NationStates Jolt Archive


Zealous class Super Dreadnought

The Macabees
30-05-2005, 19:47
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[Zealous class Super Dreadnought]

[Abstract]
Prior naval strategy of the Golden Throne's Kriegsmarine had generally shunned the idea of the incorporation of a Super Dreadnought. However, due the rescent construction of the Elusive class Battleship it became of little consequence that a much larger dreadnought was developed. Nonetheless, the aim of said construction remained pride, especially in the area that the Second Empire of the Golden Throne could also build a Super Dreadnought worthy of any seas.

Consequently, in 2007 Emperor Jonach I awarded three seperate naval companies, under the conglomerate of Kriegzimmer, thirteen trillion United States Dollars over the time period of five years to begin the research of a new type of Super Dreadnought. When the end of the money suply came, in 2012, Emperor Jonach I awarded another thirteen trillion and another five years to complete the Super Dreadnought. Consequently, the year 2017 saw the unveiling of the Zealous class Super Dreadnought.

The designers of the Zealous class had taken in mind every single major Super Dreadnought that had preceded the construction of the latest, and had decided to attempt to overstep the others, and construct one that would take the lead in technology and effectiveness. Furthermore, it was decided that the new Super Dreadnought would not be one to be hoarded by the Golden Throne, but instead widely exported.

Indeed, the ten years of research and design saw the evolvement of already existant technology, of which little has changed, and was placed on the Zealous class almost exactly the same as it was placed on some conventional dreadnoughts, such as the Elusive class. However, on the other hand, the Zealous class also saw the designing of technology never before seen on the battlefield in scope, including electrical systems that were far beyond any other systems on any other ship in any other navy, including better RADARs, better SODARs, and other electronics.

Moreover, in the designing of the ship engineers attempted to weigh the results of overwhelming fire power, and self defense. The result, hopefully, was a ship that could both provide massive fire support to its battle fleet, and yet still defend itself from enemy aerial, naval or missile attacks. In short, it was designed to not be detrimental to any fleet that possessed its power.

[Hull Construction]
The overriding compound used in the Zealous’ armor is steel, however, in order to reduce the effects of sulfur in steel, the steel is also laced with Manganese fibers. Manganese is a rather common element used extensively in steel manufacture. It is only mildly chemically active, but it has a great affinity for Sulfur, which it combines readily with, and it thus can be used to eliminate Sulfur from steel or to reduce the effects of any remaining Sulfur by chemically combining with it, which is important since Sulfur softens steel and is not desired in any construction or armor steel that I am familiar with, though it is used in many steels needing to be soft for ease of machining, as on a lathe (Phosphorus has a similar effect on increasing machineability and it can harden steel, but it raises the temperature where brittle failure sets in, so it is also reduced to a minimum in naval construction and armor steels, allowing Manganese to lower this temperature, as mentioned previously). It also acts to increase the hardenability of low-Carbon steel much better than Silicon (see above) does, but does not help keep the hardened metal hard during tempering as Silicon does, which is one of the major reasons that it and Silicon are used together as a team. Usually used in amounts of about 0.4% by weight in armor steels containing other hardeners such as Chromium, it is used in amounts of 0.6-1.1% (depending on plate thickness) in Mild/Medium Steels used for construction and up to 1.3% in high-strength construction steels, such as HTS and "D"-Steel.

Teamed up with Manganese are silicone fibers. Silicon is the next most widely used element with Iron after Carbon, found in almost all Iron materials used as armor or construction material. It is very plentiful, making up most of quartz beach sand, it is used by some microscopic plants and animals to build their protective shells, and it is used by people to make such things as glass and, more recently, micro-electronic circuits. It is relatively chemically inert, though it will chemically combine with Oxygen to form a very inert thin protective film that prevents any further reactions, and usually it is a good heat and electric insulator.

Third, Vanadium composites are woven around the steel compound in order to further strengthen the armor composite. Vanadium is a hardening alloy element in steel that is much stronger in its effects than either Chromium or Molybdenum (see above). Resists "metal fatigue" from repeated loading below the nominal yield strength, which can cause the metal to gradually stretch out of shape ("creep"), so it is widely used in springs in small amounts.

Fourth, titanium and depleted uranium threads are interwoven with the rest of the composite, adding final layers of strength. The titanium also works along with a polymer composite material in order to reduce the magnetic signature of the ship – although, this is not a primary goal of the armor. With the inclusion of titanium, depleted uranium, vanadium, manganese and silicone the actual rolled homogenous armor readings are much higher than what they are, especially since the entire armor scheme is laced around a polymer matrix, multiplying RHA strength even more!

The main belt armor has a literal reading of one thousand two hundred and seventy millimeters [1,270mm – 50 in.], while the turret faceplates yield one thousand three hundred millimeters [1,300mm - 51.181102 in.]. The main turrets boast an armored reading of one thousand millimeters [1,000mm - 39.370079 in.] while the secondary turrets yield nine hundred millimeters [900mm - 35.433071 in.] and the deck armor is layered with eight hundred and fifty millimeters [850mm - 33.464567 in.]. The superstructure yields another eight hundred and fifty millimeters [850mm - 33.464567 in.], while the bulkheads have nine hundred and fifty millimeters worth of the composite armor [950mm - 37.401575 in.]. Actual RHA readings are much, much higher than this – although, they are either extremely classified, or truthfully unknown.

The main armor is designed around an original catamaran design, however, the overall ship is forged through a trimaran hull design. The outer hull, consequently, is armored with a main belt of one thousand millimeters [1,000mm - 39.370079 in.]. According to British sources, trimarans are more resistant to damage; far more resistant. One missile or torpedo will usually disable a modern cruiser, destroyer, or frigate. However, a well-designed trimaran warship can withstand a dozen hits and keep fighting.

[Armament]
Electrothermal-Chemical (ETC) technology is an advanced gun propulsion candidate that can substantially increase gun performance with less system burden than any other advanced gun propulsion technology. t has been under development since the mid 1980s

ETC uses electrical energy to augment and control the release of chemical energy from existing or new propellants, and can significantly improve the performance of existing conventional cannons, both direct fire (e.g. tanks) and indirect fire (e.g. howitzers and Navy guns). The electrical energy is used to create a high-temperature plasma, which in turn both ignites the propellants and controls the release of the chemical energy stored in the propellants during the ballistic cycle.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought wields four quadruple mounts (sixteen guns total) for 30” ETC guns, each having a stock of five hundred rounds. Furthermore, there are six double mounts (twelve guns total) for 5” ETC guns.

There are also three quadruple mounts for 15” rail guns. A basic overview of the rail gun is that it is composed of two copper, or another conductor [ceramic in this case], which are lined with magnets. An electrical current shoots up one rail and then down the other, creating something called the Lorentz Force. The accelerating force between the rails and armature depends on the magnetic field present (which in turn is a product of the rail separation distance and the current through the rails) and on the area this field acts upon. In order for acceleration to be maximized optimum parameters must be chosen for all these variables (and others which will be mentioned later). The rail separation distance was set at twice the electrical breakdown threshold of air at the peak power supply voltage assuming dry at air STP; 6mm. The 2x safety margin was chosen due to dielectric creepage considerations. As far as pulse current is concerned, it can be seen that in order for a high acceleration to occur, VERY high currents must be employed, which in turn requires a high voltage so that circuit impedance can be overcome and the required current can be achieved. The final design is a series of tradeoffs where higher voltages bring higher currents but at the cost of a higher rail separation distance. A typical design utilizes around 4 - 10kV, with higher voltages being used at higher energies. This particular design calls for a 100kiloampere pulse which should be accomplished at 3.2kV. Good part of the many amateur Rail Gun attempts seen on the Internet failed because their power supplies were simply incapable of supplying the currents required; even "small" military and research designs employ currents in the 300KA+ range, with some of the larger guns going over 5 million amperes per pulse. Acceleration drops off quickly with lower currents and at a certain point drag becomes higher than accelerating force and the projectile becomes welded by the resistive heating that occurs. At the same time however, a very high current will cause dramatic rail erosion and resistive losses. The power supply is composed of a LAPS motor-generator running off the various nuclear generators on the ship, then running through a series of over a thousand capacitors, embedded in water, and then through another generator, and finally to the main guns.

The type of propellant used in all cases in a polymer composite weaved around a matrix. Elastomers are usually thermosets (requiring vulcanization) but may also be thermoplastic. The long polymer chains cross-link during curing and account for the flexible nature of the material. The molecular structure of elastomers can be imagined as a 'spaghetti and meatball' structure, with the meatballs signifying cross-links.

Elastomeric behaviour can be explained further by thinking about entropy. Entropy is fundamentally a measure of disorder. In all natural processes, the entropy of the universe increases. Consequently, gasses difuse, heat disapates, and in this case, molecular structures become disorganised. When an elastomer is stretched or pulled, these disorganised chains of molecules straighten up. This is an unnatural condition, and so when the pull/stretching is stopped, the entropy increases as the material returns to its original state.

So, you put that into a matrix. The best polymer-bonded explosive would most likely be PBXN-106, for the usage you want. PBXN-106 is used currently in naval shells. However, If the polymer matrix is an elastomer (rubbery material), it tends to absorb shocks, making the PBX very insensitive to accidental detonation. Meaning, the round will fire when you want it, and it avoids accidently fires and such.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also carried a total of twenty surface to air missile batteries. The Praetorian V is a massive improvement over the Praetorian IV system, which was basically copied off the Bisonic S-500 SAM system. The Praetorian V should provide better accuracy, as well as better quality, to the consumers of this product. Using a twenty rocket launch system, four rows of five missiles, the Praetorian V SAM system can provide massive fire support in case of massive bomber, or missile raids, allowing The Zealous class Super Dreadnought to put up a quality defense against belligerents, and ensuring survival on the deadly waters. Each Praetorian V missile can be interchanged by another SAM, assuming that the chosen SAM is smaller, or the same size. The Praetorian V is rather small, and uses either a conventional engine to engage sea-skimmers, or a scramjet engine to seek and destroy conventional high flying missiles, or aircraft.

The Praetorian V SAM system incorporates the MLT-1 LIDAR system onboard each Zealous class Super Dreadnought, which as a range of about 165 miles (or about 300kms). The MLT-1 LIDAR system uses normal LIDAR, which uses a laser to detect the range of the target, as well as Doppler LIDAR which is used to detect the velocity of the target. DIAL is also used to detect chemical composition of the target. The Praetorian Vs are also hooked up to the MRT-1/N RADAR system used by Macabee Naval vessels. The MRT-1 is based off the TENEX SPY-6 RADAR system, however uses a larger power box, as well as a larger computer network to catch enemy flyers at 700kms. However, the MRT-1 is restricted to altitude of over thirty meters in height (around 100 miles), and for lower altitudes (100 miles to 1,000 miles) is severely restricted in range. The MRT-4 RADAR system is used for sea-skimming missiles, or low flying aircraft. It uses radio waves to track below the minimum range of the MRT-1. The advantages in having two systems do what one could do are that now we have specialization of jobs, and the MRT-4 can focus on one thing, while the MRT-1 focuses on another. To support this massive computer system the CPU uses ln2 coolant to over clock a twenty gigahertz system to thirty gigahertz.

The actual Praetorian V has its own CPU installed on the backside of the missile, above the scramjet engine, and it uses its own MLT-2 LIDAR system, which has a range of two kilometers, and is used for final phase target location purposes. The Praetorian V missile uses the computers to still use the ship based MRT-1, MRT-4 and the MLT-1 systems. This provides a very accurate and effective surface to air missile system. The Praetorian V can be used as an anti-missile, as well as an anti-air SAM.

The Praetorian V system uses an advanced reload system using hydraulic propulsion to lift the missile out of stock racks and push into the barrel of the Praetorian V launch platforms. Each Zealous class Super Dreadnought is outfitted with one thousand Praetorian V missiles in stocks, giving each SAM one hundred Praetorian V missiles, useful for five volleys each SAM.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also carries ten Loki ASROC systems. The Loki ASROC system is a ten tube 500mm torpedo launch system placed strategically around naval vessels which incorporate the system. The Loki ASROC can use the MAT-1 anti-torpedo, the MT-2 SuCav torpedo for short ranges, and the MT-3 water ramjet/pumpjet torpedo for long range use. Each Zealous class Super Dreadnought carries one hundred of each type of torpedo, used in five different ASROC batteries placed on the battleship.

The Loki ASROC has an advanced material composition using THYMONEL 8, a third generation single crystal super alloy, as a coating on the steel launch platform. The THYMONEL 8 coating allows for the resistance to Hydrogen Embrittlement, and the heat of the missile booster. This allows for a rate of fire of all ten torpedoes in eight seconds time. A hydraulic reloading system can restock the Loki ASROC system in ten seconds time.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also has twelve of the brand new Conhort Close-in Weapons Systems. The Conhort uses a variant of the GAU-8 Avenger cannon. The GAU-8 itself weighs 281 kg (620 lb), but the complete weapon, with feed system and drum, weighs 4,029 lb (1,830 kg) with a maximum ammunition load. The entire system is 19 ft 10.5 in (5.05 m) long. The magazine can hold 1,350 rounds, although 1,174 is the more normal load-out. Muzzle velocity with armor-piercing incendiary (API) ammunition is 3,250 ft/s (988 m/s), almost the same as the substantially lighter M61 Vulcan.

The Conhort's system consists of an autocannon and an advanced radar which tracks incoming fire, determines its trajectory, then aims the gun and fires in a matter of seconds. The system is fully automatic, needing no human input once activated. The kinetic energy of the 30mm rounds is sufficient to destroy any missile or shell. The system can also be deployed to protect airfields. However, like the Dutch Goalkeeper and the American Phalanx the Conhort is a last-chance weapon, although considerably accurate. It uses a seperate, smaller, LIDAR Gaussian Transmitter and RADAR tranmitter in order to lock on potential targets and blow them out of the air. Several advantages the Cohort has over the Phalanx system are that it is more accurate, it has a greater kenitic energy impact, more tracking, it's reloaded under the deck, and it can operate under three modes: Auto, Semi-Auto and Manual allowing full operator operability.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought boasts one hundred vertical launch tubes, which each wields four cells. The four cell system works as it fires one missile, then the VLS tube rotates, revealing another warhead. While that one goes through a fire and control procedure the now empty missile slot is restocked, and ready to fire by the next time it comes around. In that way, the Zealous class Super Dreadnought can keep a constant rate of fire on any target it comes upon. The VLS tubes are lined with Thymonel 8 in order to protect it from heating and the general wear and tear of missile launching. The VLS tubes are designed to launch any where from MAAM Ausf. B Cruise Missiles to Principe IIIs, to any other missile in the Macabee inventory, designed for anti-shipping or land attack procedures.

Finally, the Zealous class Super Dreadnought is defended under the waterline by a series of twelve ASHUM guns. The ASHUM guns consists of extremely rapid, and extremely accurate, fire, guided by SONAR and blue-green LIDAR, using depleted uranium bullets and an elastomer propellant. In past operations, the ASHUM guns, coupled with the MAT-1 anti-torpedoes fired from ASROC cannons, have proved to be valuable to defend the lifeline of the ship.

[Sensor Electronics]
The Zealous has an onboard SONAR array, capable of searching through the mixed layer. However, for under the layer searches it also has the TB-2016, used in the Macabee Leviathan class SSN, which is rolled from a seperate compartment, and is long enough to sit right on the deep sound channel axis, giving the SONAR a full read, leaving no shadow zone. The power of the Macabee SONAR systems has been applauded before, and the Elusive is a testament to it.

The Zealous is also given the same SONAR system which the Rommel was equipped with. The Poseidon SONAR system, which is capable of detecting louder shipping at up to one hundred kilometers away at the right circumstances, and advanced submarines at a maximum range of ten kilometers, burning through anechoic tiling quite easily. The Poseidon is considered one of the better SONAR systems used presently. The Poseidon is also programmed to detect the “black hole” effect which submarines using MHD have; making it easier to detect MHD propelled submarines.

The Zealous also has a new thin line towed array called the TB-163, which is three times as long as the Zealous itself, using thousands of hydrophones to detect submarine presence at up to forty kilometers away (ca. 28 miles). The TB-163 uses a strong steel line to ensure that it doesn’t snap, although this could be potentially dangerous to the crew if its used stupidly. The Zealous also has another towed array called the TB-87 which focuses on shorter distances, using powerful hydrophones to detect close enemies.

Macabee ships use the MRT-1 RADAR system to detect enemy aerial assets anywhere from 120 kilometers minimum to 700 kilometers maximum; depending on the circumstances, stealth levels, and altitude. The MRT-1 use a very powerful super computer and several screens to detect, filter, and portray enemy aerial assets. Based of the TENEX SPY-6 this well built system is, again, one of the better ones in use around the world, and provide the Macabees with a reliable early warning system.

Additionally, Macabee ships integrate the MRT-4 Surface Search RADAR system which was built to focus on sea-skimmers. RADAR radio waves are able to catch both missiles and other objects, such as waves, and filter what is a wave, and what is a missile; and quite easily, and through regular technology. Simply, by using a supercomputer and C based program, the computers can detect range, vector, and velocity – hence, it can distinguish what is a missile or aircraft, and what isn’t. A wave doesn’t last at the same altitude, velocity and vector for ever – the wave falls short quite quickly – while a missile lasts in the air for quite a while (of course). Hence, it wasn’t too difficult to design a system capable of picking sea-skimmers up. The range of the MRT-4, however, is considerably shorter, about a hundred nautical miles.

Finally, the Macabee ships include an MLT-1 LIDAR system which as a range of about 250 kilometers (165 miles). The MLT-1 uses regular LIDAR to detect range, Doppler LIDAR to detect velocity, and DIAL LIDAR to detect chemical composition. The newer Gaussian LIDAR system used by Macabee ships has two charged plates placed parallel to each other, one charged negative, the other positive. This in turn begins an electrical current. The Gaussian system doesn't work on reflected waves. Instead, it relies on electrical impulses, rendering current anti-LIDAR techniques inefficient and obsolete.

The Zealous is also equipped with a SODAR array. Sodar (sonic detection and ranging) systems are used to remotely measure the vertical turbulence structure and the wind profile of the lower layer of the atmosphere. Sodar systems are like radar (radio detection and ranging) systems except that sound waves rather than radio waves are used for detection. Other names used for sodar systems include sounder, echosounder and acoustic radar. A more familiar related term may be sonar, which stands for sound navigation ranging. Sonar systems detect the presence and location of objects submerged in water (e.g., submarines) by means of sonic waves reflected back to the source. Sodar systems are similar except the medium is air instead of water and reflection is due to the scattering of sound by atmospheric turbulence.

Most sodar systems operate by issuing an acoustic pulse and then listen for the return signal for a short period of time. Generally, both the intensity and the Doppler (frequency) shift of the return signal are analyzed to determine the wind speed, wind direction and turbulent character of the atmosphere.

[EMP Hardening]
There are two things to consider when considering hardening targets against EMP. The first question to answer is whether the hardened system will become useless if shielded. The second question to be answered is whether the target is economically worthwhile to harden. The answers to these two questions are used to determine what devices should be shielded

To explain the first consideration, Makoff and Tsipis give the following simple example. If there was a communication plane with many antennas used to collect and transfer data, it would not be useful if its antennas were removed. However, to harden the plane, the antennas would need to be removed because they provide a direct path to the interior of the plane. It is important to understand how the hardening will affect the performance of the hardened item.

The second consideration is very easy to understand. Some systems, although important, may not seem worthwhile enough to harden due to the high costs of shielding. "It may cost from 30% to 50% of the cost of a ground based communication center…just to refit it to withstand EMP," and, "as high as 10% of the cost for each plane."

There are two basic ways to harden items against EMP effects.20 The first method is metallic shielding. The alternative is tailored hardening. Both methods will be briefly described.

Metallic shielding is used to, "Exclude energy propagated through fields in space." Shields are made of a continuous piece of some metal such as steel or copper. A metal enclosure generally does not fully shield the interior because of the small holes that are likely to exist. Therefore, this type of shielding often contains additional elements to create the barrier. Commonly, only a fraction of a millimeter of a metal is needed to supply adequate protection. This shield must completely surround the item to be shielded. A tight box must be formed to create the shield. The cost of such shielding (in1986 dollars) is $1000 per square meter for a welded-steel shield after installation.

The alternative method, tailored hardening, is a more cost-effective way of hardening. In this method, only the most vulnerable elements and circuits are redesigned to be more rugged. The more rugged elements will be able to withstand much higher currents. However, a committee of the National Academy of Sciences is skeptical of this method due to unpredictable failures in testing. Also, the use of this method is not recommended by the National Research Council. They doubted whether the approximations made to evaluate susceptibilities of the components were accurate. They did concede that tailored hardening may be useful to make existing systems less vulnerable.

[Propulsion]
The Zealous class Super Dreadnought is driven by ten Baldur pebble bed nuclear reactors. The Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR) is a new type of high temperature helium gas-cooled nuclear reactor, which builds and advances on world-wide nuclear operators' experience of older reactor designs. The most remarkable feature of these reactors is that they use attributes inherent in and natural to the processes of nuclear energy generation to enhance safety features. More importantly, it is also a practical and cost-effective solution to most of the logistics of generating electricity.

http://www.eskom.co.za/nuclear_energy/pebble_bed/image1_2.gif

To protect the reactor there are several infra-red detection devices around the uranium core, and at a note from a pressure sensor, either made by water or a man made collision, the Baldur nuclear reactor is automatically shut off, save for the coolant flow.

http://www.eskom.co.za/nuclear_energy/pebble_bed/coated_part.gif

The nature of the chain reaction that takes place in the PBMR is exactly the same as the one that takes place at Koeberg. (Refer to Koeberg experience - Fuel )

The fuel used in a PBMR consists of "spheres" which are designed in such a way that they contain their radioactivity. The PBMR fuel is based on proven high quality fuel used in Germany.

Each sphere is about the size of a tennis ball and consists of an outer graphite matrix (covering) and an inner fuel zone The fuel zone of a single sphere can contain up to 15 000 "particles". Each particle is coated with a special barrier coating, which ensures that radioactivity is kept locked inside the particle. One of the barriers,the silicon carbide barrier, is so dense that no gaseous or metallic radioactive products can escape. (it retains its density up to temperatures of over 1 700 degrees Celsius). The reactor is loaded with over 440 000 spheres - three quarters of which are fuel spheres and one quarter graphite spheres - at any one time. Fuel spheres are continually being added to the core from the top and removed from the bottom. The removed spheres are measured to see if all the uranium has been used. If it has, the sphere is sent to the spent fuel storage system, and if not, it is reloaded in the core. An average fuel sphere will pass through the core about 10 times before being discharged. the graphite spheres are always re-used. The graphite spheres are used as a moderator. They absorb and reduce the energy of the neutrons so that these can reach the right energy level needed to sustain the chain reaction.

The Baldur nuclear reactors are hooked up to a conducting system, which in turn power a series of Louis-Alice Power Supplies, which then go through a series of thousands of capacitors, and then again through another motor-generator, and finally to their respective water jets and maneuvering pods. There are eight water jets on the outer hulls, and four in the inner hulls. The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also boasts six maneuvering jets, three on each side.

[Aircraft]
The Zealous class Super Dreadnought wields six catapults, along with six elevators. Getting air moving over the deck is important, but the primary takeoff assistance comes from the carrier's six catapults, which get the planes up to high speeds in a very short distance. Each catapult consists of two pistons that sit inside two parallel cylinders, each about as long as a football field, positioned under the deck. The pistons each have a metal lug on their tip, which protrudes through a narrow gap along the top of each cylinder. The two lugs extend through rubber flanges, which seal the cylinders, and through a gap in the flight deck, where they attach to a small shuttle.

To prepare for a takeoff, the flight deck crew moves the plane into position at the rear of the catapult and attaches the towbar on the plane's nose gear (front wheels) to a slot in the shuttle. The crew positions another bar, the holdback, between the back of the wheel and the shuttle (in Lu-25 SVTOL aircraft, the holdback is built into the nose gear -- in other planes, it's a separate piece). While all of this is going on, the flight crew raises the jet blast deflector (JBD) behind the plane (aft of the plane, in this case). When the JBD, towbar and holdback are all in position, and all the final checks have been made, the catapult officer (also known as the "shooter") gets the catapults ready from the catapult control pod, a small, encased control station with a transparent dome that protrudes above the flight deck.

When the plane is ready to go, the catapult officer opens valves to fill the catapult cylinders with high-pressure steam from the ship's reactors. This steam provides the necessary force to propel the pistons at high speed, slinging the plane forward to generate the necessary lift for takeoff. Initially, the pistons are locked into place, so the cylinders simply build up pressure. The catapult officer carefully monitors the pressure level so it's just right for the particular plane and deck conditions. If the pressure is too low, the plane won't get moving fast enough to take off, and the catapult will throw it into the ocean. If there's too much pressure, the sudden jerk could break the nose gear right off.

When the cylinders are charged to the appropriate pressure level, the pilot blasts the plane's engines. The holdback keeps the plane on the shuttle while the engines generate considerable thrust. The catapult officer releases the pistons, the force causes the holdbacks to release, and the steam pressure slams the shuttle and plane forward. At the end of the catapult, the tow bar pops out of the shuttle, releasing the plane. This totally steam-driven system can rocket a 45,000-pound plane from 0 to 165 miles per hour in two seconds! (a 20,000-kg plane from 0 to 266 kph)

The Zealous’ hangars hold up to one hundred and fifty Lu-25 Black Mariah SVTOL aircraft, specially designed for usage on the Zealous class Super Carriers. Unfortunately, purchase of the SVTOL must come separately, although there is a package available which includes a full load of Lu-25s with the purchase of each Zealous class Super Dreadnought.

[Crew]
The Zealous’ naval crew complement consists of eight thousand non-officers, NCOs, junior officers and general officers. The air complement, maintenance not included (instead included with the naval complement), consists of three hundred pilots.

Just as important, however, is the fact that each Zealous class Super Dreadnought can carry up to ten thousand infantry, and also holds six hovercraft landing craft for amphibious operations – although all of this is only included in case of a planned amphibious operation.

[Other Statistics]
[Maximum Velocity:] 30 Knots
[Length:] 680 Meters
[Width:] 136 Meters
[Draught:] 13.6 Meters
[Displacement:] 1,500,000 Tonnes fully loaded

[Cost]
Zealous class Super Dreadnought: 175 Billion USD
Zealous class Super Dreadnough with Full Compliment of Aircraft: 200 Billion USD



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[Lu-25 Black Mariah STOVL [ Multi-role short takeoff and vertical landing]]
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/research/x35/x35_schem_01.jpg

[Abstract]
The Lu-25 was designed specifically for use on the Zealous class Super Dreadnought. Consequently, because of the constraints of an airforce based on a super dreadnought, and because of concerns regarding runway length and the space required, the new aircraft was designed as an verticle take off/landing aircraft, and that way allow for room for more aircraft. The Lu-25 was designed off the Lu-12 and the Lu-05 combined, and indeed, the engineers in the Lu-25 project planned on combining both aircraft into one, along with the X-35 [F-35] project.

[Combat Systems]
The Lu-25 has eight wing hardpoints, capable of carrying what in the Macabee military are called 'missile clips', in which an Lu-25 can carry a total of ten MTAAM-3 Predator air to air missiles. The wings are lined with a Rene N6 superalloy variant called Thymonel 8, used widely in Macabee turbines and engines for its missiles. Thymonel 8 has a tendency to have a low case of hydrogen enviroment embrittlement and does not burn or wear as easily, making it perfect for mass launchings of air to air missiles. Each Black Mariah STOVL aircraft also carried either four MLAM-2 air to surface missiles, or four of any type of anti-shipping missile, or four extra air to air missiles.

Moreover, the Lu-12 has two 20mm cannons mounded in blisters on either side of the fuselage. The cannons are powered by an internal motor generator, nick named the LuG-1 generator, which in turn powers dozens of large capacitors, bathed in water to give more permeability for the transfer of electrons, multiplying total power output by at least eighty.

Two internal hardpoints can carry up to 2,000 pounds worth of weight for bombs or extra missiles, or even extra fuel for extended air superiority missions.

The Lu-25 also has a single MAAMG (Macabee Anti-Air Missile Gun), dubbed 'Lunatic', as well as a undercompartment for flares and chaff. Moreover, it's armed with active RADAR jammer.

[Cockpit and Avionics]
The GEC-built Head-Up Display (HUD) offers a wide field of view (30 degrees horizontally by 25 degrees vertically) and serves as a primary flight instrument for the pilot.

There are six liquid crystal display (LCD) panels in the cockpit. These present information in full color and are fully readable in direct sunlight. LCDs offer lower weight and less size than the cathode ray tube (CRT) displays used in most current aircraft. The lower power requirements also provide a reliability improvement over CRTs. The two Up-Front Displays (UFDs) measure 3"x4" in size and are located to the left and right of the control panel.

The Integrated Control Panel (ICP) is the primary means for manual pilot data entry for communications, navigation, and autopilot data. Located under the glareshield and HUD in center top of the instrument panel, this keypad entry system also has some double click functions, much like a computer mouse for rapid pilot access/use.

The Primary Multi-Function Display (PMFD) is a 8"x8" color display that is located in the middle of the instrument panel, under the ICP. It is the pilot’s principal display for aircraft navigation (including showing waypoints and route of flight) and Situation Assessment (SA) or a "God's-eye view" of the entire environment around (above, below, both sides, front and back) the aircraft.

Three Secondary Multi-Function Displays (SMFDs) are all 6.25" x 6.25" and two of them are located on either side of the PMFD on the instrument panel with the third underneath the PMFD between the pilot's knees. These are used for displaying tactical (both offensive and defensive) information as well as non-tactical information (such as checklists, subsystem status, engine thrust output, and stores management)

[Airframe]
The airframe of the Lu-25 is a composite material made of an Aluminum based superalloy, NiAl, also a third generation crystal superalloy, as well as titanium, cobalt, Iron, interlaced tungsten and a Zirconium and hafnium alloy. There are fifteen titanium ribs.

The airframe is also built with contour angles, in which RADAR waves bounce back in other directions, thus giving the Lu-25 a limited stealth feature, although it has been known that particularly powerful RADAR can look 'over' said features.

[Stealth]
The Lu-25 incorporates the Pallas Athena system, which uses carbon computers, to measure the amplitude, period and frequency of incoming radio waves and thus return an exact radio wave in order to cancel it. The motor generations which run the Pallas Athena also run through a series of capacitors, bathed in water, in order to augment total output by atleast eighty times over. However, the Pallas Athena can be overwhelmed, consequently, it's more of a second rate weapon in order to put 'lesser technologies' at a disadvantage.

The airframe is also covered with a thin-layer of composite light-metallic materials, which in turn is covered with microscopic silica material that is placed to seperate LIDAR rays into opposite adjacent directions.

The turbojets have infra-red suppresants in order to reduce on infra-red photon radiation, consequently cutting back on infra-red target lock from the less advance air to air missiles (AIM-7 Sparrow, AAM and AIM-9 Sidewinders).

Finally, the entire aircraft has a coating of WAVE-X radar absorbent material, which incorporates the best of honeycomb absorbent material, as well as foam absorbers. WAVE-X works at a frequency of 100MHz - 6GHz and has a surface resistivity of 1MΩ. It works in extreme temperatures, -54° - +177°C, and is the best in existance up to now.

http://www.arc-tech.com/photos/arc_32.jpg

[Electronics]
The Lu-25 is equipped with a carry-on RADAR, powered through another motor generator, which in turn runs its wires through a series of dozens of capacitors bathed in water, multiplying the power put out by the motor generator by at least eighty. In turn, the active RADAR can detect movements at over three hundred kilometers distance, equal to that of a MiG-31. Specifically, it's a multi-mode X-band pulse Doppler radar. The system consists of a single electronically-scanned Phased-Array RADAR antenna mounted in the nose and tail giving the Su-63 360 degree scanning capabilites.System can track 50 Targets and simultaeneously fire at 5.The NO-12M RADAR can also be integrated with AWAC or ground based RADAR systems to give it a total detection range of whatever the ground based RADAR is.

The Lu-25 is also equipped with a Gaussian LIDAR transmitter. How the Gaussian transmitter works is that it sets up two electrical planes, one charged positively, and one charged negatively. This, in turn, sets up an electron form, which charges the transmitter to direct a photon ray. The laser beam transmitted in turn hits an object and reports said object through electrical impulses, not reflection. A carbon computer onboard the Lu-25 distinguishes between inanimate (meaning, natural obstacles), friendly, and non-friendly objects in the sky. In order to reduce sucepbility to LIDAR falters in the clouds the DOPPLER LIDAR and DIAL use an infra-red imaging program.

The Lu-25 has a single three hundred and sixty degree rotating camera located under the nose of the aircraft, giving the pilot a full circle view of at least fifty kilometers distance.

[Other Statistics]
Height: 5.9 meters
Wingspan: 12.8 meters
Length: 20.6 meters
Stall Speed: 120 kilometers per hour
Climb Rate: 28,000 meters per minute
Ceiling: 24,384 meters
Range: 5,600 kilometers

[Engines]
The Lu-25 has two Farmacell X-987-RB4 Turbofans lined with Thymonel 8, a RENE N6 superalloy. Thrust-vectoring nozzles provides STOL capabilities, 160 kN static thrust with 250 kN of afterburner. The Farmacell X-987-RB4 turbofans give the Lu-25 a maximum velocity of Mach 2.5.

The STOVL variant features a ducted lift fan located in an enlarged spine just aft of the cockpit in place of a fuel tank carried by the conventional models. This fan is used to provide lift needed for vertical flight, along with thrust provided by the main engine. The main engine makes use of a unique swivelling nozzle that can redirect the thrust aft for level flight or down for vertical flight.

[Cost]
80 Million USD
Corzia
30-05-2005, 21:09
Corzia wants to purchase one of your ships, but we do not have the funds to pay for one at this time. We are wondering if we could work out some sort of payment plan? The Allied States knows we could buy one (without planes) in 5 years. Is this possible?
FYI: We love the costal guns we bought from you and would like to buy another ten, but that is for another time.
Roach-Busters
30-05-2005, 21:10
I'll buy 5 Zealous class Super Dreadnoughts with Full Compliment of Aircraft for one trillion dollars. Money will be wired upon confirmation.
Calpe
30-05-2005, 21:22
The Imperial Navy wishes to buy 5 Zealous class Super Dreadnoughts with aircraft included, for a total of 1 Trillion $. Money will be wired upon confirmation.
HailandKill
30-05-2005, 21:26
OOC:
Can other types of planes be used rather than lu's? This kind of doubles as an aircraft carier too eh? Respond and then ill place my order.
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 01:11
To: Corzia
Your predicament was also ours years ago. Consequently, we understand your situation and we are extremely willing to work out a playment plan. It will take at least six months for us to complete the Zealous class Super Dreadnought, however, we can extend production time, which in the end run will probably be best for you as well, since the longer it takes, the more time to take care of certain production problems, et cetera. Consequently, your five year payment plan will be fine. Indeed, the Zealous will be delivered within the year, and we will give you the four years to build up your payment, and still use the ship. On the fifth year you may pay us. We hope that this works for you [OOC: that really sounded confusing].

[signed]Kriegzimmer Board


---------
---------

To:Roach Busters
Your order for five Zealous class Super Dreadnoughts [with the aircraft compliment] will be completed within two and a half years. It will be delivered 1 January on the third year. We thank you for your order, and we pledge that the Zealous will bring to you what no other ship has brought before.

[signed] Kriegzimmer Board

---------
---------

To:Calpe
Your order for five Zealous class Super Dreadnoughts [with the aircraft compliment] will be completed within two and a half years, as well. As with the previous order, it will be delivered 1 January on the third year. We are sure that the Zealous will be the pride of your fleet, save any ship of your own design - which is always the pride of any fleet. Thank you for your order.

[signed] Kriegzimmer Board

---------
---------

[Hail and Kill: Of course, you can use your own aircraft - that's why I added the catapults, in case anybody was planning to use non verticle take off/landing aircraft.]
Sarzonia
31-05-2005, 01:22
OOC: That displacement is way too low... a ship of the size you've designed should have roughly a 1.5 million tonne displacement if not more. Also, your beam to length ratio is a bit on the high side. You should most likely drop that beam to 160 metres or slightly lower.

On another note, after roughly 24 inches, naval guns start declining in effective range and rate of fire. I have 30 inchers on my Vigilant, but they're primarily there to serve as an intimidator. Also, I don't particularly like quadruple mounts because of various problems the type has had, though I note that I've put quad mounts on the Vigilant. However, the Vigilant was my first attempt to directly answer the Doujin.

I like the research you've put into this design, though I'd also note that you don't need to go into exhaustive detail explaining a railgun or an ETC gun since a number of RPers already know how those work.
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 01:28
OOC: That displacement is way too low... a ship of the size you've designed should have roughly a 1.5 million tonne displacement if not more. Also, your beam to length ratio is a bit on the high side. You should most likely drop that beam to 160 metres or slightly lower.

I think I based my displacement on Taiwanese Island's ship, but after taking a loot at other SDs I think you're right. I'm going to raise it to around 2.25 mill tonnelage.

On another note, after roughly 24 inches, naval guns start declining in effective range and rate of fire. I have 30 inchers on my Vigilant, but they're primarily there to serve as an intimidator. Also, I don't particularly like quadruple mounts because of various problems the type has had, though I note that I've put quad mounts on the Vigilant. However, the Vigilant was my first attempt to directly answer the Doujin.

Regardless, you should also take in mind that perhaps we have the same idea within the context of why putting guns so large. I'm quite aware of how effective a gun is, and how large should be the maximum - that's why you don't see NSers playing around with 1,000mm artillery guns - it would just be, ludicrous. Nonetheless, when all other SDs mount guns at 25" +, it would only be correct to answer with your guns of that calibre - although I would never go past 30" guns, just because it's beyond my personal liking on a ship.

I like the research you've put into this design, though I'd also note that you don't need to go into exhaustive detail explaining a railgun or an ETC gun since a number of RPers already know how those work.

Unfortunately, not all NSers are naval experts. Consequently, this not only explains it all, but offers those who don't know much background information. In the end, it makes for a much better understanding of the ship.
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 01:47
[Note: The aircraft information is up.]
Corzia
31-05-2005, 01:55
We are very happy that you are willing to work out a payment plan, we will send annual installments of 350 000 000 USD. We should be paid in full when the ship is delivered. Thank you again, and we hope to buy from your fine store again soon.
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 03:42
[bump]
Mekugi
31-05-2005, 04:11
OOC: Its definitely nice but I have a few issues with it (I can delete this later if you would like) mostly its draft seems ... well rather extreme and 2.25 millions tons is one hell of a heavy ship... infact its nearly as heavy as a fully loaded Doujin class even though the Doujin is over 300 meters longer, and 108 meters wider in beam.

Ive found (after way too much snooping in other threads and a bit of cramming via Janes guides, that your draft is usually 1/8th or 1/12th of your beam (depending on how stable your going for as draft also decreases speed [more drag] but increases stability) Ive found 1/10th seems to be about right but not alwasys, it depends on your intentions.

Likewise a good length to beam ratio can fall between 5::1 all the way to 8::1 plus or minus 1 or 2 depending on design specifications. Now Im no naval engineer, but these seem to fall within the accepted limits on NS, though of course they can vary heavily depending on the person in questions research.

The quadruple turrets are definitely scary, but they are also a liability, the more guns crammed into a single turret means the more guns that can be taken out by a single well placed hit, armour scheme withstanding the chances of a lucky shot are higher than most people would expect.

Dont let the post make you think I dont like it, I personally love the quirks, and the detail you put into it, and would highly reccomend this to anyone interested in purchaseing such a vessel, I just wanted to share some thigns id found from recent research into the area.

As always ^_^ excellant work!
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 04:21
[OOC: Hehe yea, I'll change the measurements a bit to fit those confines which you set. I was actually trying to remember those, because I think you posted them in another thread - but turned out to be too lazy to go through with the plan. So thanks for posting them here.

About the quadruple turrets - true enough. But I don't plan to put this ship through in close quarter combat, and hopefully my foe won't try that either. The general idea of a SD, in my personal opinion, is stupid - and yes, I am calling my own SD stupid. The only reason I designed it was due to pride, and to have a flag ship to call my own. It's basically a decorated guided missile cruiser which holds a lot more, and doubles as an aircraft carrier.

But, I fell into the abyss and designed one. I really doubt I'll use it for actual combat - perhaps, for the missiles and the aircraft. But it's much too expensive to upkeep - although I guess it would be a waste if it did nothing. Hard decisions, hard decisions. Hehe. Meh, I'll figure out what to do with it.]
Mekugi
31-05-2005, 04:34
OOC: As you know, I did too, though I dont consider it stupid, I suppose I was remembering an old qoute [by who Ive long since forgotten] that goes
"a Tank is the best Anti-Tank weapon there is, as long as they keep killing each other they have no time to fight the war."... or something like that, Ive been a bit frazzled since my twins took over my life, but you get the idea.

It is EXTREMElY hard to kill an SD of that most people are aware, though very few of them actually were designed to take out other SD's (oh sure they have the guns but they are more multi-purpose than job specific) and therefore fall into a jack of all trades story, like most other SD's...

I wanted something a bit different... and thats when I came up with the Archon concept that isa dedicated SD hunter/killer, fast, if somewhat lighter in armor and armament, but capable of litterally rendering those multi-billion/trillion dollar behemouths to little more than artificial islands... I know that sounds a bit of a stretch or even hubris but it was designed to do its job, and do it well, while still mainiting for its own defense and the ability for it to temporarily protect its self should it outrun its escorts {look at the artciles about the Nimitz and Kitty-hawks beating spruance, and ticonderoga class desroyers acorss the pacific, despite their haveing a higher top speed.}

SD's have their place, as long as they are designed to do a job and not everything they can be highly effective and completely unmatched... now they arent cheap, and they certianly arent expendable but again, doctrine, and design really deterine its value more so than actual role.
Clan Smoke Jaguar
31-05-2005, 04:46
OOC: Overall pretty good, with most of the problems already addressed. However, there's one that still needs working:
It says that there is an ammunition load of 2500 rounds per turret. Now, that's just absurd. Most bombardment vessels are designed to maintain a 1 hour (+/- 15 min) bombardment. The reason is that there's rarely need for much more, and that the amount of space required is prohibitive. With 30m guns, each shell takes up over 2.3 cubic meters. With 10,000 shells and propellants, you're taking up around 40,000 cubic meters and hundreds of thousands of tons, when you're highly unlikely to use even 1/10th of all that ammunition outside of a major protracted war, and even then . . .
Really I would advise dropping at least 80% of the ammunition load to accommodate more valuable storage, such as aircraft fuel and munitions, or additional personnel or supplies.
HailandKill
31-05-2005, 13:21
Ill take two of these animals for 350Bil. Money Wired.

OOC:
True enough its a decorated missile cruiser, but jesus i might shit myself if i saw one RL. Surround this thing with enough support and i doubt it would get hit. BTW i might of missed it but wheres the anti-missile/Torpedo capibilities?
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 23:51
OOC: Overall pretty good, with most of the problems already addressed. However, there's one that still needs working:
It says that there is an ammunition load of 2500 rounds per turret. Now, that's just absurd. Most bombardment vessels are designed to maintain a 1 hour (+/- 15 min) bombardment. The reason is that there's rarely need for much more, and that the amount of space required is prohibitive. With 30m guns, each shell takes up over 2.3 cubic meters. With 10,000 shells and propellants, you're taking up around 40,000 cubic meters and hundreds of thousands of tons, when you're highly unlikely to use even 1/10th of all that ammunition outside of a major protracted war, and even then . . .
Really I would advise dropping at least 80% of the ammunition load to accommodate more valuable storage, such as aircraft fuel and munitions, or additional personnel or supplies.

[OOC: Yea, that's what I thought originally. However, nobody critisized Freethinkers and AutoMagFreek when they revealed their jointly developed Sentinel class Super Dreadnought, and I'll quote it's armament features:


Weaponry
-Artillery:
5 main turrets, either:
Triple Mounts for 15” Railguns (6,000 Rounds per turret)
Quadruple Mounts for 25”/64 ETC Guns (2,400 Rounds per turret)
12 x 10”/52 Naval guns


Understandably, I read that and did something of the same. Now, I'll lower the number, but regardless, if I ever enter a war with someone who uses the Sentinel, in my role play, I'm going to use the original numbers stated here - because it seems nobody wished to contradict AMF.

But, nonetheless, thanks for the heads up.]
The Macabees
31-05-2005, 23:54
Ill take two of these animals for 350Bil. Money Wired.

OOC:
True enough its a decorated missile cruiser, but jesus i might shit myself if i saw one RL. Surround this thing with enough support and i doubt it would get hit. BTW i might of missed it but wheres the anti-missile/Torpedo capibilities?

[OOC:
Anti-missile and anti-torpedo capabilities:


The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also carried a total of twenty surface to air missile batteries. The Praetorian V is a massive improvement over the Praetorian IV system, which was basically copied off the Bisonic S-500 SAM system. The Praetorian V should provide better accuracy, as well as better quality, to the consumers of this product. Using a twenty rocket launch system, four rows of five missiles, the Praetorian V SAM system can provide massive fire support in case of massive bomber, or missile raids, allowing The Zealous class Super Dreadnought to put up a quality defense against belligerents, and ensuring survival on the deadly waters. Each Praetorian V missile can be interchanged by another SAM, assuming that the chosen SAM is smaller, or the same size. The Praetorian V is rather small, and uses either a conventional engine to engage sea-skimmers, or a scramjet engine to seek and destroy conventional high flying missiles, or aircraft.

The Praetorian V SAM system incorporates the MLT-1 LIDAR system onboard each Zealous class Super Dreadnought, which as a range of about 165 miles (or about 300kms). The MLT-1 LIDAR system uses normal LIDAR, which uses a laser to detect the range of the target, as well as Doppler LIDAR which is used to detect the velocity of the target. DIAL is also used to detect chemical composition of the target. The Praetorian Vs are also hooked up to the MRT-1/N RADAR system used by Macabee Naval vessels. The MRT-1 is based off the TENEX SPY-6 RADAR system, however uses a larger power box, as well as a larger computer network to catch enemy flyers at 700kms. However, the MRT-1 is restricted to altitude of over thirty meters in height (around 100 miles), and for lower altitudes (100 miles to 1,000 miles) is severely restricted in range. The MRT-4 RADAR system is used for sea-skimming missiles, or low flying aircraft. It uses radio waves to track below the minimum range of the MRT-1. The advantages in having two systems do what one could do are that now we have specialization of jobs, and the MRT-4 can focus on one thing, while the MRT-1 focuses on another. To support this massive computer system the CPU uses ln2 coolant to over clock a twenty gigahertz system to thirty gigahertz.

The actual Praetorian V has its own CPU installed on the backside of the missile, above the scramjet engine, and it uses its own MLT-2 LIDAR system, which has a range of two kilometers, and is used for final phase target location purposes. The Praetorian V missile uses the computers to still use the ship based MRT-1, MRT-4 and the MLT-1 systems. This provides a very accurate and effective surface to air missile system. The Praetorian V can be used as an anti-missile, as well as an anti-air SAM.

The Praetorian V system uses an advanced reload system using hydraulic propulsion to lift the missile out of stock racks and push into the barrel of the Praetorian V launch platforms. Each Zealous class Super Dreadnought is outfitted with one thousand Praetorian V missiles in stocks, giving each SAM one hundred Praetorian V missiles, useful for five volleys each SAM.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also carries ten Loki ASROC systems. The Loki ASROC system is a ten tube 500mm torpedo launch system placed strategically around naval vessels which incorporate the system. The Loki ASROC can use the MAT-1 anti-torpedo, the MT-2 SuCav torpedo for short ranges, and the MT-3 water ramjet/pumpjet torpedo for long range use. Each Zealous class Super Dreadnought carries one hundred of each type of torpedo, used in five different ASROC batteries placed on the battleship.

The Loki ASROC has an advanced material composition using THYMONEL 8, a third generation single crystal super alloy, as a coating on the steel launch platform. The THYMONEL 8 coating allows for the resistance to Hydrogen Embrittlement, and the heat of the missile booster. This allows for a rate of fire of all ten torpedoes in eight seconds time. A hydraulic reloading system can restock the Loki ASROC system in ten seconds time.

The Zealous class Super Dreadnought also has twelve of the brand new Conhort Close-in Weapons Systems. The Conhort uses a variant of the GAU-8 Avenger cannon. The GAU-8 itself weighs 281 kg (620 lb), but the complete weapon, with feed system and drum, weighs 4,029 lb (1,830 kg) with a maximum ammunition load. The entire system is 19 ft 10.5 in (5.05 m) long. The magazine can hold 1,350 rounds, although 1,174 is the more normal load-out. Muzzle velocity with armor-piercing incendiary (API) ammunition is 3,250 ft/s (988 m/s), almost the same as the substantially lighter M61 Vulcan.

The Conhort's system consists of an autocannon and an advanced radar which tracks incoming fire, determines its trajectory, then aims the gun and fires in a matter of seconds. The system is fully automatic, needing no human input once activated. The kinetic energy of the 30mm rounds is sufficient to destroy any missile or shell. The system can also be deployed to protect airfields. However, like the Dutch Goalkeeper and the American Phalanx the Conhort is a last-chance weapon, although considerably accurate. It uses a seperate, smaller, LIDAR Gaussian Transmitter and RADAR tranmitter in order to lock on potential targets and blow them out of the air. Several advantages the Cohort has over the Phalanx system are that it is more accurate, it has a greater kenitic energy impact, more tracking, it's reloaded under the deck, and it can operate under three modes: Auto, Semi-Auto and Manual allowing full operator operability.


]

To: Hailandkill

Your order has been confirmed. They will be completed and delivered within twelve months.

[signed]Kriegzimmer Board
Space Union
01-06-2005, 00:08
I would like to buy 6 of your fine vessals including outfitted with the air wing. Total Price: $1.2 trillion.

Money Will Be Wired Upon Confirmation
The Macabees
01-06-2005, 00:11
I would like to buy 6 of your fine vessals including outfitted with the air wing. Total Price: $1.2 trillion.

Money Will Be Wired Upon Confirmation

To: Space Union

Your order has been confirmed. Due to construction time and such the six vessels will be sent in batches of two every twelve months. We thank you for your order and we are sure you will be happy with these ships.

[signed]Kriegzimmer Board
Clan Smoke Jaguar
01-06-2005, 04:46
[OOC: Yea, that's what I thought originally. However, nobody critisized Freethinkers and AutoMagFreek when they revealed their jointly developed Sentinel class Super Dreadnought, and I'll quote it's armament features:



Understandably, I read that and did something of the same. Now, I'll lower the number, but regardless, if I ever enter a war with someone who uses the Sentinel, in my role play, I'm going to use the original numbers stated here - because it seems nobody wished to contradict AMF.

But, nonetheless, thanks for the heads up.]
I don't recall having seen that. If I had, I certainly would have said something. Come to think of it, that ammunition load exceeds any possible barrel life of the guns. Usually, this was only 200-400 rounds in WWII guns, and increased muzzel velocity of modern shells, especially ETC, will help counter more durable construction of the current guns. Kind of stupid to have more ammunition than your gun can safely and effectively fire, right?
The Freethinkers
01-06-2005, 15:34
Actually, the Sentinel has one other advantage, the fact it is considerably larger (about twice the wroking volume and 2.5 times the weight) than this warship may be a deciding factor?

The Sentinel's original design called for 3 ~28-30" weapons in each individual turret base. Even as the guns were reduced, the turret barbettes themselves remained constant in terms of size and capcity, hence the overtly large ammo capacities for the larger weapons it was fitted with.

Now, you are right, why the high shell numbers at all?

Well, CSJ is right, the average lifespan of each gun barrel is only around 2-400 rounds per barrel. HOWEVER, these are the maximum capacities, how many rounds would be carried in actual combat is undetermined. Its capacities are determined by the lighter pieces, not by the original design. The Sentinel is essentially underarmmed in his main pieces to improve her warfighting capability with higher rates of fire. SO:

i) Those figures are maximum capacity in oversized barbettes.

ii) The large carriage allows for multiple types of warhead for multiple attack missions. Most current SD's have a variety of HE, AP, FAE, Solid Slug, ERGM and nuclear shells for mission work, greater capcity means more versatility and endurance in particular mission sets.
The Macabees
01-06-2005, 15:35
I don't recall having seen that. If I had, I certainly would have said something. Come to think of it, that ammunition load exceeds any possible barrel life of the guns. Usually, this was only 200-400 rounds in WWII guns, and increased muzzel velocity of modern shells, especially ETC, will help counter more durable construction of the current guns. Kind of stupid to have more ammunition than your gun can safely and effectively fire, right?

[OOC: True enough, and now, come to think of it, when would I use 2,500 rounds per turret in a single engagement?]
Sarzonia
01-06-2005, 16:40
OOC: Mac, one thing about the build times: Way, way too short. A ship that size would take roughly 15 years to build if you're taking shortcuts and using crap materials. To build a ship that massive right, you're going to need at least 20-25 years. Unless you happen to have 20 of those giants on the docks nearing completion (which is highly improbable, given their enormous cost to build and the specialised construction techniques required for such a monster), there's no way you could fulfill orders that fast.
The Macabees
01-06-2005, 23:03
OOC: Mac, one thing about the build times: Way, way too short. A ship that size would take roughly 15 years to build if you're taking shortcuts and using crap materials. To build a ship that massive right, you're going to need at least 20-25 years. Unless you happen to have 20 of those giants on the docks nearing completion (which is highly improbable, given their enormous cost to build and the specialised construction techniques required for such a monster), there's no way you could fulfill orders that fast.

[OOC: I would have to disagree, and I suspect we could go around in circles concerning this argument - so, it is to say, I'm not going to shorten my build time, and that's that. Regardless, I will state my position, and you can state yours - but I'm afraid that neither of us are going to budge.

It took the United States around a month to complete a battleship during the Second World,nonetheless, it was said that it would take less due to the sheer amounts of ports including in production, so on average once could say it would take less. The idea behind the production of each super dreadnought is quite the same. My naval production is quite large in terms of the number of factories and shipyards included, meaning, once could specialize on the guns, the other on the electronics, the other on the armor, so on and so forth. So, detailing this, that would mean that the parts for each section of the Super Dreadnought could plausibly be completed within six to seven months. The assembling of the Super Dreadnought would only take one to two months. Meaning, that in retrospect, a twelve month production expection is quite reasonable.

I also have a lot of problems over Super Dreadnought pricing, and I think that even the heaviest should only cost about forty billion, but I won't get into that.]
DontPissUsOff
01-06-2005, 23:30
[OOC: I would have to disagree, and I suspect we could go around in circles concerning this argument - so, it is to say, I'm not going to shorten my build time, and that's that. Regardless, I will state my position, and you can state yours - but I'm afraid that neither of us are going to budge.

It took the United States around a month to complete a battleship during the Second World,nonetheless, it was said that it would take less due to the sheer amounts of ports including in production, so on average once could say it would take less. The idea behind the production of each super dreadnought is quite the same. My naval production is quite large in terms of the number of factories and shipyards included, meaning, once could specialize on the guns, the other on the electronics, the other on the armor, so on and so forth. So, detailing this, that would mean that the parts for each section of the Super Dreadnought could plausibly be completed within six to seven months. The assembling of the Super Dreadnought would only take one to two months. Meaning, that in retrospect, a twelve month production expection is quite reasonable.

I also have a lot of problems over Super Dreadnought pricing, and I think that even the heaviest should only cost about forty billion, but I won't get into that.]

Mac, I don't know where the hell you got that figure, but it's wrong, no question about it. Here are the dates of Laying Down, Launch and Completion for the US battleships built during WWII:

Name Laid Down Launched Completed

North Dakota: 27/10/37; 13/6/40; 9/4/41.
Washington: 14/6/38; 1/6/40; 15/5/41.
South Dakota: 5/6/39; 7/6/41; 20/3/42.
Indiana: 20/11/39; 21/11/41; 30/4/42.
Massachusetts: 2/6/39; 23/9/41; 12/5/42.
Alabama: 1/2/40; 16/2/42; 16/8/42.
Iowa: 27/6/40; 27/8/42; 22/2/43.
New Jersey: 16/9/40; 7/12/42; 23/5/43.
Missouri: 16/1/41; 29/1/44; 11/6/44.
Wisconsin: 25/1/41; 7/12/43; 16/4/44.

(Quoted from Battleships of World War II: An International Encyclopedia, M. J. Whitley, Arms & Armour Press, London, 1998. All errors mine.)

As you can see, even at their fastest performance, US yards required two and a half years to complete a battleship from scratch. Forget not also that in most cases the component of battleships which took longest to manufacture was guns and turrets; the King George V class, for examples, had to be ordered in 1937 in order for the first to be ready by 1940; and even if one had turrets and guns prepared (as with HMS Vanguard preparation of the ship's hull still took a long time (in this case from 1941-44, which was when the ship was launched) and the battleship's actual completion only occurred in 1946. While it is true that British yards especially suffered from extreme pressure in wartime, it is nonetheless tru to say that no battleship was ever actually completed, with the exception of some early Dreadnought classes (and their progenitor, HMS Dreadnought, completed in 14 months by using steel and weapons earmarked for two cancelled pre-dreadnoughts) in anything less than two years (as far as I recall).

Your estimation of how long is required for the production of battleships and their component parts is, basically extravagantly low. Even accounting for various wanked ways of bypassing the usual problems and delays in production, and even accounting for the use of modern methods and materials, I see no way that any large battleship, especially a trimaran, can be completed (at least to a useful standard) in anything like so short a time as you suggest.
The Macabees
01-06-2005, 23:42
[OOC: Regardless, I don't think that when you specialize seperate factories for different parts of a battleship - especially when you're dealing with 4 billion + populations, not 150 million populations - [and thus, more workers, more factories] and with a much larger country, proportionally, meaning more ability for shipyards, and such - I don't think it would take that long to construct a preforming Super Dreadnought. Hell, if it took twenty-five years then the Super Dreadnought isn't even worth contructing, since realistically, in twenty-five years the technology would have changed so far that you would have to change your Super Dreadnought, meaning that it would have to go back into construction for another twenty-five years.

Consequently, I still see no reason to increase my production times. And my apologies, I was referring to the Liberty ships - which although smaller - at the rate they were being produced, one could equate them with a larger battleship - and I do know that the rate of construction for a Liberty Ship, at it's highest, was one every three days [and of course, again, that was taking the average of all Liberty Ships produced at all shipyards].]
DontPissUsOff
02-06-2005, 00:11
[OOC: Regardless, I don't think that when you specialize seperate factories for different parts of a battleship - especially when you're dealing with 4 billion + populations, not 150 million populations - [and thus, more workers, more factories] and with a much larger country, proportionally, meaning more ability for shipyards, and such - I don't think it would take that long to construct a preforming Super Dreadnought. Hell, if it took twenty-five years then the Super Dreadnought isn't even worth contructing, since realistically, in twenty-five years the technology would have changed so far that you would have to change your Super Dreadnought, meaning that it would have to go back into construction for another twenty-five years.

Yes, you're dealing with much larger populations. You're also dealing with infinitely larger and more complex ships. Even if you specialise whole factories into producing just one component or one system (which, by the way, would be economically foolhardy considering just how much equipment, materials etc. one needs for a battleship) you're still not going to get around the sheer vastness of what you're trying to do. Throwing modern machining techniques into the mix helps, but throwing in numbers of workers, in the case of systems such as guns especially, does not (too many cooks, in this case, really do spoil the broth). I agree that a construction time of 25 years is too long to be useful, or for that matter sensible (after all, Jean Bart took less time to complete, and that was with France's industry utterly ruined post-war). Nonetheless, a twelve-month construction time for a vessel about 20 times the size alone of the Iowa class battleships is simply ridiculous. Even gathering, machining and transporting the materials for the hull is a mammoth task, as is then fabricating them once they're there.
Omz222
02-06-2005, 00:26
Regardless of the production rate of older systems, it is still quite irrelevant as a Liberty Ship is nothing when compared to a modern, heavy megatons battleships which is much more complex in its construction, and boasts a much larger array of sophiscated sensors. Thus, even if you do have modern production lines, I'll fully agree with DPUO with the fact that a 12 month construction time for a >2 megaton dreadnaught is ridiculous, no matter how rough the construction is and how advanced your facilities are. Granted, a construction time of 25 years isn't worth all that much, but as weapon systems get bigger and more advanced, production rate is going to be lower. You certainly won't see, for example, modern 5th generation fighters being produced at the rate of WWII fighter production.