NationStates Jolt Archive

I need help organizing my military. Currently, my Army is bloated with lots of stuff. Could people advice me on what to take out and what to leave? Currently I have a Navy, Air Force, Army, and Special Forces. I'm going to add Marines but don't know what equipment to give them. So can you people help me out? Thank You:

1 Army=3 Corps 1,206,000 $1 trillion/$1,666,666 per soldier
1 Corp=2 Divisions $1 trillion/$1,036,648 per tank personal
1 Division=
3,000 Professional Armored Men
800 T-125 Main Battle Tank
800 ST-29 Main Battle Tank
800 J-4 All-Purpose Fighting Platform
200 A-1 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicles
300 A-2 Pac-Mule Armored Personnel Carrier
200 SA-21 Mobile SAM Launcher
300 M-20 Gladiator Mobile AAA
200 HMMWV Avenger Anti-Aircraft Missle System
500 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
300 M-205 Artillery
200 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher
36 AH-220D Lion Helicopters
400 Supply Trucks
600 Carrier Trucks/Vans
50,000 Service People


Equipment:
Main Weapon: AR-22 Heavy Assault Rifle with M203X 40mm Belt-Fed Grenade Launcher Add-On (3,000 men in Division)
Secondary Weapon: M-12 MasterKey Double Barrled Shotgun (3,000 men)
Special Weapon 1 (for 1,000 men in the Division): M102 Street Cleaner Shotgun
Special Weapon 2 (for 800 men in the Division): MG-22 Squad Automatic Weapon/Light Machine-Gun
Special Weapon 3 (for 500 men in the Division): AT-5 Vazooka
Special weapon 4 (for 200 men in the Division): SR-23A1 Sniper Rifle
Special Weapon 5 (for 500 men in the Division): MG-15 15.5mm Heavy Machine Gun


Naval Armada=2 Groups
1 Group=
44,860 Service People
4 Norad Class Super Battleship 250 total
1 Ultra Class BattleCarrier (108 aircrafts+12 helicopters)
7 FFG-1 Monitor Class Semi-Submersible Frigate
5 Lancer Class Dreadnaught-Destroyer DD-120
14 CG-59 Volcano Class Arsenal Ship
5 SeaScorpion Class Missile Submarine
16 HSV-2 High-Speed Cargo Vessel
4 LHA-1 Hornet Class Amphibious Assault Carrier
2 FSF-1 Sea Fighter
Total: $3,667,100,000,000

Air Armada=10 Wings 280,000
1 Wing=10 Squadrons
Squadron=
18 F-27 Haste Stealth Fighters
40 F-31X Cyclone Interceptors
6 F/B-4 Phantom III Fighter Bombers
2 F/B-8 SpartaN Fighter Bombers
8 B-69 SkyMaster Bombers
4 F/A-117X NightHawks
20 A-4X Skyhawk IIs
8 A-17 Warhawk IIs
2 A-36B Mustangs
4 KC-15 Nova In-Flight Refuelers
4 KC-14 Jack Ass In-Flight Refuelers
2 E-3 Sentry (AWACS)
1 C-16 Pelican Cargo Lifters
238 Pilots
2,000 Service People

800 Men
2000 Service People

Special Force Contigements=2 Special Force Divisions
2 Special Force Divisions=2 Special Force Squardrons
Special Force Squadron=
1,000 Special Force Soldiers
100 J-4V1 "Juggernaught"
100 ST-29E
200 T-125
200 T-2 Savage Heavy Main Battle Tank
100 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicle
80 M-12 Firestorm Mobile Rocket Launcher
100 M-205 Artillary
20 AH-220D Lion Helicopters


Equipment:

Main Weapon: CAR-22 Combat Assault Rifle with M203 40mm grenade launcher
Secondary Weapon: AR-22A1Carbine
Special Weapon: AT-5 Vazooka
Shotgon: M102 Street Cleaner Shotgun
Marksment Gun: SR-23A1 Sniper Rifle

NOTE: I keep my army small so I can give them the best equipment and they can have the best training.

The only thing I can think of is to have more of a standardised Main Battle Tank. This would take a load off logistics, and make spare parts and ammunition for easier.

Other than that, I can't think of that much.

Perhaps, we could organise some cross training?

"wtf are your yabbering about?!" :confused:

The only thing I can think of is to have more of a standardised Main Battle Tank. This would take a load off logistics, and make spare parts and ammunition for easier.

Other than that, I can't think of that much.

Perhaps, we could organise some cross training?

The MBT problem also strikes me but I can't figure out which one suits me better. All them have their own advantages.

As for the cross-training, my nation would be honored to conduct military excercise with your army. Just post when you would like to hold them.

"wtf are your yabbering about?!" :confused:
What do you mean?

I suggest constructing your own MBT, as this is more cost effective, even more easy on logistics and means you have some creative freedom and get all the things you want. Limit yourself to two, if you can.

We got hold wargames openly on here, with your allies, or via telegram between the two of us. Which do you prefer?

I suggest building an army based on your nations conditions e.g. lots of islands = large navy

I suggest constructing your own MBT, as this is more cost effective, even more easy on logistics and means you have some creative freedom and get all the things you want. Limit yourself to two, if you can.

We got hold wargames openly on here, with your allies, or via telegram between the two of us. Which do you prefer?

I'm currently, constructed my own tank but that will take a while so I'll just retire most of them except two and then once I finish the tank I will use the new MBT.

I think we should open up a thread and have a wargame with a maximum of 2 allies on each side. How does that sound?

I suggest building an army based on your nations conditions e.g. lots of islands = large navy

I basically did that because I'm just one continent so I have a big army and air force with a smaller navy.

a continental force such as yours (that isn't aggressive) should focus on defence items e.g. patriots and long range missiles e.g. ICBM's

I could help with the MBT, if that wouldn't complicate things. I've made quite a few tanks in my time.

Sounds good, minus the fact I have no allies. how about I just have more troops, that would work. You wan't to start it, or will we wait a while? I don't mind, i'm fairly busy.

I could help with the MBT, if that wouldn't complicate things. I've made quite a few tanks in my time.

Sounds good, minus the fact I have no allies. how about I just have more troops, that would work. You wan't to start it, or will we wait a while? I don't mind, i'm fairly busy.

I would be honored to have you help with me on the tank. I'll TG you later with some info. You can then add and remove some of the suggestions you think aren't best for the MBT.

To make it fair, let it just be you and me. This way it will be fairer to your side.

a continental force such as yours (that isn't aggressive) should focus on defence items e.g. patriots and long range missiles e.g. ICBM's

Yeah I've been just loading up on defensive missiles on my coast.

Cool, I'm a nomad, I work that way. Start anytime, i've got to go for a while.

I'll start in a little while.

I need help organizing my military. Currently, my Army is bloated with lots of stuff. Could people advice me on what to take out and what to leave? Currently I have a Navy, Air Force, Army, and Special Forces. I'm going to add Marines but don't know what equipment to give them. So can you people help me out? Thank You:

1 Army=3 Corps 1,206,000 $1 trillion/$1,666,666 per soldier
1 Corp=2 Divisions $1 trillion/$1,036,648 per tank personal
1 Division=
3,000 Professional Armored Men
800 AX-1A1 Secondary Battle Tank
800 T-125 Main Battle Tank
800 ST-29 Main Battle Tank
800 J-4 All-Purpose Fighting Platform
800 T-1 Scorpion Main Battle Tanks
200 A-1 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicles
300 A-2 Pac-Mule Armored Personnel Carrier
200 SA-21 Mobile SAM Launcher
300 M-20 Gladiator Mobile AAA
200 HMMWV Avenger Anti-Aircraft Missle System
500 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
300 M-205 Artillery
200 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher
36 AH-220D Lion Helicopters
400 Supply Trucks
600 Carrier Trucks/Vans
50,000 Service People


Equipment:
Main Weapon: MG-22 Squad Automatic Weapon/Light Machine-Gun with M203X 40mm Belt-Fed Grenade Launcher Add-On (3,000 men in Division)
Secondary Weapon: M-12 MasterKey Double Barrled Shotgun (3,000 men)
Special Weapon 1 (for 1,000 men in the Division) M-103 LightWeight Self-Contained Flame Thrower
Special Weapon 2 (for 800 men in the Division): M-135 Minigun
Special Weapon 3 (for 500 men in the Division): AT-5 Vazooka
Special weapon 4 (for 200 men in the Division): SR-23A1 Sniper Rifle
Special Weapon 5 (for 500 men in the Division): MG-15 15.5mm Heavy Machine Gun


I'm just a little confused. 3000 men to crew 2400 MBTs and 3000+ assorted other fighting vehicles? If that isn't what you intended, you may want to clarify it.

Just to note: a "normal" tank division has in the neighborhood of 300 tanks and 10,000-20,000 personnel. Your divisional TOE is in the neighborhood of an army, re the number of tanks (among other items). The PLA, for example has roughly 7000 MBTs, total. (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pla-inventory.htm)
And the US has nearly 9000 MBTs. (http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm)

Your TOE suggests you have 14,400 MBTs per army, with 18,000 fighting personnel. Assuming several armies (as most militaries have), that gives you an excessive number of tanks, most of which are uncrewed.

You did say it was bloated. I agree. ;)
(How many armies do you have, BTW? )


Suggestions:
Decide on 1 MBT type, and bring down the numbers alot. I'd suggest 800 tanks per division, max. Provide enough crew. Don't forget your infantry. Operating tanks without infantry is suicide. Depending on your divisional structure (triad, square, pent), you should have 1-2 battalions of infantry per armored division. (And vice versa for infantry divisions.)

Hope that was helpful. If you have any questions, please post.
:)

I'm just a little confused. 3000 men to crew 2400 MBTs and 3000+ assorted other fighting vehicles? If that isn't what you intended, you may want to clarify it.

Just to note: a "normal" tank division has in the neighborhood of 300 tanks and 10,000-20,000 personnel. Your divisional TOE is in the neighborhood of an army, re the number of tanks (among other items). The PLA, for example has roughly 7000 MBTs, total. (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pla-inventory.htm)
And the US has nearly 9000 MBTs. (http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm)

Your TOE suggests you have 14,400 MBTs per army, with 18,000 fighting personnel. Assuming several armies (as most militaries have), that gives you an excessive number of tanks, most of which are uncrewed.

You did say it was bloated. I agree. ;)
(How many armies do you have, BTW? )


Suggestions:
Decide on 1 MBT type, and bring down the numbers alot. I'd suggest 800 tanks per division, max. Provide enough crew. Don't forget your infantry. Operating tanks without infantry is suicide. Depending on your divisional structure (triad, square, pent), you should have 1-2 battalions of infantry per armored division. (And vice versa for infantry divisions.)

Hope that was helpful. If you have any questions, please post.
:)

Actually my tank crews are included in the Service People figure. The 3,000 number are the number of infantry in my division. I'm also planning on getting rid of some of the MBTs and leaving 2 there. I also have 50 armies currently serving. How do you arrange your army?

I work in units of 6.


1 Regiment is 6 Platoons, 1 Brigade is 6 Regiments, 1 Battalion is 6 Brigades, 1 Division is 6 Battalions. This goes right down to squad leve, as each squad has six people!

This works really well, as each division is 32,400 Combat personnel.

I work in units of 6.


1 Regiment is 6 Platoons, 1 Brigade is 6 Regiments, 1 Battalion is 6 Brigades, 1 Division is 6 Battalions. This goes right down to squad leve, as each squad has six people!

This works really well, as each division is 32,400 Combat personnel.

So yours is like this:

6 Squad=1 Platoon
6 Platoon=1 Regiment
6 Regiment=1 Brigade
6 Brigade=1 Battalion
6 Battalion=1 Division
6 Division=1 Corp
6 Corps=1 Army

I'll then add Corp and Army. Army is the biggest. What level do you add Mechanized and Mortorized vehicles in?

Those are the personnel figures. Mechanized Armies will have all the vehicles the personnel can crew, same with tanks etc...

Basically, I have no hybrid forces. Thats what Corps are for, and they consist of:

2 Motorized Infantary Battallions (Standard)
1 Mechanized Infantary Battallion
3 Armored Battallions

Actually my tank crews are included in the Service People figure. The 3,000 number are the number of infantry in my division. I'm also planning on getting rid of some of the MBTs and leaving 2 there.

You should specify that. List the crews as fighting men. Listing them as support is misleading.

I also have 50 armies currently serving. How do you arrange your army?

50 armies? That gives 5.5% of your total population serving in your army alone. Combined with your other forces, your economy would be crippled. You should only ever have 5% in your military whole in times of all out war. (Seriously - sit down with a calculator and figure out how much of your productive population that works out to. You cannot believably have a peacetime army of 6%+ and a frightening economy. Far too many of your productive citizens are in the military.)

A standing peacetime army should be 1-2% max.

Here's an old rundown on my military: http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistallia/military/armedforces.html
(This was when I was around twice your population.)

The army was:
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistallia/military/army/order.html
Army Order of Battle
Total Army: 1,308,800

1st Army (311,450 men)

Army Headquarters (23,450 men)

1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)

1st Air Asault Corps (129,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (1800 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
1st Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)
2nd Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)
3rd Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)
4th Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)

2nd Air Asault Corps (129,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (1800 men)
2 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
5th Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)
6th Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)
7th Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)
8th Air Asault Infantry Division (24,300 men)

2nd Army (397,450 men)

Army Headquarters (23,450 men)

1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)

1st Heavy Corps (172,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (1200 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
1st Mechanized Infantry Division (35,800 men)
2nd Mechanized Infantry Division (35,800 men)
1st Armored Division (35,000 men)
2nd Armored Division (35,000 men)

2nd Heavy Corps (172,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (1200 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
3rd Mechanized Infantry Division (35,800 men)
4th Mechanized Infantry Divisions (35,800 men)
3rd Armored Divisions (35,000 men)
4th Armored Divisions (35,000 men)

3rd Army (263,450men)

Army Headquarters (23,450 men)

1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)

1st Light Corps (105,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (3000 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
1st Very Light Infantry Division (14,000 men)
2nd Very Light Infantry Division (14,000 men)
1st Light Infantry Division (22,000 men)
2nd Light Infantry Division (22,000 men)

2nd Light Corps (105,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (3000 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
3rd Very Light Infantry Division (14,000 men)
4th Very Light Infantry Division (14,000 men)
3rd Light Infantry Division (22,000 men)
4th Light Infantry Division (22,000 men)

4th Army (336,450 men)

Army Headquarters (23,450 men)

1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)

1st Coastal Corps (139,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (1400 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
1st Coastal Defence Division (26,900 men)
2nd Coastal Defence Division (26,900 men)
3rd Coastal Defence Division (26,900 men)
4th Coastal Defence Division (26,900 men)

1st Mountain Corps (153,000 men)
Corps Headquarters (1800 men)
1 Corps Support Group (30,000 men)
1st Mountain Division (30,300 men)
2nd Mountain Division (30,300 men)
3rd Mountain Division (30,300 men)
4th Mountain Division (30,300 men)

And my divisions were specifically designed heavy. They might rightfully have been designated reinforced divisions.

Those are the personnel figures. Mechanized Armies will have all the vehicles the personnel can crew, same with tanks etc...

Basically, I have no hybrid forces. Thats what Corps are for, and they consist of:

2 Motorized Infantary Battallions (Standard)
1 Mechanized Infantary Battallion
3 Armored Battallions

Could you show me what your military looks like so I can use it as a model? Thank you.

I work in units of 6.


1 Regiment is 6 Platoons, 1 Brigade is 6 Regiments, 1 Battalion is 6 Brigades, 1 Division is 6 Battalions. This goes right down to squad leve, as each squad has six people!

This works really well, as each division is 32,400 Combat personnel.

Not a standard TOE, but that's cool. The usual rule is that a commander can control 3-5 subunits, but if it's well organized and trained, 6 shouldn't be too much of a strain. You might rename your regiments companies just to prevent OOC confusion, but then again, calling your companies regiments may be a nice little local quirk. ;)

Daistallia 2104:

No actually I use less than 2% of my population for my entire armed forces. Here:

2% of Population: 21,760,000 men

Army Total (Includes soldiers and service people): 15,900,000

Navy Total (Includes Everyone in Navy): 897,200

Air Force Total (Includes Pilots, and service people and everyone else):4,476,000

All Armed Forces (Excluding Special Forces): 21,273,200

Note: With special forces, I don't think the armed forces will exceed 2% even then.

Here are some other places for ideas:
http://orbat.com/site/toe/
http://globalsecurity.org/military/intro/org.htm

Space Union Daistallia 2104:

No actually I use less than 2% of my population for my entire armed forces. Here:

2% of Population: 21,760,000 men

Army Total (Includes soldiers and service people): 15,900,000

Navy Total (Includes Everyone in Navy): 897,200

Air Force Total (Includes Pilots, and service people and everyone else):4,476,000

All Armed Forces (Excluding Special Forces): 21,273,200

Note: With special forces, I don't think the armed forces will exceed 2% even then.

:confused:

If 1 Army=3 Corps 1,206,000, and 50 armies, but 15,900,000 I am confused...

Here are some other places for ideas:
http://orbat.com/site/toe/
http://globalsecurity.org/military/intro/org.htm



:confused:

If 1 Army=3 Corps 1,206,000, and 50 armies, but 15,900,000 I am confused...

To make things easier: 1 Army has 318,000 men in it including service people.

To make things easier: 1 Army has 318,000 men in it including service people.

But your post says "1 Army=3 Corps 1,206,000". That neends to be clarified to prevent the exact confusion it caused me. ;)

50 Armies of 318k is ok. A bit unweildy, but ok. You might want to go up to army goups or fronts if you have that many. (I'm slowly updating mi military, and it will most likely include that level of organization.)

Here's a bit more help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit

But your post says "1 Army=3 Corps 1,206,000". That neends to be clarified to prevent the exact confusion it caused me. ;)

50 Armies of 318k is ok. A bit unweildy, but ok. You might want to go up to army goups or fronts if you have that many. (I'm slowly updating mi military, and it will most likely include that level of organization.)

Here's a bit more help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit

Sorry that number was from a while ago. Also thanks for the links. I guess I will have to add some bigger level.

Sorry that number was from a while ago. Also thanks for the links. I guess I will have to add some bigger level.

No worries.
Have fun. :)
I know I'm enjoying designing mine.

I finished the structure of my Army, here it is:

6 Squad=1 Platoon
6 Platoon=1 Regiment
6 Regiment=1 Brigade
6 Brigade=1 Battalion
6 Battalion=1 Division
6 Division=1 Corp
2 Corps=1 Army
2 Armies=1 Theater

Squad:6 People
Platoon:36 People
Regiment:216 People
Brigade:1,296
Battalion:7,776
Division:46,656
Corp:279,936
Army:559,872
Theater:1,119,744

Battalion Types:

Armored Battalion
Motorized Infantry Battalion
Mechanized Infantry Battalion

Divisions:

1 Division Headquarters (1,500 men)
3 Armored Battalion
2 Mechanized Infantry Battalion
1 Motorized Infantry Battalion

Armored Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
266 J-4 All-Purpose Fighting Platform
266 T-125
266 ST-29E1
133 T-03
66 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher
66 SA-22 Mobile Launcher with SA-102

Mechanized Infantry Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
100 A-1 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicles
150 A-2 Pac-Mule Armored Personal Carrier
150 M-205 Necromancer 200mm Artillery
150 M-20 Gladiator Mobile AAA
200 M-11A Recon Speeder

Motorized Infantry Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
200 SA-21 Mobile SAM Launcher
500 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
100 PHX/Chevy M-750 Technical
600 PHX/Chevy M-405 5 ½ Ton Truck
700 M-14 Hydra


How does that look? Comments and questions?

Now to my Navy:

How does it look right now?

bump

bump

I finished the structure of my Army, here it is:

6 Squad=1 Platoon
6 Platoon=1 Regiment
6 Regiment=1 Brigade
6 Brigade=1 Battalion
6 Battalion=1 Division
6 Division=1 Corp
2 Corps=1 Army
2 Armies=1 Theater

Squad:6 People
Platoon:36 People
Regiment:216 People
Brigade:1,296
Battalion:7,776
Division:46,656
Corp:279,936
Army:559,872
Theater:1,119,744

Battalion Types:

Armored Battalion
Motorized Infantry Battalion
Mechanized Infantry Battalion

Divisions:

3 Armored Battalion
2 Mechanized Infantry Battalion
1 Motorized Infantry Battalion

Armored Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
266 J-4 All-Purpose Fighting Platform
266 T-125
266 ST-29E1
133 T-03
66 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher
66 SA-22 Mobile Launcher with SA-102

Mechanized Infantry Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
100 A-1 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicles
150 A-2 Pac-Mule Armored Personal Carrier
150 M-205 Necromancer 200mm Artillery
150 M-20 Gladiator Mobile AAA
200 M-11A Recon Speeder

Motorized Infantry Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
200 SA-21 Mobile SAM Launcher
500 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
100 PHX/Chevy M-750 Technical
600 PHX/Chevy M-405 5 ½ Ton Truck
700 M-14 Hydra


How does that look? Comments and questions?

Now to my Navy:

How does it look right now?


Getting better. :)
Non-standard nomenclature, but that's no biggie.
The numbers are ok.
The one change I'd make is simply to specify the command units or otherwise clarify that 1 of of the 6 units at each level is a command element. Usually an ORBAT does that.
But, it's looking good. :)

Getting better. :)
Non-standard nomenclature, but that's no biggie.
The numbers are ok.
The one change I'd make is simply to specify the command units or otherwise clarify that 1 of of the 6 units at each level is a command element. Usually an ORBAT does that.
But, it's looking good. :)

Fixed it. What is an ORBAT?

Fixed it. What is an ORBAT?

Sorry, ORBAT=ORder of BATtle (AKA OOB), a listing of your national military units. Similar to a TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment). ORBATs are generally large scale and TOEs are smaller and more detailed.
An example of an ORBAT: http://orbat.com/site/oob/Austria.pdf
An example of a TOE: http://orbat.com/site/toe/toe/uk/uk_toe.pdf
(Both from orbat.com, I posted above)

Sorry, ORBAT=ORder of BATtle (AKA OOB), a listing of your national military units. Similar to a TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment). ORBATs are generally large scale and TOEs are smaller and more detailed.
An example of an ORBAT: http://orbat.com/site/oob/Austria.pdf
An example of a TOE: http://orbat.com/site/toe/toe/uk/uk_toe.pdf
(Both from orbat.com, I posted above)

Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for my navy?

bump

bump

Again, thanks for you help with my tank, and if it's as good as i know you all could make it, I might have the solution to your MBT problem

Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for my navy?

Naval forces I'm not so up on.

Have a look at this: http://globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/intro.htm

OOC: Fucking hell! Thats my unit structure!

It's cool, its cool! At least I know it's good, now. Glad your using it. Here, some more figures for you:

Squad:

Alpha Squad: 3 Team Members, including leader.

Bravo Squad: 2 Team Members, incuding support or demolitions expert.

Charlie Squad: 1 Team Member, usually a Sniper.

This derived from my days of playing Ghost Recon, where it worked quite nicely.

My Regiment Structure:

2 Platoons with Mortar and GPMG Fire Support
2 Platoons with AT and GPMG Fire Support
2 Platoons with AA and GPMG Fire Support
1 Leader, usually a Lieutenant

Also, to every Brigade (around 1300 men) I have one Artillery Platoon, of around 5 guns of various calibers (105mm-155mm).

I've got it all worked out in an excel document. If you wan't I could do a template of my armor force.

Daistallia 2104:

I'll check it.

Kazakhstania:

I'll implent that into my structure. Also do you keep mechanized and armor up at Battalion level or below.

For larger battles, I usually filter in Armor at Divisional level. For smaller units, I usually filter it in at Brigade level, at a 1:2 ratio of Armor to Infantary. If at divisional, it's 1:1.

It really depends what the unit needs to do, but aas a standard, its at divisional level.

Daistallia 2104:

I'll check it.

Kazakhstania:

I'll implent that into my structure. Also do you keep mechanized and armor up at Battalion level or below.

Where you put your armor should depend on how you see your military functioning - centralized command and control or decentralized. Integrating combined arms at a lower level gives local commanders more room to take the initiative.
Consider:
How much control do lower level command have? How much initiative do you expect them to take? The more they have, the more flexable they will be, but they can also screw up.
A good example of more centralized command is the Soviet army. The US is less centralized. Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

Where you put your armor should depend on how you see your military functioning - centralized command and control or decentralized. Integrating combined arms at a lower level gives local commanders more room to take the initiative.
Consider:
How much control do lower level command have? How much initiative do you expect them to take? The more they have, the more flexable they will be, but they can also screw up.
A good example of more centralized command is the Soviet army. The US is less centralized. Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

I'll use a more centeralized approach as that best favors me.

Squad:

Alpha Squad: 3 team members: 1 Corporal and 2 team members
Bravo Squad: 2 team members: 1 Engineer and 1 Medic
Charlie Squad: 1 Sniper

Platoon:

36 Soldiers:6 Squads

Artillary Platoon:

5 Artillary Pieces:
3 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
2 M-205 Artillery
1 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher

Regiment:

216 People: 5 Infantry Platoon and 1 Artillary Platoon

Brigade:

1,296 people: 6 Regiments

Motorized Brigade:
1,296 People
33 SA-21 Mobile SAM Launcher
166 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
16 PHX/Chevy M-750 Technical
100 PHX/Chevy M-405 5 ½ Ton Truck
116 M-14 Hydra

Mechanized Brigade:
1,296 People
16 A-1 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicles
25 A-2 Pac-Mule Armored Personal Carrier
25 M-205 Necromancer 200mm Artillery
25 M-20 Gladiator Mobile AAA
33 M-11A Recon Speeder

Armored Brigade:
1,296 People
44 J-4 All-Purpose Fighting Platform
44 T-125
44 ST-29E1
22 T-03
11 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher
11 SA-22 Mobile Launcher with SA-102


Battalion:

3 Armored Brigade
2 Mechanized Brigade
1 Motorized Brigade


Armored Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
266 J-4 All-Purpose Fighting Platform
266 T-125
266 ST-29E1
133 T-03
66 M-12 Firestorm MLRS Mobile Rocket Launcher
66 SA-22 Mobile Launcher with SA-102

Mechanized Infantry Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
100 A-1 Pac-Rat APC Fighting Vehicles
150 A-2 Pac-Mule Armored Personal Carrier
150 M-205 Necromancer 200mm Artillery
150 M-20 Gladiator Mobile AAA
200 M-11A Recon Speeder

Motorized Infantry Battalion:

4,665 Service People
3,111 Infantry Personal
200 SA-21 Mobile SAM Launcher
500 M-200 Self Propelled Howitzer
100 PHX/Chevy M-750 Technical
600 PHX/Chevy M-405 5 ½ Ton Truck
700 M-14 Hydra


Division:

46,656 men:

3 Armored Battalion
2 Mechanized Battalion
1 Motorized Battalion

Corp:

279,936 men: 6 Divisions

Army:

559,872 men: 6 Corp

Theater:

1,119,744: 6 Army


This is my entire Army layout. How does it look?

*clap* Looks good to me, I'm gonna use that once I get my army organized.

I Have a few questions about your infantry armament:
1) It looks like your standard infantry rifle (Army) Is a squad support weapon, if so then I have to ask why? Squad support weapons are usually issued at one or two per squad (hence the name 'Squad support' weapon)

2) you sem to be using a minigun on the infantry support level, these are primarily vehicle weapons, and are thus for a reason, unless you plan on using eight hundred soldiers to haul around ammo for it then you will not have much ammo, and using a mini cannon and an anti tank bazooka (or similiar weapon) is redundant anyway, in fact, A minigun is over kill for any infantry purpose, its a tank/apc/aircraft mounted weapon, not for infantry use.

3 ) You have a flame thrower anywhere near actual fighting troop, why? are you planning on killing of your own soldiers or have you been fighting many trench battles recently, The use of the flame thrower died witht the trench, in a modern combat operation it restricts mobility, is highly vulnerable and cause much colateral damage when destroyed, flamethrowers are logistics nightmares, spare parts fuel, nozzles, igniters. and all it takes is one not even very well placed bullet and it explodes, even just hard (read: Combat) use and it explodes, besides, using flamethrowers is more expensive than the 'fire' power it can be used for.

I Have a few questions about your infantry armament:
1) It looks like your standard infantry rifle (Army) Is a squad support weapon, if so then I have to ask why? Squad support weapons are usually issued at one or two per squad (hence the name 'Squad support' weapon)

2) you sem to be using a minigun on the infantry support level, these are primarily vehicle weapons, and are thus for a reason, unless you plan on using eight hundred soldiers to haul around ammo for it then you will not have much ammo, and using a mini cannon and an anti tank bazooka (or similiar weapon) is redundant anyway, in fact, A minigun is over kill for any infantry purpose, its a tank/apc/aircraft mounted weapon, not for infantry use.

3 ) You have a flame thrower anywhere near actual fighting troop, why? are you planning on killing of your own soldiers or have you been fighting many trench battles recently, The use of the flame thrower died witht the trench, in a modern combat operation it restricts mobility, is highly vulnerable and cause much colateral damage when destroyed, flamethrowers are logistics nightmares, spare parts fuel, nozzles, igniters. and all it takes is one not even very well placed bullet and it explodes, even just hard (read: Combat) use and it explodes, besides, using flamethrowers is more expensive than the 'fire' power it can be used for.

OOC: I'm not very good at guns so sorry if I'm an idiot

1)I'll replace it.
2)Is the AT-7 still fine for infantry purposes?
3)I'll get rid of it.

1) Don't get rid of it completely just issue it on a one or two per squad basis, that's its primary role anyway, and you should get a primary assault riffle for yor infantry to replace it, preferably using the same ammunition as the Squad Support gun to lower the logistic strain, You should also get an SMG or other PDW for vhicle crews to use incase their vehicle is damaged or destroyed adn they need something to fight with (Assault rifles are to big for the most part)

2) yes, the AT-7 is fine, its just that a mini gun is very ammo intensive (Filling a combat backpack full with ammo would be about one triggers pull worth) Thats why rocket launchers and recoiless rifles are usually used by infantry for anti tank/anti vehicle weapons.

3 ) Good, and you should shoot (Figurativley(sp)) who ever in your government decided that a flamethrower should be issue to infantry that would be fighting actual battles

1) Don't get rid of it completely just issue it on a one or two per squad basis, that's its primary role anyway, and you should get a primary assault riffle for yor infantry to replace it, You should also get an SMG or other PDW for vhicle crews to use incase their vehicle is damaged or destroyed adn they need something to fight with (Assault rifles are to big for the most part)

2) yes, the AT-7 is fine, its just that a mini gun is very ammo intensive (Filling a combat backpack full with ammo would be about one triggers pull worth) Thats why rocket launchers and recoiless rifles are usually used by infantry for anti tank/anti vehicle weapons.

3 ) Good, and you should shoot (Figgurativley) who ever in your government decided that a flamethrower should be issue to infantry that would be fighting actual battles

1) I replaced the gun with the AR-22 Heavy Assult Rifle. I added the MG-22 Squad Automatic Weapon/Light Machine-Gun under special guns (issued to 800 troops). Also crews will get a issue pistol that I haven't decided on yet. Also is Heavy Asssult Rife okay for infantry or should I just issue a regular Assult Rifle?

2) Replaced Mini-Gun with MG-22 Squad Automatic Weapon/Light Machine-Gun. How does that sound?

Also, the guy that issued it, met a mysterious death today :p

3)Replaced the flamethrower with the M102 Street Cleaner Shotgun. Is that fine?

Ok there Mr. Weapons dude... What can you give me that has some high and ighty fire power but easy to accesss and carry? Something high tech, but easy to use. And it should preferably be able to carry alot of ammo. If you can find some of these guns...whatever they maybe, i think we can make a buisness deal.

Ok there Mr. Weapons dude... What can you give me that has some high and ighty fire power but easy to accesss and carry? Something high tech, but easy to use. And it should preferably be able to carry alot of ammo. If you can find some of these guns...whatever they maybe, i think we can make a buisness deal.

Actually I'm not selling anything. I'm just requesting help. But if you want some great weapons go to Phoenix Dynamix. They have all your armies needs.

bump

My comments/suggestions/thoughts:

I don't think the 'hexagonal' approach is a very good one; it'll overwhelm your officers and you won't have enough support units. You can read about unit structures here (http://www.geocities.com/drakonok/Organising_Infantry.html) (infantry only), here (http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/title1.html), and here (http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/) (information from World War II for several nations). The second and third sites in particular have a lot of content, and I'm not going to reproduce it here.

You have too much heavy artillery with small units; you need more support weapons close to the infantry and to move that artillery higher up.

The brigades I can't comment on...I have to see how stuff is divided up between the units; I can't look at a big number and tell you if it's a good idea. I don't know anything about those vehicles, either, so I can't comment on them.

Infantry units usually go fire team -> squad -> platoon -> company -> battalion -> regiment (optional) -> brigade -> division.

The flamethrower and shotgun are specialist weapons; keep both, but don't give them to random soldiers on the front lines.

The Nighthawks and Skyhawks are rather old for use in NS (Then again, I've produced and sold a fighter with cheapness a primary design issue.)...I again don't know about the other stuff and the organization makes it difficult to comment on, although you shouldn't have everything bundled together like that.

Where are your helicopters?

"Super battleships" in the NS sense are worse than useless. Semi-submersible ships would be very inefficient with space...Consider getting rid of both. I can't comment on the other ships as I don't know about them.

Consider putting your ships into carrier groups...Perhaps one carrier, two attack subs, two cruisers, two destroyers, two frigates, and a supply ship.

This (http://www.geocities.com/dominantlogistics/) site has some ideas for organizing the air force, navy, and army, plus what should be in them.

The AT-7 is weak for use against modern MBTs. Something more recent would be good.


I hope that was helpful. :)

My comments/suggestions/thoughts:

I don't think the 'hexagonal' approach is a very good one; it'll overwhelm your officers and you won't have enough support units. You can read about unit structures here (http://www.geocities.com/drakonok/Organising_Infantry.html) (infantry only), here (http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/title1.html), and here (http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/) (information from World War II for several nations). The second and third sites in particular have a lot of content, and I'm not going to reproduce it here.

[QUOTE]You have too much heavy artillery with small units; you need more support weapons close to the infantry and to move that artillery higher up.

I'll move artillary up to brigade.


Infantry units usually go fire team -> squad -> platoon -> company -> battalion -> regiment (optional) -> brigade -> division.

I just put it that way. I can rename it later on.

The flamethrower and shotgun are specialist weapons; keep both, but don't give them to random soldiers on the front lines.

I got rid of the flamethrower and put another different shotgun in.

The Nighthawks and Skyhawks are rather old for use in NS (Then again, I've produced and sold a fighter with cheapness a primary design issue.)...I again don't know about the other stuff and the organization makes it difficult to comment on, although you shouldn't have everything bundled together like that.

There not the same as RL ones. They both have X behind them and have been modified extensivly enough that they are some of the best in their class. But I may retire them if needed.

Where are your helicopters?

Oops, forget to put them up.

"Super battleships" in the NS sense are worse than useless. Semi-submersible ships would be very inefficient with space...Consider getting rid of both. I can't comment on the other ships as I don't know about them.

The battleship are really flag ship.

Consider putting your ships into carrier groups...Perhaps one carrier, two attack subs, two cruisers, two destroyers, two frigates, and a supply ship.

I'm currently organizing them and will have them ready by tomorrow.

This (http://www.geocities.com/dominantlogistics/) site has some ideas for organizing the air force, navy, and army, plus what should be in them.

Thanks :)

The AT-7 is weak for use against modern MBTs. Something more recent would be good.

Sorry I mean't AT-5 not AT-7. AT-5 is very effective against MBTs.

Also if you want to check the stats for the my military, I bought all them at the Phoenix Dynamix storefront.

Just a quick comment on the flamethrower issue, you could go with a modern alternative which is a route the Russians have chosen, they created a thermobaric RPG warhead. So you'll have destructive firepower, flames and better range than an actual flamethrower. You could fit a flamethrower type mixture inside a warhead and use that in a rocket, flamethrowers using lots of fuel before they even hit their target but if its all in a warhead you solve that problem.

I'd also issue something more than a pistol for vehicle crews, that's what a Personal Defence Weapon (PDW) is intended for, weapons like the P90 and MP7 fit that role but no doubt there are NS creations. Keep in mind they're meant to pierce armour on the battlefield but aren't meant for front-line issue as they lack the range, it's just something to stop your crews getting smacked about too easily.

Just a quick comment on the flamethrower issue, you could go with a modern alternative which is a route the Russians have chosen, they created a thermobaric RPG warhead. So you'll have destructive firepower, flames and better range than an actual flamethrower. You could fit a flamethrower type mixture inside a warhead and use that in a rocket, flamethrowers using lots of fuel before they even hit their target but if its all in a warhead you solve that problem.

I'd also issue something more than a pistol for vehicle crews, that's what a Personal Defence Weapon (PDW) is intended for, weapons like the P90 and MP7 fit that role but no doubt there are NS creations. Keep in mind they're meant to pierce armour on the battlefield but aren't meant for front-line issue as they lack the range, it's just something to stop your crews getting smacked about too easily.

Thanks for the advice but I'm not putting any flamethrowers into the equation. Also the I'll look into the P90 and MP7 guns.

bump

I'm finished with my Army but I now need to figure out the ranks and Order of Battle for the Navy. What's the hiearchy? Could someone tell me, please.

Thank You

Ok there Mr. Weapons dude... What can you give me that has some high and ighty fire power but easy to accesss and carry? Something high tech, but easy to use. And it should preferably be able to carry alot of ammo. If you can find some of these guns...whatever they maybe, i think we can make a buisness deal.

If You're looking for the power of an assault rifle in an easy to use package then look no farther: the G-11AR is sold at your local The Nine Military storefront for only 800 USD!! (Bulk discouts available) This bull pup assault rifle uses a unique action to negate problems normally asosciated witht he bull pup configuration. this rifle fires the light weight but powerful 4.7 mm caseless round from a magazine with capacity of 50 rounds, or with conversion kit (Also Available at TNMS) it can fire the more powerful 6mm caseless round with a magazine capacity of 40 rounds. This rifles roller casing design delays and reduces recoil, firing in three round burst the recoil is not felt until after thethird round has left the barrel. because of the rifles unique configuartion and feeding system, in thre round burst it fires witht he incredible rate of fire of 2000 round per minute, which means that for a three round burst, the third round is fired before the first round has even left the barrel !!!! coupled with the MG-11 squad support weapon, the PG-11 PDW and the SG-12 DMR, TNMS offers an unmatched suite of infantry weapons

(Sorry for the Plug, sales have been going a little slow)

Hey again Space Union. That's damn good, but can I ask two things:

A) This might be a touch selfish, but can you at least give me a bit of credit for the structure? It took me quite a while on an Excel Document to come up with that one. As for Silver Sky, sure, just give me a bit of thanks too!

B) The Heavy Artillery should be filtered in at a higher level. At the lower level, keep it to Mortars and the like. At the level of abour Battallion, that's where I ad 155mm guns and so on.

As for the issue of "Centralized and Uncentralized Control", my units are uncentralized up to Batallion level, giving the smaller sub-units a bit of freedom. Beyond that, the comand is centralized, which adds command units and detracts combat units from each division/corps/army.

As for the "too much work for the Officers", it gives them a bit more creative freedom and maneuverability in attacking and defending, and due to a high training rate in Kazahstania and I am sure in Space Union, the officers can cope. Unless you have noticed, it goes 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 and so on. It works, trust me.

Two more suggestions:
Don't use the P90 or MP7; they're good for penetrating armor, but have very bad 'stopping power'.
Don't use weapons with bores any smaller than 6.35mm if you'll be operating near water, or draining barrels will be a problem.
B) The Heavy Artillery should be filtered in at a higher level. At the lower level, keep it to Mortars and the like. At the level of abour Battallion, that's where I ad 155mm guns and so on.If the convention is any good, guns other than 'infantry guns' belong above the battalion.
As for the "too much work for the Officers", it gives them a bit more creative freedom and maneuverability in attacking and defending, and due to a high training rate in Kazahstania and I am sure in Space Union, the officers can cope. Unless you have noticed, it goes 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 and so on. It works, trust me.
Regardless of the technical ability to communicate with every formation or unit within a span of command, studies have shown that a ratio of more than four or five subordinate points of command to one headquarters is the maximum that a commander can manage effectively. Further, the more varied the points of command are, the less that can be handled simultaneously. Experience indicates that the commander risks becoming overloaded, with a debilitating effect on decision-making, if more than three are active at any one time.
(Emphasis mine)

<SNIP> A) This might be a touch selfish, but can you at least give me a bit of credit for the structure? It took me quite a while on an Excel Document to come up with that one. As for Silver Sky, sure, just give me a bit of thanks too! <SNIP>
lol, but I said I might, probably won't but might.