NationStates Jolt Archive

Are you looking to replace your obsolete military technology with the latest cutting edge weapons? Are the inflated prices on new mil-tech on the market too high for you? Are you horrified after calculating the total cost of importing new weapons, re-training personnel, replacing your entire supplies of ammunition and spare parts and safely disposing of the old useless stuff?

Worry not. With the help of the Holy Womble Arms, even the oldest of your weapons will soon regain the ability to strike fear into your enemies' hearts. We can modify even the most outdated equipment and turn it into a worthy rival for the most advanced modern arms systems.

Following the astonishing success of the recent Close Quarters Assault Weapon project, the military industries of the Holy Womble are determined to further expand their share in the world arms market. We hereby invite any interested parties to submit requiests for modernizing obsolete weapons. After enough requests are submitted, we will choose the one we find most appealing in terms of both economic benefit for our nation and the scientific challenge the project itself presents. However, when filing the request, the following guidelines are to be observed:

1)Holy Womble Arms does not work with Future Technologies. This does not mean that we will automatically refuse any request coming from an FT nation- but we will most certainly turn down any weapons system that is based on technology newer than the one avaliable on the early 21 century Earth.
2)We are not interested in designing new weapons from scratch at this point in time. What we are looking for is modernizing your already existing weapons.
3)We do not wish to commit ourselves to large scale sophisticated projects. At the moment we do not modernize submarines, warships, aircraft or spaceships. Requests for tanks are also undesirable. Our area of expertise includes small arms, heavy infantry weapons, ammunition, police equipment, targeting system, communications and electronics. However, we are willing to step outside our traditional preferences if the project proves interesting enough.

If you wish to submit a request, please leave us the following information:

1)Weapon description
2)Reasons why this weapon has been found inadequate
3) What kind of tasks you intend to perform with this weapon
4)Which features (accuracy, reliability, rate of fire, etc.) you would want us to focus on
5)The amount of funds you are willing to invest into the project
6)Number of weapon units you wish us to modify.

We are looking forward for fruitful cooperation with you.

Tomsk Womble, Defense Minister, Free Land of the Holy Womble.

P.S. Examples of weapon systems we can design and modify can be found in our storefront (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424891&page=1&pp=15).

(OOC- Bumpity bump. Come on people, don't tell me you've thrown away all your previous generation rifles, jeeps and other stuff. Every nation that advances in technology would have some obsolete tech stashed somewhere ;))

If I say that I have 1000 Brown Bess muskets, can you make them into some nice automatic assault rifles able to fire accurate 7,62 mm NATO rounds? I'm willing to use 50 million USD on it. Guess three times why they currently are inadequate...

If I say that I have 1000 Brown Bess muskets, can you make them into some nice automatic assault rifles able to fire accurate 7,62 mm NATO rounds? I'm willing to use 50 million USD on it. Guess three times why they currently are inadequate...
Perhaps not. But there are other things that could be done with Brown Bess muskets. They could, for example, be rebuilt as turnbolt-action weapons fitted with proprietary cup-shaped single shot grenade launchers (of the kind the US army used to put on Garands during World war II)- and distributed to civilians in case of a successful enemy invasion. Would make an interesting guerilla weapon, and with the right grenades, quite effective for insurgency style warfare ;)

Actually, doing a "Snider" conversion to the Brown Bess, then reheat-treating the barrel, can create some interesting possibilities with advanced current-technology ideas. the Brown Bess is .75 calibres, a hair short of 20mm at the bore.

using a Sabot, you can load it with a sub-calibre fin-stabilized projectile made of, say, DU and Tungsten, and using the Snider design with modern alloys, you can make the Breech strong enough to run a fairly high powder-charge-certainly enough to take advantage of the weapon being a smoothebore. Say, a ten pound AMR type weapon for use against light armour (including heavy "Riot Grade" gear), vehicles, etc. etc.

Actually, doing a "Snider" conversion to the Brown Bess, then reheat-treating the barrel, can create some interesting possibilities with advanced current-technology ideas. the Brown Bess is .75 calibres, a hair short of 20mm at the bore.

using a Sabot, you can load it with a sub-calibre fin-stabilized projectile made of, say, DU and Tungsten, and using the Snider design with modern alloys, you can make the Breech strong enough to run a fairly high powder-charge-certainly enough to take advantage of the weapon being a smoothebore. Say, a ten pound AMR type weapon for use against light armour (including heavy "Riot Grade" gear), vehicles, etc. etc.
That's another nice idea. Is it patented?

That's another nice idea. Is it patented?

Not that I'm aware of-it's basically just making a minature version of a Rhienmetall 120 tank-gun firing a "Silver bullet" round-but with a longer barrel to raise the velocity a bit.
One should be able to develop a decent amount of KE, along with having really good penetration thanks to the higher sectional density of the impacting slug, and the self-sharpening traits of DU/Tungsten blend projectiles.

With a Flechette load, it might also be useful in a dedicated antipersonnel role for insurgents or insurgency suppression. Since the base weapon is a smoothebore of fairly large diameter, you can also look at other "Special Purpose" rounds-an explosive warhead for wall-breaching, for instance, or a blank-fired "Grenade" mount fired off hte muzzle.

You're sacrificing rate-of-fire for downrange power.

Do you have any ideas for upgrades to the M14 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as15-e.html)? I'm thinking something along the lines of improved materials for reduced weight and size while retaining its strength, an intergrated scope, and rails for weapon attachments.

Or should I just switch to the G3A3?

Do you have any ideas for upgrades to the M14 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as15-e.html)? I'm thinking something along the lines of improved materials for reduced weight and size while retaining its strength, an intergrated scope, and rails for weapon attachments.

Or should I just switch to the G3A3?

IRL, "Springfield Armory", an Ohio based company that builds civilianized M-14 clones has produced a nice "Scout rifle" variant with integrated picatinny rail on the forward handguard to mount a red-dot sight, a shortened barrel, all on a carbon-fibre full-stock. It weighs just a hair over the base-model M-16A2, uses the 7.62x51 NATO round, has the same magazine port as the older model, and retains the bayonet lug with an improved flash-suppressor/muzzle brake that cuts down on "Muzzle Blast" effects.

A select-fire version using the M-14's paratrooper variant stock wouldn't be too far off your spec-sheet, simply replace the walnut stock with a carbon-fibre composite model and you're in business-though for corrosion resistance and such, I'd look at replacing the 4140 steel with a nice Stainless/highchrome/nickel blend, and switch from machined forgings to investment-casting for the reciever. this is much easier than trying to machine Stainless cleanly, and reduces your manufacturing costs compared to the original significantly. You can also replace most of your Parkerizing with Powder-Coating, this will lower your costs in manufacture and maintenance as well-the current process in the Firearms industry is temperature and impact flexible, so you dont' get the cracking you get from most baked finishes.

Other methods of lightening the arm (if you want to spend on it) include fluting the barrel forward of the chamber (this lowers weight, and actually aids in stiffness when combined with the right heat-treat.), installing a captive-spring guide for the operating spring (lowers dirt intrusion and salt intrusion, also serves to "Guide" the operating rod, reducing incidents of warpage...), improved alloy at the operating rod tip with cammed valve instead of threaded (to speed breakdown for cleaning)
Changing weight distribution can also help-many competition shooters install a spring-loaded weight in the stock to damp recoil forces on front-end-lightened guns (esp. trap and skeet competitors.) this also aids in smoothing the "Swing" for engaging moving targets.

Remember: one of the '14's advantages is its low-profile sights. That is, the irons are closer to the bore centreline, this mitigates the impact of "Tilting" the rifle in awkward holds (a definite advantage in combat-your sight picture is not as far off from your impact point, and much closer to bore-sight.)

The M-14 is easier to field-strip and maintain than the HK or CETME rifles-this was done on purpose by both sides-European doctrines tend to focus on having a dedicated armorer handling more tasks that American and Russian soldiers are expected to learn in basic-training, including deep-cleaning the rifle under primitive conditions.

The roller-lock on the HK (and on the MG-34, 44, and MG-3 families) includes small parts that are easily lost once out of the rifle. the Garand family of rifles (M-1 Garand, M-14, and BM-59) are designed to break down in "Units" which are both easily located and cleaned, and contain few small, critical, parts that aren't in fixed positions. The M-1's elevator-magazine being the exception, and a complicated piece of shit that was corrected by going to the box-magazine used in its immediate successor.

Wow. How did you know all of that? :eek: :D

Well then, THW, I'd like 4700 M14s refitted with:

-Picatinny rails on top and bottom
-Foldable/retractable carbon-fibre stock (drop retractability if it isn't possible)
-Cast steel alloy or comparable metal receiver, powder-coated
-The muzzlebrake used on the M1 Scout (http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-scout.shtml)

Do you have any ideas for upgrades to the M14 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as15-e.html)? I'm thinking something along the lines of improved materials for reduced weight and size while retaining its strength, an intergrated scope, and rails for weapon attachments.

Or should I just switch to the G3A3?
The M14 is an excellent weapon. However, already at the moment of its production it was an outdated design as far as assault rifles go- too long and heavy to carry around and at the same time not heavy enough for the powerful cartridge it fired (which resulted in excessive muzzle climb in the full auto mood, which is why most M14 issued during the Vietnam war had, as far as I know, their full auto option locked). However, this rifle's legendary single-shot accuracy could allow the Holy Womble Arms to convert it into an excellent semi-automatic Designated Marksman rifle, namely the TCI M89 (http://www.isayeret.com/content/sniping/Sniper2.jpg) variant. This will include rebuilding it into a bullpup polymer stock to reduce the length and weight, adding a relatively long (56 cm) heavy free floated barrel (which will not result in an excessive length due to the bullpup configuration), a proprietary scope mount and a bipod and performing certain minor modifications in the gas system. The open sights can be left on or removed if you so desire. The resulting weapon's total weight will be about 6.28 kg, (7.03 kg with a sound suppressor mounted).

During our tests, the TCI M89 was found to be exceptionally accurate for a semi-automatic weapon, capable of 1MOA accuracy with standard issue ammo and close to 0.75MOA with match grade ammunition.

If you are interested, please tell us how many rifles you would like to be redesigned this way and how much money you are willing to invest in it.

OOC: Uh...Verghastinsel Armaments manufactures a few things, and I reckon that some improvements could be made to our existing PDW. I've copied the entry direct from my storefront, so this is all the info on it. Basically, I've just copied a Ruger MP9.

Verghastinsel Armaments Maschinenpistole 1995 Model 2 - MP95M2 (Vehicle crews/supply troops armament)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Verghastinsel/MP95M2.bmp
Caliber: 9x19mm (.354in) Luger/Para
Velocity: 458m/s
Weight: 3kg
Length (Open/Folded): 556/376mm
Capacity: 32 rds (Box)
Fire Modes: Single Shot/Burst(3)/Full Automatic
RoF: N/A(S)/700rpm(3)/550rpm(F)

OOC: Uh...Verghastinsel Armaments manufactures a few things, and I reckon that some improvements could be made to our existing PDW. I've copied the entry direct from my storefront, so this is all the info on it. Basically, I've just copied a Ruger MP9.

Verghastinsel Armaments Maschinenpistole 1995 Model 2 - MP95M2 (Vehicle crews/supply troops armament)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Verghastinsel/MP95M2.bmp
Caliber: 9x19mm (.354in) Luger/Para
Velocity: 458m/s
Weight: 3kg
Length (Open/Folded): 556/376mm
Capacity: 32 rds (Box)
Fire Modes: Single Shot/Burst(3)/Full Automatic
RoF: N/A(S)/700rpm(3)/550rpm(F)

A fairly conventional design, that could probably benefit from a conventional solution. I would suggest rechambering this weapon into the 9mm SP10 (9x21 Russian) caliber or into 10mm Auto. Both are more capable than the 9mmLuger you are using. The 10mm Auto roughly equals in performance to the .357 Magnum, the best man-stopper cartridge to date. The SP 10 is an outstanding armor piercing round, capable of penetrating 30 layers of Kevlar plus up to 2.8mm titanium plate at 100 meters.

If you're interested, name the number of weapons and the amount of funds you are willing to invest into the project.

The M14 is an excellent weapon. However, already at the moment of its production it was an outdated design as far as assault rifles go- too long and heavy to carry around and at the same time not heavy enough for the powerful cartridge it fired (which resulted in excessive muzzle climb in the full auto mood, which is why most M14 issued during the Vietnam war had, as far as I know, their full auto option locked). However, this rifle's legendary single-shot accuracy could allow the Holy Womble Arms to convert it into an excellent semi-automatic Designated Marksman rifle, namely the TCI M89 (http://www.isayeret.com/content/sniping/Sniper2.jpg) variant. This will include rebuilding it into a bullpup polymer stock to reduce the length and weight, adding a relatively long (56 cm) heavy free floated barrel (which will not result in an excessive length due to the bullpup configuration), a proprietary scope mount and a bipod and performing certain minor modifications in the gas system. The open sights can be left on or removed if you so desire. The resulting weapon's total weight will be about 6.28 kg, (7.03 kg with a sound suppressor mounted).

During our tests, the TCI M89 was found to be exceptionally accurate for a semi-automatic weapon, capable of 1MOA accuracy with standard issue ammo and close to 0.75MOA with match grade ammunition.

If you are interested, please tell us how many rifles you would like to be redesigned this way and how much money you are willing to invest in it.

actually, the muzzle-climb issue had more to do with the weapon's stock-layout than with weight. (ALL full-auto weapons have a muzzle-climb problem, it's a problem usually reduced by placing the centreline of the buttplate near bore centerline, but requires tall sights...)
Further, the M-14 isn't designed as an "Assault Rifle", it's a "Battle Rifle", there is a difference. The adoption of the 300-meter-rule by the McNamara-led DoD in 1964 is what created the myth of the M14's obselecence (it is over a pound lighter than the same-generation FN-FAL, and was found to be more reliable in two series tests between 1954 and 1959).
Full-auto fire is not as effective as the movies make it look. check AAR's and reported observations from Fallujah- the insurgents used the AK-47's primary mode against americans firing semiauto and primarily single shots in Semiauto.

Spray-and-pray as a doctrine is merely an excuse not to train soldiers in marksmanship. The "Designated Marksman" concept further creates a point-failure in squad dynamics on the battlefield, to wit: you can not count on your designated marksman surviving a mortar attack, grenade, or return-fire from the opposition. since the "Designated Marksman" is trained and used to a different weapon than his compatriots, he becomes a vulnerability against a well-trained enemy who uses the "Every soldier a Marksman" mentality in training and deployment. this situation is less similar with a machinegunner, since machinegun operation is area-denial and does not require precise targeting (or, in some cases, sights) to function in the suppressive mode.

For IC purposes, I tend to use a smaller military with more intensive training including the "Every Soldier is a Marksman" mentality. While this does cause some difficulties in low-intensity conflicts, My nation doesn't get involved in those as a normal course of business (being Neutral/Noninterventionist and all...), so waiting until the enemy is upon you to identify him as such is not much of an issue.

OTOH, being able to dictate range over the mostly-open-country along my borders and in the north is important- a rifle that is effective at longer ranges and possesses better base-accuracy being much more useful than black-plastic bullet-spraying glorfied submachinegun.

A fairly conventional design, that could probably benefit from a conventional solution. I would suggest rechambering this weapon into the 9mm SP10 (9x21 Russian) caliber or into 10mm Auto. Both are more capable than the 9mmLuger you are using. The 10mm Auto roughly equals in performance to the .357 Magnum, the best man-stopper cartridge to date. The SP 10 is an outstanding armor piercing round, capable of penetrating 30 layers of Kevlar plus up to 2.8mm titanium plate at 100 meters.

If you're interested, name the number of weapons and the amount of funds you are willing to invest into the project.

VA is most certainly interested in the proposed use of the 10mm Auto. The weapon is currently used by the Verghastan army, and the General Staff have expressed their wishes for a round with better penetration. We would like fifty weapons (Which VA will supply) to be modified to fire 10mm Auto, and the cost is unimportant.

At the moment, our air force possesses 180 A-10 Warthog ground attack craft. However, they are very slow and easy to shoot down. For an invesment of $3 billion, could you upgrade the propulsion systems of these A-10's so that they will be faster and more maneuverable, thus increasing survivability and deadliness?

VA is most certainly interested in the proposed use of the 10mm Auto. The weapon is currently used by the Verghastan army, and the General Staff have expressed their wishes for a round with better penetration. We would like fifty weapons (Which VA will supply) to be modified to fire 10mm Auto, and the cost is unimportant.
The Holy Womble Arms will gladly modify the weapons for you. Conversion cost is estimated at 200$ per weapon. As soon as we receive money and the guns themselves, work will begin.

However, we suspect that you have gotten a little confused as for which caliber you want, so we felt the need to clarify:

10mm Auto and SP10 are two different calibers. The 10mm Auto cartridge has ballistics superior to .357 Magnum, which gives it excellent stopping power and longer range than most conventional handgun/submachine gun calibers. However, if it is armor penetration you are looking for, the SP10 is a better choice because of the bullet design. Please clarify which caliber you wish your weapons rechambered into.

Kreynoria']At the moment, our air force possesses 180 A-10 Warthog ground attack craft. However, they are very slow and easy to shoot down. For an invesment of $3 billion, could you upgrade the propulsion systems of these A-10's so that they will be faster and more maneuverable, thus increasing survivability and deadliness?
To be honest, we did not work with aircrafts before, and have very little experience in the area. After the initial fact checking on A-10 Warthog, it appears to us that the plane was deliberately designed to operate at low speeds. After all, Warthog is designed for attacking ground targets with weapons such as the GAU-8/A 30mm Gatling Gun, and excessive speed would greatly reduce this weapon's effectiveness. However, your request will be considered. It is possible that the combat effectiveness of A-10 Warthog could be increased in ways other than modifying propulsion systems- such as designing better weapons. We could, for example, replace the Gatling Gun with an automatic version of our IRFT-3 Rocket Flame Thrower (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424891&page=1&pp=15), allowing your Warthog to launch volleys of 93mm thermobaric rockets. The power of these advanced munitions rivals that of 105mm artillery shells, transforming your Warthog from a flying minigun into a flying heavy artillery battery. However, installing such an upgrade on all 180 planes may turn out to be more expensive than the proposed $3 billion.

Alternatively, we could install a new missile detection system that would automatically spot any projectiles moving in your plane's direction and activate flares or any other defense mechanism that can divert a rocket from its course.

Blah, blah, blah, SP10.

As you recommended, the SP10 round has been requested by the Verghastinselheer General Staff. Assuming the charge is the same, the transfer has been authorised. Account details are attached, please confirm.

As you recommended, the SP10 round has been requested by the Verghastinselheer General Staff. Assuming the charge is the same, the transfer has been authorised. Account details are attached, please confirm.
Confirmation has been sent. The work will begin shortly. All weapons will be modified and shipped back in 2 to 4 months (OOC- counting one RL day for one NS year). SP10 ammunition from the Holy Womble Arms is also avaliable for sale. Purchase of a manufacturing license can also be negotiated.