NationStates Jolt Archive

After much consideration and Military budget increases. The Trixian space navy have decided to embark on making a Death Star, they have the resources and the manpower to begin construction, they just need sponsership.

"Ladies and Gentlemen of NationStates! I and Sophie Trent, the Designer-in-Chief of the Trixian DS project. I am asking now is any nation is interested in donating either resources of manpower to the construction of the battle station. In exchange we shall put you Nations name on the side, the show you involvment, send a 'welcome the the DS team' welcome pack, and allow the use of the station when you require it"

"I understand that many of you may doubt the practicallity of this venture. But i believe that with the right funding, and enough time, we can do this!"

"We have space for 10 sponsers, on a 1st come 1st served basis. I eagerly await your responses"

"Oh and one last thing, evil dictatorships will not be allowed to sponser, what do you take us for? Imperialists!?"

Sponsers of the Trixian DS Project

Trixia: pop 4.632 billion
National Commonwealth: pop 933 million
Marax




Total TDSP pop: 5.565 billion

From The Office of the National Commonwealth Armament Dept.
600 Rue Champs-De-République
Verum, RNC Federal District 14556

August 13, 2005

The Republic of National Commonwealth would be honored to donate manpower and sponsor this momentous development! We are prepared to offer $340 billion in venture capital plus an additional ŧ400 billion Banc-Securities Marks (in liberty bonds). We would also like to send a development team with as many privitized PFRNC workers as you would require from us. Thank you!

P.S. We would also like to know if our companies could perhaps sponsor a mall or shopping corridor within the proposed development to sell various services and products.

James Ernhardt
Chairman, PFRNC Committee on Defense
Vice-Chair, Millitary Commercial Development Commission

Thank you for your support!

A shopping corridor would be no problem at all! In fact how does a whole level sound? I'm sure it will cater you capitalistic needs!
Please do send in a dev team, we're still refining the weaponry at present, we can only destory small moons at the moment, not planets, and could use the extra help!

Thanks again!

"sir some ones trying to build a death star!" they are ohh well fire ignore phasers!!! *ignore phasers fire*

If it were capable of such a thing, the Collective would be laughing at you right now.

ooc:This report is to depose the idea that it can't be done. ic:

From The Office of the National Commonwealth Armament Dept.
600 Rue Champs-De-République
Verum, RNC Federal District 14556

----------DEATH STAR
FEASIBILITY REPORT I - Technology

As a sponsor of this project, PFRNC military researchers have compiled this report on the proposed development.

-Analysis of Past and Future DS Potential - OUTCOME: Possible Development

Rotation
The Death Star battle stations could perform controlled rotation on at least one axis. This capability is vital to each station's role as a weapon. The composite "superlaser" beam could be fired off-axis within some limits, but the whole station must rotate to face targets sitting outside that arc. The first Death Star rotated towards its targets after arriving in the Alderaan and Yavin systems facing off-target. The second Death Star turned several times to face parts of the rebel fleet near Endor, and finally rotated almost 180° to face the moon.

Rotation about the polar axis was much less necessary for manoeuvring, since the station's sublight drives were equally spaced around the equator. Rotation about the other two axes have helped the performance of manoeuvres involving accelerations above or below the equatorial plane.

When the first Death Star arrived in the Alderaan system the main weapon was pointed at more than 45° away from the planet. Within a few minutes, the station had rotated until it had a direct facing to the target. The rotation then apparently slowed or stopped when the planet Alderaan was in aim.

Jerjerrod's discussion with an aide [in Return of the Jedi, p.206] enables us to infer the limits of the battle station's rotational abilities. Initially the station was almost spinless when it faced the rebel fleet. At that time the Death Star needed to accomplish slightly less than half a rotation before the Endor Moon was within the reach of the superlaser. At the initial rotation rate the projected firing time was two minutes. Moff Jerjerrod ordered that the rotation be accelerated. At this (presumably maximal) angular acceleration, the firing time was brought forward to sixty seconds. This implies an angular acceleration of the order of:

α = 0.0003 radians / s².
If we knew the mass density of a Death Star then we could estimate the power consumed by this opration. Unfortunately the density is not easy to determine. A lattice of metallic solid is visible through the gaps in the incomplete superstructure, but the void fraction is unknown. The power requirements of the prime weapon also imply the presence of a considerable amount of mass-energy fuel in some other exotic form, and the fuel mass may exceed the "dry" structural mass of the station. Using a fiducial density the same as water, and a diameter of approximately 900km, the power involved in the observed rotational acceleration is on the order of:

P = 1026 W = 1017 GW
This estimate should be adjusted in proportion to the actual density (relative to water). For any plausible density the rotational power is negligible compared to the power of recharging the superlaser.

Given Jerjerrod's urgency in destroying the moon, it seems likely that the acceleration he ordered was near the maximum physical tolerance of the incomplete structure. A robust, fully built Death Star — with a complete internal framework, a full set of inertial compensators and tensor field generators — might be able to accelerate its rotation faster.



------------------------------------------

Propulsion.
-Repulsors.
The region within approximately six diameters from a habitable world is known as "antigrav range". Within this zone the use of repulsorlift against the planet's gravitational field is a more efficient means of support or outward propulsion than the ion-drive sublight thrusters which are most useful in deep space. The Death Star was able to support itself using immense repulsor fields. If the battle station supported itself entirely by repulsorlift, without engaging in any orbital motion, then its repulsors would need to oppose the local gravitational field strength of about 0.07 m / s². This characterises the lower limits of the accelerative ability of Death Star I's repulsors.

Sublight drives
The sublight drives of the Death Stars are not conspicuous when the battle stations were viewed from afar. Various sources claim that the sublight engines in Death Star I were housed around the equatorial waistband, but the actual nozzles were too small to be seen from more than a few kilometres away. The Mandel blueprints indicate that there are 68 "antimatter engines", which presumably are the sublight drives.

The tiny size of the sublight drives in proportion to the whole vessel is an important hint to the nature of this technology: clearly the effectiveness of this propulsion mechanism does not increase greatly according to the aperture area.

Though not impotent, the sublight drives of the Death Star were not strong enough to move the battle station's immense bulk around the planet Yavin in less than half an hour. According to dimensions of the Yavin system calculable from data in Galaxy Guide 2: Yavin and Bespin, the average of the velocity of the Death Star in this trajectory must have been of the order of 400km/s. Of course a sustained acceleration would make any sublight velocity attainable after a sufficient time, but this was the maximum attainable within the constraints of time and the celestial mechanics of the Yavin system.

Rebel starfighters were capable of accelerating well enough to meet the Death Star within only a few minutes. Unsurprisingly, this is much better speed than the battle station could make.

The blueprints quote the maximum acceleration of the first Death Star as "0.0001 grav", which probably means a ten-thousandth of the surface gravity of a standard habitable planet. This would mean something like 0.001 m / s² in metric units. If the Death Star I emerged from hyperspace at rest with respect to Yavin then it would have taken over four and a half days to accelerate to its proper orbital velocity. Either the "0.0001 grav" is in error, has been misinterpreted by me or else vessels are able to emerge from hyperspace at whatever realspace velocity the pilots choose.

For our New Death Star to achieve mobility and firepower similar to its predecessor, its power systems must at least be scaled up in proportion to the overall volume of the station. However when a sphere is scaled up its surface area increases much more slowly than the total volume. Therefore the density of sublight thruster nozzles and heat dispersion ducts on the surface of the Death Star II must be much greater than on the original station. Otherwise these systems must be built for markedly greater efficiency.

The Death Star arrives in the Yavin system and heads towards the planet. In these frames the station is moving at a speed of a few tens of km/s relative to the camera. The camera's velocity relative to the planet is not measurable.

-------------------------------------------

Blueprints stating maximum sublight acceleration of Death Star I. Unrealistically low figure considering the actual accelerations implied in the orbit around Yavin.

---------------------------------------------
Limits of thrusters
Suppose that a Death Star has a total mass M (including its hypermatter fuel), and a radius R. Suppose that the battle station can use its equatorial thrusters to change its spin, such as Jerjerrod's attempt to rotate and target the Endor moon in the last moments of the Battle of Endor.

If a single thruster on the surface exerts a force f at an angle θ to the local vertical direction then the torque it exerts on the Death Star is τ = f R sin θ. If the maximum possible deflection off vertical is δ and if all thrusters fire at maximum thrust towards the same side then the total torque exerted on the Death Star is τ = F R sin δ, where is the total output of all N thrusters, F = N f. The resulting angular acceleration of the Death Star (rate of change of the spin) is given by α = τ / I , where I is the moment of inertia about the polar axis.

The moment of inertia is related to the mass and radius of the object, I ∝ M R². The constant of proportionality, which we may label as X=I/M R², depends on how centrally concentrated the density is. If essentially all of the mass were concentrated at the exact centre then X=0. If all the mass were concentrated on the spherical surface then X=2/3. If all the mass were concentrated around the equator then X=1. If the mass is evenly distributed throughout the spherical volume then X=2/5. The possible values of X are realistically limited to the range 0<X<1, unless the outer radius has been misidentified and the Death Star really has a substantial halo of invisible mass far outside its visible surface (implausible).

Combining the definitions above, X M R α = F sin δ. Call this the equation of maximum torque.

Now consider the way the Death Star can direct its equatorial thrusters for maximum acceleration in a particular direction, but no torque (alteration of spin). Individual thrusters fall into one of three areas of usefulness:

The thrusters on the forward side cannot contribute, and they stay inactive.
On the trailing side of the equator, thrusters [marked in red below right diagram] within a longitude angle δ of the acceleration vector are able to contribute their full output. The total thrust force due to engines in this region is F δ / π.
Thrusters [marked in pink below right diagram] at longitudes between δ and π/2 radians (90°) cannot fire exactly in the intended thrust direction. However each of these thrusters has a left/right counterpart so that the total force is balanced. A thruster at longitude θ applies an effective force f cos(θ-δ ). By integrating over this region, the total thrust from these peripheral engines is (F / π ) cos δ.
The Death Star's total thrust force is (F / π ) (δ + cos δ ) = M a. Here a is the resulting acceleration, and M is the total mass of the battle station, its fuel and contents. Call this the equation of maximum acceleration.

Finally, we can eliminate F from the equation for maximum acceleration and the equation for maximum torque. Thereby we find that the maximum spin acceleration (α* ) and the maximum linear acceleration (a* ) of the Death Star are related via the mass concentration parameter X and the maximum deflection of an individual thruster (δ ).

a* / R α* = X (δ+cos δ )/(π sin δ ).
Example: We have deduced that the maximum angular acceleration of the Death Star II was about 0.0003 rad/s, and the radius was at least 400km. If the internal mass distribution is almost even, and if the thrusters can deflect by 10° in either direction then this particular (incomplete) battle station was capable of accelerating laterally by about 100 m / s², i.e. about ten G. If instead the thrusters can deflect by 30° then the maximum linear acceleration is 40 m / s², just over four G. If the thrusters can deflect as far as the local horizon, up to 90°, then the maximum sublight acceleration of the battle station is 24 m / s², over two G. Thus a Death Star appears to be much more sluggish than the 3000G accelerations that a star destroyer achieves in a straight line chase (e.g. chasing down the Millennium Falcon on several occasions).

Caveat: This relationship between maximum torque and maximum thrust only applies if the equatorial sublight drives are the only devices able to spin a Death Star. We could consider more fanciful alternatives, such as counter-rotating masses of hypermatter in the core acting as invisible, internal flywheels.

http://www.lowtechweb.com/thrusters.jpg

Use of the equatorial thrusters of a Death Star. Here the globe is viewed from one of the poles, the equator is the black perimeter. The left panel shows how thrusters are used to accelerate the station's spin in a clockwise sense. The right illustration shows how the thrusters can manoeuver the battle station in some direction within the equatorial plane. Red or pink lines represent the directions of thrust streams from representative sublight drive units in the equator. The angle δ denotes the maximum off-vertical deflection possible for the particle stream from any sublight drive.

In conclusion, we can build a Death Star with international support and at least $20 trillion in starting capital.

----------------------------END REPORT
UNNOFICIAL STATISTICS AND FORMULAS SUPPLIED BY THEFORCE.NET

"sir some ones trying to build a death star!" they are ohh well fire ignore phasers!!! *ignore phasers fire*

Well your no fun! ;)

National Commonwealth. Well done on the Feasibility report! Very concise!

Still doesn't change the fact that the whole thing is a stupid move. I mean, yes, it's big. It's shiny. It's the ultimate extension one's manhood. Do you know how much of your nation's resources you'll have to put towards making this monstrosity? Talk about all your eggs in one basket. Not to mention that, if the shields drop (which is quite easy with all of Future Tech's various gizmos), one good torpedo hit will render it useless. Remember, torpedoes in FT are measured in gigatons, and ships of some nations can launch massive volleys of the blighters.

Then there's the problem of matter transporters. A simple "beaming" device could land a strike team in the fire control center, and you'd suddenly have a really big weapon turned against you. Or, they could put a bomb in the REALLY BIG reactor. Woudn't even have to be a big bomb.

Then, of course, there's the "Death Star Syndrome" that so many big toys fall victim to - one small flaw overlooked and exploitable. AKA a fighter flying into it and launching a proton torpedo.

So yes, you could build it. Question is, why would you want to? It's a lot better to just put those resources towards smaller, more manueverable ships.

Subject: Death Star
Re: Sponsorship
To: Grand Trixia
From: The Queen of Marax
AD: Personal Basis - unrequired
Date: Thursday, August 24th, 2005 / Canto, Limbo 6, 2005

In response to the request for sponsership for the much anticipated Death Star project, the Queendom of Marax is prepared to offer full support of its economical draft team. In doing so, we will be able to provide you with a staggering 250 pieces (please acknowledge this is noted as $200 million American dollars). We await your acceptance and hope that in the future, our tiny kingdom will be able to look towards your power with admiration. We are looking forward to further militarily inclined proposals. Thank you.

Sincerely,
The Queen of Marax, Personal Basis unrequired
The Head of National Security, Chief Kaji

Still doesn't change the fact that the whole thing is a stupid move. I mean, yes, it's big. It's shiny. It's the ultimate extension one's manhood. Do you know how much of your nation's resources you'll have to put towards making this monstrosity? Talk about all your eggs in one basket. Not to mention that, if the shields drop (which is quite easy with all of Future Tech's various gizmos), one good torpedo hit will render it useless. Remember, torpedoes in FT are measured in gigatons, and ships of some nations can launch massive volleys of the blighters.

Then there's the problem of matter transporters. A simple "beaming" device could land a strike team in the fire control center, and you'd suddenly have a really big weapon turned against you. Or, they could put a bomb in the REALLY BIG reactor. Woudn't even have to be a big bomb.

Then, of course, there's the "Death Star Syndrome" that so many big toys fall victim to - one small flaw overlooked and exploitable. AKA a fighter flying into it and launching a proton torpedo.

So yes, you could build it. Question is, why would you want to? It's a lot better to just put those resources towards smaller, more manueverable ships.



Verry true

Well I thought it'd make for a good little bit of RP. But as you two have shot it to the ground i'm guessin i was wrong.

Hey mate. If you wanna build it for RP purposes, then do it. I'm just saying, it's not a viable military weapon.

But, if this is for RP, then DO IT!