NationStates Jolt Archive


OOC: Why most nations can not afford Pandora's Box

Whittier--
30-07-2005, 20:19
This information is secret IC so your nations cannot and will not know the make up of the Pandora's Box sattelite system.
I've seen too many people grabbing my stuff. PB being one thing that has been appropriated by a certain person in past posts.

As you will see, the costs of Pandora's Box runs into the high trillions.

Pandora's Box is composed of a constellation of Sattelites that surrounds the earth.

Ground Operation Station:
Number: 100
Capricorn
Type of Service............... 500000KF9W (multilink, multivoice, and data)
Frequency Range:
Transmit............... 7.9 to 8.4 GHz
Receive............... 7.25 to 7.75 GHz
Planning Range............... 16,093 km (10,000 mi)
Power Input............... 115/230 V AC, 50 to 60 Hz
Power Source............... Any appropriate AC power source
Power Output............... Up to 20 kW
Antenna............... System Paraboloid surface, 18.29 m (60 ft) in diameter, weight 172.3 MT (190 t)
Cost: 125 billion each

50 FSC-78's
a fixed SHF SATCOM heavy SGT operating in the X-band frequency range
11.6 m (38 ft) diameter, DE-222/G, parabolic dish
The terminal is composed of six subsystems, including antenna tracking, transmitter, receiver, frequency reference, control, and monitoring. The antenna is a 60- foot diameter, high-efficiency, parabolic reflector providing an antenna gain-to-noise temperature ratio (G/ T) of 39 dB/ K. The reflector is mounted on an elevation-over-azimuth-configured pedestal. Cryogenically cooled, parametric amplifiers provide 30 dB of gain and an antenna G/ T ratio of 39 dB/ K. The antenna terminal equipment has a tracking converter, 15 down-converters, and 9 up-converters. Only 10 of the down-converters are normally active at one time; the remaining 5 are in hot standby. The output signals from the up-converters are fed to a 5-kW TWTA, providing a radiated antenna signal of 500-MHz bandwidth at an EIRP of 124 dB referenced to one watt (dBW). A redundant 5 kW power amplifier can be operated in parallel with the primary power amplifier to provide an output equivalent to 10 kW at an EIRP of 127 dBW. The down-converters translate the receive signal of 7.25 to 7.75 GHz to 70-MHz IF (40-MHz bandwidth) or a 700-MHz IF (125-MHz bandwidth). The up-converters translate the 70 or 700-MHz IF input signal, with bandwidths of 40 or 125 MHz, to the transmit frequency of 7.9 to 8.4 GHz. The Army Heavy Terminal/ Medium Terminal (HT/ MT) modernization of the AN/ FSC-78/ 79 and AN/ GSC-39 Earth terminal will increase the total number of the uplink and downlink converters.
Cost: 125 billion each

500 STAR-T Mobile Ground Stations
SHF Tri-Band Advanced Range Extension Tactical Terminal
HMMWV mounted multichannel satellite terminal. It has a tri-band capability in the SHF range. The STAR-T terminal will operate over commercial and military SHF systems and will interface with both commercial and military switching systems. It will provide the required range extension for TRI-TAC systems at EAC and non-terrestrial communications connectivity between EAC and ECB.
operate over military and commercial SHF satellites and will provide range extension for both commercial and military switching systems. The terminal will provide data, imagery, and voice communications at various data rates up to total aggregate data rate of 8.192 Mb/s
Frequency Range:

3.9 GHz-6.2 GHz (C Band)
6.2 GHz-10.9 GHz (X Band)
15.25 GHz-17.25 GHz (Ku BAND)

Characteristics:

Four T-1 (1.54 Mb/s) circuits or four E-1 (2.048 Mb/s)
Circuits for a total aggregate of 8.192 M/bs
STAR-T will provide communications connectivity for split based operations between the theater and the sustaining base. DSCS SHF satellites will be used as much as possible to provide anti-jam protected links for all users. If current and future DSCS satellites cannot provide the total required throughput, then selected links will use commercial satellites to satisfy the requirement.
Cost 175 BILLIOn each


Tracking Satellites
20 ATDRS
Advanced Tracking and Data Relay Satellite
provide communications coverage to satellites and manned vehicles in low Earth orbit.
Ku-Band communications services as the original TDRS vehicles, and will also add Ka-band links
Spacecraft
Based on Hughes HS-601 series bus, with modifications to meet NASA requirements. Upgraded attitude control system, telemetry and command system based on other government satellite systems. Deployable solar arrays provide 2040 W EOL.
Payload
Two Single Access (SA) antennas - each antenna is a lightweight 4.5 m steerable dish incorporating new springback reflector technology. Each dish can have simultaneous S/Ku- or S/Ka-band communications with a single user spacecraft. Maximum receive data rates through these antennas are 300 Mbps for Ku and Ka bands and 6 Mbps for S-band. Transmit data rates are 25 Mbps for Ku/Ka and 300 kbps for S-band. One Multiple Access (MA) S-band receive array - an electronically steerable phased array antenna consisting of patch antennas. The MA array can receive data from up to 5 user satellites simultaneously, with each link supporting up to 3 Mbps. One S-band transmit array - an electronically steerable phased array antenna consisting of patch antennas. This array can transmit data to a single user satellite at a rate of 300 kbps. One Space to Ground Link antenna (SGL) - a parabolic antenna operating at Ku-band that provides the communications link between the satellite and the ground. All customer data is sent through this dish, as are all regular TDRS command and telemetry signals. The antenna is gimballed on two axes.
Size 21 m x 14 m (deployed)
Must be launched on an atlas rocket
Orbit Geosynchronous
Design Life 15 years
Cost: $486.1M each

Intelligence Sattelites
10 Sirius sats
photographic intelligence satellite
perational life of about three years, would be in orbit at all times
sun-synchronous orbits, which repeat their ground tracks at four day intervals, and are synchronized to provide two day overlaps in coverage.
$450 billion

5 E-300 Enhanced Collection System
very large, Lightweight optics
large version of Sirius
$300 billion

Geo sattelites
LandSat 45
10 sats
Structure of aluminum with graphite struts. Hydrazine propulsion system. Single solar array with 1-axis articulation produces 1430 W (BOL), Two NiCd batteries provide 100 AHr total. Retractable boom (4 m long) with 2 powered joints supports the articulated HGA which downlinks data via TDRSS. Communications system uses S, X, L, and Ku-Bands. 3-axis stabilized, zero momentum with control to 0.01 deg using reaction wheels.
Payload
Carried Multi-Spectral Scanner (MSS) and Thematic Mapper ™ imaging sensors. TM provides 7 bands of coverage and the MSS has 4 bands. The MSS covers 0.5 to 12.6 µ m and provides 80 m resolution with a 185 km swath width. TM covers 0.45 to 12.5 µ m with resolution of 30 meters in the VIS/IR bands and 120 m in the thermal/IR bands.
size 4.3 m high, 2.2 wide (with HGA and array deployed)
Orbit 705 km circular, polar, sun-synchronous, repeating every 16 days (9:45 am crossing time)
Design Life 5 years
$5 billion each

Remote Sensors:

12 FY-1's
137 MHz band
powered by two solar arrays (about 3.5 m long each) with a combined rating of more than 800 W. Nickel-cadmium batteries were used for electrical power storage. Attitude control is maintained by a combination of nitrogen cold gas thrusters and reaction wheels, although both spacecraft suffered serious malfunctions in this system
Very High Resolution Scanning Radiometers (VHRSR) with a combined mass of 95 kg. These optical-mechanical scanners operates at 360 rpm with a 20-cm diameter primary mirror. The five spectral bands used are 0.58-0.68 µm, 0.725-1.1 µm, 0.48-0.53 µm, 0.53-0.58 µm, and 10.5-12.5 µm. The system swath is 2,860 km with a 1.08-km resolution in the High Resolution Picture Transmission (HRPT) mode and 4-km resolution in the Automatic Picture Transmission (APT) mode.
$20 billion each

10 Haiyang-1's
340kg and have two solar panels
equiped with a 10-band IR ocean color scanner and a 4-band CCD camera.
$20 billion each

10 Zi Yuan 2's
4-channel CCD sensors capable of 400-km swath widths and 100-m ground resolution.
cooled, multi-channel infrared camera system with a mass of 40-50 kg
$20 billion each


Missile Launch Detectors:

10 DSPs
180M per spacecraft.
Spacecraft
Spacecraft spin slowly (6 rpm) about the nadir axis to permit scanning of the Earth by the detector system. Zero momentum stabilized using a reaction wheel to counter the spacecraft spin. Four solar panels deploy to generate roughly 1300 W. Radiation hardened.

Payload
Payload classified, but thought to include telescope with 6000 element IR array, nuclear explosion detectors, particle detection monitors.
Size 33 ft long, 14 ft diameter
Orbit Geosynchronous
Design Life 7 to 9 years
early warning system for the detection of long range ballistic missile launches and nuclear detonations

SDI Sats:

20 Warhawks
identify and track ballistic missiles during flight
In addition, it will perform scientific investigations of the composition and dynamics of the Earth's atmosphere by observing ozone, chloroflourocarbons, carbon dioxide and methane.
Spacecraft
3-axis stabilized to 0.01 deg using reaction wheels with knowledge to 9 µ rad (post-processed). 108 Gbits data storage. Steerable X-band antennas with 2 kbps uplink and downlink up to 25 Mbps. Dual solar arrays (single-axis articulation) provide 1200 W BOL. NiH2 batteries.

Payload
The instruments consist of 11 optical sensors making observations at a wide range of infrared, visible and ultraviolet wavelengths from 110 nm to 28 µ m. Primary instruments: SPIRIT III (Space Infrared Imaging Telescope), UVISI (Ultraviolet and Visible Imagers and Spectrographic Imagers), SBV (Space-Based Visible instrument), OSDP (On-board Signal and Data Processor), and reference objects (2 cm spheres to be deployed from MSX).
Size 1.5 x 1.5 x 5.1 meters
Orbit 900 km, high inclination, circular, near-sun-synchronous
Design Life 4 years (with 18-20 months of coolant for IR sensors), 5 year goal
$320 million each


5 Vigilence sats
24-inch mirror deflects ground based lasers back to target points on earth.
Payload
The precision relay mirror was 24 in. (61 cm) and has a pointing accuracy of 0.2 arcsec. (at least one foruth of a city block)

Orbit 457x478 km, include.=43.1 deg
Design Life 6 months
120 million


10 Pandora's Box Missile Sats

Space based nuclear missile silo.
Holds up to 50 nuclear missiles.
contains infrared and optical scanners to monitor all surrounding space
Laser Cannon W34 (anti sat/anti missile laser). This was a recent upgrade from the Q22 anti missile laser sytem and the T 2 anti sat laser system.
The W34 auto detects threats to the Pandora's Box missile silo and responds with destructive force destroying the source of the threat. Pandora's Box sats have emp shielding added to them before they are launched to protect against electromagnetic radiation.
$500 billion each

Pandora's Box Missile Silo is copyrighted January 2003 by Whittier and its subsequent incarnations: Whittier- and Whittier--.



The Pandora's Box system is copyrighted January 2003 by Whittier and its subsequent incarnations: Whittier- and Whittier--.

Though all missiles launched against Pandora's Box are destroyed less than a minute after impact, the anti sat system is imperfect and PB and may be vulnerable to blindside laser attack (can't be made invulnerable without becoming future tech, actually no sat is immune to blindside laser attacks from space, or close range missile attacks.) Well CRMA's depend on how close you are when you launch them.



There is no way any other nation out there could hope to field such a system. The only reason Whittier has it, it because Whittier-- inherited it from the original Whittier. The total system cost is over $100 trillion not including fuel costs, and launch costs, and the cost of launching and maintenance missions.
Pandora's Box was built up over time, not built in a day. Pandora's Box was built up in 2003, before any of the 2004 nations even existed and construction was started before a great many 2003 nations. PB's first component was first deployed in Jan of 03. Pandora's Box is patented technology so that no one can build it without violating the copyright. Unless I grant permission of course.

There are no space stations in the Pandora's Box constellation. Pandora's Box is no match for future tech devices, or even space fighters for that matter (not designed for it.)

But as I have noted Pandora's Box is copyrighted so please do not copy it. If you want your own system, I can help you if you ask. Not that I have to worry about the older nations but some of the new ones on the other hand.
Red Tide2
30-07-2005, 20:23
OOC:There are nations plenty larger then you(your original incantation I mean) who probably can afford it... hell anyone above 1 billion people with a frightening economy could build that!
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 20:26
only if they have 500 trillion dollar economies and spend all their money on military. Population wise, they would have to have at least 3.5 to 4 billion.
Red Tide2
30-07-2005, 20:27
OOC:Okay... when was your original incantation created? Be truthful now...
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 20:31
Dec 28 02.

Also, should be noted, that even Whittier's was not complete but still being added too. This thread only shows what the completed system would look like.

The PB that the original whitt had and the subsequent incarnations inherited had the missile silos and a couple of the missile trackers and surveillance sats.

Also the W34 system on the missile silo was not yet installed when Whittier the original was deated.

So even Whittier in it current incarnation has only a partial PB. Though I intended to finish once I've reformed my conventional forces. Just haven't gotten around to it.

Course, even then, I had to launch the stuff gradually over a couple of rl months.
Theao
30-07-2005, 20:32
ooc: Whitter was created in Dec 02
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6571866&postcount=1
Red Tide2
30-07-2005, 20:35
December 28th... 2002, so you deployed the first sattelite in Janurary 2003? Before you even had a hundred million people? Wow... that means I could start on it and get half of it done faster then you got PART of it done... let me check my budget...
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 20:36
ooc: Whitter was created in Dec 02
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6571866&postcount=1
with a pop of 3.293 billion at the time of deletion. PB was almost finished when it got deated too.
The Island of Rose
30-07-2005, 20:41
Whitter, what is your MSN? We must discuss... things.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 20:42
December 28th... 2002, so you deployed the first sattelite in Janurary 2003? Before you even had a hundred million people? Wow... that means I could start on it and get half of it done faster then you got PART of it done... let me check my budget...
your budget shows only $18,971,471,151,360.01 43% for defense.
You don't have 500 trillion to spend to put it all up in one shot, let alone half of it.
In fact, according to NSeconomy your entire budget is barely: $55,149,625,440,000.02

Source: http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=Red+Tide2
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 20:44
Whitter, what is your MSN? We must discuss... things.
you have a tg.
The Island of Rose
30-07-2005, 20:47
Now if you could get on MSN, that would be nice.
Red Tide2
30-07-2005, 20:49
OOC:I did not say all in one shot.
Praetonia
30-07-2005, 21:34
Since Whittier was founded on December 28th 2002, and the Pandora's Box system completed around January, you would only have had a population of approximately 100m at the time, correct? Furthermore, for the record neither your current nation nor any incarnation of Whittier has ever had a $500tn economy. I also see precious little here that would make the Pandora's Box an expensive or even a particularly good system of missile defence.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 21:40
Since Whittier was founded on December 28th 2002, and the Pandora's Box system completed around January, you would only have had a population of approximately 100m at the time, correct? Furthermore, for the record neither your current nation nor any incarnation of Whittier has ever had a $500tn economy. I also see precious little here that would make the Pandora's Box an expensive or even a particularly good system of missile defence.
PB was not completed in Jan. But if you want more info get on MSN.
Praetonia
30-07-2005, 21:42
PB was not completed in Jan. But if you want more info get on MSN.
k. What is your address?
Axis Nova
30-07-2005, 22:09
Not bad, Whittier, but I daresay my SDI system still outdoes it :p
Skibereen
30-07-2005, 22:18
Say Whittier could I bite the general layout of PB for offsite use only--I will give you credit of course.
I just dont have the time to layout a missile defense system, I already laid out my INtel, and Com sat constellations but no dedicated system for missiles.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 22:23
hello Axis and Skibereen
get on MSN messenger and join the discussion.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 22:25
Say Whittier could I bite the general layout of PB for offsite use only--I will give you credit of course.
I just dont have the time to layout a missile defense system, I already laid out my INtel, and Com sat constellations but no dedicated system for missiles.
let me think about that. Are you just asking for the missile silos?
Skibereen
30-07-2005, 22:31
let me think about that. Are you just asking for the missile silos?
No actually, I have missiles--I meant the constellation array--and basic ground system design--I would tweak the electronics but to anyone really looking the layout would surely be yours-so like I said I would give credit where credit was due--but MY nation on NS has no use of an Anti-Missile capacity as far as monitoring and surveillence goes it isnt up to that level I have too much civil unrest.
But in RPs on other sites I have more organized nations, I wouldnt use the design here at all.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 22:33
No actually, I have missiles--I meant the constellation array--and basic ground system design--I would tweak the electronics but to anyone really looking the layout would surely be yours-so like I said I would give credit where credit was due--but MY nation on NS has no use of an Anti-Missile capacity as far as monitoring and surveillence goes it isnt up to that level I have too much civil unrest.
But in RPs on other sites I have more organized nations, I wouldnt use the design here at all.
ah ok. sure.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 22:33
Not bad, Whittier, but I daresay my SDI system still outdoes it :p
aren't you future tech?
Skibereen
30-07-2005, 22:39
thanks, oh and when did you original get deated? I am gone for awhile and so much changes.
Whittier--
30-07-2005, 23:19
thanks, oh and when did you original get deated? I am gone for awhile and so much changes.
around between aug and oct 04.
Axis Nova
30-07-2005, 23:46
aren't you future tech?

No, postmodern-- though the major components of my SDI system can easily be done by any MT nation.

Bomb-pumped X-ray lasers are not particularly complex pieces of equipment =p
Whittier--
31-07-2005, 01:03
edited.