NationStates Jolt Archive

Lublin, (Russian) Kingdom of Poland - 20 March 1902

The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Vladimir Nikolaevich Lamzdorf, was first to arrive with his advance party. With Leftist agitation and terrorism on the rise in the Empire, the Premier's presence was needed in Sankt-Peterburg for as long as possible to defend both Russia and his own recently-won position from enemies on both the Left and Right. Arriving by train via Krakow, he travelled through a community-or rather, group of communities--that captured nearly all the paradoxes of modern-day Eastern Europe.

The city's population had nearly doubled in the past twenty years, as its position as a center of manufacturing grew rapidly in importance. Yet its skyline was still dominated by its medieval castle and multitudes of churches and tenements that could best be described as "quaint." In much the same way, thought Lamzdorf, as the newly-industrializing Slavs remain dominated by medieval Tsars and Patriarchs and the quaint superstitions of the ignorant poor. The strife and enlightenment inherent in the interaction of Slav and Jew was highlighted as well by the uneasy coexistence of local Poles with one of the largest, best-educated Jewish populations in Europe. The "Jewish Oxford" was how some referred to the nearby Yeshiva, and it was one of the most prestigious in the world.

Lamzdorf was comfortable with Jews, like the Premier-but also like the Premier, such men were rare in the East.

Arriving at the Castle itself, Lamzdorf took up residence in expectation of the arrival of other Delegates. Not all had responded yet, but hopefully at least the British and Austrian representatives would appear in time for the scheduled commencement of negotiations, on 30 April (RL = today or tomorrow). That would also give his crew of domestics enough time to restore the drafty, somewhat ramshackle old fortress to at least a modicum of presentability and comfort. And it would give him time to review some of the issues and continue communicating with his various opposite numbers beforehand. Hopefully nothing would explode in the meantime . . .

This could be the occasion of a historic realignment of power in Europe, he mused, or it could be an abysmal failure.

He did not sleep well that night.

Lord Lansdowne, the British Foreign Minister, boarded the ship that was to take him around Denmark to Danzig and from there to Lublin. He hoped that there he could hammer out a deal that would leave Europe secure and peaceful for the rest of his lifetime, whilst improving the economy and perhaps bringing stability to South Esat Europe. A lot rested on his shoulders and the world would undoubtedly be waiting with bated breath for the results of the Lublin Conference.

Luis Martínez Beltrán, Embassador to Austria-Hungary, had begun preparations for the conference since recieving the telegram a month ago. He was set to travel by rail to Lublin, the next day.

"This is very big." He told his aid. "You'll have to take care of Austrian diplomacy for me."

He was worried a bit that the treaty would stall, be watered down, or worse, be unfavorable, and had prepaired several drafts of various treaties Argentina would be happy to sign. He was so preoccupied, that his aid had already been handling most of the diplomatic events, that did not require his physical presence.

He boarded the train the next day (25th April) and rode deep into the heart of Poland.

Ernst von Koerber, Premier of Austria-Hungary, stepped into the luxary car that would carry him to Lublin. The government, specifically the Hungarian Parliment were worried that this conference would push democratic reforms in Austria-Hungary while the Austrian Parliment was worried that the conference would lead to the lose of territory. Ernst personally just hoped the conference would lead to an alliance, a feeling mirrored by the Royal family.

Hamid Parviz had a hell of a journey. He was given three horses and told to ride to Baku in Russia. Razoul had recieved word of the pending conference and send his friend of 20 years. Hamid knew Turkish, Arabic, Russian, English, French, German, Persian, and a bit of Spanish. He was in his late 30s and had fought in some of the riots and was a stout supporter of the Faithful. He was also an expert horse rider. In other words, he was perfect.

Hamid had only to kill 3 guards and a Turk, infidels anyways. In Baku, several contacts and a few old friends, as well as a bribe here and there got Hamid on a train to L'vov and then, when he ran out of money and friends, he stole a horse and rode to Lubin. When his horse collapsed, he shot it and walked 30 miles to Lubin.

From there, he used "forceful diplomacy" to find where the conference was. Walking up to the building, the guards stopped him.

"Damn ruffian! Get out of here! This is important."

"I am from the rightful government of Persia, and I am here as the Commander's voice on these matters."

"Yeah, and I'm the Tzar. Now, get out of here before it gets bloody!"

Hamid drew his sword and held it at the guard's throat. "Open the door or you die like the Ukranian dog I killed to eat."

The door opened and a rather messy Hamid queried a butler, "Excuse me sir! Yes, can you please inform me where I might clean up? I am the delegate from Persia."

"Ahh yes sir! Up the stairs is a washroom. You have, ahem, proper clothes, no?"

"Right here!" Hamid slapped his backpack, which was covered in blood and mud. Inside, however, was pristine silk robes and a turban fit for a King. Actually, it was one of the Shah's turbans. He stole it along the way. "Thank you sir!" Hamid went and bathed and then put on the Shah's best perfumes and stepped into the conference room.

OOC: We know where slavic relations with a certain Jew's ideas leads....Communism in Russia!

IC:
Alexandre Veliki has to take a buggy from Skopje to Rumania to catch a train to the conference in Lublin. I will need to see the Ottomans about getting a train station in Skopje that is connected to the outside world when i get back. Alexandre thought as he travelled to Poland. It was strange for the leader of a nation to be present at such a conference, but of course, Alexandre didn't have many better things to do, as he was in-charge of a powerless state, and he hated meeting with the Ottomans.

He arrived in the city of Lublin with a few days to spare, but made sure his presence was noticed at the castle where the conference was supposed to take place.

OoC: As many of you already know, my Interior Minister was shot on 2 April 1902. This is a simple historical event (it actually kind of caught me by surprise, to tell the truth), as I determined that nothing I'd been actually RPing would have prevented it.
Pogroms are in fact occurring in Russian territory even as the delegates arrive, though their existence is covered up quickly and the Imperial Army, in response to Premier Witte's orders, is actually trying, with uneven sincerity, to protect Jewish communities from rampaging anti-Semitic lynch mobs.
The reason why there's anti-Semitism is simply because, as my Macedonian kinsman points out, Jews are associated with the political Left, and the assassin was a Leftist, so, in the logic of bigotry . . .
To the delegates, however, the most obvious upshot of recent events is the suddenly vast numbers of soldiers which begin appearing in Lublin the first week of April, and continue to increase in force until the whole town starts seeming like a garrison by a week before the official start of the Conference.
For the most part, delegates are likely to assume that the increased security is for their own protection in the wake of the assassination, and this assumption is mostly correct.
However, any delegates who get curious about the seemingly unnecessarily large numbers of soldiers stationed in and around the Jewish Quarter might ask one of the guards something like, "What's going on, here?"
If so, the guard is likely to spit, and sneer, "We're protecting the Yids."
It is an ugly time.
I will post the arrival of Premier Witte tonight. Most of the negotiation, on my part at least, will take place tomorrow.

The last four weeks had been without question the worst of his life.

With the assassination of Interior Minister Sipyagin by some damned idiotic Revolutionary--who just stood there afterward, yelling, in the street--the Acting Minister and director of Police von Plehve had very nearly persuaded the Tsar of the "pressing need" for a "solution" to the "Jewish Question." In von Plehve's reptilian view of the world, apparently, Socialism was nothing more or less than a Jewish conspiracy to poison the great Slavic race and degrade and debauch Russia's noble and sacred character in favor of some contemptible secularized Franco-Germanic internationalism.

It was that last bit that had finally allowed Witte to outmaneuver this dangerous butcher, whose hands were already drenched with the blood of tens of thousands of innocent Lithuanians.

Simply drily crushing his opponent's slavering bigotry with simple logic and evident facts--among them, that the assassin had not been Jewish, nor even some unwashed, ignorant commoner, but a Great Russian of unimpeachably noble lineage--had not been enough. Witte had some time ago discovered that Nikolai's simple mind, plainspoken chauvinism, and weird, mystical credulity all conspired to render the Sovereign Emperor nearly impervious to reason in its ordinary sense. Von Plehve's bizarre delusions of secret wars being waged for souls by hidden congregations of dark adepts actually played better with the Tsar than Graf Witte's deft use of the actual evidence and urbane retorts.

More than once in the last four weeks he had had occasion to rethink his opposition to constitutional government.

But in the end the even the Interior Minister (for it had been in vain that Witte had pled with the Tsar that promoting the very man responsible for the failure of security in the first place was a self-evident mistake) had to agree that a bloodbath now would destroy all possibility of drawing non-Slavs, specifically the powerful British and Austrians, into an Alliance against the Franco-German menace.

Witte did not know what had occasioned the breach between Nikolai and his cousin Wilhelm the year before. Nikolai refused to speak of it with anyone, but based on what few clues he dropped here and there, Witte speculated that Nikolai didn't really know, either, but that it troubled the Tsar.

In any event, the specifics did not matter. What mattered was that Germany's Western border, for the first time since the reign of Charlemagne, was secure. Without so much as a consultation with Russia. There was little doubt, therefore, as to the Kaiser's ultimate intentions. Drang nach Osten. The Teutonic Knights would return.

The French, however, had recently concluded a peace with Spain. That meant either that England was their target or, as Witte had long suspected, President Loubet was simply a fatuous liberal airhead who honestly desired Pan-European peace on the basis of pieces of paper, rather than the disposition of steel.

That made the Kaiser even more dangerous.

The preparations for the Conference had therefore gone forward even as his ultimately-inconclusive political duel with von Plehve was being fought.

And now he had arrived. Late, of course, just after dinner. Well, the opening session needn't go on long, he thought to himself, and with the Grace of God I may get good night's sleep afterward.

The man who addressed the assembled delegates in the conference room (converted from the old Castle's dining-hall) looked, frankly, like he'd been through Hell.

"Your Excellencies," he began, "Good Evening. I, the Sovereign Emperor, and Mother Russia are all honored by your presences. The Sovereign Emperor bids me express his gratitude on your kind condolences regarding our recent tragedy. And, personally, I should like to apologize for my own tardiness. Under the circumstances, I am sure you understand.
"As all of you are of course aware, the recent Franco-German Accord has fundamentally shifted the alignment of European power in a way that will resonate for generations.
"We are, all of us, gathered in this room tonight because our homelands are affected most strongly by the new security situation. All of us understand that with France and Germany no longer acting as checks to one another's power, the potential of each for mischief of the highest order is expanded beyond reckoning.
"All of us, even our Persian and Argentinian friends, are possible targets. And it is clear we must defend ourselves, our citizens and subjects, from the possibility of Franco-Germanic domination. It is equally clear that we must do so collectively, as none of us, with the exception of Britain perhaps, are strong enough to stand against their united power on our own.
To that end, I should like to propose a Treaty of Mutual Defense to be signed by all present, to form a Grand Alliance to defend our peoples against the Franco-German Accord. For some," he indicated Lord Lansdowne, "the provisions may be quite straightforward. For others, such as myself and Meinherr Koerber, certain questions must be settled.
"I have no doubt that those questions will be settled, however, as necesssity is what drives us now to virtue.
"Owing to the lateness of the hour, for which I take full responsibility, I should like to keep this opening session fairly abbreviated. The main negotiations can commence tomorrow. But I should like at the least to hear from each of you your own views on the matter, and what you think is best to be done."

With that, Graf Sergei Yulyevich Witte, Premier of the Empire of All the Russias, finally. sat. down.

Cestmir Aleksic sat staring casually out the window of the locomotive’s passenger car as it rumbled through the eastern European countryside. His hands were folded casually in his hands, and he allowed himself to recline comfortably against the rich leather. He was not a particularly tall man, and from a casual glance, one would not find him particularly remarkable. He had the look of an aristocrat, a neatly groomed individual with black hair and a bushy mustache. If one looked closely, one would have noted a small seal on the gold ring he wore on the third finger of his right hand. To one educated in Srbijan politics, one would have recognized it as the seal of the Obrenovic family, the reigning royal family in Serbia, and it would have been this that would have informed one of the man’s importance.

Cestmir Aleksic was the chief diplomat for, and longtime personal friend of King Aleksander Obrenovic, a man that many Srbijans considered a weak ruler, though Aleksic failed to share their views. He saw the king as a man of potential, but one who was a bit too politically naïve, one who lacked the passion to properly glorify Serbia and bring to realization the age old dream of a Jugoslawische Foederation. Still, Aleksic’s loyalty was to Srbija, and he took every opportunity to attempt to kindle the nationalist fire in his king that he felt in his own heart, and that burned in his steel grey eyes. However, one was not to mistake that fire for warmth, for he was far from being a kind man. A passionate man yes, but also a cold man.

As he stared out at the rolling hills, newly green in this early spring, he considered his destination. It had been a simple task to convince King Aleksander to send a representative to the conference, but he still feared that the king did not grasp the great potential of the meeting. This would be a chance to lay an international foundation upon which the next steps for a greater Srbija could be built. It was a chance to bring to light the devilry of the Ottoman Empire and unite the people of the Balkans under a banner of independence and brotherhood. It was a chance to gather support from the great powers to make Serbia strong against the threats of the west, namely the new Franco-German alliance, though this was further from his principle priorities of opposing the Turkish devils. A great vision was playing out in his mind, and he felt the fire of patriotism burning hotter and hotter in his chest. Lublin. This was where the dream would be set in motion. This was where the wheel would be oiled.

As he stepped onto the station platform in the Polish city, he felt the sweet fresh air sweep over him, feeling it as the gust propelled him towards his destination. So far from Srbija, yet the potential to lift her to greatness felt closer than ever.

To that end, I should like to propose a Treaty of Mutual Defense to be signed by all present, to form a Grand Alliance to defend our peoples against the Franco-German Accord.

"Meinherr Witte," began Koerber "you are right in saying I would have questions. What would this treaty include? How many troops would we be obliged to commit? How would nations like Argentina be able to help my nation or vise versa?

Do not mistake the purpose of the questions however, I am in support of this treaty. However I must admit that recent unrest in my nation has made the government wary of….shall we say foreign entanglements?”

Luis Martínez Beltrán spoke up to answer the Austrian delegate. "How could Argentina help your fair country? While I admit that our army isn't nearly as large as those of France or Germany, you will notice our relative possition to French and German colonies in Africa and the French colony in South America. How many troops do you suppose France would have to send to hold onto their colonies, if the might of Argentina was sent to bear on them? Our supply lines would be shorter, and they would be embroiled in a European war as well."

He laughed, "I should be asking how you could hope to help Argentina. But the answer is obvious: Numbers. Any little bit of help in terms of soldiers means less French/German/Spanish soldiers sitting along your front, because they're too busy defending thier various colonies. And it's the same for us, and the same for all of the countries gathered here."

Alexandre Veliki stood up, trying to bring a fear of his to everyone's mind,

"Though i see the threat of the French, Germans, and Spainish as the most dangerous topic, there is still the Ottomans. They have openly been flirting with the Western European nations, and oppress Christians from Armenia to my own Macedonia. Should they swing to the Franco-Germanic-Espanol alliance, then we will have a very powerful force against us, with a knife to our belly.

"I do not see how we solve this problem, they seem to ignore diplomatic pleas, and economic suggestions. Anyone have any thoughts or solutions on this problem?"


Alexandre Veliki knew that the Ottomans would stab the Slavic and Eastern Europeans at the first sign of weakness, though this wouldn't concern many of the members here directly, like Argentina, but it was a very dangerous situation for Persia, Russia, and Macedonia.

I bet my very presence here will not make those bastards happy in the least, ah well, there will be time to deal with that soon enough.

Alexandre sat back down, waiting for further issues needing his attention, or replys to his own issue.

Hamid chuckled. He had fought many a Turk in his days and he knew they were nothing. He stood.

"If I may so bold as to speak, I believe most of us agree that the Ottomans are a threat. In the big picture, a mild one, but a threat none-the-less. The Ottomans have allied themselves with our vile Shah, and every day we worry that they may cross the border and crush our well orchistrated plans. However, thanks to our friends, the Russians, that threat is becoming less of an issue.

Though our influence in Persia is small, our influence outside, as you can see, is vast. We have plans in order that will bring this coup to an end, perhaps within months. All we ask for is your patience and assistance when the time comes to put the sword away for the hammer. However, we Persians do not believe that time is now. We believe the only way to deal with the Old Turk is to crush him! We must crush him swiftly and jointly: Serbs and Macedonians from the West, Russians from the North, Persians from the East, and Britons and Argentinians from the South! We must make him pay for what he has done to each of us the past 500 years! And we must do it soon.

My commanders have come up with a plan that involves each of us, should you wish to view it, please inform me and I shall have my men forward it to you. However, there are many ideas from many places here and would wish to hear them all."

Hamid sat down, appeased with the slightly shocked looks on some of the less radical.

Both Witte and Lamzdorf, who remained at the Premier's side, knew exactly what Premier Koerber had meant by "foreign entanglements." What Austria had not yet quite come to address by name as "the Slavic Question." It was the greatest possible obstacle to a potential treaty between Wien and Sankt-Peterburg. Both were relieved, then, when Ambassador Martinez began to answer the Austrian. Their relief, however, turned to alarm when the Macedonian representative spoke, followed by the formidable Persian. Perhaps it was a mistake to bring them all into one room, thought Witte. Russia's interests may be similar to their own, but Wien and London . . . God have mercy. He nodded imperceptibly at Lamzdorf, who inconspicuously wrote out a pair of short notes and passed them almost invisibly to a nearby footman while his mentor addressed the table.

"Gentlemen," the Count began, "the Sublime Porte is nothing if not a problem to be addressed--you will find many men in Russia, and probably several in this very room, who are in full agreement with you both. I must admit that I myself, however, am not so sure that I am among them.

"But in any event the immediate necessity to Europe, if not entirely to we Easterners, is the presentation of united face against Germany and France. That is the topic at hand--the further concerns of all parties will receive their full treatment subsequently."

He faced Koerber directly, trying not quite successfully to ignore the fact that the Austrian had referred to Count Witte as "meinherr" a few moments before. He blinked. God, he was tired.

"With regard to your questions, sir, I believe that any treaty should consist, firstly, of the protocol indicating that no signatory, for indefinite future, shall wage war against another signatory." He paused. "If a temporal or other limit placed on that provision will make it easier for anyone's population to swallow the agreement, then we can look into that.

"Secondly, we ought to agree that any attack or other act of aggression by any external power upon one or more signatories shall be construed as a deed directed against all. In other words, that a declaration or other act of war against one shall result in a state of war existing between all the Allies and the aggressor state.

"War being by nature uncertain, I do not think that the question of how many troops to commit should necessarily be answered beforehand, but the amount in any conflict should certainly not interfere with any one state's capacities to defend itself. I should not expect Argentina, for instance, to dispatch all her power to Europe or Africa in the event of war, and thereby leave herself open to, say, an invasion from the Republic of Chile.

"Nor do I believe that the proposed treaty should enter into effect when an aggressive war is waged by any signatory upon a previously-neutral state. If Skopje's allies in Tehran and Wien wish to join her in the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire, then let it be so. But Britain ought not to be obligated to participate if her Parliament desires it not.

"As to the questions that must be resolved between Wien and Sankt-Peterburg specifically, we are honored to have here with us a delegate from Beograd," his hand waved vaguely at the recently-arrived Minister Aleksic, "who should be able to better illuminate some of the issues to which our respective self-interests may blind us."

Witte rose.

"With that, I am afraid I must retire for the evening. We will convene again tomorrow, and every day thereafter, until we either have a consensus or a final falling-out."

He smiled ruefully.

"I am looking forward to it. By your leave, gentlemen."

Aleksic and Hamid were both delivered notes saying:
We will discuss this further in confidence I am empowered by the Tsar himself to negotiate re: the Turk
-VN Lamzdorf

OoC: Loubet's government might well fall before we get a treaty at this rate, and in any event it would be impossible to RP fully the weeks that have already passed in game-time. I propose that henceforth we simply come out and say what we want OoC. Anybody spying on us will be able to get the gist, but that's realistic, anyway. I'll go ahead and post my wish-list tomorrow.
I hope this is working.

OOC: I'm going to be gone most of tommorow so don't be expecting any indepth posts for a while.

Basically, on my "wishlist" is:

Territories:
Afghanistan: Herat and West Afghanistan (however that is a separate point)
Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan: To be discussed with Russia
Azerbaijian and the port of Baku
Iraq and lands as far north as the Euphrates
Syria and the port of Alexandretta for connection to Mediterranean
Kuwait
possibly Oman

Other:
Foreign Investment after the Revolution
Naval growth
Choo-Choo Trains
Discussion with Britian and Russia about "Spheres of Influence" and possible reduction

I know, I know. I AM a ruthless expansionist, etc. But this is what I hope to "own". I figure after the coup, there is going to be a lot of revolutionary furor and not a lot to vent it on, so I thought Iraq and Syria was a good place to do that. And don't worry. I don't plan to do this within like three years. I'm just being upfront with what I want :p

Lord Lansdowne had already committed himself to signing the treaty with Russia and from now on would attempt to convince others to sign the treaty.

OOC:

I will be gone for all of next week and have made arrangements in the main thread for the British to blunder on through 1903 as best as possible and not commit themselves to any wars etc.

Anyway my wishlist:

Territory:

Eastern Afghanistan
Ex-Ottoman territories, eg. some push west from Egypt into Tripolitania or East into the Middle Eastern Territories.

Other:

Further Military expansion (Keep up with other navies growth)
Increased domestic social reform, improve education and health systems
Increased foreign relations to attempt to avoid any war which would be costly


And Parthini, Kuwait became a British Protectorate in 1899 so I hope your not planning on invading that...

From Ottomans:
Their Annihilation, or at least reduction to Central Anatolia
Freedom and Full Sovereignty for Greater Macedonia (including Salonika)
Freedom and Full Sovereignty for Bulgaria
Control of Constantinople - our Jerusalem

From Austria-Hungary (we can discuss what compensation you think would be fair):
Mutual Defense Pact
Guarantee of Serbian Sovereignty from Both Russia and Austria-Hungary
Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina to be given to Kingdom of Srbija (upon Referendum?)
Home Rule to be granted to Slovenes, Czechs, and Slovaks

From Serbia:
Mutual Defense Pact
Investment
Guarantee of Macedonian and Bulgarian Sovereignty, in affiliation with Yugoslav and Pan-Slavic Alliances

From Macedonia:
Mutual Defense Pact
Investment
Affiliation with Yugoslav and Pan-Slavic Alliances

From Britain and Argentina
Mutual Defense Pact
Investment
Afghanistan? On our very border? 'Slong as you don't object to Constantinople

From Iran
Yeow! Some of my best petroleum-producing territories. And a reduction of Russia's Sphere of Influence? And bases in Afghanistan?
For all that, I hope you're prepared to give me your soul. It's the only way I could avoid the fall of my (Witte's) government if I signed away all that.

OOC: I agree with your wishes upon us, but how would Yugoslavia be taken into account? Would each nation act as a sovereign nation or would Serbia have overall control or what?

I am fine with that version of the treaty...

Wishlist:
Economic Growth....and ALBANIA!
Perhaps a small navy to protect fishing assets.

Austria-Hungary's wish list: (and what a wishlist it is)

Maintain sovereignty of all territories currently under AH control
Improve control current territories.

Ottomans:
Mutual Defense Pact
Investment Protection
Freedom and Full Sovereignty for Macedonia

From Russia
Mutual Defense Pact
Investment Protection
Free Trade Agreements

[b]From Britain, Argentina, Iran, Macedonia, Serbia:[/b
Mutual Defense Pact
Investment Protection

Austria:
Defense Pact with the Ottomans? Did I read that right?
How about Austrian sovereignty with Home Rule and Minority Rights in Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Czechoslovakia? It couldn't be satisfactory to Srbija, but it would be better than German overlordship. Or if you think of something I can offer you to make Slavic independence worthwhile, name it: the freedom of the Slavs is critically important to Russia.

Macedonia:
I was thinking a federation of sovereign, ostensibly equal Balkan states, probably headquartered in Beograd. Possibly as an initial step to a similar, future Pan-Slavic Federation headquatered in Kiev.

Britain:
The Partition of the Ottoman Empire is likely to take place in 1903. Can you find someone to sub for you while you're gone?

Other than that, I'm chiefly awaiting the answers of Iran, and otherwise fine with everything.
I might suggest two treaty versions: one Mutual Defense Pact (under the circumstances outlined previously by Witte) to take effect immediately between the powers in case of attack, and a second, more comprehensive agreement to be hammered out by me, Austria, Srbija, and Iran.
Obviously, the main sticking-points here are between myself, Austria, and Iran, since those involve the desired transfer of territories. Iran wants some of mine, and I want some of Austria's. If only we could work out some kind of round-robin . . .

((OOC: Sorry for not having posted recently. I'm occupied with the ViZion war during the day and CPR classes at night, so I'll try to catch up. As for now, here's a brief OOC wishlist as requested. Alot of this coincides with what Vas Pokhoronim requests.

From Macedonia:
-Serbian rule over central and northern Macedonian territories populated heavily by ethnic Serbs.
-Mutual Defense Pact
-Affiliation with Yugoslav Alliances

From Ottoman Empire:
-Destruction or significantly reduced territorial claims
-Freedom and sovereignty for Macedonia
-Freedom and sovereignty for Bulgaria

From Russia:
-Mutual Defense Pact
-Guarantee of Serbian Sovereignty
-Arms contracts (can't get the Mauser contracts if Germany's an enemy)

From Austria-Hungary:
-Mutual Defense Pact
-Guarantee of Serbian Sovereignty
-The territories of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina
-Home Rule to be granted to Slovenes, Czechs, and Slovaks

As to the matter of home rule for the slavic peoples, this is both a decision based on my choses as a player and as some one concerned with keeping this somewhat historically acurrate. I do not believe that the AH government (outside of maybe Franz Ferdinand) would support Home Rule for these territories. As to the matter of giving them more rights, thats already happening in the reforms I'm having AH go through right now, so they will have equal footing as all other AH citzens.

ooc
to get a good picture of what is going on in Europe, especially Eastern Europe, check this out

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch01.htm

From: Alberto Gomez, Foreign Minister, Chilean Republic
To: Russia
Subject: Jews

The President and Congress of the Chilean Republic express dismay at recent reports of attacks against Jews in Russia. The Chilean Republic encourages Jewish immigration, and opens our consulates in St. Petersberg, Kiev, Warsaw, and Odessa for consideration of candidates.

OOC: Ok, first off, I am Persia. Iran is a name the jerk who took over in '35 decided to call the country because it meant Aryan! I DO NOT want to be affiliated with Nazi scum. I am PERSIA!! PH33R M3!!


Besides, AH can have Anatolia :)

Secondly, Britain, I changed my mind. I don't want Kuwait :rolleyes:

Ahem,

Yeah, uhh Russia. You can't have my soul. You are still technically an Infidel. Well at least I could demote you from "People of the Book." I know Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan are full of worthless black goo that Middle Easterners actually eat. It's poisionous to Westerners, you know.... Either way, it used to be mine. I'm just asking for it back. I'm sure we could come to some agreement. You know, I could go back to my Xerxes days and claim Greece and Constantinople too. I'm sure you wouldn't want all the angry muslims to become disgruntled would you :p

Anyways, what happened to you being Fascist and kicking the "dirty Mohammetans out?''

I'm sure we could offer up half of the Petrol in Turkmen/Uzbek-istan and a few cities around there to be the new "Sphere of Doom, I mean Russia". Oh, and it would have to be temporary, like Hong Kong. That way we can see the Tzar's great-grandson, who's mom is going to die after he does so he never gets to be king, cry. :p

BTW, I think all of us should link this thread to Fluffy and show him it would be a BAD idea to switch to OE. I think by pissing off the Macedonians, the Turks "dropped the soap" so to say...

Ok. I'll admit. I had fun with that post :p

Russia Re:My Soul

You can have northern Afghanistan! I'm basically taking Herat and a few towns to the immediate North and a few around Qandahar. I'm basically taking back what was mine 50 years ago. I've got a lot to catch up to :rolleyes:

I was going to, when the rebels win, let the Afghans be a separate nation seeing as how they harbored some of the rebels for a while, but if that is any help to your appetite then go ahead. Poor Afghans :(

Parthini']Ok. I'll admit. I had fun with that post :p

I'd watch your tone, Mahometan.
Iran, Persia, I don't care. It was always my understanding that "Iran" was more accurate, and hence more respectful. Apparently I was mistaken, but as you can see, I won't bother trying in the future.
As for the Fascist thing, that was floated, in confidence, as a possibility, not a certainty. A lot depends on what happens here. And it wasn't going to be immediate in any case.
The deal I was going to cut with you was that if you helped me win over Austria, I'd cede those lands in exchange for trade agreement. Your impatience, however, has bothered me greatly, and I suspect war between us is inevitable. Russia doesn't need your permission to take what she wants.
Loubet's government has fallen anyway. If the Franco-German Accord is no longer a threat, then this Conference has failed.

From Macedonia:
-Serbian rule over central and northern Macedonian territories populated heavily by ethnic Serbs.
-Mutual Defense Pact
-Affiliation with Yugoslav Alliances

I find Serbian control over central and northern Macedonia like a kick in the groin....i mean Skopje is there(our biggest city right now) along with many other larger cities. Also we fear that the Albanian's could be wrongfully treated by Serbian control over an area so heavily populated by them. I wouldn't mind giving up 40 miles of border or so but over half my country? Thats asking too much i think.

I find Serbian control over central and northern Macedonia like a kick in the groin....i mean Skopje is there(our biggest city right now) along with many other larger cities. Also we fear that the Albanian's could be wrongfully treated by Serbian control over an area so heavily populated by them. I wouldn't mind giving up 40 miles of border or so but over half my country? Thats asking too much i think.
I agree. I look at these Germans and Persians and think to myself, Slavs should not fight with Slavs.

*snip*

:(

Parthini']:(
Alright, alright. We'll see if we can pull something worthwhile out of this mess.
A brief vacation for the assembled ministers is in order--say, two weeks' game-time. I won't post again before tomorrow night (RL), and I won't invade Persia before tomorrow night, either.
Persia and me and Austria's has gots some serious negotiatin' to do, though.

OOC:Vas Pokhoronimm get on MSN if you could!

IC: Hamid had his sword drawn on the neck of a Russian Diplomat and was ready to die for his country. About 12 guards had their guns aimed at his head. These Russians had insulted everything he had fought for! A word-fight had broken out among some of the Europeans but when Hamid fought, he used a sword.

Eventually, Hamid was made to calm down, but not after a guard had suffered a bloody nose. The diplomats would have a recess of several nights. Hamid agreed. He would get Razoul to wire him some money and stay in a hotel. Until then, he would sleep on the streets. It was all good for him. Maybe he did need to calm down. Should these talks fail, he thought to himself, the Russians would lose all interest in Persia and may even become belligerent. While he was thinking about it, he had Razoul send up some shisha, too. That would calm him down.

IC: All the diplomats were to take some time off from talks and rest. During this time Alexandre recieved word from his wife in Skopje,

My love,

I wish i was with you, as it is lonely in the estate without you. Also i have some good news and some bad news my dear. The Ottomans have given our state total independency, but have also given half of our lands to the Greeks, I find this most disheartening that my side of the family is now considered Greek, and has to pay taxs and follow the laws of a Greek government, while they are Macedonian. I will count the days until you return, and perhaps we will go down to the lake when you return, just the two of us.

Alexandre couldn't believe his eyes, half his people made part of another nation? This was impossible! And it couldn't of come at a worse time. Damn, this will make it impossible for any good relations with Greece now...hopefully war would not come out of this Alexandre thought as he turned in a restless state on his bed.

OOC: Anyone have any idea how i can solve this problem? Greeks are infamous for the mistreatment of Macedonians in modern day....i would hate to see what they would do back then. Also i will need arms to defend my nation, as the Ottomans only provided for a 20,000 man army i think, and that doesn't leave me with artillery, training, uniforms, helmets, and things of that nature which i will need help producing.

OOC: I am entertaining a Non Agression Pact with the Ottomans, this wouldn't be an alliance and neither nation would be required to support the other militarily but will ensure peace between us. In return I will recieve the region of Tripolitania (Modern Libya) and improved links between our nations both economically and diplomatically.

Therefore I won't be partaking in any invasion of Turkey and so should be able to avoid any big wars over the next week.

IC:
In response to the outrageous demands made by several of the members show that many nations show a flagrant disregard for Austro-Hungarian sovereignty over their own lands. So, it has been decided that Austria-Hungary and its representatives will withdraw from this conference.

Ooc: I’m still willing to ally with nations one a one on one basis.

Talks collapsed. Conference over. In case anyone was still wondering.