NationStates Jolt Archive

New! HSR Mk. 1
Comes with bipod and 2 Lightweight zoom-adjustable scopes: Normal and Thermal. (Zoom adjustable from 6x to 14x)

Cartridge: .338 Lapua

Dimensions:
Length: 1100mm
Weight: 30kg
Barrel: 700mm
Magazine Capacity: 8 Rounds

Price: 5,000 Kopeks.

...200x magnfication is more than a lot of microscopes and is probably useless in any real combat situation. The sniper wont be able to see anything except a really tiny spec on the horizon and will end up throwing the sights away and buying some better ones...

Ok, what do you suggest? 40x?

The SUSAT on the L85 rifle is 6x... I would have thought that 8x - 12x would be the absolutely maximum for anything you use in combat...

My Kjatan snipers use 5x, 10x, 20x

I use electronically changed magnification, all in one complete scope. So the sniper never has to physically change or remove the scope. I am trying to work a system into a sniper gun that will automatically predict wind, and error and auto-correct for it on the scope. So the sniper only has to line up a shot on the scope and not plan for disturbance. Though that seems a far way off.

Cool, Ill take it all into consideration, but im no way near electronic scopes yet, Im quite young if you hadnt noticed.

Right, now it does it look alright?

You want varying magnification. If you look at something from 12x and they are considerably closer then it defeats the purpose of 12x. Differences in scopes allow your sniper to work better.

A problem is the more scopes the heavier and more problematic if you change them, mine is electronic, but still has ALL the scopes inside. So less is sometimes better.

Could I change mine into a 3-way electronic scope then?

Electronic scopes have some problems.

They are more expensive.
Are able to be effected by EMP pulses.
Are heavier.

Though for all purposes it fits my nation and its tech level. Its also the skill of the sniper that determines how deadly they are. For a sniper to be deadly he must have four things.

Location
Skill
Experience
A good gun

Many snipers will also personalize their guns and really make them special. You want to give your snipers accurate, reliable guns that don't jam. I have a special system that gives no jamming at all under any condition.

No jamming? Even in a desert?
And also, a good sniper must follow the 6 Golden rules of sniping, The fives S's and the M.
So, should I give my rifle perhaps, 4 Lightweight scopes: 12x Normal, 8x Normal, 12x Thermal, 8x Thermal.

No...it never jams. I use a 'cap' for when transporting. The gun has no moving parts. No 'cartridges' and no wasted shells. You'll never know the sniper was there, and you'll never see any waste left behind.

How can it have no moving parts?
Oh btw I have finished all modifactions now, so, dya reckon its ready for export? I think Ill extend a line of rifles.

It uses Metal Storm technology. Electrical firing. Bullets are stored inside the gun and can be fired at incredible speed.

As a sniper you can put three rounds of any size you are carrying in a guy's head before recoil affects the gun. Since it is so accurate it can not only pierce through thick Kelvar with AP rounds, but can go through exo-skeleton suits.

Would you be willing to take on one of my rifles for an Rp test?

Would you be willing to take on one of my rifles for an Rp test?

We don't use snipers often, they are kinda out of date, unless we fight in urban environments. I'll see ok, I don't have as good of an idea how yours work. Take your own for a test drive.

Ok. Ill start a separate thread.

OOC: I don't think there's enough information for me to say much, but I have one question right away: What's 7.62x45mm NATO? Some round developed/used by/for a NATO in NS? In reality, NATO's 7.62mm round is x51mm, isn't it? Russia's are 7.62x25mm, x39mm, and x54mm.

If 7.62x51mm NATO is what you meant, I might add that especially high magnification is not likely to be of any use... 7.62mm sniper-rifles are relatively light affairs as sniper-rifles go, and not typically employed at long ranges. They're just not powerful enough for it. High magnification against relatively close-range targets will presumably make it harder to bear on a target, as a tiny movement will translate to something massive so far as the scope is concerned, and I'd imagine it's just making work for nothing.

It is possible to work at longer ranges, but as an example of what one must compensate for, I cite an event in Iraq where, reportedly, the Royal Marines used their 7.62x51mm weapons (L96) to kill targets at 860m distance, and the bullets dropped some 17m (56') in flight. That's a lot to account for when lining up your shot, and I don't know if you'll want your scope giving you a narrow view while trying to do it.

It's rare for sniper-rifles, so far as I know, to have magnification above x10 or 11, and I'd imagine that this is only of much utility in high-power weapons like those firing .338 Lapua or similar.

For what it matters, BG uses .338 Lapua (since we're based in Finland and surrounding territory) and a domestic 11x72mm round, and is planning to introduce a lighter 7mm weapon as well.

This weapon, so far as I can tell, would be best issued along side a more powerful weapon that would actually have a use for x10 or so magnification sights.

Would you mind if I were to use .338 Lapua

There wouldn't be much point to using the Lapau in most combat. It's called a "Super Magnum" for a reason.

Most ultra-high caliber rifles are special purpose weapons. The .300 and .338 Magnums are for ultra-long ranged shooting in military use, and are usually converted hunting rifles (bigger targets, longer range than can be expected in combat).

Even moreso, the .50 cal (12.7x99mm NATO, I forgot the Russian, but I think it's something like x107) rifles are Anti-Material Rifles (AMR). These are designed to shoot jeeps, helicopters, and even light armored vehicles; they have a second use as kilometer ranged rifles, but again, as a Special Weapon.

[This is even more with the ultra heavy 15mm-25mm AMRs being developed in real life, and used commonly on NS.]

Why is this?

Well, the ammo is expensive. So expensive that if you shoot infantry with it, you could lose money in the exchange if you're fighting a poor country. Cost is nasty in a war, and production would become slow and/or shoddy.

Refire is lacking. Even with a semi-auto variant of a rifle in this range, the recoil is going to be like an elephant stomping your shoulder. The M82, the .50 used by the US, blows back so much gas that the spotter can get a bloody nose. Try to quickly re-acquire after THAT.

You can't carry much ammo. If a sniper can carry 100 rounds of 7.62x51mm, but can only carry 10 rounds of 12.7x99, that sniper WILL have a problem if cut off in the field. In real life, snipers operate for days without contact, even weeks. The last thing they need is to be crippled by a 35 pound gun, a five foot barrel, and ten shots. This will make them slow, ungainly, and lightly armed all simultaneosly, and will MAKE a counter-sniper's day.

Finally, most combat takes place under 300 meters. "Extreme sniping" is at 800. With good, match grade ammunition, your snipers could wing off targets with ease in any combat scenario. Sure, keep the BFGs for when they're needed, but don't issue them.

Heck, in urban combat, a sniper is often wasted, and a simple Designated Marksman will suffice, if you want to do that. (A DM is a soldier with a good rifle and scope, but pretty much the same as the others. IE: the Russian Dragunov.) Designated Marksman's Rifles [DMR] are designed to be accurate only to 300 or so, which leaves them lacking in sniper duel, but capable of most forms of combat.

It's up to you, but beware the "bigger is better" thought train.

I am aware of most points raised there, but I still need a cartridge that can pack a punch at 800m. Im sure you have heard of the rifle the IRA use in Belfast, it uses a .338 and is capable of blowing people several feet off the ground at 800m.

Hmph.. calibre.. well my sniper rifles use a 9x51mm rifle round. What is this sniper rifle for? For silenced, low range sniper rifles you can actually use 5.56x54, for mid range you can use 7.62x51, but for long range youll want something like a 12.7 or a battle rifle round.. I don't suggest putting a silencer on a 12.7+ though. Not a rifle, anyway.

We'll take 20

OOC: Yeah, the .338 Lapua is a RL creation, so I can't stop you using it if you want to (even though I RP Beth Gellert as an anarchist state covering Finland, which would never deliver the technology to anyone deemed less progressive).
As to comments on the Russian (and other) 12.7mm sniper-rifles... I don't think there's even sniper-grade munitions widely available for most of those. I could be wrong, but I believe they have still been employed against human targets... if nothing else, then in Chechnya to take-out fighters sheltering behind walls and things in the urban environments available. If sniper-grade munitions were available, perhaps there'd be an expanded utility in the much more warlike world of NS, for those who were prepared to pay for it. I mean, come on, large sniper bullets aren't a billionth the waste of a super-battleship.
Personally, I think it makes sense to have a 7.62mm sniper-rifle for most sniper-work, and something like a .338 for longer-range duty. Especially in NS, there may be a significiant call for an even larger anti-material type rifle, as well. BG uses the 11x72mm weapon I mentioned because we have a machinegun of that calibre, and at one time it seemed handy to have a short range high-power rifle that would always find ammo, even if it's not high-grade.
But I'm going on too long, now. Do whatever works for you, I suppose. I'm not sure about people getting blown off their feet... sounds a bit like a Hollywood-type myth... the IRA initially talked about their AR15s being able to hit a fellow in the arm and shatter every bone in his body, which was often believed but clearly utter bull.

Match grade ammunition is indeed available, at least for the NATO 12.7x99. Trying to fire non-match grade ammo at the ranges those rifles are used for would be at cross-purposes:

"Look, I can hit a target a mile away!"

"Oh, which target."

"Well, kinda random, really... but the bullet goes for a mile!"

OOC: Indeed, but if you see me a couple of hundred metres away pointing a Russian or Yugoslavian 12.7x107mm sniper-rifle at you and conclude that you probably can't get me with your AK before it's too late, how much confidence is it going to give you to duck back behind the burned-out car? Shooting without sniper-grade munitions has its utility, or it wouldn't happen for long. Apart from it being cheap.

But I'm not arguing for this rifle to be changed to a 12.7mm weapon. With high-quality munitions that might make the extremely powerful scope a bit less daft, but I still maintain that it simply makes sense to bring the scope down to somewhere between x3 and x8 or something, and to build a different rifle with a high-quality round somewhere between 7.62 and 12.7mm and a scope maybe up to x10 or so.

Still, there's nothing to say that NS militaries and governments have to see things my way, nor even that they have to make the right decisions, anyway!

No the IRA rifle can do it, they had one at Bisley at my A.C.F camp, we had a massive sack of rocks at 800m, and we shote it and it went flying backwards, the bag weighed 70 odd kg. Im going to use .338 because it gives the required kick.
And as to Cobra Global, order confirmed.

You'll get to test your sniper rifles in the war thread. ^-^

No the IRA rifle can do it, they had one at Bisley at my A.C.F camp, we had a massive sack of rocks at 800m, and we shote it and it went flying backwards, the bag weighed 70 odd kg. Im going to use .338 because it gives the required kick.
And as to Cobra Global, order confirmed.

OOC: Ah, yeah, but that's a sack of rocks. I'd imagine that the bullet is quite likely to, well, strike rock and throw it back rather than penetrating the lot. With a human being, I'd be surprised if the bullet didn't just make a hole, send a terrible shockwave through the cavities and organs, and burst out the other side, leading the person to fall down dead rather than flying through the air like a sack of rocks.
Still, really doesn't matter in terms of how dead the .338 makes a fellow!
I think I'll leave you alone, now :)

Bullets normally dont come out the other side cleanly. 80% hit and go down, my staff sergeants friend was killed in bosnia, got hit by a bullet, it worked its way down through his chest and out through his groin. Painful. Even the smallest bullets cause massive injuries. A .22 can put a hole the size of a dinner plate in you. Trust me, I shoot them all the time, damn those safety videos are sick!