NationStates Jolt Archive

The Conservative Union is preparing for WAR! Thousands of our conscripts are pouring out of our country to scour the globe for communist threats. Our policy: Communist Eradication. In the homeland, a campaign to root out the communists has led to the arrest of thousands of suspects. We would be delighted to send some of our elite Federal Gaurds to any nation wishing to eliminate the communist threat in their own countries. I pledge that any nations wishing to avoid communist takover has our support. Act now before the Red Threat over-run us all!

That is all.

The People's Republic pledges our support to this noble cause. Communism is a scourge on the face of this planet, and any attempt to save the peoples of the world from being enslaved beneath the yoke of Communist tyranny is to be welcomed.

OOC: just wondering if you actually understand the fundemental ideals of communism...and by communism i mean marxism not leninism or stalinism

Not that we have any communists in our nation, their removal was undertaken during the pre-reformation period of our history, but your 'war' on everything red is naive and will end in your death at the hands of the thousands of communist nations that are bigger and stronger than you. And whats more, I doubt you will earn the respect and aid of any strong right-wing nations. Total war on communism has been attempted by many, even the mighty RWC (of which our nation is a member) recognises that the extermination of a political idea is impossible. Retract your statement before someone retracts it for you.

-Jack Foley
President of the Republic of Intelligent Neighbors.

The oppressive tyranny of such communist states as the former Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and others, suggests that any form of communism will be bent and altered to the whims of a few elite. Any system that denies economic freedom, imposes a singal party system, or intrudes on the free-will of the people governed, is a threat to be dealt with. We in the Conservative Union believe whole-heartedly in pure democracy and hybrid capitalism. We believe that communism, if left unchecked, will pollute the masses with propoganda and vicous lies. Tyranny is the enemy of the people. Communism is the enemy of freedom loving people. We will do our best to serve a protect the intrests of sovreign nations under threat of communism. If that means assult by a more powerful nation, or coalition, so be it. We will not sacrifice our ideals and values because of threat of retaliation or destruction.

That is all.

OOC: just wondering if you actually understand the fundemental ideals of communism...and by communism i mean marxism not leninism or stalinism

No one has to work because... well someone has to work, but there's not really any motivation for doing so. Anyone who claims to have gotten it to work without Soviet Union-style mishaps is probably godmoding, and in fact I lean towards ignoring them as such.

I agree but why just apply this to people, get rid of all things red... down with the strawberry jam! viva la erication LOL...

-greshamam (UN)

The oppressive tyranny of such communist states as the former Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and others, suggests that any form of communism will be bent and altered to the whims of a few elite. Any system that denies economic freedom, imposes a singal party system, or intrudes on the free-will of the people governed, is a threat to be dealt with. We in the Conservative Union believe whole-heartedly in pure democracy and hybrid capitalism. We believe that communism, if left unchecked, will pollute the masses with propoganda and vicous lies. Tyranny is the enemy of the people. Communism is the enemy of freedom loving people. We will do our best to serve a protect the intrests of sovreign nations under threat of communism. If that means assult by a more powerful nation, or coalition, so be it. We will not sacrifice our ideals and values because of threat of retaliation or destruction.

That is all. "but is it really?..."

The oppressive tyranny of such communist states as the former Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and others, suggests that any form of communism will be bent and altered to the whims of a few elite.

That is all.

OOC: big generalisation, there matey, also a big claim to make.
also its the NS world not the RL

also, big nations, even in relativity, like me, outmass your entire population with thier army alone

OOC: just wondering if you actually understand the fundemental ideals of communism...and by communism i mean marxism not leninism or stalinism"No, i don't please explain?"

OOC: big generalisation, there matey, also a big claim to make.
also its the NS world not the RL but is he really your matey?

OOC: big generalisation, there matey, also a big claim to make.
also its the NS world not the RL

Yeah, but you can't really use any examples of Communists in NS cos they all godmod to make sure they have some kind utopian society that flies in the face of all that history has shown us. Hence you've got to use RL examples, cos at the end of the day Stalin et al didn't have the option of godmoding their way out of trouble.

OOC: big generalisation, there matey, also a big claim to make.
also its the NS world not the RL

Thats true. For a moment I got ahead of myself. Please disregard any statment that references the "real world". I would like to reiterate, however, that practical execution of communism requires an oppressive and brutal regime.

but is he really your matey?
no

I would advise against this course of action. Leave the communists to collapse under the weight of their own flawed idealism, and take advantage when they do. If you intend to fight all communism, you will encounter groups of nations with billions upon billions of troops to throw at you, far more than you could practically handle at present.

I have lived through all attempts at national communism, and will probably live through many more, and I can assure you that they do not require outside influence to fail miserably. Humans are incapable of creating a utopia -- they are inherently needy, and wholly destructive. Indeed, communism itself is driven by a form of greed, and as such is doomed to failure from the outset.

Simply sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.

Signed,

Molyneux

Prince Molyneux of the Toreador Clan

Molyneux has made a point I did not concider. I have consulted my cabinet and the legislature. We are making a slight change in our policy. From this point hence, we will provide money, troops, and other resources to forces that are combating communists. We will withdraw our conscipts from any nation that asks. We will, however, send soldiers into nations that wish to combat the Red Threat. I must also make a concession to the pacifists in my Dominion: Our forces will not engage enemies in foriegn lands, unless they engage us, or the ruling government of said country requests it.

That is all.

-snip-

You can't just say you are going into other nations and doing what you want. That is called Godmodding. You will have to properly RP them. no matter what.

Working under the assumption that, while not wholly expressed in this forum, there are nations which are partially occupied legally by an agreement of a right of passage, I can send troops into other nations. The term "Pouring into other nations" is simply a propoganda slogan, and does not neccessarily reflect the true nature of the movement of our troops. I fully understand your misconception. In any case, I'd like to clarify: Dominion Forces will not "occupy" any nation without consent, be it via this forum, or otherwise.

That is all.

ooc: Alright, I'm a modified communism in the FT. Yes, for me it 'works', but I do oppress my people quite a bit to make it so. Fortunately, they have come to like their rule and view themselves as having a better government than others. I don't think it is GM as it is quite possible for the vast majority of a population to enjoy the same ideals. Those who refuse to follow the laws are dealt with accordingly and the people think it just.

The Conservative Union is preparing for WAR! Thousands of our conscripts are pouring out of our country to scour the globe for communist threats. Our policy: Communist Eradication. In the homeland, a campaign to root out the communists has led to the arrest of thousands of suspects. We would be delighted to send some of our elite Federal Gaurds to any nation wishing to eliminate the communist threat in their own countries. I pledge that any nations wishing to avoid communist takover has our support. Act now before the Red Threat over-run us all!

That is all.

"We support the valiant nation of The Conservative Union and its noble efforts. You have our full, unwavering support."

--Reynaldo Salazar, Ministro de Diplomacia (Minister of Diplomacy)--

ooc: Alright, I'm a modified communism in the FT. Yes, for me it 'works', but I do oppress my people quite a bit to make it so. Fortunately, they have come to like their rule and view themselves as having a better government than others. I don't think it is GM as it is quite possible for the vast majority of a population to enjoy the same ideals. Those who refuse to follow the laws are dealt with accordingly and the people think it just.

Given your stated policy of oppression, which, as history shows, is undoubtedly a policy of murdering dissidents, suppressing critisim of your regime, and general methods of terror to keep in line the masses. If such policies exsist, as they seem to do, then would any person under your iron fist dare speak up to dissent? Would any be so bold as to reject your ideology under penelty of death? Or is it more likely that in order to survive, they have simply superficially excepted your 'ideals' and are too afraid to speak out? I wonder...perhaps if you held free and fair elections, with multiple parties and a variety of canidates...would you still be in power?

I'm a Socialist Nation with Communist Elements, am I targeted? If so, then do I have a ballistic tipped surprise for you. Thats right, LOVE! :)

Would those communist elements include repression? What is your policy on elections, democratic reform, and free speech? And this 'Love' thing you speak of...is there any chance of a trade agreement...I have a surplus of animosity and jingoistic nationalism up for grabs.

Would those communist elements include repression? What is your policy on elections, democratic reform, and free speech? And this 'Love' thing you speak of...is there any chance of a trade agreement...I have a surplus of animosity and jingoistic nationalism up for grabs.

Well the Hand of God Legion calls it repression, we call it representing everyone equally and not just the nutsy relgious right. We have a constitutional monarchy type thing going on. A senate that votes on laws, though a group of Senate elected advisors help High Father, the leader of the country, pass laws with more direct effects on the people. (IE. the Issues that show up every day). The Senate has relatively large power in the government. Though many industries are state-owned. Land is state-owned, though citizens engage in Capitalism freely. The reasoning is that we know best, which is why we are in charge. As for repression, well, those who carry out dangerous activities, i.e. protesting with the express purpose of assassination or crimes with similar levels, (blowing up buildings, etc.) are arrested and jailed. We don't believe int eh death penalty, people are instead frozen in cryosleep, woken up the in future, shown the wonders of the future, then sentenced to a lonely solidary cell for the rest of their natural life, never to experience the joy of the future. Dissenters are asked to "shut up" and are sent to seminars where they learn the positives, if they still don't want to change their minds, fine. I guess that is a bit repressive. What do you think, enough to declare war over? My military is streached at the moment.

Official Statement to the World and The Conservative Union from the long peaceful United Cuban Territories of Communist Rule, Foreign Relations Ministry:

The UCTCR has long remained a fastidious observer of the ideals and motives behind the political categorisation "Communism." Since this great nation's birth and through its rising, falling, and its decision to seek neutrality, the UCTCR's ideals have not been altered. Though many of our brothers in the past have lost faith in the way of Communism and Socialism, the UCTCR has maintained its virtues whilst reinventing its world policies to maintain a super power in this ever-changing world of despots and rogues. The UCTCR considers itself to be an excellent example of Communist and Socialist harmony without the drawbacks of the smaller Socialist republics of history's past. The UCTCR maintains a steady economy with both REAL and excellent political and social advantages. It is with a nation full of happy, committed citizens that the United Cuban Territories of Communist Rule says to the world and directly to The Conservative Union; You can not destroy a political belief, but you are welcome to attempt the destruction of a most deadly adversary fueld by the same political beliefs that you wish to destroy. We express grave concern over your promotion of Political Idealism Eradication.

As a nations taking the form of a Communist Republic we obviously feel that this is wrong on two levels, the first being that you are lumping several forms of government under one heading. As a Communist Republic all industry is government controlled and is owned by the government, however we hold periodic free elections where all government postitions are up for election. This form of communism is neither repressive not unpopular, as we have been deemed to have excellent civil rights (though that was just recent and I expect that after then next set of issues resolve to have superb civil rights). While we are only average in political freedoms this is mostly due to the heavy restrictions placed on candidates when it comes to accepting favors and limited media time.

The second issue is that this constitues a declaration of genocide, which I find disturbing and will stop you in any attempt to enforce this decree on any other nation. While it is not inherently undemocratic to support genocide I would like to think that nations calling themselves democracies have not slid to the point where they do support genocide.

What do you think, enough to declare war over?

Well, my position is this: as a democracy, a free and open society, I feel eternaly obligated to spread the glory of Freedom and Democracy across the globe. Communism represses the people's ability to choose, eliminates freedom of dissent, and (when not godmoding) installs fear into the heart of the people in order to maintain control. In addition, we believe in 'each according to his ability' not need. I think that war is necessary in cases where people are so unable to influence their government, economy, and society, that they are reduced to the status of human fodder, little more than assets of the state, to be dealt with as cattle. I have a duty to my fellow humans. I would be willing to commit the full resources of my small nation to the cause of freedom anywhere, even if it means war. But your nation sounds fair and just. I understand the need to restrict radicals, anarchists, and rebels, but there is a fine line. I will not presume such superiority as to critisize every little mishap or violation of certain freedoms. I wish no war on the people of Leafanistan.

The second issue is that this constitues a declaration of genocide, which I find disturbing and will stop you in any attempt to enforce this decree on any other nation. While it is not inherently undemocratic to support genocide I would like to think that nations calling themselves democracies have not slid to the point where they do support genocide.

I find it interesting that you would call it genocide. The word itself has a very terrible stigma, yet I would have to agree, as the actual definition of genocide includes "the systemic elimination" of a political group. However, what happens to your communist state if conservatives are elected? Can a conservative canidate even make it on the ballot? Can citizens speak out against the government if they wish? Can citizens choose to shed their communist system if they so choose? Is there a constition that gives certain basic human rights, or do you simply have a regime that is non-abusive? The fact remains that if the people can not control, their government, and at least have a say in the economy, how can freedom flourish? If freedom can not flourish, how can you indefinatly prevent the usurping of exsisting freedoms by the government. If you are pre-inclined to limit liberty, eventually, and inevitably, it will spiral into a dictatorship, that is historically proven...unless you are godmoding.

Press release from the President of the Republic of Tchygna (20040707/2329):

"Socialism in its many forms is inherently toxic to a free society. I strongly recommend not resorting to genocide to stop communism, but rather imitating the Tchygnese model. Our politicians must make an oath of office to uphold our constitution, in which many human rights are guaranteed, including private property, civilian armament, free speech, free exercise of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and the right to protest. Any legislative, executive, or judicial attempt to abridge any of these rights constitutes treason, and is punished accordingly. Communists are free to jointly purchase their own property and practice their way of life on a small scale in our Republic, we simply forbid them from imposing it on the rest of us by bending the government to their will. Tchygna is a free country, where liberty is so important that not even democracy is allowed to get in the way."

We equate communism to being the enemy of freedom. If we allow the enemy of freedom to infiltrate our Democracy, it will weaken the integrity of our system, making us more vunerable to overthrow, disitigration, or regression to despotism. My parliment has just passed legislation allowing mild socialist parties to operate, I believe that is the extent of acceptable socialist or communist activities. As for the actual people who are the communists, we will imprison the non-militant people, and attempt to re-educate them. We wish to eradicate the idea, not the people.

The Stalinist state of Borograd is prepared to take any action necessary to defend its territories against foreign aggression.

That is all.

pardon me, mr Conservative Union, but i believe i've stumbled upon a huge flaw in your thinking. you claim to be supporting the individual's right to choose a political party, but by eliminating communism you're narrowing their options. you claim to support the right of dissent, but in your own country you're murdering communist dissenters and rebels. you claim to support democracy, but you propose overthrowing democratically enstated communist governments and enforcing your own nation's ideals.

what the fuck?

The oppressive tyranny of such communist states as the former Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and others, suggests that any form of communism will be bent and altered to the whims of a few elite. Any system that denies economic freedom, imposes a singal party system, or intrudes on the free-will of the people governed, is a threat to be dealt with. We in the Conservative Union believe whole-heartedly in pure democracy and hybrid capitalism. We believe that communism, if left unchecked, will pollute the masses with propoganda and vicous lies. Tyranny is the enemy of the people. Communism is the enemy of freedom loving people. We will do our best to serve a protect the intrests of sovreign nations under threat of communism. If that means assult by a more powerful nation, or coalition, so be it. We will not sacrifice our ideals and values because of threat of retaliation or destruction.

That is all.

The oppressive tyranny of such capitalist states such as the United States and Great Britain, who have oppressed billions in their quest for empire, and control over the world's resources to benefit only the wealthy few, at the expense of everyone else suggests that any form of capitalism will be bent and altered to the whims of a few elite (witness the current Bush Administration, and the cronies who are feeding at the trough of the U.S. Treasury, like Halliburton (where'd 8 billion bucks go, boys??))

Any system that exploits workers and thus denies economic freedom to all but the uber-wealthy, imposes a single-party system by rigging and frauding elections (ever notice the ATM's made by Diebold provide a paper reciept...but the voting machines made by Diebold DON'T??) or intrudes on the free-will of the governed, by trying to impose a plutocracy, a kleptocracy, or a theocracy (such as what is happening now in the United States) is a threat to be dealt with.
We in the Socialist Queendom believe whole-heartedly in a Representative Parliament and a caring monarchy that cares for all her people. We also believe whole-heartedly in a very regulated form of socialism, in that we make sure all have enough to meet their basic survival needs, and there is no limit on what you can make above and beyond that...but you will NOT become wealthy at the expense of the poor worker's very survival!

We believe that capitalism, if left unchecked, will pollute the masses with propaganda and vicious lies. We further believe they will pollute the environment with no regard for anything other than their bottom-line profit...(who cares about those left with an environment that sucks, air that can't be breathed, water that cannot be drunk...who cares?) We further believe that capitalism, left unchecked will lead to robber-baronism, and the creation of a de-facto royal class, and a permanent serfdom of underclass citizens, who will forever bear the yoke of tyranny set on their shoulders by the elite uber-wealthy. We believe capitalism, left unchecked, will basically lead to a class of citizens being reduced to wage-slaves, with no free will anymore...these wage-slaves will be controlled merely by the threat of removing that by which they barely subsist...their wages...and thus will be controlled and dominated forever by those who "have." We believe further that there is no escape for those unfortunate enough to have not been born into that privileged class.

Such economic terrorism is the enemy of the people. Capitalism is the enemy of any fredom-loving people. Your freedom will be slowly leached away from you under any capitalist system, and you won't know it is happening until one day, you look up, and realize it is a fait accompli...and by that time, so much of your freedom will have been leached from ytou that you will be powerless to fight back. (PATRIOT ACT, anyone??)

We will do our best to serve and protect the interests of Socialist Monarchies such as ours, against the threat of uncheaked, heartless, cruel capitalism. We shall not force our way of life onto any nation that does not desire it, however we are willing to help any nation wishing to form such a society to take the steps necessary to get there...and we will vigorously defend any assaults on our soverign nation by the capitalist threat. Likewise, we will defend our friends and allies, our fellow Socialist Monarchies, from this threat.

We will not sacrifice our ideals and values because of the threat of unwelcome, unprovoked aggression by imperialistic nations bent on destroying the world and taking all the world's resources for their greedy selves. To the last man, we shall defend against any imperialistic capitalistic tyrannical threat launched against our peaceful nation. We shall never surrender.

That is all.

pardon me, mr Conservative Union, but i believe i've stumbled upon a huge flaw in your thinking. you claim to be supporting the individual's right to choose a political party, but by eliminating communism you're narrowing their options. you claim to support the right of dissent, but in your own country you're murdering communist dissenters and rebels. you claim to support democracy, but you propose overthrowing democratically enstated communist governments and enforcing your own nation's ideals.

what the fuck?

You are incorrect in that:

1. We are not killing any person simply for being a communist, only those militants and armed rebels who fight. Communists in general are put into interment camps and re-educated.

2. Communism, and democracy are incompatable. If you take true communism, and combine it free elections, free choice of political parties, and free speech, it will not stay in power. The extreme limit on personal and economic freedom imposed by a communist system is incompatable with the freedom and liberty necessary to sustain a Democracy. There is no such thing as a democraticly installed communist state, in REALITY!

3. We, as I just stated, are now allowing moderate socialist parties to operate. They will be closely monitered however. This still allows options in elections.

Mr. homovox, you are wrong on all counts.

You are incorrect in that:

1. We are not killing any person simply for being a communist, only those militants and armed rebels who fight. Communists in general are put into interment camps and re-educated.

2. Communism, and democracy are incompatable. If you take true communism, and combine it free elections, free choice of political parties, and free speech, it will not stay in power. The extreme limit on personal and economic freedom imposed by a communist system is incompatable with the freedom and liberty necessary to sustain a Democracy. There is no such thing as a democraticly installed communist state, in REALITY!

3. We, as I just stated, are now allowing moderate socialist parties to operate. They will be closely monitered however. This still allows options in elections.

Mr. homovox, you are wrong on all counts.


Umm..this statement is not entirely true. In a democracy a communist party and state can exist. Democracy itself is a form of communist government if you put it in such a tightly examined way. Depending on a the viewer one can be right or wrong by the different ideas behind it.

Example: China. A mix of capitalism and communism is effective and shows no sign of degrading.

A Lucas Periodical article excerpt from earlier today
--
Chancellor Lucas to Help 'End Communism'
--
"There shall be no red left standing" was Chancellor Lucas's opening statement at the press meeting held at The International Briefing Center (TIBC) in the center of Lentura City today. The Chancellor also noted "Any enemy of freedom shall fall". Public Relation Committee advised the Chancellor to not speak on the war to end communism, and Lucas had silently agreed to do so. At the very moment, however, is when the Chancellor was briefed on the current situation involving the execution of several diplomats from Lucasovakia in a Neo-Communist group in the South Pacific, saying to "Cleans the Democratic way by letting their blood run free into the ocean." The Chancellor made no comment about this issue. Instead, he made sure anyone wearing a red shirt and looked like Stalin was taken out back and executed...(SP)
--

In response to Lyric:

Capitalism in its self is a system based on the power of the individual to be able pull himself up, and with hard work, become succesful on his own iniative. FDR introduced socialist-like reforms to save capitalism, and he did. We in the Union beleive that the individual must be protected from unfair practices, but we will not give hand-outs. The entrepenurial spirit inherant in capitalism allows the ambitious to rise to the top. We do not consider wealthy and succesful people to be any better than anyone else. It will always be our goal to help every person to become succesful by his own initiative and hardwork. 'Uber-class', 'wage-slave', and other such slogans work only to pursuade poor and un-educated people to your side, as they are blinded by lies and promises of equality without any hardwork. No such system can be succesful. We in the Union are anti-monopoly, pro-workers rights, pro-union, anti-corruption, and anti-oppression. Our fight is to free people from the unjust yoke of communist tyranny, which inhibits people from being free, economically and politically. You may sit back and spew your baseless and decietful propoganda slogans, but we will work to free people from oppression and give them the libery inherent in Democracy and Capitalism.

THAT is all.

A Lucas Periodical article excerpt from earlier today
--
Chancellor Lucas to Help 'End Communism'
--
"There shall be no red left standing" was Chancellor Lucas's opening statement at the press meeting held at The International Briefing Center (TIBC) in the center of Lentura City today. The Chancellor also noted "Any enemy of freedom shall fall". Public Relation Committee advised the Chancellor to not speak on the war to end communism, and Lucas had silently agreed to do so. At the very moment, however, is when the Chancellor was briefed on the current situation involving the execution of several diplomats from Lucasovakia in a Neo-Communist group in the South Pacific, saying to "Cleans the Democratic way by letting their blood run free into the ocean." The Chancellor made no comment about this issue. Instead, he made sure anyone wearing a red shirt and looked like Stalin was taken out back and executed...(SP)
--


OOC: OK this is uncalled for really. A user who has 0 power and no known RP talent or anything KNOWN about the topic at hand decides the first post is to End Communism, thus hijacking a thread and distracting a key arguement by posting conflicting types of government and creating a hypocracy!

1. You cannot declare a war for OOC reasons or have the tie to it, there is nothing to have a reason for it. Its like declaring a war on everyone 30+ or who lives in a certain area! Governments may conflict, but the first thing is diplomacy and not WAR THIS and BITCH THAT or NUKE THIS!

2. You have nothing to fight a war with or any way to supply this. Unless you just magically pull an army out of your countries people with no training or research.

3. Your ending of communism infact CREATES the traits of a communist government!

Thats true. For a moment I got ahead of myself. Please disregard any statment that references the "real world". I would like to reiterate, however, that practical execution of communism requires an oppressive and brutal regime.



And for this thought, you are quite mistaken. The economic power of Crusader Knight pledges to finance communist collectivist countries with sufficient arms necessary to stop this minor annoyance. You fight against the worker, you die unremembered.

Umm..this statement is not entirely true. In a democracy a communist party and state can exist. Democracy itself is a form of communist government if you put it in such a tightly examined way. Depending on a the viewer one can be right or wrong by the different ideas behind it.

Example: China. A mix of capitalism and communism is effective and shows no sign of degrading.

China is working from being a hard-line communist state into a consumer driven economy. Communism can evolve into capitalism not visa-versa; if it had not began the transition, it would be a defunct and backward country like the former USSR. But Communism has never been, and never will be, implimented entirly through democracy. It always came to power by overthrow of another governemnt.

Lucasovakia is internationally known for its magicians. We can pull anything out of my hat. Didn't you do any back checking? What are you going to do? Virtually crush my nation?

Seriously, If you think I'm that stupid, disregard my messege completely. Doesn't take long to be mature.

In response to Lyric:

Capitalism in its self is a system based on the power of the individual to be able pull himself up, and with hard work, become succesful on his own iniative. FDR introduced socialist-like reforms to save capitalism, and he did. We in the Union beleive that the individual must be protected from unfair practices, but we will not give hand-outs. The entrepenurial spirit inherant in capitalism allows the ambitious to rise to the top. We do not consider wealthy and succesful people to be any better than anyone else. It will always be our goal to help every person to become succesful by his own initiative and hardwork. 'Uber-class', 'wage-slave', and other such slogans work only to pursuade poor and un-educated people to your side, as they are blinded by lies and promises of equality without any hardwork. No such system can be succesful. We in the Union are anti-monopoly, pro-workers rights, pro-union, anti-corruption, and anti-oppression. Our fight is to free people from the unjust yoke of communist tyranny, which inhibits people from being free, economically and politically. You may sit back and spew your baseless and decietful propoganda slogans, but we will work to free people from oppression and give them the libery inherent in Democracy and Capitalism.

THAT is all.


For such a post it seems like you didn't care to read the responses well. If you are in anti-monopoly then isn't that not a democracy or capitalism?

Preventing a company from growing because it is TOO successful with the power of the government is oppression.

So with this, you cannot be the anti-oppressive government you claim to support.

Now for caring on people regardless of class is a communist trait, all people are treated the same. A 3rd class citizen would recieve the same effort and care as a middle class or 2nd class citizen. While in the government you support, this would be impossible, because a leader or successful person would recieve different aid! Now this is also true for communism and is something you cannot change.

I think i will stop at these few reasons, until you read it..

In response to Lyric:

Capitalism in its self is a system based on the power of the individual to be able pull himself up, and with hard work, become succesful on his own iniative. FDR introduced socialist-like reforms to save capitalism, and he did. We in the Union beleive that the individual must be protected from unfair practices, but we will not give hand-outs. The entrepenurial spirit inherant in capitalism allows the ambitious to rise to the top. We do not consider wealthy and succesful people to be any better than anyone else. It will always be our goal to help every person to become succesful by his own initiative and hardwork. 'Uber-class', 'wage-slave', and other such slogans work only to pursuade poor and un-educated people to your side, as they are blinded by lies and promises of equality without any hardwork. No such system can be succesful. We in the Union are anti-monopoly, pro-workers rights, pro-union, anti-corruption, and anti-oppression. Our fight is to free people from the unjust yoke of communist tyranny, which inhibits people from being free, economically and politically. You may sit back and spew your baseless and decietful propoganda slogans, but we will work to free people from oppression and give them the libery inherent in Democracy and Capitalism.

THAT is all.


You're a damn fool to think you can stop one of the most powerful forces on this planet. Do you know how many leftist governments exist in this world? Far too many to count. In the tens of thousands. Stop playing games, you'll get nuked by a mod, or a few leftists.

Lucasovakia is internationally known for its magicians. We can pull anything out of my hat. Didn't you do any back checking? What are you going to do? Virtually crush my nation?

Seriously, If you think I'm that stupid, disregard my messege completely. Doesn't take long to be mature.

For a nation of 5 mil with an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy, and below average policitical freedoms that sure says something. There is no factbook or history posted, as I see this is your 2nd post. In 47 minutes as a nation you demand the same right and power as a nation who has 5 bil people and has posted for many years? Its not going to happen, many nations have 'puppets' and they choose to use them to support an arguement or number game whenever it is in their best interests.

Also...about your power, you'll recieve the IGNORE alot if you try to do nukes before your first month or poorly research it. I had nukes by my 20th day, but at the cost of everything I had. Then I disabled them all, no one wins a Nuclear War. So an IC war would be pointless as one of my superior ships could rip apart your whole nation if I tried. Everyone has nukes, but no one uses them. Everyone has an army, but rarely choose to fight. Its safe to say 99% of all diplomatic problems do not lead to a massive war and conquest of a nation. Only when they purposefully try to START a war do they really get it.

A few cases of 20th century aggression is known, but NS is more evolved in which many nations would attack an aggressor, and thus conquest would be useless unless the rest of the NS world hated them.

Released from the Community of Bela Telax's Joint-Ruling Committee on Foreign Affairs-

"In response to the declaration of eradication of communists by The Conservative Union, the Community of Bela Telax will maintain its neutral status towards all other countries; however, if war does result from the actions of The Conservative Union, Bela Telax is prepaired to offer humanitarian aid to all those attacked and invaded by The Conservative Union and its allies. Furthermore, the people of Bela Telax wish to have their disapproval towards this action stressed to utmost importance.
That is all for today.

------To Better the People!-------"

Umm..this statement is not entirely true. In a democracy a communist party and state can exist. Democracy itself is a form of communist government if you put it in such a tightly examined way. Depending on a the viewer one can be right or wrong by the different ideas behind it.

Example: China. A mix of capitalism and communism is effective and shows no sign of degrading.

I haven't read through all this, and I also don't know whether or not you know any of what I'm about to say already. In any case, I'm just going to say it.

China's got a Communist government, and has introduced some "Market Economy" style into it's once tightly run, state controlled economy. There isn't much of a "mix" of the two ideas in any sense.

Communist Government, capitalist-like economy. Not a mix of Communist and captialist economic styles.

Dear Tanthan,
You are completely right. After discussing this matter with my cabinet, we have decided to back down on all quotations made, do some checkin' out, and brutally whip the media mis-informining our country and humiliating us in front of other country leaders. Thank you for your time.

I haven't read through all this, and I also don't know whether or not you know any of what I'm about to say already. In any case, I'm just going to say it.

China's got a Communist government, and has introduced some "Market Economy" style into it's once tightly run, state controlled economy. There isn't much of a "mix" of the two ideas in any sense.

Communist Government, capitalist-like economy. Not a mix of Communist and captialist economic styles.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't stating that, but yes that is correct. I was referring to his arguement of Capitalism and Communism are capable of working together in some aspect.

Dear Tanthan,
You are completely right. After discussing this matter with my cabinet, we have decided to back down on all quotations made, do some checkin' out, and brutally whip the media mis-informining our country and humiliating us in front of other country leaders. Thank you for your time.

(OOC: Other than the whipping, I support your actions!

Good for you.

@ Tanthan:

Oh, and I read what you just said, and good for you as well.)

Dear Tanthan,
You are completely right. After discussing this matter with my cabinet, we have decided to back down on all quotations made, do some checkin' out, and brutally whip the media mis-informining our country and humiliating us in front of other country leaders. Thank you for your time.

Eh..no problem, media is very biased and makes fools and over blows everything so severely that you cannot rely on it.

Look into several books that aided me for this discussion:

The Soviet System in Crisis by Dallin and Lapidus
Soviet Constitutional Crisis by Robert Sharlet

Two older books, but loaded with information and foretell the break-up of the Soviet Union under Communism.

(OOC: Other than the whipping, I support your actions!

Good for you.

@ Tanthan:

Oh, and I read what you just said, and good for you as well.)

We'd so be allies if we ran countries, or the world! Create a nice system without the problems that some of the leader ego's have. The failure of democracy and communism sparked me to abandon the two and rebuild a government from the original idea actually.

BTW: Paranoia Agent is on CN now.

We'd so be allies if we ran countries, or the world! Create a nice system without the problems that some of the leader ego's have. The failure of democracy and communism sparked me to abandon the two and rebuild a government from the original idea actually.

BTW: Paranoia Agent is on CN now.

(OOC: Bleh, I'm watching Stargate SG-1 right now.

More shooting. ;) :P

As for the government thing, I've also got a rather unique system, and eh...about running nations, and being allies...Our militaries would probably be sick from all the war games we'd hold. Which gives me an idea actually...)

(OOC: Bleh, I'm watching Stargate SG-1 right now.

More shooting. ;) :P

As for the government thing, I've also got a rather unique system, and eh...about running nations, and being allies...Our militaries would probably be sick from all the war games we'd hold. Which gives me an idea actually...)

Yes, our troops would have the Roman type of mindset, the wargames themselves varying between governmental problems could be so varied and so intense that no nation would have experience to even touch the elite soldiers. Compared to veteran units, ones that have lived their whole lives in an intense wargame and planning that goes so intense and so far beyond anything else they could encounter would make a real war almost a laughable excursion into a compartively friendly environment!

Such things like the Cold War, and other scenarios between governmental policies and reactions could simulate a real showdown.
--------------
Change is a good thing, why do so many countries continue to keep this communism and democracy thing going? Both governments are HUGELY flawed and don't work the way they are envisioned to. Why should our government system be over two hundred years old while our technology and global system demands only the newest and freshest ideas!? Shouldn't such ideas that are relatively anicent be discarded the same was as a feudal system of government and monarchy?

Yes, our troops would have the Roman type of mindset, the wargames themselves varying between governmental problems could be so varied and so intense that no nation would have experience to even touch the elite soldiers. Compared to veteran units, ones that have lived their whole lives in an intense wargame and planning that goes so intense and so far beyond anything else they could encounter would make a real war almost a laughable excursion into a compartively friendly environment!

Such things like the Cold War, and other scenarios between governmental policies and reactions could simulate a real showdown.
--------------
Change is a good thing, why do so many countries continue to keep this communism and democracy thing going? Both governments are HUGELY flawed and don't work the way they are envisioned to. Why should our government system be over two hundred years old while our technology and global system demands only the newest and freshest ideas!? Shouldn't such ideas that are relatively anicent be discarded the same was as a feudal system of government and monarchy?

Woah, woah, woah.

Before you start criticizing anyone's government, especially the USA's I'd like to see you have a few books on government and running nations published first. I'm sorry, but you just don't have the credentials to start shooting off suggestions like that.

Thank goodness they're only your opinions.

Woah, woah, woah.

Before you start criticizing anyone's government, especially the USA's I'd like to see you have a few books on government and running nations published first. I'm sorry, but you just don't have the credentials to start shooting off suggestions like that.

Thank goodness they're only your opinions.

Such opinions come from the USA's poor history of money management. Government operations and people within the government that have scarred the otherwise good ideas.

Any nation with a national debt measured in the trillions is a weakness that is only grows ever worse as time presses on. While several presidents have reduced this and created a hugely successful economy, but still governmental misuse and cover-ups are not exactly my kind of 'good' government.

I don't want to hijack the thread with my idealistic governmental system anymore though. x-x

You are incorrect in that:

1. We are not killing any person simply for being a communist, only those militants and armed rebels who fight. Communists in general are put into interment camps and re-educated.

2. Communism, and democracy are incompatable. If you take true communism, and combine it free elections, free choice of political parties, and free speech, it will not stay in power. The extreme limit on personal and economic freedom imposed by a communist system is incompatable with the freedom and liberty necessary to sustain a Democracy. There is no such thing as a democraticly installed communist state, in REALITY!

3. We, as I just stated, are now allowing moderate socialist parties to operate. They will be closely monitered however. This still allows options in elections.

Mr. homovox, you are wrong on all counts.


i'm fairly certain that putting people who disagree with you in concentration camps and brainwashing them counts as suppressing dissidents.

democracy doesn't necessarily mean the rigged elections you're used to. the purest expression of the voice of the people is in popular revolution, which is the only way communism has ever come about.

banning radical marxist parties and closely monitoring moderate socialists is inherently oppressive and limits the voter's options.

The Federal Socialist Republic of Compuq is shocked that a supposed democratic country is 'eradicating' anyone group. I assure you that Communism with a strong economy and democracy is alive and well in our country and the people would'nt have it any other way. As long as the populous is happy with the elected governments decisions there is nothing that should be done.

What you should be fighting is Stalinism, Maoism, Fascism etc...True Communism, Marxism,Troskyism(sp?) are great free,democratic systems and should be encouraged. Even Leninism( with proper governmental limits in place) can give the people relitieve freedom.

It is with deep regret and remorse that I must inform the public that for my part, the war against communism is over. The Conservative Union is simply too small and too out-numbered to be succesful in any campaign against the tyranical communists. This desision is reached with a majority vote of parliment, and a referendum by the people, place public support for the war at 44%. We will discontinue active foriegn aggression against the communists effective of the posting of this thread.

HOWEVER, I reiterate my disgust and disdain for the communist scourge, and perhaps someday in the future, I will be able to take up arms against the enemies of Freedom.

Decreed as such by the Emperor of the Dominion of the Conservative Union, whose powers are justly derived from the consent of the people.

The Conservative Union is preparing for WAR! Thousands of our conscripts are pouring out of our country to scour the globe for communist threats. Our policy: Communist Eradication. In the homeland, a campaign to root out the communists has led to the arrest of thousands of suspects. We would be delighted to send some of our elite Federal Gaurds to any nation wishing to eliminate the communist threat in their own countries. I pledge that any nations wishing to avoid communist takover has our support. Act now before the Red Threat over-run us all!

That is all.

Emir Alex II sent a video message to TSU while in bed with a lingerine model. He gave the bird and ended transmission.

2. Communism, and democracy are incompatable. If you take true communism, and combine it free elections, free choice of political parties, and free speech, it will not stay in power. The extreme limit on personal and economic freedom imposed by a communist system is incompatable with the freedom and liberty necessary to sustain a Democracy. There is no such thing as a democraticly installed communist state, in REALITY!


OOC:As my friends know, I rarely get involved in this type of RP. However, I must dispute that claim. The country I am currently in (India) has both a communist party (which is in control of half the country) and a very democratic government. While I do not have the time to provee my claim, I urge you to research a bit more before making false generalizations.

Point, get over the freaking godmod, its a lie and you know it. All nations with a 100% tax rate are automatically communisms since the government owns everything since every dollar goes back to the government. If you're too stupid to realize that an excellent civil rights level means that my people do have the civil rights they want means that you're not paying attention to the game. If NS says that you have a system of elections and the government is not oppressing the people, especially if you allow radio stations to broadcast anti-government propaganda, then your communism works.

Go argue with Max Barry if you don't like the way NS does issues but don't complain about a working communism being a godmod when it works on Nationstates.

Sorry, I just got tired of the BS about godmodding a successful Communistic Republic.

OOC:
Sigh, the naivety of NS sickens me, epescially when I hear "Communist government and Capitalist economy".

What you mean is Fascism; state regulated corporatism. BTW, there is no government in Communism, as Marx said, Socialism is a the transitional stage torwards Communism. Communism has no government or taxes; or even a state, so get it out of your head, come on people....

So, please, before you post about Communism, please, I beg you, READ about Marxism first so you don't make any moronic mistakes, PLEASE.

In response to Lyric:

Capitalism in its self is a system based on the power of the individual to be able pull himself up, and with hard work, become succesful on his own iniative. FDR introduced socialist-like reforms to save capitalism, and he did. We in the Union beleive that the individual must be protected from unfair practices, but we will not give hand-outs. The entrepenurial spirit inherant in capitalism allows the ambitious to rise to the top. We do not consider wealthy and succesful people to be any better than anyone else. It will always be our goal to help every person to become succesful by his own initiative and hardwork. 'Uber-class', 'wage-slave', and other such slogans work only to pursuade poor and un-educated people to your side, as they are blinded by lies and promises of equality without any hardwork. No such system can be succesful. We in the Union are anti-monopoly, pro-workers rights, pro-union, anti-corruption, and anti-oppression. Our fight is to free people from the unjust yoke of communist tyranny, which inhibits people from being free, economically and politically. You may sit back and spew your baseless and decietful propoganda slogans, but we will work to free people from oppression and give them the libery inherent in Democracy and Capitalism.

THAT is all.


You didn't READ. As usual, people from your side never do. I said UNCHECKED Capitalism is a threat to freedom-loving people everywhere.

When one is allowed to become uber-wealthy by taking advantage of those less fortunate...and are allowed to pay such sub-standard wages that the worker has to work two and three jobs just to survive...there is something wrong with the system.

We believe all able-bodied people of sound mind SHOULD work. We believe that anyone willing to work 40 hours per week should not have trouble raising their families on what they make.

We believe that basic survival necessities should be able to be achieved on what one can earn doing a normal job.

No one should want for enough food, clothing, heat in winter, decent shelter, adequate medical/dental care, transportation, medicine...things needed for survival.

Yet, in our relatively unchecked capitalism run rampant here in America, we commonly hear about families having to choose between heat and food in the winter...having to choose between food and a visit to the doctor's office...we hear of seniors who cut their pills in half because they cannot afford the medicines they need for survival...and it makes me SICK to think that some asshole is making uber-bucks, to the point that he and five generations of his family will NEVER have to work to survive, while someone else exists right on the edge of the abyss, and many get cast into that abyss.

One stroke of bad luck should not result in one no longer being able to SURVIVE.

What I believe in is a form of Socialism practiced in enlightened countries such as Sweden. Notice that Socialism and Communism are NOT the same thing. We say that the sky is the limit, if you have the drive, the gumption, and the smarts to get ahead...more power to you! But you do NOT do it by impoverishing others to the point where their very survival is in jeopardy.

It is with deep regret and remorse that I must inform the public that for my part, the war against communism is over. The Conservative Union is simply too small and too out-numbered to be succesful in any campaign against the tyranical communists. This desision is reached with a majority vote of parliment, and a referendum by the people, place public support for the war at 44%. We will discontinue active foriegn aggression against the communists effective of the posting of this thread.

HOWEVER, I reiterate my disgust and disdain for the communist scourge, and perhaps someday in the future, I will be able to take up arms against the enemies of Freedom.

Decreed as such by the Emperor of the Dominion of the Conservative Union, whose powers are justly derived from the consent of the people.

We in the Socialist Queendom wish to denounce The Conservative Union for it's stated goal of unprovoked aggression against nations that have an economic/political system that The conservative Union doesn't like. We donounce any activity that calls for unprovoked aggression against a peaceful, soverign nation.

While The Socialist Queendom acknowledges the right of The Conservative Union to feel as it does, we do not acknowledge their right to ACT on those feelings against soverign nations that choose a different economic/political structure. Especially when those soverign nations do nothing, militarily, to The Conservative Union.

We further state that WE reiterate our disgust and contempt and disdain for the imperialistic capitalist scourge, that impoverishes many to the benefit of the wealthy few.

We shall maintain a vigilant watch, and we do consider The conservative Union to be a potential threat in the future. We shall never fire the first shot, but we WILL stand ready to defend our shores against bloodthirsty capitalist imperialist pigs.

I am absolutly disgusted by your lack of knowlege of the capitalist system. I will admit that I have learned a thing or two about communism. In reality, the American system is designed so that everyone has the equal oppurtunity to get ahead. DO NOT give me this bullshit about uber-wealthy and such. I know a hell of lot better than you what the fuck poverty is, and I know for FACT, that capitalism promotes equality for anyone working hard enough. I lived and breathed this system for most of my childhood, and saw what it takes to survive - 60 hour work weeks, part-time jobs, and saving every penny. This is not unfair, its simply the role of the dice. If I blamed the rich for everything wrong in my life, I would live a miserable, hateful life, and I would ultimatly believe that I was owed something.

Furthermore, you obviously have NO concept of how our system actually works. I know for a FACT that there is food, medical, and financial aid programs for anyone living in poverty in this country. There is assistance for childcare, paying your bills, and even to help manage money. THIS is our system, and it is hybrid capitalism. There are people who will exploit any system for their own benefit. Weather it is capitalism, socialsim, or communism, THERE WILL BE EXPLOITERS. I feel damn privileged to live in this country, I wouldn't trade it for the 'enlightened' socialism ever.

I am absolutly disgusted by your lack of knowlege of the capitalist system. I will admit that I have learned a thing or two about communism. In reality, the American system is designed so that everyone has the equal oppurtunity to get ahead. DO NOT give me this bullshit about uber-wealthy and such. I know a hell of lot better than you what the fuck poverty is, and I know for FACT, that capitalism promotes equality for anyone working hard enough. I lived and breathed this system for most of my childhood, and saw what it takes to survive - 60 hour work weeks, part-time jobs, and saving every penny. This is not unfair, its simply the role of the dice. If I blamed the rich for everything wrong in my life, I would live a miserable, hateful life, and I would ultimatly believe that I was owed something.

Furthermore, you obviously have NO concept of how our system actually works. I know for a FACT that there is food, medical, and financial aid programs for anyone living in poverty in this country. There is assistance for childcare, paying your bills, and even to help manage money. THIS is our system, and it is hybrid capitalism. There are people who will exploit any system for their own benefit. Weather it is capitalism, socialsim, or communism, THERE WILL BE EXPLOITERS. I feel damn privileged to live in this country, I wouldn't trade it for the 'enlightened' socialism ever.


Good for you. I hope you enjoy living in the fascist regime that Bush and Company are fast implementing in this country.

I'm sick and fucking tired of our rotten, lousy economy. i have been 18 motnhs now without a decent job, and not for lack of trying or lack of desire. IT IS LACK OF OPPORTUNITY.

Because of this, I had to put my tail between my legs and move back home with Mommy at the age of 34, making me feel like a complete, total, utter failure at life. And it's all thanks to George W. Bush and his fucking up of our economy.

Obviously...YOU have a decent job and things are going okay for you...or you'd feel a lot more like I do. Let's see you go 18 months un and under-employed and see you not come out the other end very bitter and cynical, and hating of our cyrrent system.

Let's see YOU have the system beat you to a pulp and flush you down the toilet, and see if you don't come out a little soggy on the other end, okay, bucko?

The Communist dictatorship is prepared for war with the nation, but, before its armiments are prepared, wished to know why you carry such an unbridled hatred for the "good path" of communism.
Obviously you are unaware of the good communism has done in China, Russia, easten Europe, Korea and especially Cuba.

***OFFICIAL PROCLIMATION***
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/shazbotdom.jpg
From: The Office of the Emporer
To: The Dominion of The Conservative Union

We feel that you are forcing your views onto other nations. This falls as immoral in the eyes of the people of the Holy Empire. We also feel that you are a strict Captalist nation. The Holy Empire's population of 1.63 billion tend to view other, more capitalist countries as somewhat immoral and corrupt. Are you corrupt? Do you oppress your people like most capitalist nations do? I feel it is YOU that should rethink your way of government. Any attack on a Communist nation will be considered a direct threat upon all Captialist and Socialist nations, including the Holy Empire, and is a direct act of war against The Holy Empire of Shazbotdom.

The Holy Empire's Marine Corps (http://thenetwork.95mb.com/Shazbotdom/marinecorps.htm), Marine Corps Special Forces (http://thenetwork.95mb.com/Shazbotdom/weapons.htm), Marine Corps SCS Special Forces (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=427289), and Marine Corps Air Division (http://thenetwork.95mb.com/Shazbotdom/marineair.htm) are put on standby.

We hope you rethink your declaration of war.

***Transmission Ended***

I disagree with the whole idea of being forced to associate with anyone, including the government. Telling someone to do something for 'their own good' is an insult to intelligence.

***OFFICIAL PROCLIMATION***
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/shazbotdom.jpg
From: The Office of the Emporer
To: The Dominion of The Conservative Union

We feel that you are forcing your views onto other nations. This falls as immoral in the eyes of the people of the Holy Empire. We also feel that you are a strict Captalist nation. The Holy Empire's population of 1.63 billion tend to view other, more capitalist countries as somewhat immoral and corrupt. Are you corrupt? Do you oppress your people like most capitalist nations do? I feel it is YOU that should rethink your way of government. Any attack on a Communist nation will be considered a direct threat upon all Captialist and Socialist nations, including the Holy Empire, and is a direct act of war against The Holy Empire of Shazbotdom.

We hope you rethink your declaration of war.


That was the most generic declaration of unrest and denoucing I have ever seen on NS...Did you just fill the name in o.o? You know, blanks where you just add the names on!? o.o?

That was the most generic declaration of unrest and denoucing I have ever seen on NS...Did you just fill the name in o.o? You know, blanks where you just add the names on!? o.o?

OOC:
I use that form for my declarations all the time. No one has bitched before. So don't start trying to flamebait me.

ooc: I know I haven't posted on this thread in a while but in response to Given your stated policy of oppression, which, as history shows, is undoubtedly a policy of murdering dissidents, suppressing criticism of your regime, and general methods of terror to keep in line the masses. If such policies exist, as they seem to do, then would any person under your iron fist dare speak up to dissent? Would any be so bold as to reject your ideology under penalty of death? Or is it more likely that in order to survive, they have simply superficially accepted your 'ideals' and are too afraid to speak out? I wonder...perhaps if you held free and fair elections, with multiple parties and a variety of candidates...would you still be in power?
No, we do not enforce the death penalty or torture for those things. Our punishment system is similar to Hammerabi's 'an eye for an eye'. If you kill, you die. We remain control over our citizens by giving them the illusion of choice. They are all willing to live under my government, they may leave at any time they choose, but do not. Our officials in the High Council are elected; they then appoint lesser persons to their jobs. As I have created what I think to be a utopian society, I would love to live in it above any nation in the real world today. My people may do as they wish civilly as long as it doesn't harm others or come at the cost of the whole. As long as you help society, the government will ensure that you live equal to all others, including our leaders.