NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to add some commentary that would be beneficial to everybody here regarding the whole Call to Power VS Feline Catfish and Call to Power VS AMF situation. In addition, I am addressing possible reasons why CTP is RP'ing the way he is. Please note, this is all OOC opinion, not IC.



I think the problem with CTP is that he doesn't fully understand NS. He is used to playing computer games, like Civilization and such, where he fights the A.I. He also might have had some experience with multi-player LAN gaming, so he is not used to RP'ing here at NS in text based roleplay with rules very different from computer video games.


He thought he was doing the right thing, by preventing nuclear war by taking out FC's nuclear weapons. Then FC ignored CTP's attack, thereby nullifying the whole CTP vs FC situation. There were no aggression aganist FC from CTP IC'ly *after* FC ignored his attacks, which means there would be no reason for AMF to demand that CTP become a province / vassal (As the CTP aggression aganist FC has been "erased" by the IGNORE).

CTP only fired on AMF after AMF demanded CTP become an AMF province / vassal. CTP wants to keep his independence, not become someone's slave or vassal, so soon after his nation was created.



What's more, CTP's token military is no big threat to AMF, yet I see the exact same band-wagon jumping here aganist CTP, just like what has been done aganist FC.

Big 1+ billion nations like Hataria, Greater Sixth Reich, Risban, Teh Ninjas, etc. are beginning to dogpile aganist CTP and other March / April / May nations that are trying to come to his aid. The small newcomer nations actually have more balls, guts, and courage than the "big, old, wise" nations. The small nations band together to help and protect each other, while the "big, old, wise" nations feel the need to group up to take out nations 1 / 50 of a single "big, old, wise" nation's size.

That says quite something about the "big, old, wise" nations need for ego satisification, "Oh, I beat up a small guy! Now I feel great!!!!" and "Oh, I don't wanna fight someone my own size. Its so much easier to destroy someone much smaller than me!!!!"

This is turning into another FC. There really is no need for huge nations (1+ or 2+ or 3+ billion each) to all band together to take down 1, 2, or 3 small nations that barely make 100 - 200 million combined.



In my honest opinion, this behavior digusts me. I thought people actually learned from the FC thing, and learned to not gang-rape or dogpile small newcomer nations. This is extremely poor RP etiquette.

Even if he god-modded in the first place aganist FC, he DESERVES a chance to improve his RP. He should be given a chance to learn not to god-mod, and learn how to RP well. I can't blame CTP if he is going to god-mod the defense of his nation aganist this growing dogpile aganist him.

You guys are slamming CTP, not giving him a chance to improve his RP, and not letting him learn from his mistakes. Invading, annexing, or glassing over his nation is the wrong way to help him learn. In all seriousness, if he has no land or nation left to RP with, then he has no incentive to improve his RP'ing.


In my honest opinion, I strongly suggest that CTP fully IGNORE this dogpile invasion of his nation, and try to practice RP'ing with other nations. CTP needs to forget all about FC, and act if FC never existed. Then CTP can RP with me or some other open-minded nations to improve his RP.


I stronly felt that these things *HAD* to be said, given the circumstances, hypocriscy, and my growing frustration at the people of I.I. gang-raping CTP after most of them tried to solve this issue with FC. This cycle of huge nations dogpiling bullshit aganist 1, 2, or 3 month old nations HAS GOT TO STOP!

If this keeps up, I am seriously thinking about coming to CTP's aid to help him aganist this ridiclious dogpile. I don't care if I'm blurring OOC and IC by coming to CTP's aid for OOC reasons because this dogpile situation warrants this.

Good day.

OOC: Heartily agree. *Clinks your glass*

Look at me! I'm going to invade Greater Valia, an August 2003 nation.

The main problem, and the cause of the entire "Feline Catfish Situation" is that everyone in II is bored. Quite frankly, nothing happens anymore. Everyone is afraid of everyone else and everyone has so many allies that the world is in a constant state of Cold War. There may be border skirmishes in foreign lands or tense situations where war draws near, but basically nothing happens.

Now, when someone like CTP comes along and starts making outrageous demands, everyone jumps on him because they're bored, he cant fight back and its an excuse. Now, this can go one of three ways in my opinion:

1) IGNORE. Everyone goes back to being bored, Call To Power is IGNROED by 70% of II and there isnt much point in his nation being around anyway.

2) Rubbish RP. CTP is dogpiled by a bazillion nations and he just gives up and leaves. Another alternative is AMF doing a "salt the earth" thing and just destroying CTP completely. Again, expect to see CTP quit NS.

3) Good RP. Cut down on the dogpiling, only AMF needs to invade, as well as me, Dumpsterdam and Mcleod who, in all honesty, got there first and have been planning to attack for a day or two. CTP is not completely destroyed, but partially colonised and given a government in a smaller nation which is being inspected for arms developments. This can carry on from there, and be an interested and ongoing RP as CTP attempts to get his nation back by various means.

I would stop pushing for the first option, try to persuade people against the second and aim for the third.

ooc:- Hmm I cruise into the boards for the first time in ages & what I see? The same old thing as before where a newbie enters the game & screws up, then the older nations erasing that nation instead of teaching them how to play it right.

By the way in regards to the "Cold war" comment, thats a GOOD thing, not a bad thing in my opinion. Cause it means people should be focusing on small scale clashes, spy storys, diplomacy etc instead of the over the top & out of scale war thing.


Oh and watch your stuff; Winged Gremlins are exploring again :)

Good points, Praetonia.

I can see three ways to fix this problem.

1. Do some kind of "Mega-alliance" disbanding.

NATO, RWC, NWO, IADF, etc. should disband, and I.I. reverts back to small alliances. What I mean by that is a nation having a few allies, but they are *not* obligated to support the nation in question.

There are too many alliances of 15+ nations with the following philosophy "An attack upon 1 member means an attack aganist all 15 members of the alliance".

Then uber-dogpile results, ruining RP's beyond repair.

2. Limit numbers of nations playing in RP. Meaning only a set number of players allowed per side.

3 allies for Nation A.
3 allies for Nation B.

4th ally and onwards will be IGNORED.

The numbers can be adjusted accordingly, to 2 allies, 4 allies, or whatever, depending on the RP and the player's preferences.


3. Let CTP have several allies help defend him, in a war aganist AMF, Praetonia, Dumpsterdam, and MacLeod.

No 10+ nations attacking CTP. Keep it to 4 attackers, and maybe 3 - 5 defenders (depends on defender's relative size to attackers). Then it would be a much more interesting fight and a chance for a possible 50% - 50% win or loss scenario, instead of 0.000001% win or loss scenario.

The Real-Life NATO philosophy of "An attack upon 1 member means an attack aganist all 15 members of the alliance" should only apply if it is necessary for the defence of that nation or if all his allies are going to pitch in, each ally should only deploy enough elements to form a coalition army to defend. As well, no one is obligated to jump to war, every ally does not need to send their forces if they are not needed.

Why send fifteen armies when two will do the job just fine?

Umm...I was attacking CTP way before some of you guys were anyway. Can I still attack him and land limited forces, or am I going to be IGNORED because I'm not important enough?

I was not on this for while...can anybody summarize what happened in April for me?

Thank you Sharina, thank you a million times. I'm getting sick of the million nations attacking an April05 nation for no other reason than "HE ATTACKED AMF!!!" So what if there's one person in the NS World who doesn't fear AMF? Does he think it'll do irreperable damage to his reputation? Frankly, even if AMF does choose to attack him, thats fine. Thats no cause for an entire AMF Fan Club to run after him and do the same. Grow up people.

The Real-Life NATO philosophy of "An attack upon 1 member means an attack aganist all 15 members of the alliance" should only apply if it is necessary for the defence of that nation or if all his allies are going to pitch in, each ally should only deploy enough elements to form a coalition army to defend. As well, no one is obligated to jump to war, every ally does not need to send their forces if they are not needed.

Why send fifteen armies when two will do the job just fine?

Exactly.

However, that is for DEFENSE of homelands and such. For INVASION of a nation that is only a fraction of the attacker's power / population, there is absouletely no need for allies to jump in. Just the attacker can handle it.

CTP has population of 83 million.
AMF has population of 4,549 million. (or 4.549 billion)

83 / 4549 = 1.8%.

AMF can easily handle CTP, as CTP is only 1.8% of AMF's population, or roughly 1/50 ratio. AMF can easily muster 100 million men for its army, considering its war-based society and a generous 2% population draft (5% is generally max realistic draft in NS standards).

There is really no need for Omz, Vastiva, Teh Ninjas, Praetonia, etc. to add their power to AMF's for the war aganist CTP. What's more is CTP isn't even attacking or taking hostile actions that would threaten AMF's allies (such as attacking Omz's, Vastiva's, Teh Ninja's, etc. capital cities and such).

With AMF's allies, the numbers would be like 10 billion aganist CTP's measly 83 million. This is incredibly stupid and unreasonable, even OOC'ly.

Is a 83 million nation of such enormous threat that multiple 2+ billion nations need to band together to take it down? For god's sakes, CTP doesn't even have nukes. He uses napalm missiles instead of nukes.



What's even more galling and what really makes me sick is that people were like "Okay, I will not dogpile." or "I'll support the nation being dogpiled aganist" only to do it again. In this case, the nations defended Feline Catfish (FC) because a dogpile was forming aganist Feline Catfish. The "defenders" took an anti-dogpile stance by helping FC.

Then CTP tries to do the right thing and prevent a possible nuclear war by trying to RP invading FC with only one goal, take his nukes. Nothing else.

Then the FC defenders spearheaded by AMF begin dogpiling on CTP, in a blatantly hypocritical act. They were doing the exact same act that they vowed to stop (dogpiling on CTP when they banded together to anti-dogpile FC).

Something that does seem stupid is that when AMF declares war on someone loads and loads of nations (some of which generally dont even RP on II) just put all their weight behind him. Why? What happened to national interest? My nation was planning with Dumpsterdam to seize a port (again, in Praetonia's self interest, not "helping the superpower") and that's all it's going to do. This was planned before AMF posted. I just dont udnerstand why nations replied to that thread and said things like "We will put all of our forces at AMF's disposal." although more eloquently. Why? WHY? WHY?

[/rant]

Point of fact the RWC and the RWI are disbanded (Although the friendships are there, you will probably just find we are too busy fighting each other (The Imperial Armies + Friends Civil War)...

NATO is a ghost of what it was and is mainly found on the NS board nowadays.

NWO is dead.

UWP is inactive.

As for the entire FC situation, give the guy credit... he livened up the II board without meaning to.

As for CTP I agree with Sharina, there is no need to doggypile... if you want a good war ask one of the decent and powerful players, they will usually be more than happy to play...

I highly suspect this CTP thing is more to do with ego's and boredom, than anything else.

AMF, if you read this, how about trying to teach CTP to RP (I may not like your style too much but you can RP reasonably IMO), rather than squashing him?

Bump!

Something that does seem stupid is that when AMF declares war on someone loads and loads of nations (some of which generally dont even RP on II) just put all their weight behind him. Why? What happened to national interest? My nation was planning with Dumpsterdam to seize a port (again, in Praetonia's self interest, not "helping the superpower") and that's all it's going to do. This was planned before AMF posted. I just dont udnerstand why nations replied to that thread and said things like "We will put all of our forces at AMF's disposal." although more eloquently. Why? WHY? WHY?

[/rant]

*Cough*

Just leave me out of it why don't ya. I had forces ready to pull an FWS on CTP before I was also involved in Dumps plan. Before the first thread was ignored, I had forces ready to sweep CTP, taking his country from him combined with you and Dump, in a matter of days. When AMF got involved, we had to step up our plans. Now I have to start again with my usual massive airstrikes until I've cleared a path for a limited invasion.

Though to fully admit my participation was OOCly somewhat out of boredom (and many IC reasons as well) and partially agrees with Sharina, I think that rather than a hard ignore by Call to Power and being ignored back as Praetonia had suggested, I do see it would be good to adopt a version of Praetonia's excellent third suggestion. But instead of limiting those participants to the ones who are believed to have done previous planning, my suggestion is to limit this to the few nations who had taken action against CTP first. At the same time, we also could encourage CTP's allies to join the RP, to a) offer resistance to the invaders and b) also teaching them some things about war in NS.

As well, just a note: the Omzian participation in the war can be rather seen as a "tactics-testing" session, where there are not much political aims /supporting/ the other invaders, but rather /against/ Call to Power as an independent faction. The whole bombing raid planning started since when Hogsweat attacked Call to Power (as a last measure if Hogsweat is bombed in retailation), and the /full/ authorization to go ahead with the operation was given when the government of Call to Power made a direct threat to our diplomatic personnel in Hogsweat, who are there for non-related meetings. Thus, the same bombing raid would go on even if there's no Automagfreek or McLeod, and as shown by the four-digit-figure and the large number of escorts, the formation of the raid was designed to be conduct alone by the Omzian Air Force - since the Omzian forces has /zero/ intention to actually invade and occupy CTP by land, or to fully assist in the invasion.

To the end however, the ball's in CTP's courts as to choose what way to take, though ignores would still have a negative effect in the long term.

(...)
I wasnt mentioning all the nations with a legitimate claim of invasion and not being AMF-bandwagoners, I was just saying that I had discussed my plan with Dump. Hogsweat and Skinny87 also got there before AMF... I apologise if I gave the impression that I said only me and Dump werent banwagoneers.

Message to: Omz222
from: CTP HQ

We....apologise for threatening your diplomats and agree to only attack invading forces

now if you would just call those bombers off we can talk

Message to: Omz222
from: CTP HQ

We....apologise for threatening your diplomats and agree to only attack invading forces

now if you would just call those bombers off we can talk
This is an OOC thread...

Big 1+ billion nations like Omz, Euroslavia, Vastiva, Teh Ninjas, etc. are beginning to dogpile aganist CTP and other March / April / May nations that are trying to come to his aid.

Correction. I've never threatened Call to Power in any post I've ever made, nor have I even attacked him, or sent any forces to Automagfreek's aid. Personally, I don't exactly appreciate being thrown into such a group. I've used political pressure to get Concador to back down, which is by no means an actual attack. Please get your facts straight before you accuse me of 'dogpiling' anyone.

Personally, I'd ignore such massive dogpiles. That is extremely poor RP etiquette.

If it was a big nation with a few small nations of CTP's size, then I'd encourage CTP *not* to ignore this dogpile invasion hypocrisy.

If it was just McLeod, along with Risban and maybe a few 50 million population nations, that'd be much more interesting and fair to CTP (as a player) to learn how to RP war and improve his RP.

But like Praetonia said, the dogpile happened because of AMF. Nations say "Oh, look! AMF's invading! Lets support him!" and pile on, thus giving CTP no chance to defend himself and keep his nation. CTP will probably quit NS because of the dogpile (After his nation is destroyed).

Is it a crime to do the right thing in NS? Is it taboo to try to fight evil? If new players are "eliminated" from NS via huge dogpiles without even giving the player a chance to improve RP and such, it is so wrong!



This is getting pretty bad, and I'm wondering whether we need to set up concrete rules to prevent this kind of crap from constantly happening.

But like Praetonia said, the dogpile happened because of AMF. Nations say "Oh, look! AMF's invading! Lets support him!" and pile on, thus giving CTP no chance to defend himself and keep his nation. CTP will probably quit NS because of the dogpile (After his nation is destroyed).
You are still ignoring the fact that there are still some nations, such as myself, who were not driven by Automagfreek's participation to "join" the invasion, when in actuality we were just beginning to conduct the final coordination tasks and assembling the formation when Automagfreek announced their intentions to invade. On a sign of good will and for other reasons however, I will do Call to Power a favour and call off the deployment of weapons from the raid.

Correction. I've never threatened Call to Power in any post I've ever made, nor have I even attacked him, or sent any forces to Automagfreek's aid. Personally, I don't exactly appreciate being thrown into such a group. I've used political pressure to get Concador to back down, which is by no means an actual attack. Please get your facts straight before you accuse me of 'dogpiling' anyone.

If Concador had refused your terms and resisted your diplomatic pressure, then you would initate an invasion of his land, wouldn't you? If that does take place, in doing so, you would become another one of the dogpilers.

If you weren't actually planning on invading Concador even if he refused your terms and ignored your diplomatic pressure, then I retract my statement of you being a dogpiler.

It's not taboo or a crime, just no one is up to the challenge to fight such powers as I don't think there are enough "good" nations out there to challenge the "evil" nations where imperialism and reputation is the game.

I'm trying to take a step towards being good though with the creation of a protectorate union, so I can at least try to watch over smaller nations.

You are still ignoring the fact that there are still some nations, such as myself, who were not driven by Automagfreek's participation to "join" the invasion, when in actuality we were just beginning to conduct the final coordination tasks and assembling the formation when Automagfreek announced their intentions to invade. On a sign of good will and for other reasons however, I will do Call of Power a favour and call off the deployment of weapons from the raid.

Understood.

However, Teh Ninjas is one of the nations who hasn't participated in FC's defense actively, but sees AMF invade CTP then immediately pledges assistance to AMF.

An example of "AMF supporter" Dogpile.

If Concador had refused your terms and resisted your diplomatic pressure, then you would initate an invasion of his land, wouldn't you? If that does take place, in doing so, you would become another one of the dogpilers.

If you weren't actually planning on invading Concador even if he refused your terms and ignored your diplomatic pressure, then I retract my statement of you being a dogpiler.

I never had plans of actually invading Concador. I don't believe in a July '03 nation invading such a small nation such as his, for such a reason. I intended on using political pressure only.

Edit: Not sure if you noticed before, but my nation supported Feline Catfish even before AMF did.. probably around the same time that you declared your support for FC's sovereignty.

OOC: Sorry, just want to seperate myself from the 'AMF and Allies' group. I had legitimate griefs with CTP before AMF declared a giant dogpile open on him. JUst wanted to get that open in writing. I'm not and never will be an AMF lackey, and I don't really like the idea of dog-piling CTP either. Now I've even limited my invasion to securing a small military base, not invading CTP fully...

I never had plans of actually invading Concador. I don't believe in a July '03 nation invading such a small nation such as his, for such a reason. I intended on using political pressure only.

Edit: Not sure if you noticed before, but my nation supported Feline Catfish even before AMF did.. probably around the same time that you declared your support for FC's sovereignty.

Thanks. I thereby retract my "grouping" of you with the dogpilers, and I apologize, Euro.

I am getting quite frustrated and annoyed with the dogpiles, though. This is really getting out of hand.

how about instead of protesting the actions of dogpilers you do something about it

how about instead of protesting the actions of dogpilers you do something about it

If this crap keeps up, I will.

(This has been stated in 1st post of this thread)

If this crap keeps up, I will.

(This has been stated in 1st post of this thread)

tell me how long has this crap gone on?
has this protest helped?

tell me how long has this crap gone on?
has this protest helped?

OOCly, since you declared war on FC. That got you noticed, and gave me my opportunity to make a break back into RPing on II. You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

ICly, it gave me an opportunity to move my country along. since June '03, I've always done the 'good' thing, and avoided civilian casualties. Since the King watched his wife and daughter die in the last civil war, I'm trying to show his descent into madness and darkness, dragging the whole country with him.

OOC: Sorry, just want to seperate myself from the 'AMF and Allies' group. I had legitimate griefs with CTP before AMF declared a giant dogpile open on him.

I don't know about you, but I don't remember Automagfreek actually asking other nations to join him... everyone bitches at Automagfreek because when he declares intent to invade a nation, a ton of smaller nations join in because he's doing it. He doesn't ask them to do it, they just do it... half the time he just ignores them and carries on with what he's doing.

I'm not at war with Call to Power and I never intend to be as it's not my problem... but Automagfreek had his reasons, as for the other nations which jumped on behind him, how about you blame them for dog piling on whatever AMF wants to do. Eitherway, Automagfreek did not declare "giant dogpile".

OOCly, since you declared war on FC. That got you noticed, and gave me my opportunity to make a break back into RPing on II. You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

ICly, it gave me an opportunity to move my country along. since June '03, I've always done the 'good' thing, and avoided civilian casualties. Since the King watched his wife and daughter die in the last civil war, I'm trying to show his descent into madness and darkness, dragging the whole country with him.

McLeod, I believe you can go ahead and do your thing, but AMF and Co. need to turn around and leave CTP for you and a few others to deal with, along with maybe a few CTP ally defenders.

Much more interesting and detailed RP that way, rather than dogpile of d00m where there's no chance of a recovery and "comeback" by CTP, who is a new player to NS.

I don't know about you, but I don't remember Automagfreek actually asking other nations to join him... everyone bitches at Automagfreek because when he declares intent to invade a nation, a ton of smaller nations join in because he's doing it. He doesn't ask them to do it, they just do it... half the time he just ignores them and carries on with what he's doing.

Iuthia, there's a simple solution.

AMF can say "Do not follow me. The war is one I alone shall make." or something along these lines to discourage people rallying to AMF.

I'd also appreciate it if you took my name out of your first post.

I have a wonderful idea for this... we pretend this never happened and go on with our lives.

Now to add to Sharina:

Yes it is taboo to do the right thing x.x

(sobs)

AMF can say "Do not follow me. The war is one I alone shall make." or something along these lines to discourage people rallying to AMF.

Thats up to him, but I agree that it would be the better thing to do. Though the fact he hasn't done that doesn't mean he encourages it either, which people on this thread seem to be suggesting. The guy didn't ask for other nations to join in, but he hasn't specifically said "I'm doing this alone" either... ulimately it's up to other nations to choose their reasons for war, Automagfreek has his and I don't feel it's entirely out of character for him to do it in the manner he is well known for. But if you want the others to stop piling on, you could try asking Automagfreek to tell them or you could tell them yourself.

Thats up to him, but I agree that it would be the better thing to do. Though the fact he hasn't done that doesn't mean he encourages it either, which people on this thread seem to be suggesting. The guy didn't ask for other nations to join in, but he hasn't specifically said "I'm doing this alone" either... ulimately it's up to other nations to choose their reasons for war, Automagfreek has his and I don't feel it's entirely out of character for him to do it in the manner he is well known for. But if you want the others to stop piling on, you could try asking Automagfreek to tell them or you could tell them yourself.

Yes, I realize its in AMF's IC to act the way he does, and I have considerable respect for AMF as a player and OOC'ly.

However, the problem with people like Teh Ninjas, Hataria, etc. are that if I ask them to not dogpile, they'd say "AMF is my ally, I must help my ally." That is not a good or valid excuse for an invasion of a nation 1 / 50 of AMF's size. If the nation being invaded was 2+ billion then the "AMF is my ally, I must help my ally" excuse would have far more credence and believability.

How can a 83 million nation with NO nukes be a threat of such magnitude that huge nations flock to AMF for the beat-down of CTP? AMF does not need ANY allies in this war, as he is fully capable of dealing with CTP on his own.

However, if AMF was being invaded, then I won't have any problems with Hataria or Teh Ninjas going "I must help AMF who is an ally" as defending your homeland is far different from invading and killing small nations (and in doing that, force newcomer RP's to quit due to I.I. ignoring them, saying "you don't exist anymore because you were destroyed").

I have a suggestion. There seem to be a decent enough group of people here, some fairly large. Why don't a few of us go to the aid of Call to Power? Show people that not only do we say we know what is right, but do it as well. Irregardless of wether any of you support this plan I am still going to go to his aid.

I did, but due to the fact that we would get gang-raped, I am withdrawing.

I'll come to his aid, however I need a summary of what happened.

I did, but due to the fact that we would get gang-raped, I am withdrawing.

stay in there man, I'm joining in the next few days. I've already sent supplies to Call to Power. Without you, we might not stand a chance.

Having just got wind of this situation I am rushing to CTP's aid as we speak.
There shall be a reckoning.

Anyway, the reason everybody is ganging up on CTP is because AMF 'annexed' him.

I need a summary before I can get involved all I know is that CTP is being attacked somehow related to the FC sit. Any more information I can get?

Unfortunately, even though I hate mixing OOC reasons with IC actions, this is one situation where it is required.

Also, I need help drawing up a MT military, I am actually FT but will switch to MT for this situation.

Having just got wind of this situation I am rushing to CTP's aid as we speak.
There shall be a reckoning.

Anyway, the reason everybody is ganging up on CTP is because AMF 'annexed' him.

Actually, it isn't. read the threads. I was planning on takin gover before AMF got involved. Hogsweat and CW were there before me. Dump and Prae were also planning to take him out before AMF got involved. So in fact, you're wrong. It's not the reason everybody is getting involved.

Me, McLeod, Hogsweat, Dumpsterdam, AMF and others got involved in this because Ctp is constantly attacking and trying to invade a nation called "Feline Catfish" which we support. We actually have a legitimate reason, you're just jumping in to stop AMF doing something just like others jumped onto the AMF bandwagon to help him. It's just stupid and reason-less.

Agrees wuth topic creator, I mean we dont want another shooban situation now do we?

Me, McLeod, Hogsweat, Dumpsterdam, AMF and others got involved in this because Ctp is constantly attacking and trying to invade a nation called "Feline Catfish" which we support.
Still, there are exceptions. We got involved not because of Feline Catfish, but rather because of Hogsweat, and the events that consequently resulted when we advised Call to Power to not attack Hogsweat because of the diplomatic meetings in Hogsweat with you, Freethinkers, Hogsweat, and us.

I am going to create a thread doing what I said earlier. If anyone is interested in joining, do so, but only if you can be mature about it.

Regardless of the reasons your still ganging up on a newbie because you can, dont expect people NOT to defend them because "you were planning to get involved anyway".

Dracun Imperium, heres what basically happened.


CTP wanted to invade FC just to seize FC's nukes to prevent a nuclear war. FC ignores CTP's god-modded attempt (CTP's very newbie at this kind of RP). Then AMF and Hogsweat and others decide to invade CTP. Then nations start dogpiling on CTP.

Whats worse, CTP doesn't have nukes like FC does, and CTP is a 83 million nation, considerably bigger than FC.

I find it nauseating that nations who declare "anti-dogpile" aganist the coalition that was gonna invade FC would do the opposite of their stance, namely dogpile CTP.

Regardless of the reasons your still ganging up on a newbie because you can, dont expect people NOT to defend them because "you were planning to get involved anyway".
So you're declaring war for OOC reasons, with no actual IC justification at all?

So you're declaring war for OOC reasons, with no actual IC justification at all?
I was planning to defend him all the long, how does that sound?
Perhaps my leader had a sentimental streak, or decided to score a few international brownie points by defending the small guy.

Ah thanks Sharina, I will be issuing a public statement, all who wish to help will join the thread in support?

I was planning to defend him all the long, how does that sound?
Perhaps my leader had a sentimental streak, or decided to score a few international brownie points by defending the small guy.
...

In other words no, you're just going to make cheap snipes? Good-O.

...

In other words no, you're just going to make cheap snipes? Good-O.
I think its rather better than six +billion nations gang raping an 83 million.
IC reasons are being arranged as we speak.

I think its rather better than six +billion nations gang raping an 83 million.
IC reasons are being arranged as we speak.
An 83m warmongerer... which wont be destroyed anyway if I get my way...

Gah, screw it... I'm getting closer to the point where I may actually start advising people to retcon the whole Feline Catfish / Call to Power messes and start over in a much more orderly fashion.

Lets face it, on one hand we have Feline Catfish, a nation which was getting ready to be invaded on no less then three different threads. On top of that there were at least four threads dedicated to offering a deal so that nations wouldn't invade Feline Catfish, in each case the deal wasn't getting anywhere simply because the only one Feline Catfish was willing to sign wasn't acceptable to invaders... hell, half the time most people missed them because of the number of threads about Feline Catfish. Now add the orginal threads which pissed off these nations in the first place, perhaps another four threads made by Feline Catfish. Then you add the minor plots revovling around the Feline Catfish incident as well as the OOC threads trying to sort the whole mess out.

Sound complex? Well, lets take it to the next level.

So now we easily have no less then twenty threads pretty much dedicated to the same nations and generally the same subject, most of them weren't aware of what the other lot were up to and we have alot of other nations declaring war simply because they are pissed off at the whole affair. So to simply matters the moderators and Feline Catfish finally say "enough is enough" and ask that everyone use one thread for IC matters, and another for OOC matters. Fair enough, some order looks like it's about to be reached.

However, on the side of the original mess, we now have nations like Call to Power as well as a few others who have reached the point during the original RP where they were invading Feline Catfish (though he couldn't tell because there were about twenty odd threads about wanting to invade Feline Catfish) and because of it Call to Power was now being counter-invaded.

To make sense of it, Call to Power, for reasons I'm not entirely sure of, decides that the events in the new organised Feline Catfish invasion thread is behind in the timeline to the counter-invasion thread he was currently RPing with others like Belem.

This time split adds a new dimension to the chaos... afterall, we have nations RPing the future in the original counter-invasion thread, and Call to Power getting ready to invade in the new organised Feline Catfish Invastion thread. In a sense I could understand it, but myself and Praetonia were confused as to how he was requesting allies openly while he was secretly preparing an invasion because of the time split.

The chaos now reaching it's peak, another one of the Call to Power threads asking for allies reaches the point were he and Omz222 were arguing over the state of war between Hogsweat and Call to Power, the war which is supposed to be in the future now. Threats are made towards Omz222 as he points out that he will not accept an invasion against Hogsweats land, these threats lead to the new level of chaos as Automagfreek comes back into the picture, finally responding to the threats and invasions from Call to Power, resulting in the current Call to Power mess we are in now.


Who is to blame? God knows... I imagine there are mistakes even in that brief description of the events leading up to where we are now as it's impossible to really tell what the hell is going on anymore. Needless to say that the problem here is organisation.

Simply put everything is mixed up and proper information is hard to get... someone will join in, ask someone else what the problem is and get information which is kind of true, but isn't exact. Do this several times and the information you get at the end of it all is warped beyond recognition.

So personally I think that the best way to really fix this whole thing would be to scrap where we are now, and maybe start out all over again at the start of Feline Catfish and their situation... take our time with it and RP it properly, keeping each situation to one thread, linked to one another for easy navigation.

Of course, who wants to go through all this again? I really don't know... but continuing from where we are and you'll have to deal with time problems and god knows what else.

I don't know about you, but a retcon sounds good to me after all this.

*agrees* I would gladly do so.

I've already spotted a few mistakes in my review as others are saying the original invasion of Feline Catfish was ignored for godmoding... eitherway it further illustrates my point that this whole thing has lost pretty much any sense it managed to save in the compilation thread.

That said, I imagine if people really wanted to we wouldn't have to retcon to the start, but just totally retcon the Call to Power sideline invasions and assume that we're at the steady standoff around Feline Catfish... personally I feel even that situation has alot of issues which are confused because of the amount of trouble getting to that point, so I would feel it would be better to go all the way, though I could understand people not wanting to retcon that far back.

Horrah for retcon!

When I sent off my fleet to CtP I remember only a couple nations which were actually going to carry out strikes against CtP not an invasion. A '03 nation was assisting in CtP's defense with several hundred thousand soldiers so I thought that this would be a decent RP, considering I'm only going to be sending a small fleet and roughly 42,000 marines. I figured that nothing else was happening on II so why not.

My IC intent was not to kill every last CtP citizen and completely ravage the nation. I was going to take a sizable chunk of the nation, and hand it over to the corporations. The corporations in turn would then transform the land into an industrial center to increase productivity and money. The new industrial facilities would be needed due to the continious growth of our population, which limits the space factories could be built upon. Then during my Civil War which I plan to have in about a week, my new government would hand over the CtP territory back to it's people. I never wanted to make the CtP territory my permament overseas colony. I only have one territory and that's from a war I fought when I was a 100-200 million nation.

The reason I didn't participate in the FC issue was that I knew that somehow the entire incident was going to lead to a massive ignore. Once too many nations become involved with an incident and the RP is not controlled properly then that causes problems.

I am most definitely not in it for the glory. ICly I'm in it for the land and the potential income from the new territories. And I wouldn't mind fighting someone of my size or greater if the situation presented itself.

If it had been any other ally of mine, invaded any other nation regardless of size I would of done the same thing. Except I would of sent a larger naval task force.

I'm somewhat dismayed that Sharina specifically mentioned me as a "AMF Bandwaggoner" when this is the first time I've assisted AMF militarily.

OOC: To be honest this whole thing it making my head hurt. Im logging out of the forums, and I wont be back until tomorrow when hopefully everyone will have sorted this out. Bye.

I don't know about you, but I don't remember Automagfreek actually asking other nations to join him... everyone bitches at Automagfreek because when he declares intent to invade a nation, a ton of smaller nations join in because he's doing it. He doesn't ask them to do it, they just do it... half the time he just ignores them and carries on with what he's doing.

I'm not at war with Call to Power and I never intend to be as it's not my problem... but Automagfreek had his reasons, as for the other nations which jumped on behind him, how about you blame them for dog piling on whatever AMF wants to do. Eitherway, Automagfreek did not declare "giant dogpile".

EXACTLY.

Sharina, I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. Some of your posts are giving me the idea that I'M dogpiling CTP. Well, let me share a few things with you.

First off, you nor anyone else on NS can blame ME personally because there is an 'AMF Bandwagon'. I did not create said 'bandwagon' nor do I endorse it, it is just one of those things that always follows me around no matter what I do. I cannot be the one to blame for this, and I will gladly close the war with CTP if he wants to bring in an ally or two to even it up. So far it's looking like it will be me, McLeod, and Dumpsterdam (those were the original 2 participants, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.) versus CTP and whoever else he wants to bring in.

I'm really getting sick of people making me out to be the bad one because people come out of the woodwork whenever I do anything of military nature. If you cannot already tell, the wars between myself and The Burnsian Desert, and myself and Bob-Bob have been closed to prevent such a thing from happening. Although I really do not have anything to prove to anyone, I feel it is my obligation to fight these 2 wars alone to 'prove' to people that I am not 100% reliant on allies.

Whatever happened to the saying, don't hate the player, hate the game?

Me, McLeod, Hogsweat, Dumpsterdam, AMF and others got involved in this because Ctp is constantly attacking and trying to invade a nation called "Feline Catfish" which we support. We actually have a legitimate reason, you're just jumping in to stop AMF doing something just like others jumped onto the AMF bandwagon to help him. It's just stupid and reason-less.

If you're grouping me with the stop AMF bandwagon then think again. Ask AMF himself, I told him specifically when he first created the thread that I disapproved and that I probably would fight against him. In fact, let me get a piece of the log:


------------------
[05:34] <Japanese_Antarctica> hey
[05:36] <+Automagfreek> yo
[06:15] <Japanese_Antarctica> hmm
[06:15] <Japanese_Antarctica> so AMF, you're going to annex call to power?
[06:16] <+Automagfreek> yep
[06:17] <+Automagfreek> he crossed the line when he started threatening neutral nations
[06:18] <Japanese_Antarctica> oh really?
[06:18] <Japanese_Antarctica> hmmm
[06:19] <+Automagfreek> yep
[06:19] <Japanese_Antarctica> it's a bit extreme
[06:19] <Japanese_Antarctica> i'm going against you on this one :)
[06:19] <+Automagfreek> as extreme as destruction?
[06:19] <Japanese_Antarctica> nah
[06:19] <+Automagfreek> you can side against me, but i plan on totally destroying all that stand in my way
-------------------

Just so everyone knows :).

OOC: Well, I put a lot of effort into my posts for this whole thing, and I hate seeing good work going to pot, not just mine but everyones, but perhaps its best to finally put this thing to sleep. Retcon the whole thing, CTP being invaded, the whole dogpiling thing, FC being invaded and blockaded. It would be for the best.

I have had the thread locked. I am sick of the bickering, the godmoding, and the BS that has accompanied it.

If I have to now resort to making EVERY war I'm involved in closed or invite only, I will do so. I am SICK and TIRED of war RP's that I'm involved in ending this way.

I have had the thread locked. I am sick of the bickering, the godmoding, and the BS that has accompanied it.

If I have to now resort to making EVERY war I'm involved in closed or invite only, I will do so. I am SICK and TIRED of war RP's that I'm involved in ending this way.

It happens to us all man. Almost every war on here ends in a retcon, or mass ignore, or everyone just gives up. It pisses me off, but all people recommend these days is "Well, ignore it" or "Retcon it. People may have spent hours on it, who cares, just throw it away".

I.I was once a fun place to be, where wars were over in a day, or could stretch for weeks and still be good. Why? Because people didn't over-use the ignore cannon like they do now. Now the most successful RPs are closed one's, which piss me off because it means that to RP, you have to find an open one, which ALWAYS ends in a retcon. It is, for want of a better and less crude word, shit.

It was for the best that the thread became "non-existent", but unfortunately AMF you may just have to do that.

I cannot be the one to blame for this, and I will gladly close the war with CTP if he wants to bring in an ally or two to even it up. So far it's looking like it will be me, McLeod, and Dumpsterdam (those were the original 2 participants, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.) versus CTP and whoever else he wants to bring in.
1) Skinny87 and Hogsweat got there way before Dumpsterdam et al... not that it really matters now.

2) Not once did I blame you for the "groupies" but you cant deny that they are there, and they irritate me. That's all I'm saying. As far as groupies are concerned you're a neutral entity in my mind.

3) I agree with what others have said about II RPs. The real problem is that there arent very many interesting RPs and there are hordes of bored nations scrambling to get involved in the few that are there, leading to vast confusion and the whole thing going to ignore because of 1 godmodder. II is about to hit rock bottom...

:headbang: It happens to us all man. Almost every war on here ends in a retcon, or mass ignore, or everyone just gives up. It pisses me off, but all people recommend these days is "Well, ignore it" or "Retcon it. People may have spent hours on it, who cares, just throw it away".

I.I was once a fun place to be, where wars were over in a day, or could stretch for weeks and still be good. Why? Because people didn't over-use the ignore cannon like they do now. Now the most successful RPs are closed one's, which piss me off because it means that to RP, you have to find an open one, which ALWAYS ends in a retcon. It is, for want of a better and less crude word, shit.

I agree. This conflict would have been the first wars that Riconiaa has ever been involved in. This (as I have observed it) was one of the best (but the first) RP's I have come across. I enjoyed some light-RPing but now since the entire thing is a huge ignore-war and most nations are vouching for retcon, it's mostly a giant blunder in RP history. :headbang:

Oh dear...

Events like this happen every once in a while...

As for boredom, why not arrange some interesting wars between the powers that be. Praetonia, we've still got to duke it out as well :D

As for everything, perhaps someone ought to take CTP under their wing so to speak and fight a series of Closed Wars in order to teach him to RP.

I would like to finally say I will not be participating in this issue anymore as a weeks work of counting losses posting massive stuff on how to stop big nations and then having to do it again then again

The Theocracy of Call to power
Received: 29 minutes ago

lol I win

Um..no, you don't win. This was has been retconned due to your godmoding, the dogpiling, and most importantly the OOC bickering. If you do not understand what 'retcon' means, please read the sticky threads. This war never took place, and nobody 'wins'.

Um..no, you don't win. This was has been retconned due to your godmoding, the dogpiling, and most importantly the OOC bickering. If you do not understand what 'retcon' means, please read the sticky threads. This war never took place, and nobody 'wins'.

Don't even dignify him with a response, AMF. TG me if you want to know a little of how to stay very active and still not RP with half the world (exagerattion).

I learned during my 3-year tenure RP'ing on Redwall sites (something I still do). Useful it, is.

[/hijack] [/advertisment]

OOC:
Concerning Risban's participation in "Dogpiling" CTP, I will point out that CTP assaulted Risban's people first. The government responded accordingly.

Is the invasion over? Or do the other nations involved (those not named Automagfreek) plan to continue it?

Look at me! I'm going to invade Greater Valia, an August 2003 nation.

What the hell?

EDIT: Just saw your post. You can view my answer there.

AMF, I apologize if I made it sound like you were at fault. I'm not blaming you, AMF. I am blaming the nations who rally to you, which results in the dogpile.

I would be happy if this war was only limited to AMF vs CTP with perhaps one or two medium sized allies (300 - 800 million each) helping CTP. Thus, no dogpiling. That way, AMF can teach CTP how to RP, without 10+ nations rallying behind AMF for a cheap victory.


I have a good suggestion on how to stop all this dogpiling nonsense. Simply make a few easy rules in RP's from now on.

1. Establish maximum limits of how many nations can join the open RP.

Set the limit to something like 4 allies max per each side. This means there will be no 10+ nation dogpiles aganist a single nation, while maintaining the possibility for open RP's.

2. Dogpiling is off-limits aganist nations under 500 million population.

Nations that dogpile unfairly aganist nations of 500 million or less should be put on a black-list. Then take action aganist the dogpilers accordingly. What can be constituted as dogpiling in this situation would be something like 3+ nations of 2+ billion going aganist a 500 million nation who has NO allies to help him / her.

However, far larger nations would be much more able to withstand a substantial dogpile than newbies and newcomers to NS. For example, a 4+ billion nation can withstand an dogpile of 5 - 10 invaders for an extended period of time. However, a 100 million nation won't be capable of such a feat, unless their enemies are all 5 - 10 million population nations.

3. If dogpiling does happen, then the RP'ers should reserve the right to IGNORE the dogpilers.

This would make the dogpilers learn their lesson, like some god-modders learn their lesson not to god-mod from being IGNORED or "criticized aganist".

4. Large nations of 1+ billion are not to completely invade or raze small nations of 100 million or less.

This means that small nations would last much longer, and have a far larger window of opporunity to learn how to RP properly without oblivion and utter acopalypse being rammed down their throats by bored or impatient "huge, old, wise" nations.

Small scale invasions can still happen, just no 100% destruction of the enemy. The most destruction should be at 40% - 50% tops. Then allow the "victim" reasonable chances to regain their lost territory.



If we follow these three simple guidelines, we can avoid more FC and CTP situations, and there would be far less whining. More newbies would be eager to join RP's and learn how to RP knowing that they won't be razed to the ground in a second (or so to speak). The newbies will be able to try new things, without fear of utter annilihation.

I simply had to speak my mind, and I am very blunt and honest with my opinions. I don't fudge it over, or "beat around the bush" because otherwise, nothing will be truly understood or get done.

I agree with everything you say there exept the limit on the number of allies. But, I do agree that there should be a controlled amount of allies for each side, but it has to be unlimited amounts of allies can join, it is just that they have to be equally distributed between both sides, that way, it can be a big war, but not a dogpile. How does that sound?