NationStates Jolt Archive

After several years of research and testing upon the original Gan Ning Type I system the technicians and engineers have developed the Type II varient. After thorough testing it has begun to employed in the FASAN replacing the older Type I.

Name: Gan Ning Type IIg LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length 1st stage: 9.2m
Length 2nd stage: 8.2m
Wing span: 2.2m
Diameter: 0.79m
Range: 697 Km
Speed (After second stage initiated): Mach 2.8 (952 m/s)
Flight altitude: 10 m
Payload: 698 kg time delay HE warhead
Weight: 6,980 kg
Penetration: 640 mm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Active-radar/ anti radar
Propulsion: Two stage, rocket motor --> ramjet

1x ION Industries LK-32(i) Solid propellant rocket booster (4s burn)
1x Han Taik Aerospace SC-87Y Liquid propellant ramjet motor (Burns till target)

Max time to target: 732s (12 minutes)
Flight Path: Sea skimming
Launch Type: Ground, large ship based
Launch Method: Closed bottom launch-container
Launch angle: 15 to 90 degrees
Estimated price per unit: 2,800,000 USD



Description:

The Gan Ning Type II like its predesssor the Type I is a hypervelocity missile designed to puncture the hull of a ship at extreme range. Utilising a 900 kg HE warhead tosmash aside armour and bulkheads. The Type II uses a sea skimming attack stratagy. It is guided by GPS to a target point and once within 100km of that point it switches to active radar guidance. The Type II has also been upgraded with the ability to perform anti-radar roles.
In the Type II the problem with GPS communication dissallowing prolonged passage over land has been fixed.


Gan Ning launcher:

The Gan Ning launcher is the same as in the type I. Placed on the coast the launcher fires the missile at about sixteen degrees allowing it to gain a level flight path quickly, but since the rocket motor fire inside the tube the system must have high quality shock absorbers or a mis-launch will occur.
This system may also be placed on large ships.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lazyjim/GanNingTypeIILRSSM.png
OOC: So what do you think. Thoughts and suggestions please.

Bump

Anybody... anybody at all. Come on some one has to have a comment on it.

Last call before I decided that nobody has any complaints with it.

This thing is ridiculously over-ranged for an anti-ship missile-- that sort of range is normally what you'd see on an ICBM.

As such production costs are probably going to murder you if you use these in any great quantity.

well at 15m this thing technically is an ICBM, just one for use against ships.
and as for expensive it works on the one hit-one kill premise where my 950,000 USD missile takes out a nice two million+ USD boat so it pays for itself twice over.

Though i see you on the range thing. maybe half the range would be a good idea.

OoC: why is it nammed after a pirate? wouldn't Sun Jian, a pirate hunter, or Tiger of the Jiang Dong, be more accurate and sound cooler?

OoC: why is it nammed after a pirate? wouldn't Sun Jian, a pirate hunter, or Tiger of the Jiang Dong, be more accurate and sound cooler?

OOC* LOL I was just going to say the exact same thing.

Well because it was primarily designed for use at long range against enemy shipping convoys with little risk of immediate retaliation.
And anyway the name Gan Ning just seems right for it to me.
I might use one of those names for the shorter ranged varient,

(US$950,000 and a nearly 4,000km range at Mach 9+? Gosh. Presumably that's pretty far future tech, then? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that an ICBM doesn't cost less than a million dollars... does it? I dunno. Anyway, what's the flight profile of this thing? If it's an ICBM, presumably it goes into space and drops on its target? Will a thermobaric warhead survive re-entry? But it can't travel far over land, for some reason? So then... oh, and scramjets... so it's not a ballistic missile, after all? I'm confused. I think I'll just consider it beyond the modern realm and not have to worry anymore.)

If it's an ICBM then I guess the range and speed are okay, but an ICBM will only be accurate enough to take out a "superbattleship". A ship with huge sheets of armor will actually be easy to sink, though (The armor would just shear off when it takes some decent-sized missile hits...Really!), so you wouldn't need something this expensive. The delayed-penetration thermobaric warhead idea looks really interesting, though.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that an ICBM doesn't cost less than a million dollars... does it?More than forty million dollars in 2005 currency for an ICBM design more than two decades old...

You might want to notice that modern Anti-Shipping Cuise Missiles all have a range of around 150 km or less. Compared to that, your design is rediculous. I designed a three stage MRBM, and it has less range than this 'cruise' missile - using a SRV even! You need to drop the range to something closer to 600 km or less i9f anyone is going to take this design seriously.

Can your missile heavy damage or destroy Aircraft Carriers, Battleships, and Superdreadnaughts? Can it evade CIWS, evade dectection, and has a very high survivablity record.

You'd have better luck getting this by as a SCRAM-jet missile that's the size of an ICBM with that range.

Price is also nearly the same for a standard cruise missile.

Edit: Forgot to mention the scale up in size needed. BTW what heat protetion will it have anyways?

Ok so you want complaints eh? ok.

1. Price: Most anti-shipping missiles, believe it or not, are in the seven digit range. Then double that number for making it 15m and having SCRAMjet.

2. Flight-Profile: Using a SCRAMjet as a propellent means you will be traveling in the upper atmosphere. This means you will have a Ballistic trajectory and a hell of a heat signature. Mach 9 is somewhat feasible, but its not a good asset at this point.

3. Rediculously stupid length: You may say "At Mach 9, you won't have time to detect it!" well... yes we can. IR, LIDAR, and any RADAR will detect this missile. You could say that it will dodge an incoming missile, well... if your Gan Ning moves anywhere between 2" and a foot, it will rip itself apart. 15m + Mach 9 = bad structural integrity, especially since 12m of that 15 is prolly fuel.

4. Got no problem with Range, just means more time to react for us

5. Overestimation of penetration capability: At Mach 9, the missile itself will be traveling so fast, it will lose its strength, especially as it comes down. The heat will simply melt the metal, or compromise its strength to the point that penetration will be minimal.

6: Thermobaric l33tn355!!!!11!; Nope sorry. Ships have these things called Compartments. In this case, the doors would be automatically sealed, so yes the oxygen would be burnt off in that compartment, the damage localized. The low-pressure will not be enough to collapse the surrounding compartments if the ship was built in a half-way decent manner, or if the vessel has an improved NBC defence system.

7. You can and will miss even a battleship, as course-adjustments will be impossible. When you do so, the strength will be compromised limiting the amount of damage done anyways. (this only matters if you fire at your maximum range)

8. Scramjets will not fire within the tube, you need a booster to get to a certain speed and altitude before the SCRAMjet can even begin to work.

9. 10kg Thermobaric warhead is to small. The Russian Thermobaric munitions are several dozen kg's if not in the hundreds.

10. How the hell do you fit two SCRAMjets on a missile?

11. No ship costs $2,000,000, thats way too low. And this is a disateriously over-priced weapon to be using on merchant vessels. All you need is a long-range naval gun, or a cheap Harpoon to get that job done.

12. Your launch system will be huge.

13. Most ships won't be able to carry it, due to it being 50ft (49.2ft), and the ones that can, will not have very many. In NS, this is bad. The idea is saturation strikes in order to penetrate defences. Did you list the diameter? Cause if you post it, I can prolly make a 14th point.

Very interesting.

Ya, it seems that it wants to be good, but just can't operate or effectively kill.

Personally I'd look at upgrading the AGM-84 Harpoon if you want an effective kill weapon. Also the Harpon costs nearly half the amount for your missile and its range is still of 150 miles. A high-explosive warhead of nearly 500 pounds that can put a pretty good size hole in ships.

Ya, and it gets rid of the whole Takeoff from bomber or cargo plane then drop from 40,000 feet or so and then launch to kill. Your idea cannot even be fit on a ship since you need high speed to force oxygen into the SCRAM engine.

Though if you could tried really really hard with lots of funding you could make a modified SCRAM missile to launch from a ship with enough oxygen to let it get to a speed high enough to sustain the speed for it to operate and a large explosive. You MAY be able to attack things that are nearly sitting ducks, like ships in the harbor. Though going through all this would be hell for a small amount of missiles that aren't 'smart'. Personally I'd choose two AGM-84 Harpoons over one of your missiles even if it was possible! It can weigh around 1400 pounds, launch from a ship, have guidance, and be used effectively.

A harpoon is actually a lower-end ASM, I'd only recommend it for killing smaller targets that aren't worth your bigger ASM's. Use a Yakhont or Shipwreck against bigger ships like cruisers and up.

A harpoon is actually a lower-end ASM, I'd only recommend it for killing smaller targets that aren't worth your bigger ASM's. Use a Yakhont or Shipwreck against bigger ships like cruisers and up.

Would the super sonic FL-7's of China be a good kill of Frigates and Battleships all the way upto the Aircraft Carriers?

Though expensive and with a range of a mere 32 km they are dangerous.

Would the super sonic FL-7's of China be a good kill of Frigates and Battleships all the way upto the Aircraft Carriers?

Though expensive and with a range of a mere 32 km they are dangerous.

No, they arn't, considering that's well within the engagement envelope of an SM-2.

No, they arn't, considering that's well within the engagement envelope of an SM-2.

ASM-2 missile, what is the warhead on that? I haven't been able to find the weight and type of warhead for the missile, otherwise I'd use it. For ranged missiles I was primarily using Ying Ji-802 for ranged because it is infact of greater range then even the SM-2.

Okay all very intresting comments.
I think from what people say about the scram jets ill change them to a single rocket motor.

And for infomation the Gan Ning flies on a level flight path so it is not an ICBM
and does not go into the atmosphere.

Im going to drop the length down to 10m , the speed down to mach 7.5 and the range down to half.

The thermobaric warhead im going to up to 15kg and keep it. The previous version had normal explosive so im just trying things out. I think that compartalization would help dampen the effects of this but against carriers and frieghters I believe its still worth it.

Th price i think you are probably right and that it should be upped to around 3,500,000 USD per unit?

I dont want this to be FT or PMT but MT so please help me keep it that way.

Here are they updated stats.

Name: Gan Ning Type IIb LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length: 10m
Wing span: 1.6m
Range: 1,970 Km
Speed: Mach 7.5
Payload: 15kg Thermobaric warhead
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Radar
Propulsion: 1x ION Industries LK-86 Rocket motor
Estimated price per unit: 3,500,000 USD


This is great, please please keep your thought, complaints, gripes and suggestions coming. The more the better.

Here are they updated stats.

Name: Gan Ning Type II LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length: 10m
Wing span: 1.6m
Range: 1,970 Km
Speed: Mach 7.5
Payload: 15kg Thermobaric warhead
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Radar
Propulsion: 1x ION Industries LK-86 Rocket motor
Estimated price per unit: 3,500,000 USD


This is great, please please keep your thought, complaints, gripes and suggestions coming. The more the better.

Warhead is WAY too small. It's slightly over 30 pounds. A Harpoon missile is 488 pounds of explosive. This will not even cause any real damage, warhead is too small.

Now to increase effectiveness you need more explosives. Second, you need to reduce speed. Your missile will vaporize on impact. It is too hot and since its a ROCKET now, you are forced to have an oxider with the fuel. This increases the weight considerably. Liquid, solid and hybrid rockets are what you also have to go with. Most missiles use solid propellant.

Now using a rocket means it won't go Mach 7 anyways. Max I would say would be around 1.7-2.0 Mach. Though this is probably a little too fast. Mach 1.5 I suppose you could get away with, but why not just use a Harpoon then? I am not the expert on missiles, but I think it will be a far greater improvement.

Now with reduction to speed and engine systems you reduce the entire cost! I would work out a range, but it should be less then 200 miles, still that is an amazing range for a missile.

Now if you put, say 700 pounds of explosive in the missile and increase the size you will also need a launching platform. Research and effectiveness I would say, $200-300 million in testing and research for the missile. The platform, depending on how complex it can be can range from anything under $500,000 to $1,000,000 to install on an aircraft to launch. Ship technology would be about the same except you have a stable platform that doesn't need to perform any upgrades or changes with it.

Lose the 10 meter stuff. Make it 15-18 feet long. This will compensate for the increased range, speed and warhead. I'd put it at around 17 feet really.


Installing new missile systems can be expensive if your technology is different from existing missiles. If you have a special plane designed to use then it won't be a problem.

Now for fitting these large missiles on a plane, I'd figure two missiles max per fighter. F/A-18 or F/A-22 could fit these.

Basically all the info I can give. I hope it will be of some help.

Okay, intresting hmm. Are you sure that what you describe would be able to accomplish what I want, which is an anti-shipping missile capable of striking in the 900-1100 mile range?

If I wanted a harpoon like system I would get a harpoon. (Or my
own equiveliant)

And for the last time this is fired from a shore based launcher.

Okay, intresting hmm. Are you sure that what you describe would be able to accomplish what I want, which is an anti-shipping missile capable of striking in the 900-1100 mile range?

If I wanted a harpoon like system I would get a harpoon. (Or my
own equiveliant)

And for the last time this is fired from a shore based launcher.

I have no idea of any 900-1100 mile range missiles. It's a fuel thing.

Fuel + speed = more weight = larger size = more fuel = more weight = larger size...

Its a vicious cycle. Every time you extend the range you need more and more fuel to meet that range. Which means your missile will be more fuel then warhead. Defeating the purpose of the missile.

Now ICBMs and other long range missiles go into the atmosphere, but your against that.

Ram-jets needs a booster + altitude, which it can't have, impossible.

You want mach+ speed and range. While having a decent size warhead....after a range of say 200 miles it becomes a losing battle and won't seem practical.

If your so paranoid about the range of enemy boats, think missile cruisers. Which can launch from 2000 miles away and still strike. You can't have a missile travel that far and destroy. Well....least not by current standards.

You should really consider a cost/effect chart. Your concept missile is already over 7x that of the Harpoon system. Yet your warhead is completely useless. Speed is impractical and impossible.

I'm sorry, but I cannot help you design a missile to travel that range, with a kill power, be cost effective and not use ICBMs. Yet still be land operated.

The best my forces have is a 120 km missile, I don't have Harpoons for the shore....cause everything in that range is usually dead by then hehehe!

Why does everything have to be effective?? All I wanted was a missile capable of going the 1000 miles and hitting the target. I never said it had to actually be cost effective or be a good weapon.

In real life is every single weapon system ever designed 100% effective??
No.


Now all I want is a long ranged Anti shipping missile, and after listing to what people have had to say, I have decided that 500 miles is probably the best im going to get. So here is third incarnation of the stats.

Name: Gan Ning Type IIc LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length: 5.7m
Wing span: 1.3m
Range: 813 Km
Speed: Mach 3
Payload: 187kg Thermobaric warhead
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Radar
Propulsion: 1x ION Industries LK-36(i) Rocket motor
Estimated price per unit: 1,200,000 USD

Now please tell me what you think of this missile.

Why does everything have to be effective?? All I wanted was a missile capable of going the 1000 miles and hitting the target. I never said it had to actually be cost effective or be a good weapon.

In real life is every single weapon system ever designed 100% effective??
No.


Now all I want is a long ranged Anti shipping missile, and after listing to what people have had to say, I have decided that 500 miles is probably the best im going to get. So here is third incarnation of the stats.

Name: Gan Ning Type II LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length: 5.7m
Wing span: 1.3m
Range: 813 Km
Speed: Mach 3
Payload: 187kg Thermobaric warhead
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Radar
Propulsion: 1x ION Industries LK-36(i) Rocket motor
Estimated price per unit: 1,200,000 USD

Now please tell me what you think of this missile.

Little fast, but since its 3x more expensive I guess its ok. Way long range, but its also of considerable side. Closer to what I think is right. You might want to ask other people. Though its a vast improvement over the Mach 9.5, 15 kg warhead, ram-jet operated from land idea.

Thanks ill see what a few more people say.

ok, well:

A) It will miss.
B) The warhead is so small it won't do any damage.
C) Its a waste of money.

:rolleyes: Well that's what I like to call 'destructive' critisicsm.

Please dont treat me like an idiot. Im trying to make a plausible missile system here. I am not trying to make a 1334 H@Xx0r N00k to Pwnz Joo all !!111!!!11.

As you can see im not very good at designing missiles. That is why I have asked people to look at my designs and come up with critiscms and SUGGESTIONS on how to make it better.

So if you would like to supply reasons for your comments and maybe even grace my poor little soul with a little suggestion or two, I would be eternally grateful.

But your not actually listening to the criticism.

A) It will miss. - Mach 7.5 still to fast, will rip apart your missile. Drop it to Mach 2-3 and it will also increase range to about 900km (Thats the max I will give you. Slower = longer range more fuel effeciency)
B) The warhead is so small it won't do any damage. The Thermobaric warhead is just too small to cause any amount of damage, even to a Carrier. With no penetrating warhead, it won't get far enough into do any major damage... if any minor damage either.
C) Its a waste of money. Using this missile for the sole purpose of flinging metal at another ship is absolutely pointless. You want this missile to be effecient and effective because that means you will cause casualties. etc.

Ok thank you.

A) I already changed it to mach 3 under katja's advice and currant range is 813 Km

B) How about a shaped charge pre warhead to bust the armour and then the thermobaric to explode inside?

C) I'm beggining to understand this and I need yours and others help to get me there.

Actually Artitsa after rereading your post I now believe you didnt read the third set of stats I made. So I will post them again.


Name: Gan Ning Type IIc LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length: 5.7m
Wing span: 1.3m
Range: 813 Km
Speed: Mach 3
Payload: 187kg Thermobaric warhead
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Radar
Propulsion: 1x ION Industries LK-36(i) Rocket motor
Estimated price per unit: 1,200,000 USD


I believe that if it had enough speed that it could punch through light-to-medium ship armour and then detonate the warhead inside. Please tell me what speed I would need to achieve this.

The 187kg Thermobaric warhead should be enough to burn out at least one compartment on a prepared ship or destroy a whole carrier hanger deck.
this is beacuse the warhead is now only a tiny bit samller than that Harpoon you were advising me to get,

For the above reasons I beive that it could be a vaiable weapon (If someone would be nice enough to help me fine tune the stats) if not nesceserilly a good one.

Okay ive done a little research and here is a fourth stat line please tell me what you think.

Name: Gan Ning Type IId LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length 1st stage: 9.2m
Length 2nd stage: 6.2m
Wing span: 2.3m
Diameter: 0.69m
Range: 475 Km
Speed (After second stage initiated): Mach 3.8
Flight altitude: 10m
Payload:436kg Thermobaric warhead
Weight: 2380kg
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Active-radar
Propulsion: Two stage, rocket motor --> ramjet
1x ION Industries LK-36(i) Solid propellant rocket booster (7s burn)
1x Han Taik Aerospace SC-87Y Liquid propellant ramjet motor (Burns till target)
Launch Type: Ground, large ship based
Launch Method: Closed bottom launch-container
Launch angle: 20 to 75 degrees
Estimated price per unit: 1,800,000 USD

Okay ive done a little research and here is a fourth stat line please tell me what you think.

Name: Gan Ning Type II LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length 1st stage: 9.2m
Length 2nd stage: 6.2m
Wing span: 2.3m
Diameter: 0.69m
Range: 475 Km
Speed (After second stage initiated): Mach 3.8
Payload:436kg Thermobaric warhead
Weight: 2380kg
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Active-radar
Propulsion: Two stage, rocket motor --> ramjet
1x ION Industries LK-36(i) Solid propellant rocket booster (7s burn)
1x Han Taik Aerospace SC-87Y Liquid propellant ramjet motor (Burns till target)
Launch Type: Ground, large ship based
Launch Method: Closed bottom launch-container
Launch angle: 20 to 75 degrees
Estimated price per unit: 1,800,000 USD

OK....umm now this is a massive upgrade, but it is still impractical and impossible. I like the changes on the type, but here's a few things.

You don't want to be a high arc weapon correct? That means you can't do a ram-jet design at all. They need a booster stage to the altitude and speed sufficent for launching them.

OK assuming you have the booster get to ram-jet operating speed and power here's the problem. One you need enough fuel for the booster and enough speed to get into the sky in 7 seconds at that speed. Now this I think is a little off. 6000 ft a second climb....not good.

Now if you wanted to....you could do a Pegasus rocket type of launch system from a trailer, the original Orion engines were meant to do that for an ICBM. Now if you scale it up a little more you could have it reach Mach 4 at around 90,000 feet you can launch the second part, the ram-jet for a speed of greater then Mach 6.5, maybe you COULD press 9 actually.

Article here supports it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/07/020711075955.htm

The range would be much smaller, unless you made a large missile. Now if you could have a warhead that maybe has a time-delay and is capable of punching through the ship, this could be like one-hit kills.

I dunno what to say, but like it or not to get that speed you WILL need a ram-jet and it will perform at a high-altitude. You kinda flip-flopped on what you wanted. Though this weapon here will have a long arc, that might be a good thing. It's going to go too fast to stop really. Unless...Metal Storm.

Hmm.
This fourth version is basically a beefed up version of the P-800 Yakhont
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ss-n-26.htm

Im sorry i dont know much about this but are you saying that to use a ramjet that the missile must be at very high altitude?

Hmm.
This fourth version is basically a beefed up version of the P-800 Yakhont
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ss-n-26.htm

Im sorry i dont know much about this but are you saying that to use a ramjet that the missile must be at very high altitude?

Well I am not good at ram-jets, but I would say for all purposes, a high-altitude.

Well then I would have to go with the infomation I have based this off and have a flight altitude of 10m since im using exactly the same propulsion system as the
Yakhont.

So other tahn the Flight altitude do you have any other comments??

Well then I would have to go with the infomation I have based this off and have a flight altitude of 10m since im using exactly the same propulsion system as the
Yakhont.

So other tahn the Flight altitude do you have any other comments??

10 miles right...?

Ya, don't forget to make sure it cannot easily be jammed that will ruin it.

Though it will basically dive bomb from above, giving better accuracy and also punching through the decks and then exploding. This can cripple ships and if small, completely destroy them. Slam one of these babies through an aircraft carrier and she might lose her catapult systems. Or one right on the tower...WHAM out of comission!

Since it has really been done already it will be a little easier to pass for that. Just make sure, you want it to pierce armor, have a time-delay then EXPLODE! You want the missile to go into the ship and blow up in the lower decks. Since explosions can go out and up the ship will take a massive amount of damage depending on where it hits and how hard.

Face it, low altitude is a stupid idea at that speed. Though if you calculate the speed and position of the target from above you will be able to hit a weaker part of ships from above. Since the speed is so great and you can practically slam this down on them at 80+ degrees most anti-missile systems won't be able to intercept it or be able to fire straight up in the air! It makes your missile pretty unique.

Accuracy for this is pretty up to your GPS and tracking technology, also the target either has to accelerate very fast and KNOW its coming to avoid this or hope that it can be intercepted.

This would be an awesome first strike on nations ships while they are still in the docks. You could use these on ships, though the number will be small, you can effectively smash fleets while they prepare for war. Or hit them while still in the Naval yards.

The missile can also be easily turned into an anti-tank and base destroying cruise missile. For all purposes, this is NOT an anti-aircraft weapon. It cannot manuver, for that use it would be pathetic.

Ok thanks.
So you think a ballistic trajectory is the best way to go?

Im going to give ot time delay penetration and get rid of the stupid cant go over land thing.

So with those two points do you think it is good to go??

Ok thanks.
So you think a ballistic trajectory is the best way to go?

Im going to give ot time delay penetration and get rid of the stupid cant go over land thing.

So with those two points do you think it is good to go??

Ya. You would want a high arc anyways. When you attack ships you don't want to hit the side armor usually. That is the thickest part of the ships. Since it is also usually double hulled with water tight compartments it won't sink from just one on large ships. Though you hit a battleship gun with this and its out. Hit a carrier you can destroy its ability to have planes take off and land by slamming one in the center. Its got some nice advantages over all. A normally easy to spot and destroy attack is now too fast to knock out and jamming won't work well because its going to be unable to really move much going at Mach 6.5+ so it won't matter! It will still either slam into the ship or the water.

Fifth and hopefully final version.

Name: Gan Ning Type IIe LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length 1st stage: 9.2m
Length 2nd stage: 6.2m
Wing span: 2.3m
Diameter: 0.69m
Range: 475 Km
Speed (After second stage initiated): Mach 3.8
Flight altitude: 16 km
Payload: 436kg time delay thermobaric warhead
Weight: 2380kg
Penetration: 91 cm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Active-radar
Propulsion: Two stage, rocket motor --> ramjet

1x ION Industries LK-36(i) Solid propellant rocket booster (16s burn)
1x Han Taik Aerospace SC-87Y Liquid propellant ramjet motor (Burns till target)

Launch Type: Ground, large ship based
Launch Method: Closed bottom launch-container
Launch angle: 35 to 90 degrees
Estimated price per unit: 1,800,000 USD



Description:

The Gan Ning Type II like its predesssor the Type I is a hypervelocity missile designed to puncture the upper hull of a ship at extreme range, this is achieved by using a rocket booster to followa ballstic arc from the launch point to get suffecient height for the ramjet to work. The missile then ejects its booster and engages the ramjet and proceeds to a targeted GPS point. When within 16km of this point the missile engages active radar, upon finding a suitble target the missile will then nose dive straight down on top of it.
Unlike the Type I the Type II then detonates a 436kg thermobaric bomb inside the hull of the ship which will act just like thermobaric bombs do in caves only more focused and the air presssure inside the ship will have the possibility to burst open an unprepared ship's hull like a balloon.
In the Type II the problem with GPS communication dissallowing prolonged passage over land has been fixed.


Gan Ning launcher:

The Gan Ning launcher is the same as in the type I. Placed on the coast the launcher fires the missile at about sixty degrees allowing it to gain height quickly, but since the rocket motor fire inside the tube the system must have high quality shock absorbers or a mis-launch will occur.
This system may also be placed on large ships.

Very nice. Looks good. For each variation of missile, type, change I usually give names like Type A, B, C...etc or number varients. This not only means you have a database of past experiments, but it sounds cool that people can actually check and see that you discarded and changed the plans several times to get the right stats. Generally this also can make it more accepted instead of putting out random stats and firing them at people....like one person I know.

ok thank you

ok thank you

Oh! The Germans used the naming with a jet aircraft. The M163 I think it was. The thing is the name came up as a small civilian plane and if intelligence reports came in or they were spied on the M163 designation on the plane would match a civilian craft. Now I doubt that any nation really would try that again, just not the same conditions that existed before WWII.

skipping the rest of the posts here, but the fourth looked fine. Whats this bullshit about RAMjets only working in upper-atmospheres? Well why don't you walk upto the Yakhont or Shipwreck designers and tell them that their missiles are impossible.

Good warhead size, Im still wary of the thermobaric, but its preference, it'll prolly work just fine. Now with a ballistic flight path, that puts you into easy engagement for ship defences. You could go sea-skim for the trip, and the terminal phase it could pop up and strike the deck. I have a varient of my AM-98 for that.

skipping the rest of the posts here, but the fourth looked fine. Whats this bullshit about RAMjets only working in upper-atmospheres? Well why don't you walk upto the Yakhont or Shipwreck designers and tell them that their missiles are impossible.

Good warhead size, Im still wary of the thermobaric, but its preference, it'll prolly work just fine. Now with a ballistic flight path, that puts you into easy engagement for ship defences. You could go sea-skim for the trip, and the terminal phase it could pop up and strike the deck. I have a varient of my AM-98 for that.

I'm no expert on ram-jets, but the problem is the increased fuel. Obviously a already stretched run for fuel and space. It has two stages and yet can you please tell me a GOOD way not to run into anti-missile defense systems.

It can dive right on the ships at angles that exceed the limits of most ships. (Angle of launch). They won't have guns shoot directly up in the air at 90 degrees. Now for missiles....if its coming down on you from above at Mach 6+ how can you counter it in time with conventional systems.

If the missile is traveling along the sea, not only fuel consumption will be greater, but the 'target' area will be smaller.

Ships on the horizon look like this:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/ru_kiev_line1.gif

Ok, that's pretty small...not to mention the armor is angled and very thick here. Now here comes are missile. At a low arc for what it can be. Suddenly the target area is massive by comparison! More area to hit that lovely deck or even smash directly into the center of operations!

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/kiev-DNST8204652.JPG

Instead of causing considerable damage to the super structure of the ship, it can blow through the deck and make the carrier usless to launch planes, or land them. Hitting the top of the tower or somewhere around the bridge of the ship will finish the effectiveness of this ship to. Destroy its communications or kill its ability to function.

I've got a soft spot for high-arc missiles on smashing through the typical NS super-ships that are created to practically shrug off heavy attacks. Even those SD's use heavy armor to defeat conventional missiles.

I think the missile stands a much better chance of working by diving in and slamming it rather then trying to puncture through the side of the ship. This thing has nearly no ability to realign. That means at the top of its arc it can align easier and lightly change direction as needed. From the distance it can move to realign for slower, heavier ships. Now if you want a low to the sea missile you have a very small ability to control it, it will already be hitting max speed and won't be able to turn as easily. From above a slight change could change the angle to match a change of speed. If its too low it wouldn't be able to react as much because while distance may be the same the missile diving in won't need to change direction as much as the low to the ground one. Changing the angle will give it a boost in comparison and allow for greater accuracy.

I hope that made some sense.

Okay, a few things:

1) Ramjets: ramjets are effective for high speed flight at low and high altitudes. However, they have a limited window of efficiency (Mach 3-5 at altitude). Any slower, and more conventional engine types such as turbofans are more efficient, and any faster, and they can't operate. The purpose of the Scramjet is to provide a ramjet-type engine capable of pulling speeds over mach 5.
The soviet missiles maintain a speed of up to Mach 3 at high altitude and Mach 2.2 or so at low altitude. Increasing speed beyond that will have notably adverse effects on range. Digging up info on the P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) would be a good place to start for stats, as this is quite close in role to that weapon.

2) Ramjets are not Scramjets, and do not need supersonic flight to initiate. Ramjets can be initiated at speeds as low as Mach 0.4, meaning that even big missiles don't need that much of a booster. Besides, it needs to be shorter anyway considering the diameter. That kind of length to diameter ratio will likely result in serious instability problems.

3) The penetration is a bit high. I might see 650mm or so, but 910mm seems a bit far-fetched for the weapon as it is.

4) Though Artista has mentioned, thermobaric warheads are, for the most part, ineffective against naval vessels. They have the construction needed to withstand such blasts, so the only real value of such warheads is detonating outside the vessel to damage or destroy external systems (sensors, communications, CIWS, turrets, gun & missile systems, etc). For an antiship weapon, you just want a simple demolition-type high explosive, which will cause the most damage for its size. With a thermobaric weapon, you need to hit either a very small vessel (frigate or lower), a civilian unit, or a ship carrying loads of combustibles like fuel or munitions. Finally, thermobaric weapons don't initiate that well in small confined spaces like you'll find on most ships. They need room for the vapor to spread before initiating.
This is also way too light for what's provided. Judging from the current dimensions and such, I'd say closer to 8000 kg.

5) The price looks to be a bit too low. If this is to have much in the way of guidance and power, I'd put it at around $2.5 million a pop at least, possibly more.



Edit:
6) for the previous post: for a missile to dive down like that it must first fly, at high altitude, to a point close enough that it can do so. Such a flight profile is very easy to intercept with SAMs, and is why such missiles tend to be known as SAM bait. In fact, several earlier AShMs flew like that. Most have since been removed from service due to ineffectiveness against modern air defenses.

Name: Gan Ning Type IIf LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length 1st stage: 8.2m
Length 2nd stage: 7.2m
Wing span: 2.2m
Diameter: 0.79m
Range: 675 Km
Speed (After second stage initiated): Mach 2.8 (952 m/s)
Flight altitude: 10 m
Payload: 850kg time delay HE warhead
Weight: 3,880 kg
Penetration: 640 mm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Active-radar/ anti radar
Propulsion: Two stage, rocket motor --> ramjet

1x ION Industries LK-32(i) Solid propellant rocket booster (4s burn)
1x Han Taik Aerospace SC-87Y Liquid propellant ramjet motor (Burns till target)

Max time to target: 155 s (8 minutes)
Flight Path: Low flying
Launch Type: Ground, large ship based
Launch Method: Closed bottom launch-container
Launch angle: 15 to 90 degrees
Estimated price per unit: 2,800,000 USD

Description:

The Gan Ning Type II like its predesssor the Type I is a hypervelocity missile designed to puncture the hull of a ship at extreme range. Utilising a 900 kg HE warhead tosmash aside armour and bulkheads. The Type II uses a sea skimming attack stratagy. It is guided by GPS to a target point and once within 100km of that point it switches to active radar guidance. The Type II has also been upgraded with the ability to perform anti-radar roles.
In the Type II the problem with GPS communication dissallowing prolonged passage over land has been fixed.


Gan Ning launcher:

The Gan Ning launcher is the same as in the type I. Placed on the coast the launcher fires the missile at about sixteen degrees allowing it to gain a level flight path quickly, but since the rocket motor fire inside the tube the system must have high quality shock absorbers or a mis-launch will occur.
This system may also be placed on large ships.


How about that. Ive looked up the granat and seen some other of its type.

bump. anyone?

So people think that this version is fine?

OOC: I'd work a bit on the warhead-weight ratio. Generally the whole missile should be at least 8 times the weight of the warhead it carries (most supersonic sea-skimmers have less than 10% of their weight in the warhead). It's one of the prices you pay for high speed at low altitude.

Name: Gan Ning Type IIg LRSSM Anti-Shipping missile
Length 1st stage: 9.2m
Length 2nd stage: 8.2m
Wing span: 2.2m
Diameter: 0.79m
Range: 697 Km
Speed (After second stage initiated): Mach 2.8 (952 m/s)
Flight altitude: 10 m
Payload: 698 kg time delay HE warhead
Weight: 6,980 kg
Penetration: 640 mm of reinforced steel
Guidance: GPS--> Active-radar/ anti radar
Propulsion: Two stage, rocket motor --> ramjet

1x ION Industries LK-32(i) Solid propellant rocket booster (4s burn)
1x Han Taik Aerospace SC-87Y Liquid propellant ramjet motor (Burns till target)

Max time to target: 732s (12 minutes)
Flight Path: Sea skimming
Launch Type: Ground, large ship based
Launch Method: Closed bottom launch-container
Launch angle: 15 to 90 degrees
Estimated price per unit: 2,800,000 USD


How about this version?

With pic yay!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lazyjim/GanNingTypeIILRSSM.png

So im thinking the g will be the fianl version, any thoughts anybody??

OOC: Looks good to me.

Yay finally. Thanks to everyone who helped especially CSMJ and Kajta