NationStates Jolt Archive

There is something missing from NS, it hasnt been here since...well, since about a year after I first joined. As you may have guessed from the title of this thread, its wars.
NS lacks these at present, in fact, most of the first page consists of tech topics, charecter RP's, storefronts, small 'squad conflicts', and closed stuff. Not that any of these are BAD, they simply shouldnt be what occupies most of the front page.
I realize that many people enjoy these, and thats fine, but the thing is they dont interest many new players. When many newbs (and I mean newbs, not puppets, or NSers faking newbism) come in, they usualy get together with their friends and have a war or something, or declare war on somebody, or the UN, or the world.
This is not good.
IF we already HAD wars, started by experienced RPers that were OPEN to anybody, then they wouldnt HAVE to do this and could gain good RP experience before bothering with the intricacies of international diplomacy.

Aside from that, it seems like its almost impossible to have a decent war without dogpiling, alliance-wanking, or ignoring. Uber-Alliances create an environment which simply isnt fun, when your trying to respond to an attack only to discover that, while you were typing, three people attacked your flanks and are yelling at you for not responding, you tend to get a bit depressed.
If you look back about fifty pages, you start seeing more wars, and the further back you go, the more you seem to see. True, during this period most wars ended in tech-wank ignorefests, but that was (almost :P) part of the fun. Of course, about a hundred pages back people started alliance wanking and the wars started dropping off, leading to the present NS which is, as I said, basicaly a stagnant uber-buerocracy of people making new tanks that wont ever be used for anything significant.

I dont pretend that everybody is going to agree with me, or even that a majority will agree with me. I dont think this is going to have any effect, in fact, on NS at all. Most likely it will drop down to the second page before I have a chance to check it again, but I feel better for posting it.

i agree with everything you just said and feel as though ive missed out on NS's golden age :( ah well

I have something planned, something BIG...

A war that everyone can lose and not "lose" anything, an opportunity to cut loose the dogs of war without fear of (many) reprecussions.

More will be forthcoming, but this will be cool, if people go along with it.

I think one of the things about war is that its a gamble, if you lose you WILL be occupied, enslaved and genrealy abused, aside from having your soil sown with salt and watered with blood and all that.
If you wanted a war with no conflicts, you could have a wargame.

OCC: This is why I have a small rebelion/war going as my current on going plot. This way I can limit aliance wanking and set the rules. Plus the war is gona end soon with something I never thought I'd do.

One problem with the idea of the open war RP is what you alluded to earlier: Dogpiles. We keep getting the, "well, you're going to execute him? I'll get the entire [Name of uber alliance] on you." "Oh yeah, well I'll get [name of other uber alliance] on you." "I've got AMF on speed dial."

Another problem that happened when I first started playing this game was bigger countries butting into a war between two smaller countries and basically ruining a good RP by either squashing both smaller countries or by "carpet nuking" one country or the other. I saw more than enough rampant n00bism in my early days in NS for me to frown on the idea of EVER doing a open RP.

Some of the more serious players in this game have specific stories they want to tell and have plans for their countries or their characters and they don't want some random n00b "n00king" their characters out of existence.

However, the biggest problem I've had with RPs that were too open is the number of people who get involved in a RP becomes too difficult to manage. The more players you have involved in a RP, the more ideas you have about how to run that RP. That's why I mostly do invite or closed RPs and if I have anything semi-open, I ask you to tell me what you plan to contribute to the storyline.

That's the way I've found is the best way to run a RP.

When I first started reading this I thought to myself, "bah! I remember only a few months ago I was in a whole bunch of wars!" but as I read on I realised that I was either in tiny squad style combat missions or huge allience heavy mashes. I was only in 1 good war, after I eliminate all those extras. hmmmm, you've gone and made me want to smash things...

I like the idea of there being just a "world," and everyone "views" it in a different way. That makes RP'ing more freeflow and not based on how far it is to the next persons shores.

The problem with that is that if someone can't get something the exact way they want it, they just go and start a new EARTH!

I wished things were more "open," and I wish there were more chances for me to send "obervation forces" to other nations that are at war just to watch, and I could play around without fear of having my nation nuked, or ran over by a 30+ member coalition.

It's a trade off, i think it was Miss Pwangee, er something, but she had a open OOC sign up thread. then she started a closed thread with everyone who signed up... it was still open, you could set rules and make things more fair and realistic, while controlling the "mass noobism".

but it only worked once for a week till the IC thread just died...

i think if it was an unwritten rule or something understood by the vets in the forums and taught to the noobs then it would deffinitly work...

First war I was ever in was by the FC incident (remember the huge invasion with CtP [he paradropped my men], which was ignored, and then AMF attacked CtP homeland?) What disgusted me was that many people only joined the pro-FC coalition because he was being dogpiled, not because the agreed with him! That was a turn-off to war for a lot of people, I think.

Nothing to see here.

Golden age... To me, this is a golden age. No World Wars. No IGNORE-fests. No number-wanking threads that turn into giant math problems. No alliance dogpiles.

Things are quiet. Quiet is good.

Right now, I'm planning at least two wars for land, while I'm involved in rebuilding and defending an ally's fleet. Yes, the wars will be closed. Why? because otherwise it turns into the above if they aren't.

And Sarzonia... I DO have AMF on speed dial. I just don't like relying on him(or anyone else) to pull my ass out of trouble. Occasionally I will call for help, but usually when I'm really in over my head, or want to share a kill with some allies that would enjoy it.

Yeah, wars these days are just crazy. Hell, I have not been on NS in a while cause of some wack-o Earth.

But yeah, I have not really seen any actual wars in a while, since, well, this time last year.

Really makes you think. "As we get older-" (The current players, that is)"-and we gain mroe knowledge about politics, economics, and military technology, wouldn't we start RPing closer to actual nations, instead of just throw armies around?"

I see it that way. Last year, you see a post on Air Superiority Fighter, it would have basics. Engine, stats, and a brief paragraph on it, and somtimes a pic. Now, you have a whole damn computing system, alieron layout, and engine bionary construction descroptions.

Back when, no on cared about tech. They would go at it in numbers and some tatics and see who won. Didn't mattr if it was a army of M4s, or M16s, it was the tatics and element of surprise.

Now it seems like who has the better stuff, biggest economy, and largest population. A damn pacifist went from almost no-police to a full Nazi Germany in less than a week (7 NS years, if you will) and RPed little of it happening, leaving you to think. Then he said no matter how I jumped him, his sensors and arrays would allow him to see everything from miles.

I know I am rambling, but to make this short, people are getting too technical. A long time ago, a newbie (like I was once, oh my God!) could join and easy join in a RP. Alliances were limied to two or three members and most wars on tops had about five total nations, of which, usually just two actually fought.

Then, they would liberate it, or annex it, right there. Make the desicion and kill the suspence. They also acceted defeat, and respected that nation for beating them.

Now, they say "Oh no, I have fifty gurellas in my capitol, I own your force of five guardsmen. Marxism Rocks!" It just...sucks now.

But yeah....ramble ramble ramble.

Golden age... To me, this is a golden age. No World Wars. No IGNORE-fests. No number-wanking threads that turn into giant math problems. No alliance dogpiles.I agree to an extent. Personally, I get sick and tired of hearing everyone lavish the Amerigo Slave Wars with so much praise when I'm one of the folks who didn't discover the game until long after that RP ended. There is a LOT of quality RP that people aren't seeing or paying as much attention to as they can be.

And Sarzonia... I DO have AMF on speed dial. I just don't like relying on him(or anyone else) to pull my ass out of trouble. Occasionally I will call for help, but usually when I'm really in over my head, or want to share a kill with some allies that would enjoy it.I'm the same way. I don't know if I can say I have AMF on speed dial (not that I've ever ICly asked his help in a war), but I like to be able to take care of my own problems for the most part. I used that line among the others to sound off about the propensity people have of threatening other players with their enormous alliances. It really stifles a lot of what this game can bring.

And Thunder Bolt, I find positives in the detail that goes into the technology players develop these days rather than the basics of yesterday that don't really tell you anything or even tell you if an air superiority fighter (to use your example) is better than what's currently out there in RL militaries. I like to think that as more players do research into various technologies, the design work gets better. It's better for the game IMO.

I know, I have so few people actually pay attention to my troops, even when I am the one who starts the war. probably because of the limited omniscient perspective and notation style I use.

Its true, NS does need a war...

Well if some older members recall Acigoo (if you don't TG me and I'll explain) a fourth incident might occur and they usualy spawn wars that don't result in dog piling if you get lucky but can fall into n00bish failure (see third acigoo war)

Is there any way we could have little skirmishes ands stuff and keep the aliance stuff out of it?

I mean, I like it so two nations are fighting, or about to fight, and I can always send in an "observation force" to moniter things and blow some stuff up in the meantime, but now if I try anything of the sort I have 10 nations telling me it's wrong for me to ask questions.

I usually don't take part in RP's with huge dogpiles, I choose my RP wisely and try to leave my alliances out of this, they are only usefull when you're attacked, I have about 1 RP at a time, to keep it managable. Also, I haven't seen a nice war out here, but that's maybe because I haven't joined very early.

Well, I'm bored. Anyone up for a limited conflict over some stupid island? This might solved the whole war issue. Or maybe we are competing (navally) for domination of some region's seas? Fighting over a small rebelling province?

The whole truth to the matter is that wars equals noobs. And Im not only talking about nations that haven't posted more than thirty times in the role playing forums, but Im talking about the lifers, and even some nations who have a somewhat decent role playing reputation. I have seen threads where one noob starts a war, or kills half their population, or whatever and while the first few pages of posts are usually alright, once you get to page three or four, it usually turns out to be nothing more than a black hole that sucks in the skill and reputation of decent role players. People like Sephrioth, Fascist White States, Hataria, are prime examples of this. Any war thread any of those three nations started it would end up with someone nuking someone else, or someone ignoring the other hundred nations involved in the thread.

Personally I am glad there have not been many war threads lately, and everyone here should count their blessings because lets face it, Nationstates has turned the corner into a new eraand theroleplayers that pretty much ruled the world before have all but disappeared with the exception being AMF and a few others, and new role players have begun to make names for themselves and I think the reason that there are so many character role plays now is because of the war threads of old. Many nations, manyself included, saw these threads and saw how the rest of the people were reacting to them and decided that instead of taking a chance with a war, that they would just focus on a few characters and roleplay their nation.