NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm designing some of my own rifles and am just throwing around some concepts. The gun for both models would rely heavily on plastics, composites, and lighter metals such as titanium.

Type: Proof of Concept Battle Rifle
Name: XM34
Fire Modes: Semi-Automatic, 3 Round Burst, and Full Automatic.
Round: 8.65 x 55 mm/.34 Caliber Kinetic Energy projectile
Barrel Length: 500mm
Overall Length: 740mm
Magazine Capacity: 21
ROF:
-Full-Auto: 360 rounds/min
-Burst: 700 rounds/min
Muzzle Velocity: 2,952 ft/s (930 m/s)
Maximum Effective Range: 1,780 ft (542.5 m)
Mass w/o Magazine: 6.5 lbs (2.95 kg)
Mass w/ Magazine: 8 lbs (3.63 kg)

Notes: This Battle rifle is not really intended to be fired in full auto mode. Even with it's low ROF, it would be hard to control. Where it will really excell is 3 round burst. It's exceptionaly large round can go through all but the heaviest body armor. Only problem here is overpenetration and heavy round.


Type: Proof of Concept Battle Rifle
Name: XM30
Fire Modes: Semi-Automatic, 3 Round Burst, and Full Automatic.
Round: 7.62 x 51 mm/.30 Caliber Caseless Blended-Metal Kinetic Energy projectile
Barrel Length: 500mm
Overall Length: 740mm
Magazine Capacity: 45
ROF:
-Full-Auto: 600 rounds/min
-Burst: 2,000+ rounds/min
Muzzle Velocity: 3,199 ft/s (1000 m/s)
Maximum Effective Range: 1,780 ft (542.5 m)
Mass w/o Magazine: 6.5 lbs (2.95 kg)
Mass w/ Magazine: 7.5 lbs (3.63 kg)

Notes: This is more of a conventional design. The Blended-Metal ammo allows it to defeat body armor without worries of overpenetration, and the caseless ammo means more rounds can be carried on a person.

EDIT: Uped the 5.56 to a 7.62 round

History recalls the benefits the HK G11 would have had on today's battlefield if it was implemented in the West German army. Remember, KISS. Keep it cheap too.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_G11,,00.html

Advise of lead GEM designer. Curiously, he is an automobile designer, odd how he knew of it.

That is a great article on the G11, but I need feedback on both of these designs.

OOC: Just quickly, with the ROF, wouldn't full auto be faster than burst? In burst you have it going 1-2-3, 1-2-3 with short intervals, as fast as the soldier can pull the trigger or whatever, there is a gap, but in fully auto you just keep your finger down and ot just keeps going, no intervals between the bursts, because there are no seperate bursts (if you see what i mean....)

Other than that, i can't be bothered to check on sizes etc, but a weapon that light sounds good, but the range could PROBABLY, in my opinion, be slightly longer, especially in the XM218. Kinetic energy rounds are designed to travel faster than normal rounds, that means they can fly further and faster, the emphasis on further here, but of course accuracy depends on the barrel length, and of hand i cant check on that.

Keep it up!

I'd go with another bigger/faster round, most nations have body armor that can withstand both of those rounds(although it would give the wearer nasty bruises), look at my assualt rifle(link in my sig) it fires a .45cal with a 7.62mm sabot, it should be able to kill even heavily armored enemy, you should re-think the ammo. other wise if I didn't already have my own weapons I'd buy yours.

blended metal ammo goes through body armor without haveing to worry about over penetration. About the ROF, look at that artical about the G11.

The designs themselves seem pretty solid. I like the continuation on the concept of high rate of fire burst shots. But the bullets don't have to be that heavy, they'll all land in roughly the same spot and devastate most armor they hit.

That is ture, but we're talking of NS here. Everyone has infantry that are similar to walking mini tanks.

I think that the Larger calibre gun would be cheaper than the smaller one and would be more for export.

If you want to get rid of enemy infantry, I'd suggest some sort of alt-fire shrapnel gernade. I'd say it's the only way to take out infantry wearing DP armor besides a headshot, which could snap an infantryman's neck. DP provides a lot of protection against small arms, but it's likely any plates would just fly off your chest if there was an explosion nearby.

If you want to get rid of enemy infantry, I'd suggest some sort of alt-fire shrapnel gernade. I'd say it's the only way to take out infantry wearing DP armor besides a headshot, which could snap an infantryman's neck. DP provides a lot of protection against small arms, but it's likely any plates would just fly off your chest if there was an explosion nearby.
I'd guess that an airburst flechette round should be enough, which I employ for both of my individual grenade launchers (one is 40mm while another is 25mm). However, you must keep in mind that nothing can replace the bullet out of a rifleman's gun, and that the armour ratings of many of the armour system here is a bit exaggerated IMO anyways (not only does such system would reduce your infantryman's mobility and load, but that doesn't mean that they'll be able to sustain 100 rounds as well without at least being knocked out due to the kinetic energy).

I would also tend to think that the radiation off of the DU would slowly kill their soldiers. DU in tanks is a problem, but in infantry armor. Any time it would be hit, DU dust would got up into the air, being inhaled by the wearer.

I'm designing and infantry system and the armor is based on vectran, ceramics, and composites. I mgiht reinforce it with titanium in some places, but that could get heavy.

Well, yeah, actually. A full DP armor system I guess would weight close to 80 lbs, at the lightest.

But bullets can't go around corners. A good airburst would take out anyone around a corner or under a windowsill.

*Edit - Depleted Uranium (Which is NOT DP) is SPENT uranium, just heavy lead. It isn't radioactive, those are other byproducts of reactions.

But bullets can't go around corners. A good airburst would take out anyone around a corner or under a windowsill.
...that doesn't matter, due to the fact that launched grenades generally has a curved trajectory anyways, though in the end it doesn't matter anything if you can't spot your target. However, if you choose to arm your infantry solely with automatic grenade launchers, then I'd guess that will do some more damage along with some quite predictable side effects. No bullet or launched grenade can replace or is in any way directly superior when compared to each other.

High velocity jacketed rounds are the order of the day to defeat body armour, the empire would be interested in buying your old weaponry from you to update our arsenals if you take this design on board.

You can't compare bullets and gernades, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Although an entire army of gernade launchers... sounds a bit like me playing Natural Selection... and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Friendly fire would be traumatic.

High velocity rounds are not be considered at the moment as recoil would be unreasonbly high. We are trying to be more innovative in ammunition and design than simply making the round go faster. (I'm a MT [present-2020] nation anyway, I want to keep it as realistic as possible)

Yes the empire's MT to, but guess what, HV rounds are modern technology. 5.56mm is a high velocity round, recoil isn't unreasonable, however, it may well be in larger rounds. Trust me.

Another test gun

Type: Proof of Concept AP Medium Machinegun
Name: XMG-40
Fire Modes: Full Automatic.
Round: 10.16 x 80 mm/.40 Caliber Armor Piercing
Barrel Length: 620mm (24.4")
Overall Length: 835mm (32.9")
Magazine Capacity: belt fed, unlimited
ROF:
-Full-Auto: 450 rounds/min
Muzzle Velocity: 1,100 m/s (3,519 ft/s)
Maximum Effective Range: 542.5m (1,780 ft)
Mass w/o Magazine: 12.5 kg (27.55 lbs)
Mass w/ Magazine: doesn't matter

Notes: Designed to repalce the M2HB as an medium machinegun, the XMG-40 fires a high velocity AP .40 round that is really just a smaller, slightly shortened .50 round. This allows a higher ROF, a lighter gun, and more carried ammo. It should be noted that the barrel on this gun doesn't need to be changed as often as on other larger machineguns thanks to the barrel being made out of Liquid Metal (http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/). This allows the barrel to actually stay pretty cool; even while it is being fired.

Type: Proof of Concept Battle Rifle
Name: XM259
Fire Modes: Semi-Automatic, 3 Round Burst, Full Automatic.
Calibre: 6.59 x 45 mm/.259 Caliber
Special: Caseless, Blended-Metal
Barrel Length: 540mm (21.25")
Overall Length: 740 mm (29.1")
Magazine Capacity: 45
ROF:
-Full-Auto: 570-620 rounds/min
-Burst: 2,000+ rounds/min
Muzzle Velocity: 930 m/s (2,975 ft/s)
Maximum Effective Range: 542.5 m (1,780 ft)
Mass w/o Magazine: 3.25 kg (6.71 lbs)
Mass w/ Magazine: 3.96 kg (8.1 lbs)

Notes: The second version of the XM30. The XM259 features a smaler, 6.59 x 45mm round with more pentration than the previous round, smaller, more compact design, longer barrel, and slightly heavier weight.

Type: Proof of Concept Personal Defense Weapon
Name: XMP-181
Fire Modes: Semi-Automatic, Full Automatic.
Calibre: 4.6 x 30mm/.181 Caliber
Special: Caseless, Blended-Metal
Barrel Length: 180mm (7.09")
Overall Length:
- Stock Closed: 370 mm (14.56")
Stock Open: 590 mm (23.23")
Magazine Capacity: 25, 45
ROF: 900 rounds/min
Muzzle Velocity: 743 m/s (2,378 ft/s)
Maximum Effective Range: 250 m (820 ft)
Mass w/o Magazine: 1.20 kg (2.64 lbs)
Mass w/ 25 round Magazine: 1.37 kg (3.01 lbs)
Mass w/ 45 round Magazine:[b] 1.54 kg (3.39 lbs)

[b]Notes: A PDW to be issued to troops instead of a pistol. It is only slightly larger than a standard pistol and actually looks like one. It's unique ammunition is very power within it's effective range and can penetrate nearly all body armor at that range. Due to it's blended metal properties, the small round shas quite a bit of stopping power.

Type: Proof of Concept light Machinegun
Name: XLMG-259
Fire Modes: Full Automatic.
Calibre: 6.59 x 45 mm/.259 Caliber
Special: Caseless, Blended-Metal
Barrel Length: 600mm (23.62")
Overall Length: 785 mm (30.9")
Magazine Capacity: 45, belt fed.
ROF:
-Full-Auto: 500 rounds/min
Muzzle Velocity: 1000 m/s (3,199 ft/s)
Maximum Effective Range: 600m (1,970 ft)
Mass w/o Magazine: 4.35 kg (8.90 lbs)
Mass w/ Magazine: 5.06 kg (10.35 lbs)

Notes: A squad-level MG, it shares the same ammo with the XM259 and can accept both XM259 magazines and belt feeds.

Do you realise that the bigger a round is, the slower it gets due to the weight it attains?

Larger rounds don't penetrate armour better, lol. Faster rounds do. The smaller the round the less weight it has, but then it can't go through as much due to its miniscule size, and its just stupid.

A pin doesn't do much damage even when it is travelling fast to someone's foot, a large and heavy stone doesn't travel very fast or far. A smaller stone travels further, faster, and will do just as much damage, with that range advantage...

NS doesn't have a clue really, its best to stick with REAL MT, it works, :D

When talking about velocity, you must also take into account the charge behind the bullet, and the length of the barrel. More charge means higher velocity, and more barrel length means more velocity. When you also take into account Blended Metal bullets you see that they realease all their energy when they hit a soft target. Blended Metal goes through armor but stops in the body.

Do you realise that the bigger a round is, the slower it gets due to the weight it attains?

Larger rounds don't penetrate armour better, lol. Faster rounds do. The smaller the round the less weight it has, but then it can't go through as much due to its miniscule size, and its just stupid.
Keep in mind though, armour penetration itself doesn't mean /that/ much unless it actually has the hitting power to at least stop your opponent. Yes, velocity does contribute to armour penetration, but that's all there is. Unless by damage you mean how well it will penetrate the armour.

NS doesn't have a clue really, its best to stick with REAL MT, it works, :D
I figure that it won't be too exciting if everyone's using the same types of product. Let's not get into the million variants of UBER Abrams and OMG IMPROVED Iowas too.

Keep in mind though, armour penetration itself doesn't mean /that/ much unless it actually has the hitting power to at least stop your opponent. Yes, velocity does contribute to armour penetration, but that's all there is. Unless by damage you mean how well it will penetrate the armour.

I figure that it won't be too exciting if everyone's using the same types of product. Let's not get into the million variants of UBER Abrams and OMG IMPROVED Iowas too.

OOC: Bah, reality whore! Anyway, stopping power and armour penetration would probably be defined best as Impulse, or change in momentum. Now a train moving at 50 mph will flatten you. A bullet, traveling at Mach 3 will kill you just the same. One has massive mass, the other has massive velocity. So a slightly larger bullet wouldn't be that bad, lets not forget other insane weapons real life nations have created. 14.5mm Machine guns, the .50 cal pistol, and a Mobile Artillery piece created by the Nazis that would have used the 800mm Dora gun, and the Christie flying tank design the Americans almost build during WWII.