NationStates Jolt Archive


Re-thinking The East (Open)

RomeW
02-06-2005, 08:16
OOC1: Continued from this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=418186) thread.

IC:

Today was going to be Consul Valerius Maderia's special day- or so he hoped. Having organized one of the largest conferences in Roman history, Maderia was beeming with confidence, although that could just be the six large cups of coffee that he had before the conference. It wasn't easy- after Roman Emperor assigned him with the duty of organizing a conference in the Curia dealing with the dreaded "Eastern Question", Maderia spent all day phoning and E-Mailing all the various leaders and/or "important people" that best represented the East's many peoples and cultures, and spent the next few days receiving their confirmations. He was fortunate to get everyone important, and, despite having difficulties scheduling the perfect day for it, he was happy everyone made it to the Curia that day.

A total of 18 individuals- some of them the world's most prominent leaders such as Palestine's Mahmoud Abbas, Ottoman Sultan Ertugrul Osman V, Judea's Simon Benamin, Assyria's Shalmaneser Baradin II and Pontus' Alex Simaonese- turned out for the event, which was to start at 10AM and would need the next two weeks to finish (or so Maderia thought). However, by the time Maderia got to his seat in the conference hall most of the leaders had already arrived, and, predictably, were squabbling with each other.

"Quiet! Order in the house! Order in the house!" stammered Maderia, banging his gavel with enthusiasm. "Man, this is giving me a headache," he said to himself as the almost unbearable din quieted very slowly.

"Okay- I know why you're all here. Roman Emperor Rodin Hartian has stated that he wants to settle the 'problem' of organizing the Eastern portion of the Empire once and for all, and needs your input. A lot of you have independence aspirations, and we in the Imperial court believe they have become too much of an issue that the sooner we deal with it the better. Some of you may choose to remain a part of Rome, and that is fine. However, at the end of our time here, I hope that we can all find common ground and arrange ourselves into an organization that we can all be happy with. Who wants to begin?"

OOC2: Okay, so here's the breakdown. The eastern part of the Roman Empire (most of the eastern Mediterranean seaboard in my modern version) has been reincorporated into Rome for little over seventy years, and, while the Romans have been able to integrate the nations with the rest of the Empire, the East has been the most difficult to organize since its reintegration. It's a very well-connected region (due to the fact that the eastern seaboard has been united for most of its history in RL) but contains many diverse ethnic groups that are difficult to keep in order under the umbrella of one nation state. In my context, some want to remain a part of the Roman State, while others want to be independent. Here's a rundown of the *basics* of the players here:

The Avranites: A Greek-like peoples who in RL move around the entire Balkan Peninsula but here have settled in northern Macedon. Not very well known, but their desire for their own state has become so enormous that they eagerly anticipated this conference's beginning. In essence, they really just want to make a name for themselves on the international scene instead of being bit players, for once.

The Macedonians: In my context, they're a Slavic-Greek mix that actually date back to the ancient Macedonians of Alexander The Great, and, in their view, they've been under the heel of Rome for far too long. Another of those states who are just eager to break free.

The Thessalians: Another Greek peoples, but unlike their Avranite and Macedonian cousins, they just want to be left alone. Hartian just built a new arena in Larissa and thus support for the Romans is at an all-time high in Thessaly, although if the offer is right...

The Achaeans: Residents of the northern Morea, this Greek people already have a state to the south of Roman territory, but they have a considerable minority in the extreme south of Thessaly. They have had a desire to unite that area with their own land for quite some time, they've just never had the opportunity to do so. Factions do exist in their country for Rome to annex them again, because the Greeks have had a soft spot for the Romans ever since they first came into contact with them in the 3rd century BC.

The Ionians: The most unique of the Greek peoples in that they have a strong desire to break free from the Roman State. Ionia in RL has long been under foreign control and thus the Ionians have probably the strongest desire to be independent. The problem? Their location- navagating the Aegean isn't easy and could be even more complicated if they can't extend control off the coastline of Asia Minor. Probably one of the more vocal groups.

The Lydians: Asiatic people with a strong Greek influence, they're normally a peaceful people but they've made noises about independence. They're not as militant as some of the groups here and are probably the most likely to negotiate here.

The Phrygians: Direct Indo-European descendants of their ancient brethren, the Phrygians rival only the Ionians in nationalistic zeal. They're not known for militantcy, but they have been very vocal with their requests for nationhood.

The Pontians: This Greek people of Pontus have a strong desire to remain with the Romans, or to join with Nicaea or Constantinople (both of which are outside of Roman control and have their own states, with Nicaea being an ally of Rome and Constantinople representing the "technical" Eastern Roman Empire). They don't have any independence aspirations at all and would much rather get back to fishing, their main source of income, instead of worrying who will rule over them.

The Galatians: Descendants of the Celtic people with the same name but now considerably Turkified, they're the most fiercely loyal to Rome and will stop at nothing to remain Roman. They only have the problem of geography- being completely landlocked they need to unite themselves with another people or negotiate their way to the coast. That still won't stop them at their goal, however.

The Seljuks: Turkish people in central Anatolia, they're mixed over whether or not they want to remain with Rome. They do, however, want some form of autonomy, however.

The Cilicians: Like the Pontians, they'd be happy remaining with Rome, but their concern is making sure that they don't have hostile neighbours. Being close to one of the more nationalistic groups- the Ottomans- they need assurances that they won't be threatened if those groups gain independence. Most likely to try to maintain some semblance of the unity of the Eastern portion of the Empire and the most likely to press for an alliance of states if such were to come up.

The Ottomans: The largest of the groups and the most vocal. Under Roman "protection" for seventy years (what gave the Romans the East in the first place), Hartian recently granted them independence around the city of Malatya in the far eastern corner of the Empire. Sultan Ertugrul Osman V (who is actually the current head of the Ottoman family in RL) is eager to add to his land, however. (Zeeeland)

The Arabs: They’re largely indifferent over who rules over them, being most content with Roman rule, although if the Ottomans wanted to include them in their state they would probably accept because of the cultural similarities. They are more concerned about their economic situation, however, since Syria- where most of the Arabs reside in the Empire- is in desperate need of attention, and are desperate to see that the Romans follow up on their plan to invest heavily in the province.

The Assyrians: They have a small minority in Syria, but have a more powerful state right next to it. They’re on good terms with the Romans, but the minority in Syria does wish to re-unite back with the main state.

The Maronites: A Christian group that lives in RL Lebanon, they’ve been pressing for more autonomy from Rome, but don’t want to separate themselves completely from Rome. If Rome gives them independence- their ultimate goal- they hope that they can remain allies.

The Palestinians: A distinct Arabic group in the region of Palestine, they have long dreamed of their own state, or at least “client state” status within the Roman Empire. Above all else they want Jerusalem, and regardless of how they’re organized they will stop at nothing to get at the city. (The Lightning Star)

The Jews: Already having their own independent state in Hebron (the original Jewish capital before David took Jerusalem), they have long coveted Jerusalem, and, like the Palestinians, will stop at nothing to get the city. They also long to have a bit of the Palestinian coast, especially Tel-Aviv. (Lanquassia)

The Gazans: Arabic-type people who have developed into their own distinct culture and people. Very nationalistic and will want to set up its own state around the city of Gaza, with a passing interest at Jerusalem. (Golgu-Shanaat)

The Egyptians: Mixed, but after literally millennia of being under foreign rule, they’re at least curious to have their own state. They’re also the best organized and most likely to be the most successful and united state if they do gain independence.

The Constantinopolitans: These are what we better know as "the Byzantines", but they get this name because "Byzantium" was only an invention of historians in the 16th century- "Byzantines" would never have heard of the term. Naming reasoning aside, the Constantinopolitans are culturally Greek (more specifically Greek Orthodox) but are technically a "Greco-Roman" state, representing the actual "Eastern Roman Empire" that came into being on the deathbed of Theodosius I in 395. However, despite their political connections, there is a deep-seated hatred between the two states, due mainly to religion: in Rome, freedom of religion is upheld and enforced, while Constantinople is an effective Eastern Orthodox theocracy. Politically they spare the vitriol lashed out by their respective commoners because deep down inside both want to reunite the Old Roman Empire, but the divisions so far run too deep for that to happen. The Constantinopolitans- a highly nationalistic people- also have a desire to rule all of their former territories and restore Constantinople to the "greatness" it once had.

Finally, the map:

http://www.geocities.com/dadothegreat2003/RomanEast.png

(Stripes mean that the area is mixed ethnically with the two or three different groups adjacent to the area. The blue lines denote rough “ethnic” boundaries, the black lines indicate provincial boundaries (except in the case of “Turkey” which is a representation of their state), the Arial script indicates the ethnic group present in the area not represented by a provincial name, the Roman script indicates provincial and city names and the green areas represent the areas outside of the “Roman East” region)

Named leaders:

Ertugrul Osman V- the Ottoman Sultan and the actual head of the Ottoman family (he’s a cab driver in RL)

Mahmoud Abbas- the Palestinian leader. Yeah, another RL person, but I figure that since he’s basically playing the same role in RL he’d be a perfect fit for here.

Simon Benamin- King of Judea

Shalmaneser Baradin II- The Great King of Assyria

Alex Simaonese- Pontus’ Provincial Governor

I will leave this open in case anyone wants to assume any characters here (with the freedom to come up with their own leaders except where the leader has been named here)- just remember the basics surrounding your people.

Please post OOCly here first if you want to participate.

Thanks.
The Lightning Star
02-06-2005, 13:01
OOC: Even though you kinda put odd thingers for certain groups(Pontus invaded Rome and didn't surrender until Pompey had pwned all their soldiers...

after three wars), it looks coolz0rz.
RomeW
02-06-2005, 22:41
OOC: Even though you kinda put odd thingers for certain groups(Pontus invaded Rome and didn't surrender until Pompey had pwned all their soldiers...

after three wars), it looks coolz0rz.

OOC: Well, I do have my reasons (for example, historically the Arabs were NOT nationalist- they only got that way as soon as they met the Europeans), and besides, I want to twist a few things just to keep things interesting (because not *every* ethnic group wants to establish their own state). Concerning Pontus specifically: I know about Mithridates and his conflicts with Rome, but considering Pontus was Greek and that the Greeks did not really "mind" Roman rule so much (Polybius even went so far as to write reasons why the Greeks should accept Roman rule), most likely a "modern" Pontus would want to stay with Rome.

Though do you want to come in or not? I'll need others to RP with here as the different groups, because I can't do it all by myself.
The Lightning Star
03-06-2005, 03:12
OOC: I'll be the Palestinians.
RomeW
03-06-2005, 05:09
OOC: I'll be the Palestinians.

OOC: Thanks. I forgot to mention it earlier, but the region of Palestine will be one of the conference's main issues, since each group is at each other's throats and all and the Romans really don't want a mess to erupt if they leave.
The Lightning Star
03-06-2005, 12:58
OOC: Thanks. I forgot to mention it earlier, but the region of Palestine will be one of the conference's main issues, since each group is at each other's throats and all and the Romans really don't want a mess to erupt if they leave.

OOC: WEEeeee!
RomeW
06-06-2005, 04:36
OOC: I'm going to leave this open for a week to see if anyone else wants to get involved. Afterwards, I'll just proceed with what I have.
The Lightning Star
06-06-2005, 12:46
OOC: I'm going to leave this open for a week to see if anyone else wants to get involved. Afterwards, I'll just proceed with what I have.

OOC: Mmmmkay.
Zeeeland
07-06-2005, 03:55
This is very cool. im interested.. Rome W you seem to have a penchant for Ancient history.....? is this true? :)

Yeh il join. Il be the Ottomans. :)
RomeW
07-06-2005, 05:26
This is very cool. im interested.. Rome W you seem to have a penchant for Ancient history.....? is this true? :)

Yeh il join. Il be the Ottomans. :)

I'm more interested in ancient history than modern, mainly because there's more of a "mythical" element to it, but I'm interested in all elements. I use a lot of ancient names because that's what the Romans would use to describe the areas (mainly because the Romans are a traditionalist society), but several of the peoples in the area are there because they emerged later in history, such as the Seljuks, the Ottomans, the Maronites (a Christian group in Lebanon), the Arabs, etc. It's really a hodge-podge in there and hopefully it will be fun.

*Continued bump*
RomeW
16-06-2005, 06:18
I shall bump this in the hopes I'll get more people wanting to participate, because I really want to get this thing going.
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 06:31
If you want, I can take Isreal...

Question, who currently holds Jerusalem, and has Isreal/Judah ever held Jerusalem.
Sharina
16-06-2005, 06:38
OOC:

RomeW, I'm curious about this RP. I have a few questions if you don't mind?

1. Is this set in Classical Roman Times? (0 AD - 500 AD)

2. If not, what era is this in?

3. What's the backstory behind this RP? (any alternate history stuff)

4. Would it be possible to introduce interesting foreign powers, like China, Aztecs, or Inca?
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 06:51
Just to point out from what I gathered...

It looks like an alternate history with modern technology, where someone managed to reunited the Western Roman Empire and cow the Eastern to accept that the West was in charge... to a degree. The current fragmentation of the East is the issue trying to be solved.

The West doesn't have the problem of fragmentation, as while they are seperate and diverse peoples, nearly civilization beyond tribal lines was influenced by being conquered by Rome, and their societies and governments were Romanized and have that common thread between them.

However, the West isn't as nearly as populated or as wealthy as the East. Western Civilization started with Egypt and Mesopotamia, and thats where the money and history were, thats where Alexander sought his empire, and thats the direction the Romans went when they wanted to bring more civilized peoples under their heel.

The Eastern peoples have their own histories that go back to before the village of Rome was ever founded, and in the case of several, most notably Egypt and the various Greek peoples, were mighty civilizations and empires in their own rights.

Further complicating the situation is the existance, just beyond the eastern borderof the Roman Empire, of The Empire of Iran and Not-Iran, aka Persia, Rome's only true rival until the Arab explosion.

Also giving a bit of a problem is the implied existance of a Byzantine state based on Constantinople, which may be able to claim some loyalty amoung the Eastern proto-nations, and I note is absent from this conferance.

China is too far away to be of any influence in this particular situation, and India is usually too fragmented for any single empire on that continent to meddle, and would be more inclined to fudge about with Persia.

To the West, there's nothing aside from Scotland, the Germans, Scandanavia.

South, there's Meroe, Nubia, and Axum.

To the North, Russia. Possibly Mongolia, as well.
RomeW
16-06-2005, 07:36
OOC:

RomeW, I'm curious about this RP. I have a few questions if you don't mind?

Okay, here are the answers:

1. Is this set in Classical Roman Times? (0 AD - 500 AD) No

2. If not, what era is this in? Modern. I use some ancient names because the Romans are traditionalist in nature and probably would have always known those lands by those names, but some areas- like "Palestine"- are modern.

3. What's the backstory behind this RP? (any alternate history stuff) It's an alternate reality, one where Rome survives in an "altered" state to the present day. Basically, the Western Empire survived from the brink and has slowly regained its former glory, but it hasn't been easy- with the influx of new cultures (such as Islam) integration becomes a nightmare. I also RP with the idea that "East and West" (Constantinople and Rome, respectively) are still "divided", even though Constantinople's lands are but a tiny fraction of what it used to have. In fact, I've expanded the re-unification question to include Trebizond (which was in fact a province of Constantinople even after the city itself actually fell in 1461) and Nicaea, with the Ottomans themselves on the periphery of the question because Mehmed II actually claimed the title "Roman Caesar" in 1453 shortly after capturing Constantinople- a fact I keep here but twist it so that the Constantinopolitans get a shanty town on the Black Sea coast and become a vassal shortly after 1453. Talks have occurred in the past to effectively reunite "Old Rome" once and for all, but deep-seated hatred still exists in small but vocal factions in every state (for example, the Romans are still bitter about how Justinian tried to force their version of Christianity on them and how Constantinople "gave up" on them shortly after Justinian's death, and the Constantinopolitans are still bitter that the Romans allow paganism to remain (as I think would have happened if Rome "came back" right before it actually fell in 476, because the old Senatorial families would have pressed for its return and because the massive reform needed to continue the state probably would have agreed that fighting paganism might have led to the destruction of the Empire and that would have to be corrected)).

For this thread, the basic idea is this- a 1910 agreement between the Ottomans and the Romans allowed the Ottoman Empire to be absorbed into the Roman State as a "protectorate", on the basis of the unification question I outlined earlier. The protectorate agreement has turned into effective Roman annexation, which has angered a lot of the nationalistic groups in the area. So the Emperor- Rodin Hartian- called a conference to see how to reorganize this mess into a workable state (or series of states) that won't revolt. The Romans also continue to have territories in much of France, Western Germany and Belgium, from which I've added Holland and Denmark (as well as colonies all over the world such as SW US, Venezuela, Siberia and Polynesia), and those lands are firmly loyal to Rome (on the basis that Western Europe is effectively united). I should also state that Rome has become democratic (the Emperor now gets elected) and is fiercely liberal, on the idea that Roman society has always been based on "honour" and fairness and today that would mean democracy, liberty and equality (which have been implemented in practice as well as legally). My country is basically an experiment seeing how the a "Classical" nation would function in the present (with its new realities in everything, not just politically), which has become a complicated but fun guessing game.[/b]

4. Would it be possible to introduce interesting foreign powers, like China, Aztecs, or Inca? I conceived this in a grander idea of how I'd envision the world to look like, and in that world, I don't have the Incas and the Mongols rule over China. Having said that, if you want to have a foreign power, I need a reason for them to be here- do they have interests in the region that they need to protect? The only foreign groups I could think of not being here that should are Constantinople, Nicaea and Trebizond, on the basis that re-unification with Rome is a hot topic in the political scene of both nations, and Serbia, on the basis that they have lands that border Rome's. However, give me an idea and I'll consider it.

I hope that helps.

If you want, I can take Isreal...

Question, who currently holds Jerusalem, and has Isreal/Judah ever held Jerusalem.

I will need someone to RP as the Jews so that I can properly have a (verbal) conflict between the Palestinians and Judeans (who are Jewish) over Jerusalem at the conference, so if you want to take on Judea, please do so. I want to make Jerusalem one of the conference's focal points because the Romans are concerned that if they withdraw violence will erupt between the Palestinans and Jews over who actually gets to own the city, and Rome wants to avoid that (basically the Romans are trying to avoid the situation that is erupting now in Palestine proper).

Rome still owns Israel, but in this context received it back only recently, in 1910, from the unification with the Ottomans I outlined earlier. I've edited the Zionist story so that Hebron becomes the Zionists' destination, not Tel-Aviv, and that the Zionists create a state that represents present-day southern Jordan. I have not edited earlier history whereby the United Kingdom of David and the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah existed, because they were before the actual Roman period, thus meaning that the Zionists can still (and do) make extensive claims for Jerusalem. Under renewed Roman rule, Jerusalem has become a cosmopolitan and ethnically diverse city that's been freely accessed and accessible to all (from Jews to Christians to Muslims to pagans to other religious groups), but that atmosphere may be threatened if Rome withdraws.
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 07:47
Well, I'll take whatever Hebrew people that would be at the conferance, then.

But be aware that one of the goals would be the unification of a single Jewish state :D
RomeW
16-06-2005, 07:51
Just to point out from what I gathered...

It looks like an alternate history with modern technology, where someone managed to reunited the Western Roman Empire and cow the Eastern to accept that the West was in charge... to a degree. The current fragmentation of the East is the issue trying to be solved.

The West doesn't have the problem of fragmentation, as while they are seperate and diverse peoples, nearly civilization beyond tribal lines was influenced by being conquered by Rome, and their societies and governments were Romanized and have that common thread between them.

However, the West isn't as nearly as populated or as wealthy as the East. Western Civilization started with Egypt and Mesopotamia, and thats where the money and history were, thats where Alexander sought his empire, and thats the direction the Romans went when they wanted to bring more civilized peoples under their heel.

The Eastern peoples have their own histories that go back to before the village of Rome was ever founded, and in the case of several, most notably Egypt and the various Greek peoples, were mighty civilizations and empires in their own rights.

Further complicating the situation is the existance, just beyond the eastern borderof the Roman Empire, of The Empire of Iran and Not-Iran, aka Persia, Rome's only true rival until the Arab explosion.

Also giving a bit of a problem is the implied existance of a Byzantine state based on Constantinople, which may be able to claim some loyalty amoung the Eastern proto-nations, and I note is absent from this conferance.

China is too far away to be of any influence in this particular situation, and India is usually too fragmented for any single empire on that continent to meddle, and would be more inclined to fudge about with Persia.

To the West, there's nothing aside from Scotland, the Germans, Scandanavia.

South, there's Meroe, Nubia, and Axum.

To the North, Russia. Possibly Mongolia, as well.

Well, half-right. In my case, the West is now more wealthy than the East because I'm using RL stats to base my nation around, and in RL, the West IS more wealthy than the East. It also makes sense too- the West has been more or less united in this scenario for over 2000 years, so it'd make sense that under unity it'd develop a strong economy. The East has only been recently been brought back into Imperial control and that transition has not been easy, so the Romans are quickly pressing the "abort" button and re-evaluating the situation here.

In my view, I've dropped Iran as a rival to Rome on the basis that geographically it is difficult to maintain, and because I've revived an Assyrian state that's blocking the Persians' access to the Roman border. The Romans' main rivals are now the British, who I've made escape reconquest on the basis that culturally the British have always been a little distant from the Continent and because, well, I like the British so I want to keep them around too (though I do have the Romans in modern-day Ireland (or, in the Romans' words, "Hibernia") now). There is also a state bordering the Romans in NW Gaul centred out of Orleans (who have become Roman allies) and I maintain the French in Paris, but only in Paris and a few coastal cities west of Normandy. Rome is also now allied with two German tribes- the Vandals and the Visigoths (as might have happened if the Roman State wanted to re-emerge from the 5th century rubble), who are still in the areas they took from Rome back in the 5th century, but Rome also has now what used to be West Germany, the Low Countries and Denmark.

To the south of Egypt are the Nubians, who I dub "Ethiopians" because that's what the Egyptians called them. I've also given the Romans Ethopia proper, because the Italians actually occupied the country in RL (though I might revive Axum...hmmmnnnn).

Other than that, you have it. *thumbs up*

Well, I'll take whatever Hebrew people that would be at the conferance, then.

But be aware that one of the goals would be the unification of a single Jewish state

Go right ahead. I want conflict. :D (well, as long as I don't have to drag Rome the city into this...)
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 07:57
I'll be awaiting the signal to start, then.
RomeW
16-06-2005, 08:04
I'm aiming for next week- I certainly want to get this started before next Saturday. By the way, Lanquassia, you have been officially given the group "the Jews" (or Judea).
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 08:20
Judea it is.

Does this mean control over all the Jewish peoples - actually, better to say Hebrew peoples, by the time period your emulating I think there's another Jewish state around where they aint Hebrew - or just the ones outside the direct control of Rome?
RomeW
16-06-2005, 08:36
Judea it is.

Does this mean control over all the Jewish peoples - actually, better to say Hebrew peoples, by the time period your emulating I think there's another Jewish state around where they aint Hebrew - or just the ones outside the direct control of Rome?

Technically no but practically yes. Technically, Judea just rules over all the Jews who are not in the direct control of Rome, but practically speaking it upholds itself as "the" Jewish state, in much the same manner that RL Israel does today. So you'd be allowed to think that you represent "all" Jews.

(I do want to ask where you get Jewish/Hebrew thing from though- I'm confused).
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 08:54
Jew - Someone who believes in Judaism
Hebrew - A member of an ethnic group from the middle east with traditions going back thousands of years, traditions that are for the most part, taken from Judaism.

Jewish is a Religion.
Hebrew is the Ethnicity.

I'm not Jewish IRL, but I am Hebrew.
RomeW
16-06-2005, 09:04
Jew - Someone who believes in Judaism
Hebrew - A member of an ethnic group from the middle east with traditions going back thousands of years, traditions that are for the most part, taken from Judaism.

Jewish is a Religion.
Hebrew is the Ethnicity.

I'm not Jewish IRL, but I am Hebrew.

Interesting. Not what I originally thought, but we'll use it- captures the idea better. I like the way you think.
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 09:18
So, just to summerize the situation - IN AND ABOUT THE PROVINCES of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, and Judea -

The Jewish state of Hebron (In my mind, Judea) is outside the direct control of Rome, and is its own nation.

The Province of Judea (In my mind, and listed on the map as Isreal) is nominally Jewish.

Palestinia (In Lebanon, North Isreal, West Syria) also wants control of the region, specifically Jerusalem. As does Hebron.

Don't worry, I'll sort it out... To someone's pain and headache.
RomeW
16-06-2005, 09:25
So, just to summerize the situation - IN AND ABOUT THE PROVINCES of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, and Judea -

(Just answering here, and you can use "Hebrew" to describe your people, if you want)

The Jewish state of Hebron (In my mind, Judea) is outside the direct control of Rome, and is its own nation. Yes. I've also extended Judea to control Aqaba and modern-day southern Jordan.

The Province of Judea (In my mind, and listed on the map as Isreal) is nominally Jewish. Quasi. The Gaza Strip is still Arabic.

Palestinia (In Lebanon, North Isreal, West Syria) also wants control of the region, specifically Jerusalem. As does Hebron. Yes. The Gazans also have a passing interest in Jerusalem.

I think you have it.
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 09:35
Well, then, I know a possible answer...

...but it'd take a Roman in order to suggest it. A Western Roman, for that matter, not one influenced by the Byzantine Emperor's style of Asiatic God-Kings.

If you don't mind, I'll summerize the situation for Hebron's foreign policy stated goals:

All of Judea, as a matter of course. The people there are Jewish, they should all join in the Jewish State as God's chosen people.

Northern Historic Isreal. Willing to dicker with Palestine for this, in return for possibly lands in Trans-Jordan.

Gaza, Hebron is willing to form an alliance and close partnership with any nation that will arise from Gaza.

Jerusalem. Its in the religion. Every year at Rosh Hassanah(I'm taking liberties, and saying the Jewish New Year. It might be another holiday I'm not familier with) the final toast is, "And Next Year, Jerusalem!" A legacy of the Exodus. More than cultural and religious statements, several Hebronese leaders have said they will stop at nothing from acquiring Jerusalem, should the opportunity arise.

To everything outside the borders of its attention, Hebron has only a passing care. Hebron could really care less about the Empire as a whole, as they have never considered themselves Roman, nor were they ever Romanized, or ever intergrated into any other culture, society, or religion.
RomeW
16-06-2005, 09:47
Well, then, I know a possible answer...

...but it'd take a Roman in order to suggest it. A Western Roman, for that matter, not one influenced by the Byzantine Emperor's style of Asiatic God-Kings.

Oh, Consul Valerius Maderia is DEFINITELY a Western Roman, as are most Romans who are of the view that Constantinople is "some hick town where they do things the wrong way", just like how the Constantinopolitans view the Romans- the hatred, thus, is mutual :D .

(I should also mention for this thread the name "Byzantium" does not exist, because that's not what their people actually called their nation- "Byzantine" was a name invented in the 16th century by a German historian about a century after the Fall of Constantinople and would appear alien to the people of the time. Thus, I use "Constantinopolitan" to describe someone from what we know as "Byzantium". I should also mention that, for this thread, the Romans are not hated by the Hebrews and Arabs on the basis that they're not of the type who'd meddle with their affairs.)

If you don't mind, I'll summerize the situation for Hebron's foreign policy stated goals:

All of Judea, as a matter of course. The people there are Jewish, they should all join in the Jewish State as God's chosen people.

Northern Historic Isreal. Willing to dicker with Palestine for this, in return for possibly lands in Trans-Jordan.

Gaza, Hebron is willing to form an alliance and close partnership with any nation that will arise from Gaza.

Jerusalem. Its in the religion. Every year at Rosh Hassanah(I'm taking liberties, and saying the Jewish New Year. It might be another holiday I'm not familier with) the final toast is, "And Next Year, Jerusalem!" A legacy of the Exodus. More than cultural and religious statements, several Hebronese leaders have said they will stop at nothing from acquiring Jerusalem, should the opportunity arise.

To everything outside the borders of its attention, Hebron has only a passing care. Hebron could really care less about the Empire as a whole, as they have never considered themselves Roman, nor were they ever Romanized, or ever intergrated into any other culture, society, or religion.

Not at all. In fact, I like that you've thought this out- I'm thankful because I really want conflict between the Hebrews and the Palestinians. Just remember to RP this out once the conference begins.
Sharina
16-06-2005, 09:54
RomeW, I might be interested in participating in this RP.

I was wondering if I could RP as the Incas. I have an idea how to set up an alternate history for the Incas should I be allowed to RP them here...

Assuming England, Spain, France, etc. never "formed" and sent conquest fleets / colonization efforts in the New World, the Incas / Aztecs would have developed into a larger and better empire. Their areas grow overpopulated so they expand into other areas, like California, the Mid-West, New England, Argentina, Brazil, Caribbean Islands, etc. By 1900, the Incas / Aztecs begin asking "What lies beyond the Great Water?" and then send ships to explore the Atlantic. They find Africa first, then learn about your Romans, then reach Europe.

I could merge the two empires (Aztecs and Incas), via war or some kind of poliical coup.

I have always wondered how things would have turned out if the Aztecs or Incas had actually come to Europe instead of the other way around. I think this would offer a very interesting RP idea... the Romans meeting the Incas / Aztecs. Then there could be some kind of "jockeying" as the Romans want Africa, while my Aztec-Inca empire wants Africa as well.

Interesting idea, yeah?
Lanquassia
16-06-2005, 09:57
Heh, all I did was fluff it out a bit.

As for Byzantine/Constantinople, the hard part is that West, East, they both called themselves Roman.

I'll uze Byzantine for OOC, but I'll try to use your terms IC.

As for remembering to do fight IC :D

No worries.
RomeW
16-06-2005, 10:32
RomeW, I might be interested in participating in this RP.

I was wondering if I could RP as the Incas. I have an idea how to set up an alternate history for the Incas should I be allowed to RP them here...

Assuming England, Spain, France, etc. never "formed" and sent conquest fleets / colonization efforts in the New World, the Incas / Aztecs would have developed into a larger and better empire. Their areas grow overpopulated so they expand into other areas, like California, the Mid-West, New England, Argentina, Brazil, Caribbean Islands, etc. By 1900, the Incas / Aztecs begin asking "What lies beyond the Great Water?" and then send ships to explore the Atlantic. They find Africa first, then learn about your Romans, then reach Europe.

I could merge the two empires (Aztecs and Incas), via war or some kind of poliical coup.

I have always wondered how things would have turned out if the Aztecs or Incas had actually come to Europe instead of the other way around. I think this would offer a very interesting RP idea... the Romans meeting the Incas / Aztecs. Then there could be some kind of "jockeying" as the Romans want Africa, while my Aztec-Inca empire wants Africa as well.

Interesting idea, yeah?

Though I like the idea, I'm trying to keep this RP strictly about the conference and about the East, so I'd like to keep out anything that has to deal directly with the West. I'd also like to maintain the nations of Britain and France for the purposes of the RP (though not their colonial Empires in full) because I like those nations (and because I think the "effect" of it being a "modern" RP is enhanced, but that's just me), although I've replaced the Spaniards with the Visigoths and Vandals (who are Roman allies now and what helped the Romans escape the 5th century in the first place). Thus, you could say, the Spanish invasions of the New World never did happen and the Aztecs and Incas could thus survive, and perhaps unite. In my vision of the world, I created an African powerhouse named Casara (a large state located in much of NW Africa) but have not figured out their origins or their culture or anything other than that they're a powerful African state (and I also envision them as Roman allies).

Thus, if you're willing to play along, the Casarans become the Inca state transplated in Africa. I figure that they could be Roman allies on the basis that both are essentially democratic in nature (the Inca Empire was a federalist system), but they are interested in gaining a foothold somewhere in the East, which is why they're here. You just need to know where in the East they want to go and any reasons why that area is best for them take it from there.

EDIT- I'm off to bed right now. I might be gone tommorow night and definitely Friday night, so if you don't hear from me soon, that's why.

EDIT2- Another thought I had- would the Byzantines eventually call themselves "Byzantine" if they survived to today? I'm thinking this because when nationalism "appeared" in the 19th century, Byzantines may have realized that their city was actually originally called "Byzantion" (Latin "Byzantium") and use that name to describe their country and themselves. This would not be inconceivable considering that nationalists were very adept at history because they wanted to use it prove their country's status as a glorious nation and one that needs to exist.
RomeW
19-06-2005, 08:38
Bump.

Service Announcement: I am going to be adding a new group, The Constantinopolitans, to the Conference, because they deserve to be here. Simply put, they're the Byzantines- "Constantinopolitan" is (more likely) the proper name for their citizens.
RomeW
24-06-2005, 07:41
*bumpty*
Golgu-Shanaat
24-06-2005, 13:00
May I join? I will be the Gazans!
RomeW
25-06-2005, 06:42
May I join? I will be the Gazans!

Cool. Sure.

*More people still needed*
Lanquassia
25-06-2005, 07:27
OOC:

Well, we have the Palestinians, the Gazans, and the Hebrews...

And an answer to everything that would take a Western Roman to figure out... although I'm tempted to mention it OOC...

...but we've the people to begin THAT little quandry.
RomeW
25-06-2005, 07:42
OOC:

Well, we have the Palestinians, the Gazans, and the Hebrews...

And an answer to everything that would take a Western Roman to figure out... although I'm tempted to mention it OOC...

...but we've the people to begin THAT little quandry.

OOC: I'm curious as to what you think that the Western Romans would think. I won't tell you if you're right or wrong, though.

Also, do you think we should leave this thread as an OOC signup for the main conference and start a new thread for this question in particular, since we have enough to start something like that?
Lanquassia
25-06-2005, 08:12
Up to you, although I'd suggest keep one IC thread and one OOC thread.

We'll just bump the subject of the provinces of the Holy Lands to the forefront.

I'll mail you in-game with the best possible situation.
RomeW
25-06-2005, 08:29
Up to you, although I'd suggest keep one IC thread and one OOC thread.

We'll just bump the subject of the provinces of the Holy Lands to the forefront.

I'll mail you in-game with the best possible situation.

OOC: Okay, well, we can start a general IC thread then, and just leave this as OOC.

EDIT- IC thread up and running here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9131462#post9131462
RomeW
29-06-2005, 06:41
*bump* for sign-ups.
Lanquassia
06-07-2005, 03:58
Drink Jeru-cola, THE Soft-drink of the Holy City!