NationStates Jolt Archive

ooc: this is my first attempt at a store front, comments and suggestions will be appreciated

IC: Over the past few years, the People's Republic of Mannatopia, under the guidance of our outstanding Premier, has been building up its military. Our people's factories have finished meeting our current needs, and are now able to build vehicles for other "client" states. These are vehicles of the highest quality in the world, as our ingeius engineers have adapted many new...(propaganda continues for another 20 minutes or so)

Our Great and powerful army now comprises:
290,000 combat troops
20,000 elite paratroopers
150 M1A3 tanks
700 Stingray II tanks
150 M1128 Stryker MGS
200 M2A4 IFV
1500 BMP-3 IFV
300 JF-17A Lightning
75 IL-76MFA Assualt Candid
700,000 logistical personnel


M1A3
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Advanced Research
Crew: 3 (Commander, Gunner, Driver)
Weight: 72 tons (144,000 lbs) fully loaded
Length: 32 ft 6 in
Width: 12 ft
Speed: 40 mph
Range: 265 mi
Armament: 125 mm main gun (capable of firing AT-11 Sniper ATGM), 7.62 mm coaxial, .50 cal. commander’s gun
Price: $4,500,000
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/abrams-122.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1a2-001.jpg
Description: When Mannatopia was refused sale of M1A2 tanks, they stole the blueprints. Mannatopian engineers have since upgraded it, dubbing the new vehicle the M1A3. An automatic loader has been added, removing the need for a fourth crew member, and many systems from the Russian T-90 tank have been added, such as the main gun. This gun is capable of firing the AT-11 Sniper ATGM through the main gun, giving it the ability to accurately destroy armor at ranges exceeding that of other tanks, although not as many of these missiles can be carried as normal tank ammunition, so normal ammo is still the preferred choice in battle. For added protection, Mannatopian engineers have added explosive reactive armor, again adapted from the T-90.


Stingray II
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Armored Vehicles
Crew: 4 (Commander, Gunner, Driver, loader)
Weight: 20 tons (50,000 lbs) fully loaded
Length: 30 ft 5 in
Width: 8 ft 10 in
Speed: 45 mph
Range: 300 mi
Armament: 105 mm main gun with 24 rounds, 7.62 mm coaxial, 7.62 mm cal. commander’s gun
Price: $1,600,000
http://www.wapahani.com/image28.jpg
Description: When Mannatopian spies were stealing the plans for the M1A2, they came across blueprints for many other vehicles, some of which have become more important to the military than even the M1A3. One of these was the Stingray II light tank. It was produced nearly “as is” for the Mannatopian Army, and is currently the most numerous tank in the arsenal. This is because it is much cheaper than the M1A3; in fact, you can buy almost 3 Stingrays for the price of one M1A3. It is far less capable in many respects. Its standard armor can only protect against 7.62 mm armor piercing rounds, although Mannatopian engineers have added limited appliqué armor plating, so it can now withstand .50 caliber armor piercing shells. It is armed with a far less powerful 105 mm gun and only 24 rounds of ammunition, and no auto loader. The gun cannot fire an ATGM, but it can still defeat 90% of current armored vehicles. It does have an advantage of most other tanks in speed, and its fire control system is very accurate.


M1128 Stryker MGS
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Advanced Research
Crew: 3 (Commander, Gunner, Driver)
Weight: 20.5 tons (41,000 lbs) fully loaded
Length: 22 ft 11 in
Width: 8 ft 11 in
Height: 8 ft 8 in
Speed: 60 mph
Range: 330 mi
Armament: 105 mm main gun, 7.62 mm MG, .50 cal. commander’s gun
Price: $4,100,000
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/stryker-MGSinSand.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/stryker-MGS-firing.jpg
Description: As the Mannatopian military grows, we find ourselves capable of handling more than just homeland defense. To that end, a force was needed that could respond faster, and with an element of surprise, while still having significant firepower. Recently, our engineers have come up with the answer: a modified form of the American M1128 Stryker Mobile Gun System (MGS). This is a lightweight, wheeled armored vehicle, armed with the 105 mm gun tube from the original M1, and fitted with an autoloader to reduce crew and size requirements. The original vehicle could barely withstand .50 caliber armor piercing shell fire, so explosive reactive armor has been added, allowing the vehicle to survive attacks from RPGs. The key to its surprise is its ability to be air-dropped. The original vehicle was sized to fit in medium cargo aircraft, and Mannatopian engineers have added the parachute system from the cancelled American M-8 AGS.


M2A4
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Advanced Research
Crew: 3 + 6 infantry
Weight: 20 tons (55,000 lbs) fully loaded
Length: 21 ft 2 in
Width: 10 ft 6 in
Height: 10 ft
Speed: 40 mph
Range: 250 mi
Armament: 30 mm modified aircraft cannon, 7.62 mm coaxial
Price: $3,700,000
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2-bradley-ds.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/bushmaster-dvic484.jpg
Description: Mannatopian engineers took the design of the M2A3 as a base, but they had to do a fair amount to it. Mannatopia lacked a suitable ATGM to use in place of the TOW missiles normally found on the A3, so to give it a limited anti-tank capability, they modified the main gun. In place of the 25 mm chain gun, a modified aircraft cannon was installed, firing depleted uranium shells at about 2000 rounds per minute. This installation is not without problems; first off, the ammunition is exhausted in about 15 seconds of continuous fire, secondly the added weight of the gun and ammunition reduced the vehicles speed and range. The cost of the vehicle also was drastically increased. In return, the M2A4 can destroy almost any armored vehicle it encounters. The crew is very well protected thanks to the already excellent armor combined with the addition of explosive reactive armor.


BMP-3
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Armored Vehicles
Crew: 3 + 7 infantry
Weight: 18.7 tons (37,400 lbs) fully loaded
Length: 20 ft 3 in
Width: 9 ft 5 in
Height: 7 ft 4 in
Speed: 43 mph
Range: 375 mi
Armament: 100 mm main gun, 30 mm coaxial cannon, 7.62 mm coaxial, 7.62 mm anti-air
Price: $190,000
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmp-3_9.jpg
Description: It quickly became obvious that the Mannatopia was not going to be able to purchase enough M2A4 IFVs to fill the Army’s requirements, so an alternative was purchased. The BMP-3 is a far cheaper combat vehicle, but with many of the same capabilities as the M2A4. The 100 mm main gun gives it limited anti-armor capability, but more importantly, it can be used as a support weapon for infantry in battle, destroying obstacles, and firing on enemy positions. The 30 mm cannon provide excellent support ability against lightly armored vehicles, while the 7.62 mm guns provide support fire against enemy infantry. Explosive reactive armor has once again been added by Mannatopian engineers, allowing the BMP-3 increased combat survivability.


JF-17A Lightning
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Aircraft/High Performance Division
Crew: 1 pilot
Empty Weight: 14,200 lbs
Maximum Take-Off Weight: 27,500 lbs
Normal Take-Off Weight: 20,000 lbs
Length: 49 ft 11 in
Wing Span: 31 ft
Height: 15 ft 8 in
Engine: 1 x Klimov RD-93 turbofan 18,300 lbs thrust
Speed: Mach 1.6 (915 knots) at altitude
Range: 1,100 mi
Service Ceiling: 50,000 ft
Weapon Load: 8,000 lbs
Armament: 1 x 30 mm cannon based on GSh-6, 7 hard points (six can carry AAMs)
Air-To-Air Missiles: AIM-7M Sparrow medium range (max 4), AIM-9L Sidewinder short range (max 6)
Air-To-Ground Weapons: range of ASM and bombs (max 5)
Price: $17,000,000
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/fc-1_03.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/fc-1_06.jpg
Description: Mannatopia’s first indigenously built fighter, the JF-17A Lightning is a modified version of the Chinese JF-17 Thunder. It retains that crafts outstanding flight performance, which in most respects is equal to that of an F-16, but at a more affordable price. Its electronic systems are equal to an F-16, and its control system is a mix of manual and fly-by-wire, taking the best of both to enhance the crafts maneuverability. The main modifications are in its armament. First, the Chinese AAMs have been replaced with the best Mannatopia currently has to offer, Sparrows and Sidewinders. The original 23 mm cannon was been replaced with Mannatopia’s 30 mm cannon (the unmodified cannon that the M2A4 gun is based from) based off of the GSh-6. This was done to allow the firing of the depleted uranium anti-armor shells, vastly increasing the aircraft’s close air support capability. The drawback of this is the increased size of the new gun, fuel supply and therefore range was sacrificed in favor the cannon.


IL-76MFA Assault Candid
Manufacturer: Mannatopia Aircraft/Large Class Division
Crew: 7 (2 pilots, 1 flight engineer, 1 navigator, 1 radio operator, 2 cargo handlers)
Empty Weight: 222,665 lbs
Maximum Take-Off Weight: 440,925 lbs
Max Payload Weight: 120,000 lbs
Troop capacity: 150 infantry or 135 paratroops
Length: 174 ft
Wing Span: 165 ft 8 in
Height: 48 ft 5 in
Engine: 4 x Aviadvigatel PS90AN turbofans, 35,275 lbs thrust each
Speed: 460 knots)
Range: 3,200 mi with standard payload
Service Ceiling: 48,000 ft
Price: $40,000,000
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/il-76-73p06.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/il-76-73p01.jpg
Description: While the Mannatopian military is quite capable of defending the homeland, it has long been lacking in an ability to project force abroad. This is mainly due to a lack of transport capacity; the military simply did not have the ability to bring troops and equipment anywhere. This fact has changed now that Mannatopian factories have begun construction of the IL-76MFA Assault Candid. The design has been modified to allow airdrop of vehicles, such as the M1128 Stryker airborne tank. This aircraft was picked because of its price, $40M, while newer designs such as the C-17 are priced in the $200M range, something the Mannatopian people cannot yet afford. The limitations are obvious, while the aircraft is long enough to accommodate 2 or 3 of most Mannatopian vehicles; it is only wide and tall enough to carry one in the rear. All vehicles except the M1A3 can be carried, though only the M1128 is configured for airdrop. In addition, the Assault Candid can also carry a large number of infantry or paratroops.


We await your orders, and our people will build you mighty vehicles, should you so ask.

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OOC: I don't know that explosive-reactive armour is going to do much to change the Stringray's protection against kinetic-energy weapons. ERA, unless I'm really missing something, protects against HEAT warheads, and I doubt that many .50" rounds thrust liquid-metal jets against a target on impact...
On the M1A3, it seems that apparently down-grading the gun might be, well, a bad idea. More than that, an autoloader isn't always a good thing. It typically means that munitions must be stored above the turret ring, causing confinement and vulnerability: Russian tanks with 125mm auto-loading guns such as the T-72 are perportedly prone to blowing-up when hit because the ammunition is somewhat exposed. I really have no idea whether or not it would be realistically possible to convert an Abrams to make use of an auto-loader. Hopefully someone else can chip-in, there.
I don't know about the 30mm gun's rate of fire, either. That seems a little unwise, and likely to cause excessive wear, but I suppose if you can afford it... still, might be a pain in intense combat, but that's an IC choice, I suppose.
Finally, I'd say that putting ERA on an infantry combat vehicle like the BMP-3 is realllly questionable... imagine if the infantry disembark and them somebody fires a super-cheap RPG at the BMP, which must have slowed-down to allow the troops out. BOOM! ERA reacts and all your disembarked men are dead, no?
Sorry if this isn't coherent, I'm afraid that I'm rather drunk.

We would like to purchase 50 BMP-3s for
$9,500,000. We would like to ask if we can have the 500,000 cut off from the purchase.

We would like to purchase 50 BMP-3s for
$9,500,000. We would like to ask if we can have the 500,000 cut off from the purchase.

Mannatopia is willing to negotiate prices with friendly, or as we call them, "client" states. We accept the offer of $9,000,000 for 50 BMP-3s. The vehicles are on their way.

Money is being Wired right now. Thank you. Perhaps you can invest your companies into building Airborne Vehicles.

OOC: I don't know that explosive-reactive armour is going to do much to change the Stringray's protection against kinetic-energy weapons. ERA, unless I'm really missing something, protects against HEAT warheads, and I doubt that many .50" rounds thrust liquid-metal jets against a target on impact...
On the M1A3, it seems that apparently down-grading the gun might be, well, a bad idea. More than that, an autoloader isn't always a good thing. It typically means that munitions must be stored above the turret ring, causing confinement and vulnerability: Russian tanks with 125mm auto-loading guns such as the T-72 are perportedly prone to blowing-up when hit because the ammunition is somewhat exposed. I really have no idea whether or not it would be realistically possible to convert an Abrams to make use of an auto-loader. Hopefully someone else can chip-in, there.
I don't know about the 30mm gun's rate of fire, either. That seems a little unwise, and likely to cause excessive wear, but I suppose if you can afford it... still, might be a pain in intense combat, but that's an IC choice, I suppose.
Finally, I'd say that putting ERA on an infantry combat vehicle like the BMP-3 is realllly questionable... imagine if the infantry disembark and them somebody fires a super-cheap RPG at the BMP, which must have slowed-down to allow the troops out. BOOM! ERA reacts and all your disembarked men are dead, no?
Sorry if this isn't coherent, I'm afraid that I'm rather drunk.

ooc: First, I don't consider the new gun for the M1A3 a downgrade. A 125 mm gun can impart more energy on a round than a 120 mm gun can, the US has always made up for this deficiency by having an outstanding fire control system that always our tanks to destroy russian ones before they can respond. My tank combines the capabilities of the American fire control with the more powerful russian gun. As for the autoloader, I am sticking with it. It gives a great advantage in increased firepower, an advantage that is made greater by the accurate fire control. Yes, there is a survivability trade off, but you can't get something for nothing ;) . Also, I think that the Russians modified the design of the T-90 to help with that problem, after seeing so many blow up in Desert Storm.
Second, the ERA on the Stingray. You are right, ERA is mainly for HEAT rounds, and works by causing them to detonate early. I am going to replace the ERA on the Stingray with aplique armor plating.
Thirdly, the M2A4 30 mm gun rate of fire is downgraded from the normal 4000-6000 rpm. I wanted to make it lower, but it is still a converted gun, so it can't be too low. Also, it is intentianally not a perfect system, it goes through ammunition very quickly, and would obviously suffer from wear and tear. If it did not suffer these problems, I would almost consider it godmodding, as it would be ableto combat large numbers of tanks by just spraying in their general direction. With these restrictions, it can't do that.
Lastly, the ERA on the infantry combat vehicles is staying. You are right, it does pose a risk for the infantry, in fact I have read cases of infantry dieing because of ERA once they dismount their vehicle. It is staying because of the philosophy of the Mannatopian government, which is more like China or North Korea. As far as this government is concerned, foot soldiers are easy to replace, the vehicle is harder :D .
Thanks for the comments, they were very good.

IC: Oddly, our factories have been receiving concerns from abroad over our liberal use of ERA. While we do not understand the concern, as anything to increase the survivability of a vehicle is a good thing, we are willing to compromise. Any nation may request the removal of the ERA from vehicles they purchase, and we will discuss modified prices with those countries.

are you serious or is this role-play. i mean are you really wiring money? if you are how do you do this

oh and whats the arcade?

OOC: its just RPed but its based on you NS budget. i can give you a link to some NS calculaters that work the budget out

oh and whats the arcade?

OOC: no idea what your talking about.

NS budget?

Money is being Wired right now. Thank you. Perhaps you can invest your companies into building Airborne Vehicles.

IC: The Mannatopian factories are the people's, and do not belong to any capitalist "company." Our engineers are looking into the prospect of airborne vehicles, but it is not a priority for our military, as we lack any large cargo aircraft to carry them. As you have been a faithful "client," we shall increase the priority of our airborne projects.

ooc: I don't have time tonight to do the research and write-ups for any new vehicles. Check back tomorrow night IRL time, and I should have at least one airborne vehilce, a cargo aircraft, and maybe some other stuff. Sorry for the delay.

NS budget?

as seen here

http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/

OOC: Ah, very good. So long as you recognise the trade-offs OOC then I really have nothing to complain about. Good work :) Unfortunately Beth Gellert is a bit more like Israel than North Korea in our valuation of personnel vs. equipment, and we can't afford the luxury of throwing away lives. Even though we have five billion of them! We're the good kind of communists...
All right, I'll stop bothering your thread, now!

OOC:
The Abrams already stores all it's main gun ammo in the turret, in 2 massively armoured boxes at the rear of the turret and there is actually a RL autoloader design for it. The difference between the russian 125mm and the 120/L44 of the Abrams is actually pretty minimal, the 120 has a slight edge due to better muntions and a more efficent APFSDS design. For a true upgrade the newer 120mm/L55 would be the best choice from existing RL guns but thats just me.
For the Stingray II these days it would actually be possible to mount one of the newer low weight/recoil 120mm guns but then again there isn't wrong with the 105mm gun system (for which there are missiles available).
As for the regunning of the bradley personally i would have gone with a 35 or 40mm gun as opposed to something similar to the GAU-8 or GSH-30-6.

These thoughts are all entirely random and ignorable.
Anyway kudo's for designing realistic vehicles and resiting the OMG ETC PWNZ GUN OF UBERNESS WITH DIAMOND ARMOUR BUCKYBALLS TANK!!!! urge.

ooc:so wait a second, you removed a crewmember from the tank, put in an autoloader. Thats nice, higher firing rate in all, but what happens when the tank breaks down? you only have 3 members to fix it, unlike the original's four. if your going to put in an autoloader, do it Merkava style, and keep the fourth member. course, thats just me... :D

ooc:so wait a second, you removed a crewmember from the tank, put in an autoloader. Thats nice, higher firing rate in all, but what happens when the tank breaks down? you only have 3 members to fix it, unlike the original's four. if your going to put in an autoloader, do it Merkava style, and keep the fourth member. course, thats just me... :D

ooc: actually, the Merkava is an extremely odd and abnormal tank design. Virtually all tanks in the world fitted with auto-loaders have only 3 crew (the Merkava is the only one with 4 that I have heard of). In addition, the Merkava is the only tank that I know of with a built in morter, and one of the only ones that can carry a small squad of infantry in the tank configuration. These are all good features, but far from the norm.

OOC: As Strathdonia said, well done. I'm always a fan of NS retrofits of existing systems, myself. Hell, I still use a glorified M113 as my primary APC. I have a couple of firms who might be interested in cooperative development projects after seeing the M1A3, though I've got to head out the door right now. Will respond with those when I get back in.

OOC: As Strathdonia said, well done. I'm always a fan of NS retrofits of existing systems, myself. Hell, I still use a glorified M113 as my primary APC. I have a couple of firms who might be interested in cooperative development projects after seeing the M1A3, though I've got to head out the door right now. Will respond with those when I get back in.
ooc: i might be interested in a codevelopment project, but I am also running out the door right now...

turns out I am still going to be here for another hour and a half. Guess I will start work on an airborne vehicle.

bump :headbang:
ooc: M1128 Stryker MGS added, so we now have an airborne combat vehicle. I am going to be goneforthe next few hours (probably six or so), but I will check back and continue working on new vehicles as long as my country's budget allows
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OOC:
The Abrams already stores all it's main gun ammo in the turret, in 2 massively armoured boxes at the rear of the turret and there is actually a RL autoloader design for it. The difference between the russian 125mm and the 120/L44 of the Abrams is actually pretty minimal, the 120 has a slight edge due to better muntions and a more efficent APFSDS design. For a true upgrade the newer 120mm/L55 would be the best choice from existing RL guns but thats just me.


OOC:

The american tanks also use high-pressure gun chambers as opposed to low-pressure ones like the Russians use.

The ammo boxes in the back are not "massively armored". In fact, the rear of the turret has very thin armor. Instead, it's equipped with blowout panels on the top of the turret. If the rear turret is hit, then they pop off and the explosion is redirected upward. You loose the ammunition, but the at least you still have the tank.

true the external armor is fairly weak but with the blow out pannels and fairly heavy internarl protection it keeps the rest of the tank safe, i was perhaps unclear in my typing.
interestingly enough during Desert storm the ammo bins were one of the few places an Abrams' 120mm gun could penetrate on another Abrams (well according to Tom Clancy anyway and we all know how muhc of a neutral observer he is).

How's that for an arse cover :) (pretty poor even by my standards)

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update: JF-17A Lightning fighter now available
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(looking for business)
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heh, Mannatopia used to be the name of the puppet I used to have. It got deleted. Actually I'm not sure if it was Mannotopia or Mannatopia. I now think it's Mannotopia. So never mind :)

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bumpedy bump bump bump

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IL-76MFA Assualt Candid added

interestingly enough during Desert storm the ammo bins were one of the few places an Abrams' 120mm gun could penetrate on another Abrams (well according to Tom Clancy anyway and we all know how muhc of a neutral observer he is).


:p True

How much would it cost to buy manufacturing rights to the M1A3, BMP3, their ammunition, and the AT-11 missile? How about 2 billion dollars that we'll pay 6 years from now (6 days RL, wednesday next week)?

:p True

How much would it cost to buy manufacturing rights to the M1A3, BMP3, their ammunition, and the AT-11 missile? How about 2 billion dollars that we'll pay 6 years from now (6 days RL, wednesday next week)?

ooc: 2 billion dollars for 3 major military systems? sounds a little low to me. Can someone else confirm that in NS that is at all normal?

IC:
The Mannatopian People's Engineers are currently considering your offer for manufacturing rights.

We know its low, the real price would be maybe $20 billion.

Still, we're a small country and this is a first-time purchase.

We know its low, the real price would be maybe $20 billion.

Still, we're a small country and this is a first-time purchase.
To Athiesism Representative

The People's Engineers have considered your offer. We understand you cannot afford a $20 billion purchase. Unfortunetly, we cannot afford to sell you manufacturing rights for all of these weapon systems. We can sell you the rights to the M1A3 and its ammunition, minus the AT-11 (one of our most advanced technologies), for $2 billion. We await your response.

Minister of the People's Engineers

I will be purchasing 40 M1128 Stryker MGSs for
$164,000,000.

If you can shorten it to 160,000,000. I'd would lke it.

I accept, Mannatopia.

I will be purchasing 40 M1128 Stryker MGSs for
$164,000,000.

If you can shorten it to 160,000,000. I'd would lke it.
Order accepted, the 40 M1128 Stryker MGSs are on their way.
I accept, Mannatopia.
The Mannatopian People's Engineers hereby send the blueprints agreed upon, and authorize you to construct them in your own factories.

bump (for the hell of it)

this storefront is now closed. I shall create a new and larger one shortly.