NationStates Jolt Archive

Guide to Temporal Technology – The long awaited guide for Nationstate’s most controversial topic.



Created Jointly by Siesatia and Indra Prime


Pre Guide FAQ:

What is Temporal Technology?

Temporal Technology, sometimes abbreviated to Temp Tech, is the controversial range of tech that affects the Space Time Continuum. (STC) It is ability to use the various attributes of the STC to some sort of technical advantage, such as Temporal Shielding or Weaponry. However, with such great power, comes a great responsibility.
What kind of Responsibility?
All of NS’s temporal users have a responsibility to wield temporal technology responsibly. Anyone not wielding it appropriately, or blatantly disregarding fellow players, will fall under the wrath of the ever watchful, Temporal Accord Signers, and the even more powerful Temporal Research Council, with the massive, Temporal Incursion Fleets, who maintain the order, should the Accord signers fail to resolve a situation.

Temporal Accord? Temporal Research Council? Who are they, and who cares?

The temporal accord is a document written and maintained by Indra Prime, Nationstate’s foremost expert, and pioneer on the Subject of Temporal Technology. It is a binding agreement, that the user will submit to the rules set forth, and not destroy temporal tech’s viability for use by respectable Roleplayers. It does not need to be ‘Sanctioned by the UN’ because, as many players soon find out, the UN has no real power in Nationstates, it is a club of sorts.

The Temporal Research Council are the ‘top dogs’ of temporal technology, they are the one’s who oversee the progress of other nation’s temporal technology research, and will not hesitate to step in if there is a problem or threat to the STC. The TRC is headed up by Indra Prime, Nationstate’s Foremost expert on the subject. Jangle Jangle Ridge once said, the Temporal Accord signers are where the kids go to hang out with the cool kids, the Temporal Research Council ARE the cool kids.



Members include:
Indra Prime
Siesatia
Jangle Jangle Ridge
Flaming Souls

What is to stop me from just ignoring the Temporal Accord?

The fact that you will be frowned down upon as a Noob, and will never get the chance to Roleplay with the respectable Rpers of NS.
How do I sign the Accord?

Click the link below, read the rules of the accord, and post a ‘I hereby sign this accord’ or something of that sort.

The Temporal Accord can be found here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=346985)


Levels? What happened to Freeform?

Temporal Levels is something I came up with in order to determine the strength of my nation as well as any other nation that decided to partake in the development of a project in the field of Temporal Mechanics. Here is how it works. Each nation must ICly begin to research temporal technology in order to gain awareness of the tech and not how to misuse it; basically OOCly learn how to not misuse it and claim uber tech capabilities right off the bat. Each level is an exponential increase in resourses and demand for correct knowledge about the technology. The way you determine how far you have advanced from your first day of researching, is by following a basic rule of thumb. If you have a "temporal tech cheat sheet" (ie a piece of temporal technology more advanced than what you possess the capabilities of developing), then you can advance one Temporal Level per RL month. If you do NOT have a piece of technology that allows you to develop at that rate, it would be at a rate slower, perhaps a level per TWO RL months. This is to prevent nations from claiming level 335403 Temporal Tech.

Explanation of some simple Temporal Device Categories

Temporal Shields – Shields of great power, they are resilient to most forms of conventional weapons. They are also the only forms of energy shielding capable of withstanding temporal energy weapons. They are also able to resist changes in the temporal timeline. An example of such a system, are the great shield systems around all the Siesatian planets, created to protect against such an temporal incursion. Protective capability of the shield unit is all dependant of the level of temporal development of the nation, The Level the nation in question is at.

Temporal Weapons – Weapons using the energy of the Space Time Continuum, they are extremely powerful, and will punch through most forms of conventional shielding. Because of their volatile nature, they are able to damage the STC, and high level weapons research are watched over. These are weapon systems that either utilize pure temporal energy or have some kind of temporal influence on them. For example, a weapon that utilizes pure temporal energy is the Indran temporal disruptor. It is a weapon that isolates a targeted object, be it a ship, station, moon, planet, or even a star, and removes it from the Space/Time Continuum, or the STC, and scrambles the quantum signature of said object. Lethalness depends on the level of which the weapon of said nation is at as well as the temporal defenses that the target object is using. The second kind of temporal weaponry is shown by the example of a Point Singularity Projectile, or PSP. This weapon is a standard on Indran Warships and is considered to be a weapon that utilizes temporal technology though is not completely made of temporal energy. Basically it is a micro-singularity or a miniature black hole that is fired like a solid or energy projectile. Normal Shield cannot usually stand up to these weapons due to the gravitational and temporal distortions caused by the immense gravitational field of the Black hole. A temporal containment field is required to maintain the PSP from getting out of hand within the vessel that is transporting it.

Temporal Energy Systems – Energy generators capable of drawing power from the STC itself. At low levels, they are very inefficient, and do not usually out compete conventional reactors. At higher levels, they can supply near infinite power at extreme high quantities.

Temporal Cores - These are rarer as only a few nations have these devices. These devices are the only thing that allow for access to the higher levels of temporal development as they must be able to provide enough power to the ships systems in order for the temporal shields, temporal weapons, temporal sensors and the Temporal Impellors to work. Inside the core, is an ultra rare element that exists in the NS Multiverse called Chronotonium. Without this element in correct quantities, nations are unable to develop temporal technology above a certain level (level 15). There is only one location in the multiverse for this element which still remains secret from everyone.

Temporal Sensors – Devices that are not controlled by the Temporal Accord with such vigilance as other technologies, they are used to scan the STC for imperfections, and signs of temporal incursion. Temporal Sensors are just like normal spatial sensors however they do not only scan space. These sensors are finely attuned to the curvature of the Space/Time Continuum and allow for the vessel or Observatory in question to scan the STC for any possible Temporal Incursions or signs of Temporal or high spatial instability. An example of these sensors would be the Temporal Arc Sensors that are installed in the Indran Temporal Observatory as well as the Chronos Juggernaut (Klonor's newest flagship). The clarity of the sensors is dependant on the Level the nation who is constructing these sensors is at.

“It’s the Guide” – Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
~Disclaimer- Siesatia apologizes for the usage of any quotes from movies, Games, and or books.~
Many nations look to temporal technology to overpower their enemies, without using tactics, and simply claim some infinitesimal level. These are the players who very nearly ruined the technology for many nations. Levels can be confirmed by asking senior members of the Temporal Research Council, or an Administrative member of the Temporal Accord.
The Temporal Research Council and the Temporal Accord exist to control these members, and keep order in the realm of Temporal Technology, not to ruin Role-plays or use their memberships or administrative positions for Imperialistic purposes as accused by ‘Certain less knowledgeable members.

How do you get started in the realm of temporal technology? Simple, the first step should be to sign the accord. This protects you from the repercussions should you cause an incident.

The next step should be to announce the beginnings of your research. This announcement will be verified by the Accord, via the posting of a member of the Temporal Research Council. To expedite this process, you may telegram a TRC member.

Every two months, you will gain a level. Levels 1 – 4 are levels that you do not need the Temporal Accord’s permission to develop, as they very rarely pose a threat to the STC. Any level above these will need a signature on the accord to continue development.

Temporal technology should be used sparingly, as it can lead to the overuse of such weapons, and the decrease of tactics and good Role-play. Many wars can be won without the use of it, and we recommend it, as it tends to lead to much better reading material, last longer, and is generally more fun.


Everything else is explained in the Temporal Accord (ie backsteps, timeloops, causality loops, paradoxes, etc.)

Right now, I am RPing via Future Tech. However, my RP story is finding a weapon that transcends time...I believe my RP I'm doing involves Temporal Tech. Will I get hunted down for this?

Transcend? As in, rise above, or be greater than Time?

Do you mean travel time?

I'm not sure how this weapon (The Celestial Blade) will function. The RP I've started is found on this link. Please read the prologue, especially the last paragraph of it. It will tell you a small detail of the Celestial Blade.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=419727

Perhaps you should TG me with your AIM/MSN so we can discuss this technology.

Looks good man, Finally something concrete!

OOC: Thanks for this. This helps a lot - simply because I know why temporal technology became and taboo and a little more information on the inner workings of the technology used in NS (ie, what the HELL you lot are on about when you describe the weapons).

Now, all I have to do is actually put a thread up on the development and use of this technology as a defensive/offensive weapon. Too many things to do ..

Whenever there is to be a temporal event in my RP, I spend hours chatting with the other participants, explaining to them what will Happen. I recently had an incident involving an alternate dimension, and that went swimmingly. Just plan before you do, and everything will be fine. Thats what I always do.

Temporal Technology, sometimes abbreviated to Temp Tech, is the controversial range of tech that affects the Space Time Continuum.Doesn't it sound shiny? To bad that a planet would be such technology, distorting space/ time according to relativity. Very impresse, using a bunch of shiny-sounding words saying absolutely nothing.

All of NS’s temporal users have a responsibility to wield temporal technology responsibly. Anyone not wielding it appropriately, or blatantly disregarding fellow players, will fall under the wrath of the ever watchful, Temporal Accord Signers, and the even more powerful Temporal Research Council, with the massive, Temporal Incursion Fleets, who maintain the order, should the Accord signers fail to resolve a situation.Who or what defines 'Responsible'? Why do you disregard the ability of $Player to deal with such things by him/ herself?

The temporal accord is a document written and maintained by Indra Prime, Nationstate’s foremost expert, and pioneer on the Subject of Temporal Technology.How can you be an expert on fictional, not even remotely physics-based technology (Disregarding the option of being a wanker with delusions of grandeur, which I'm sure Indra Prime isn't)? This sounds even worse that Ma-Tek's attemt at 'copyrighting' EMP.

It is a binding agreement, that the user will submit to the rules set forth, and not destroy temporal tech’s viability for use by respectable Roleplayers.So, by your logic, an equal accord to keep MT entirely for 'respected' Players owuld make sense, too. Perhaps it's just me, but I find it odd.

Aside from that, I wonder what defines 'Respectable'. I'm sure the players signing the accord respect each other, however, I have certain doubts regarding others... I most certainly don't respect the Temporal Accord signatories. Given the occasional replies in the original thread, I'm reasonably certain that The C'tan, Weyr, Iuthia don't respect ya, either. From occasional discussions on IRC, a good bunch of other people seems to think the same way. A good bunch of NS' modern tech branch will likely loathe you.

And frankly, no. Being a bunch of warmongering temporal wankers trying to enforce their OMFG STANDARD over a Free Form RP environment where the problems of wank technology can be dealt with by telling $Player to fuck off does not make one respectable.

What is to stop me from just ignoring the Temporal Accord?

The fact that you will be frowned down upon as a Noob, and will never get the chance to Roleplay with the respectable Rpers of NS.Bwa... Bwaha... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'm sory, this is just... So... You're on a really serious egotrip. I suggest psychotherapy.

And, pointing to above, your statement is also blatantly false. Oh, wait, right... You decide who is respected and who isn't, so Temporal Accord signatories are, and nobody else is.

... Unfortunately, this definition kinda devalues the meaning of 'respected'.

... Come to think of it, Llast I checked, Kaenei is doing time travel. He has not signed the Temporal Accords. He remains being respected by, uh, roughly twenty or thirty players, which is pretty much the bunch he's interacting with.

... Odd, how he isn't frowned upon as an OMFG n00b. You, on the other hand...

In any case, your statement has just been falsified.

Temporal Levels is something I came up with in order to determine the strength of my nation as well as any other nation that decided to partake in the development of a project in the field of Temporal Mechanics. Here is how it works. Each nation must ICly begin to research temporal technology in order to gain awareness of the tech and not how to misuse it; basically OOCly learn how to not misuse it and claim uber tech capabilities right off the bat. Each level is an exponential increase in resourses and demand for correct knowledge about the technology. The way you determine how far you have advanced from your first day of researching, is by following a basic rule of thumb. If you have a "temporal tech cheat sheet" (ie a piece of temporal technology more advanced than what you possess the capabilities of developing), then you can advance one Temporal Level per RL month. If you do NOT have a piece of technology that allows you to develop at that rate, it would be at a rate slower, perhaps a level per TWO RL months. This is to prevent nations from claiming level 335403 Temporal Tech.Whoops. Indeed, you killed freeform. You have no way of enforcing this. And building up rules for fictional technology one makes up on the spot to begin with is...

Odd.

<Snipped made-up bullshit>... How can one be so full of oneself? HOW?

Many nations look to temporal technology to overpower their enemies, without using tactics, and simply claim some infinitesimal level. These are the players who very nearly ruined the technology for many nations. Levels can be confirmed by asking senior members of the Temporal Research Council, or an Administrative member of the Temporal Accord.
The Temporal Research Council and the Temporal Accord exist to control these members, and keep order in the realm of Temporal Technology, not to ruin Role-plays or use their memberships or administrative positions for Imperialistic purposes as accused by ‘Certain less knowledgeable members.'Infinitesimal' means 'small'. In fact, 'Extremely small, almost not there', and as such, the exact opposite of what you were intending to express. Great to know that you learned your vocabulary instead of just grabbing $Sophisticated_sounding_word and throwing it in for good measure, in order to sound SMARTER.

... Incidentally, I wuld argue that while others may have ruined the technology for you, you're ruining an entire RP environment with your bloated ego and ludicrous free-form killing.

How do you get started in the realm of temporal technology? Simple, the first step should be to sign the accord. This protects you from the repercussions should you cause an incident.Or you just go do-it-yourself and tell $Temporal_Accord member to shove it up his or her ass.

Personally, I prefer my version.

Every two months, you will gain a level. Levels 1 – 4 are levels that you do not need the Temporal Accord’s permission to develop, as they very rarely pose a threat to the STC. Any level above these will need a signature on the accord to continue development.* FREEFORM_RP KICKS YOU IN THA ASS!!!11

*Applauds*

Der Angst destroys another attempt to create stupid rules! :D

The temporal accord is a document written and maintained by Indra Prime, Nationstate’s foremost expert, and pioneer on the Subject of Temporal Technology.

You mean 'the first guy to think the absolutely laughable 'Temporal Incursion' weapon from the Star Trek: Voyager double episode 'The year of Hell' was in some way useable on NS?' There is no way to be an expert in the technology employed in the Krenim's ridiculous giant timepenis. It's fictional.

Snip that bs...

le snippity snip
telling $Player to fuck off does not make one respectable.

Snip that bs too...

Ok, to follow your lead...Der Angst....Fuck Off.

Do you see Siesatia, Indra, Myself, or any other previously listed nation going into your threads and flaming you? No, didn't think so. So come off your ego trip and let us RP the way we want to RP. That was awfully inconsiderate of you to do that. We do what we do, if you don't like it, play by your own rules. *neatly catogorizes Der Angst's post into the flame folder*

Do you see Siesatia, Indra, Myself, or any other previously listed nation going into your threads and flaming you?

Do you see him making expansive lists of absurdly overrestrictive rules for a particular type of technology just because he's arbitarily proclaimed himself God of it? Why, no!

Nice of you to discount all his actual arguments and rebut based on one sentence of his post.

Do you see him making expansive lists of absurdly overrestrictive rules for a particular type of technology just because he's arbitarily proclaimed himself God of it? Why, no!

Nice of you to discount all his actual arguments and rebut based on one sentence of his post.

I wasn't debasing his entire argument based off of one sentence, I just snipped the quote to keep the length down, highlighting the one line I was going to draw attention to. You all may say these rules are absurd, overrestrictive, etc etc etc. however there are at least a decent number of us that wish to follow them, and do so. Like I said, which was ignored, if you don't like it, play somewhere else (not meaning leave NS, just don't RP with those of us that follow this set of rules). Nice of you to discount my brief rebuttle due to my snipping of a quote. And for your information, Indra did not just come in and say 'Hey, I am the be all end all of Temp Tech, obey me bitches' he came in and worked to make it legit, created what he thought to be a decent set of rules which caught on with people, and has consistently exhibited a greater understanding of Temporal Mechanics than anyone else on NS, and as such, has earned respect from people, which the naysayers view as his Godhood. So, please, just let us be, let us play the way we want to play, if you don't like it, fuck off. We are here to have fun, don't ruin it.

Do you see Siesatia, Indra, Myself, or any other previously listed nation going into your threads and flaming you?You did notice that the whole point of this accords is to enforce $Idea over anyone else? Siesatia was actually rather explicit with it: 'The Temporal Research Council are the ‘top dogs’ of temporal technology, they are the one’s who oversee the progress of other nation’s temporal technology research, and will not hesitate to step in if there is a problem or threat to the STC.'

Or 'How do you get started in the realm of temporal technology? Simple, the first step should be to sign the accord. This protects you from the repercussions should you cause an incident.'

I distinctly recall several occasions in which TA members invaded a thread and masturbated all over $Player (Einhauser, some other guy whose name I forgot).

So, yes, the Temporal Accord is doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

With the difference being that they're actually warmongering in IC threads, rather than offering (Admittedly not exactly polite) criticism.

No, didn't think so.Not me in particular (Most likely because I don't have a temporal penis), but guess what? Doing it with others doesn't really help you. What's more, you seem to believe that this 'Guide' (I would go with a slightly less friendly definition, but hey) is indeed correct, rather than an object to discuss (Which I am, in my admittedly mildly rude ways).

And, given NS' free form environment, guess what is right? Hint: It's not your version.

So come off your ego trip and let us RP the way we want to RP.Oh, if you would indeed confine this to your circle, I wouldn't rant (I would still have problems with it, but they wouldn't really concern me). However, this isn't the way you want to RP, this is the way you want everyone else to RP.

And this is utterly ludicrous and not acceptable.

That was awfully inconsiderate of you to do that. We do what we do, if you don't like it, play by your own rules.See above. According to Siesatia's/ Indra Prime's definitions and rules, I can't play by my rules because I'm subject to theirs (Well, they try to make me... Not that it would be possible to enforce). Which is my whole problem with it. And frankly, if your reading apprehension skills are so bad that you couldn't grasp this most basic concept of what Siesatia wrote and I criticised, you have a problem.

Ok, to follow your lead...Der Angst....Fuck Off.

Do you see Siesatia, Indra, Myself, or any other previously listed nation going into your threads and flaming you? No, didn't think so. So come off your ego trip and let us RP the way we want to RP. That was awfully inconsiderate of you to do that. We do what we do, if you don't like it, play by your own rules. *neatly catogorizes Der Angst's post into the flame folder*

*neatly catergorises Flaming souls post/account into the dickhead folder*
Why dont you fuck off you are the ones trying to control other people.

That's called a dictatorship.You can't make rules up off the top of your head and are you an administrator? No then stop trying to run the game!

Let me remind you that the only solid fact is that we are fictional leaders of fictional nations using fictional technology. Ergo, we can set what limits we want. I personally never said that you had to abide by our rules, quite the opposite, I said, if you don't like it, ignore it, like you would do with godmodders, because it appears you lump us in the same category. Granted, I did jump in on Einhauser and OOCly for personal reasons on Dratheria (the one you forgot) because by the time I got involved it was already hijacked, ergo I could not possibly do any harm. I messed up on the Einhauser one, I admit, ok? happy? good. I haven't jumped in on anyone since, even though I have had the opportunity. If it really bothers you so much, then why don't you just ignore it? Seems to be the best solution. Now, I am tired, and have been up way to long and am almost not coherent and am losing short term memory and typing skills rapidly, so this is it for me, I am done with this thread (the argument at least) and am going to bed.

You all may say these rules are absurd, overrestrictive, etc etc etc. however there are at least a decent number of us that wish to follow them, and do so.

This thread is a set of rules that intends to FORCE people to follow them. Looky:

All of NS’s temporal users have a responsibility to wield temporal technology responsibly. Anyone not wielding it appropriately, or blatantly disregarding fellow players, will fall under the wrath of the ever watchful, Temporal Accord Signers, and the even more powerful Temporal Research Council, with the massive, Temporal Incursion Fleets, who maintain the order, should the Accord signers fail to resolve a situation.

What is to stop me from just ignoring the Temporal Accord?

The fact that you will be frowned down upon as a Noob, and will never get the chance to Roleplay with the respectable Rpers of NS.

Which also cheerfully implies you guys are the only respected RPers in Nationstates. No wonder you love telling people to fuck off.

Inside the core, is an ultra rare element that exists in the NS Multiverse called Chronotonium. Without this element in correct quantities, nations are unable to develop temporal technology above a certain level (level 15). There is only one location in the multiverse for this element which still remains secret from everyone.

=wank designed to ensure you're always more powerful than anyone else.

The Temporal Research Council and the Temporal Accord exist to control these members, and keep order in the realm of Temporal Technology, not to ruin Role-plays or use their memberships or administrative positions for Imperialistic purposes as accused by ‘Certain less knowledgeable members.

'To keep order in the realm of this technology.' 'To control these members.' Yes, really keeping this among yourselves, there.

How do you get started in the realm of temporal technology? Simple, the first step should be to sign the accord. This protects you from the repercussions should you cause an incident.

The next step should be to announce the beginnings of your research. This announcement will be verified by the Accord, via the posting of a member of the Temporal Research Council. To expedite this process, you may telegram a TRC member.

Meaning nobody can even develop this rubbish unless you say so? Charming.

Every two months, you will gain a level. Levels 1 – 4 are levels that you do not need the Temporal Accord’s permission to develop, as they very rarely pose a threat to the STC. Any level above these will need a signature on the accord to continue development.

So you're forced to stay down low unless you sign the accord.

I design tanks, many say I do it well. Do you have any idea how much flak I would get if I said nobody but me and a few friends could have the best tanks, that all other tank developments must be screened by me and my friends, and that all violators would be destroyed by fleets of Ground Battleships?

It doesn't sound right, does it?

Then why is it ok for 'Temporal Tech?'

Like I said, which was ignored, if you don't like it, play somewhere else (not meaning leave NS, just don't RP with those of us that follow this set of rules). Nice of you to discount my brief rebuttle due to my snipping of a quote.

That's nice. It's not what the thread says, though.

...and [Indra Prime] has consistently exhibited a greater understanding of Temporal Mechanics than anyone else on NS

To be blunt, no. He stole it from an episode of Star Trek.

Wow - after all this time Der Angst is still leading the way in battle against all the 'we must have dumbshit rules' groups :)

I dont see what your all complaining about this seems to me like there making an effort to limit the amount of damage that could be possible caused by use of the fictional techonology by trying to have it be used under a guideline.

It just seems like when America invaded iraq for "housing" wmd's, there trying to make an accecptable way of using a technology that could be devastating by threat of force in order to comply with the rules, there are many countrys in this real world that do similar things.

I dont see what your all complaining about this seems to me like there making an effort to limit the amount of damage that could be possible caused by use of the fictional techonology by trying to have it be used under a guideline.

It just seems like when America invaded iraq for "housing" wmd's, there trying to make an accecptable way of using a technology that could be devastating by threat of force in order to comply with the rules, there are many countrys in this real world that do similar things.

Please. Don't compare RL events to Fiction. Why do we need guidelines? That takes the fun out of Free-form RP! I'll do what the hell I like, so long as all other participants agree before we proceed.

New Bendigo - if it was an IC initiative, that would be fine. But they're basically telling people OoC how they should RP their tech/nation or risk being 't3h unrespectedzor!!11' - which is crap.

Please. Don't compare RL events to Fiction. Why do we need guidelines? That takes the fun out of Free-form RP! I'll do what the hell I like, so long as all other participants agree before we proceed.

Is imposing guidlines/rules not part of the fun of free-form RP? Im sure having your nation invaded must take the fun out of free form roleplaying right? because after all you would have to comply with a stronger nations demands so lets not invade countrys because its not fun for the person being invaded.

I like the way you think :rolleyes:

New Bendigo']Is imposing rules not part of the fun of free-form RP? Im sure having your nation invaded must take the fun out of free form roleplaying right? because after all you would have to comply with a stronger nations demands so lets not invade countrys because its not fun for the person being invaded.

I like the way you think :rolleyes:
Ah don't start that. I love a good invasion! Fighting against a larger force, being occupied... it just opens so many more possibilities for your RP!

If you don't like being invaded, then you consider this a game you have to win! This is not a competition small minded one!

Don't be a simpleton. Being invaded is fun!

Please. Don't compare RL events to Fiction. Why do we need guidelines? That takes the fun out of Free-form RP! I'll do what the hell I like, so long as all other participants agree before we proceed.


You hit it on the nose. Free-form. So, our set of rules, 100% ok. Now if everyone would stop bitching in this thread, it would be appreciated by some of us. This has degenerated into a flamewar, I would like to end it. If any of you want to continue this discussion I suggest one of two things. Either create another thread just for this, or contact me over IM. I use AIM (zoidwarrior1517) Yahoo (ddepcano) and MSN (dkx_madmonkey@msn.com). But please stop posting all this here. Just please don't continue this here.

to the The Imperial Navy: Im glad to see sarcasm doesnt elude you.

SNIPED!

Seeing as this has been requested to stop im going to do such

New Bendigo']Is imposing rules not part of the fun of free-form RP?

No, it's not. It's the OPPOSITE of free-form RP which is free form and therefore has not ruleset not created between the players interacting in a thread. These rules can be different in every single thread. All the 'generally accepted' rules are guidelines, there's no penalty for violating them other than players may choose not to interact with you. Unlike, say, these rules, which seek to force all players using a particular type of technology to conform to an utterly arbitary system of limits to make a small group of players the bigbad.


New Bendigo']Im sure having your nation invaded must take the fun out of free form roleplaying right? because after all you would have to comply with a stronger nations demands so lets not invade countrys because its not fun for the person being invaded.

Yes, because NS roleplay isn't about telling a story, is it? Being invaded doesn't make telling a story impossible; as long as the invasion is agreed on by both parties it can come out as enjoyable for both parties.

New Bendigo']to the The Imperial Navy: Im glad to see sarcasm doesnt elude you.

SNIPED!

Seeing as this has been requested to stop im going to do such

I'll keep doing what I want, you keep doing what you want. End of story. Now stop winging about invasion and go away if you don't like it. You don't have to come here you know. :rolleyes:

You hit it on the nose. Free-form. So, our set of rules, 100% ok. Now if everyone would stop bitching in this thread, it would be appreciated by some of us. This has degenerated into a flamewar, I would like to end it.

It's always nice to pretend legitimate criticism is flaming, isn't it? Helps you ignore all those annoying people pointing out that this is not free-form, it's an attempt to bully people into accepting the 'temporal council of whatever' as teh ub3rn3ss by claiming they won't be respected by 'the respectable Rpers of NS' if they refuse.

And that's not on.

But please stop posting all this here. Just please don't continue this here.

OFFICIAL MODERATION STATEMENT: No. This is a non-closed thread for discussion of these 'rules,' you can't go getting offended just because all your feedback isn't positive. 'Positive feedback only' is not a legitimate request for an OOC 'rules' thread.

*To all the signoraties(sp?) PWNZ3D

What I was trying to say before I sniped it to comply with a members request , to stop aruging because i wouldnt call this critisim its a flamewar and mods should be stopping this behaivaour :rolleyes:


I'll keep doing what I want, you keep doing what you want. End of story. Now stop winging about invasion and go away if you don't like it. You don't have to come here you know. :rolleyes:

I dont give a shit about invasion i was trying to use it as an analogy to the fact that if your nation where to be invaded and had a new nations rules imposed on it, is that not the same as what this temporal accord is trying to do?? instead its imposing the laws and saying that if they arent followed it could be responded with by force.

New Bendigo']What I was trying to say before I sniped it to comply with a members request , to stop aruging because i wouldnt call this critisim its a flamewar and mods should be stopping this behaivaour

Mods have already said it's criticism and not a flamewar. Therefore, nobody is going to stop this 'behaviour.' If you believe we should stop everything but fawning acceptance of this kind of idiocy we'd have a lot of horrendous rules extremely quickly.

New Bendigo']I dont give a shit about invasion i was trying to use it as an analogy to the fact that if your nation where to be invaded and had a new nations rules imposed on it, is that not the same as what this temporal accord is trying to do??

No, it's not. The correct analogy would be if the invading nation invaded every nation on NS at once without asking them OOC permission first and then imposed their rules. Is that fair or acceptable behaviour?

What ever im going to follow the request of Flaming Souls. Enjoy your fun GMC

OoC rules vs IC rules - big difference. This is telling someone how to play the game, invading them and making them a puppet nation is roleplaying telling them how to play the game. Being invaded doesn't stop you from being able to RP things how you like - this treaty/guide is attempting to do that.

Sure, getting invaded cuts off a lot of options but opens a heap of new ones - this treaty is only trying to close off options of what you can do with no redeeming value - hence sucks.

Given that even Siesatia himself realised that there would be criticism (Hence the title 'Guide to Temporal Technology – The Controversial Guide to the Controversial Tech'), I find your (Flaming Souls/ New Bendigo) whining about not everyone immediately applauding, and some people actually disagreeing with the 'Guide' mildly amusing... Seeing as such was, apparently, expected by the creator.

Given that even Siesatia himself realised that there would be criticism (Hence the title 'Guide to Temporal Technology – The Controversial Guide to the Controversial Tech'), I find your (Flaming Souls/ New Bendigo) whining about not everyone immediately applauding, and some people actually disagreeing with the 'Guide' mildly amusing... Seeing as such was, apparently, expected by the creator.

And you are amused because you yourself disagreed? Heh. I am amused that people think they can control us.

OOC:

I'm not surprised everyone has turned this into a bitchfest. Now, as a sideliner who signed the temporal accord, I'd like to add my own input.

Firstly, yes I agree the rules are ridiculous are utterly restrictive and I plan to move away from them at a later date by resigning from the treaty and commencing work on temporal technology to equal the Temporal accord. However, one also has to really remember why indra in particular would be defensive of a lot of this technology. Now, purely from what I've garnered, the technology was ignored and Indra made it respectable again. I'm probably wrong, but I can only judge things from what I see.

That's the only reason I've signed the treaty - so that I can get into contact with a group of people who so far, have used temporal technology in a competley unwankerish way that has earned some deal of respect, develop my own (because temporal technology looks to be a challenge to roleplay and will further increase my focus on powerful ships/soldiers/troops tiny numbers focus) but allow me to do something a little off the wall. I'm here to learn from a group who seems to know how to roleplay temporal technology well, then I'm leaving and doing my own work.

Do we really need to bitch and fight about all this? From what I can see, temporal technology is a very difficult area to argue around because it can become a massive techwank. Personally I believe it would be much better if the temporal accord was torn down and something of an institution to somehow introduce temporal technology ina respectable manner to the community was achieved. OH SNAP. There I go being ideological again, because this is as elitist as hell.

Because as a member of the temporal accord I'm getting sick and tired of someone trying to do something original with the technology, that is probably not even possible (this is freefrom roleplay however) and getting signatory members shoving the whole "OMFG n00b GODMODARRR" atitude down their throat because they haven't signed the treaty or know nothing about temporal/quantum/whatthefuckever mechanics or doesn't want to sign a treaty.

Hell, I never signed the treaty to follow the rules. I signed it to see how others use the technology and in quite a few cases I'm pretty disturbed.

New Bendigo']I dont give a shit about invasion i was trying to use it as an analogy to the fact that if your nation where to be invaded and had a new nations rules imposed on it, is that not the same as what this temporal accord is trying to do?? instead its imposing the laws and saying that if they arent followed it could be responded with by force.

That has nothing to do with OOC rules. IC rules imposed can be defied-in a fun way that can lead to riots, rebellion ETC.

Telling somone OOC that unless you obey their rules you won't be respected, is being stupid.

Please, stop comparing fiction to RL. fiction can be molded into somthing fun, while RL rules must be careful not to violate my rights. And I have a right to free form RP, and I will be respected for it.

I agree with most of Der Angst's original point, without wanting to be too nasty about it all of course.


Previously I've pretty much dismissed the idea of the Temporal Accord, mostly becuase my point of view on time travel and roleplaying is that everything which has happened has been set to happen in this universe and cannot be changed by Temporal Technology without changing the universe they are in... they will have done something in another time, however it already happened to that Universe so they too are generally uneffected by it. I find that this way Time Travel as we imagine it (not counting the natural effect that movement and gravity has on time which has been proven to exist) doesn't really do anything to change my timeline.

This has worked for me as no nation has ever tried to go back in time and change Iuthia's timeline (which would result in a instant ignore of the action, not the nation unless they tried to push it like some kind of n00b). It also means I don't have to ignore the Temporal Accord, though Iuthia does IC see them as a highly militant organisation which goes to war with other nations they think are developing WMD, Iuthia condemns this when it's nuclear weapons and we continue to condemn it when it's being done over "Temporal Technology" too.


Back to this guide... yeah, try and enforce this on any of my allies (read: Kaenei) and we won't be pleased in the slightest, though I imagine he will ignore you and better yet, we wouldn't feel bad about it in the slightest... there are so many other roleplayers around that ignoring a bunch of nations who RP technology which is very easy to abuse really wouldn't make me look like a newbie... it's time technology and frankly I don't like watching nations impose their own rules for nationsates on other.

The fact that instead of giving sound impartial advise about developing this technology you have instead chosen to go on about how they should "Join the accord or be stopped from developing" suggests this is a OOC thread designed towards the IC goal of the Temporal Accord getting all time travelling nations to join your club... this isn't a guide so much as a recruitment drive, only it's metagaming in it's design.

So yeah, without being as outspoke as my friend, Der Angst, I don't like this guide. Take it or leave it, thats my opinion.

The fact that instead of giving sound impartial advise about developing this technology you have instead chosen to go on about how they should "Join the accord or be stopped from developing" suggests this is a OOC thread designed towards the IC goal of the Temporal Accord getting all time travelling nations to join your club... this isn't a guide so much as a recruitment drive, only it's metagaming in it's design.

So yeah, without being as outspoke as my friend, Der Angst, I don't like this guide. Take it or leave it, thats my opinion.

That is pretty much what I am thinking/starting to think more about myself. At the same time, they hold all the barganing chips because those that have a history of developing and understanding temporal technology have signed the accord and seem to aggresively pursue nations that don't both oocly and icly.

I've decided to step aside, as none of this will now apply to me. This thread has put me off ever attempting a time travel RP. I do have one set in an alternate dimension however.

Well, i've had my 2 cents. And as expected there are those who disagree. I now abdocate the floor to new comments from NS's elite and intellegent.

Actually, the more I read the first post to make sure I'm not making any assumptions, the more I see that this isn't a Guide thread...

(Just noticed your reply Xenonier, this post is a continuation of my previous post.)

A Guide Thread goes out of it's way to inform the reader of basic facts of the subject, a good start in this case would have been to describe the reality of time and cover subjects like how time is actually relative and not a universal constant. Then it would go into more and more facts about the subject helping people understand the basics so they may use it themselves and use it as a tool for their own developement.

Examples of good guides are guides like The Evil Overlords Guide to Logistics (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=275828).

You'll notice how in this case he describes the reality of logistics and lays down some basic ideas for the reader to use in their own roleplays... he doesn't go as far to set any rules which he's willing to enforce, more guidelines which he uses for himself.


Your guide, on the other hand seems to entirely go on about the Temporal Accord and how failing to join the Temporal Accord will mean they won't get access to technology... in fact it seems that where facts should be we are told about the Temporal Accord, an IC organisation which is ulimately just one small faction in a sea of small factions. It has no OOC power yet it's being constantly mentioned in this thread.

Personally, I think you better write this again, or better yet rename the thread to "Guide to Temporal Accord" because you don't actually say much about time, and when you finally do you have spent most the post talking about your IC accord.

In my view, it's not proper guide, but a recruitment policy which should be IC and not OOC.

What is to stop me from just ignoring the Temporal Accord?

The fact that you will be frowned down upon as a Noob, and will never get the chance to Roleplay with the respectable Rpers of NS. I'll take my chances.

Temporal Shields <snip!>

Temporal Weapons <snip!>I'm sorry, but that's wank. You're shooting time at me? Who are you? Lord Dunsany?

Temporal Energy Systems <snip!>Since everything is part of the "STC", then this is nothing more than pretty words.

Temporal Cores <snip!>Yeah, no. I'll play with time however I damn well please, thankyouverymuch. I don't want to use your cores, and I don't much care for you telling me that's the only way I can manipulate time. There are dozens of ways to manage FTL travel, I see no reason why I have to use whatever goofy method you've decreed.

Temporal Sensors <snip!>Feh. Reasonable enough, but like any sensor, it ain't 100%

How do you get started in the realm of temporal technology? Simple, the first step should be to sign the accord. This protects you from the repercussions should you cause an incident. Guess I'll just take my chances.

The next step should be to announce the beginnings of your research.This is pretty common to every tech advance...

Every two months, you will gain a level.When did we start playing table-top D&D? Can I multiclass? Can I have a Temporalwank Gun +5/+10 vs Dolphins?

Temporal technology should be used sparingly, as it can lead to the overuse of such weapons, and the decrease of tactics and good Role-play.Same thing goes for pointy sticks.

Methinks I'll ignore temporary technology and these rules. The former is ridiculous, and the latter are arrogant.

Same thing goes for pointy sticks.

If I find you've been using pointy sticks without signing my Stick Accord, I'll poke you with more pointy sticks than you could shake a... um... stick at!

Hmmm, I could use some of those /+10 against Dolphin weapons, for they be EVIL TIME TRAVELLING DOLPHINS OF DOOOOOOOOOM!

Lets say if I was to RP insurgents, who are dolphins, that have access to some kind of crazy and somewhat vague Temporal weapons, will they have to be signed up to your accord or will I be expecting the full backing of everyone who has, or everwill sign that? If your gonna use Time Travel you may as well use it with style and send all your reinforcements 10 years from now back through time. Though that would get you some odd looks, especially when they get some time off with the ladies.

Methinks I'll ignore temporary technology [...] The former is ridiculous [...]All depends on how you do it, I guess.

If I find you've been using pointy sticks without signing my Stick Accord, I'll poke you with more pointy sticks than you could shake a... um... stick at!I'll have you know that I am already a signatory of the Stick Attack Limitation Treaty!

I've never really understood why people complain so much about the Temporal Accord. It's just a way to standardize temp tech, so there is no confusion on what happens when you get shot with a temporal weapon or such. Sort of like how everyone agrees what a laser or railgun does, and any side effects it has. If someone claims that their laser, for no good reason, does not react violently with a Holtzmann field, they would generally get some funny looks. Even more so if they claim that not only did it ignore the Holtzmann field, it also disintegrated the entire target (ignoring pretty much everything we know about lasers).

I have a bunch on lasers in one of my other guides below... those weren't quite as controversial, and were generally accepted.

As for responce from one of the authors (IE Me), good luck any time soon, I have exams. You can ask Indra though.

I've never really understood why people complain so much about the Temporal Accord. It's just a way to standardize temp tech, so there is no confusion on what happens when you get shot with a temporal weapon or such.

Temporal Accord is a IC Organisation, as an IC organisation my nation generally doesn't really bother with it as it's our opinion (and OOC policy) that time travel simply doesn't work. So Iuthia just sees the Accord as a group of nations attempting to control a technology which doesn't exist and getting into fights about it... basically we just don't get involved with them and commented once on how we felt that their diplomacy plain sucked as they were very threatening in tone.

As a IC organisation, I don't have an real OOC issues with it... I don't really get involved in them but I frown at their bully tactics both in character and out of character.


This thread on the other hand is labelled as a "Guide to temporal technology" which actually reads as a guide on what the Temporal Accord will do to any new nations playing with time travelling technology. Instead of getting into any real facts about time travel at the start, it urges people to join their IC organisation and then goes on to impose rules stating that anyone who ignores their view would be concidered n00bs because they are the experts on time travel afterall.

The Temporal Accord thread on it's own is pretty acceptable, I don't argee with it but it's a IC thread about a IC organisation... this on the other hand is a educational thread which avoids actually educating the reader about the subject matter directly, but instead incists the reader should join their IC organisation (despite the fact this is a OOC guide) or not both to develope time technology at all.

So I don't see why the reaction they have got is a surprise. They are basically saying they are the powers of time travel and that people who don't listen to them will be ignored and would be concidered n00bs by the rest of nationstates, the guidance it does actually give advises people to join their accord, making it a OOC thread with IC bias.


Now lasers and railguns... both of these technologies are well beyond the point of theoretical, we have lasers and to a lesser extent we have the ideas of railguns on paper. But hell, even those have differing views... some nations will describe their lasers/phasers as being visible beams of light in the same way you would see them in films, however we all know that you can't really see lasers like that, it's just an effect used to make the whole thing look much more cool. Meanwhile there are various different views on how railguns and lasers are actually used, like how small you can make the weapons, how powerful they are and so on... in the end it's down to the individual nation to basically describe what they have based on their vision.

If it's unreasonable then more people are likely to ignore them, however you can RP whatever you like, like Space Dolphins, it's just that people may not want to deal with you if you constantly make out you are the best. The trick is to be reasonable and interesting. Ctan RPs his nations leaders as being the freaking Ctan from Warhammer 40'000, yet he isn't ignored all that often because he doesn't force his nation on others and he's a good RPer with alot of respect. Freeform works so long as everyone remembers that you can do anything and you can ignore anything... if someone isn't being reasonable then you don't have to bother with them and you'll both get bored unless you work something out, most people work something out or they follow the example of others.

The nations of the Temporal Accord can ignore nations which don't follow their rules, thats their choice... however it pisses me off (and apparently a few other people by the looks of it) when one of them writes a OOC thread designed to advise new players of an aspect of the game, but instead writes something more designed towards enforcing their rules on others and then going on to threaten that they will be ignored if they don't follow those rules and that anyone who thinks differently and doesn't bother with them would be concidered "n00bs".


Summary for those who can't be assed reading the post:

I don't mind someone posting a informative thread about time travel and how it works so that people can be more realistic. However, I do have a problem when someone writes a OOC guide thread which is actually just advising new players to join their IC organisation or be labelled n00bs.

OOC Thanks for the laugh. Mocked ..by you ..as noobs .. XD oh gods above I almost rank this up there with the "Space" thread.
Doc Out.

I accept what the people in the Temporal Accord are trying to do but I do not accept what the creator of this thread was doing. If you are going to make a guide then it should at least follow the title. Your title says it is about temporal technology. The guide itself barely mentioned temporal technology and instead went on and on about how you must sign the accord and if you have temp tech without signing the accord you'll be destroyed and so on. Next time you try and make a guide, make the guide and the title agree with each other.

Wow just wow, all I have to say is Iuthia, Der Angst, The Imperial Navy, Hagbard. Good work! Amzeing guys I respect you on an entirely new level now (so yay go!), and Xenonier I think you have an idea there lol. Any


(and for the record I would very rarely use temp tech, the only pace I have excessive temp tech ub3r research is in my black mesa/lambada labs some place in my space witch has omg security.)

My nations do not have the capacity to create temporal technology, and I generally do not have any abnormal temporal components in my role-plays. While it can be an amusing part of a controlled bit, temporal technology's full implications are irrelevant in the NationStates universe, where it can be ignored by anyone and any major effects require notification on an impossibly large scale and undivided participation, something that is impossible to achieve here. That said, I do not ignore temporal technology in general, provided that there is sufficient substance behind it.

I don't buy most arguments against temporal technology, because all future technology nations use made-up stuff to a large extent. I find it unethical to ignore temporal technology simply for its power. For the same reason, I also acknowledge all WMDs. In general, I think temporal technology is a waste of time because it simply cannot be successfully applied to NationStates, even if no one ignored it, which is certainly not the case. Mirfak is a member of the Temporal Accord for the dual reasons that I do not ignore temporal technology, but do not have it. The TA serves as a line of defense for me against those other nations that use temporal technology and would apply it against me.

Er... lets see, my ignore policies are generally centred around the the reasonablity of the technology being used, for example, how powerful it is and how it does what it does. With temporal weapons it would seem that they can create singularities and similar obcenely powerful affects which when you compare to my weapons which use magnetics to fire what can almost be described as "cannon balls" and my shielding which concists of "lots of armour" I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ignore technology which seems to start of obcenely powerful (read: making my 400'000 tons of space ship disapear) and get worse from there.

Oh, and lets not forget that attempting to make this vague technology myself, which is highly theoretical and only in the realm of science fiction, I would have to follow their rules about it or be ignored by them. Nevermind that science fiction is still a story and that imagining my own way of how it would work would be much more interesting then being dictated to by "the authority on temporal technology".

As if that wasn't enough I would then have to put up with either being pestered by them to join their accord for the good of the space time continum or get blasted into oblivion with this obcenely powerful wanky technology.


So yeah, you'll have to forgive me if I give it a miss, at least with other stuff it's usually balenced out and understood enough to be limited... however it would seem that the highler "level" nations with this technology can do pretty much anything with it which they make up.

I ignore technologies/weapons which I concider to be unreasonable, were someone to claim a Death Star (I know of a few) I would ignore that just as much, though it would depend on how they explain it.

The very nature of Freeform RP is about being able to claim whatever you like while also being able to ignore whatever you like... it balences out because most people accept reasonable claims and ignore stuff they concider to be unreasonable. Ironically enough, this thread sticks it's finger up to the entire idea of freeform RP and advises people to instead join the Temporal Accord... yet I don't actually see much of a guide in all this, there are some vague descriptions of weapons which use the Space Time Continum, but they don't go into any real detail or describe much in the way of the pro's and con's of temporal technology (accept that if you don't join the Temporal Accord today, you will never be allowed to have it, join now and get a free toaster!) and as such I'm complaining about it here.

I've not really said all that much in the actual Temporal Accord thread, maybe some IC comdemnations, one or two OOC comments to specific problems and arguements, but I've not actually gone out of my way to cause them harm.


So yeah... I don't think Temporal Technology will have much of a future when you get "guides" like this thread telling people to join a IC organisation instead of offering any real definitive advise about the technology in the first place.

If a nation is sensible with it's "Temporal Technology" and RPs it well enough I will probably accept it, but I've not really seen anything to try that out with... it's all wank to me.

If someone claims that their laser, for no good reason, does not react violently with a Holtzmann field, they would generally get some funny looks. Even more so if they claim that not only did it ignore the Holtzmann field, it also disintegrated the entire target (ignoring pretty much everything we know about lasers).

More likely, as with the 'turbolaser,' we would simply assume the device is only called a laser and isn't actually one at all [much like a 'phaser rifle' has no rifled barrel and yet is still called a rifle], thus explaining the observed effects without having to step outside suspension of disbelief.

That really screws up the analogy, doesn't it?

Iuthia makes a very good point. Indra Prime and the Temporal Accord attempt to excercise authority OOC that they don't really have. While I understand that their intentions are good in giving rules to this obscenely-powerful technology, they are abusing their right to ignore for the simple reason that they don't like people playing outside their "rules." The Temporal Accord is a benign force for the most part however, and though Indra Prime is somewhat conceited I'm still comfortable recieving their protection in case of a temporal incursion by some outside force IC.

What protection are they giving you...? If someone goes against your idea of how temporal technology should be, use your own - the Ignore Cannon - and obliterate them from your reality. You don't need an alliance of people to do that...

Ugh. "IGNORE Cannons" always struck me as a rather lame cop-out. If the player has half a brain, you should be able to work things out OOC. If they don't, then simply don't respond to them. How hard is that? Why do people have to post these horrifically huge pictures of cannons, Doga CG work, nukes, etc. etc. etc.?

Ugh. "IGNORE Cannons" always struck me as a rather lame cop-out. If the player has half a brain, you should be able to work things out OOC. If they don't, then simply don't respond to them. How hard is that? Why do people have to post these horrifically huge pictures of cannons, Doga CG work, nukes, etc. etc. etc.?Sometimes, the male specimen of $Species have very odd ways of expressing their (Perceived) genetic superiority. One of them is hiding their lack of sufficient breeding equipment by way of substituting it with external means.

Der Angst's poor taste in derogatory comebacks aside, temporal aspects of a roleplaying game can be interesting, provided that they are limited to a sphere of influence. I agree with Hagbard on this matter. While ignoring is a viable last resort to preserve a preset storyline or when OOC negotiation breaks down, I have never thought it valid to ignore anything simply because of its power. NationStates is, as everyone here seems to agree, free-form. Because of that, people are free to do as they wish in playing.

All that said, it becomes evident why ignoring has become such a widely-used tool. To be ignored by a nation is not a mark of shame, it simply indicates differing roleplaying philosophies. This is already evidenced in the roleplaying "cliques" that have developed throughout NationStates.

I have my philosophies of roleplaying, and I don't attempt to make other people agree with me. It is high time that people stopped fighting amongst themselves about who's style is superior. Nations that ignore certain nations or things may avoid those nations and things however they wish. In the meantime, it is unnecessary for conflicts to arise in all threads such as this.

I have my philosophies of roleplaying, and I don't attempt to make other people agree with me. It is high time that people stopped fighting amongst themselves about who's style is superior. Nations that ignore certain nations or things may avoid those nations and things however they wish.
I completely agree with this, nations can choose to ignore what they want for whatever reason they want, and I agree that it's not really right to try and force your own views of what reasons should and shouldn't be used for ignore.

However...
In the meantime, it is unnecessary for conflicts to arise in all threads such as this.
This I can't agree with... you'll notice that the Terporal Accords main thread hasn't really had this problem and they have on the whole been able to get on with their own business.

This thread on the other hand is a guide, it's sole perpose should be to properly inform the reader on how temporal technology works and provide useful factual information in a clear OOC way, perferable in as unbaised manner as possible. I've already established and argued for long enough that it has completely failed in this respect and provides very biased views on the technology and how to use it, i.e that you shouldn't have it without their approval.

They go on to dictate that ignoring their views means you are a n00b and that they are the authority on the subject, some of their statements could even be concidered OOC threats to those who would choose to do things differently.

As such, it is impossible for me not to react to it, to point out what I see as terrible flaws and argue against these kinds of threads.


I agree with your first statement, but that we shouldn't argue about it in threads like this? Hell no, this is a public thread advising new players on how to do something... personally I think it's obcenely biased and very incorrect and I'm completely justified in my responce against it.

I would even go as far to say that Der Angst's view is justified, given the very nature of threads claims in the first place. If you try and set rules for nationstates, strong criticism is to be expected.

It's a guide to one particular style. If you protest, my best suggestion is to make your own. Speaking out here will accomplish nothing except the generation of a long and fruitless debate in which nothing will change.

Er... I don't know about you, but when I protest I do it properly by protesting on the subject I have a problem in the hope that my protest is understood by those who wrote this thread so they can answer my criticism and with any luck correct the issues which were the start of my protest.

As for the "fruitless debate", I concider all my points so far to be more then reasonable and thorough, it's just that they haven't for the most part been addressed so this debate isn't really going anywhere simply because I there hasn't been much in the way of responce to our side of the arguement.

I don't see the point in creating my own guide based on a subject which is highly theoretical and hard to pin down with fact... Time Travel and other Temporal Technology is so far in the realm of science fiction that its very hard to cover the subject, what is easier to cover is the fact that science fiction is ulimately about the story and that normal science fiction roleplaying guides cover the guidelines on how to RP Future Technology, if we really must we could concider my own guide, "Iuthias Guide to Roleplaying in Space" as such a thread which basically gives advise on how roleplaying works in space and that it's ulimately a freeform environment. It's completely OOC and doesn't urge the reader to join a IC organisation or attempt to impose rules on them... it's just advise.

This thread, however, is highly biased and very imposing. They get very close to making threats... I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to reply to this. Why shouldn't my issues be adressed? People criticised my own guide on roleplaying in space and I made a point of defending my views and answering players concerns and issues because ulimately criticism is part of the process of improving yourself, learning from mistakes and working stuff out with people.

So far the reply I've gotten to my problems with this thread is limited to mostly you agreeing with some of it, offering a counter point to which I replied as one would expect in a debate. The writer of this thread is busy with real life issues, but so far hasn't replied for whatever likely valid reasons he has.

Just because we haven't gotten anywhere doesn't make my issue any less valid. Just because some people are more inclined to insult rather then argue doesn't make my point any less valid... I've been reasonable and I don't see why I should be told not to argue about this just because no one has addressed my concerns in a proper debate.

This is a public topic designed to help people, I feel it won't help people. Thus it's better to work something out then to flood the forums will more guides which are biased towards one persons way of thinking.

I see. I suppose you're right. I just don't see the use in it.

Neither do my friends on IRC, it's their opinion that it not worth my time trying to argue this because they don't think Indra Prima and Siesatia are even going to listen or take it seriously, however I like to give people the chance to work things out or at least explain themselves, I would like to think that they are better then my friends would have me beleive... and at the very least if I don't get a civil responce people will be able to think about what I've said and come to their own conclusions.

To just leave this thread alone because it's not nice to argue is like almost like an acception of the ideas given... I don't like the idea that somone may not understand that these people aren't the authority on Temporal Technology on nationstates and that ulimately they don't have to agree, which this thread seems to suggest that people must listen to them or be ostracized by the nationstates roleplaying community.

Thats my opinion, I'm sorry if my arguements seem a little aggressive, it's a hot subject and I'm annoyed at the thread, not you. You are just giving your opinion at the end of the day and I can't fault that, though I feel I must defend my own views on this thread.

Understandable. I cannot, nor will I try to stop you from doing as you wish. I'll retire from this thread now.

Hrm, I finally got around to responding to this, but I don't really have much to say. Mirfak said it was a style, and it is a style. This is a guide to the style, like Mirfak said. Sies, etc., may not be the authority on all temporal tech, but as far as I'm concerned, they are for this style or system of temporal tech. And also, as a sidenote, this has been giving TFU ammo to work with, which isn't something anyone wants :D

And I object to that style because it's highly biased and strongly against the interests of Freeform RP with threats made against people who ignore it to boot.

The fact that the Federal Union may be gloating because of the reaction to this thread (without really contributing to any of the arguements) would say something about him in the same way this Guide say alot about the leaders of the Temporal Accord and their arrogance. Deal with his gloating seperately, personally I wouldn't bother with any comment which isn't constructive criticism.

Eitherway, the criticism made towards this thread making you guys look bad isn't my problem, it can be solved easily enough assuming they can defend their view or conceed fault... every guide has to deal with it and the majority of them are improved because of it. People ask questions, questions are answered and if there are problems they get solved.

People ask questions, questions are answered and if there are problems they get solved.

Ah, but only if the "guide" author responds. Which... well...

The fact that you will be frowned down upon as a Noob, and will never get the chance to Roleplay with the respectable Rpers of NS.

Especially that part of the 1st post is enough for me never to sign the accord or to recognize it ICly. I mean, if people won't sign it does that classify them as a n00b? No.

An OOC post brought forth by an OOC Sirens of Titan

Ah, but only if the "guide" author responds. Which... well...

Well to be fair, he did say he was studying for an exam and it is that period of the year so I can't fault anyone for that.

I agree. Frankly, it was worded without tact. However, if you could give me a short while, perhaps I can help somewhat? I can a member of the TRC. Ask away, and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

i was hoping that some specialists and i could work together and produce something along the lines of a nation states time and space factbook.

i have recently written a breif guide to basics of the three dimensions, sub-space, real space and hyperspace and how they interact to make FTL travel work. The aim is to be able to take any type of star wars 'hyperspace' type feature and show that it is one of the three dimensions renamed.

Well, the only problem with that, which is the problem thier having with this is the restrictiveness of it. However, I'm trying to reverse that feeling, at least for this guide.

i was hoping that some specialists and i could work together and produce something along the lines of a nation states time and space factbook.

You may want to ask The Evil Overlord for a little bit of help or permission to use some of his own work to help give you the impression on how to write the sort of guide which will be concidered helpful and not semi-IC propaganda.

TEO's Guide to Orbital Mechanics (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=278778)

As you can see, The Evil Overlord hasn't opted to use his thread to further IC goals for an organisation he is part of, he's not even gone as far as to concider himself the authority in orbital mechanics. Instead he has provided an indepth guide which explains the basic terms and realities of Orbital Mechanics, his guide has been used by many to give their roleplay a sense of realism when they are shooting down satellites or putting them up into orbit.

This is, in my opinion, the way you should attempt to write your guide... providing useful OOC information on the realities of your subject in a language your reader can understand. The only problem I can see is that Temporal Mechanics is a highly theoretical science which is formed on many assumptions where as Orbital Mechanics have been proven and in use for many years now. Never the less, it would be very interesting and impressive if you managed to create something like this format of guide for your own ideas... perhaps even in conjunction with TEO. An important note to remember however is not to be too imposing with your guide. You'll notice that the aren't any threats in this guide, it's imformative, not insulting.


Moving on to JJR, you have to understand that it isn't so much that we have questions about this thread which need answering, but more questions about the intentions of this thread and alot of criticism about how it was written.

You can read all our criticism above, I can link the specific points if it would help but I imagine I really don't need to... in summary:

We feel this guide is little more then Temporal Accord propaganda written in the format of a OOC guide which doesn't actually help new players, but instead threatens them with ignores and bad reputation if they don't follow their line of thinking. The whole thing reads like a recruitment policy for a organisation which is In Character. On the whole, we strongly object to the entire thing, it's just not a guide at all and I can't imagine it helping new players understand anything more then that they will be bullied by a larger organisation.

Rather, I understand that. I was saying you could ask me about temporal technology. I'm planning on writing up a rough draft of a new Temporal Guide tonight, and scanning it by Indra and a few other people before posting it on the boards (In this thread or a new, one, your choice). If you would like to scan it before I post the new one, I would have no problem TGing or emailing the rough draft when it's done.

I'm happy so long as the next guide isn't about the Temporal Accord and is more about the subject it's supposed to be about, I'll admit that my understanding of Temporal Theory isn't really all that complete having only read a few books on the subject out of interest more then anything less.

My issue here is simply that this guide contains almost zero information on the technology and more on a IC organisation, the only information it provided was vague and secondary to information about joining the Accord.

So long as you keep the next guide well away from such In Character organisations, doesn't make any threats against players who don't use it and is more of a guide then a promotional piece I will likely look at it and leave it alone and let the guys who think they know something about it deal with the technological side... with a guide like that it would be simple enough to just edit any corrections made by other posters and it will get better as more people contribute.

It would probably need to be a new thread though, this guide is ruined without a doubt... even if they editted all the crap out of it (bringing it down to the very smallest amount of what was originally written it would still have much of the commentary remain.

All in all, I don't mind if a player tries to right a guide and gets it a little wrong on the facts, things can be corrected. This thread wasn't just a little wrong, it was biased, imposing and without any real factual content. Try your best to write a guide which attempts to help new players with information and facts and at least you were honest in your attempt to help them even if it isn't perfect.

Well then. Also, Iuthia, and don't take this offensively, you have made your point about the inadequacy of the present guide. I would personally appreciate it if you didn't continue to talk about Siesatia and Indra in such a disrespectful manner. They are both good friends of mine.

Basically, we're going to use this one as a test base, and go from there. Indra hasn't been on lately, but we will hammer out the full details later.

Now, back to SOLs.

I would personally appreciate it if you didn't continue to talk about Siesatia and Indra in such a disrespectful manner. They are both good friends of mine.

Odd, I feel that I've actually been rather respectful concidering the other replies I've seen in this thread and I've even made a point of telling others that Siesatia hasn't been able to post because of real life concerns. All of my points have been on topic and not at all personal or flamatory, I have offered advise on how it should be writen and even in my last post I concentrated on the inadequacy of the guide.

I agree, my arguement is made and with any luck there shouldn't be any reason for me to complain again... that doesn't mean I won't be looking at the update to see if any of the original problems remain and I hope I won't have to make repeat those arguements, but I will say my opinion and I'll keep to the subject at hand. I stand by my original arguements and points, I feel they were on point and well within the rules of the forum.

On the whole I'm happy people are prepared to redo this and I'm glad they understand why they should redo this, providing that the updated version is actually a guide I'll leave it alone, until then I've covered my view of the thread.

I don't disagree with your opinion whatsoever. This may be involuntary, but your responses seem overtly, superior I suppose the word would be. Never mind, I do the same all the time.

I'll admit it, I'm a arrogant bastard at times and it probably shows, but prefer being on point so it's hard to dismiss my bastardy opinion without addressing the actual points.

Never the less, I hope I haven't gone too far... it's just hard to say "thats really bad for new players" in such a detailed arguement without being disrespectful and when you read some of the stuff which was there I feel I showed alot more restraint then some of those before me.

But enough of this, I'll leave you guys to it.

Now that this mess is sorted out, Im going to ask that this thread be closed, so that I can work on a new guide, and this one can die. Iuthia if you care for some input, you can contact me on AIM: UthRptr2 or MSN: UthRptr2@yahoo.com. Or use my MSN as my E-Mail if you don't have either. I will make some time tonight to be on.

Thanks to all who contributed.