NationStates Jolt Archive

I object to the title. The OMP hasnt said that it is against AMF, or even that it will support Hogsweat. In fact the OMP has played no official role in this incident at all :/

EDIT: And what the hell is wrong with Jolt... how is this post #1 whereas AMF's post is #2 and he made the thread :S

Alrighty, here is the OOC only thread for this RP: Breaking News: AMF aggressively expands territory (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434675)

Now, there are a few things I would like to discuss.

Hogsweat took the liberty of having islands magically appear out of nowhere some 8km away from my new territorial claim. Had I known these were existing islands, my forces probably would have kept their distance and went about their business as usual.

This is the basis for the whole AMF vs The OMP agrument that is happening ICly. I am not one to whine about an RP with some of NS's finest, but there needs to be some understanding here. Off the cuff territory appearing just outside where my forces are stationed that lands me in IC hot water is not something I'm particularly fond of, and I should have been contacted before hand.

I'm perfectly willing to work something out, because this RP was originally meant for another purpose.

It's true that this is perhaps a rather unrealistic situation. On the other hand, it might have been better if you'd objected to it as soon as Hogsweat posted (he wouldnt have minded deleting / editting his post). I hate to say it, but it's a little late now...

How about we agree not to escalate it beyond what is already deployed / scheduled to be deployed, and not start some massive general war between about 10 different nations which will inevitably collapse into a mess?

EDIT: Jolt had to go and screw up just my posts, didnt it? :rolleyes:

Hence the question marks, Prae. A lot of OMP nations are involved, so I don't think the title for an OOC thread is something to worry about.

:rolleyes:

And yes, Jolt is going loco.

I do agree that soem sort of consultation might have been a good idea and the random appearance of the islands would be a little odd, i hardly think that AMF would have failed to notice such a chain in his back yard.

Yes this could be a good RP but i woudl rahter it gets off on abeter footing and doesn't distract any of us from other plans or comitments.

Crookfur
(signed on as my AMW nation).

I definitely agree that this RP has promise, but that it also shows signs of completely deteoriating into something ugly.

So long as OMP countries do not commit an aggressive act (which Hogsweat has done by firing), we have a Charter-bound obligation to defend each other. If an OMP country provokes military action, we're not obligated to risk our sons and daughters to defend an aggressive country. However, Sarzonia also has separate agreements with specific OMP countries (notably Praetonia and Isselmere) where we would go to war with ANYONE who threatens them if the need arose.

Frankly, the only things that get in Sarzonia's craw ICly are the expansion of maritime territory past internationally prescribed limits and the statements you made to Praetonia. They could be viewed by the Sarzonian government as being overly provocative and I think could lead to some diplomatic repurcussions. If you're going off to war with someone who isn't OMP and you don't restrict freedom of the seas, Sarzonia wouldn't get involved.

OoC: Seeing as I kind of already participated in the other thread, I agree this has great promise but also great possible difficulty. Praetonia (and maybe others, he's just a perfect example) and AMF have very different styles.

Praetonia likes strategic combat with nice story in which you can actively win a conflict without addressing the other player beforehand (correct me if I'm wrong Prae), AMF has the same but without the strategic (much like me) and winning (I fear I'll get slapped if I get too cocky!).

However, if we can work around these two starkly different but equally respectable styles, we'll be fine.

And AMF, could you hop onto AIM?

Prae, might want to post under a puppet and contact the mods.

I didn't write it of because I didn't know where he was going with it. Had I known I might have suggested that his islands be a little further out. I have no objection to them being close, just not too close.

I'd kinda have to disagree there Krieg, I use strategy quite frequently. I coordinate my infantry, armor and artillery (for an example) using good strategy and cunning tactics as best I can, but I seldom focus on 'winning'.

I will off work between 5pm and 6pm central time (everyday, so you know when to catch me). I'm currently still working.

OoC: Oh okay, I don't mean to be rude but could you give me an example? From what I've read of you, you seem to be mainly story and characters rather than manoeuvres and numbers.

OoC: Oh okay, I don't mean to be rude but could you give me an example? From what I've read of you, you seem to be mainly story and characters rather than manoeuvres and numbers.

Story, characters, tactics.

I almost never get into technical stats or exact numbers, I usually leave it up to the story to decide the outcome of a battle. I rely on writing skills and cunning decisions to 'win' battles, not numbers or weapons specs.

Hope that helps.

Story, characters, tactics.

I almost never get into technical stats or exact numbers, I usually leave it up to the story to decide the outcome of a battle. I rely on writing skills and cunning decisions to 'win' battles, not numbers or weapons specs.

Hope that helps.
That's the main difference between us because I believe (as is borne out by history) that technology is important and technology differences can be decisive. But Im still willing to RP with people who dont have much of their forces actualyl written out. Anyway yes if this post doesnt work either I'll post on technical.

Prae has a good point, one hundred swordsmen versus a Challenger II battle tank will result in the swordsmen dead more often than not, cunning doesn’t have anything to do with it as if the swordsmen sneak up try and plant a trap, the challenger just detonates its ERA and shreds the poor bastards.

I personally don't mind losing as it means I get to describe the mayhem, you get the boring job and I get the juicy part! :)

I agree that story should dictate who wins and loses though, however, twists and turns can make for interesting reading.

Prae has a good point, one hundred swordsmen versus a Challenger II battle tank will result in the swordsmen dead more often than not, cunning doesn’t have anything to do with it as if the swordsmen sneak up try and plant a trap, the challenger just detonates its ERA and shreds the poor bastards.

Swords are last resort weapons to me, so they would naturally find some way of destroying the tank. Although those Challenger II's are quite sturdy....

I personally don't mind losing as it means I get to describe the mayhem, you get the boring job and I get the juicy part! :)

Agreed. But two well seasoned writers going at it always makes for good story, on both sides.

I agree that story should dictate who wins and loses though, however, twists and turns can make for interesting reading.

Agreed. I always like to mix it up and stay one step ahead of everybody, that way I can throw a few surprises out in the open that keeps the reader hooked and the story spicy.

Peace peace, my Kingdom for some peace! Imma say it here right now, this war is going to Hell in a handbasket with fancy wrapping around it. I'm willing to host a peace conference for this mess.

The fact that I've read the occasional person wanting to start a fight or nuke Automagfreek's SDs just because they don't like him, clearly there is a danger of this becoming rather clogged up with people who just don't like AMF...

Though if I were to stick on point I would agree that Hogsweat just, you know, owning land near Automagfreek without even RPing it previously is rather bad form. Yes, I have no issue with people wanting to surprise others with RP and not work it out first... I have respect for that. But the problem here is that this island has just popped into existance for Hogsweat's convenience. Had it existed previously and everyone knew about it then the situation would never have occured.

If Automagfreek is up for it or the two of them sort it out then there is no problem... but if Automagfreek doesn't want to accept it then I support him, I wouldn't except it myself and I doubt many other nations would accept it during an exspansion thread, it's close to a godmod, and were it not for the fact I respect Hogsweat I would call it a godmod, but I'm sure the two of them can work it out... I'm just saying that personally I fully agree with AMF about the bad form that it represents.

Well, Im between here. 250km's is not a small distance. So yes, you will run into Islands controlled by other people.

However, AMF, I'd just like to note, I have 108 heavy mines under your fleet... specifically SD.... anyways. I say we just leave it as is, no one apologizes, everyone just moves away. I don't anyone wants to lose face.

Let me get this straight. This is taking place near AMF, not anywhere near Hogsweat/Haven, right?

Well, Im between here. 250km's is not a small distance. So yes, you will run into Islands controlled by other people.

There are a number of nations which claim easily around 200km of territorial waters around their nation, hell, if we're going to get into Haven and how they do things, you'll notice that they actually have a treaty which states that each signatory will agree to only take up to 200km of water around their nation, with nations like Scandavian States even stating once that they will entend that to include their islands... though it was in dispute among Haven nations.

This isn't about what AMF can and can't claim... thats an IC problem, but to suddenly, out of no where, just happen to own an Island 258km away from a nation who only just declared they are exending their territorial waters to 250km you have to really think that it isn't a matter of "Sure, there are bound to be islands there" it's a matter of OOCly changing the geography to legitimately make Automagfreek's thread problematic without looking like the badguy.

It's bad form and if it was anyone else I would use the word "godmod", but I personally think that Hogsweat wouldn't stoop to such underhand methods just to get one over on AMF, I would like to think that it was done to make things more interesting and not to spite another player OOCly... in which case it's a matter of whether AMF is willing to except the convenient new claim.

Had Hogsweat RPed this Island before this thread happened, I would be on his side, as in that case the two of them would have had a chance to work it all out and they would both know that Island is there and there would be no OOC arguement... but the case is that it just appeared for this thread and didn't exist until this thread happened.

I don't know about you, but I can't see how AMF is in the wrong on this point.
Let me get this straight. This is taking place near AMF, not anywhere near Hogsweat/Haven, right?
Unless Automagfreek is the newest edition to the Haven region, I can't see it being a Haven matter... Hogsweats land in this case seems to just exist for the purpose of this thread, as far as I know, Automagfreek's main nation (where this is taking place) is a large Island with alot of open water around it within a region near their allies.

It doesn't make sense that Hogsweat happens to own a small island near them unless they are staging points for attacking Automagfreek, in which case the whole moving in should have taken place... given modern technology I don't see how Hogsweat, a nation in a totally different region, would own a island near another nation who would have had alot of opportunity to chart it (being much closer to their nation) and claim it or at least stop others from taking it for security reasons.

All in all, Hogsweat could only really get away with it if he convinces Automagfreek, because I don't see how they could have owned an island there in that way...

However, AMF, I'd just like to note, I have 108 heavy mines under your fleet... specifically SD.... anyways.


I'm going to call BS on that. Please tell me how these 108 heavy mines were placed in the water. Tell me how they got past my submarine defense net. If they were dropped by ship, tell me how the ship managed to drop these mines so that they are under my fleet. And lastly, tell me why I should not ICly know about that many mines underneath my ships. I'm sure SONAR and LIDAR could pick up that many large mines.

Perhaps might I suggest that the two key nations resolve this issue and decide upon another issue far less controversial on which they and/or their allies can disagree, as the case might be? Given the diplomatic tensions this is causing, it is inevitable some bad feelings, IC-wise, would be left over.

Maybe you didn't see it... I posted it earlier today. Would you like the link, cause I believe you posted after it. Therefore I simply figured you had not noticed it. Which is also why I informed you in the ooc thread rather than just kill your ships.

EDIT: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9367463&postcount=56
There ya go... posted at 12:30pm... forum time. Its now 11:30pm forum time.

Maybe you didn't see it... I posted it earlier today. Would you like the link, cause I believe you posted after it. Therefore I simply figured you had not noticed it. Which is also why I informed you in the ooc thread rather than just kill your ships.

EDIT: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9367463&postcount=56
There ya go... posted at 12:30pm... forum time. Its now 11:30pm forum time.

Ok, that explains how they got in the water. But you DO realize that most SD's (mine inluded) have underwater CIWS and countermeasures, right? So essentially once those mines get near enough to my ships they're done for. Because I have these defenses, I'm not simply going to allow them to drift along underneath my ships unnoticed.

LIDAR doesnt work underwater, and you would be fairly lucky to detect the mines (as mines are generally small) unless you were specifically looking for them (which I assume you are not). In any case, it's unlikely that a fleet that large could get through a minefield without expending a considerable amount of time and effort finding and destorying the mines, most likely having lost a destroyer or two. I also find your shooting down of 250 SCRAMjet deck-attack missiles with CIWS guns somewhat enthusiastic.

LIDAR doesnt work underwater, and you would be fairly lucky to detect the mines (as mines are generally small) unless you were specifically looking for them (which I assume you are not). In any case, it's unlikely that a fleet that large could get through a minefield without expending a considerable amount of time and effort finding and destorying the mines, most likely having lost a destroyer or two. I also find your shooting down of 250 SCRAMjet deck-attack missiles with CIWS guns somewhat enthusiastic.

Almost my entire navy is out there, consisting of hundreds of ships (which guess what, some of them are mine detector ships [which any sensible navy has]. They DO exist in RL). Those 250 missiles were not all launched at once, in fact I'm willing to wager that only a small handfull were launched at the same time. So, you have probably half a dozen or less missiles versus hundreds of ships, each with advanced countermeasures and defenses. There are dozens of ships shooting at a single missle at once, so no, I don't think it's unrealistic at all.

I've given Hogsweat many liberties in this thread, and if destroying his missiles seems unfair, then chalk this up to a liberty that I am taking.

Normally I do not mind if people take simple liberties in RP's with me. Such as assuming that my leaders landing their planes and have arrived at a conference hall, allowing people the benefit of the doubt if there's ever any confusion, and sometimes I even let people RP the actions of my characters (Pantera is one of the only people I allow to do this though). But one thing that has me tensing my lip is allowing islands that contain military bases to appear out of nowhere, after I have announced my expansion. I'm not too plese that I have to put a prior storyline on hold to deal with Hogsweat and company now.

Alright let's clear something up.
I placed those islands there NOT in the intent of putting them there and claiming that AMF had expanded into my land. The thought of putting them there for that purpose NEVER sprang into my head.
About the mines, I just suggest that Artitsa imagine the mines were never dropped and that clears that up.
About the missiles, that's fine too. I don't *want* to win this RP, I just want to have a little fun. I don't care if none of my missiles hit tbh. Considering that I was the one that interfered with the original roleplay and started the war and that AMF accepted it, is already good enough for me.
If you dont' want to continue, that's fine by me.
Now can we please stop the bickering that goes with every II RP and try to do something properly?

I placed those islands there NOT in the intent of putting them there and claiming that AMF had expanded into my land. The thought of putting them there for that purpose NEVER sprang into my head.

You have to understand how it looks, if it's just a matter of you wanting a small fight with Automagfreek of little consquence then you may want to tell the others that seeing as they are using your instantly spawned islands as a reason to make Automagfreek in the wrong and drag the thread down into an inevitablely large conflict.

Like I said, I trusted that you didn't do it just to spite AMF, but others are using it for that perpose. So long as Automagfreek is content to accept the island just for a little side conflict then there isn't a problem and I'm sure there will have to be conditions surrounding it (like asking others to stop dog-piling in on the excuse that Hogsweat land is being invaded), at least it's good to see you are willing to accept that he may just choose to ignore it.

Now can we please stop the bickering that goes with every II RP and try to do something properly?

Not surprisingly, the last time this happened I kept pretty much all my comments ICly during diplomacy... I would be doing this in this thread but I can't really comment until the situation is cleared up because obvicously there is a problem if he's expanding into territory which isn't his and OOCly I have an issue with the way it was done.

Personally I can see the middle ground here being something along the lines of those Island's existing but Hogsweat not officially owning them, which works if we assume Hogsweat is secretly building a base on a Island near AMF for a possible strategic position without their knowledge... this would mean that you should basically remove arguement from some people who are using these instantly spawned islands which can't be legimate as a reason to protect their ally who in reality could only be there if they were secretly doing something they shouldn't be.

Get rid of the idea that you legimately own these islands and hopefully we'll stop getting people abusing the situation. I'm sure AMF wouldn't take it beyond removing the threat and having poor relations with Hogsweat, but they shouldn't need to take it further then the inevitable skirmish...

Truth be told, that 250 nm limit thing was a reason I was interested in possibly expanding to either an AMF-Sarzonia war (which I've seen people say they'd want to see) or at least some international namecalling that leads to diplomatic and economic repurcussions (not that there are even extant relations between AMF and Sarzonia, but you get the idea). But a dogpile is my big pet peeve about NS roleplaying and I don't want a massive dogpile on either side.

Truth be told, that 250 nm limit thing was a reason I was interested in possibly expanding to either an AMF-Sarzonia war (which I've seen people say they'd want to see) or at least some international namecalling that leads to diplomatic and economic repurcussions (not that there are even extant relations between AMF and Sarzonia, but you get the idea). But a dogpile is my big pet peeve about NS roleplaying and I don't want a massive dogpile on either side.

Do you know off the coast of Alaska the US claimed a 200nm exclusionary zone for fishing?

I don't see why everyone makes such a big deal when it comes to nautical claims. NS Earth is so freakin' massive that even 200nm is pretty average in the grand scheme of things.

Just thought I'd share with everyone......

Oh and Sarzo, I couldn't care one way or another if people tried to dogpile me (makes for better publicity when I win ;) ). Unlike a lot of the new nations that are dogpiled, I can defend myself quite well. If you want to start an AMF/Sarzonia war, I'm sure something could be arranged.

Well... I think what Sarzonia means is that even if they dog-pile you and you don't mind it, it still does tend to cheapen the thread a little. Everything tends to get confusing and hard to follow and it becomes a war of numbers and not wits with the occasional poor RPer slipping in and ruining their overall side as things get ignored becuase one person can't be reasonable...

The problem is that everyone wants a peice and everyone wants the glory and recognition for their strong military. So it's kinda inevitable... eitherway, it's your RP, so do it as you liek, I just like the sound of my voice as I read this.

<.<
>.>

<bit about illegitimate islands removing justification for protecting ally>
THis would destroy the entire thread as the whole thing so far is just diplomatic sabre ratting which wouldnt have any real meaning anymore.

And @ AMF: I understand your annoyance at the islands etc and understand that, and I dont think Hogsweat's missiles would actually do that much damage nor do I think Hogsweat is likely to win if you press it... but a few missiles ought to hit. There isnt much point in the RP if every attack against your fleet is shot down to no loss at all on your side.

THis would destroy the entire thread as the whole thing so far is just diplomatic sabre ratting which wouldnt have any real meaning anymore.

Well, as I'm sure you understand that the problem is that this wouldn't have happened if this Island was known to have been there by everyone before hand... if it was kept a secret then it's probably not legitimate. In anycase Hogsweat seems content to take it as it is and they aren't claiming territorial waters around it like it's a colony or something... that was never the point for them and he's just looking for a bit of conflict.

So long as AMF and Hogsweat are happy, they can work it out how they like, but if that wasn't the case I was providing possibilities for how it could still all work. I'm still not sure exactly what they are being counted as now... so far it seems like a "Hogsweat Outpost" that is a surprise to everyone, which kinda backs my view on this one as some people state that they are prepared to defend Hogsweat, but not his Outpost which attacks AMF first...

Basically, I'm just making sure people understand that this situation now depends on the fact AMF is willing to let it slide for a good RP, abusing it would be abusing that trust which personally to me would be seen as bad form and poor OOC sportmanship.

Iuthia, I appreciate all your insight, as usual.



but a few missiles ought to hit. There isnt much point in the RP if every attack against your fleet is shot down to no loss at all on your side.

Hey now, that's kind of a generalized statement there. The attack was swatted down for 2 reasons:

1. Because the ratio of missiles to the number of ships defending was too great in favor of the ships.

2. To possibly still find a way out of a war.

Granted, reason #2 was the primary reason. I figured if nobody died and if there was no destruction that this whole thing might still blow over.

Well... I think what Sarzonia means is that even if they dog-pile you and you don't mind it, it still does tend to cheapen the thread a little.It tends to ruin threads, especially with people going, "Oh yeah? Well I'll call THIS alliance," and "I've got AMF on speed dial!" Especially when people don't. respect. closed RPs. *grumble*

Dogpiles ruin RPs.

Yeah I guess I can just deat the mines... I wasn't even planning on sinking anything... maybe a cruiser, then saying "That was a shame. I wonder what happened? But I bet it could happen again... and maybe to your SD."

Oh and about your ASHUM (underwater CIWS); ineffective. The mines go super-cav within 4km's of their target, after dropping off half their length. 400 to 500 knots is the equivelent of mach 1 underwater, as sound underwater travels slower, and thus inside this air pocket you travel faster than the sound in the water. Plus theres not much of a reaction time. Anyhow, they no longer exist.

Oh and about that Economic Exclusion Zone. Of course we know about those. Alaska's national nautical boundries are still 24nm. No one else can fish within 200km's of its shores though, and it had to apply for this in the United Nations. Canada has claimed this, but so has France. France has islands off the coast of Labrador and PEI, therefore there is a huge huge fight between France and Canada over fishing rights there. And Spain has violated Canada's exclusive Economic zone by fishing. But its not the same. If Canada claimed 250km of water as its territory and not exclusive for its resources, then Greenland and the States would be pretty pissed.. and a lot of europe.

Hey now, that's kind of a generalized statement there. The attack was swatted down for 2 reasons:

1. Because the ratio of missiles to the number of ships defending was too great in favor of the ships.

2. To possibly still find a way out of a war.

Granted, reason #2 was the primary reason. I figured if nobody died and if there was no destruction that this whole thing might still blow over.

I find this perfectly acceptable. Yakhont III's are old pieces, I would have been surprised if a ship was hit.

Yeah I guess I can just deat the mines... I wasn't even planning on sinking anything... maybe a cruiser, then saying "That was a shame. I wonder what happened? But I bet it could happen again... and maybe to your SD."

Oh and about your ASHUM (underwater CIWS); ineffective. The mines go super-cav within 4km's of their target, after dropping off half their length. 400 to 500 knots is the equivelent of mach 1 underwater, as sound underwater travels slower, and thus inside this air pocket you travel faster than the sound in the water. Plus theres not much of a reaction time. Anyhow, they no longer exist.

Well then lets hope GMC doesn't come into this thread then....

Oh and about that Economic Exclusion Zone. Of course we know about those. Alaska's national nautical boundries are still 24nm. No one else can fish within 200km's of its shores though, and it had to apply for this in the United Nations. Canada has claimed this, but so has France. France has islands off the coast of Labrador and PEI, therefore there is a huge huge fight between France and Canada over fishing rights there. And Spain has violated Canada's exclusive Economic zone by fishing. But its not the same. If Canada claimed 250km of water as its territory and not exclusive for its resources, then Greenland and the States would be pretty pissed.. and a lot of europe.

In which case my government would BS its way to justification. C'mon now, you should know how AMF operates.

But anyways, I really don't think another nation can tell another nation what is acceptable in terms of territory. And since NS lacks a central governing body, there really isn't anything anyone can do about it.

Anyhow, Im pulling back two of my fleets that are in route, so that will drop the numbers by 2,000 vessels. So now only my 2nd Fleet is there. And even then its prolly gonna move on.

If Canada claimed 250km of water as its territory and not exclusive for its resources, then Greenland and the States would be pretty pissed.. and a lot of europe.

It's worth pointing out that while this would be the case, these nations have a reason to get involved because their trade/territory would be affected by the expansion... however in this case and the majority of cases it's been shown that it does not affect trade routes or another nations territorial waters.

Some people may cling to the idea of international law for nationstates because of the examples they see in the real world... but the fact is that politics are different in NS, many nations in NS already claim a large amount of water around their nation, hell, Haven even has it writen within some of their treaties that they can claim up to 200km...

And if we get into the realism of how much water AMF could take around his nation before he hits something important is pretty relative... Hogsweats region, Haven, is so large that it's very easy for most nations to claim 200km (though most don't as far as I know) and still have tons of room in the straits for Haven Regional Waters.

So this is more a matter of supporting Hogsweat or having objections over how much water you think everyone is entitled to.

The problem is that everyone wants a peice and everyone wants the glory and recognition for their strong military.

*Locks and loads Enfield*

Sorry about that, I just had to do it! ;)

I’d gladly be on AMF’s side but that will result in my Havenic allies turning on me, I’m not whose side to be on but I desperately want to be in this RP. Doesn’t AMF have some people willing to RP on his side, I know he has friends but I’d rather it not be a throwback to the old days of AMF and the tagalongs of NATO (not all of them).

*Locks and loads Enfield*

Sorry about that, I just had to do it! ;)

I’d gladly be on AMF’s side but that will result in my Havenic allies turning on me, I’m not whose side to be on but I desperately want to be in this RP. Doesn’t AMF have some people willing to RP on his side, I know he has friends but I’d rather it not be a throwback to the old days of AMF and the tagalongs of NATO (not all of them).

Most of NATO is neutral due to ties on both sides of the conflict. Pantera is the only ally I have active at the moment, and I sort of like keeping it simple. If I wanted to I could summon the mighty Gholgoth juggernaut to come in and cause some real havok, but in my years on NS I've grown weary of large scale conflicts.

(But that's not to say that Gholgoth isn't watching......)

OOC: Well, seeing the comments made by both sides I think it is wise to retract my former comment. Both sides are willing to fight for goals not set, just for fun. I like that. Me and Krieg talked about this, and a probably good scenario is developing. Holy Panooly and Kriegorgrad aren't what you call "military powers", but like Austria-Hungary being the less powerful "brother" of the German Kaiserreich, it may be fun to ally myself with AMF just to throw in some extra nations - who lack influence.

I'm not playing to display my strength, I'm here for fun and to pull off a few neat tricks with Krieg.

To clear something up, AMF was right, we were ready to fire the guns but the order was held because we wanted the civvies to get clear.
Jolt ate a post so i'll post tommorow, as it is 1:07 PM.

As for the island thing, Hog, you could've just claimed a fleet outside of AMF if you wanted to participate.

Rose, we've been over this before, can you just sthu already, dropping a FLEET in is even more wanky.

Btw, AMF, can we have a rough number of your fleet and how many vessels of what type there are? it's easier to figure out my strategy for my plan if i know how many escorts, capital ships etc i'll be facing.

And should we make an actual thread for it or continue on that one :x

OOC: I know, I know, third post, sorry. Me and Krieg talked it over, and heres what I'd like to do...

Hire out mercenaries from the RIS, an evil company I sometimes use in RP that isnt connected to my government. Both sides can use them, no one can aomplain, and I get to RP on both sides.

Would that be allright?

Rose, we've been over this before, can you just sthu already, dropping a FLEET in is even more wanky.

Can you conduct yourself in a more civil manner? It was merely a suggestion. I said this to you in IRC after I posted it.

Can you conduct yourself in a more civil manner? It was merely a suggestion. I said this to you in IRC after I posted it.

*Thwaps Rose* Civility and Hog? Who'd've guessed. ;)

As a nation allied with both AMF and the OMP nations and a member of both NATO and the OMP, I've come up with a way to end the escalting military situation without anyone losing face. If you're interested IM me.

AIM: TWoodrowWilson
MSN: aardman1@gmail.com

I'm willing to go along with peace if AMF doesn't want this RP.

As a nation allied with both AMF and the OMP nations and a member of both NATO and the OMP, I've come up with a way to end the escalting military situation without anyone losing face. If you're interested IM me.

AIM: TWoodrowWilson
MSN: aardman1@gmail.com
Can you TG it'me? Thanks.

I'm willing to go along with peace if AMF doesn't want this RP.

If you want to have a war RP I'm down, but I would like to wrap it up as soon as possible, as I have another RP I want to take care of (what this RP was originally intented for), and another coming up in about a month.

The RP that I have coming up is going to be one of the biggest of my RP career, so this absolutely must be done by then.

I also want to try and keep this on as small of a scale as we can.

(...)I've heard you and Pantera are gonna invade Praetor. Is that true? Last time I heard Praetor he didn't really RP much on NationStates. Lack of time the usual excuses

I've heard you and Pantera are gonna invade Praetor. Is that true? Last time I heard Praetor he didn't really RP much on NationStates. Lack of time the usual excuses

Not true.

So, i'll assume you don't want to continue this RP?

<snip>

Oh and about your ASHUM (underwater CIWS); ineffective. The mines go super-cav within 4km's of their target, after dropping off half their length. 400 to 500 knots is the equivelent of mach 1 underwater, as sound underwater travels slower, and thus inside this air pocket you travel faster than the sound in the water. Plus theres not much of a reaction time. Anyhow, they no longer exist.<snip>

Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but sound actually travels about 5 times faster in water than it does in air :-\ the denser the material, the faster sound waves travel, because they move as molecules crash into each other. 400 to 500 knots is still damn fast though :D

So, i'll assume you don't want to continue this RP?

I do, but under the above conditions.

To clear something up, AMF was right, we were ready to fire the guns but the order was held because we wanted the civvies to get clear.
Jolt ate a post so i'll post tommorow, as it is 1:07 PM.
Yes, but you were only holding your fire for 60 seconds... I am aware that you never posted firing, but you had the right to say "hey, wait a second, I said I was going to fire in 60 seconds, so I fire before you moved your fleet."

However, if both of you are in agreement... kinda silly for me to be in the argument, huh? I'm just weird like that... I'll go purple in the face arguing for a theoretical right that's already been abandoned.

Also, in response to AMF's latest post on the IC thread... he started the countdown much higher, at 450 or something, and it was a very small island with a boat there, ready to go, and not many civvies...

Pacific Northwesteria,

I don't think Hogsweat minds because of the liberties I have shown him in this RP. It's all about give and take.

If he wants me to retcon the post I will, but there is no need for you to get anal about it.

Pacific Northwesteria,

I don't think Hogsweat minds because of the liberties I have shown him in this RP. It's all about give and take.

If he wants me to retcon the post I will, but there is no need for you to get anal about it.

Hey, AMF, sorry you feel that way about what I was doing... as I said before, I was getting out of the issue, because both of you agreed and that's all that matters when it's an RP. I just felt compelled to respond when you said stuff like "he never fired" or "you can't evac in X seconds" because that wasn't what was going on.

We have already established that he doesn't want you to retcon anything, especially considering that he just happened to have a convenient island. Should make for a good RP however (and quick, so you can go steamroll whoever it was you were planning on attacking) which is, again, all that matters.

Bump?

Yeah, I was wondering why both threads suddenly died... didn't want to bump it meself, cuz I'm not directly involved, and if the people involved wanted it to die...

My proverbial house has finally been put in order(excepting a few positions in the government that will be filled in soon enough), so I'm looking to this RP for my next plot point.

Rather than just barge in like I could do, I think I choose to ask about a chance of getting involved in this whole thing.

And bump this thing back up.