NationStates Jolt Archive

I wish to know has anyone claimed rping as Eternals. The only people who I have given consent to are Theao Remius being given immortal life and maybe will command Eternal warriors and the Gaian Ascendancy as Eternals are still in their forces and possibly Mini Miehm in the future. Slaves on the other matter I have decided that in limited numbers half-Eternals may be sold by anyone so in any thread please sell no more than a million of them. On the other hand Eternal slaves I have decided that if you want Eternal slaves just ask me as the Dark Eternal have been able to capture some in their long years of war against the Eternals and have been able to remove all their implants and being experts in genetic manipulation have weaken eked their powers on the genetic level and use braces tat they have to limit their powers.

OOC: People claiming on selling Eternal slaves without my consent will be ignored unless you are able to TG me or rp here with a way how you captured them that I agree with. Also this is an exact copy of my orginal thread on the Genral forums.

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OOC: Let me put it this way. If I decide I want to RP an Eternal nation, I can. If I want to RP having Eternal slaves, I can. What you do doesn't really concern anyone, although why anyone would want to RP those.... wanked creatures is beyond me...

Could you clarify what you mean by "eternals" please. Thanks.

He is referring to a deeply religious Elder Race of his that has split into several factions.

Frankly I think your being a little OTT and a little vain.; its not like you own them. I mean, look at all the validly copyrighted races that get RPed here. Kinda the point of freeform. Do I go off at people who have Space Marines or Imperium technology? Nope; in fact me and Otagia are trying to frame a backstory for how widespread certain technologies and races are Wh40kwise on NS.

The point, that HT puts so blatantly, is that anyone can, at basics such as race, do what they want.

Frankly I think your being a little OTT and a little vain.; its not like you own them. I mean, look at all the validly copyrighted races that get RPed here. Kinda the point of freeform. Do I go off at people who have Space Marines or Imperium technology? Nope; in fact me and Otagia are trying to frame a backstory for how widespread certain technologies and races are Wh40kwise on NS.

The point, that HT puts so blatantly, is that anyone can, at basics such as race, do what they want.

He created them, it is only polite to let him use them as his, and not steal his PERSONAL creation.

I'm not gonna steal them, I like my Imperium being the way it is; but if anyone does steal them, I'm not going to scream blue murder about it.

Technically, I think he owns a copyright to them if he is the one who made them up. But if they are found somewhere else, and they've been rped with since before he was on NS, he can't claim them as his.

Do you understand?

I'm not gonna steal them, I like my Imperium being the way it is; but if anyone does steal them, I'm not going to scream blue murder about it.

I'm just going to ignolere anyone who uses them, and I nver thouight you'dsteal them, you're too Chaos for that.

Ok, I Am going to be Oh so nice here.

No, If I want to have your People as slaves, I will have as many of them as I damn well want. They are wanky, so I will just let one of the Twelve kick your ass a few times. I am quite capably of taking your creatures as slaves, want to know why? Because my nation has had magic WAY longer then you have existed ((If I am counting correctly, we have 12 people who have existed since the Wars of Ra, before this dimension was formed.)) We have technology Specificly designed to STOP magic, or any other form ((Psykic, Dimensional Folding ect)) your people in all there wonderful glory would be rendered to rely on their technology, which SHOULD if your RPing to true form, get them screwed. Afterall, if your as good as you say they are, why do they need technology in the first place?

Thus, do not tell me weather or not I can take your people, RP them, I don't mind, Take them? Bum off.

No, If I want to have your People as slaves, I will have as many of them as I damn well want.

And if you can't RP enslaving them, you can go get bent. It's really that simple. You should have a slightly coherent backstory, expecially when dealing with 'unique' races. There are lots of elves, catgirls etc. But I expect a decent explanation of where you would get rarer races such as Necrontyr, Silvae, Vorlons, Shadows (B5), Time Lords, etc. You can just-say-you-have-them, but the rest of us can just say you don't, with better grounding.

And no. The copyright belongs to Max Barry. Read the ToS.

And if you can't RP enslaving them, you can go get bent. It's really that simple. You should have a slightly coherent backstory, expecially when dealing with 'unique' races. There are lots of elves, catgirls etc. But I expect a decent explanation of where you would get rarer races such as Necrontyr, Silvae, Vorlons, Shadows (B5), Time Lords, etc. You can just-say-you-have-them, but the rest of us can just say you don't, with better grounding.

And no. The copyright belongs to Max Barry. Read the ToS.

Max Barry's copyright only extends to the NationStates website. He does not in any way own the forums, which are covered by their own ToS (Jolt's).

This should help with the subject:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440609

Wow first of all I can't believe someone actually made a thread asking that question.

From that thread, Scandinvans has copyrighted use of the Eternals so we can't just steal them. That doesn't prevent us from enslaving them if we say where the hell they came from. So if Lessir Tsurani wanted he could say he had a bunch of Eternal slaves that he got from some Eternal ship or planet.

Wow first of all I can't believe someone actually made a thread asking that question.

From that thread, Scandinvans has copyrighted use of the Eternals so we can't just steal them. That doesn't prevent us from enslaving them if we say where the hell they came from. So if Lessir Tsurani wanted he could say he had a bunch of Eternal slaves that he got from some Eternal ship or planet.
I'm not sure about that interpretation.
As I understand, from British law, which would seem to apply here due to the posts being published on a british server, is that if he does use Eternals, he has to give credit to Scandinvans, every post he uses them in.
And if Scan doesn't want other people to use them period, that means they can't use them. Unless I am reading their law wrong.

I'm not sure exactly which national law should be used so I'll go ahead and use both the British copyright laws and the US ones.

According to The U.S. Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. § 102, the automatic copyright does NOT include ideas. Scandinvans threads about Eternals can hardly be considered literary work. If you look at that thread the British copyright law seemingly does not include ideas as a work of an author. So, legally, we don't even need to credit Scandinvans about the Eternals because the automatic copyright of the US and the poor man copyright of the British do not extend to ideas.

Not to mention even if it did Scandinvans has no way to sue us in court.

So basically unless he trademarks, copyrights and patents the idea of the Eternals, anyone can use them

Why steal 'em? Be original and come up with something cool of your own-- it makes things more interesting.

Elemental matter my people do not rely on magic soley, depends on how you define magic, they rely on their own power to bend the already present matter such as summoning a metor to crash into one that is their way, or by summoning materials from the earth to forge a sword. Of course they summon things from other planes that can be stopped. Also I have read accordilngly you cannot take credit for somelse's work on the forums. So if I don't want you to use an character or race of my own creation then you have to gain my permission to use it.

Benefit of having some many threads as well as having building there interior culture allows me to fix any flaws people point such as the Highest One is worshipped by my people as an god and the Eldest One is his son in thought though not the incarnate of him though that does give him some godly powers enough for him to humble nearly all non-oppenets his brother is an another son of the Highest One though being younger he has the lesser power. To get to the Highest One his power is that of the very universe and espically that of the Eternal Race as his power is not divided amongst many gods like some NS religions. Also the Eternals like Mini Miehm pointed out in an earlier thread then this the Eternals are like the LOTR Valar.

We don't need to gain your permission on an IDEA. Ideas don't fall under the items protected by the automatic/poor man copyright. We don't need to ask you for permission to stop us from crediting ourselves. I'm not sure if we even have to credit and acknowledge that the Eternals are your idea.


Benefit of having some many threads as well as having building there interior culture allows me to fix any flaws people point such as the Highest One is worshipped by my people as an god and the Eldest One is his son in thought though not the incarnate of him though that does give him some godly powers enough for him to humble nearly all non-oppenets his brother is an another son of the Highest One though being younger he has the lesser power.
That statement is flawed. How can the Eldest One be the son of someone. That means his dad is older than him so he isn't oldest. And of course his son isn't the incarnate of him, incarnate is not a noun but an adj and tr. verb. I'd like to see you be an adj or tr. verb. It's also nice to know that being adopted by a God instantly gives you some powers which would break the law of conservation of energy because from what you are saying the power is received merely because he has been adopted and not because it has been given or drained from a power source.

To get to the Highest One his power is that of the very universe and espically that of the Eternal Race as his power is not divided amongst many gods like some NS religions. Also the Eternals like Mini Miehm pointed out in an earlier thread then this the Eternals are like the LOTR Valar.
The only part of that that actually made sense was the Eternals were like the Valar.

Okay let make it clearer the Eldest One is the first of the Eternal race and the Highest One is the god and creator of the Eternals. Like the Valar the Eldest One and his brother were created as the thought of the Highest One. So they bare much in common wiyj the Valars; creation and that of Adam and Eve's creation.

We don't need to gain your permission on an IDEA. Ideas don't fall under the items protected by the automatic/poor man copyright. We don't need to ask you for permission to stop us from crediting ourselves. I'm not sure if we even have to credit and acknowledge that the Eternals are your idea.



That statement is flawed. How can the Eldest One be the son of someone. That means his dad is older than him so he isn't oldest. And of course his son isn't the incarnate of him, incarnate is not a noun but an adj and tr. verb. I'd like to see you be an adj or tr. verb. It's also nice to know that being adopted by a God instantly gives you some powers which would break the law of conservation of energy because from what you are saying the power is received merely because he has been adopted and not because it has been given or drained from a power source.


The only part of that that actually made sense was the Eternals were like the Valar.
Nice try. No cigar. By him publishing the Eternals here, and their characteristics etc., the Eternals are no longer just an idea. They became copyrighted intellectual property.
An idea cannot be copyrighted because it was not put into written or other recorded format. Once that happens, it is no longer just an idea that any one can use (unless the originator ok's it).
You can base a group off the eternals, but you cannot make them THE Eternals nor can you give them the exact same characteristics. Scandinvans has published his idea for the race "Eternals" on this forum. That makes them his intellectual property. He has the right to exclude people from using them.

The problem with the examples I see on here, for example the Jem Hadar of Babylon 5 or the Wookies of Star Wars. Those are claimed as general ideas, often on this forum, when in fact they are copyrighted intellectual property. Meaning that everyone who uses them in their rps, which is published on a public forum, is technically violating copyright law. This is especially so if your intention is to, in some way (not necessarily monetary), to profit off them.
On NS there seems to be a lot of defacto consent going on. Which means that people are consenting to their characters being used by not protesting the fact that others are using them. If there is a protest then it can not be said that defacto or even straight forward consent exists.

The forums isn't a mean of publishing. And his stuff on the Eternals are RPs and RPs do not count as literary work so they have no chance of being published. Use of races such as the Wookies from SW is allowed if you give credit to the creator. If you claim that you made it up then you can get sued.

copyrighted intellectual property.
.... A fictional race is intellectual property? The closest anyone on this forum could get to copyrighting a fictional race is by creating a closed story thread and make up a new one. That would count as a literary work and would thus be copyrighted by US copyright and British poor man copyright. A RP race doesn't count and is an idea. Ideas are not instantly copyrighted and for a usable copyright you'd need trademark, copyright, patent, and registration just like Chronosia said.

Even if he did copyright I could always say that I made up an Elder Race that is immortal, immune to disease, grew up on a lifeless planet, split up into several factions, and was created by a God called the Highest One and then in the beginning add a disclaimer that says any and all characters, planets, species, and languages in this story/RP are completely fictional and any similarities you might find are completely coincidental. I could legally get away with it even though it is a ripoff of Scandinvans guys.

Let's end this quickly. IS THERE A LAWYER IN THE AUDIENCE?

Well my dad is a lawyer, but I do not really not that much about copyrighrt he mustly does law suits.

I think you mean you do not really know that much?

And if your dad does lawsuits why don't you know about copyrights? Copyright lawsuits happen a lot.

I mean that I have spoken to him on some legal matters and I have never discussed this kind of thing with him before and also I have found a good webiste read the first two paragraphs.
Link: http://www.pitt.edu/~skvarka/education/copyright/

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All that says is we can't steal anything without crediting it. That thing conveniently forgot to mention U.S. Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §§ 102. Your Eternal race is not a tangible medium because it is an IDEA.Therefore it is not eligible for copyright protection. We can use it however we want and we don't even need to credit you. If you posted a short story about them it could qualify as a literary work and would then be protected by copyright law.

(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:
(1) literary works;
(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;
(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;
(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;
(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;
(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
(7) sound recordings; and
(8) architectural works.
(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

Idea by defination is something that is an thought or conception of the mind, but yet illustared you got me there the way I could get is all is if I make my own website and put all this own there, but I would have to gain permission of Max Berry to do so.

OOC: I am tired so if my last post is a kittle sloopy forgive me for that and also good night.

You don't need to get Max Berry's permission to make a website about your idea. All the stuff on the boards are automatically possession of the people who wrote them unless they are an intangible medium. Max Berry only has a license to view this things and edit if absolutely necessary. All you need to do is create something about the Eternals that's in a tangible medium. The only one you can actually do is literary works unless you are a good artist or you know how to use flash.

All that says is we can't steal anything without crediting it. That thing conveniently forgot to mention U.S. Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §§ 102. Your Eternal race is not a tangible medium because it is an IDEA.Therefore it is not eligible for copyright protection. We can use it however we want and we don't even need to credit you. If you posted a short story about them it could qualify as a literary work and would then be protected by copyright law.
a post counts as a litirary work. Also, I don't think US Copyright law applies. You have to use British law. That is what where the server is located.

You don't need to get Max Berry's permission to make a website about your idea. All the stuff on the boards are automatically possession of the people who wrote them unless they are an intangible medium. Max Berry only has a license to view this things and edit if absolutely necessary. All you need to do is create something about the Eternals that's in a tangible medium. The only one you can actually do is literary works unless you are a good artist or you know how to use flash.
The burden of proof is on you that eternals are an intangible medium. You have not proven it.

I think the point is that while it is of course entirely possible and well within your abilities to 'steal' the idea, or to 'claim' slaves/ citizens of $Madeup_Species from another player, you're still making utter dumbasses with the RP skills of a dead sponge out of yourself if and when you do it, Ageaol/ Lessir Tsurani.

Discussing copyrights is kind of distracting from the main issue, really.

Look at the thread I found about copyright on the forums: :) http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440609&page=1&pp=15

the bumpa matic bumped

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I think the point is that while it is of course entirely possible and well within your abilities to 'steal' the idea, or to 'claim' slaves/ citizens of $Madeup_Species from another player, you're still making utter dumbasses with the RP skills of a dead sponge out of yourself if and when you do it, Ageaol/ Lessir Tsurani.

Discussing copyrights is kind of distracting from the main issue, really.

Unless, of course, the slaves were legitimately won in conquest. After all, what self respecting Chaos nation wouldn't take slaves to sacrifice/eat/work to death?

((OC- Yes it's all old here, but I just saw this and wanted to comment since I was given permission in the first post.

As far as I am concerned, other than the three half-Eternals offered as Aleaic's wives, the rest of the Eternals are Scand's personal property, and I will refrain from any Eternal usage, save for above, from this moment forth.

The reason is the interraction needed, plus I do not know how he would like me rping Eternals as a part of an ascended realm that serves Heaven as Lower Allies. (one of many 'many' NPC Allies...) But, it's mostly because I respect his use of the Eternals, a touch too rp tough to be honest, but rewarding nonetheless. =^^= ))

The problem with the examples I see on here, for example the Jem Hadar of Babylon 5

Just to clear things up, the Jem Hadar are not from Babylon 5, they are part of the Dominion in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

Oh, and I agree that people should get permission to use any custom race/species/group made by a member for use on these forums. I, for one, am currently thinking about bringing the race I made for some stories I am writing, and I would be really ticked off if someone took them and RP'ed with them without my permission.