NationStates Jolt Archive


OOC: Help Designing an Air Force

Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 11:18
Hey guys!

Many of you will have seen my "Kazakh Provinces Army Strcutre" thread, and even a few of you might actually have read it. Now, I promised I was going to do the Air Force at a later date, I sat down to do it.....and couldn't.

I need some help with numbers. I was going to end up resorting to having "Squadrons", which would be large transportable units. But what happens when I want to transport Wings and the like?

In any case, I was wondering what my Air Force should be, in which numbers etc.

Help!
Lanquassia
25-06-2005, 11:35
Well, how do you want to organise your airforce?

I prefer this setup:

Flight: 2 planes.
Wing: Four Flights (8 planes)
Squadron: Three Wings(24 planes)

Well, you can change the numbers about, and maybe add in a grouping of squadrons (Although I wouldn't, personally...)
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 13:50
That looks quite good.

I would have flights of three, wings of twelve and squadrons of thirty siz, which is more like it.

Thanks.

Now in what ratio's, i.e. Interceptor' to Multiroles to Ground Attack.

I usually have 1/2 Multirole, and 1/4 and 1/4 Attack and Interceptor respectively.
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 13:53
That's a good ratio to have... what planes are you planning to use?
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 14:01
Multirole - F-45 (Su-37 on steroids) or F/A-41 (F-16 Block 50-alike)

Interceptor - F-42 (F-15 on steroids)

Ground Attack - Su-39

This gives me a cost effective option, but if specialised aircraft are needed, they are there.
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 14:06
Why not just use the actual aircraft, instead of having 'F' designations for everything?

You also need to decide what you are going to do about long range bomber aircraft. Depending on the target, a B2 Spirit or a B-52 are good for high altitude. A B-1/B Lancer is good for fast strikes that are accurate... and the F-111 can also achieve that role much more cost-effectively.

Also, intelligence gathering is useful. If you want human intel, then the SR-71 Blackbird is the best for the job. Or the U2. If you don't want to put pilots at risk, use UAV's.

And of course, transportation aircraft, such the C-130 Galaxy or the C-5 Starlifter are needed. Making an airforce is difficult work. I'll give you a hand though
Adejaani
25-06-2005, 14:13
To follow up on Snake Eater's comments, I'd look into airborne radar and electronic warfare. The US Air Force may be the best in the world, but unless they know when and where to strike and to protect their assets and know where the enemy is, it won't worth a damn.

Things like the E-3 Sentry and EA-6B Prowler are a definite must.

Also, just buying the aircraft won't mean a thing. You need the right ordnance and people to keep your air force going strong. Training is one thing that most people overlook, but simply put, if your pilots aren't good enough, be prepared to write letters to loved ones. Training is important, as is the infrastructure to keep the air force flying and healthy.
Inertialization
25-06-2005, 14:15
Well generally a tactical airforce should comprise of several planes attributed to different roles (and some multi-role). The roles could generally be : interceptor (fighter), bomber, attack, possibly reconnaissance, ( any combination of these roles) and cargo transports. you could also other utility squadrons for other more specialized roles, like AWACS, air-refueling, UAVs, anti-sub and so on.

Generally, in the air-force I work for, a squadron has about 12-20 planes, and any wing has about two-four squadrons (depending on the purpose mostly...)

I believe the scheme is more dependant on what you actually want to do, the territory they must cover, and the borders and airspace you trully need to watch over. For instance, in mountains, I would suggest more choppers (but these are generally the army's), while for island complexes (there is funny word we use, I can't really translate), we use reciprocatingly changing "flights" (usually pairs) which come from the interceptor/fighter combat wings.
the bomber's don't have to be very dispersed as they generally have more effective range......

Hope that was helpful.....
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 14:25
To follow up on Snake Eater's comments, I'd look into airborne radar and electronic warfare. The US Air Force may be the best in the world, but unless they know when and where to strike and to protect their assets and know where the enemy is, it won't worth a damn.

Things like the E-3 Sentry and EA-6B Prowler are a definite must.

Also, just buying the aircraft won't mean a thing. You need the right ordnance and people to keep your air force going strong. Training is one thing that most people overlook, but simply put, if your pilots aren't good enough, be prepared to write letters to loved ones. Training is important, as is the infrastructure to keep the air force flying and healthy.

I'd like to let it be known that the US Air Force is only the best due to the sheer amount of money thrown at it. If the RAF had the same resources, they would beat you every time. This is the word of God...

Anyway, yeah, the E-3/D Sentry is a good choice. You might also want to look into the new JSTARS system that I've heard of. And yes, training is important. RAF fast jet training takes a total of I think just a shade under seven years. Take that as a good start point
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 14:34
AWAC's, EW and Refueling Aircraft are filtered in at a Squadron level, so if I decide to deploy several Squadrons to some far off warzone, i would deploy several of these Units aswell.

My structure works so that one Fighter Squadron can be supported by one AWAC's, EW and Refueling Squadron, as they are both compatable.

Bomber's are more offensive Aircraft, so I will begin to build them when I need an offensive capability.

What sort of ratio of these types should I have to Actual Combat Aircraft? And please dont patrionise me, I am a relativly experienced nation. Anyone know Kazakhstania and Freedom Country? And yes, RAF rules. I'm in the ATC.
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 14:38
So, hold on. If you are Kazakhstania, then whay are you asking? I've RP'd with you before, you know your stuff.

AWAC's can also fulfil the EW role, jamming enemy signals and such, so you can multi-task with them. And if you have a 1:1 ratio, you are going to end up building huge amounts of aircraft. An AWAC's system has a maximum range of almost five hundred miles in the new models, so the ratio should be far smaller

P.S ATC sucks, CCF RAF Section rules... Go Cpl SE! LOL
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 14:42
This is really the first time I have tried to structure my armed forces. Before, I just threw nice round numbers at the enemy.

I was thinking that about six squadrons would work around one AWAC's squadron? That would make it easy to structure. Same with Refuelers.

P.S. ATC rules, which other organisation lets you fire L-85's legally before your 16? Apart fromt he Army Cadets, and they are idiots.
Independent Hitmen
25-06-2005, 14:42
OOC: Thought it was you :P
In my air force, though I have never calculated a complete total number of aircraft, I assume that for every two fighters/interceptors that I have I possess one bomber aircraft of varied prescription inactive service.

My nation has large stockpiles of aircraft, tanks, ships etc that will only be used if a massive war happens on the scale of NWO/NATO conflict. Reserves train on semi-active aircraft who's pilots are on squadron leave etc, or in some cases the National Guard has a set number of aircraft which the entire Counties pilots will cycle through once a month to keep their skills recent, if not honed.

In periods of increase political risk/activity these training periods become longer and more intensive, and also if it becomes serious the aircraft will begin to be removed from storage.

The nation also has many unused airfields which have basic facilites that are kept by a small skeleton crew and can be staffed with more reservists if the need arises.


Oh and SE, im a CCF RAF section Sgt :P
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 14:46
Sounds good. I have different squadrons in various readiness levels, Green, Orange and Red. Green is inactive, orange is active and red is increased readiness.

I have constantly looked after airfields, but a few skeleton bases. Most of my airfields are in strategically important places already, but a few are inactive, and ready to be used. Think MOD Macrahanish.

Damn you Regular Armed Forces people! I'm a pretend Corporal :D
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 14:46
This is really the first time I have tried to structure my armed forces. Before, I just threw nice round numbers at the enemy.

I was thinking that about six squadrons would work around one AWAC's squadron? That would make it easy to structure. Same with Refuelers.

P.S. ATC rules, which other organisation lets you fire L-85's legally before your 16? Apart fromt he Army Cadets, and they are idiots.

That works better. And ATC sucks. Alright, just accept it, move on in your life. Lol, it's only the rivalry between us. (Just know, the RAF call you guys space cadets. Not us.)

Oh and SE, im a CCF RAF section Sgt :P
Can I ask where from? And how old are you?
Independent Hitmen
25-06-2005, 14:48
Surrey, im 17.

I've fired the L-98 several bazillion times, im not entirely familiar with the L-85 though? Is that the carbine version?
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 14:50
Surrey, im 17.

I've fired the L-98 several bazillion times, im not entirely familiar with the L-85 though? Is that the carbine version?
Lincolnshire. 16, and highest ranked in my year group

The L-85A2 is the current rifle for the Army, more commonly called the SA-80.
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 14:50
Cool! I'll start makign the spreadsheet now.

Space cadets? That's a new one to me. I don't really care anyway. Usually its somewhat ruder :D

L-98 is the manual cocking version. L-85 is the SA-80. Automatic, not that we use it that way. We used L-85's on a SAT range once, over 5,000 rounds, and we still couldn't hit shit.
Adejaani
25-06-2005, 14:53
The composition of your Air Force is really what you want it for. A squadron of F/A-18s is a pretty good bet. You can use them to defend your airspace and to attack your enemies if they land on your turf. They're carrier capable and can take care of themselves pretty well.

Generally speaking, bombers should only be a relatively small fraction, as larger multirole fighters (eg F/A-22) can also deal a fair amount of damage and are more versatile at neutering the enemy's army than bombers ever could. Indeed, bombers are for large scale, relatively fixed ground targets only, like airfields, supply and repair depots etc

In conclusion and this is by no means final, one "pure" air superiority fighter; three multirole fighters; two direct support aircraft (AWACS, electronic warfare); two logistics aircraft (aerial refueling and transport); half a bomber.

That's a generally good ratio to have in any event, though you'd probably skew it slightly to have more multirole fighters (they're worth the investment), but don't forget to have some really good anti air fighters, they're necessary too.

Also, don't discount the need for dedicated attack fighters, either. Aircraft like the A-6E Intruder are between multirole fighters (in air to ground mode) and bombers, but are a heap more flexible, with the advantages and few of the disadvantages of both, the main disadvantage being a specialist role. In your case, I'd recommend the Intruder instead of bombers, at least in the beginning.
Independent Hitmen
25-06-2005, 14:55
Ahh right. Well you two are one up on me then in that stake :(.

As you probably know from experience kazakh, you have to start a spreadsheet when your nation is small for things like this and then maintain it, or else it gets so large so quickly.

Im trying to catch up with my navy atm, but it is pretty darn hard with all the ships I claim to have! I might have to downsize so that I can remember then all/ think of names for all the principle ones!
Snake Eaters
25-06-2005, 14:55
Hahahaha. Less than 300 rounds at Cranwell SAT Range the other day, and I hit almost everything. And you guys can go so much more than we can... lol, this just cements my thoughts on the ATC. Anyway, I will stop flaming that topic now.

There is a spread sheet you could use that might help you, it's a military calculator: http://www.geocities.com/versionizer/CompletedCalculator.xls

You can use the airforce section to determine final strength
Kazakh Provinces
25-06-2005, 14:58
It's ok. We were doing a Bosnia simulation, one of the guys friendly fired an American Humvee and took out a bunch of Americans. Idiot.

I've done a spreadsheet for my army, so the Air Force won't be too hard. It gets bigger every day.

I'm not even going to touch my Navy.