NationStates Jolt Archive

Krieg’s guide to losing

Admit it, we all don’t like losing and even if you do, I’m sure you’re not adverse to winning. It’s human nature, we all like winning in something or another, it isn’t your fault, if you want to blame someone, blame nature. However, this competitive instinct is the result of evolution, the idea that we need to be faster than the next guy to catch our food was relevant perhaps two thousand years ago but not now, now, we work in communities. And finally, after my irrelevant rambling, we begin to make sense.

Winning is not relevant in role-play.

It can be, if you find it entertaining or if you get a rush from the excitement of you and another role-player going head-to-head, you may not have to read this guide but it would be a good help if you did. There are a lot of pluses from losing that one does not necessarily gain from winning, while the victor in a war RP gets the “material” gain, the loser gets the RP gain.

1.) – Losing earns respect

People will take note of you if you actually lose once in a while, it takes guts to lose, far more guts than it takes to win. It shows you're above your ego and it shows to other people that if they RP with you, they won’t have to worry about you going apeshit and owning them in a bloody display of wankage.

People will actually want to RP with you because they know you aren’t so caught up in winning, that you are actually quite fun and easy to role-play with.

I know this from experience.

I simply will not RP with nations that put competitive instinct before good writing and role-play, if you can combine the three, then that’s great but for me, only the latter two actually mean anything. I’m quite sure others will share my opinion on this point as well.

2.) – The possibilities of losing

When you lose a war (in this case an invasion), you can do a whole lot of things with your nation. You could change regime if you’d like, you could role-play as a protectorate of the nation that conquered you, you could role-play a resistance. You could role-play a whole manner of things. However, the role-play that you want to do, is your choice, not the invader. It’s your choice if you want to role-play a resistance, it’s your choice if you want to change regime, it’s your choice if you want to become a puppet of the invader.

No, it isn’t the invaders right to dictate what goes on in your country, while you have a de facto obligation to have a puppet government, you could easily have it as corrupt and pro-rebellion. What goes down in your nation is just that, it’s your nation, your choice!

So, you have all this potential RP and guess who gets to pull the strings and make things happen: you. Not the invader, it’s the loser that gets to pick what happens next.

3.) – No one or thing is perfect; embrace imperfection

Flaws are what define, make and break characters and even nations, a poor, unstable country with a communist dictatorship running the show via fists of AK armed troopers marching the streets, occasionally putting down the rebels in the jungle is far more interesting to read about than a generic rich nation with no flaws whatsoever.

Same goes for armies, I role-play in an offsite forum, World at War (http://modernwarstudies.net/worldatwar/index.php) as Luxembourg and in that nation, I have an army of extremely pompous soldiers, well armed and trained but wearing bright, royal clothing. This is the twenty-first century, and yes, my army is going to get kicked in when they engage an enemy that uses camouflage and aims to get the job done, when my guys are only bothered with looking rich and important when pictures are taken of them. But who says that they aren’t a joy to role-play with?

In Nationstates, as you may be aware, I role-play Kriegorgrad as an Orwellian state, with its army made up of the Proletarian Guard, these guys, once more, are well trained but aren’t as well equipped, in fact, they’re equipped with what most nations regard as scrap metal. They are equipped with world-war-two British weaponry, the Enfield is the main weapon of choice. Once more, these lads will get their arses handed to them on a platter by whoever they go up against but who says that makes for bad RP?

The vices make up an army, they give it a flavour! When people think of the Proletarian Guard, I hope they think of emaciated troopers propped up by the lies and propaganda that the state perpetuates. When people think of the Royal Guardsmen, they think of stuck-up nobles and pampered young men rather than gritty, hard core warriors. While they are well trained, they are still the kind of characters that drink tea with pinky out.

Even characters are more interesting when flawed, one character in my Collective Oligarchy is named Mustapha Krin, he is a weedy, pale man with dark red lips who is constantly at political war with Henry (unknown surname as of yet!), who is broad featured and dark skinned. They are polar opposites, Mustapha with his quick parrot talk and Henry with his slow but well thought out speech: Mustapha gets trumped every time. While not particularly important, it’s nice to see someone lose, as you instinctively go for the underdog.

People like characters with flaws, not just some bullet-impervious uber soldier.

4.) – You’re nearly there, now you just need to lose that first battle!

As ridiculous as it sounds, it is actually remarkably fun. I role-played a war with Hogsweat quite some time ago, it was called Blood and Mud (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393477&page=1&pp=15) if you can recall it. In that RP, I had ineptly equipped Proletarian Guardsmen, fuelled only by state sponsored propaganda charging over five hundred yards of muddy hell, getting gunned down in droves by Hogsweatian machine guns and having my aging Centurion battle tanks blown asunder by Israeli Merkava tanks, crewed by the well trained Hogsweatians. I got trumped, when eventually my men got into close quarter combat, things faired little better, my grimy destitute soldiers were mowed down by efficient Hogsweatian trench emplacements and kill zones. My tanks were still having the hell blown out of them, off-zone support, the artillery guns has been long since disabled, napalm annihilating more than half of the guns in one fell swoop from well trained Hogsweatian aircraft. The Kriegos aircraft were blown apart but are still struggling to hold on for dear life. However, this doesn’t stop them getting plucked out of the sky by Hog’s merciless anti-aircraft fire and superior aircraft.

And just to let you know, this role-play was perhaps one of the most amusing and fun role-plays I’ve ever had the pleasure of taken part in, while I got soundly beaten, it was great fun writing about my poor men getting beaten about like there’s no tomorrow. If you don’t believe me, try it yourself, describing your men’s grizzly fates and the echo of fear that resounds for the poor soldier’s comrades is an interesting subject to write about.

People love to hear about others suffering, so why not give the public what it wants? I know, that when I read a role-play, I don’t want to hear about some person gloating in-character or out-of-character about how amazingly uber-tastic his soldiers or technology are. If you have some soldiers with flaws and vices, you have a whole myriad of potential role-play paths, whereas if you have soldiers with no flaws and the best technology money can buy, you can’t go anyway, really.


5.) Yes, it’s come to an end

This is the part where I say goodbye and I have to leave you to ponder your own ideas on losing. I hope you gained something from this guide and enjoyed reading it as much I enjoyed writing it (which I actually did, I’m a bit hyper on tea-induced-caffeine). When offered with an opportunity to role-play a war or other conflict, think to yourself: What would happen if I lost?

In a few ways, losing is more of a victory than winning is, you have the upper hand in choosing what to do next in many cases and you are the one who can dictate what will happen. Accepting a loss, while perhaps against human nature, is a sure fire signal that we’ve evolved beyond our ancient competitive instincts and into a truly communal animal that focuses on the greater good rather than personal advancement.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t win, certain role-plays demand you win but I’m saying that feel free to lose as well, people don’t think any less of you for it, if fact, a lot of them think higher of you. If I were to have an RP with Iuthia, I’d be happy to have my arse handed to me on a platter because it would be done well and not in an intimidating offence of acronyms and SIX-156-MG2 mach 15 armour penetrating missiles.

In the future, remember: It’s good to lose.

(Added a few bits here and there, and took out a few sentences to encourage people to lose. Only thing that's necessary is for people to accept a loss, rather than wanting to lose.) ~ Euroslavia

(To be honest, I'd prefer it if you didn't do that, as that wasn't the point of my thread. I enjoy losing. Period.) ~ Krieg

EDIT: Made the post how I wanted it to be initially, rather than the rot Euroslavia added in, which more or less diluted the entire meaning of the post. Hope you lot found it useful, take it easy.

Wow, that's pretty good. Scratch pretty good, I was telling some friends about it, that means I raise it to really good.

*salutes*
Nicely done there Kreig. Indeed, I find losing kinda fun actually :p
Never forget, RPing is not about winners or losers, its about writing the best possible story. If you can make people want to read a Rp of yours, its a bigger success than nuking the hell out of someone could ever be.

Thanks, it's nice to see kindred spirits!

Wow, beautiful guide. And oh so true too. I haven't RPed on Nationstates but have in other places as an army and other things, and yes losing can be fun. Winning is often just sending some massive amounts of napalm and waiting for the destruction. As the losing side you get to create that mayhem and enjoy it, thus becoming more immersed in the story than the winner. Anyways, beautiful guide, bookmarking this one.

I agree with what A-C-M said.

This ought to be added to the sticky list.

Wow, beautiful guide. And oh so true too. I haven't RPed on Nationstates but have in other places as an army and other things, and yes losing can be fun. Winning is often just sending some massive amounts of napalm and waiting for the destruction. As the losing side you get to create that mayhem and enjoy it, thus becoming more immersed in the story than the winner. Anyways, beautiful guide, bookmarking this one.

I agree with what ACM said.

Thanks, that's exactly what I tried to portray: when you're the victim, you create the mayhem! I might add that part into the guide soon Entracountry, thanks for that.

America-Canada-Mexico, thanks but I think this would probably go into the "stick-that-has-all-the-other-stickies" if it was deemed worthy by the hierarchs of NS.

Very nicely written. However, the entire character of my Empire revolves around an excellent military. However, this will change soon enough. I'm going to role play the death of my Emperor, the emergence of his grandson as Emperor [and he's going to have a life full of victories], and then the sudden downfall and move into civil war..but this begins in September and won't end until the next year

Nonetheless, very well written and very inciteful.

Very nicely written. However, the entire character of my Empire revolves around an excellent military. However, this will change soon enough. I'm going to role play the death of my Emperor, the emergence of his grandson as Emperor [and he's going to have a life full of victories], and then the sudden downfall and move into civil war..but this begins in September and won't end until the next year

Nonetheless, very well written and very inciteful.

Thanks Maca, having an excellent military is all well and good but that doesn't stop say, five hundred of your men getting pinned down in a town behind enemy lines, and then swamped by conscripts? Look at Vietnam's hamburger hill! Also, I can't wait for the death of the Emperor and the civil war, it's something I wouldn't mind being a part of, if's that alright with you.

I will say, I battled Haverton, a larger and more powerful nation than myself (although I have since made gains) we had the Danmarc Royal Navy vs. the Havertonian armada, and we pretty much beat the tar out of each other. Playing an accurate heavy injury battle was great experience, and both sides seemed to keep it pretty fair... We have since signed a truce, and keep an unsteady peace for the moment...

Danmarc, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you just said, two people beating the snot out of one another is a great thing that should never be forgotten, however, it does get dull when neither side is willing to compromise and if the RPers aren't experienced enough, it can degenerate into "I shot you", "no you didn't" ect. ect.

What you did, was actually a very clever thing: you both got to describe the mayhem!

America-Canada-Mexico, thanks but I think this would probably go into the "stick-that-has-all-the-other-stickies" if it was deemed worthy by the hierarchs of NS.[/size]

Oh, sorry if I mislead you, that was what I meant. This should be good reading for all RPers.

Don't be sorry, I was just telling you in case you didn't know! But most importantly, I'm glad you like the guide!

Kick-ass, Krieg, very-very-very nice. Awesome work. Now to all those who suddenly want to lose, contact me, I'll gladly help you in your endeavours, hehehehehe. No, I'm just kidding. It actually brings back memories from the 'War on Sino' and the repeated times my navy got its ass handed to them, it was sad describing the utter destruction of an entire fleet, but I liked it. Believe it or not, the times I've lost I've liked it more than when I've won, just a funner RP experience in my mind [well, not in all cases].

Soviet Bloc, it's nice to see someone, who, with your tech, could be a really mean...person and own everybody, acknowledge this guide! I'm glad that it got through to the crowd I wanted it to: the NS hardasses!

Turetel, thanks for the promotion, this stuff really does mean quite a bit to me!

What else is there to say? Very nice.

...Now if only I got involved in enough wars to lose in...

Thanks for the compliment Kyanges, I'll gladly have a war with you sometime, if you want my MSN or AIM, I'll T/G you them, in fact, I'll do that now.

Thanks for the compliment Kyanges, I'll gladly have a war with you sometime, if you want my MSN or AIM, I'll T/G you them, in fact, I'll do that now.

You're welcome. Hmmm, your MT right? Would you be ok RPing against an FT nation? Just curious as I know there are quite a few MT nations who just hate that idea... If you are ok with that, then it would definately make for some interesting RPs.

You're welcome. Hmmm, your MT right? Would you be ok RPing against an FT nation? Just curious as I know there are quite a few MT nations who just hate that idea... If you are ok with that, then it would definately make for some interesting RPs.

We're getting off topic now, so we'll communicate via telegram, MSN or AIM after this. I'm an MT nation and I wouldn't like to RP against you as Kriegorgrad. However, I'm currently in an RP with Chronosia who is a brilliant future tech role-play and I'm developing a character in his nation that could mean I would be able to commandeer a small chunk of a Chronosian fleet if he allows it.

We're getting off topic now, so we'll communicate via telegram, MSN or AIM after this. I'm an MT nation and I wouldn't like to RP against you as Kriegorgrad. However, I'm currently in an RP with Chronosia who is a brilliant future tech role-play and I'm developing a character in his nation that could mean I would be able to commandeer a small chunk of a Chronosian fleet if he allows it.

Understood.

[bump]

[OOC- TAG for an excellent and well written post. That losing bit is truely an aid to roleplay. It'll soon happen against Khrrck.....spoke a bit too far.

As for my military, it's a lovely thing with training and equipment, but its hierarchy is abysmally large and ponderously slow. Sure, the troops will do serious damage when they get there, but getting the triplicate orders and the required Forms 2XZ through 4AB is one hell of a challenge.....]

That's great Sam, it's nice to see that some nations realise than interesting army is a flawed army - organisation is one of the best ways to incorporate a flaw.

I'll look forward to seeing you lose against Khrrck! ;)

I agree completely ^_^ I had a shitty military before but that changed.. remember it can be fun having a superpowerful and efficient military - but only if you rp it properly and not have more numbers than text.. and generally there should be one side predominant in tactics + equipment etc..I think that was what was so good about Blood + Mud.

Agree totally... I keep an exceptionally well-trained/equipped infantry, the problem is, to protect a nation of 3 billion civvies, there's only 396,000 of them, so they can't really prosecute a war, or suffer many casualties. (especially when 1/3 never fight at "optimum" readiness.)

Great post.

Of course Hogsweat, a super-powerful military can be interesting when pressed into impossible situations, I'll go back once more to the Americans at Hamburger hill: America is the world superpower, it's military is tearing up the world with the East living in fear of the almighty Americans until they went to Vietnam to halt the communist menace...then after skipping some butchered Americans laying mangled in traps, we come to Hamburger hill. A military outpost, kitted out with trenches and fortifications or something to that effect, it's walls/dugouts manned by the best soldiers in the world: and they got swamped by a bunch of pissed off communist farmers in a bad mood.

It proved that even a superpower can be beaten by a tinpot army with comparatively shoddy weapons. Bottom line is, so long as your super-army loses on occasion, there is nothing wrong with it. Jordaxia, same goes for you but you've already included a weakness: numbers. The Kriegos Proletarian guard outnumbers your own at least fifty times in quantity, if not in quality, so you've already added a very welcome flaw.

Nicely done. Good job.

I agree with the sentiments above. Perhaps people could *technically* have uber everything, but it adds something to the RP if you don't have everything uber. I've been RPing my army as being inexperienced and poorly-trained, partly in response to the times I've had people surrender just as I've landed troops.

I've given myself an Achilles heel of a poor army and a tiny air force and tried to compensate for it with an outstanding navy. That is going to give me an opportunity to RP reforms to my army to help it try to catch up with a navy that has consistently outstripped the army in terms of quality and in budget appropriations.

Like Sarz, only I have a tiny navy. Next to none really.

(also, sign onto MSN Sarz, got stuff to discuss)

Winning is not relevant in role-play.


I've been saying that for nearly two years now. It's good to see others saying it, and even better to see others praising someone for saying it.

Like Sarz, only I have a tiny navy. Next to none really.

(also, sign onto MSN Sarz, got stuff to discuss)I'm at work, sadly. Check TGs, though...

I'm at work, sadly. Check TGs, though...
I replied five minutes ago. Just keep the TG window open so that we don't clog up Kreigs thread.

Krieg, you didn't include my favorite option for losing, the last desperate stand, followed by exile and an attempt to regain trhe homeland, that makes for some of the best RP, especially if the last stand is played well, along with the recovery attempt, I've never had to do it but I've got a couple of guys for character RPs that are based on guys trying to recover "home", so it's good stuff all around.

Nicely done. Good job.
Thanks, I'm glad there are people in the usually rather competitive forums who share the views I have.

I agree with the sentiments above. Perhaps people could *technically* have uber everything, but it adds something to the role-play if you don't have everything uber. I've been role-playing my army as being inexperienced and poorly-trained, partly in response to the times I've had people surrender just as I've landed troops.

I've given myself an Achilles heel of a poor army and a tiny air force and tried to compensate for it with an outstanding navy. That is going to give me an opportunity to RP reforms to my army to help it try to catch up with a navy that has consistently outstripped the army in terms of quality and in budget appropriations.

Kudos on the army of inexperienced and rubbish trained soldiers, to have green men is absolutely great fun, getting to describe the terror of the battlefield through someone who has never seen one before, it's a brilliant opportunity to get your creative juices flowing. An elite navy would be the compensation that people need to justify to themselves about having a green army, such can be found in my Ordos Fedor. However, I like the chance to role-play rivalry between the wealthy navy and the poor old footsloggers.

Like Sarz, only I have a tiny navy. Next to none really.

(also, sign onto MSN Sarz, got stuff to discuss)

Read above but kind of change it so it works for you! :)

I've been saying that for nearly two years now. It's good to see others saying it, and even better to see others praising someone for saying it.

That really quite surprised me, I placed you among the hard-ass elites of NS, simply with your amazingly arrogant in-character attitude (nice one on that), however, it is nice to see someone appreciates my (and your own) viewpoint. Ever since I cast off the shackles of true newbishness, I've tried to stress that we need to role-play as a community and be friendly, not get angry at one another for sinking their prize battleship or whatnot!

Krieg, you didn't include my favorite option for losing, the last desperate stand, followed by exile and an attempt to regain trhe homeland, that makes for some of the best RP, especially if the last stand is played well, along with the recovery attempt, I've never had to do it but I've got a couple of guys for character RPs that are based on guys trying to recover "home", so it's good stuff all around.

That is always a good way to go, I did include it but not as you may have wanted it, I referred to it when talking about SWEAT (Small, well trained and equipped) armies, and I used Hamburger Hill (nasty battle in the Vietnam war) as an example of it. I intend to do a last stand sometime in the near future, however...

Mm this guide is great. I personally don't like winning everytime. Then it just makes it ho-hum

"Oh I'm going to war again....thats no fun"

I need another good RP before I go insane with these ones that stop dead because the creator went on vacation or something.

Next thread:How to leave a war if you are going on a RL vacation or will be gone for an extended period of time

*contemplates*

Mm this guide is great. I personally don't like winning everytime. Then it just makes it ho-hum

"Oh I'm going to war again....thats no fun"

I need another good RP before I go insane with these ones that stop dead because the creator went on vacation or something.

Next thread:How to leave a war if you are going on a RL vacation or will be gone for an extended period of time

*contemplates*

If you aren't devoted to winning, you're already half way there! I personally find it just as fun to lose as it is to win, the former outweighs the latter in measure of funness on most occasions. Good role-plays, are sadly hard to find., it's even worse when a good role-play is killed by inactivity!

~Tag~

I like the guide, very good - in the Axacal thread, I'm planning a nice defeat piece, where some of my troops get surrounded - complete with creating scratch companies from clerks and cooks etc, and ending with a nice last-stand battle.

I like the guide, very good - in the Axacal thread, I'm planning a nice defeat piece, where some of my troops get surrounded - complete with creating scratch companies from clerks and cooks etc, and ending with a nice last-stand battle.

Sounds cool Skinny, I hope to have my own Proletarian Guardsmen butchered by the "fascist dogs" of Allanea and GPE, should be a fun RP, if I don't say so myself!

El Caudillo, consider your TAG under watch by COMSEC.

That really quite surprised me, I placed you among the hard-ass elites of NS, simply with your amazingly arrogant in-character attitude (nice one on that), however, it is nice to see someone appreciates my (and your own) viewpoint. Ever since I cast off the shackles of true newbishness, I've tried to stress that we need to role-play as a community and be friendly, not get angry at one another for sinking their prize battleship or whatnot!



People keep saying that, I have to continually remind people that IC statements and opinions do not reflect OOC attitudes. I have 'lost' my fair share of engagements, I have had a couple of my prize battleships (Fluffywuffy sunk one particularly well a while back) sunk and I certainly have no issue in agreeing with someone when they are right.

Your guide to 'losing' was just about spot on. In quotes of course simply because 'winning' and 'losing' are only secondary to plot and story when you are RPing. Losing presents just as many, if not more avenues for quality RP.

People keep saying that, I have to continually remind people that IC statements and opinions do not reflect OOC attitudes. I have 'lost' my fair share of engagements, I have had a couple of my prize battleships (Fluffywuffy sunk one particularly well a while back) sunk and I certainly have no issue in agreeing with someone when they are right.

Your guide to 'losing' was just about spot on. In quotes of course simply because 'winning' and 'losing' are only secondary to plot and story when you are RPing. Losing presents just as many, if not more avenues for quality RP.

I rarely confuse IC and OOC, I simply got the whole feel that you were of the hardass group who find kicking people's arses great fun, but thankfully I now realise you aren't! People do need to realise that winning and losing is secondary to story and tertiary to quality, alot of Nationstates seems to agrees with our viewpoint, however, there will always be those who's goal it is to win and win only.

Poor blighters!

I like the guide, very good - in the Axacal thread, I'm planning a nice defeat piece, where some of my troops get surrounded - complete with creating scratch companies from clerks and cooks etc, and ending with a nice last-stand battle.


Been there, done that, I even conscripted the officwers band and the logistics personnel at the front, they were cut off, what were they gonna do, deliver supplies through the enemy lines(about a mile from my base to my guys)?

fantasic job! now everyone will lose all the time and the world will be mine!

fantasic job! now everyone will lose all the time and the world will be mine!

Ahem, Concermo, I seem to remember one of my weaker slivers nearly handing your Spec-ops guy his head on a plate, so even in losing I'll ream you out in a most unpleasant manner.

I'm glad that it got through to the crowd I wanted it to: the NS hardasses!


The NS hardasses? :p

Very nice guide Krieg (if I can call you that :) ), it's very informative. I haven't been involved in a serious war in quite a long time, and I haven't exactly had the opportunity to have war against a nation of my size, but that's another story.


Let's get a few more opinions from other people out there as to if we should add it to the International Incidents Consolidation Sticky.

The NS hardasses? :p

Very nice guide Krieg (if I can call you that :) ), it's very informative. I haven't been involved in a serious war in quite a long time, and I haven't exactly had the opportunity to have war against a nation of my size, but that's another story.


Let's get a few more opinions from other people out there as to if we should add it to the International Incidents Consolidation Sticky.


Do it, or I'll atttack you with a swarm of cute little children!!!!!(I'll do it too, don't think I won't, and worst of all I'll get Timmy, Power Gamer on you, just wait till he gets his leviathan...)

I would definitely support adding this to the Consolidation Sticky. I'll go add it to my Emporium of Helpful Threads.

Been there, done that, I even conscripted the officwers band and the logistics personnel at the front, they were cut off, what were they gonna do, deliver supplies through the enemy lines(about a mile from my base to my guys)?

Good heavens, have I started a craze that involves gloating about your military defeats rather than your victories! :p

fantasic job! now everyone will lose all the time and the world will be mine!

Tsk, tsk...everyone knows that losers actually win, so we win everything and because you won, you lose everyone, makes sense, no?

The NS hardasses? :p

Very nice guide Krieg (if I can call you that :) ), it's very informative. I haven't been involved in a serious war in quite a long time, and I haven't exactly had the opportunity to have war against a nation of my size, but that's another story.


Let's get a few more opinions from other people out there as to if we should add it to the International Incidents Consolidation Sticky.


Aye, the NS hardasses, the sick bastards that take pleasure in inspiring fear where-ever they tread, good examples of the NS hardasses can be found in Pantera, Guffingford and to a lesser extent, AMF, who we all know is a big cuddly toy deep down! ;)

By the way Euroslavia, it's a shame you haven't been in a major war, what is horrid in real life is an absolute joy to role-play out, all the explosions, the blood, the death, the mayhem and the crying of the widows at home: it all puts a big grin on my face!

I'll have to say I'm very grateful that you're considering this for the International Incidenents Consolidation Sticky, rather that saying "I never thought it would get this far" or some other, equally cheesy thing you find at the Oscars, I'll just leave it at "thanks", if that's okay.

Euro, feel free to call me Krieg and if you ever fancy a war, you could always give me a ring.

Do it, or I'll atttack you with a swarm of cute little children!!!!!(I'll do it too, don't think I won't, and worst of all I'll get Timmy, Power Gamer on you, just wait till he gets his leviathan...)

Thanks I think, crazy little swarm of children ready to do my bidding, awaiting my beck and call - I like the sound of that.

I would definitely support adding this to the Consolidation Sticky. I'll go add it to my Emporium of Helpful Threads.

Thanks Sarz (I can call you Sarz, right?), I'm dead-chuffed (ye olde English speak for "pleased with") that this is going to be added to your all encompassing and undoubtedly evil "Emporium of Helpful Threads".

I brag about any good fight, and it was a good fight, it made Cold harbor and Camerone look nice and pleasant.

It's nice to see a defeat as triumphed as a victory Mini Miehm!

Thanks Sarz (I can call you Sarz, right?), I'm dead-chuffed (ye olde English speak for "pleased with") that this is going to be added to your all encompassing and undoubtedly evil "Emporium of Helpful Threads".You sure may call me Sarz. :) Seems to be a rather popular nickname for me around these parts.

Actually, I understood the meaning of "dead-chuffed" even before your gracious explanation. You'd be surprised how much British English I've picked up over the years. ;)

You sure may call me Sarz. :) Seems to be a rather popular nickname for me around these parts.

Actually, I understood the meaning of "dead-chuffed" even before your gracious explanation. You'd be surprised how much British English I've picked up over the years. ;)


AAAHHHHHHHHHHH!! LIMEYS, RUN FOR YOUR BLEEDIN LIVES MATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

AAAHHHHHHHHHHH!! LIMEYS, RUN FOR YOUR BLEEDIN LIVES MATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:Wonder what he's on about? ;)

You sure may call me Sarz. :) Seems to be a rather popular nickname for me around these parts.

Actually, I understood the meaning of "dead-chuffed" even before your gracious explanation. You'd be surprised how much British English I've picked up over the years. ;)

Well then "Sarz", I'm glad it's a popular title as it suits ye.

It nice to see someone actually took the time to learn our beautiful and subtle language, the pinnacle of all things great, it be! :)

AAAHHHHHHHHHHH!! LIMEYS, RUN FOR YOUR BLEEDIN LIVES MATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Jesus Christ, do you want owning by a Brit with an Enfield?

You should get Euroslavia to incorporate this into the sticky at the top of II.

Jesus Christ, do you want owning by a Brit with an Enfield?


If the Brit can beat my army then I'll happily accept my loss, but if he can beat my Zerg\Terran\Protoss Dominion then he's using one kickass enfield.

Undubedubly effective.

Notice how I am not using 'nice' like most people....it's because of stuff....

I've actually organized a losing RP - The Despair of Wolfish - and am having a great time with it. I'm looking forward to the re-build of my nation one all the bloodshed is over.

It's a very freeing experience to plan to lose.

Nice thread.

W.

I have a knack for losing. I just get so caught up and then realize i'm so horribly screwed. So then I loose.

Of course, I let a few nukes fly after a desperate speech. My country has been glassed 4 times, and each time it turned into a barren wasteland with multiple factions vying for power, and then one faction winning and becoming the head of t3h State.

You should get Euroslavia to incorporate this into the sticky at the top of II.

Thanks, only a few more net-signatures and this will be attached to the official sticky, as well as Sarzonia's de facto but equally 1337 "sticky"!

If the Brit can beat my army then I'll happily accept my loss, but if he can beat my Zerg\Terran\Protoss Dominion then he's using one kickass enfield.

The Enfield isn't particularly kickass, it'js just that all Enfields kickass!

I've actually organized a losing RP - The Despair of Wolfish - and am having a great time with it. I'm looking forward to the re-build of my nation one all the bloodshed is over.

It's a very freeing experience to plan to lose.

Nice thread.

W.

I definitely concur, losing is like a weight being lifted from your shoulders, the burden of not having to lose is lifted and you're free to write and role-play rather than be all caught up in the competitive element of it. Thanks for noting Wolf.

I have a knack for losing. I just get so caught up and then realize i'm so horribly screwed. So then I loose.

Of course, I let a few nukes fly after a desperate speech. My country has been glassed 4 times, and each time it turned into a barren wasteland with multiple factions vying for power, and then one faction winning and becoming the head of t3h State.

"A knack for losing"? Nice going, by the way, nice series of events TLS, but how did you manage to get your nation glassed four times, that must be a record! Good cycle of life when it comes to your nation's political life style!

No, the .577 T.Rex is kickass, an enfield is a bb gun compared to that.

I love this. It's great advice I've learned from prior RPs (outside of NS), and makes a great and informative read for someone who has just joined. Please give this the sticky treatment.

I'm currently involved in the build up to an RP I organized between Azazia and myself, and one which I actually hope to (and will) lose. I, like Wolfish, am overjoyed with the prospect of having a great RP, the end of which can lead my nation in an entirely different direction than anticipated. With endless possibilities and an obligingly mighty-yet-respectable nation, this will likely be my best RP thus far.

I have 'lost' my fair share of engagements, I have had a couple of my prize battleships (Fluffywuffy sunk one particularly well a while back) sunk and I certainly have no issue in agreeing with someone when they are right.

Although this is a little late, you did open a can of whoop-ass in that battle and surround me, I think. And that defeat opened up many fun oportunities, like a new government.

It did? You still did quite good in that battle, I recall that casualties were high on both sides, you just had a rough position caught between Edolia's Titan guns and my fleet.

I thought your Emperor was still in charge? I've hardly kept up, I did post in your Habu missle thread.

Undubedubly effective.

Notice how I am not using 'nice' like most people....it's because of stuff....

I see, thanks for the compliment however!

No, the .577 T.Rex is kickass, an enfield is a bb gun compared to that.

This isn't a thread on guns, I'm not bothered if a ".577 T.Rex" is "kickass", please take that stuff elsewhere.

I love this. It's great advice I've learned from prior RPs (outside of NS), and makes a great and informative read for someone who has just joined. Please give this the sticky treatment.

I'm currently involved in the build up to an RP I organized between Azazia and myself, and one which I actually hope to (and will) lose. I, like Wolfish, am overjoyed with the prospect of having a great RP, the end of which can lead my nation in an entirely different direction than anticipated. With endless possibilities and an obligingly mighty-yet-respectable nation, this will likely be my best RP thus far.

That's absolutely brilliant, if you knew this stuff beforehand from other RP, it makes my pseudo job that bit easier! Great roleplay is often given by the loser, as they are the ones who can craft the mayhem, the death throes of their soldiers, the last screams and the shower of artillery throwing men about as if they were ragdolls!

I look forward to seeing where Noikov goes next!

It did? You still did quite good in that battle, I recall that casualties were high on both sides, you just had a rough position caught between Edolia's Titan guns and my fleet.

I thought your Emperor was still in charge? I've hardly kept up, I did post in your Habu missle thread.

The Empire fell soon after the battle and was replaced with the Confederacy. Eventually neo-Imperialist terrorists killed off the government and the Second Empire was formed by the ironically named Protector of the Confederacy.

As for the battle, I thought I did terribly, though it was a long time ago. I probably could've done better had I had the time (exams, I seem to recall), but it was fun nonetheless. Maybe we can have a round two sometime :sniper:.

Yeah, you and Allanea are just lucky I'm not in Haven anymore ;)

I had no idea that your government changed after that battle, but then again there was a lot going on what with invading armies in Haven and so on.

Excellent Post.

Now, I need to find a war to lose...

I see, thanks for the compliment however!


What's up with the freaky small font? You're gonna give someone an eye straining.

What's up with the freaky small font? You're gonna give someone an eye straining.

I've been quoting him with every post just top read it, I just didn't want to be the first to complain.

Excellent Post.

Now, I need to find a war to lose...

Hehe, good luck finding a merry conflict, great fun wars can be!

What's up with the freaky small font? You're gonna give someone an eye straining.

Don't like it; don't read it.

Edit: Same goes for you Mini Miehm.

Hehe, good luck finding a merry conflict, great fun wars can be!



Don't like it; don't read it.

Edit: Same goes for you Mini Miehm.


Have pity on those of us with poor eyesight, please?

Sorry, I'm actually waging a secret war on anyone who has ungood eyesight, it's part of my secret plot. However, if you do have difficulty reading my posts and you want to read them, try holding down "control" and using the mouse button to zoom in and out.

Sorry, I'm actually waging a secret war on anyone who has ungood eyesight, it's part of my secret plot. However, if you do have difficulty reading my posts and you want to read them, try holding down "control" and using the mouse button to zoom in and out.

I forgot I could do that, thanks for reminding me.

You're welcome Mini.

Finally a good guide to losing, this is sure to be a sticky soon. *gives Krieg an infinite stack of hats*

Thank you Leafanistan, I sure hope this makes the grand sticky.

P.S Thanks for the hats

Very good, since there's always a losing side in a war. I'd be swell if it earns a sticky although I think it'll probably be dumped in Euroslavia's list. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but for new players Euro's sticky is a "tl;dr" case. It kinda undoes the work put in.

[shameless recruitment effort]

What shocks me is the lack of interest in beating me up in this thread:

ooc: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=421855

ic: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=422111


[/shameless recruitment effort]

Thanks for noting Guff; another of the hardasses I tried to appeal to.

And Wolfish, I can't belive you aren't getting beaten down, appeal to the other members of the thread and ask them to make you lose well. :)

Thanks for noting Guff; another of the hardasses I tried to appeal to.

And Wolfish, I can't belive you aren't getting beaten down, appeal to the other members of the thread and ask them to make you lose well. :)

The key is to keep it realistic - the trouble is that I'm over 4.5 billion - and on home soil defending a nation.

That means the combined population of an realistically sized invasion force should be somewhere around double my own (to generate and sustain the needed military force).

I need the "bad guys" to have about another 3 billion added.

All you need to do is RP some critical losses, on the fault of your generals or your men, it's up to you.

I think a BUMP is in order for those involved in the ViZion situation at the moment.

Suggestions and comments are still welcome*.

*unless they're bad comments, if they are: I'll cry ;)

Krieg, if you sign on AIM, im me (at anytime). I need to talk to you about this thread, and for some reason, clicking on your AIM symbol isn't working for me. Obviously, my AIM is Euroslavia.


~The Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Nationstates Forum Moderator~

Temporarily Sticking this thread, to see how it does. Edited a few controversial parts, and added a few more things that weren't touched on.

Let's keep the discussion about this thread going, along with possible additions to it.


~The Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Nationstates Forum Moderator~

This thread makes an excellent sticky, in my opinion. Good job Krieg.

This thread makes an excellent sticky, in my opinion. Good job Krieg.

I'm really glad you read it, I was worried it might be a bit too long but it's nice to see this didn't discourage you.

Temporarily Sticking this thread, to see how it does. Edited a few controversial parts, and added a few more things that weren't touched on.

We can discuss it further on AIM but one of the main reasons that I wrote this thread was to make people want to lose, it should be just as acceptable as winning as it would offer just as many - if not more - options for RP, as I said, we'll debate it on AIM.

Krieg, if you sign on AIM, im me (at anytime). I need to talk to you about this thread, and for some reason, clicking on your AIM symbol isn't working for me. Obviously, my AIM is Euroslavia.


~The Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Nationstates Forum Moderator~

Woops, sorry! I've been out quite alot lately, I'll message you as soon as our time-zones/free-time overlaps, that okay?

Great initial post, I can only hope some n00bs read it and take it to heart. A year ago (more or less) when I was just a newbie (but not a n00b) I had my first major battle and "allowed" NicolastheGreek to wipe out much of my navy in a battle off the coast of Eurslavia and then gave up even more to get my POW's back. I learned a lot and gained some respect from other players. Sarzonia now actively markets one of my inventions and my king married his ambassador to my nation.

Yes, losing is about respect and discipline, and in RP, "winning" is secondary, it's about the story and the characters - you "win" in RP by gaining respect and by having other players say "awesome freaking post man! good job, I enjoyed reading that;" not by nuking your opponent's forces into oblivion.

Great initial post, I can only hope some n00bs read it and take it to heart. A year ago (more or less) when I was just a newbie (but not a n00b) I had my first major battle and "allowed" NicolastheGreek to wipe out much of my navy in a battle off the coast of Eurslavia and then gave up even more to get my POW's back. [snip]

That is perhaps what I was trying to convey, I'm glad someone was able to put it in less words than the hefty guide I've written! Your post deserves a better response than this but I must be off to write up deploying Proletarian Guardsmen to the front!

Bump because this is important and it pwns.

Excellent writing, Kreig. I know how its like to RP with people who don't like to lose. A nation with 9 million (I had like 200 mil) and an economy that was imploded (mine's was good) was sending waves and waves of F-22s and Merkavas that would match my army in number. I still RPed with that nation, and it still didn't accept getting pushed back any more than a few kilometers.

Thanks Questers, and I know the feeling. I can do Nationstates without the cock-fencing, if that's alright. :) Losing is fun, in my opinion, you get to describe the fire and blood, the description is yours, all the other guy gets to do is press the button that sets it all off.

Of course, I don't mind winning now and again, but my Nationstates experience would be a lot different (for the worse) if I won everything.

Also, I'll be posting for you soon. Maybe tommorow! I'm also meant tob e doing a post for GMC and my Africa RP but i'm fresh out of actually decent posting inspiration.

Nice one Kreig, well writen and informative.

I'm in a war RP now so i should try and lose a bit more often. I don't intend to lose the war but we all know that you don't get victory after victory in war. I shouldn't hide so much behind my technology and and my Navy so much now i think about it.

Well done anyway :)

wow pretty good

Thanks Questers, that's really appreciated. Can't wait to have some Kriegos forced into the idea of modern warfare, in the form of the KSF (Kriegos Security Forces). Will be fun. :)

And I'm really glad I have a convert in you, Stevid! I like your RP and it's great to see that it'll be more story based than competitive, also, I'll be sure to take a look at your war.

Thanks, Morvonia.

You do know that that "convert" line made you sound like a crazy dictator, didn't you? OH, and we're all converts of this guide. For the simple fact that it is truth. :)

You do know that that "convert" line made you sound like a crazy dictator, didn't you? OH, and we're all converts of this guide. For the simple fact that it is truth. :)

Hehe, Comrade Leader Krieg!

That's awesome, I'm glad that it's having an impact, even a good few months after it was made. Nice to see it's being read as a thread rather than being lumped into the intimidating "Consolidation Sticky"!

bump because this is relevant more now than ever

bump because this is relevant more now than ever
Amen. All too often do people forget this. That the ultimate goal is not to win, but to have fun.

Thanks for the bump mate. Just edited it so it resembles what I wanted it to be more.

And ta, Carbandia, when exams and all are done, wouldn't mind having a good competition to see who can lose their poor troops in the most horrible way imaginable!

Who knows, assuming work won't be a pain in the ass. :D Send me a tg, perhaps?

STICKY!! excellent post man. Actually I have a colony that's being invaded by 4 powers and I'm going to lose it but I'm still rping that my men on the ground are putting up a helluva fight. 0_o (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=508868)

Sent you a telegram, Carb.

And I read some of your RP, Groz, looks fun so far. Good luck with it!

This should get stickied. I've never even seen this before-and it would help some of the win-win noobs.

This should get stickied. I've never even seen this before-and it would help some of the win-win noobs.
If I could, I'd sticky it in a heartbeat..This deserves to be up there with the other threads on how to rp.

Krieg, you're alive!

Hey Doom, maybe you could help Krieg enhance this. Im pretty sure you're experienced at losing, after I kicked your ass so much.

Oh, yes, all negative three times :) Wait, I think it was negative four...

questers-doomani war doesn't count for epic fail

Ta, Carbandia and Amazonian Beasts, this actually was stickied, but it was unstickied for reasons I either wasn't told or forgot. No matter though, so long as some peoples are reading it, it's all good.

And yeah Doom, barely alive, but alive. Gonna' get RPing again as a protectorate of Questers, albeit on a limited scale, as I don't have a huge amount of passion for writing like I used to, I just rely on bursts on inspiration help me write.

Lol@matt/doom's e-penis rattling (sabre-rattling with moar cock). :)