarine it was dangerous. If a ship was hit, the men could go into the water on rafts. If a submarine was hit, it was already underwater, there was not going to be survival for anyone. He had evaded two torpedoes in his Scythe and in the simulator evaded about six dozen, in total, in his Hunter, but real life was nothing like the simulator. He knew this and he knew that he was dangerously close to Kreynorian shores. He would not venture closer than twenty-five nautical miles and there was no way he was going to come within 150 feet of the surface of the water.

If he got the order to attack, he would be in a very dangerous position. The submarine was set for an instant strike, its primary target being Honolulu and its associated naval port. The strike would be quick and painless, the missiles hitting only a few minutes after they were fired.

Captain Phoenix knew of the conference and knew about it well. The Minister of the Interior was his son and he felt a strong relationship with him ever since his wife died from cancer fourteen years earlier. He, on the other hand, survived a small bout with cancer as well, nothing near as tragic or unrelenting as hers. He knew one thing, that if he had to launch, he was essentially condemning his son to death. He knew and had faith that the Emperor would not order the attack until the delegation was safe but who knew if that was possible in 100% of the situations. It wasn't. If they were kidnapped and the Kreys initiated a strike against Layartebian assets, he would have to fire, regardless of whether or not the delegation was safe.

The entire situation was a giant conundrum!

All delegations are hereby summoned to the conference room.

Rules:

1. No heavy weapons for security

2. No firearms or blades in the conference room

3. Please try to remain civil

OOC: I'll get it really started this afternoon, I have very limited time now before school.

Cool means. Yeah school is like a girlfriend: time de-generator.

Bump for Krey, he's on.

OOC: Sorry about the delay. Here it goes.


IC: With all of the various representatives now in the conference room, the conference was set to begin.

A Kreynorian official stood up. "Good afternoon. On the behalf of the Divine Empire of Kreynoria, I welcome you to Kreynoriapolis and the Global Human Rights Conference. I would like to thank you all for attending."

After pausing for a moment, he continued on.

"In this day and age, human rights are like planets. Because there is no exact definition of them, many nations, including my own, have commited atrocious acts. These violations of human rights must cease. Our purpose in meeting is not to punish nations that have commited such acts, but to define human rights and create a means of enforcing them.

Again, there was a short pause to let this sink in.

"Now that we are all gathered here, let us begin that process. First off, we must openly confess grevious acts our nations have commited. By using these as examples, we can decide what the rights of each human on Earth. First off, I shall admit to the crime Kreynoria has commited. During the occupation of Namibia, our berserker troops were responsible for the deaths of an estimated 120,000 Namibian civilians. Now we shall go around the table."

The speaker nodded and gestured to the Layartebian ambassador just to his right.

"You may begin when ready, ambassador. Disturbing rumours about Isla Nublar and Isla Sorna have reached the ears of many, myself included. I am sure we would all like some answers."

OOC: Just to keep it easy, for my post: italics = thought.

The Layartebian delegate instantly felt the question. How to respond. He thought to himself. "I am afraid I do not fully grasp the nature of your question. Yes Isla Nublar and Sorna exist. I cannot say that I have been party to these rumors and I would like to know specifically what you are trying to ask." Nozzle the question. Off topic. He sat back and scribbled something on his notepad.

"There have been rumours of the islands being used as a prison for diseased persons or political dissidents, depending on who you listen to. There have been rumours of genetic experimentation, torture, and grisly executions. I myself don't believe most of it, but all the same there is a shroud of mystery around those little islands. What exactly goes on there?"

OOC: Bold means something outside of the context of the conference and usually is secret IC unless it says. This example is obviously pretty secret.

The delegate chuckled. "My the conspiracy theorists have active imaginations. You will never be shocked by the vast number of people who think the Empire is up to the most sinister of things. Well alas, to kill the fun. The islands are and shall remain a mystery. There is a military base on the islands and a medical research facility. Currently, this facility is studying cures for incurable diseases, such as STDs, cancer, Ebola, and so on and so fourth. We keep this in an air of mystery because we do use animal testing and many pro-animal rights activists would swarm the islands and hinder our efforts if they could."

At the same time, on the islands. A fresh batch of the diseased were being dropped. The C-130J had just landed and they were going through processing. In two hours they would be air dropped over the island and left to fend for themselves. Some four million diseased individuals had been dropped on the island, though at least a quarter of them had died to their diseases or suicide. Of the remaining 75%, at least 40% of them had been shot by the guards. Not many individuals remained.

"Gregorie grinned, he saw this kind of politics too many times in the CPC meeting room. This kind of bullshit was the kind only people who were backed up by a great power could attempt. It was the kind of bullshit that they didn't even try to hide."

Gregorie: Excuse me you are afraid that a bunch of civilians will somehow get through your military defenses enter your medical facilities, while somehow avoiding the military personel on the island, and try to attempt to sabotage the operation? You don't seriously expect us to digest that statement do you? Excuse me sir but we are all intellegent people here, its not just you. What is a reason to be secretive? It is not like anybody is getting condemned on this meeting, as far as i understand it, my nation has completely wiped out the whole social group of neo-nazis, some 8 million people, many of who were given to Cotland to use as target practice or sent to work in Uranium mines slowly dying from radiation poisoning, but i do not have any problems in admitting that.

"Animal rights groups are highly problematic. One such protest had some 2,000 of them outside a small research facility because we were testing a cure for bird flu, on birds." He emphasized the last part of his statement. "The nature of these islands is highly secretive and highly sensitive. Prying eyes, protestors, and the like have made numerous attempts to get to these islands but were turned around by our coast guard. And yes, the nature of our islands demands some secrecy. Scientists on our research facility are routinely under serious threat. If a single toxin of some of the viral diseases we work with spreads it could create a great catastrophe." He looked back at the representative. "No we do not fear that our facility will be breeched. We do fear the worst scenario. Perhaps a drop of Ebola or some other virus spreads, a protestor gets infected. The virus incubates for 7 to 10 days. The protestor returns to Layarteb City. You do the math."

Gregorie: I am in no way implying that you should reveal any sort of information about the islands you don't want to reveal, it is a domestic issue of your government and i just like the rest of us respect that. I was simply pointing out a mistake you made in your cover story i will refrain myself from pointing out another one you just made because it is irrelivant to the discussion. If i am not mistaken right now we are supposed to list "attrocities" commited by our nations. Sorry for interruption, please do go on.

"Hopefully i am not the only one who can see through this BS."

"A mistake we have made in our cover story? Perhaps I am not understanding you correctly. As I have explained, the island is a very dangerous piece of land. The secrecy is for a multitude of reasons. The ones I originally stated were just that. The latter ones were added as per questioning. We retain our original cover story, as you so tactfully call it, that this place is for medical research with a military base. As to the nature of any 'atrocities' on the island? There have been none. Many a nations and groups out there wish to malign the integrity of the Empire. Do you know that one group claimed that the Empire was placing LSD in the water supply in a rural New Jersey town?"

Gregorie: Disregard my prior comments please continue.

The delegate sat back and scribbled more on his notepad. What he had written this time was something illegible except to him. He knew it was going to be a long day but he was just hoping to get through his portion of it quickly. "Shall we proceed? If there are no more questions about Isla Sorna and Isla Nublar I would like to continue. We can't talk all day about a pair of islands can we?" He chuckled.

You are definitely coming out of left field here buddy.

Captain Jack Phoenix and his Hunter were stopped. Their radio buoy was floating towards the surface, only about 200 feet to go. The communication they were about to recieve was a good one for them, in a way. Tension filled the submarine as silence enveloped the entire vessel.

Finally, when the buoy reached the surface, the radio message was instantly downloaded, send to the encryption device, and translated. At the conclusion of the download, the buoy was retracted and the boat began moving forward at two knots. It would take some time for the buoy to get back to the submarine, certainly not as long as was necessary to decode the message.

Decoding was done quickly and it read this:

All vessels in blockaide around Kreynorian Hawaii. Blockaide over. Hostilities ceased. Return to port.

The tension left the boat. As the captain announced the message, everyone cheered. They were close, very close, to the brink. Lucky for them though, they didn't have to fire a single shot.

It was Bjornoya's turn to admit its questionable acts to the world. Anja stood up with a dignified grace, and calmly recalled the revolution;

"During the rise of Patriarch Rand against the dead Bjornoyan Republic, federal troops executed without trial over 1,500 high-ranking members of the old republic. The rational behind this was to quell any remaining factions whose continued existence would have left our nation in chaos. Indeed, within three months Patriarch Rand had brought order in time to save many lives of Bjornoyan citizens."

"However, the modern era with all of her great inventions has left us with a moral predicament. The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens, yet where do we draw the line between protection and tyranny? The remarkable powers that our government wields...how shall we put this to use? Against all factions with ideological differences? Are we that afraid of losing our power?"

"I admire the honesty that some nations have had here,"

Anja glared disapprovingly at the Layarteb delegate.

"However, dwelling on the past will not redeem us for the crimes our nations have committed against our own people, or people of different nations. We must set up certain limits, some basic principles that all governments must abide by. Hopefully we may not repeat the tragedies of our bloody past."

"The massacres of the past are not our concern. In early Layartebian history there were many, particularly against Tnemrotian leftovers. However, centuries have passed since then. The Empire has gone through many stages of being, from a tyranny, to a republic, and now to an Empire. The Empire perhaps does committ human rights violations but in the name of genocide, no. In the name of conquest, no. In the name of law and order, yes. Law and order is the only thing that keeps a people in line. Violators must be suppressed by any means necessary in order to protect the security and safety of everyone." She glared right back at the Bjornoyian representative and spoke up, "It is most gracious of you to admit your revolutionary squabbles but keep in mind one thing. What I speak today, about the Empire is honest. Everyone is quick to malign the Empire, quick to call it a tyranny, quick to call it oppressive. Those that do only do so because they wish to enact some sort of evil over it. The Empire is an authoritarian system. Correct. Are we repressive? Only when individuals violate the law. Freedom of Press, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, all of these exist within the Empire."

"The Allied States believes firmly in the human rights of its individual citizens to an extent. Any person has the right to live their life in privacy, without interference from the state or otherwise. Some of these rights are forfit if a person is under suspision of committing a crime, and any person who has been convicted of committing a crime waives all their rights goodbye. We believe firmly in the principles of Law and Order, and yes we will torture terrorists and execute willingly dangerous and violent criminals, but apart from that we see no reason to intervene in our citizens lives. In fact, a survey conducted by Queens University Toronto indicates that on this planet our citizens feel they are safer and happier than in most other nations."

Secret IC: There was, however, the small matter of a very heavy handed Police Force, but Celtayoshi made no secret of its brutal force to break up those causing civil unrest.

Gregorie: I hope this commettee will not state that privacy is one of human rights? This will interfere with the fundamentals of Pushkan government institution, against our law. Will this conference be reasonable for people of all political positions or just the right side of the political spectrum?

"The Bill of Rights we draw up when this conference ends will aply to all signatories. Privacy in the Divine Empire is very limited, but we have no intention of making privacy a universal right."

"We feel different, the state is there to serve the citizen, to protect the citizen, it is written over the entrance to every government building in Celtayoshi. We have to draw a line between safety of state, and comfort of citizens, we feel you have crossed this line when your citizens, the very people who elected some of you here, are followed daily by the security forces."

OOC: We do not consider ID cards invasion of privacy

The Layartebian delegate nodded as the Celtayoshan representative finished. "Privacy is a crucial fundamental to the lives of an individual. The Empire believes firmly in not interferring with the lives of its citizens unless they threaten the safety of others, unless they break the law, or unless they are plotting deeds against the government. Criminals convicted of Class A felonies lose all rights from that moment fourth, even after their punishment is complete. Class B felonies warrant the individual to be watched closely but retains most rights. Class C and Class D felonies warrant that the individual forfeit no rights following their punishment and are left alone. In light of this, the Empire wishes that the document include necessary clauses which allow the government to act in ways to defend itself and its citizens against dangerous citizens and felons." He sat back down. Perhaps this is all that shall be asked about our Empire.

Anja spoke;
"But how shall we define privacy? Bjornoya goes through great lengths to vaccinate its citizens and check for genetic defects that might lead to future health complications. This is all mandatory, yet to some it would appear as an invasion of privacy. Are there not times when it is justifiable to invade an individuals privacy for the sake of society?"
"Bjornoya constantly collects data on its citizens, however we uphold the individual's right to not have that information distributed to the general public. We view any distribution of private information collected by the government to the general public as an invasion of privacy."
"I propose that we set up the right to privacy as a restriction of the distribution of information collected by the government or private industries within their respected organizations, unless of course the individual gives consent."

Gregorie: Look at history of my nation, in over a 112 years since defeat of the Tsarist regime and creation of the Union of Communist Republics, my nation had only one act of terrorism, and that one was being planned since the very establishment of the Union. Exept for that outburst that was taken down rather quickly we had no other incidents, non, not at all. Why? Because of our policy on privacy of our citizens. If you are innocent you got nothing to hide, if you are not you are to be dealt with in time before you can commit a crime. As for privacy in those countries who call themselves the free world. From a report i read not so long ago in a Layatrebian magazine, a person in any major metropolis in most modern countries is caught on camera over a douzen times a day. Even though those cameras are not put there by the gov't but rather are a part of security of the buildings they hang from, it is still a threat to privacy of the people. All i am saying is if you want to treat lack of privacy as dirt make sure your own hands are fully clean. Revolutions have been stopped because of the policies towards privacy my gov't implements, countless lives have been spared from the bloody grip of war. It is governments job to do everything to protect its citizens and that is what my government does. Simply put privacy is relative and too much of it can lead up to deadly results. That is all i have to say.

The delegate knew the magazine. He had been quoted in it. "Ah yes that magazine article was a duesy. Yes, it is true that an individual is most likely caught on camera a dozen times a day. In the Empire it is much more as we have security cameras in major cities watching the streets. This has helped to curtail crime and combined with our police capabilities, it is obviously to see how we have so little crime in our country. However, since these cameras are in public places, not looking into the privacy of one's homes then they should not be regarded as an invasion of privacy."

Gregorie: We also do not put camera's in our citizens homes, that would be too expensive, however we take fingerprints and DNA samples of every person every five years to be able to identify them quickly if they are involved in any sort of crime, also we monitor all and any meetings and rallys, all of which have to be approved by the ministry they concern for example issues of press will concern ministry of information and so on. I guess what we need to do right now is define privacy, from my point of view government should be allowed to know all the background info on the citizens including constantly updated DNA and finger print samples, as well as monitor their movement in the nation and who lives with them. This is in no way my final say on this, because i will have to do a lot of paperwork to outline all of the aspects of what i think government should be allowed to do but i will present those during the next meeting. Does anybody else have any suggestions?

ooc: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."
-Wikipedia

Anja: "It is the government's responsibility to not only keep its citizens safe, but keep its citizens healthy. Unwarranted inspections, and constant surveillance of one's actions is simply not healthy for the individual. What does it say of us if our monitoring is based off of fear, fear of the citizenry, the very people we've sworn to protect! Our people trust us with power, and we too must have a mild trust in our own people, lest they live up to our own expectations of them."
"Sureveillance within the public domain is for the most part acceptable, but it is privacy we are concerned with. Where does society end, and the individual begin?"

The Pushkan representative had a similar system as that in the Empire. "With concern to fingerprints and DNA. At birth, the Empire takes a DNA sample, foot prints, and finger prints of all newborns. This information is placed in the national citizen registry. This allows us to catch criminals very easy and also to identify possible problems that might arise in the future."

Mumarth e-Thalith had remained silent the entire meeting, merely taking notes on not only the speakers words, but their dress, habits, and other things. He had been taking notes since he had arrived at Hawaii. Now he began speaking.

"We have a nationalized standardized passport/ID card, which enables them to leave the country, drive, fly, buy alcohol or perscription drugs (tobacco and most other drugs are illegal, and few drink alcohol)." It also enables criminal investigations. These cards are issued when citizenship is granted, and renewed every five years. A database contains the picture, name, fingerprint, and personal information of any citizen, one only needs to input the ID number. We obtain DNA samples of any suspects in serious crimes, or repeat offenders of minor crimes. As for cameras, we have them in government buildings, public spaces, and some roads for traffic purposes."

Gregorie: It seems that most of us have similar systems. We also issue cards that are needed for movement, leaving the country, buying firearms and so on. However atleast one of us seems to disagree with such methods. I am of course refering to you gospodin Ajna. If a citizen has nothing to hide he is not dangerous, he is healthy, if he has something to hide he is dangerous he is a cancer cell. A nation is a body with individuals acting as cells. In order to insure the well being of all actions must be taken to prevent those few cancer cells from doing any damage to the whole organism. You can not deny a nation a right to know what its citizens are doing, just as much as you can't deny a person a right to have his organism checked for cancer. This is the position of my government also expressed in one of my books : "Nation- An Organism"

OOC: never said anything against ID or data collection, I said before this Bjornoya collects data.

Anja:
"In Bjornoya we are not so much concerned with the government's observation of its citizens, we are concerned with how we treat that information. First, it should be a right that information collected by the government on individuals not be given to the general public."
"Second, we are concerned with how we approach this information gathered. Is the primary reason we collect this data to ensure that our citizens will not do harm to each other, or the fear that our citizens might be plotting to overthrow us? Against whom do we fear they will be dangerous; to the public or to ourselves? The point of the state collecting data should not be out of a fear that the populace will do or is doing something wrong, but rather out of a parental compassion to know one's children better."
"Constant survelliance leads the public to thinking it has done something wrong, that it is inherently guilty, therefore they must be monitored in order to prevent their naturally evil selves from acting at all. This may not be what our intent is, but it is how many have taken it."
"If we treat the state as the organism, we deny the individual its claim as an independent organism. No matter how much power we accumulate, we can never make the individual citizen as mechanically predictable as a cell. Trying to do so would be a monstrous waste of energy, let alone the de-humanizing effects caused by such a move. Are we to compare the rights of a cell to the rights of a human? The comparison is incoherent with our objectives here."
"We proposed, as many have already done within their country's, a restriction on where the government may or may not watch its citizens. The day we are so afraid of our own people that we resort to monitoring how they eat and sleep at home is the day we are no longer worthy of wielding power."
"And as I've stated before, I propose the information gathered be restricted to the organizations that have collected it, so it may not be distributed to the general public."
"We also agree that criminals who violate other's right do not deserve some rights themselves. "

The Kreynorian representative began to speak again. "In the Divine Empire, we do not put a very high value on privacy. We have also set up a compulsory system of ID cards and a national database, consisting of an individual's name, date of birth, address, ethnic background, portrait, fingerprints, and DNA. All public buildings and areas and government buildings are monitored by security cameras. All phones are tapped, computers are keylogged, and cars tracked with GPS devices. Private property may not be investigated without a proper warrant or written permission from the owner, however, warrants are very easy to come by."

The Layartebian delegate sat quietly as he looked back around the table. This whole thing is a farce. We'll never sign. He thought to himself. As he scribbled notes on his notepad nad heard the arguments left and right he kept thinking about his father, out there in a Hunter Class attack submarine, making its way back to port. He knew that his father had been on patrol duty, it was all too easy to ascertain. As he lsitened to the Kreynorian representative speak he couldn't help but think just how close the two countries had just come to near total annihilation. Will they ask about the Galapagos or the prisons? He continued to think, hoping to keep his response ready in case he had to speak.

"We must not become overly focused on one topic. Religous freedoms, minority rights, conditions of law enforcement and prisons, access to medical care, and all sorts of important topics have gone unmentioned. We for example, allow complete religious freedom, and all citizens have the same rights. Medical care, while somewhat below standards in India (ooc-after this and poland are calmed down, bubonic plague will erupt in india), reforms are on the rise, and childhood vaccinations are at an all time high. As for our prisons, they are among the most humane in the nation. To demonstrate this fact, we have been allowed to offer a tour of Medium Security Facility 06 in Arabia to two members from every delegation present, except the Huahinians. For those nations less interested in opening facilites to international visitors, perhaps they would show pictures of the facilities. Perhaps some images of the more infamous facilities in Layarteb, for example, would help end the rumors."

OOC: italized text=Gregorie's thoughts
normal text=Gregorie speaking

IC:

This is gonna go nothere Layatrebian representative is getting attacked but he doesn't care. He has a coverstory and nobody can have factual evidience that its a lie because i doubt that anybody will be allowed to go to the islands and see for themselves. In the end its justa waste of time, all the layatrebian has to do is to not budge and expecting him to budge from our demands is the same as expecting a mountain to move if a person kicked it. But it might be useful to kick a little bit to test the limits of this man's patience, if the man was to get up and leave that will proove to me that my educated guess is correct and he is lying.

Gregorie: I agree with Elephantum, would Layatreb allow inspection of its facilities, we of course expect it to be restricted for security purposes and of course offer our facilities to be inspected as well.

"Images are useless, they can be taken of certain areas only, and there can be time to clean all these areas beforehand, even if there are delegates coming to visit. Also, under no circumstances are foreign nationals permitted near any Celtayoshi Maximum Security or Political Prisions.

As for religious freedoms, we have only one official state religion, that is Christianity, and although all other faiths can be practised openly and freely, the law forbids any non-Christian Religious Schools."

The Minister then steps back and finds a number of sheets, containing statisitics,

"The current Religious breakdown of Celtayoshi is as follows:

93% Chrisitian (any denomination)
4% Jewish
1% Muslim
0.5% Hindu
0.3% Other
1% No Religion Given.

As you can see there is a predominantly Christian background to Celtayoshi.

With regards to Medical Care, the state will provide free Health Care for all people except where the health care is for cosmetic reasons, or similar non-essential reasons. Abortions are illegal execpt under certain strict conditions, and Euthanasia is forbbiden totally."

ALL OOC: Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights)
I agree, this is going no-where at the moment. We cannot condemn each-other of human rights violations since we have not set up a universal standard yet, so stop worrying about the secret facilities, those can be condmened after this gets over with (if they are found-out)
Second, "This is what our country does, therefore it is right" or "The state has a right to..." are not viable arguments. The first is blatant rationalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29) for existing structures. The other doesn't make much sense because we have not yet defined what rights people have, and the state consists of people.

"Correct you are sir. We will not allow inspections of our facilities. The Empire has never signed any contract of international law and therefore is in no violations. We have never signed a contract of human rights so we are not in violation. Allowing a foreign nation, particularly hostile ones," he looked directly at the Elephanti representative, "or even 'on the fence' ones," he looked at the Pushkan representative, "access to top secret facilities so that they can spy is absurd!" He caught his breath and looked at the eyes in the room. "There shall be no inspections of any Layartebian facilities as you have right or just cause to view, inspect, spy, what have you, will these facilities. The Celtayoshi policy is the same as ours and we respect it. You have no basis for inspections nor shall you recieve any." They really expect me to allow them to come to these places to spy? Was I born yesterday! He thought to himself. "Perhaps we should take heed to the Bjornoyian representative. You condemn me, whether you have overly stated it or not, yet there is no standard. Perhaps you should set the standard and the rules before ye cast judgement. I understand the concept of burden of proof and no one believes the guilty but there are, in effect, no rules. Now, moving along. Abortion is illegal except if the woman is a victim of rape, the child will danger the life of the mother and itself, or if it shall be born retarded. As a means of birth control, tough luck. In the case of rape, the rapist will pay the bills and suffer temendously. Religion. The government is agnostic. We do not sponsor a state religion nor do we allow religion to intertwine with politics. There is total separation of church and state. Health care is the responsibility of the individual or employer. Any employer who hires full time workers must provide health care. If the individual wants it or not, it is up to them. As far as minority rights? Everyone has the same rights, regardless of the color of their skin. If you want to break the law, regardless of the color of your skin, you will be punished as you should be."

OOC: Excuse my english what does "on the fence" mean?


Gregorie: I was simply expressing my opinion. Yes it is true that there is no international standard yet. As i stated before your nation can in no way be condemned, all we did was ask you, we did not pressure anyone. We offered to show you what we have and asked for that same favor in return. We did not demand anything. Okay let us continue. Union of Communist Republics religious distribution goes as following.

"Gregorie took out a stack of papers out of his suitcase and passed them around"

Atheist: 72%
Pushkan Orthodox: 16%
Other: 12%

Gregorie: Church is an entity independent of the government and like any other social organization has to submit a report on its activities to an appropriet ministry and has to pay annual taxes as well as pay for expanding its legitemacy patent every 5 years. This is the system in my country and it is quiet efficient

OOC: On the fence means undecided.

"I apologize, my English is not perfect. I meant to offer a tour of our facility. I also suggested that making pictures from facilities that raise suspicion among other groups would be an alternative to allowing others to visit, because of the security reasons you listed above."

"The Empire cannot allow inspection teams and will not allow them. There is no jurisdiction nor justification. These prisons and research facilities are very dangerous to the people that operate in them daily. Should the worst occur and a foreign dignitary caught in the middle of it, things could get out of hand fast. It is a risk we cannot take."

OOC: Sorry to leave without warning. I'm back now.

IC: The represntative rolled his eyes. This was getting nowhere fast, and disentegrating into petty arguments.

He said in a very fast voice, "Attendance in and donations to the Orthodox Christian Church of Kreynoria are compulsory. Church and government are very integrated, and we like it that way. Religious freedom is not believed to be a right in Kreynoria."

OOC-as i was thinking of holding an E2 version of the geneva protocol (not the same as the convention, deals with WMDs and is the basis for most of the laws banning first strikes with WMDs), I'll probably come up with a basic document, and have people bicker and argue over it, as here we're bickering over a document that doesnt even exist yet.

LOL that's pretty funny. The LON failed but yet here we are having a Geneva thing and a Human Rights thing, basically what it should have done...pretty amusing.

ANyhow...where was I?

IC

The delegate took a sip of the water in front of him. He saw that the steam of the conference was starting to dissipate. Human rights was a core issue of the world and though he did not have any actual plans on signing any documents, he did, nonetheless, want to hear everyone out. "Perhaps we ought to go around the room. We have many distinguished leaders here. What is everyone's definition of human rights? Perhaps we can have everyone lay their definition out and then, leave the debate for afterwards? I know many of us here are confused as to the positions of others. I know my position is confusing. Perhaps this will clear up the troubles?"

Anja:
"Bjornoya holds these as inalienable, non-derogable human rights:
1) The right to life: that is neither the government nor the citizenry deny any individual his or her right to be alive. This is a right against murder, that is killing someone without due process of law or other institutionalized reason.
2) The right to an adequate quality of life: an extenstion of the first right. No-one shall deny an individual the right to food, water, shelter, or society. It is an individual's right to not merely be kept alive, but to have an adequate life.
3) Freedom from torture: an extension of the right to an adequate quality of life; an individual has the right to not be but through unusual and extreme punishment.
4) Right to education: an individual shall not be denied his or her right to an education, especially when that education is necessary to live within one's society.
5) The right to name and identity: No individual shall be denied a name or a factual description of his or her existence.
6) Right to prosecution through law: no individual shall be restrained or punished without being put through judicial institutions.
7) The right to be free from retroactive application of law: that is and individual cannot be convicted and punished for a crime that he or she did before the law was put into effect.

Anja's voice grew more powerful and condescending:
"These seem to be rights that need not be confirmed through flimsy authorized documentation. If your society believes in torture and death without some form of judiciary process, we have a problem."
"If a government fails to uphold these rights, it is not only justifiable, but obligatory that other nations restrain these governments from harming their own citizens."
"And as many have stated before, if an individual denies another individual of any of these human rights, that individual revokes his own human rights. These rights are meant for humans, but those who commit such crimes against humanity are not human. They are sub-human; beasts and should be treated accordingly."

ooc:alright, I think these are pretty damn reasonable. any questions just ask. and for those of you so adamant about not signing, the UN declaration makes the basic ones obligitory, that is nations that did not abide by these rules were bound to them even though they did not sign.
and that bit about declaring war over human rights violations should be very appealing to the larger nations who want to go to war but do not have a justifiable reason yet.

The Cottish representative listened to the Bjornoyan suggestions for human rights, but there were something that wasn't quite right. He was privvy to information about the secret facilities in Cotland, and the third and sixth points were something that was "violated" in the facilities. He had heard some rumors regarding the conferences outcome to be mandatory for all nations, regardless of whether they signed or not. That was one thing that Cotland would not stand for, and it would be more than happy to take up arms against any aggressor nation that tried to force their ideology upon Cotland. Simple as that. Anyway, the way the talks were unfolding, it didn't seem that the Empire would sign...

"Might I propose a few minor changes?"

"Perhaps the right to society may be edited include 'without due process of law', as some nations use solitary punishment. In a similar vein, freedom from torture may need a similar addition. While we no longer use torture as a punishment, there are many who call for its legalization."

A moment later, his pager buzzed. Not his regular pager, but the pager.

"Excuse me, I will be back in one moment."

He stepped out into the hall, and after a few minutes, returned pale and somewhat shocked.

"There has been an incident, and I unfortuantely must beg your leave. In my stead will be Alayziah al-Tikriti. She is the second undersecretary of Foriegn Affairs, and has the authority to sign the treaty in the name of Elephantum."

"You are excused." said the Kreynorian. Now on the Divine Empire's human rights.

1) Right to life. As in Bjornoya, this is a right against murder and execution without trial. Someone who violates another's right to life has forfeited their own and is to be put to death.
2) Right to a reasonable quality of life. This right protects Kreynorian citizens from denial of food, water, clothing, education, and shelter as well as freedom from torture.
3) Right to a fair trial under due process of the law. Citizens cannot be punished without a fair trial.
4) Right to own property.
5) Right to name and identity.

The stated rights are inalienable and may not be revoked. Should a government deny our citizens these rights, they have an obligation to replace that government with one that respects these rights.

Gregorie: You all sound offly imperialistic, this is like saying that if a Kreyonian goes to Union of Communist Republics and doesn't get one of those rights Union of Communist Republics government is obligated to change its age old laws just for the purpose of making the Kreyonian feel like he is home. This is basically an imperialistic proposition that attempts to stain my governments sovereignty. If this conference will end up concluding that a document with such a proposition is just i will not sign it and in fact i will strongly recommend during my report to the Communist Party Committee to boy cot this conferenss. This conference has for some reason taken focus on the capitalist ways, ignoring the advantages a communist type government system provides. Rights given to people in Union of Communist Republics are as follows:

1. Right to serve the matherland as a part of armed forces
2. Right to assemble as long as the assemblies are approved by the government
3. Right to vote for local representatives
4. Right to racial equality
5. Freedom of Religion

This is only the essentials of course.

"In Celtayoshi we have no complete set of guidlines, instead, as with most laws in Celtayoshi, our human rights are based on a series of Acts passed throughout the years. However, most notably there is the 'Rights of Person Act (amendment 7)' and I will go over the most important parts of it as follows.

1/ No citizen shall be held for a period of more than one year without trial.
2/ Every citizen has the right to the protection of the law.
3/ Every citizen has the right own and protect, with force or otherwise, hsi or her own property.
4/ Every citizen has the right to vote in the Celtayoshi State Elections (be aware: This section is a bit blurred, due to technicalities involving territories)
5/ Every citizen has the right to practice their own religion, provided it does not harm another person.
6/ Every citizen has the right to live life within the constraints of the law, to the fullest they possibly can.
7/ No citizen shall have to accept foul or abusive behavour towards themselves.

As I said earlier, this law covers only some points. Note carefully the wording of citizen. Any convicted crinimal in Celtayoshi does not classify as a citizen, and hence are 'protected' by another law."

OOC: More information regarding Human Rights:
Some people view human rights as being an "imperialistic" attempt at forcing one nations' ideology over another. If this is the case the most powerful nations should be all for alloting human rights over smaller, less advanced regions instead of being afraid of the consequences within their own regions. This is a chance to become more powerful culturally, and culture is just as important a role within nations as military and scientific advancements, if not more so.
Second, I emphasize again that law needs to be taken into accunt when approaching human rights. The rights against murder and torture are meant for the innocent. The reprecusions of not agreeing to this right would mean a general cultural favoritism for nations with this right from nations without this right. It is supporting a basic human want for stability and predictability.
And for all communist/Marxist nations, instead of glorifying the nation or state (which is a rather conservative Hegelian POV) might I remind you of Marx's quote, "From each according to their ability to each according to their need" Marx's entire argument is that capitalism infringes on basic human rights (although he does not use the term) to an adequate quality of life. This would be a reasonable argument.
Also notable are the RPing oppurtunities present from having this document.

"The Empire may lack a constitution but it does not lack a definition for human rights. All citizens, and I emphasize citizens as I explained what happens to criminals. All citizens are given the right to live their lives as they see fit, to worship whatever deity they wish, to manage their affairs as they wish, and to do as they wish. Free media is not part of that but the Empire does not control all media outlets. Voting is included but on local levels. Towns, villages, cities, counties, and so on of such a small nature do have free and fair elections. State governors, provincal governors, justices, and the like are appointed based on recommendations and qualifications. All citizens have the right to have a fair trial in the judgement of their crimes and should they be innocent of any crimes they are charged with, then they will not be held nor should the matter continue. If they are guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, then they shall face punishment. If they are guilty but actually turn out to be innocent, then an investigation commences. Should it be found they were tried and punished though they were not guilty of the crime, then they shall recieve compensation and those who testified through lies shall be punished for the same crime they were forcing.

"The Empire is not a land of double standards nor is it a land for complete tolerance. Democratic ideals exist on the local levels. Authoritarian ideals exist higher up. The Empire is authoritarian and thus citizens are allowed to live their lives as they see fit provided THEY do not violate the safety, secuirty, and rights of another individual. When they do so, they lose their own rights."

Conferences always die...why?

ooc: I gave up when we couldn't agree to have a freagin 'right to life'

ooc: I gave up when we couldn't agree to have a freagin 'right to life'

We need to go around and iron this out. This is a great RP and it isn't a war or anything...by the way, I confirmed your order.

Gregorie: You all sound offly imperialistic, this is like saying that if a Kreyonian goes to Union of Communist Republics and doesn't get one of those rights Union of Communist Republics government is obligated to change its age old laws just for the purpose of making the Kreyonian feel like he is home. This is basically an imperialistic proposition that attempts to stain my governments sovereignty. If this conference will end up concluding that a document with such a proposition is just i will not sign it and in fact i will strongly recommend during my report to the Communist Party Committee to boy cot this conferenss. This conference has for some reason taken focus on the capitalist ways, ignoring the advantages a communist type government system provides. Rights given to people in Union of Communist Republics are as follows:

1. Right to serve the matherland as a part of armed forces
2. Right to assemble as long as the assemblies are approved by the government
3. Right to vote for local representatives
4. Right to racial equality
5. Freedom of Religion

This is only the essentials of course.

"Oh, excuse me. I meant, should our home government deny these rights, the people have a right to replace it. And we in the Divine Empire don't believe in freedom of religion."

"Oh, excuse me. I meant, should our home government deny these rights, the people have a right to replace it. And we in the Divine Empire don't believe in freedom of religion."

"You bring up an interesting point." He coughed. "Excuse me." He took a sip of water. "The place of revolution. Should we go to the thinkers of the past, some who declare revolution as completely unacceptable such as Thomas Hobbes or shall we go with Locke or some other thinkers who believe revolution has its place? This is an interesting topic of which I doubt any of us have given serious thought. We in the Empire believe a little revolution every now and then is healthy," he smirked, "after all, that is how the failed Republic was replaced. However, revolution should be regarded as a special topic. A government must and should do everything in its power to stop a revolution, we believe. If the government cannot, the revolution will succeed and its weakness overthrown. If a government can repell a revolution then, by all means, it is strong enough government. If it has trouble repelling a revolution then its days are numbered. Should it choose not to learn from the ills of the revolution, it will fall, eventually."

"But remember, a strong government isn't necessarily a good government. And a revolution isn't righteous because it succeeds. Governments are good when they good, but strength is a must for a good government. That said, for example, a repressive military regime using mass terror tactics to stay in power is not a good regime, despite its power over its subjects. And a bloody revolutionary group that overthrows the government but tortures minorities to death is not righteous. But of course, righteous revolutionary groups need success against the un-righteous government, or it fails, obviously," said the Kreynorian rep, taking a sip from his water bottle.