NationStates Jolt Archive

L15 Centurion Heavy Riot Control Vehicle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Praetonia/CenturionHeavyRiotControlVehicle.png

Introduction and History

Following a string of high-intensity and potentially dangerous riots in the Crown Colony Segmentum Praetonialis, Imperial Praetonian Ordnance was awarded a contract to design and produce a completely non-lethal riot-control vehicle sufficiently equipped to resist small arms fire, destroy barricades and move aside burnt out cars, disperse large numbers of rioters intermingled with protestors, potentially including children, without causing major injury, and intimidate even the most hardcore protestors.

Out of this specification the L15 Centurion was born. Based on the IPO-145 Phalanx chassis, the Centurion shares many common components with the decidedly more lethal vehicle, although it features an entirely new turret. The decision was made early on to retain the ‘tank look’, and so the Centurion was equipped with an MBT-esque turret housing most of its weaponry and ships with military camouflage. Despite its intimidating appearance and connotations with the Tianamen Square massacre, the Centurion is designed with the safety of both police and public in mind, and will hopefully deter future riots from occurring at all.

Armament - Offensive

The Centurion is armed with a variety of non-lethal weaponry designed to dislodge rioters from barricades and disperse large groups of people from a distance where there is only minimal risk to the police operators.

High Pressure Water Cannon

The Centurion’s primary armament is the IPO L245 High Pressure Water Cannon. Capable of firing a steady stream of water up to 75m and with a variable pressure of up to 200psi, the water cannon is capable of quickly dispersing large numbers of people without risking direct contact with the vehicle. The cannon is powered by a dedicated 75hp converted fire pump run from the vehicle’s engine.

Although the water cannon is a non-lethal weapon, it has been known, in a small number of instances, to cause serious internal injury which is difficult for the affected individuals to self-diagnose and which can lead to fatalities. For that reason, an inert red dye is stored in a separate container and can be mixed with the water to ‘paint’ the affected individuals so that they can be isolated by medical personnel. It could theoretically be used to isolate rioters some time after the event, although being in the area sprayed with water is hardly conclusive proof of being involved in the riot and its use as evidence against an individual is illegal in Praetonia.

Most of the unused space in the very large Phalanx chassis is utilised storing water. Up to 10,000 litres of water can be stored, weighing 10 tonnes and allowing the vehicle to fire a 40 minute continuous burst. This massive increase in ammunition and staying power over conventional truck-based water cannon allows the Centurion to form a true stand-alone system which is not limited to supporting other riot control assets such as riot police and APCs.

40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher

The Centurion’s second most powerful weapon is mounted co-axially to the water cannon. It is capable of firing a variety of grenades out to a range of 300m, including tear gas, concussion grenades and smoke grenades. The grenade belts generally issued to Centurion units generally consist of ten concussion grenades and ten tear gas grenades arranged alternately, with 5 smoke grenades placed throughout the chain. This combination can cause complete disorientation and incapacitation within seconds, and is employed best in support of conventional riot control forces who can then move forwards and secure individuals before they regain their bearings.

Faced with a serious threat to a government building such as Parliament from a dedicated group of individuals, the grenade launcher and water cannon acting together can prove a decisive combination. It should also be noted that the 40mm grenade launcher is a military grade weapon firing non-lethal rounds. It can also fire HE-FRAG rounds and anti-tank grenades, but this is not the intention.

Pellet Machineguns (PMGs)

The vehicle mounts two ‘Pellet Machineguns’, one co-axially to the water cannon, and the other in the small commander’s turret mounted on the turret roof. Both of these weapons fire 6.5mm hollow polycarbonate plastic bullets fired by means of a caseless ammunition system. They are capable of firing 800 rounds per minute.

These weapons are highly effective and cause little lasting damage to most areas of the body, but they can cause severe damage to the eyes should they be hit. For this reason, the weapons are generally used only when potentially dangerous or armed rioters are attempting to storm police lines, or overrun government buildings. It should also be noted that the PMGs are very close to military grade weapons. With relatively little effort they can be converted to fire live rounds, but this is not the intention.

Bulldozer Blade

The Bulldozer Blade attached to the front of the vehicle is made of a very strong polycarbonate material and designed to knock over barricades and push obstacles out of the way. It can also be used to allow the vehicle to charge directly at rioters without risking them falling under the tracks. The scoop is designed to be able to pick up people rather than drag them along the ground, and it is equipped with four handles.

Armament - Defensive

In addition to the offensive armament of the vehicle, it is also equipped with a number of systems which defend it and its contents from the individuals it is attempting to disperse.

Area Denial Grenade Launching System

Positioned on the turret roof behind the commander’s cupola turret is bank of 12 grenade launchers which are designed to launch their grenades a short distance into the air above the tank and then fall back down to the sides and explode, deploying a large number of non-lethal plastic pellets into the surrounding environment. This is designed primarily for use in the event that rioters have surrounded and are attempting to enter the vehicle.

Each grenade launcher is able to move 20 degrees in any direction to allow the system to retain functionality even when the vehicle is moving. It is also possible for the vehicle to deploy its grenades in a pre-set pattern around the vehicle, for example all 12 grenades in a small arc in front of the vehicle for example to protect a specific group of people or a specific building. The projectiles are not able to cause harm to most parts of the body generally including the eyes, but it is generally best not to deploy this system unless absolutely necessary.

Pellet Claymore Mines (PCMs)

The tank is equipped with a pseudo-ERA system of claymore mines which launch similar plastic projectiles, in addition to smoke and a concussion grenade explosion. The mines can be detonated individually from within the tank by the commander, or they can be set to detonate on contact. These mines are designed to dislodge rioters from the sides of the vehicles and disorientate them for long enough to for the vehicle to change position.

Crew Individual Weapons

Each crewman is equipped with an L65C Squad Individual Weapon Carbine with a 12” sword bayonet. These are the only overtly offensive weapons the Centurion is equipped with, the reasoning being that if the crew are forced to use them then the rioters outside have breached the considerable systems designed to keep them out, or have somehow forced the crew to leave the vehicle. These weapons are capable of firing 6.5mm caseless ammunition at a rate of 600 rounds per minute and are stored with 120 round drum magazines and 30 round clips.

Protection - Armour

The Centurion is equipped with fairly light armour which is nonetheless effective for what it is expected to do. The armour scheme is capable of proofing the vehicle against small arms fire up to 15.5mm, shell splinters, grenades and anti-personnel mines. The vehicle is highly resistant to 20mm rounds and RPGs. The vehicle uses a layer armour scheme as follows:

Outermost layer – Reinforced wire mesh. Prematurely detonates incoming RPG rounds and keeps rioters detached from the body of the vehicle.

2nd Layer – Pellet Claymore Mines (PCMs). Description above.

3rd Layer – Ballistic ceramics. This layer deflects most small arms fire, grenade blasts and shell splinters.

4th Layer – Reinforced steel. This layer provides structural strength and is a good all-round protective material. It also provides a second small-arms resistant layer in case the ballistic ceramic layer is penetrated. Both layers together provide considerable protection from all types of rounds.

5th Layer – Rubber. An insulating layer that also protects the crew against spalling.

The approximate RHA armour values are as follows:

Front: 120mm (KE) / 200mm (HEAT)
Side: 80mm (KE) / 120mm (HEAT)
Rear: 80mm (KE) / 120mm (HEAT)

The armour is of the modular variety, with each individual section being easily replaceable in the event that only a partial penetration is achieved. The vehicle is also fully sealed against chemical or biological attacks to prevent rioters “smoking out” the crew using Molotov cocktails or other such weapons. In addition to exterior armour, the interior of the vehicle is partitioned so as to seperate the engine and fuel from the crew compartment. The vehicle is equipped with backup batteries which enable it to remove itself from a danger zone should its engine encounter a malfunction or be disabled.

Sensors

The Centurion Is equipped with a fairly rudimentary set of sensors which, despite their basic design, are suitable for the tasks the vehicle is designed to perform. The first sensor the vehicle is equipped with is a laser rangefinder, which allows the gunner to target specific areas of a crowd precisely with any of the vehicle’s weapons. The commander’s and gunner’s video displays are provided with an overlay showing the range.

As in the Phalanx upon which it is based, the vehicle is equipped with a number of digital cameras positioned inside nicks in the hull with closeable armoured lense-covers and also one on a periscope style telescopic mount. These provide the driver, gunner and commander with a real time picture of their environment and also allow the operators of the vehicle to see over barricades and into buildings.

Every weapon the Centurion is equipped with comes with optical sights to enable them to be fired even without the computer aiming mechanisms and the laser rangefinder. The vehicle is designed to be able to retain near full functionality even if most of its electronic systems are disable.

Mobility

The Centurion is powered by a 650hp diesel-electric engine which also powers the batteries and the water cannon pump. The engine allows the vehicle to reach speeds of 50mph on road and 35mph off road. The track system allows the vehicle to overcome most obstacles it is likely to encounter in an urban environment which cannot be pushed aside by the dozer blade. The vehicle is also theoretically capable of snorkelling to a depth of 5m at a speed of 10mph.

General Specifications:

Length: 9m (hull); 9.4m (inc. gun)
Width: 3.9m
Height: 2.60m (turret roof); 3m (cupola turret roof)
Ground Clearance: 0.5m
Combat Weight: 34,000kg
Crew: 3 (Commander / Gunner; Gunner; Driver)
Main Armament: 1x L245 200psi Water Cannon
Ammunition Stowage: 10,000 litres / 40 minutes continuous firing
Secondary Armament: 1x 40mm automatic grenade launcher (co-axial); 1x 6.5mm pellet machinegun (co-axial); 1x 6.5mm pellet machinegun (cupola turret); 150 pellet claymore mines; 12 round area denial grenade launching system (ADGLS)
Ammunition Stowage: 200x 40mm grenades; 2,000x 6.5mm rounds; 1,000x live 6.5mm rounds; 5 ADGLS reloads
Engine: 1x IPO 'Mercury' 650bhp diesel-electric hybrid
Theoretical Maximum Speed: 50mph (road); 40mph (cross-country); 10mph (snorkling)
Operational Range: 750 miles
Fording Depth: 2.5m (normal); 6m (snorkle)

Production Cost: $2,000,000
Export Cost: $3,000,000

[OOC: Comments? Criticism? Sales? All constructive criticism welcome!]

OOC: That is an absolutely beautiful picture. I never make them that big, or detailed. I feel so inadequate.

EDIT: Ooh. five hundredth post. I only just realised.

OOC: That is an absolutely beautiful picture. I never make them that big, or detailed. I feel so inadequate.

EDIT: Ooh. five hundredth post. I only just realised.
[OOC: It is rather bigger than I originally intended. Meh. Anyway Im glad you liked it.]

Looks great. I just think that the armor on it is a bit much, but I guess better safe than sorry.

Looks great. I just think that the armor on it is a bit much, but I guess better safe than sorry.
[OOC: Yes it is a bit just for a riot control vehicle, but I was also planning on using it as an anti-insurgency vehicle that doesnt turn public opinion against me, so it's good to have protection against RPGs etc.]

Republican Army Ordering Department
To: Imperial Praetonian Ordanance, Ordering Department
RE: L15 Centurion Heavy Riot Control Vehicle

Greetings,

The Grand Republic has need for a new riot control vehicle after continuous rioting in Nerotika and renewed terrorist tactics in Hitlerreich, particularly in the South of the country. Thus we have need for ten thousand of your fine vehicles, coming to a grand total of $30 Billion USD, sent to your company's usual account with us.

Many thanks

To: Republican Army Ordering Department
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion Heavy Riot Control Vehicle

We appreciate your difficulties in Nerotika and are ourselves planning to deploy Centurions to that nation as well as our three Crown Colonies and the Praeton counter insurgency division. I am pleased to be able to confirm your order for 10,000 units and am looking forwards to seeing how they perform in active combat.

{::Establishing Uplink::}
{::Encrypting::}
{::Secure Channel Procured::}

Type of Communiqué: Business/Diplomatic
To: Imperial Praetonian Ordnance
From: The Oligarch of Kriegorgrad, Comrade Leader Nikolai Fedorenkov
Subject: L15 Centurion

------------

”While an excellent vehicle of unquestionable quality, Kriegorgrad will have to forego attempting to purchase the L15 riot vehicle as it is a tad…mild for Kriegos tactics when dealing with unruly civilians. However, we shall keep an eye on Praetonian Ordnance when we are in need of high quality weaponry.

Consider this a gesture of praise. “

Yours Sincerely,


The Oligarch of Kriegorgrad, Comrade Leader Nikolai Fedorenkov



{::Closing Uplink::}

the tokera would like to purchase production rights to the L15 centurion heavy riot control vehicle

The Fujishima Corporation's Human Resources Civil Protection Unit would like to purchase 50 of these vehicles for use in the city of Banda Aceh and the surrounding areas.

Total cost comes to USD$150,000,000.

Tenmangu Fujishima
Public Relations Officer
Fujishima Corporation

bump

OOC: Hey Praetonia, ever thought about mounting a weapon in the turret adding more armor and making this a combat engineering AV? You could clear land for airbases and stuff.

To: The Oligarch of Kriegorgrad, Comrade Leader Nikolai Fedorenkov
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion

Your gesture is acknowledged and appreciated. Praetonian riot-control policy calls for as few casualties as possible on both sides. Employing deadly force, although effective in the short term, generally causes larger long term problems or armed resistance in kind from future protestors or prospective riots. Of course, we will employ deadly force in limited situations where innocent lives or the general stability of an area is at risk, but as a matter of course we prefer to use the safest possible solution. Again thankyou for your compliment, and I hope that you will be purchasing future produce of IPO in future.

To: The tokera
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion

Production rights to the L15 Centurion are available ofr purchase and come to a total of $1bn plus a further $50,000 in royalties for each vehicle produced. These production rights cover only the manufacture of spare parts and whole vehicles for use by your government. Any sale of the aforementioned to foreign governments or private individuals requires the prior explicit written concent of the manufacturer, the Foreign and Colonial Office and the Ministry of Defence.

To: Tenmangu Fujishima, Public Relations Officer
Fujishima Corporation
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion

50 units have been cleared for purchase by your nation, and will include a number of spare parts. The vehicles will require approximately 5 months of production time, and will be dispatched to your nation at a rate of 10 vehicles per month. I hope that they will serve your Human Resources Civil Protection Unit well and that you will consider IPO products again in future.

OOC: The Silver Sky - As it happens, Im planning on rolling out an urban combat / engineering vehicle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Praetonia/GrenadierHST.png

And yes, that is a massive conventional rifled gun (about 165mm) designed for firing HE, HE-FRAG, HESH and canister at prepared positions. The secondary turret contains 2x 32mm high-elevation anti-air chaincannons designed to be used for clearing buildings. I might also add the dozer blade from the Centurion picture.

To: Tenmangu Fujishima, Public Relations Officer
Fujishima Corporation
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion

50 units have been cleared for purchase by your nation, and will include a number of spare parts. The vehicles will require approximately 5 months of production time, and will be dispatched to your nation at a rate of 10 vehicles per month. I hope that they will serve your Human Resources Civil Protection Unit well and that you will consider IPO products again in future.[/font]


Thanks, it was nice doing business with you, as well.

Tenmangu Fujishima
Public Relations Officer
Fujishima Corporation

ooc: err not bad I guess...but kind of pointless. It doesn't take much to take an M-113 or BMP-1/2/3 and just replace the weaponry with a water cannon, some pellet guns, and a grenade launcher and replace the ammo storage with a water tank. That doesn't take much at all and it'd probally be a heck of a lot cheaper than making a whole new vehicle. Look at the Russian BTR-T, those things are made out of converted T-72's and I bet it saves them a hell of a lot of money than just making a whole new vehicle.

[OOC: It saves Russia money because Russia designed the BMP, and because they have massive factories geared up to produce it. I am not Russia, I did not design the BMP and I do not have massive factories geared up to build it. I make the IPO-145 Hoplite II - Phalanx, and so I have altered that vehicle. Also this is a larger vehicle, allowing for more water storage.]

[OOC: It saves Russia money because Russia designed the BMP, and because they have massive factories geared up to produce it. I am not Russia, I did not design the BMP and I do not have massive factories geared up to build it. I make the IPO-145 Hoplite II - Phalanx, and so I have altered that vehicle. Also this is a larger vehicle, allowing for more water storage.]
ooc: As I said completely useless... I would never use a large vehicle for riot control. One it's less maneuverable and two it makes a bigger target for any little tardy bastards who got hold of RPG's or anything like that. It might hold a lot of water but that wont stop the crap head on top of a roof from firing an RPG at it. Also most riots happen in the city don't they? Well then why do you need a large vehicle to hold a lot of water when you should have a good water source at your finger tips? Unless your country is poor and has insufficient plumbing, which I kind of doubt that.

ooc: As I said completely useless... I would never use a large vehicle for riot control. One it's less maneuverable
You dont need manoeuverability, you need something that can smash down barricades and get people to disperse (ie run away). A big, indimitating tank-looking object with a big gun does just that.

and two it makes a bigger target for any little tardy bastards who got hold of RPG's or anything like that. It might hold a lot of water but that wont stop the crap head on top of a roof from firing an RPG at it.
I dont know about your nation, but my citizens generally dont have access to RPGs :rolleyes: if I suspect they do, then the wire mesh boxes and the optional applique armour and tank roof will put a stop to them.

Also most riots happen in the city don't they? Well then why do you need a large vehicle to hold a lot of water when you should have a good water source at your finger tips? Unless your country is poor and has insufficient plumbing, which I kind of doubt that.
Because that requires someone to get out of the tank, in the middle of a riot, open a water main, run a pipe from the vehicle, get back in and then rely on the politeness of the rioters not to just pull the pipe straight back out again. It also means that the tank cant move around much, which is generally an advantage.

Anyway, are you just attacking this because I dont like your mass alliance?

Wow...all three of your points are wrong again...


1. Do you really want them to get scared? Then stick a 100-mm ETC gun of that thing instead and fire off once into to the crowd and that will fix your problem. But non-the less your big tank theory doesn't work. If I wanted to scare the shit out of a riot without spending a crap load of money this is what i would do, and it's very simple. First off you want to create a lot of firing, weather it's real or just a recording that sounds real. Then you fire off some flashbang grenades into the crowds while firing pellets at them and firing live ammo(.50 cal's and w/e) above their heads. And even now maybe have some water cannons from M-113/BMP-3 sized vehicles come in and hit them while they're all confused and turned around. Maybe even throw in some sparkler things to cause some large flashes or what so, better yet detonate some explosives. Also surrounding the rioters or making the illusion that they're surround is also another tactic to add in on all this.

2. Always prepare for the worst. Don't add extra armor instead send in security teams to take care of roof tops and then they can fire on riot crowds below with pellet guns or cause confusion with live ammo to continue on what I said in point one.

3. Ummm no...what are you smoking? Its called team coordination(i.e a security guard does it while having cover fire from vehicles and other security guards) and that you don't have your vehicle refueling in the line of fire.

This is not an "attack" this is criticism and no it's not, it's because I'm bored so I go off and comment on tech people have made. It just happened to be your riot vehicle that I saw I felt the need to comment.

1. Do you really want them to get scared? Then stick a 100-mm ETC gun of that thing instead and fire off once into to the crowd and that will fix your problem.
...because that would kill hundreds of civilians perhaps?

But non-the less your big tank theory doesn't work. If I wanted to scare the shit out of a riot without spending a crap load of money this is what i would do, and it's very simple. First off you want to create a lot of firing, weather it's real or just a recording that sounds real. Then you fire off some flashbang grenades into the crowds while firing pellets at them
...which is exactly what this tank does, whilst at the same time protecting the operators of the aforementioned weaponary and allowing it to move around as a single body.

and firing live ammo(.50 cal's and w/e) above their heads.
Again, the intention is not to kill civilians. If I wanted to do that then I would use an actual tank.

And even now maybe have some water cannons from M-113/BMP-3 sized vehicles come in and hit them while they're all confused and turned around. Maybe even throw in some sparkler things to cause some large flashes or what so, better yet detonate some explosives. Also surrounding the rioters or making the illusion that they're surround is also another tactic to add in on all this.
So basically your tactic is to fire pellets, watercannons and grenades at an enemy? Care to read the description of this vehicle again? Because it does exactly the same thing (probably where you got the ideas from).

2. Always prepare for the worst. Don't add extra armor instead send in security teams to take care of roof tops and then they can fire on riot crowds below with pellet guns or cause confusion with live ammo to continue on what I said in point one.
The use of this vehicle doesnt automatically preclude that no other action can / will be taken at the same time. Concerning your idea - again, the intention is not to fire live ammunition and kill people and again there is no real risk of Praetonian rioters having access to RPGs.

3. Ummm no...what are you smoking? Its called team coordination(i.e a security guard does it while having cover fire from vehicles and other security guards) and that you don't have your vehicle refueling in the line of fire.
You could do that, but it would certainly be safer and easier to use a tank with a large water reserve. You also havent adequately demonstrated why there is any disadvantage to the tank method.

This is not an "attack" this is criticism and no it's not, it's because I'm bored so I go off and comment on tech people have made. It just happened to be your riot vehicle that I saw I felt the need to comment.
Well you must be extremely bored, because you're grasping at straws and it shows.

Nano soft, it seems that you have missed the entire point if non-lethal force, or even riot control. You want to control a riot, you do not use live ammunition. You subdue them to a point where they no longer have the ability to create the mess for a short period of time. If you want to use machine guns to scare them, that's fine, it's not going to achieve any effect other than scare off some of the morally weak protestors. Similarily, if you use live ammunition only as a way to scare them off, then the rioters/protestors/etc will eventually realize that, and will just continue their acts since they know that you are not going to kill them off or/and mortally wound them, but just fire some bullets above their heads and hopefulyl that they will kill no one.

At the same time, live ammunition causes uncertainity. You shoot the space above people's heads with live ammunition. While many will realize that it's just a scare tactic and ignore it (well, unless you actually kill them, which is another matter), others will think that you are going to shoot them. And what if the aim is off, and a person is wounded and killed? What if the .50cal suddenly landed on someone's shoulder and ripped their entire arm off? These protestors/rioters/etc will take it as if you are trying to kill them, and will actually furtehr strengthening why they protest/riot/etc.

Furthermore, larger vehicles do have one advantage: presence. Like an aircraft carrier on the oceans or a formation of bombers in the sky, people will be much more than concerned when they see a big object across a road. Yes, they will know that it's not armed with lethal armaments, but it will again - create a cloud of uncertainity, and fear. While a small vehicle may do the same job in dispersing the crowd with its less-than-lethal weaponry, it certainly is not going to have the same psychological effect.

Protection for the worst? I don't see why it is necessary. You use less-than-lethal weapon when you subdue someone (or a group of people) when they pose a potential danger. If they actually shoot an RPG at you, are you just going to continue to shoot pellet guns? No, you are going to arm yourself! With live ammunition, to _shoot_ _back_!

Really, there's still a difference between comments/suggestions that are actually rational in substance and comments/suggestions that only exhibits the utter misunderstanding of the basic concept of riot control.

[OOC: Liberal Imperialism, what Liberal Imperialism? ;)]

To: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary, Democratic Imperium of Praetonia
From: Nicole Lewis
Lieutenant President, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
Subject: L15 Centurion

The Incorporated Sarzonian Government is extraordinarily pleased with the utility of the fine vehicle mentioned in the subject line and, due to the emergence of anti-war protestors in various major cities in Sarzonia, we have secured an emergency exception to our Domestic Defence Appropriations Act, which we note was proposed by one of our Liberal Imperialist Delegates. As a result, we would like to order 50,000 of these vehicles to be delivered as soon as is practicable to multiple locations througout Sarzonia.

Woodstock Major Chip Moose has told me that Police Chief Harold Brashear has taken a personal interest in the vehicle and says his former lieutenant literally got on his hands and knees begging him for 10,000 of them. As a result, we would like to earmark 10,000 for Woodstock proper and use the remaining 40,000 in other parts of the country.

We look forward to your response.

[OOC2: Nano Soft, you do NOT fire live ammunition into a crowd or over a crowd's head unless you want to risk a political nightmare and ostracism from the international community. Not a good move.]

To: Nicole Lewis
Lieutenant President, Incorporated States of Sarzonia
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion

Representatives of Imperial Praetonian Ordnance have informed me that they were very pleased by the enthusiastic responce of your police forces to the announcement of the vehicle. I myself an pleased to be able to allow another transaction with our Sarzonian friends to go ahead. Your 50,000 units will be completed at an ultimate average rate of 300 units per month, and so will require a total of 14 years to complete the entire order. I hope that your police authorities are as pleased with their new vehicles as they have been seeing the specifications, and I look forward to future Sarzonian orders of Praetonian produce.

OOC: Nano-soft critisized my storefront too.

IC:

The Leafanistani Government is glad to see that once again Praetonia has produced powerful, modern, creative solutions to problems. Our Senate feels that death, is an extreme thing and must be limited. So we need a better solution than firetrucks and riot police. This vehicle is that. It packs intimidation, non-lethal power, and versitility all in one. And with that we would like to buy the production rights to the L15 for $1bn and buy 10,000 more vehicles to ensure that we have this capability before we are able to produce it. That comes to a grand total of $31bn, and we have wired half the money. The rest will be wired on confirmation of our order. Thank you very much.

-Minister of Arms Acquisition.

To: Minister of Arms Acquisition
From: Tiberius Polax, MP
Foreign Secretary
Subject: L15 Centurion

Thankyou for your compliments concerning our vehicle and the Praetonian arms industry in general, and I hope that your units will serve your nation's police forces well. The 10,000 examples you have ordered from us will require 7 years of construction time, to be delivered at a rate of 120 units per month.

OOC: I dont mind it when people offer constructive criticism, but when people make silly arguments because they're "bored"...

The nation of Al Ahmera is willing to purchase by design as many L-15's as possible to quell the insugence inside its boarders of the city "Ji-Umarii"
Lord Al Asamari

OOC: See (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434782)

OOC:also Nano soft if you start firing live .50 cal ammo over the rioters heads in a urban area you risk killing innocent people in buildings and such, you need to think where the bullets will end up.

IC: the Tokera wishes to purchase production rights for $1 billion and produce 20,000 vehicles for $1 billion for royalty. For a total of $2 billion.

ooc: umm you do realise by what I mean when I say over the heads of the rioters I mean over the roof tops? Any little hippy who wants to go outside and pretend he knows shit about the government is going be scared out of his pants when he gets hit from pellets from AIRSOFT GUNS(not a tank), high pressurized water cannons spraying him, FLASH BANG GRENADES(Learn what the hell a flashbang is!) going off, and add in some highly flashing sparklers to add to the confusion effect with the flashbang grenades, and then yo have gun shots being heard. You know what that'll paint in his head? A war! It'll scare him the hell away for much cheaper price then just putting a water cannon on a heavy tank with a few Airsoft guns and a Grenade launcher. Think realistically for christ sake! A REALISTIC government is going want to spend the least amount of money to scare these crap heads as fast as possible. A big fat tank might do the job but why waste the money when all you need is a fire truck type of hose, couple Airsoft guns, FLASHBANG grenades, and some live ammo guns. That'll add up much cheaper then actually building an entire tank and sticking all this type of stuff inside it.

Omz222 no these are untrained(well most are... unless you have military training in the school systems like I do) civilians who most of them would piss their pants if you simply imply all the tactics I stated.

The type of riot control being shown by a large expensive armor vehicle is utterly useless when you can imply cheaper and more effective tactics without the armor vehicle.

Scamptica Prime wishes to purchase 500 units at a cost of $1,500,000,000. Money to be wired upon confirmation.

A war!
...as if shooting damn 12.7mm ammunition, with the serious risk of blowing someone's head off, atop their heads isn't greater of a war? And as if restraining the protestors/rioters aren't this so-called conflict you speak off, and as if the protestors won't know that you are just trying to scare them off, and continues to throw their rocks and rushes onto the police with molotov cocktails under a hail of bullets above their heads?

why waste the money
Uhh... because it is much more audacious, is more efficient, better protected, and packs much more non-lethal weaponry than a fire truck with some extra improvised mounted LTL weapons?

more visibility otherwise they'll be cleaning blood off the track for a long time.
a bit big and over armoured, you just need steel and a riot coating,
armoured exhaust
no spikey bits that could hurt people
a bit of a long barrel, just a short one is needed.
no bits that rioters can climb on.
secrurity .eg. powerful locks
low centre of gravity

just the little things, sorry for being picky

Another condescending yet ill-informed post from Nanosoft...

ooc: umm you do realise by what I mean when I say over the heads of the rioters I mean over the roof tops?
When you fire a gun, the bullet doesnt just disappear into the ether. They drop, and they are still dangerous (indeed in WWI it was an established tactic to fire up into the air to rain fire down on enemy troops at long ranges). There is no reason to use real bullets just to make a loud noise when you can use concussion grenades, and it's also dangerous.

Any little hippy who wants to go outside and pretend he knows shit about the government is going be scared out of his pants when he gets hit from pellets from AIRSOFT GUNS(not a tank)
A "tank" isnt a weapon that you fire, it's only a chassis, armour and gun-mount. It doesnt actually matter what it is that mounts the weapon you're employing, it's the weapon itself, and the Centurion mounts 2 such machineguns, if you'd care to actually read the description.

And despite your obvious political bent, this isnt designed to be used against liberal protestors - it's designed to be used against people out to cause trouble (eg Anarchists), or football hooliganism that gets out of control. Believe it or not, you dont need a watercannon to combat hippies.

high pressurized water cannons spraying him,
Which the Centurion has...

FLASH BANG GRENADES(Learn what the hell a flashbang is!)
I find it incredible that you continue to insinuate that I am ignorant, when it is clearly you who has not even read the piece he is criticising and lacks any real knowledge of military terminology. If you did have any such knowledge, you would know that a Concussion Grenade (listed as being fired by the 40mm automatic grenade launcher mounted on the Centurion is in fact merely another name for a "flashbang grenade".

going off, and add in some highly flashing sparklers to add to the confusion effect with the flashbang grenades,
Why do you need sparklers? The concussion grenades already produce a 1 million Candela flash.

and then yo have gun shots being heard. You know what that'll paint in his head? A war! It'll scare him the hell away for much cheaper price then just putting a water cannon on a heavy tank with a few Airsoft guns and a Grenade launcher.
I dont quite understand your point. The solution you have suggested is exactly the same as the one that the Centurion offers (minus the gunshots and sparklers, which are superfluous as they cant even be seen or heard above the noise and light produced by the concussion grenades). The only difference is that under your system, the intimidation and barricade-destroying capabilities of the tank are not available to the police, and the policemen deploying the riot control systems are open to attack from rioters who have, in the past, been known to kill policemen despite the presence of watercannons and tear gas.

Think realistically for christ sake! A REALISTIC government is going want to spend the least amount of money to scare these crap heads as fast as possible. A big fat tank might do the job but why waste the money when all you need is a fire truck type of hose, couple Airsoft guns, FLASHBANG grenades, and some live ammo guns. That'll add up much cheaper then actually building an entire tank and sticking all this type of stuff inside it.
A realistic government is going to be willing to spend relatively small amounts of money to protect its policemen from injury and death at the hands of rioters. Perhaps your government doesnt in fact care about the lives of its police officers, but that is your concern, not mine.

The type of riot control being shown by a large expensive armor vehicle is utterly useless when you can imply cheaper and more effective tactics without the armor vehicle.
The tactics you have suggested are indeed cheaper, but not better. Indeed, all your good ideas appear to have been stolen from my post, and then you've added on silly, irresponsible and down-right dangerous ideas like firing machineguns into the air / crowd. In addition, your system is also more dangerous and likely to result in substantial civilian deaths and injuries and moderate police casualties. My system is likely to incur light civilian casualties and no police casualties. It's basically up to the government - do you want to spend money to ensure the safety of your populace and your police? If yes, then buy this vehicle. If no, then dont (I honestly dont care what you choose to do in your own nation) - just dont expect police morale and public approval for your government.

OOC: I agree that the barrel should probably be shorter, but that's no biggie, and Prae is pretty good at designing things so he probably had a reason.

Other then that I believe it should have some sort of LETHAL defense for it, too, but it looks GREAT.

more visibility otherwise they'll be cleaning blood off the track for a long time.
As said in the post, the dozer blade is positioned in front of the tracks to stop people falling under them. On the more specific issue of visibility - it's a 2m tall, 9m long tank. How much more visibility do you want?
a bit big and over armoured, you just need steel and a riot coating,
What is "riot coating"? And yes it is somewhat over armoured for rioting, but as I said to a previous post, I also intend to use it in a counter-insurgency role.
armoured exhaust
no spikey bits that could hurt people
Yes it has the former, and the hull has been kept fairly smooth on areas that could come into contact with people.
a bit of a long barrel, just a short one is needed.
True, but a longer barrel is more intimidating and gives the vehicle a longer range.
no bits that rioters can climb on.
True but it's a bit hard. Besides, that's what the Area Denial Grenade system is for, and the Pellet Claymore Mines.
secrurity .eg. powerful locks
Ooops, forgot to write about them. Will add them tomorrow.
low centre of gravity
It weighs 34 tonnes... it isnt going to get flipped over.
just the little things, sorry for being picky
No problem. These are all sensible suggestions, which is more than I can say for some of the replies I've been getting.

lets just stop critisising nano-soft and Praetonia.

If Nano-soft wants to fire live 12.7 rounds at people let him.
and its praetonia's choice to have a big tank.

although we share a common interest in the

"lets try to NOT kill/scare/confuse rioters with ariel bombardments and tactical missiles, otherwise they might get a tad more angry and/or Violent."

generally trying to make people shit thier pants isnt going to stop them from rioting, and just scaring people with Uber-kill police wont work.

Disclaimer Krob = Not RP God

sorry As said in the post, the dozer blade is positioned in front of the tracks to stop people falling under them. On the more specific issue of visibility - it's a 2m tall, 9m long tank. How much more visibility do you want? visibility for the driver i meant, so he doesnt smush people.

and riot coating i meant liek a nonstick fire retardent paint, like telephone boxs are coated in.

sorry visibility for the driver i meant, so he doesnt smush people.

and riot coating i meant liek a nonstick fire retardent paint, like telephone boxs are coated in.
Oh right sorry. Well Im thinking most people will run away before it reaches them, and anyone who doesnt will be scooped up by the dozer blade rather than "smushed". And that riot coating thing sounds like a good idea, and I'll add it. Thanks.

Btw all outstanding orders = confirmed. im too tired / lazy to make an ic post.

OoC: Sorry, I don't usually post pointless text but I'm afraid you brutally owned Nano Soft far beyond the standard call of duty. Nicely done Prae, I shall send you an oligarchic muffin shortly. ;)