NationStates Jolt Archive

Type:Man portable Anti-Material cannon
Name: N-1
Fire Modes: Single shot
Round: 23 x 300mm armor piercing micro pulse jet rocket
Barrel Length: 1200mm
Overall Length: 1600mm
Magazine Capacity: 1 round
Cyclic ROF: 12-16 round/min (Depends on operators ability to load and fire)
Muzzle Velocity: 680 m/s
Post Muzzle Velocity (After pluse jet fires): 2,382 m/s
Maximum Range: 4.8km
Penetration: 300mm of reinforced steel
Mass: 38.8 Kg
Other: 2x, 8x, 12x, 20x digital enhanced scope, compressable anti recoil stock, Infra red, night vision, Cushioned metal plate attached to shoulder
Estimated Unit Cost:110,000 USD per unit;135 USD per shot

Description:
The N-1 man portable anti-material cannon (MANPAC) was developed to allow soldiers on the modern battle field some way of elimnating armoured vehicles and helicopters. This in part failed due to the resulting weapon being very expensive to produce and maintain even though it furfilled its design brief.

The N-1 MANPAC works by having a 23x300mm rocket with a a cordite detonater attached to the back. the rocket is then fired like a bullet out of the barrel after leaving the barrel a small pulse jet igniter heated by the cordite explosion fires the jet and propels the projectile to immense speed. At this speed the projectile loses its form and becomes a flying slug of molten metal that wll cut through all but the heaviest armour like a hot knife through butter.

OOC: Please tell me what think

Anybody?? any critiscms? comments?? suggestion??

So its an 25mm RPG? Cannon? Doesn't the much cheaper RPG-7 fill that role?

So its an 25mm RPG? Cannon? Doesn't the much cheaper RPG-7 fill that role?

RPG-7 isn't going to do crap to the armor on a tank. It’s an Anti-personal weapon. It may blow through a Sheridan, and it’ll’ ignite the reactive armor on older Soviet tanks, but an M1, and those UBEROMGZ to-good-for-RP (personal opinion) custom tanks around here, will just shrug it off.

An RPG-29 would have a better chance, but, still…

I personally like this idea. It may be cheaper to employment than a Javelin or Dragon ATGM. Though, its going to be a bitch to lug around

We use the IWS-2000 http://www.world.guns.ru/sniper/sn46-e.htm

RPG-7 with tandem-HEATs are responsible for a lot of tank disables if they strike in the right place. As for anti-material rifle, I do use the 15.2mm ammo good idea Trap.

OOC: IMHO anything bigger then a 20mm round for Anti-Material use is worthless, you could easily replace it with a cheap ATGM, although I have a 15.5mm Anti-Material rifle it's more of an sniper then anything.

Its not worthless its just overpowered and expensive.
MBTs mean nothing to this thing but you cant arm an army with them because they are over a million a piece.

Anyway Modern NS tanks have ways to stop ATGMs even if they are slightly unfeasible.( :Cough cough: firing flares out of the barrel :Cough cough: )

No one absolutly no one can argue with a hypersonic metal slug unless they are inside a concrete bunker.

OOC: 23mm is better. strong enough for a cannon, cheap enough for a heavy machine gun.

25x300mm is a really big bullet. you think a single guy can shoot it off without tearing his arm out of its socket?

ditch the "Unguided rocket" thing, becasue rockets are normally unguided. if it's guided it's a missile. also, rocket assist is only effective on artillery shells. also, a projectile 23mm in diameter can't have a pulse jet, fuel for the pulsejet, and expect to have enough kinetic energy or explosives to do any real damage. my suggestion would be to go with the tried and true(and cost effective) unpowered bullet. that way you get more flexibility for HEAT, API, or even sub calober hardened metal flechettes.

For an anti material rifle (which is what this is trying to be) what you want is range, accuracy, and penitration. after all, you're going to be using it against trucks, generators, radomes, unexploded ordinance, and snipers that are just out of reach of your sniper rifles.

does the weapon only hold one spare round, or is one round count the one in the chamber. if you're talking about the weapon being single-shot, then it doesn't have a magazine. normally when one has a magazine you make it so it holds more than one. like the NTW-20 holds four spare, with one in the chamber it's five. the M82A1 holds ten, plus one in the chamber it's eleven.

Reinforced steel isn't that strong anymore. the standard of measurement nowadays for Armour piercing weapons is Rolled Homogenous Armour.

Muzzel velocity refers to the speed of the projectile once it leaves the barrel of the gun. it is the fastest a bullet can go, after that it's slowing down. a rocket does not have a muzzel velocity. it only has a maximum velocity, and a flight time.

"Compressible anti recoil stock?" is that a fancy way of saying "muzzel brake and hydraulic shock absorbers all over the damn to keep from kiling the shooter?" a cheaper alternative would be to just make the thing really heavy, or to use a tripod. the thing is already gonna have to be issued as a company level weapon at least, might as well form a complete squad around it.

A SAM works best against aircraft, failing that an AA gun is your best bet. AMRs aren't used against armored vehicles. not since WW2, anyway.

all in all, i think whoever designed this got a little carried away with their own technogasm. it's like something DARPA would think up. it just wouldn't work. however, with some refinement, and a little mroe consideration payed to practicality, it could be made into a weapon that would work.

OOC: And with a penetration of only 65mm you're not gonna be knocking out any Heavy APCs or IFVs from anything but the rear.

Yay first suggestions.

1) 23mm it is then

2) A pulse jet is just some fuel and a glow plug igniter sure you could fit one inside something 23mm wide just wouldn't burn for very long
all the round is is a pluse jet tipped with a metal slug.

3) Er it has long range..

4)I know what a magazine is I just couldn't be asked to change the template
but thinking about it maybe a magazine would be a good idea possible three rounds.

5) I dont have a clue how RHA reacts to being hit by stuff.

6)I did this to show that the pluse jet starts after it leaves the barrel to stop the guys arm from being ripped off

7) Stock is made from comppresable foam which is rested against a cushioned metal plate attached to the shooter's shoulder. Did ever say it didnt have a tripod?
Your right on the weight though, it needs to be heavier.

8)Yeah but the attack helicopters not goig to like it when it gets shot at.
And why cant I use one against a tank??

9)Carried away on a technogasm you say? Well thats just my way of doing things, come up with some wildly wacky idea and let everyone else cut me down to size.

Thanks silver sky.
probably should up to say about 278?

Thanks silver sky.
probably should up to say about 278?
OOC: I'd say somewhere around 300-600, as most vehicles on NS aren't made out of steel but some type of composites, but 300-600 would be enough to knock out most APCs and all IFVs (And some light tanks) from at least the rear.

The only thing is that's it's vey big and bulky, maintiance on the barrel's gonna be a bitch....

Oh, and Ato-Sara, how about an Alliance?

Ok penetration is going way up.
And yes maintainence on the barrel is ver expensiv which is why my army arnt going to use it.

An alliance?
Make an IC thread and we will discuss terms

1) 23mm it is then
I was only stating my personal preference for the ZSU-23 AA tank. it has four 23mm AGP-23 Gas operated, Water cooled cannons. they can shoot down a fighter, and can also be used against light armour and infantry because the rounds are so cheap. but what the thing excells at is urban warfare. ZSU-23s are often used in Africa asmachinegun carriers in cities. they can kill everything in an apartment builting just by firing one burst across each floor. so if you have a 23mm cannon as standard, it makes logistic sense to have an AMR that can use the same ammo as your most powerful infantry/ground forces weapon. you should always use ammunition that is plentiful and used widely in your army.

2) A pulse jet is just some fuel and a glow plug igniter sure you could fit one inside something 23mm wide just wouldn't burn for very long
all the round is is a pluse jet tipped with a metal slug.
Yeah, that won't work very well. firstly it would have to be a really tiny jet, and i doubt it can be scaled down that much, second you need fuel for it. then you have the mass of the engine and the slug that it has to push. this hurts it's velocity. as the fuel dries up the thing gets heavier, because it's mass doesn't change save for fuel. this is one reason why rockets that go into space have multiple stages. this is also why the gyrojet pistol never cought on. it just didn't have the velocity of a conventional bullet. afterall, like i said, rocket assist is only good for artilery. small arms you're better off with the good old bullet. afteral, you need velocity to be a good AMR. the 23mm can be made longer and heavier without the pulse jet, and you can use different loads, including sub caliber projectiles like the SABOT round on the M1A2, or the .50 SLAP.

3) Er it has long range..
well, that goes without saying. but you also need velocity.


4)I know what a magazine is I just couldn't be asked to change the template
but thinking about it maybe a magazine would be a good idea possible three rounds.
make it four. if your weapon has no magazine, and you need to list something, you can just say "None."


5) I dont have a clue how RHA reacts to being hit by stuff.
Same way regular Steel does. only it's stronger.


6)I did this to show that the pluse jet starts after it leaves the barrel to stop the guys arm from being ripped off
so you still have a propelling charge? i'm getting a better picture of this round. personally, i'd use a ramjet. it's all solid state, does all the compressing and whatnot, and it only needs to inject the fuel. of course, this required some serious micro engineering. which is very expensive. you'd be better off with an apogee motor. that's just a little rocket.


7) Stock is made from comppresable foam which is rested against a cushioned metal plate attached to the shooter's shoulder. Did ever say it didnt have a tripod?
Your right on the weight though, it needs to be heavier. make it barrel heavy. and the cushioned foam? you'd be better off with some hydraulic or pnermatic pistons for the stock. simpler and easier to maintain.



8)Yeah but the attack helicopters not goig to like it when it gets shot at.
And why cant I use one against a tank??
Sure you can. a tank doesn't need to be hit with an RPG to be disabled. you strike the track, or knock out a rode wheel. it's imobilized. then all you have to do is throw a sachel charge in the tailpipe. hell, you can disable a tank with an assault rifle if you know what you're doing.


9)Carried away on a technogasm you say? Well thats just my way of doing things, come up with some wildly wacky idea and let everyone else cut me down to size.
Never said it was a bad thing, infact that's generally what i do, albeit on a more moderat scale.


my suggestions for this weapon;

The stock should be solid, for this i'm reccomending the weapon to be mounted on a buffer stock with about eight hydaulic or pnermatic recoil buffers. or four sets of two joined ent to end, have two of the four sets on the sides of the cradle(where the gun is mounted), and the remaining two attached to the two fore ones as the stock. add plates and a cheekpiece and you have a decent stock.

give it a heavy folding bypod that has two legs pointing back and the third forewards. make it capable of withstanding the recoil.

the barrel needs to be free floating if you want great accuracy. if this is a semiauto rifle this is not reccomended.

The bullet should be of the same dimentions as the bullet used in most of your light cannons, such as, if your APCs all have 25mm Bushmasters, then your round should be the same dimensions as the cannon. this is so if (God forbid) some clerk fucks up and sends the AMR ammo to the Bradley Company they won't be fucked. also, it's easier to produce the two as they can be made on the same assembly line.

The projectile shold use a solid rocket motor that jettisons once expended. this is so it loses dead weight.

I would suggest you use a sub caliber penitrator for the AP round. this is because you want it to penitrate, that's all it needs to do.

then you should have a HEI round, which is just a small explosive bullet that can set things on fire. very useful.


although i'll still stick with a simple 14mm AMR.

anyway, you don't use anything smaller than 40mm on a tank. and if you can't kill something with what you have, just call in an airstrike. infact, just call in the airstrike first. you don't need to waste a perfectly good rocket on something that doesn't need to be taken out from the ground.