NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: The beginning(you guys agreeing to help or deciding to not help) will be semi-IC, status updates and other thing after will be mostly OOC

To: Space Union, Pushka, Soviet Bloc, and Credonia
From: Steven Miller - CEO of Silver Sky National Arms
RE: Help need to work on a new MBT for The Silver Sky, and possilbly for export.
------------------------------------------------

The Silver Sky has been in need of a new Main Battle Tank for sometime, untill now we have relied on foreign made tanks (Ex: Soviet Bloc's ST-21 Tank), but with the rapid expansion of our arms industry The Silver Sky sees the need to replace our armored forces with cheaper, more effective, national made tanks, Silver Sky National Arms has drawn up a prototype of the new Main Battle Tank, which will now be Known officialy as MBT-125A1 Freedom, after a long debate over the M-125 Freedom and it's rival designs, we have been chosen to manufacture the new tank, but being a relatively new arms company we need help from some expirenced nations and their arms companys. Here is the concept art for the MBT-125A1 Freedom (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Freedom2.jpg) (Note: I know you've all see it before, but this is a slighty update model, please look)

Your probably wondering why I asked your nations specifically, it is because in all of our time in the internation world you have shown yourselves to stick by your beliefs more then anyone else we have known. You are also trustworthy, and have a made excellent products, or have had excellent ideas (The NDS Missile Shield for example).
We chose Pushka because: You have a understanding of ballistic weapons (I hope this includes shells and ETC guns too), you are already working on a recoil system for our tanks, and you've had experince with lasers too.

We chose Space Union because: You are very honorable, and have had excellent ideas, and we are allied with you in about 2 alliances.

We chose Soviet Bloc because: I've long admired you work on the ST-21 tanks, the ST-29 tank, and your electronics package on your new Attack Helicopter, as well as the associcated weapons systems.

We chose Credonia because: You've been my longest ally out of you four, I know your busy with your nation, but we would really like your help on this project.

Of course we wouldn't expect you to do all this work for nothing, you will all be made a upfront payment of 10 billion USD each, and a ending payment of 60 billion USD each, this may be greater it all depends on our finicial situation when the project is completed, also you will all receive a complentary shipment of 5 MBT-125A1s upon project completion so you can test how these tanks match up agains your exisiting tanks, and if you would like to purchase more, all purchases will be free, and you will be able to receive limited production rights (No improvements or custom modifications) for 5 billion USD each, or total productions rights for 15 billion USD each, we hope you decide to help us in this great project.

Here are the bare stats:
1x 135mm ETC cannon
1x 15.5mm FN BRG-15 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg26-e.htm) armed COAX
2x 15.5mm FN BRG-15 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg26-e.htm) armed in swival turret on top of tank
1x 40mm Grenade launcher inbetween MGs in swival turret
2x Anti-Air Missile launchers, can also be armed with ATGM, when not in use, they lower so that they are 70% submerged into the turret, they raise to a 45 degree angle to launch
1x Laser Defence system
Weight: 80-90 tons
Height: about 9 feet (about 3 meters)
Length: about 30 feet (about 10 meters)

Steven Miller
CEO
Silver Sky National Arms

Authorized by: Jason Garner
President
The Silver Sky

---------------------------------------------------------
OOC: I hope you guys decide to help and note this will also be open to other allied nations who decide to help, of course they may not get the same benifits as you.
My recommendations for who does what, tell me if you think you would be better at something else.

Recoil and Weapons Systems (Includes Laser defence): Pushka, and any of you that have ideas
Electronic Warfare and Communications(RADAR, lidar, ECM, ECCM, etc.): Soviet Bloc, Space Union
Armor: Credonia, and anyone else who has ideas.

I suggest you exchange IMs or use TGs to communicate with each other and me

ooc: I'm surprised you didn't mention me. Anywho, I can help you with the tank, got MSN?

ooc: I'm surprised you didn't mention me. Anywho, I can help you with the tank, got MSN?
OOC: Oh, s**t sorry, forgot about you, my MSN is alfredo_f_vera@msn.com, and me to your contact list, what part of the tank do you think you would be the best at designing.

Okay, I'm checking in. We'll be more than happy to help you in this venture. I was also thinking about another MBT for my armed forces because of the rapid retirement of already 3 tanks. I'm currently having this serve in my army full-time with another one being developed by domestic companies.

Electronic Systems (here are just a couple of ideas):

Shtora-1
Arena
MASER System
Laser Finder System
Some sort of electronic jamming system

I'll post some more later on.

Is it possible for me to be put in the Armor and Countermeasure section? I'm best at that kind of stuff and have some great ideas on it.

OOC: Note Under the advice from MassPwnage, the main cannon has been changed to:
1x 135mm ETC cannon

IC: Silver Sky National Arms would like to thank MassPwnage for joining the team

The gun? Hmm, well i just consulted Soviet Bloc on the idea i had, but i don't think i should give it to someone else before i even use it myself. I like big guns, a 152 mm cannon, and some kind of a special armor piercing ATGM to be fired out of it. As for ETC, its for some reason widely popular, i myself however prefer a system called ELGG, just to try to stay original. I'll explain more once i have time, i got to run right now.

The gun? Hmm, well i just consulted Soviet Bloc on the idea i had, but i don't think i should give it to someone else before i even use it myself. I like big guns, a 152 mm cannon, and some kind of a special armor piercing ATGM to be fired out of it. As for ETC, its for some reason widely popular, i myself however prefer a system called ELGG, just to try to stay original. I'll explain more once i have time, i got to run right now.
Ah, cool, remember this is only the beginning, anything can change, thanks for taking part.

OOC: I've done some research and figured out a possible exotic armor that could be used. It is just an idea so it may be changed.

IC:

My scientist have been conducting tests to figure out the best possible way to ensure survivability of an MBT on the battlefield. Most of the information has been developed from the knowledge gained from the J-4 Juggernaught vehicle. One of the tests was on a Memory Metal and here some ideas on the project:

Armor:

Made from a metal called Titanium-MM (classified) that is part of the family of metals called Memory Metals (MM). Its properties allow it to bend and then bend back to its originial form. It is tough and flexible giving it characteristics of Titanium. Hence the name Titanium-MM. It can be adapted as a 1st layer armor for a series of 3 layers. The properties allow the metal to be hit by a shell and then cause a dent. The dent would then return back to its normal stance unharmed. This would cut the destruction of armor by two times. That would result in a decrease in maintaince cost associated with the repairing of damaged armor. Underneath the Titanium-MM layer would be a layer of composite material, titanium, and chrome metals. There would be a 1 inch gap between it and the 1st layer allowing the dent to not affect the second layer. The last layer would be stainless steel-reinforced. It would be a safety procaution although it could be removed easily if nessassary to reduce weight when the life of the crew is not in severe danger.

Problems:

The dent takes 10 minutes to go back to its normal state. If the enemy tanks has an exceptionally good firing system, it would make it possible to hit the dent repeatedly causing damage to the 1st and 2nd layers of armor.

Possible Solution:

Scientist have found that heating up the dent causes much faster rate of recovery. If enough heat was given to the area, it might be possible to conduct recovery in a little over 1 minute. Heating could be done through contained plasma or through the use of liquid copper.

I would suggest filling the space up with buckyballs, which have an amazing ability to absorb kinetic energy.

An example: A buckyball sheet was tossed at a steel wall at 15,000 MPH and still managed to keep its structural integrity.

Hmmm, both are very good ideas, I hope work progresses quickly and Credonia and Soviet Bloc come online soo.

I would suggest filling the space up with buckyballs, which have an amazing ability to absorb kinetic energy.

An example: A buckyball sheet was tossed at a steel wall at 15,000 MPH and still managed to keep its structural integrity.

Interesting and Amazing :eek: So what your saying is put a sheet of buckyballs between the first and 2nd layer of armors.

OOC: Just wondering if anyone wants g-mail for free, just e-mail my your e-mail address, and I'll send you a invite, you can also sign up for a .NET passport and sign up for MSN IM with it, I did.

ooc: yes, do it, but try to remember, buckyballs cost about $1 a gram, try not to go overboard with those.

Ouch, that's a steep price, but i think i can handle it, this tank will be worth it.

That's going to hurt. I think we will use a maximum of 100,000 grams for the entire vehicle. That will up the cost by $100,000 although that doesn't seem to bad.

Also what is estimated to be the price of the MBT-X125A1?

That's going to hurt. I think we will use a maximum of 100,000 grams for the entire vehicle. That will up the cost by $100,000 although that doesn't seem to bad.

Also what is estimated to be the price of the MBT-X125A1?
Hmm, I was thinking some where in between $10 million USD and $14 million USD, how does that sound?

Hmm, I was thinking some where in between $10 million USD and $14 million USD, how does that sound?

That sounds reasonable. Probably will come out around the $12 million range. Any higher will make it harder to compete with other tanks on the market.

I'm also going to apply a composite paint material called QuietSound that reduces emitted sound by 15 decibels. That would provide us some stealth at night-time.

Sounds good, my friend, or should I say it doesn't sound good, lol

and to anyone who wants it I still have 50 g-mail invites, just e-mail me at nexus05@gmail.com oh, and include your name (first and last) I need it for the invite form.

bump

I would suggest filling the space up with buckyballs, which have an amazing ability to absorb kinetic energy.

An example: A buckyball sheet was tossed at a steel wall at 15,000 MPH and still managed to keep its structural integrity.

Negative. I've asked every major chemist in Chula Vista and California that I know...Buckyballs under no circumstances can bond with diamonds or any other sort of hard material - and buckyballs on themselves won't do shit - it's just a matrix bondage.

Quiz:
1: Do you feel the urge to *bump* 24/7?
2: Do you post more *bumps* then the thread starter?
3: Do you *bump* threads that aren't yours?
If you answered Yes to any of these questions then you must be Space Union!

But no really I was just about to *bump* this, so does anyone have any ideas? And or questions?
Also Soviet Bloc has agreed to help with this tank.

That's going to hurt. I think we will use a maximum of 100,000 grams for the entire vehicle. That will up the cost by $100,000 although that doesn't seem to bad.

Also what is estimated to be the price of the MBT-X125A1?

[OOC: For an MBT as large as this don't count on it being so cheap. Enough buckyballs for a tank, and diamond armor, theoritically [but impossible as I've said before], would cost over 100 million USD. Making the tank not worth the cost.]

Hey, The Macabees do you want to help, it would be appreciated.

Hey, The Macabees do you want to help, it would be appreciated.

*deletes last message* Sure!

Alright, a few things - sorry if this gets boring, and blah.

1. Well, on my own tank I use a 120mm ETC gun. You technically could field an 135mm ETC gun, and not expect your tank to flip over. However, I don't suggest it. One of the most overlooked aspects of MBT design on NationStates is crew and crew comfort. A larger ETC gun means a larger propellant and hydraulic machinery in the rear, consequently, in the turret. The more space taken up by the gun in the turret means the less space for your crew. Moreover, a larger gun needs larger shells. Larger shells needs larger hydraulics. Larger hydraulics weigh more, and cost more room. Consequently, less room for your crew means poor preformance. Poor preformance means less accuracy, and less velocity in terms of reaction time.

I rather suggest a 120mm Smoothbore cannon. Although it is rather banal in the way that the Abrams uses it, and the Abrams is considered a bad tank by NS standards, I think it's the best choice. It requires to super heavy hydraulic systems, and with the expansion of the turret, as seen in your render, your crew should feel like they're in a limo - happy crews equal accurate tanks.

In the end, the 120mm Smoothbore with a DU SABOT will pierce through any armor on the field anyways. So what's the point of embellishing the tank with a pointless ETC?

2. I see two rocket launcher type things in the rear. I don't suggest that. Shrapnel will peel those right off, and logistically your job to repair will become a nightmare, because in every action you get into, those two external rocket launcher things are going to get swept off.

--------

I can work on a fire and control system for the tank. I'm researching to end the design on the Argonaut for my ships, and so that should help with creating a more compact version for the tank.

Quiz:
1: Do you feel the urge to *bump* 24/7?
2: Do you post more *bumps* then the thread starter?
3: Do you *bump* threads that aren't yours?
If you answered Yes to any of these questions then you must be Space Union!

But no really I was just about to *bump* this, so does anyone have any ideas? And or questions?
Also Soviet Bloc has agreed to help with this tank.

Not possible. I don't feel the urge to *bump* 24/7 ;) That means I'm not Space Union! Imposter! Just kidding

The Macabee is right. Enemy can just target those babies and knock them right off. Instead you should make them interior with protection.

Well, I can provide the entire ST-29K2 electronics package, maybe a heavy update.


For armament, I think you should talk to Pushka, I talked to him over TG and we came up with a cannon that should work quite well. A 105mm electro-thermal cannon with the updates we figured out [his original idea, I modified it a bit], and you could, very well, exceed whatever you'd expect out of a 120mm to maybe even 135mm conventional main gun.

Size and weight of the 105 should be roughly equivalent to a 120mm conventional, possibly a bit larger, but it'd provide for more armor [or speed if you want it] than a 120mm electro-thermal.


If you want, I can also provide active defense systems, maybe even the secondary armament, if you want it. Otherwise I'd say add on a 40mm automatic crew-served [with the ability to fire it from within the vehicle with its own electro-optical and maybe infrared sights] grenade launcher, that'll give you the ability to effectively use it in an urban environment. Also, armored cupolas, unless you intend to use it strictly for field armor duties.

It's up to Silver Sky but I'm a pro with LIDAR/LADAR so I can design a pretty mean system with that. As for the armor, I think we should use a triple layer of CHOBHAM or CERMAT, another one of MEXAS, and making the third layer, or the top layer, ERA. I have to see SBs armor, but I have some problems with it I'll address if he ever posts it up here.

I don't intend on using my armor, not sure which you're talking about [AERA II probably], but I'm in the process of developing a conventional armor, which should top about anything out, I just have to see if its possible [I'm sure it is, but some nano-engineering is necessary].

Well all of the above ideas are good, and I'm gonna include a 40mm grenade launcher, but not on the pic, I'll say it'll be mounted next to the 15.5mm MG, but I do have a urban combat vehicle, so it'll only be optional

*bump* Currently progressing on MSN IM

Well since we're all being generous, i'd like to offer my soft-kill Naupir-1 system to be installed on this tank and my GTO recoil system, i'll TG all thats stuff to you tommorow if you want.

Well since we're all being generous, i'd like to offer my soft-kill Naupir-1 system to be installed on this tank and my GTO recoil system, i'll TG all thats stuff to you tommorow if you want.
lol, well at least your guarentted(sp?) that I won't turn on any of you, and i'm gonna carefully screen who gets these, and if I do export to non-allies they will get a less lethal version, and sure you can TG the specs to me, I might be home from school again tomorrow, i'm still not feeling well.

Also i am not sure if this is a good idea but my BDU rocket launcher might come in handy. I was never critisized for it, so i don't know, anyways, anybody wants to critiseze it? Its installed on my GAT-17 MBT, check my sig for the military thread and one of the links in the military thread will lead you to it. Please let me know if anything is wrong with it.

I also been thinking about an anti-aircraft system for a tank, if it works out i think we'll have a pretty killer anti-aircraft defense. We'll see...

Ok another change to the design, hopefully the last one.

2x 15.5mm FN BRG-15 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg26-e.htm) armed in swival turret on top of tank
1x 40mm Grenade launcher inbetween MGs in swival turret
2x Anti-Air Missile launchers, can also be armed with ATGM, when not in use, they lower so that they are 70% submerged into the turret, they raise to a 45 degree angle to launch

The Triancian Government looks at this program with excitment. A cooperative engagement by such major powers to produce a Next Generation Main Battle Tank will no doubt produce a superior product.

Although it was not asked of us, the Federal Kingdom would like to offer some small assitance. Weather accepted or not, we look forward to the finished product.

Regards,
Robert Wernick,
Triancian Secretary of Defense

The Triancian Government looks at this program with excitment. A cooperative engagement by such major powers to produce a Next Generation Main Battle Tank will no doubt produce a superior product.

Although it was not asked of us, the Federal Kingdom would like to offer some small assitance. Weather accepted or not, we look forward to the finished product.

Regards,
Robert Wernick,
Triancian Secretary of Defense
We are glad that an outside nation has shown interest in our project, we also hve no doubt in the abilites of our partners.
What kind of assistance could you offer, we are interested.

Regards,
Steven Miller
CEO of Silver Sky National Arms

OOC: Ok, you can post details now.

*Bump*
Ok heres a sitrep:
Armor: Currently Being debated
Weapons: 1x 15.5mm MG COAX
2x 15.5mm MGs in coupla(sp?) turret
1x MK-19 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher mounted in Coupla turret
1x 105mm (Currently debating the caliber) ETC cannon with Electro-Thermal Magnetic Assist (ETMAS)
Electronics(Defence/Offense/Communications): Have them but details need to be posted
Engine/Powerplant: Debating

Well that's the situation right now.

TSS:

Have you done the Laser Defense System yet? I have one for the M-26UMX (the massively underweight, crappy one) and ahve done for quite a few tanks, and they seem to have gone down well. I could offer it, if you want.

As for Electronic Systems, I second Arena and Shorta-1. As for Armor, the guidelines me, Crookfur and Bisons went with for some time was Steel - Titanium - Tunsgte - Steel. It works quite nicely.

As for guns, I might downgrade from the pointless ETC crap, and just stick with 138mm Smoothbore Gun's. I'd rather stay conventional.

TSS:

Have you done the Laser Defense System yet? I have one for the M-26UMX (the massively underweight, crappy one) and ahve done for quite a few tanks, and they seem to have gone down well. I could offer it, if you want.

As for Electronic Systems, I second Arena and Shorta-1. As for Armor, the guidelines me, Crookfur and Bisons went with for some time was Steel - Titanium - Tunsgte - Steel. It works quite nicely.

As for guns, I might downgrade from the pointless ETC crap, and just stick with 138mm Smoothbore Gun's. I'd rather stay conventional.
Well, I'll have to wait until the others come online, and i'm gonna base my Laser Defense System on the one Russia has made for their T-90 (Yes they have one, I've seen it on a video before, it kicks a**), and Soviet Bloc has agreed to give me his electronics package from his ST-29K tank, and armor is still up for decisions, we've got a couple of good ideas, I'll keep your idea under consideration.

And by using a 105mm ETC cannon I'd have the penetration power of a 120mm coventional gun as well as more with ETMAS, and a 120mm ETC ETMAS cannon would give me better results then your 138mm, as well as increased tank speed or armor.

Glad to be of service :D

And by the way, I am keeping the 135mm ETC for now. My tanks are purpose designed for ETC, and have been for a while.

Any more armored vehicle projects in process?

Glad to be of service :D

And by the way, I am keeping the 135mm ETC for now. My tanks are purpose designed for ETC, and have been for a while.

Any more armored vehicle projects in process?
lol
No more armored vehicles projects for now, I wouldn't want to dump all that work on my allies/friends :D , but I have made a IFV, a moblie SAM vehicle, and a Urban Combat Vehicle, but those are for later, I need all this help so that hopefully i'll be able to develop my own tanks/armored vehicles later.

Cool.

I had every Military Vehicle imaginable at one point, but they have dissapeared off the face of the forums because they havent been bumped for so long.

I still have the pics!

Cool.

I had every Military Vehicle imaginable at one point, but they have dissapeared off the face of the forums because they havent been bumped for so long.

I still have the pics!
lol
You gotta *bump* those things, and hopefully someone comes online and starts to post, cause I'm getting bored :D

*bump while waiting for everyone to come online*

Triancia, sadly, cannot offer much in the way of advanced tank design. The majority of Triancian R&D has been to persue advanced aircraft and naval forces, with slight redirections toward infantry technology. The bulk of Triancia's armored forces are ABT-17A3's, home grown models of the M60A3 Patton. Most of the information we have on Next Generation armor comes from the extensive examination of the TS-21, for which we have purchased production rights.

However, I am happy to say that we have a number of capable scientist who are experianced with battlefield information technology, thanks to our aforementioned aerospace research programs. We would be willing to send the scientists, along with a few of our own armor experts, to help with this tank's design process.

Regards,
Robert Wernick,
Triancian Secretary of Defense

Triancia, sadly, cannot offer much in the way of advanced tank design. The majority of Triancian R&D has been to persue advanced aircraft and naval forces, with slight redirections toward infantry technology. The bulk of Triancia's armored forces are ABT-17A3's, home grown models of the M60A3 Patton. Most of the information we have on Next Generation armor comes from the extensive examination of the TS-21, for which we have purchased production rights.

However, I am happy to say that we have a number of capable scientist who are experianced with battlefield information technology, thanks to our aforementioned aerospace research programs. We would be willing to send the scientists, along with a few of our own armor experts, to help with this tank's design process.

Regards,
Robert Wernick,
Triancian Secretary of Defense
We thank you for joining the design team, but untill the others arrive progress will be pretty slow.

Steven Miller
CEO - Silver Sky National Arms

*bump* Where is everybody? :confused:

*bump* Well one person is online.

*bump*

Checking in. I'm going to put in some ideas later on.

Alrighty, my powerplant, tracks and suspension ideas. This is ripped off directly from my upcoming T-100 tank.

Design Notes:

Engine, Suspension, Transmission, Tracks:

The 2100 horsepower diesel electric hybrid is the peak example of a tank engine. This engine offers the T-100V2 a horsepower to weight ratio of 45 hp per ton, which is much greater than that of its major potential competitors. Because of this the tank can accelerate from 0-20mph in under 4 seconds. The engine also has features that make it fuel efficient and responsive as well as powerful. The first feature is that the electric and diesel motors can work separately or in tandem, depending on the situation. When the tank is moving a constant velocity, the batteries and part of the diesel either shut off, or only part of the diesel is used to propel the tank while the other part recharges the batteries and gun compulsator. When the tank accelerates, the batteries discharge some of their extra power to assist the engine; this extra power gives the T-100V2 positively brutal acceleration. So much so, that when the gas pedal is “floored” and a proper incline is provided, the tank will literally fly into the air. Another feature of the engine it is lined with both digital and analog sensors that connect to the main computer, this allows the driver to monitor the status of engine and make any power related adjustments needed. In order to make such adjustments rapidly, the engine is controlled through a drive by wire computerized system that operates much more quickly and responsively than its manual counterparts, although an emergency manual drive system is included in case the digital drivetrain fails. A third feature is that every time the brakes are used, the energy that the tank loses recharges the batteries somewhat. The last feature is that the engine automatically turns off when not in use. This is done both in order to conserve fuel and to reduce the infrared and acoustic signature of the tank. The engine can start up again quickly because some hot exhaust gases are kept in reserve in a small thermos like “bottle” near the engine. The gases are re-inserted when the accelerator is pressed down again. Also, the batteries can assist in start up, because shutting off the engine temporarily saves more power than restarts consume.

The transmission is an electrostatically based, computer controlled, fully continuously variable transmission. The transmission operates through control by small electric motors shifting positions in order to divert power output to the tires. The motors are cooled by a liquid coolant pumped around self sealing tubes around the transmission structure to prevent overheating. The computer control has various sensors located in or around the transmission linked to the main drive computer. Thus by analyzing loss behavior in the transmission, the computer can find a way to correct for any potential errors in operation, as well as attempt to find the optimal ratio for the combustion of fuel to transfer of power. This way, the tank can save fuel and get as much power onto the ground as possible.

The suspension is an imitation of the magnetically based Bose suspension. The suspension operates by using a linear electromagnetic motor instead of a spring or strut to create motion between the tank, tracks and ground. This suspension configuration allows for much greater track and wheel stability, as the suspension can respond much more quickly to irregularities in terrain than a mechanical suspension can, especially when aided by specially tuned computer sensors that feed back to the main computer. The suspension is controlled by various actuators and amplifiers that bring and return power to the suspension system, the suspension, by being able to reclaim lost power, uses only 1/3rd the power the air conditioning and sound system combined use.

The new wheel and track system combines some old, proven technology with new and revolutionary technology. The tracks are double pinned, heavy duty, industrial sealant reinforced, landmine resistant, high traction pieces of equipment that are resistant to many of the dangers faced by tank tracks on previous generation tanks. The wheels are also reinforced, to prevent breakage.

There are multiple methods that the T-100’s designers have utilized to make sure that the tank’s tracks remain durable and resistant to damage. The most important damage resistant feature of the tank is that the joints of the tracks are reinforced with high flexibility industrial sealant used to seal the joints in vats of molten metal. The sealant is highly resistant to concussion, heat and kinetic energy, and remains highly flexible through a huge range of temperatures. The sealant is also nearly impossible to stretch, or tear apart, only flexing very slightly as the tracks move around the tank’s wheels. The tracks are also double pinned, meaning that they are dual layered. The first layer is made up of metal, with a pin in the center. Attached to each of the pins is a panel of the 2nd layer of track, which is constituted out of a heat and concussion resistant, high impact, yet flexible high grip polymer similar to the industrial sealant used to join the tracks. The 2nd layer and the pins can easily be replaced if they are blown off in combat.

The wheels and roller components are hugely strengthened to prevent battle damage. The rollers and wheels are strengthened by high strength carbon fiber composites and tungsten carbide spokes running through them. They can resist fire from up to 30mm rounds and a several light anti-vehicle mines or one heavy anti-vehicle mine.

I'll be more than glad to help you. Since Im so great with air defense systems, perhaps i could design a better Anti-Air missile for the tank which could be lighter, smaller, more lethal and would allow the tank to carry more missiles. Should be interesting.

Main gun wise i might have something for you by the end of the week. Me and Soviet Bloc have been chatting about the idea i head, he created a gun design that has the system which i thought of. I critisized it a bit, still waiting for a response from him, my main gun design gonna be a parallel to his but different, it is gonna use the system which we put together but the rest is gonna be different. As i said, by the end of the week i'll have it, after that i'll make my GAT-17U "Komsomolets" and maybe give you the main gun design, unless of course you'd rather go with Soviet Bloc, if he offers it to you. As for the systems i already mentioned, i'll give the specs tomorrow, you can see them for yourself by going to my military thread (link in the sig) and clicking GAT-17 "Gussar" link. So just do that.

I'll be more than glad to help you. Since Im so great with air defense systems, perhaps i could design a better Anti-Air missile for the tank which could be lighter, smaller, more lethal and would allow the tank to carry more missiles. Should be interesting.

Wait right there, i am designing an anti-aircraft system for my own tank, and will probably give it to Sylver Sky as well. I am interested in your missile. TG me please if you're interested in a joint prject as well.

Here is a link to the "Gussar" you get GSO system and Naupir-1

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8784827#post8784827

Check your TG's

The engine, although well thought out, and certainly powerful enough, is pointless, sorry to say. A 2100 horsepower engine will make so much noise and so much of an IR signature, that your tank isn't going to get very far - no matter how much armor it has...it's just going to be picked off.

Remember guys, heavier and stronger isn't better - as the Second World War and all subsequent wars proved. Moreover, a 2100 horsepower engine negates the weight to gear ratio because it weighs so much itself. Furthermore, the diesel this thing chugs down makes the engine not worth the effort - sure you may produce enough barrels of petroleum to power thousands of these things, but your logistics are going to be tied up the ass fueling these things.

I seriously suggest putting down the weight on these things. If you stick with Chobham armor (a combination of titanium fibers, steel and ceramics, plus a bunch of other classified materials) you can make this tank fly at 40 to 60 mph with a 1,500 horsepower engine - with a really, really good weight to power ratio...and it wont overtax your transmission.

Just my two cents...

Hey mac, how is that reply to that TG i sent you a month ago?

Hey mac, how is that reply to that TG i sent you a month ago?

Can't get to the NS window - it's blocked by my Vagina Mcginestine school internet.

Wait right there, i am designing an anti-aircraft system for my own tank, and will probably give it to Sylver Sky as well. I am interested in your missile. TG me please if you're interested in a joint prject as well.

Pushka, although it certainly is a lucrative idea to place a surface to air missile on your tank I really don't suggest it. Normally armored columns are mixed with surface to air batteries (either SAMs or AAA), and that's what keeps them safe - but never would someone arm a tank with a surface to air missile. To have one that's effective would mean that your missile would have to be at least five to seven feet long, meaning that the missile will stick out of the tank and that the tank's profile will be negated by the profile of the missile.

Furthermore, as I'm stressed before, missiles take space, and space is not something a tank has enough of!

If anyone read the description of the armor, could someone tell me what they think we could use to put enough heat on-to the dent to cause it to have rapid recovery.

Pushka, although it certainly is a lucrative idea to place a surface to air missile on your tank I really don't suggest it. Normally armored columns are mixed with surface to air batteries (either SAMs or AAA), and that's what keeps them safe - but never would someone arm a tank with a surface to air missile. To have one that's effective would mean that your missile would have to be at least five to seven feet long, meaning that the missile will stick out of the tank and that the tank's profile will be negated by the profile of the missile.

Furthermore, as I'm stressed before, missiles take space, and space is not something a tank has enough of!

Thanks for advice, but i got a pretty good idea of how to do this efficiently and lauch a multi-purpose missile, actually two ways.

Mass Pwnage your design sounds great, and The Macabees your idea has also been noted, we need a vote of who has the better idea

Credonia glad too see you could make it, I hope you and Pushka can come up with a great AA Missile System

So here's a sitrep:
Weapons: 110mm or 105mm ETC gun with ETMAS (This is pending Pushka's and Soviet Bloc's design)
1x 30mm single barrel chaingun COAX (Think M2 Bradley's Bushmaster)
2x 15.5mm MG armed in rotating turret atop tank
1x 40mm Auto-Grenade Launcher inbetween MGs in rotating turret
2x AA Missile Launchers (Angled 45 degrees at firing, lowers so that it is 80% submerged into the turret when not in use) Also can be armed with ATGM's
(Note: The tank carries only 12 extra missiles(No more no less, and they don't have to be big missiles, think stinger sized or slightly bigger), it's only a precaution in case all SAMs in the armored colomun are taken out)

Armor: Many designs, I want you all to TG me your Ideas and i'll post them here in one long post

Recoil: Pending Pushka's and Soviet Bloc's designs

Engine/Suspension/Transmission/Tracks: MP's design, The Macabees toned down design(and pending others designs) Again TG me your designs and I'll post them in one long post.

Electronics: Soviet Bloc's ST-29K's system (Pending others submissions, and my own little tweeks ;) )

Tell me if I missied anything. :D

The space difference between a 110mm and a 105mm ETC is going to be fairly small, but it's the small things that count because you're going to have so many other systems at this rate that your crew is going to be cramped into sardine cans. Look, a 105mm ETC might not pack such a large punch as opposed to the 110mm but the larger punch isn't necessary. A 105mm with the penetrating power of a 120mm Smoothbore - plus DU rounds on top of that - is more than enough to destroy any other tank on the field, regardless of the armor - in fact, tank designs are getting to a point where designers just want to look smart so that they fill their tanks with bullshit... it's just not necessary.

I'll get my LIDAR system up so time after prom [this Saturday].

In regards to an anti-aircraft missile system, I would think that Soviet Bloc's modular weapons system equipped on both his TS-21 and -29 tanks should be emulated, giving the certain tanks the roll of air defender, and certain others with added power against other armor.

The missile itself should be a vehicular version of a man-portable design. While this may sacrifice some performance, it makes more sense logistically. The Federal Kingdom would suggest the SA-33, produced by their ally, Mekugi, at ALPHAtech. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=399641)

Triancian scientists aren't experts in engine design, but those with practical armor experience would applaud a hybrid engine, citing, again, logistical concerns, and the need for less fuel.

The first suggestion the Triancian team would recommend is that the cannon be a surprisingly primitive 105mm smoothbore. This, of course, is more political than practical; as certain members of the Triancian military are loathe to discard the huge storage of 105mm shells stocked for the country's massive Patton fleet. Private, the Triancian team would like to see are larger smoothbore gun, around 120-125mm. Almost all of the team, including those working with Triancia's first home-grown TS-21 prototypes, are wary of the reliability of such 'new' technology as an ETC gun.

OOC: The link to Mekugi’s storefront is reproduced without his notification, and in no way indicates his support or disapproval.

The space difference between a 110mm and a 105mm ETC is going to be fairly small, but it's the small things that count because you're going to have so many other systems at this rate that your crew is going to be cramped into sardine cans. Look, a 105mm ETC might not pack such a large punch as opposed to the 110mm but the larger punch isn't necessary. A 105mm with the penetrating power of a 120mm Smoothbore - plus DU rounds on top of that - is more than enough to destroy any other tank on the field, regardless of the armor - in fact, tank designs are getting to a point where designers just want to look smart so that they fill their tanks with bullshit... it's just not necessary.

I'll get my LIDAR system up so time after prom [this Saturday].


With our system added an 105mm ETC gun will probably be more powerful then a 110 mm ETC gun, of course thats just an assumption, but for the lack of a way to practice this theory, we must believe a theory. Also penetration is only one issue, range is the other.

We should also develop some kind of ATGM to be fired from the main gun.

Credonia can help with that as well. We specialize in missile design

So here's another sitrep:
Weapons: 105mm ETC gun with ETMAS (Actual designs pending Pushka's and Soviet Bloc's designs)
1x 30mm single barrel chaingun COAX (Think M2 Bradley's Bushmaster)
2x 15.5mm MG armed in rotating turret atop tank
1x 40mm Auto-Grenade Launcher inbetween MGs in rotating turret
2x AA Missile Launchers (Angled 45 degrees at firing, lowers so that it is 80% submerged into the turret when not in use) Also can be armed with ATGM's
(Note: The tank carries only 12 extra missiles(No more no less, and they don't have to be big missiles, think stinger sized or slightly bigger), it's only a precaution in case all SAMs in the armored colomun are taken out)

Armor: Many designs, I want you all to TG me your Ideas and i'll post them here in one long post

Electronics: Soviet Bloc's ST-29K's system (Pending others submissions, and my own little tweeks ) and The Macabees LIDAR system

note this is only the thing we've made progress on (sorta :p )

I'll take your help offer Credonia, thanks. As for the ETMAS, i disagree with Soviet Bloc on a few aspects of it, i am still waiting for him to TG me back with the response, anyways, my system will be "slightly" different then his.

Hopefully you and Credonia make some real headway, and hopefully you and Soviet Bloc's design differences get settled.

*BUMP*

Alrighty Mac... about the engine. Heat shielding and sound deadening in the engine compartment can reduce engine noise and heat signatures. Secondly, the horsepower I mentioned is peak horsepower, which is quite high, because the engine is relatively high in displacement, due to the fact that most tanks have spare space leftover in their designs, spare space that i'm using for the engine and the batteries. Normally however, the engine only uses 1/3rd its peak horsepower when it's moving at a constant velocity even while operating its main gun and all the electronic systems at the same time, only when the tank is accelerating is the peak horsepower utilized, and only briefly in order to accelerate the tank to a fast speed. And the engine can be made from new composites that decrease weight without sacrificing performance.

On the gun issue:

I suggest we imploy just 1 110mm ETC gun. That way the gun is powerful but not heavy as a 120 mm ETC or 2 105mm guns. Having two guns brings the total weight high and the rate of fire slags along with performance. It also brings into the effect of the tank possibly flipping over when firing.

Some people here want a conventional gun while others want an ETC gun. I think we need a hybrid between the two. Bring the less weight of the conventional gun with the power of the ETC gun.

Credonia check your telegrams.

On the gun issue:

I suggest we imploy just 1 110mm ETC gun. That way the gun is powerful but not heavy as a 120 mm ETC or 2 105mm guns. Having two guns brings the total weight high and the rate of fire slags along with performance. It also brings into the effect of the tank possibly flipping over when firing.

Some people here want a conventional gun while others want an ETC gun. I think we need a hybrid between the two. Bring the less weight of the conventional gun with the power of the ETC gun.

Credonia check your telegrams.
Well first off thanks for voicing your opinion, but we are using 1 105mm ETC (Diameter debatable, but only one), and if you can find/make a believable Hybrid gun the idea is welcome.

Alrighty Mac... about the engine. Heat shielding and sound deadening in the engine compartment can reduce engine noise and heat signatures.

Doesn't matter at all.

Heat Shielding: No. Whatever the horsepower in use at the time the engine is going to let rip and "heat shielding" which technically doesn't even exist - IR suppressants are used in jet turbojets, but putting that to suppress the heat on a tank is completely diffferent. Furthermore, it would do jack shit when its trying to supress the IR of a 2,100 hp engine, I'm sorry.

Sound Deadening: Negative. You're not going to muffle that much horsepower. No way.


Secondly, the horsepower I mentioned is peak horsepower, which is quite high, because the engine is relatively high in displacement, due to the fact that most tanks have spare space leftover in their designs, spare space that i'm using for the engine and the batteries.


Not tanks that have more embellishment than a palace. You're talking about modern, real tech tanks, who don't fill up their space with worthless detection devices and surface to air missile batteries, and with more armor than a battleship.


Normally however, the engine only uses 1/3rd its peak horsepower when it's moving at a constant velocity even while operating its main gun and all the electronic systems at the same time, only when the tank is accelerating is the peak horsepower utilized, and only briefly in order to accelerate the tank to a fast speed.


Again, no. In combat, and even during advance, a tank will not keep a constant speed. It willl decelerate and accelarate, and when your putting your foot on the pedal you're going to feel, and hear, all 2,100 horsepower of the engine.


And the engine can be made from new composites that decrease weight without sacrificing performance.


Once again, implausible. Any material that is meant to withstand very high heat temperatures, and isn't the material already is use, is just going to get heavier. They've already tried to make engines a lot less heavy in cars - and it's impossible...much less for a tank.

On the gun issue:

I suggest we imploy just 1 110mm ETC gun. That way the gun is powerful but not heavy as a 120 mm ETC or 2 105mm guns. Having two guns brings the total weight high and the rate of fire slags along with performance. It also brings into the effect of the tank possibly flipping over when firing.

Some people here want a conventional gun while others want an ETC gun. I think we need a hybrid between the two. Bring the less weight of the conventional gun with the power of the ETC gun.

Credonia check your telegrams.

1. I don't suggest you use two main guns - if one doesn't work, two doesn't mean it will... just a waste of space, and crew compartment.

2. The velocity difference on a 105mm and a 110mm ETC won't make a difference. Both will penetrate any armor on the field.

1. I don't suggest you use two main guns - if one doesn't work, two doesn't mean it will... just a waste of space, and crew compartment.

2. The velocity difference on a 105mm and a 110mm ETC won't make a difference. Both will penetrate any armor on the field.

Exactly what I was saying. But were basically going to stay with the 105mm? Okay then that will take off lots of weight from the tank. Also Macabee is right, we shouldn't outfit the tank with systems that won't help very much and just take up space. If we have one tank with all the nessessary systems and one tank with the nessassary systems and all sorts of non-nessassary systems and weapons, I will always put my money on the MBT with just the nessessary systems because it will be faster, lighter, cheaper, and overall have a more powerful performance because of the less compact the crew have to be.

Exactly what I was saying. But were basically going to stay with the 105mm? Okay then that will take off lots of weight from the tank. Also Macabee is right, we shouldn't outfit the tank with systems that won't help very much and just take up space. If we have one tank with all the nessessary systems and one tank with the nessassary systems and all sorts of non-nessassary systems and weapons, I will always put my money on the MBT with just the nessessary systems because it will be faster, lighter, cheaper, and overall have a more powerful performance because of the less compact the crew have to be.Yes, we are going to stay with a 105mm ETC gun with ETMAS (Also do we need an autoloader or not?), it shouldn't weight much more then a 120mm coventional, but will pack a lot more power. And yes we need to get rid of non-essential system (Laser Defence System stays, as well as all other weapons)

We need to decide which systems would be the best, and which would be just dead weight, I need you guys to post your electronic packages, and we'll decide which systems from each are the best and use those.

Yea, you're going definately need an autoloader. We all use depleted uranium SABOTs... as I said on MSN, those weigh more than Elvis Presly on drugs.... consequently, to have a manual loader would be unsound because the guy is going to get hell of tired, hell of fast :p ... you're going to need a hydraulics system.

Yea, you're going definately need an autoloader. We all use depleted uranium SABOTs... as I said on MSN, those weigh more than Elvis Presly on drugs.... consequently, to have a manual loader would be unsound because the guy is going to get hell of tired, hell of fast :p ... you're going to need a hydraulics system.
Yeah, I thought you guys metioned that, so Autoloader YES. So how many crew are we gonna have, 4 or 3 tankers? And another system?! Great :rolleyes: j/k

Hopefully Pushka will be able to include that into the recoil system.

As for crew I suggest commander/driver/fire and control. Make the two machine guns German style, with a little lever going into the tank - but that's just because I'm in love with how those work... you could make each MG have a field of fire of 180 degress...thus both of them together cover 360 degrees... one could be controlled by the commander and the other by the fire and control.

Or not.

*Bump* I'm revising the tank design a bit.

i thought that you wanted my assistance on specs. if you still do, feel free to let me know.

Hmm.... Juumanistra's rotary engine comes to mind right now. The Rotary engine has a much smaller displacement to power ratio than a normal diesel does. I think I can save enough weight and still make a large amount of horsepower. The problem will lie in the fuel consumption of the engine, which will be huge, maybe as much as an equivalent gas turbine, and potenially the expense, although since this is nationstates, finance is a moot point.

A potential solution to the fuel consumption will be to couple the rotary engine to a battery system similar to the Toyota Prius'. This way, fuel consumption will be minimized and performance actually improve performance (Hybrid Vehicles tend to outperform their gasoline counterparts)

I think we should get rid of the Anti-Air Missile Launcher. It just adds weight and MBTs aren't made to conduct anti-air capabilities. It will also bring the total weight up because of the launcher and then the entirely new system that will have to be put in the MBT for the launcher to work. Just keep the weapons minimal and nessessary.

I think we should get rid of the Anti-Air Missile Launcher. It just adds weight and MBTs aren't made to conduct anti-air capabilities. It will also bring the total weight up because of the launcher and then the entirely new system that will have to be put in the MBT for the launcher to work. Just keep the weapons minimal and nessessary.
i dissagree. a single flight of a-10's could take out a line of these tanks otherwise. what we should do is put an AA gun on top. with VLS missiles along the side. just my $0.02

i dissagree. a single flight of a-10's could take out a line of these tanks otherwise. what we should do is put an AA gun on top. with VLS missiles along the side. just my $0.02

No, the job of a tank is to destroy infantry and other tanks while taking control of the ground. Other vehicles have the job of shooting down A-10s and other anti-tank air vehciles (airplanes and helicopters). Most people use combined arms that make it much more flexible.

No, the job of a tank is to destroy infantry and other tanks while taking control of the ground. Other vehicles have the job of shooting down A-10s and other anti-tank air vehciles (airplanes and helicopters). Most people use combined arms that make it much more flexible.
true, however, in a amphibous landing, you will be greatly outnumbered. the ability of the tank to defend its self is paramount to weight. also, what do you think of the vls idea?

I think you're crazy if you want to land a tank like that amphibiously.

No, this definatly not gonna land amphibiously :p , that would be crazy

I'm revising the tank design, wait until I'm done and post, to post.

Alrighty.... the rotary can generate more torque and hp (torque esp.) if the combustion chamber is moved further out. Also, diesel would be a more effective engine sealant than gasoline (according to SB) and thus the rotary would consume much less fuel than a gasoline based rotary of the same quality.

Another advantage of a rotary over a gas turbine or diesel is that the rotary is much more responsive when accelerating than the turbine/diesel is. Thus, coupled with my transmission, suspension and drive system, I can achieve very strong acceleration, which I think is more necessary than a high top speed, as most tanks never hit top speed anyway.

The rotary will be coupled with an electric motor that provides extra horsepower and torque. This arrangement won't take up any more space than normal, because the rotary engine is smaller than a turbine in any case.
The coupling system will be worked in the same manner as my previous version of the engine, where the part of the rotary can shut off, or charge the batteries when the tank isn't using all its engine power and the electric motor can assist when the tank is accelerating.

The suspension and the track/wheel system will remain the same.

true, however, in a amphibous landing, you will be greatly outnumbered. the ability of the tank to defend its self is paramount to weight. also, what do you think of the vls idea?

That's why you always outfit armored divisions with brigades of surface to air missile batteries - combined arms, my friends - art of war.

Alrighty.... the rotary can generate more torque and hp (torque esp.) if the combustion chamber is moved further out. Also, diesel would be a more effective engine sealant than gasoline (according to SB) and thus the rotary would consume much less fuel than a gasoline based rotary of the same quality.


The U.S. Army wants to swap the Abrams engine to diesel because during Desert Storm some of the tanks ran out of fuel and it took about an hour to refuel them - allowing several Iraqi divisions to escape from the coalition's encirclement. It's a known fact that diesel is much more economical than gasoline - that's why I rather have a European diesel than an American gasoline engine for my car.

Ok, hopefully this is the last revision.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Freedom2.jpg

Notice the missiles are still there, but they are only optional, mounted on every 5th tank, they have been downsized to only 4 missiles each, and no extra ammo, and when not in use they are totally submerged into the turret, this allows the gunner go get a lock on targets with out raising the launchers until right before he fires (Launchers snap up to a 45 degree angle, launches missile, quickly snaps back down if no other targets are around/or they're already being engaged)

Also note the improved remote control coupla turret armed with:
1x 40mm Automatic Grenade launcher
2x 15.5mm MGs

And the rest of the armament:
15.5mm MG with a rapidly rotating 5 barreled bolt (single firing barrel)
105mm ETC with ETMAS

And here is Space Union Armor idea
Heres my idea about armor. It is an exotic approach that is being tested on a couple of of our Land X vehicles. So far results are promising:

Armor:

Made from a metal called Titanium-MM (classified) that is part of the family of metals called Memory Metals (MM). Its properties allow it to bend and then bend back to its originial form. It is tough and flexible giving it characteristics of Titanium. Hence the name Titanium-MM. It can be adapted as a 1st layer armor for a series of 3 layers. The properties allow the metal to be hit by a shell and then cause a dent. The dent would then return back to its normal stance unharmed. This would cut the destruction of armor by two times. That would result in a decrease in maintaince cost associated with the repairing of damaged armor. Underneath the Titanium-MM layer would be a layer of composite material, titanium, and chrome metals. There would be a 1 inch gap between it and the 1st layer allowing the dent to not affect the second layer. The last layer would be stainless steel-reinforced. It would be a safety procaution although it could be removed easily if nessassary to reduce weight when the life of the crew is not in severe danger.

Problems:

The dent takes 10 minutes to go back to its normal state. If the enemy tanks has an exceptionally good firing system, it would make it possible to hit the dent repeatedly causing damage to the 1st and 2nd layers of armor.

Possible Solution:

Scientist have found that heating up the dent causes much faster rate of recovery. If enough heat was given to the area, it might be possible to conduct recovery in a little over 1 minute. Heating could be done through contained plasma or through the use of liquid copper.
So what do you think about it?

I don't like the armor at all.

1. Titanium is hell of expensive, and doesn't bring the strength a composite built around a matrix would bring.

2. The problem isn't a shell denting the armor, it's the shell ripping the bonds. There's no flexibility property that will solve against that.

I think you ought to just go with a chobham/mexas/ERA layered armor - much like my own Pzkfmp. XI. Or drop the MEXAS since it doesn't really help in armor to armor warfare, and just have two layers - one of chobham or cermat as the bottom layer and ERA on the top layer - probably Kontackt-5 ERA if you want to keep this tank cost effecient and realistic.

I don't like the armor at all.

1. Titanium is hell of expensive, and doesn't bring the strength a composite built around a matrix would bring.

2. The problem isn't a shell denting the armor, it's the shell ripping the bonds. There's no flexibility property that will solve against that.

I think you ought to just go with a chobham/mexas/ERA layered armor - much like my own Pzkfmp. XI. Or drop the MEXAS since it doesn't really help in armor to armor warfare, and just have two layers - one of chobham or cermat as the bottom layer and ERA on the top layer - probably Kontackt-5 ERA if you want to keep this tank cost effecient and realistic.
Idea noted.

So does anyone else have any ideas? Feel free to post them! :)

Since we are diching my idea then why don't we try this:

We develop a 2 layer armor. The bottom layer would be composed of composite material. It would be maybe 2 inches. This way it won't make the tank weight to much. Then there will be a top-layer. It would be outfitted with 2x2ft Martensitic stainless steel plates that cover the top of the MBT. This way if any part of the armor is damaged only a couple of plates have to be taken off instead of entire sheet, potentially saving money and manpower on maintaince.


What do you guys think? I hear critizism from someone coming *cough*The Macabee*cough*. J/K (just kidding) :)

Hmmm, sounds good, I like both of your's ideas, we'll wait until others come online and post there I ideas before we decide on a armor scheme.

I like the Macabees option. I would hope that this tank would house more conventional system, as the new stuff tends to break down. The system the Macabees has listed should do well aganist kinetic penetrators and HEAT rounds, seems cost-effective, and is based on relible technology.

Although I am saddened to see a tank that can hold it's own in anti-aircraft warfare go, I suppose giving a few tank supplemental AA coverage would be more space efficent. The 15.5 mm machine guns worry me, however. Is it possible we could go with an MG that uses a more conventional round, like a 12.7 or 7.62mm (I know, underpowered, but it's good enough for it's Anti-Infantry role)?

Armor scheme:

Layer 1: Optional AMAP protection system. (AMAP=Advanced MEXAS)

http://www.defense-update.com/products/a/amap.htm

Layer 2: Single walled carbon nanotubes laced with double walled nanotubes that conduct electricity (so that the 2nd layer can double as the plate for the electric reactive armor against HEAT rounds).

Layer 3: Buckyball armor (buckyballs as a solid is kinda like silly putty, so it can absorb huge amounts of KE as long as nothing actually penetrates into it.)

Layer 4: Liquid reactive armor.

Layer 5: Anti-Spall Liner.

I like the Macabees option. I would hope that this tank would house more conventional system, as the new stuff tends to break down. The system the Macabees has listed should do well aganist kinetic penetrators and HEAT rounds, seems cost-effective, and is based on relible technology.

Although I am saddened to see a tank that can hold it's own in anti-aircraft warfare go, I suppose giving a few tank supplemental AA coverage would be more space efficent. The 15.5 mm machine guns worry me, however. Is it possible we could go with an MG that uses a more conventional round, like a 12.7 or 7.62mm (I know, underpowered, but it's good enough for it's Anti-Infantry role)?
Well if your talking about ETC guns, they've been around in NS for a while, so that nothing new, but yeah I tend to go with tried and proven technology, and MP just post his idea, and AA will take up a lot of space so that's why I'm decreasing the missile payloads and making them only optional, the 15.5mm MG was developed in 1983 but finacial problems in the company caused the project to go down the tube, it would have been more powerful then even the oviet KPV 14.7mm, here's the site http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg26-e.htm

And now most tanks in NS are armed with a MG that could rip most APCs to shreds, and most NS helicopters are built to take 12.7mm MG hits, I needed a MG that could pack a punch powerful enough to take down most 'copters.

EDIT: MP I like your idea, but I'll wait till tomorrow to make a decision if anyone else wants to post armor ideas.

*BUMP* I won't be home untill like 7:00PM GMT -5 because I have to go to the City Champions track meet, last meet of the season, wish me good luck, I have to do Triple Jump.

I'm going to add another layer to my armor. This makes it 3-Layers:

Layer 3: Covered by 3 inches of stainless steel alloy. Dotted with buckyballs in areas likely to be hit with shells.

Not covering the whole thing with buckyballs will bring the cost of the armor far lower than covering the entire MBT with buckyballs.

MassPwnage:

Could you explain your armor more? Sorry but I don't understand some of the stuff. I hope it isn't too big of a hassle.

The Silver Sky:

I also have a track meet today at 5:00 p.m. I'm running the 4x400 Relay, 100m, and 200m sprints. :)

I don't feel involved. Well i haven't slept in a while, need to clear my head, hopefully tommorrow i'll have actual ideas.

For now i would suggest have the space below the tracks covered with a V-shaped sheet of metal (with V-coming out), to help deflect anti-tank mines. Thats all i got now. I need to do my GAT-17U, then i'll have more.

Ok, Space Union your idea is noted, and Pushka your idea will be implemented into the design.

Guys, the problem with C60 Buckyballs is that they don't bond to shit, regardless of what you do to them. My superalloy idea for the Pzkmf. X was bullshit. Ask any proffessional chemist, and they will tell you buckyballs don't bond to anything.

Armor scheme:

Layer 1: Optional AMAP protection system. (AMAP=Advanced MEXAS)

http://www.defense-update.com/products/a/amap.htm

Layer 2: Single walled carbon nanotubes laced with double walled nanotubes that conduct electricity (so that the 2nd layer can double as the plate for the electric reactive armor against HEAT rounds).

Layer 3: Buckyball armor (buckyballs as a solid is kinda like silly putty, so it can absorb huge amounts of KE as long as nothing actually penetrates into it.)

Layer 4: Liquid reactive armor.

Layer 5: Anti-Spall Liner.

*slaps forehead*

MEXAS/AMAP is worthless on an MBT, sorry to say - I add it just to add armor value for sales - but regardless of the RHA readings any KE round will shred right through it, no matter how weak the gun or the shell is.

Nanotubes - no. You're talking about billion dollar armor that a DU SABOT will just tear through making the tanks not cost effective.

Buckyballs, I'm stressed the facts about buckyballs before. So no buckyballs or this tank is ignored by 100% of NS.

As for the other two layers, explain how they work because they sound like bullshit to me.

*Bump* Waiting for the others to comment

*Bump V2.0 fixes lots of problems, but will make more/or take a lot more bumps to fix them (Kinda like Internet Explorer and Windows)


PS: I use windows.

*bump*

Guys, the problem with C60 Buckyballs is that they don't bond to shit, regardless of what you do to them. My superalloy idea for the Pzkmf. X was bullshit. Ask any proffessional chemist, and they will tell you buckyballs don't bond to anything.

So I should get rid of the buckyballs in the third layer? Also how does the rest of my armor sound? I was being conventional with my design.

Mac, DU penetrators cannot cut through several thousand RHA of armor. Hell, a 120mm KE penetrator can't even slice through 3,500mm of RHA unless it's moving at some unholy velocity.

Not even the math supports it. A DU penetrator from the M829A3 round fired at point blank cannot cut through the frontal arc of the M1 Abrams.

Now the penetrator itself, weighs 10 kg:
http://www.defense-update.com/products/digits/120ke.htm (take a look)

Now the velocity of the Rheinmetall gun is around 1700 m/s (a bit high) or 1.7 kilometers per second.

The KE= 1/2mv^2 or 14.5 megajoules upon impact.

The 105mm KE in question, assuming that it's DU, will weigh around 7 kg, but will be shot at around 3,000 m/s.

KE=31.5 million joules, about a doubling in energy.

FYI of the Frontal Arc of the M1A2

Ke wpn-Turret: 880-900
Glacis:560-590
Lower front hull:580-650

Ce wpn-Turret: 1310-1620
Glacis:510-1050
front hull:800-970
From www.strategypage.com:

April 27, 2005: The U.S. Army’s next generation tank is very much a work in progress. In fact, the technologies needed to make it work haven’t been invented yet. The basic problem is one of physics. The 65 ton M-1 tank’s 120mm gun fires a shell that hits its target with megajoules of energy. That's about as much as you can get out of a tank gun these days. Using a depleted uranium penetrator, and that much impact energy, the M-1 can destroy any tank in the world (except an M-1, if you it in the front, where the composite armor is thickest.)...

Hence, assuming 900mm RHA from the Rheinmetall gun+KE penetrator, a DU round shot from a 105mm ETC should pierce about 2500mm RHA max, assuming no active or even passive reactive armor is used. If say... Kontakt-5 or Kaktus ERA, which can shatter a DU penetrator, then the penetration of the KE round will be much lower.

And if a DU Sabot cannot tear through properly made CHOBHAM, it certainly cannot tear through a thickly built single-walled carbon nanotube matrix. And I realize that a buckyball matrix doesn't bond to anything, but it doesn't have to, buckyballs arrange themselves into a solid similar to carbon fiber, so it's possible just to bolt on the armor. And no, they don't shatter like diamonds.

AMAP may be shredded by a DU penetrator, however, the inserts are to provide protection against dual and tri tandem (NS) HEAT warheads.

Anti-Spall Liner: Look it up yourself Mac.

Liquid reactive armor: This is a liquid that changes viscosity when exposed to electricity. It slows down projectiles that penetrate the other layers of armor, assuming the rest of the armor fails.

Woah, calm down guys, I'm liking MP's and SP's ideas but we need some more people to post there opinions.

*bump*

*PMUB* or *BUMP*

So what do we have right now already planned for the MBT?

Also heres the type of electronics that I was thinking about:

Electronic Defense Suit-Jams other vehicle electronics and protects from jamming by enemy forces
Onboard Computer System-The brain of the MBT.
Networking System (Allows communication between all MBTs on the ground)
Laser Defense System-Protects the MBT from laser-guided weapons, flares, and other smart weapons
NBC Protection System-Protects from Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Weapons
MASER Defense/Offense System-Can be used to either attack infantry without killing them or frying electronics of incoming missiles. Also features lasers to attack "dead" bombs that have had their circuitry fried.
Tracking System-Displays all vehicles in area and guides onboard missiles to target
Auto-Loading System-Loads the ammunition into the various guns and the ETC main gun.

These are the nessessary system classes. You may add but I recommend just keeping these classes to ensure less weight and flexibility problems.

We also should have a system that would link the tank to the HQs and to other tanks through the satelite, so everybody would know what is happening on the battelfield and then. HQs would be able to send maps and plans and so on, there is a lot of possibilities plus i am using a system like that on my NBM-1 IFV

We also should have a system that would link the tank to the HQs and to other tanks through the satelite, so everybody would know what is happening on the battelfield and then. HQs would be able to send maps and plans and so on, there is a lot of possibilities plus i am using a system like that on my NBM-1 IFV

I put that system as one of the nessessary systems because like you said it is important to have around the clock nessessary, new info about the battlefield.

Ok, I'll post the stuff we've done and need to do:

Weapons: 105mm ETC with ETMAS
1x 20mm Auto-cannon COAX
2x 15.5mm MGs with a 40mm auto-grenade launcher inbetween all mounted in remote operated coupla turret

Armor: Currently under debate

Electronics:
Also heres the type of electronics that I was thinking about:

Electronic Defense Suit-Jams other vehicle electronics and protects from jamming by enemy forces
Onboard Computer System-The brain of the MBT.
Networking System (Allows communication between all MBTs on the ground)
Laser Defense System-Protects the MBT from laser-guided weapons, flares, and other smart weapons
NBC Protection System-Protects from Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Weapons
MASER Defense/Offense System-Can be used to either attack infantry without killing them or frying electronics of incoming missiles. Also features lasers to attack "dead" bombs that have had their circuitry fried.
Tracking System-Displays all vehicles in area and guides onboard missiles to target
Auto-Loading System-Loads the ammunition into the various guns and the ETC main gun.

These are the nessessary system classes. You may add but I recommend just keeping these classes to ensure less weight and flexibility problems.

Engine/Transmission/suspension:
Alrighty.... the rotary can generate more torque and hp (torque esp.) if the combustion chamber is moved further out. Also, diesel would be a more effective engine sealant than gasoline (according to SB) and thus the rotary would consume much less fuel than a gasoline based rotary of the same quality.

Another advantage of a rotary over a gas turbine or diesel is that the rotary is much more responsive when accelerating than the turbine/diesel is. Thus, coupled with my transmission, suspension and drive system, I can achieve very strong acceleration, which I think is more necessary than a high top speed, as most tanks never hit top speed anyway.

The rotary will be coupled with an electric motor that provides extra horsepower and torque. This arrangement won't take up any more space than normal, because the rotary engine is smaller than a turbine in any case.
The coupling system will be worked in the same manner as my previous version of the engine, where the part of the rotary can shut off, or charge the batteries when the tank isn't using all its engine power and the electric motor can assist when the tank is accelerating.

The suspension and the track/wheel system will remain the same.

That's all i could think of, post anything i missed

*Bump*

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Freedom2.jpg

Um, headlamps? Hatches? Any form of external stowage?

As-is, the design looks extremely difficult to enter or leave; the coax seems too close to the main gun and the gun mantlet is too flimsy-looking. And wouldn't some smoke grenade launchers on the turret sides be a good idea?

It also seems to be lacking any kind of periscope or sensor set, and if it's rear-engined it could do with being longer.

Bump!

Ok, people, i'm taking all your ideas and implementing it into the design, i'll have a write up by friday.

I'm currently looking into buying a mass-production capability system that will allow me to create diamonds at a rate of 1 millimeter per hour! The method insures 10 Karrot diamonds that are actually stronger and tougher than other natural diamonds. Could these diamonds, if mass-produced (my intention), be used as a layer of armor?

Sounds feasible to me, but only if the diamonds are precut along the breaking edges(What are they really called?), what do you other guy's say?

Heres the link for the method:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/7908

It says 1 millimeter is possible so if we adapt NS tech we probably could get that much or more.

it would realy boost the price
they would crack, allow water to get in, freeze-thaw... it shaters. we loose our armour
its not perfect
the composite idea mentioned earlier has been tried and tested


I vote no.

Again, use carbon nanotubes and buckyballs. They're cheaper than synthetic diamonds and offer better performance to boot. Diamonds broken along their lines of cleveage are only useful for things like KE penetrators, as they aren't big enough to provide proper coverage and you'll have to use a a mosaic based NxRA matrix embedded with them to hold them in. It's hardly worth the cost and the weight to do that though.

Again, use carbon nanotubes and buckyballs. They're cheaper than synthetic diamonds and offer better performance to boot. Diamonds broken along their lines of cleveage are only useful for things like KE penetrators, as they aren't big enough to provide proper coverage and you'll have to use a a mosaic based NxRA matrix embedded with them to hold them in. It's hardly worth the cost and the weight to do that though.
i concur

*Bump* The write up should be up in a couple of hours.

Last chance to submit any useful information.

any ideas for a Point-Missile-Defence-System?

Yeah, I got a point-laser missile defence system, I'll post the final design of the tank in a bit, give me 30 mins, and DB I'd appreciate it if you could TG everyone telling them the design is gonna be up, it's gonna be a long post. :D

My final draft for the XM-125 Freedom MBT, I've compiled all of your ideas, and implement the best of them, including some designs I've gotten from some of your guy's tanks.

-------------------------------------

XM-125A1 Freedom MBT – The Silver Sky’s Next Generation MBT

Picture of the XM-125 Freedom MBT (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Freedom2.jpg)

Weapons:
Main Weapon:
105mm ETC cannon: The XM-125A1 Freedom uses 105mm ETC cannon with ETMAS(Electro-thermal magnetic assist)(Easily replaceable coils, and with dial-a-power setting, allowing extra power for those heavy tanks, or less power for those weak APCs). To make the turret turn quicker the turret and the chassis are divided in two by a central gyro circular sheet of composite metals, using McPhearson strut like bars, interwoven in springs (much like the shocks on your cars) and then smaller gyrating bars, to make the movement hydraulic, consequently, making it much faster. There are also small "R rings" inside the barrel which are springs measuring nanometers in size which reduce the kickback post-firing as well as muzzle flash. Includes an auto-loader with 10 rounds in a clip, another 10 round clip in the ready rack, and 3 more 10 round clips in a closed storage space connected to the main gun, the gun can shoot about 10 RPM burst fire, and a sustained rate of fire of 5-8RPM.

Secondary weapons:
1x 20mm Chain gun with 2 ammo drums totaling 1,000 rounds mounted co-axle with main gun and can fire up too 600 RPM.
1x 40mm auto-grenade launcher with 150 rounds of ammunition and can fire 30 RPM, mounted in the secondary turret.
2x 15.5 FN Heavy Machine Guns, they are fire-linked (one fires then the other to conserve ammo) with 2 ammo clips of 1,000 rounds each which turns out to 2,000 rounds per gun (plus 2,000 rounds in reserve for each gun) and can fire up to 750 RPM, mounted co-axle with Auto Grenade Launcher.
7x 7.62mm Mini-Phalanx Chaingun Systems mounted around the tank, each has 2,000 rounds drums, with another drum per gun; each gun has a fire rate of 2500rpm

Mounted on every 5th tank:
2x Quad Anti-air/Anti-Tank Missile Launchers, when not in use it is submerged totally into the main turret, has no extra ammo stored in the tank, can fire short range radar guided Surface to Air missiles (SAM), short range anti-missile missiles (SRAMM), and line of sight laser/RADAR/LIDAR guided anti-tank missiles.

Electronics:
Shortstop Electronic Protection System
AN/VLQ -9 or -10
Electronic Defense Suit – ECM, ECCM, and other systems
Onboard Computer System – Three small supercomputers, one for fire control, one for electronics, and one for communications.
Networking System - Allows communication between all MBTs on the ground
Laser Defense System-Protects the MBT from laser-guided weapons, flares, and other smart weapons
NBC Protection System-Protects from Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Weapons
MASER Defense/Offense System-Can be used to either attack infantry without killing them or frying electronics of incoming missiles. Also features lasers to attack "dead" bombs that have had their circuitry fried.
Tracking System-Displays all vehicles in area and guides onboard missiles to target

Armor:
Overriding armored layer - two layers of Kontackt-5 ERA bricks (RHA value of 600mms against HEAT and 200mm against KE)
Second layer - 20mm of AMAP (Advanced MEXAS) (1500mm of RHA armored value against HEAT and 200mm against KE)
Third Layer - Single walled carbon nanotubes laced with double walled nanotubes that conduct electricity (so that the 3rd layer can double as the plate for the electric reactive armor against HEAT rounds) over Chobham Composite armor (mixed layers/fibers of plastic, ceramics, titanium boride, depleted uranium, etc.) (700mm RHA against KE, and 1500mm against HEAT)
Forth Layer - (Can be removed to save weight and increase speed) - Ceramics and titanium boride (100mm RHA against KE, and 500mm against HEAT)
Last Layer- Anti-Spall Liner

Fire Control Systems:
Multi-Role Sensor Suite, Multi-Sensor Integration, Integrated Sensor/TA Suite, Virtual Immersive, Environment (AVTB)\, Neuroholographic ATD/R, Immersive Visualization. Moreover, the new system has both a low altitude RADAR and LIDAR system which has capabilities of tracking and giving firing solutions for up to twenty different targets at up to four thousand meters for the LIDAR and up to eleven thousand meters for the RADAR, The LIDAR uses a Gaussian transmitter, which is right now the most advanced LIDAR transmitter developed by the United States. Of course, this fire and control system also uses thermal imaging, and of course, infra-red imaging, includes an advance laser range finder that is almost immune to enemy laser counter-measures.

Engine:
1x Rotary Diesel engine
1x Electric motor that provides extra horsepower and torque. This arrangement won't take up any more space than normal, because the rotary engine is smaller than a turbine in any case.
Includes Heat shielding and sound deadening to make the tank harder to detect.

Transmission:
The transmission is an electrostatically based, computer controlled, fully continuously variable transmission. The transmission operates through control by small electric motors shifting positions in order to divert power output to the tires. The motors are cooled by a liquid coolant pumped around self sealing tubes around the transmission structure to prevent overheating. The computer control has various sensors located in or around the transmission linked to the main drive computer. Thus by analyzing loss behavior in the transmission, the computer can find a way to correct for any potential errors in operation, as well as attempt to find the optimal ratio for the combustion of fuel to transfer of power. This way, the tank can save fuel and get as much power onto the ground as possible.

Suspension:
The suspension is an imitation of the magnetically based Bose suspension. The suspension operates by using a linear electromagnetic motor instead of a spring or strut to create motion between the tank, tracks and ground. This suspension configuration allows for much greater track and wheel stability, as the suspension can respond much more quickly to irregularities in terrain than a mechanical suspension can, especially when aided by specially tuned computer sensors that feed back to the main computer. The suspension is controlled by various actuators and amplifiers that bring and return power to the suspension system, the suspension, by being able to reclaim lost power, uses only 1/3rd the power the air conditioning and sound system combined use.

Track/Wheels:
The new wheel and track system combines some old, proven technology with new and revolutionary technology. The tracks are double pinned, heavy duty, industrial sealant reinforced, landmine resistant, high traction pieces of equipment that are resistant to many of the dangers faced by tank tracks on previous generation tanks. The wheels are also reinforced, to prevent breakage.

The most important damage resistant feature of the tank is that the joints of the tracks are reinforced with high flexibility industrial sealant used to seal the joints in vats of molten metal. The sealant is highly resistant to concussion, heat and kinetic energy, and remains highly flexible through a huge range of temperatures. The sealant is also nearly impossible to stretch, or tear apart, only flexing very slightly as the tracks move around the tank’s wheels. The tracks are also double pinned, meaning that they are dual layered. The first layer is made up of metal, with a pin in the center. Attached to each of the pins is a panel of the 2nd layer of track, which is constituted out of a heat and concussion resistant, high impact, yet flexible high grip polymer similar to the industrial sealant used to join the tracks. The 2nd layer and the pins can easily be replaced if they are blown off in combat.

The wheels and roller components are hugely strengthened to prevent battle damage. The rollers and wheels are strengthened by high strength carbon fiber composites and tungsten carbide spokes running through them. They can resist fire from up to 30mm rounds and a several light anti-vehicle mines or one heavy anti-vehicle mine.

Speed: At least 55mph on-road, and 40mph off-road
Weight: At least 80 tons
Height: At least3.5 meters, 3.7meters if you count the antenna array
Width: At least 3.5meters
Length: At least 12.5 meters (probably more)
Max fording depth: 1 meter unprepared, 2 meters prepared.
Max Range: Internal Fuel: 375nm, with External fuel: 425nm (in 2 barrels mounted on the back of the tank.)

-----------------------------
Well what do you think about it, hopefully you guys like it, I hope I won't have to do anymore write ups. It took 6 hours - 2 hours for dinner and slacking off. :p

Credits for systems for the tank:

Armament: Me and almost everyone else
Electronics: Mostly ideas for the systems from SP but the first two are Mac's, with a small edit by me.
Armor: Mostly Mac's idea taken from his last tanks but with some of MP's ideas and edited by me.
Fire Control Systems: Again from Mac's newest tank, with small tweeks by me.
Engine/Transmission/Suspension/Track/Wheels: All of them are MP's ideas with a tiny edit by me.
Speed/Weight/Height/Width/Length/Max fording depth/Max Range: My guess and estimates.

Not to drive you crazy, but a small question. Does rail assited mean that it uses rails like a rail gun? [in reference to the main gun]

Not to drive you crazy, but a small question. Does rail assited mean that it uses rails like a rail gun? [in reference to the main gun]
Yeah, it's two small rails that when an electric current is sent through them and a shell is fire it helps to increase the velocity of the shell, and you can change to power of the current going through the rail, us it for more power veruses MBTs and you can disable it entirely to save power if you just want to shoot the poor clown walking down the street. :D

Specifically, there are two copper rails and a electron flow goes up one side and down the other powering a series of resistors and magnets. The magnets pull the projectile much like magnets and a rollercoaster. The force is specifically called the Lorentz Force.

The problem is, you can't fit a powersupply large enough to power it. So I would suggest eliminating that. The rest of the tank is great. Just that small problem.

Hmm, your right, I'll go with our original idea, using Magnetic coils to do that instead, way less power, same dial-a-velocity capability, but not able to shoot at as high velocities as rail assist.

*Post edited*

Costing what, ten to twenty times that of a tank built with sensible armament, systems and materials, with five times the logistical support requirements? If you're lucky?

Further, with all these extra useless computer systems, electromagnetic suspension, electrothermal gun, electric armour, secondary electric drive motor, electric transmission, laser defence system, MASERs and so on, one must ask the critical question:

How many minutes does the battery last?

Rail Assist is ok, the power system can reclaim the energy by using the recoil to power the generators.

Problems:

*Use Kaktus ERA, it's more advanced. ERA should also provide more protection against KE rounds, due to the fact that it blunts the nose of the KE penetrator, rendering it useless.

*Too many miniguns. Better to have 3-4 miniguns with 4000 rounds of ammo each.

*No compulsator to mainline power from the engine's coupling system to the tank's electronics.

*No recoil reclaimation system for the main gun.

*Again, no optics.

*No thermal sight.

*No modular build system for easy parts replacement.

*Snorkel System. Add one.

Looks good. But we need to decrease armenant. How about this:

1x 20mm Chain gun with 2 ammo drums totaling 1,000 rounds mounted co-axle with main gun and can fire up too 600 RPM.
1x 40mm auto-grenade launcher with 150 rounds of ammunition and can fire 30 RPM, mounted in the secondary turret.
1x 15.5 FN Heavy Machine Guns, they are fire-linked (one fires then the other to conserve ammo) with 2 ammo clips of 1,000 rounds each which turns out to 2,000 rounds per gun (plus 2,000 rounds in reserve for each gun) and can fire up to 750 RPM, mounted co-axle with Auto Grenade Launcher.
2x 7.62mm Mini-Phalanx Chaingun Systems mounted around the tank, each has 2,000 rounds drums, with another drum per gun; each gun has a fire rate of 2500rpm

I decreased the amount of 7.62mm machine guns and 15.5 machine gun because we don't really need so many of them. They just take up room and add to weight.

Hmm, looks good, I'll be offline for about 2-3 hours, I have a soccer game in a bit, wish me luck. :D

EDIT: Oh, GMC Military Arms you have a telegram.

[QUOTE=MassPwnage]Rail Assist is ok, the power system can reclaim the energy by using the recoil to power the generators.
[QUOTE]

Negative. It's been proven time and time again that rail assited guns on tanks is wayyyyy too future tech. There is no battery in the world that can sustain a rail assited tank gun - especially in sustained combat. Furthermore, rail assited tank guns also require better cooling and rail assited tank guns require a fuse that just doesn't exist.

So you didn't use Naupir-1, ha?

EDIT: Oh, GMC Military Arms you have a telegram.

I'll answer here, since I'm not sure about the telegram character limit.

While I won't go so far as to redesign your tank for you I will give you a few pointers.

[1] The key to designing a weapon for your country is to approach it from their point of view and avoid the 'PC syndrome' your tank has succumbed to at the moment; that is, you're building a tank like it was a PC. While in the case of a PC taking the most expensive component in each category will give you the best PC, in the case of the tank there are other problems to consider:

[a] You must balance the tank's technical complexity against the amount to training it will take for those who will service it;

[b] You must balance the tank's technical complexity against your ability to get expensive and delicate parts to depots and replace them [in particular, the sealant on the tracks would make it very difficult to replace individual links];

[c] You must balance the tank's technical complexity against your ability to build replacement tanks, because no matter how complex it is it is ridiculous to think you won't suffer any losses at all;

[d] You must balance the tank's technical complexity against your ability to mass-produce it quickly and efficiently in factories. At present, many of the parts would have to be built and in some cases even [i]installed by technicians working in cleanrooms with very expensive and precise equipment. This mean that tanks that do not have such limitations will be built much, much faster. More time on the factory floor means the tank is more expensive [wages, equipment use, electricity costs etc].

In addition, you have to consider that your military's experiences in the past and not your OOC ideas will determine how your country goes about building a tank; the Sherman was an awful tank, but it made sense given America's past military experience, which is why it was built. Same for the T-35, the Sheridan and suchlike.

[2] It's necessary to realise that more weapon systems alone don't make the tank more effective and can actually make it less effective: the chainguns, for example, mean you have to make a hole through the turret armour to allow them to pass through. This not only provides the enemy with something to aim for, the break in the armour becomes a point of failure for the entire turret, much like the tiny windows in the top of the hull of Comet airliners could cause the entire pressured cabin to split open if they failed.

Most of the additional weapons [missiles, the chainguns, the 40mm thingy] are rendered unnecessary by sensible combined-arms tactics; an infantry squad with the tank could just as easily carry eight missiles and be harder to take out than a single tank. The tank is then lighter, has no dip at the rear to act as a shelltrap and doesn't have explosives placed flush against it to help anti-tank rounds along.

And what does the 40mm grenade launcher do, that the coax [the 15.5 should really be coax'd to the main gun, mind] or the main gun couldn't handle? Wouldn't having more ammo for those two be better than a wasteful intermediate system?

[3] The fact that technology exists today doesn't mean said technology can be mass-produced tomorrow. All the post-cutting edge systems on this machine mean cost-effective mass-production would only become possible at a level of technology where it's opponents would be packing in magnetically accelerated main guns [rail / Gauss] into much smaller and more manoeuvrable units. In other words, this tank would either cost in the range of hundreds of millions of dollars per unit or be affordable but functionally obsolete.

The emphasis on complex systems instead of simple ones [electromagnetic suspension, computer-controlled drive, etc] would mean the crew would have to have a trained engineer among them, and that most damage or failure could not be fixed in the field and would require a trip back to the depot or even the factory. Since most tank designs emphasise ruggedness and ability to be repaired easily, this is a critical flaw that means this tank would place you at a serious disadvantage even against modern tanks like the Abrams. After all, a single breakdown would cost you the equivalent of ten or twenty of your opponent's tanks, and put your tank out of action for far longer.

Negative. It's been proven time and time again that rail assited guns on tanks is wayyyyy too future tech. There is no battery in the world that can sustain a rail assited tank gun - especially in sustained combat. Furthermore, rail assited tank guns also require better cooling and rail assited tank guns require a fuse that just doesn't exist.

The battery this tank would require anyway would be roughly the same, actually; if you took that battery and put it in a tank without the extra compy systems and electronics, you could easily run a railgun off it.

GMC, mind if I add this to my Complete Idiot's Guide to Creating a Military (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=419552) with full attribution to you?

GMC, mind if I add this to my Complete Idiot's Guide to Creating a Military (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=419552) with full attribution to you?

No problem here.

No problem here.Thanks, I appreciate it.

As I'm beginning to develop my army RPing skills, posts like that are very helpful to me. I'm sure that post will be very helpful to someone else down the line.

ooc: the suspension and engine coupling systems aren't overly complex, we're talking about toyota prius level technology here, which isn't really much. The suspension is in some ways more easily maintainable than a mechanical suspension because it doesn't have thin pieces of metal that break easily. The transmission is much less advanced than it could be (electrostatic vs. hydrodynamic), because hydrodynamic tranmissions tend to fail easily.

The electronics need some working, as some of the systems are rather superfluous while other some vital systems aren't there at all, like a recoil energy reclaimation system, or a fire supressant system.

ooc: the suspension and engine coupling systems aren't overly complex, we're talking about toyota prius level technology here, which isn't really much. The suspension is in some ways more easily maintainable than a mechanical suspension because it doesn't have thin pieces of metal that break easily. The transmission is much less advanced than it could be (electrostatic vs. hydrodynamic), because hydrodynamic tranmissions tend to fail easily.

Yes, but a damaged mechanical suspension system can still be partly functional, with this one the magnets either work or you have no suspension [further, a complex computer-controlled system with sensors breaks way easier than a solid piece of metal]. The transmission is needlessly complex; a tank doesn't need a transmission that finds the optimal combusion ratio of fuel, it's not a racing car. It needs a transmission that can take some serious abuse and still get you back home, and this one won't do that. [One should note the Toyota Prius was probably not designed to take a hit from a 40mm grenade and still function].

Good suggestion: read this (http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Myths/Myths_Tech_Examples.html).

Being positive, your DOGA model well avoided the 'generic DOGA tank' look with many MISSILE LAUNCHING COMPONENTS. A lot of DOGA made tanks look exactly the same, Ie like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/GenericDOGATank.jpg).

Sorry guys but im going to have to pull out of this. Despite school, which is ending on Friday for me (for good), I've started the process of enlisting in the Navy so im so not gonna have time for this RP. I've got my plate overstuffed so I hve no time to design anything, not even the things I wanted to design for my own storefront. Sorry for any inconviences this may have caused.

Yes, but a damaged mechanical suspension system can still be partly functional, with this one the magnets either work or you have no suspension [further, a complex computer-controlled system with sensors breaks way easier than a solid piece of metal]. The transmission is needlessly complex; a tank doesn't need a transmission that finds the optimal combusion ratio of fuel, it's not a racing car. It needs a transmission that can take some serious abuse and still get you back home, and this one won't do that. [One should note the Toyota Prius was probably not designed to take a hit from a 40mm grenade and still function].


Well, ideally you want to find both - a transmission that wont be overtaxed, and an engine that wont eat your gas. I think a standard diesel, perhaps around 1,600 to 1,800 horsepower, can do the trick, without all the special machinery put by MP. Hell, it seems to work on the Mervaka V, although this one is seriously over the weight of any modern tank.

Why don't we just keep a standard electric-diesal hybrid? Is that what MP is saying. Sorry, I'm not an engine and transmission expert like some people here.

Why don't we just keep a standard electric-diesal hybrid? Is that what MP is saying. Sorry, I'm not an engine and transmission expert like some people here.

I think that the best thing for this tank is to keep it simple. After all, in a melee these things, regardless of the engine of the tank, are going to get knocked out left and right -as well as your foe's tank. Meaning, when it comes down to victory, whoever's tank costs the lest and can be replaced the fastest wins.

Consequently, I think that the engine should just be made a 1,800 horsepower diesel. Very powerful, doesn't waste a ton of gas, and is relatively simple. You can change it out with different conducters, and such, but keep it on the diesel side.

To: All Nations Involved in the Development of the MBT-X125A1 Freedom
From: Kenix Kil, Secretary of State, The Democratic Republic of Halberdgardia
Re: Interest

The Democratic Republic of Halberdgardia heard news of your development of a powerful, advanced new battle tank, and found it highly interesting. We are most interested in the development process, and wish to inquire as to the current statistics of the tank, and the estimated price, as we find that had we had your tank in the previous war we fought, we would have prevailed much more quickly. We may have a few design ideas you can implement in the construction of the tank if we receive some rights to finished units or the like. We await further news on the development process with interest.

Respectfully,
Kenix Kil
Secretary of State
The Democratic Republic of Halberdgardia

I think that the best thing for this tank is to keep it simple. After all, in a melee these things, regardless of the engine of the tank, are going to get knocked out left and right -as well as your foe's tank. Meaning, when it comes down to victory, whoever's tank costs the lest and can be replaced the fastest wins.

Consequently, I think that the engine should just be made a 1,800 horsepower diesel. Very powerful, doesn't waste a ton of gas, and is relatively simple. You can change it out with different conducters, and such, but keep it on the diesel side.

what would the max speed be?

what would the max speed be?

In terms of armor, it wouldn't really matter. A tank can go theoritically faster than forty miles per hour, however, it's never going to happen. Most tanks cruise at around forty miles per hour, regardless of how powerful their engines are, and most of the time even slower than that. Actual combat velocities I doubt exceed twenty miles per hour, although I've never personally been in armored combat, and I hope I never will be - I much rather theorize sitting on my chair, than actually doing it. Regardless, this tank would be able to go fast enough to get the job done - I would slap on a good 50 miles per hour.

In terms of armor, it wouldn't really matter. A tank can go theoritically faster than forty miles per hour, however, it's never going to happen. Most tanks cruise at around forty miles per hour, regardless of how powerful their engines are, and most of the time even slower than that. Actual combat velocities I doubt exceed twenty miles per hour, although I've never personally been in armored combat, and I hope I never will be - I much rather theorize sitting on my chair, than actually doing it. Regardless, this tank would be able to go fast enough to get the job done - I would slap on a good 50 miles per hour.
ok, good, the reason i ask is because i worry about retreat. as you probably know, retreating tanks make excelent targets. not that i plan on retreating often...

*Bump* another revised version should be up this weekend.

XM-125A1 Freedom MBT – The Silver Sky’s Next Generation MBT

Front View (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one3.jpg)
Right Side View (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one1.jpg)
Rear View (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one4.jpg)
Left Side View (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one2.jpg)



Weapons:
Main Weapon:
The XM-125A1 Freedom uses 135mm ETC smoothbore cannon with ETMAS (easily replaceable, and with dial-a-power setting, allowing extra power for those heavy tanks, or less power for those weak APCs). To make the turret turn quicker the turret and the chassis are divided in two by a central gyro circular sheet of composite metals, using McPhearson strut like bars, interwoven in springs (much like the shocks on your cars) and then smaller gyrating bars, to make the movement hydraulic, consequently, making it much faster. There are also small "R rings" inside the barrel which are springs measuring nanometers in size which reduce the kickback post-firing as well as muzzle flash.
Auto-loader:
The auto-loading system is a fairly simple belt feed mechanism with a variable drive extractor arm that rams shells into the breech. It allows for a fire rate of around 12 rounds per minute, give or take allowing for how much charge is put into each individual shell fired. If the auto-loading mechanism fails, the gunner can manually load rounds into the gun’s breech. The auto-loader also includes a hydraulic and mechanical system that follows the gun up, down, and horizontally so the gun does not need to be completely horizontal to load a new round.
The Ammo: (Up to 40 rounds)
Kinetic Kill Sabot: Standard KE round
Sub-caliber Kinetic Kill Sabot: A 90mm round’s KE sabot with a 135mm ETC cannon’s propellant. Think of the insane speed this KE round is going at.
High Explosive: A high explosive shell for anti-building work and urban combat.
High Explosive Fragmentation: Useful against low flying aircraft and infantry.
High Explosive Cluster Incendiary: Many small pellets of phosphorous and thermite are packed tightly around an ONC explosive. When the explosive goes off, the phosphorous and thermite are heated up and then fly around all over the place setting things on fire.
High Explosive Anti-Tank: A high explosive anti-tank round utilizing a dual stage warhead to defeat reactive armor. The shaped charge can also be proxy detonated to kill buildings and low flying aircraft.

Secondary weapons:
1x 15.5mm FN Heavy Machine Gun with 2 ammo drums totaling 1,000 rounds mounted co-axle with main gun and can fire up to 750 RPM.
2x 15.5mm FN Heavy Machine Guns mounted in the remote controlled secondary turret, they are fire-linked (one fires then the other to conserve ammo) with 2 ammo clips of 1,000 rounds each which turns out to 2,000 rounds per gun and can fire up to 750 RPM
10x 40mm Grenade Launcher racks with 6 grenades each mounted around the tank (4 on each side with 2 in the back, 60 grenades total) (Can use HE, Smoke, and Thermite Grenades, it can also be used to fire off Chaff canisters and flares)


Electronics:
(Modular build systems for easy part replacement)
Shortstop Electronic Protection System: Can prematurely detonate incoming artillery rounds and missiles to help protect the tank and surrounding troops and vehicles.
Onboard Computer System: Consist of a small supercomputer and compiles all data in an easy to process form in order for the tank crew to react more intuitively
Networking System: Allows communication between all MBTs on the ground and headquarters.
Laser Rangefinder Scrambler: When the source of a hostile laser rangefinder is found, a counter laser is blasted into the source of the enemy’s rangefinder; the enemy computer reads this laser as a series of false returns, thus completely screwing up the enemy rangefinder.
Omni-Directional panoramic Tank Camera: 5 Omni-Directional panoramic Tank Cameras mounted around the tank (2 on each side and one in the back): The system uses a patent pending omni-directional optics which provides continuous coverage of a 360 degrees field of view without rotation mechanism, and provides the entire vehicle's crew with real-time awareness of the vehicle's surroundings and potential threats outside the vehicle. It is equipped with a video motion detector that can be programmed to selected areas of interest, providing real-time alerts. The system utilizes a high resolution digital camera mounted on masts placed on the upper turret. The system feeds the processed images to the computerized display which is installed in the tank. Also is equipped with a thermal/infa-red sight.
Search Radar: Search radar that does a 360 degree scan of the surrounding area every 1/3rd of a second. The search radar can find low profile or airborne targets as well as tanks. Max range 11km
Tracking Radar: A track radar tracks enemies in a 270 degree arc in front of and to the sides of the tank. Another device tracks enemies to the rear of the tank. Max range: 11km
Millimetric Wave Radar: High powered millimetric wave radar used as a radar rangefinder. Max range: 10km
Search and Tracking LIDAR: see Search and Tracking RADAR. Max range: 8km

Targeting and Input Systems:
(Again built in modules for easy replacement)
Target Control System: Can track up to 100 targets at once.
Fire Control System: The fire control system rapidly complies and computes wind, distance, weather, gravity, potential air resistance, MOA, shell ballistics and the nature/speed of the given target and makes final adjustments to the cannon before firing.
Digital target tracking/rotating periscope system: (DTTRPS, it is digital to prevent the tank commander from being blinded by lasers) The tank commander can use it to focus on a potential target, find the range with a built in advanced Laser/LIDAR range finder (A high powered LIDAR range finder with a high powered processing unit. 3 high powered beams are fired, thus making each measurement more accurate and making the beams more difficult to scramble), lock the periscope onto the target, hands over control to the gunner who then lines up the TTRPS range finder with the main gun’s range finder and fires.
Digital Imaging System: 5 digital cameras mounted in front of the driver’s position that work together to create a digital picture of the battlefield. It is useful because it allows the driver to drive without opening a big hole in the glacis for enemies to shoot into.


Armor:
The Armor is built in mass-produced modules, doing so makes for easier for maintenance crews to replace damaged tanks without having to send them back to the plants. A nation with a good logistics command should be able to replace a tank within 30-45 minutes; also since they are mass produced undamaged modules from a destroyed tank can be used to repair a damaged tank cutting down on maintenance time drastically.
Overriding armored layer: two layers of Kontackt-5 ERA bricks (RHA value of 800mm against HEAT and 400mm against KE)
2nd Layer: 15mm of AMAP (Advanced MEXAS) (1000mm of RHA armored value against HEAT and 100mm against KE)
3rd Layer: Chobham Composite armor (mixed layers/fibers of plastic, ceramics, titanium boride, depleted uranium, etc.) (600mm RHA against KE, and 1200mm against HEAT)
4th Layer: Ceramics and titanium boride (300mm RHA against KE, and 800mm against HEAT)
5th Layer: Mirrors 3rd Layer (but smaller) (RHA is 400mm vs. KE and 900mm vs. HEAT)
6th Layer: A titanium/tungsten honeycomb matrix to further absorb impact, and a thick sheet of boronated plasti-steel to absorb radiation. (RHA is 100mm vs. KE and 400mm vs. HEAT)
Final Layer: Anti-Spall Liner (thick spectra/fracture proof polymer resin sheeting on the inside to prevent internal armor from fracturing and flying around. Also, the polymer resin has the added bonus of absorbing many different kinds of radar.)


Engine:
(Easily replaceable because of modular build)
Diesel Electric Hybrid Rotary Engine: The engine is a diesel-electric hybrid rotary engine capable of making 2200hp (more like 2000hp in combat). The engine can be set to run in many different ways. The primary method of operation is that only part of the of diesel runs the tank, while another part charges the batteries. If the tank needs to get somewhere fast, both the batteries and the diesel are engaged at once. Also, only the batteries can be engaged. While battery only drive is engaged the tank is completely silent. Operation modes can be chosen by the driver automatically or manually. The entire engine system is cooled by several efficient heat sinks and a liquid cooled radiator with a self sealing tank (to prevent liquid spillage) and is cordoned off from the rest of the tank by armored bulkheads that prevent fuel/engine explosions from killing the crew. The engine also includes a powerful compulsator to get power to the batteries and the tanks electronics.

Masking Systems:
Infrared masking system: A series of high specific heat engine/gun liners, and excellent heat sinks reduce the infrared signature of the tank.
Radar masking system: The paint soaks up radar, as do many of the polymer resins used in the armor of the tank.
Electrical discharge masking system: A system that controls and minimizes excess electricity, while storing waste electricity and heat in extra batteries and the compulsator.

Transmission:
The transmission is a proven automatic hydraulic transmission (with a manual back-up), this allows for a very good easily replaceable transmission without the complexity of an electrostatic transmission.

Suspension:
The suspension is a tried and true Hydraulic suspension system, with a mechanical back-up; this keeps the cost of repair and manufacturing down to a minimum while still retaining a very good suspension system.

Track/Wheels:
(easily replaceable)
The new wheel and track system combines some old, proven technology with new and revolutionary technology. The tracks are double pinned, heavy duty, landmine resistant, high traction pieces of equipment that are resistant to many of the dangers faced by tank tracks on previous generation tanks. The wheels are also reinforced, to prevent breakage.

The first layer is made up of metal, with a pin in the center. Attached to each of the pins is a panel of the 2nd layer of track, which is constituted out of a heat and concussion resistant, high impact, yet flexible high grip polymer similar to the industrial sealant used to join the tracks. The 2nd layer and the pins can easily be replaced if they are blown off in combat.

The wheels and roller components are hugely strengthened to prevent battle damage. The rollers and wheels are strengthened by high strength carbon fiber composites and tungsten carbide spokes running through them. They can resist fire from up to 30mm rounds and a several light anti-vehicle mines or one heavy anti-vehicle mine.

Stats:
Max Range: Internal fuel: 400miles, W/external fuel: 475 miles
Speed: 52mph on-road, and 40mph off-road
Weight: 95 tons
Height: 3 meters, 3.5 meters if you count the antenna array
Width: 4.5meters
Length: 12.5 meters (probably more)
Crew: 3 (driver, gunner, commander)
Obstacle-transversal height: 1 meters
Max fording depth: 2 meters unprepared, 5.8 meters prepared (includes snorkel)

Other Notes:
The tank distributes its weight so evenly that specific ground pressure per square inch is less than that a human foot creates.

The tank has a energy reclamation system to reclaim power from the ETC and ETMAS when fired.

The tanks has has blast resistant doors and storage containers for the ammo to prevent HEAT rounds from detonating ammo and killing the crew.

The secondary turret is manufactured separately from the main turret and then attached to than main turret it’s powered via a electric motors, this makes it easier to replace damaged secondary turrets and keeps HEAT and KE hits on the secondary turret from harming the crew below as the blast is vented up and out.

EMP Hardening System: A protection system against EMPs that protects the engine, the core computer systems, and the drive controls against EMPs. Also, there is an emergency EMP shutoff system to prevent EMPs from destroying peripherals.

NBC Protection System: Protects from Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Weapons.

The armor on the back off the turret has been increased to counter-balance the weight of the main gun.

Well people what do you think? :D
And yes I decided to make the gun bigger, I moved the turret back a bit, increased the weight and lowered the speed to make-up for the gun weight difference.

If I can get an opinion from the designers, how does this tank stack up against the T-125 "Proletariat" MBT (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=411215&page=1&pp=15)? I recently purchased production rights to it, and am interested to see how this tank compares.

*Bump*

If I can get an opinion from the designers, how does this tank stack up against the T-125 "Proletariat" MBT (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=411215&page=1&pp=15)? I recently purchased production rights to it, and am interested to see how this tank compares.
Well my design is more conventional, easier to maintain, easier for the crew to control(more user friendly), is easier to produce, easier to repair, and has almost as good armor as well as a faster top speed. I'd say mine is better, but I need MP's opinion and a neutural third party's opinion to really see who's is better.

*MassBumpage*

*Bump of the night* *yawns*

well, somebody copied directly from my T-125 file....

That and i have easy to use controls built into my design file, as well as easy to replace parts (Modularity)

Also, the main gun of the T-125 is superior to the XM-125A1's main gun.

well, somebody copied directly from my T-125 file....

That and i have easy to use controls built into my design file, as well as easy to replace parts (Modularity)

Also, the main gun of the T-125 is superior to the XM-125A1's main gun.1: Yeah, but as you notice I edited out a lot of stuff and added my own.

2: Well no duh, it'd be stupid not too, but the ease of manufacturing is another thing.
3: Again yes.

Ah whoops, I forgot the credits:

Armor: The Macabees
Engine: MassPwnage(pretty much a down graded version of what's on his T-125, but who in hell need 4100hp?)
Weapons: Me, and input from others
Electonics: Mostly MP's stuff from his T-125, but I edited out a lot of the pretty much useless energy drains, and I added my own camera system from the tank.
Suspension: Me
Transmission: Me
Tracks: MP's original idea with a lot of stuff edited
Auto-loader: An edited MP auto-loader.

*Bump* come on where are you guys?

i like it, (even though my names not on the credit list... :( )

i like it, (even though my names not on the credit list... :( )
Well the credit list is for the people I got technical stuff from, you guys all gave me ideas.

Well the credit list is for the people I got technical stuff from, you guys all gave me ideas.
pffft

lol

We appreciate the input, and while we find your tank to be a venerable unit, we are afraid we will keep on producing our own M-175 Hellhounds (our designation for the T-125).

*Bump*

*bump*

*BUMP* Come on people comment.

*BUMP* Come on people comment.
can we just finnish this wih out them?

The new specs look good but its just a T-125 sooped up in some ways and downgraded in other ways. I suggest we compare them thoughrly. I'll do it in a while.

Ah, ok, nothing better then a unbiased opinion, tell me the results.

Its overall not a bad tank atleast from what i can see. Just another competitor for my upcoming GAT-18 "Chapaiev" to crush. UAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its overall not a bad tank atleast from what i can see. Just another competitor for my upcoming GAT-18 "Cossak" to crush. UAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, that's if they can even catch my tanks, or even see them, I like to use bombers to destroy tanks before I attack, so the chances of a 1v1 battle with just tanks is like 0%. if it's a big uber tank like the others I've seen it'll be scarp metal before it even gets running..

Yeah, that's if they can even catch my tanks, or even see them, I like to use bombers to destroy tanks before I attack, so the chances of a 1v1 battle with just tanks is like 0%. if it's a big uber tank like the others I've seen it'll be scarp metal before it even gets running..

Well i am not about to discuss what kind of stuff my tank is gonna be filled with cause i'd like to have an element of surprise on my side, but simply by reading your write up i can conclude that my tank will be superior. I don't like using tanks much either, i usually gain air superiority with my G-105 fighters, then just bomb and pound the the hell out of the enemy, surrounding him by dropping armored paratrooper units around the perimeter.

By crushing i meant design of course, last time i checked we were allies or atleast freindlies.

yup right we're allies, and I updated the pic, it now has more ERA blocks and slanted front turret armor.

yup right we're allies, and I updated the pic, it now has more ERA blocks and slanted front turret armor.
can you re-post the link

can you re-post the link
Sure:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one4.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one1.jpg

Sure:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one4.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/68157Silver/Hopefully_the_final_one1.jpg
hot stuff. i give it my stamp of approval. not that it matters.

i actually have 2 realy good ideas for weapon systems. a realy stealth sub,and a stealth aircraft carrier. i was wondering if i could employ your (all of you) help?

i actually have 2 realy good ideas for weapon systems. a realy stealth sub,and a stealth aircraft carrier. i was wondering if i could employ your (all of you) help?
I'm not really that great with ships, but I can offer suggestions. :)

i actually have 2 realy good ideas for weapon systems. a realy stealth sub,and a stealth aircraft carrier. i was wondering if i could employ your (all of you) help?

For the sub use caterpillar drive, if given enough power that thing can go up to a 100 knots and still be more invisible to sonar then any conventionally driven sub. The only problem is power, but that can be solved and i have a couple of ideas as to how.

For the sub use caterpillar drive, if given enough power that thing can go up to a 100 knots and still be more invisible to sonar then any conventionally driven sub. The only problem is power, but that can be solved and i have a couple of ideas as to how.

The problem with MHD propulsion is that it creates a 'black hole' effect to the rear of the submarine, which makes it pretty easy for other ships to find it - especially when all crews on NS are very well trained, apparently.

For the sub use caterpillar drive, if given enough power that thing can go up to a 100 knots and still be more invisible to sonar then any conventionally driven sub. The only problem is power, but that can be solved and i have a couple of ideas as to how.

You have a spare zero. Ten knots.

You have a spare zero. Ten knots.

Not really, theoretically a 100 knots is achievable. Yes, Japanese made Yamato was only in the 10s, i think it was like 15 knots, but still THEORETICALLY a hundred knots is a reality, its all about the amount of power used.

The problem with MHD propulsion is that it creates a 'black hole' effect to the rear of the submarine, which makes it pretty easy for other ships to find it - especially when all crews on NS are very well trained, apparently.

Blackhole effect? What is that? All MHD does is let the water in one end and pumps it out of the other, there did you get the idea about the "blackhole".

ok, do you agree that the tank is really good enough to sell? This is your last chance to submit any suggestions.

ok, do you agree that the tank is really good enough to sell? This is your last chance to submit any suggestions.
yes.

Also, so i can count on you guys for the sub and aircraft carrier design help?

Heres a basic comparison of the T-125 and MBT-X125:

Size: T-125
Speed: MBT-X125
Weight: T-125
Range: T-125
Obstacle-transvesal height: MBT-X125
Max Fordiing Depth: MBT-X125
Weapons: T-125
Armor: MBT-X125
Engine: T-125
Price: MBT-X125 (cheaper)
Maintaince: MBT-X125 (cheaper)

Overall I think we might have to rework the tank.

What do you suggest? (Send it through TG)

And Space Union, are you gonn be active on this site: http://modernwarstudies.net/worldatwar/index.php, you still control Great Britian remember.

What do you suggest? (Send it through TG)

And Space Union, are you gonn be active on this site: http://modernwarstudies.net/worldatwar/index.php, you still control Great Britian remember.

I'm going to try to be active but I have lots of homework. But in the summer I will.

I'm going to try to be active but I have lots of homework. But in the summer I will.
Ok, cool, but remember there's a huge war in Europe going on.

And don't forget to TG we on what you think should be changed.

Ok, cool, but remember there's a huge war in Europe going on.

And don't forget to TG we on what you think should be changed.

I won't. Also I TG you.

Ok, cool, you got a TG.

Ok, cool, you got a TG.

I sent you another one.

And the TG is off and speeding towards Space Union.

would you guys mind posting what ideas are being discussed.

It's not much, just setting some goals and we saw if we meet them, and we did, look for tanks to be up later tonight.

Not really, theoretically a 100 knots is achievable. Yes, Japanese made Yamato was only in the 10s, i think it was like 15 knots, but still THEORETICALLY a hundred knots is a reality, its all about the amount of power used.

No, it's all about the size of the catepillar tunnel, power is totally irrelevant after a point because there's a limit to how much water can enter the catepillar tunnel in a given time.

You're confusing catepillar drive and supercavitation.

I have a filling that i am really not.

www.physicsdaily.com/physics/Supercavitation

http://www.deepangel.com/html/deep_...d_supercav.html

www.npt.nuwc.navy.mil/contract/info/baa2004/

bump