NationStates Jolt Archive

-Standard OOC Disclaimer: This technology is decidedly post modern tech though with a certain amount of basis established through experiments conducted by Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, and Purdue University, just to name a few of the facilities engaged in such pursuits. In addition, I claim to possess no additional special knowledge, advanced technical expertise, and or prescience in the matter; after all this is a game which is meant to be fun, and my fun is in creating technology. Sorry if this might seem a bit over the top, but I hope with such precautions we can avoid unnecessary burdens (i.e. "This is not modern technology so I shall ignore...") and focus on constructive OOC and IC interests.

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IC:

HIFEX NEWS AGENCY: Eldaimovey Advanced Research Laboratories (EARL) - Schultaria Prime, Schultaria Prime

-Available for immediate international release...

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The Central Scientific Collective of Schultaria Prime, based in the Research Laboratory metropolis of Eldaimovey, has announced the publication of several print and video articles produced by Schultarian researchers stating that they have successfully engineered and tested a bubble fusion reactor on a macroscopic energy production scale with successful results. Working on pioneering research developed by The State Industries of Schultaria Prime, the Haarvekord Foundation, and the University of Schultaria Prime - Schultaria Prime, the research team under the leadership of Katherine Ormich and Douglass Kronsen submitted their findings publicly in an article titled, "Practical Development and Application of Low Temperature Deuterium Fusion Utilizing Sonic Compression" which is scheduled to be officially published at the end of the month.

While still in the process of extensive local and international peer review, the details of the reactor have been partially available to the general scientific community for analysis and public display. Using refined sub atomic detection equipment developed by The Alliance of Pure Research and Engineering States (TAPRES) and engineering modeling produced by the University of Schultaria Prime - Dolec, researchers were able to observe Neutron and Tritium emissions several hundred million factors larger than in any previously controlled bubble fusion experiments. In a complete analysis of the data, the test reactor produced approximately four megawatts of energy per second on average over a period of some twenty five seconds while the experiment was at full capacity.

This experiment, unlike "hot" fusion which requires the sustained ability to retain plasma at several million degrees centigrade, allows for energy to be produced at temperatures far below the formation of most plasma. The fuel, composed of deuterium-infused acetone vapor, was subjected to repeated ultrasonic oscillation within the central reactor core, causing bubbles within the vapor to violently expand and contract. Given the physical properties of these bubbles, temperatures can approach a level suitable for fusion during brief periods of time; in this short period, the encapsulated deuterium is fused within the chaotic acetone environment and released within several millionths of a second.

Douglass Kronsen is currently employed as a researcher for the Eldaimovey Advanced Research Laboratories where he works in the High Energy Projects Division as a full time theoretical physicist. Katherine Ormich is currently employed as Chair of the Physics Graduate Program for the University of Schultaria Prime System where she has held the position for the last eight years. Both scientists have worked together on several pioneering nuclear energy projects, producing nearly ninety patents jointly and over three hundred individually; such efforts include the research and design of the Haarvekord Mk. I - VII series of fission reactors and the Jentexa NERVA Class Nuclear Plasma Engine.

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Public Statistics: Test Reactor (Mark I Prototype)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/emschultz/bubble2.jpg
-Mark I Prototype in a Physical Comparison to the Haarvekord Mark IV Nuclear Reactor

Dimensions: Length: (9.15 m) | Width: (9.15 m) | Height: (22.8 m) | Weight: (382,500 kg)

Fuel Source: Deuterated Acetone Vapor Activated by Sonic Compression

Cooling System / Power Generation: 3 Stage High Pressure Water Flow

Emergency Safeguards:
+Automatic Acoustic Interrupt (Terminate on Overheat / Electrical Overload)
+Fuel Feed Repression (Activated by Reactor Pressurization and/or Overheat)

Net Power Generation:
+Experimental Limit (4 Megawatts / sec)
+Theoretical Limit (70 Megawatts / sec)

Current Research Expenditure: $ 31,525,000,000

ooc: Amazing. You have my undivided attention. Tag.

OOC: :eek: Tag! GO TAPRES!

OOC: tag

OOC: I would think that the R+D budget for this was a lot more than $31.5 billion. Other than that, I don't have very many complaints about it.

When I was researching volcanology and tectonics to allow me to create Hawaii-style archipelagoes, I rped the original research costing in the trillions, paid for and conducted over a decade, but that's just me. :)

OOC: The expenditure is just on the reactor prototype (although I see that I appear to very be vague in that aspect and I apologize), but there are other factors that play into the reduced cost of the research budget. Here are two (just for the interest of speed since it's three thirty in the morning here and "study day" for my finals is in nine hours.)

The "Forty Faces" of Haarvekord: A text produced one hundred and fifteen years ago by Doctor Kevem Haarvekord (Grandfather to Director Sarnow Haarvekord) outlining the theory, design, and basic research principles of some of Schultaria Prime's most advanced technical devices. In this series of collections, he wrote designs on everything from government policy structures to linear accelerators all at a time when the fission age and electronic revolution in Schultaria Prime were still roughly three decades away. Think of this work as DaVinci’s notebook but with far more practical design applications and less veiled attempts at coding.

Publicly available research designs: In the interests of furthering knowledge, this research is not completely and fully novel. It is simply an expansion of research done earlier in Schultaria's scientific culture (through the institutions already featured on the first post). When you design an automobile, you don't have to go through the process of discovering engineering, chemistry, and physics every time you design the next model of a product line; this project (though a distinct departure from previous experiments along such lines) essentially utilizes the same basic research principles as previous prototype reactor designs.

HIFEX NEWS AGENCY: Eldaimovey Advanced Research Laboratories (EARL) - Schultaria Prime, Schultaria Prime

-Available for immediate international release...

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In a public announcement made nearly two hours ago by the Directors of the Central Scientific Collective of Schultaria Prime, Doctors Ormich and Kronsen, and the National Assembly, a formal invitation and peer review session concerning the development and testing of the Mark I bubble fusion reactor prototype has been extended to the international scientific community. Announced in advance of any further extensive testing, the scientific community of Eldaimovey's High Energy Physics Division has begun the next phase of retrofitting and refurbishing the reactor for an even larger series of examinations to be conducted sometime within the next fourteen days. "This will give us a chance to examine the effects of the fusion reaction on the internal components," noted Katherine Ormich, "while at the same time offering members of the international scientific community a chance to identify and hopefully remedy any problems we might have overlooked in the design."

Ecstatic about the first successful test, the National Assembly authorized several new resolutions increasing the long term funding of similar fusion experiments currently being conducted in the University of Schultaria Prime - Colloi and the University of Schultaria Prime - Dolec in addition to bolstering the Eldaimovey project's coffers by as much as 150% over the next five years. "The Physicists of Schultaria Prime are to be commended on this breakthrough," said Assemblyman Gregor Nalken, leader of the minority Socialistia Kollabraci (Socialist Collective) Party, in a speech to the National Assembly, "Perhaps, in time, such technology will help to reduce our need to rely on dangerous fission products..."

Public demonstrations of the reactor design and small scale recreations of the principle will be available for perusal in every major city of Schultaria Prime and Islandia Schultaria free of charge. Any and all members of the Physics community specializing either in Plasma, High Energy Particle, Quantum, Fusion, or Nuclear fields are encouraged to meet the Ormich Kronsen research team for a public forum concerning the development of more stable reactor designs at the Eldaimovey International Village.

-End News Feed

Message from CTP science central

We offer any assistance possible in advancing this kind of technology and offer a joint programme with our own fusion research

A BUMP for more exposure.

OOC:

I've been researching MFE type and ICF type of fusion, trying to determine which one would be better for a MT / PMT setting.

MFE (Magnetic Field Effect) = tokomak reactors and basically magentic containment.

ICF (Internal Containment Field) = use spheres of deterium, and use plamsa to initate a chain reaction in it, reaching the high tempatures for fusion.


I believe that the MFE would be suitable for stationary power generation, and the ICF would be better for mobile power generation like in navy ships and space vessels.

OOC:

Sharina, are you asking for my opinion on the types of power systems you are currently researching, or drawing comparisons to the reactor design that I've IC'ly developed? I'm just curious as to the direction of your post, given the lack of direct wording towards any specific party in the thread, and would be very appreciative to know the direction of your statements (I know the forum address for your fusion research so I can dig it up if need be if this post was a comparison between the reactor technologies). In addition, I would be very appreciative if you joined the thread on either an OOC or IC basis; it would be great to have another technically minded nation interacting on the thread.

OOC:

Schultaria, I apologize for my lack of wording. I was slightly pre-occupied at the time. I do have an interest in your fusion research, and I am quite willing to join it either IC'ly or OOC'ly.

Before I begin, I'd like to know how my two possible types of fusion power compares aganist your bubble fusion power. I've been looking for clean power generation for my NS nation for a while now. I've dabbled in hydrogen fuel cells, nuclear power, and fusion power.

However, due to the lack of feedback and constructive criticism of my research projects, they died out. I completely understand the frustrations that you probably go through when you RP out excellent research posts, and nearly nobody responds or comments on them. I would be more than happy to participate in your research RP's and such. Once again, I apologize for my vague post.


Speaking of research, I registered on the TAPRES forum, but I don't think I got an "Account confirmation" yet.



EDIT: I found my fusion thread. Actually, I had two.

Research:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359427

Opening my first fusion power plant:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362753



Hope that helps. :)

OOC for Sharina:

There are a few notable differences in comparing the three designs, but for purposes of general observation I'll point out the larger ones for analysis.

1. The Process of Fusion Initiation

The process of Fusion in the Schultarian reactor is activated by the intense dynamic energy generated on the surface of trillions of bubbles suspended in a Deuterium rich Acetone vapor. To maximize the energy in the reactor, a sustained ultrasonic pulse is employed to stress the vapor into popping more of these bubbles than would happen under ordinary natural circumstances; when enough bubbles are popped in a significant volume, the total energy output of the reactor will exceed input and begin to "warm up" In bubbles of particularly small surface area, the energies released are violent enough to generate fusion for a brief moment when in contact with deuterium, providing the necessary energy to "warm" the reactor compartment.

2. The Thermal Properties of the Reactor during Fusion

The enormous energies of heat produced by nuclear fusion are not absent in Bubble Fusion, but instead are dissipated over a larger internal volume and require less direct containment. The average surface area of a fusion producing bubble inside the reactor is probably no more than perhaps a few thousand square Angstroms and could perhaps engage as many as two or three pairs of deuterium atoms to fuse under the right conditions. However, since this reaction takes places in a suspended gas, the energies of this reaction dissipate in all directions and are not concentrated enough to last for more than several millionths of a second (similar to how a linear accelerator impact target can survive even though it's exposed to temperatures equal to fusion). Nonetheless, if you gather enough of these small independent reactions together the internal energy of the entire contained unit will begin to add up.

Essentially, compared to the violent temperatures of other fusion systems, this reactor classifies as a "tabletop" or "room temperature" device compared to direct plasma systems. (Though the temperature of the vapor exceeds 300 - 400 degrees Celsius in most circumstances.)

3. Safety Devices

Since the reactor does not operate with the constant thermal bombardment that direct plasma reactors frequently manipulate, several key redundant and containment systems are notably absent from the reactor system. The major devices not present are the massive electrical coils required to hold and sustain the fusion reaction; since the reactor temperature should seldom rise above the auto ignition temperature of Acetone (540 degrees Celsius), most modern materials have the ability to hold the reaction without much damage. Instead of worrying about the problems concerned with holding and sustaining the reaction, bubble fusion must instead worry about insuring the Acetone reaction moderator does not leak or ignite into a fireball. Though exposure to the moderator is tolerable in small doses (think of standard nail polish: pungent but otherwise safe in small period of time), the toxic effects of mass exposure and explosive reaction warrant the installation of several additional safety systems. Special attention is paid to the reactor, where the internal environment is carefully monitored and insured against ignition through the introduction of an inert atmospheric environment similar to normal atmosphere.

I hope that shows some of the larger differences between the three devices.

-As for your membership, I never saw your name on the membership application thread so I assumed that you were still mulling over the prospect of reapplying. I'll make sure to examine the forum logs and see to expediting your membership.

A BUMP for the Evening.

*TAG* Sounds great, I wonder if you would be willing to sell the plans, or just a few reactors, but probably not, so disregard that.

OOC:

Right now the reactor is only in its early development stages and isn't ready as a "full production" model yet. However I do appreciate your enthusiasm and might consider selling such devices in the near future.

A BUMP for the Late Afternoon.

A BUMP for the Evening.

-Guess no one will take up the offer of the peer review session. Oh well, I'll finalize the reactor's development if there's no additional interest in furthering the research RP.

OOC: *beats on SP for not posting this in the TAPRES board*

A BUMP for the Evening.

-Guess no one will take up the offer of the peer review session. Oh well, I'll finalize the reactor's development if there's no additional interest in furthering the research RP.
Well I would help but I'm kinda dumb when it comes to things like this, but please note theat if this technonlgy is ever up for sale please contact me as I would like to buy it.

OOC: I'm still working on the proper press release, but here's the newest prototype in the series. I probably won't submit the full IC portion of this post until Tuesday (for reasons out of my ability to control).

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Mark IV OrmiKron (First Commercial Prototype) Bubble Fusion Reactor (OrKr - Hv428)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/emschultz/reactor2.jpg

-Mark IV Concept Rendering from the Ormich / Kronsen Research Team: Eldaimovey, Schultaria Prime

Dimensions: Length: (6.25 m) | Width: (6.25 m) | Height: (18.36 m) | Weight: (245,750 kg)

Fuel Source: Deuterated Acetone Vapor Activated by Sonic Compression

Cooling System / Power Generation: 3 Stage High Pressure Water Flow

Core Protection: 17.25 cm Titanium / Aluminum Alloy with Ceramic Core Inserts to Absorb Excess Heat from Reactor Vessel

Emergency Safeguards:
+Automatic Acoustic Interrupt (Terminate on Overheat / Electrical Overload)
+Fuel Feed Repression (Activated by Reactor Pressurization and/or Overheat)
+Automatic Reactor Vacuum Flush (Removal of all Combustible Material in Event of Approaching Autoignition Temperature with Oxygen)

Net Power Generation:
+Experimental Limit (89 Megawatts / sec)
+Theoretical Limit (195 Megawatts / sec)

Might we suggest making this a tier three Designwerks offering?

OOC: The one thing I have to say I'd change is instead of using pure deuterium like the ones being tested IRL, you might have to use a half blend, or pure formula, of He3, reason being the deuterium ones of today don't have positive energy yields(and are being used as neutron emitters instead), and He3 is basically a more powerful fuel for fusion reactions. Plus the need to mine it off the moon gives it a balancing factor and makes it more PMT. I mean, I'm not sure its impossible to do it using only deuterium, and I'm not actually sure if its possible to use He3 the same way, but...... you get the idea.

OOC:

First off, I'm assuming that you are talking about T (Tritium or H3) instead of He3 (Helium-3) since such products are the result of fusion reactions and are generally harder to extract energy from in the fusion process. Sorry about being pedantic in this sense, but I just want to make sure that I understand your position relative to mine as it makes a whole world of difference in fusion reactions. If I am wrong in assuming this I apologize, but I perceive most fusion (in the modern sense) as interactions between hydrogen isotopes with Helium as the end product (with He3 being an interesting light isotope of Tritium reactions).

The other reason I've decided to utilize a pure deuterium Acetone solution is specifically because of the costs of refining and processing Tritium terrestrially. I know that it can be manufactured in significant quantities for the production of nuclear weapons, but the total amount of this Isotope on the planet earth is so small that its costs for use in energy production are very prohibitive for widespread usage. While deuterium might be less powerful, the actual energy produced for consumption is collected through heat transfer and steam generation; although it could certainly lead to less total input energy into the system for maximum benefit, I'll attempt to pursue other options merely as RP'ed development. Mainly, I want to pursue the fact that sonic reactors could possess the unique ability to sustain reactions without a continual feed of power for short periods of time which might allow for a reduction of input energy (as the ultrasonic pulses echo off the internal reactor chamber) as a method of power reduction.

OOC: Wow looks good, tell me when it comes out for IC export I'll buy it.

OOC:

TAG

I would love to get my hands on some of these reactors. I'll pay billions for plans or reactors, whatever you want. I'm going PMT and could use a nice new power source.

A BUMP for the Afternoon.

OOC: Basically I say you might want to use He3 because it is easier to get energy from once you have it firing, because it releases charged particles. ATM you are using neutrons to heat up water to use in a steam turbine, which is extremely inefficient and might not break-even(which is why bubble fusion today is being used as a portable neutron source rather than a power generator). The fact that DD releases huge amounts of neutrons will also cause large amounts of maintenance and design issues because it will need more shielding. Anyway, a rough comparison of what the two systems look like would be(all according to a chart I found):

What you have now if you let it run on its own stuff, ignoring all the energy release, and assuming sonofusion can trigger these things:
D + D -> He3 + n (50% of the time)
D + D -> T + p (50% of the time)
since there is T now floating around, you'll have a small amount of
D + T -> He4 + n
and
T + T -> He4 + 2n
and possibly that He3 from above will go into a few
D + He3 -> He4 + p
and
He3 + T -> He4 + p + n (51% of the time)
He3 + T -> He4 + D (43% of the time)
He3 + T -> He4 + n + p (6% of the time, with different energy than above)

as opposed to:
He3 + He3 -> He4 + 2p

Anyway, thats all assuming those kinds of reactions can actually be produced in a sonofusion machine, which I don't know if they can or not. Assuming it is possible, He3 + He3 is the cleanest reaction, and the resulting protons can be made directly into electricity with no steam turbine in between.

Then again, I'm probably missing something super-vital.

OOC:

It might be possible to produce helium fusion, but I'm not entirely sure the dynamic surface of micro bubbles can produce the far greater energies required to fuse helium (the temperatures are often in excess of 1 x 10^8 Kelvin) though it might be possible. In addition, you could say that bubble fusion in its preliminary stages today could be comparable to nuclear fission research in the pre World War II Era; the process has been proven in a few small scale experiments, but there is very little definable evidence as to how much energy could be practically released from such items at the time.

Although you might be right in your estimates about the fusing of just pure deuterium and the significant energies produced by helium, I do still have two concerns. As for D + D reactions, I would personally not be dissuaded if the reactor took a little "priming" time to produce the atoms necessary to produce energies of significant quantity; it could certainly save on the costs of trying to extract such material from "native" sources as well as provide a bit of balance to the reactor's pros.

Although the transmission of heat into steam power is somewhat inefficient, it is a proven way to convey and transmit energy from mechanical to electric means in most conventional power generation facilities. However, I am open to the concepts of proton and electron capture, provided that the methodology as to how to extract pure protons and produce electricity could be properly explained. If such a process is capable, then most of our energy needs could be acquired from beta radiation sources making the entire process of energy generation moot without having to worry about needless refinement of existing power sources. Perhaps a joint RP'ed project on this aspect might be a tempting offer for both of our nations and provide us a considerable edge on the NS energy market.

In addition, energy problems aside in all aspects of hydrogen and helium fusion, the byproduct of Helium-4 would still play a contentious role after the combination of Deuterium + He3 and He3 + He3. Since sonic fusion is a continuous process, and the energies of Helium-3 fusion are now being intermixed by the dynamic surfaces of trillions of mini reactions, Helium 4 could potentially fuse into Beryllium 8 with the eventuality of transforming into Carbon 12 given an adequate enough helium density. These heavier elements could play havoc with the reaction as the material begins to collect within the acetone vapor leading to problems within the reactor core.

BUMP for the Morning.

OOC: As you say, neither of us has a clue as to whether it is possible to do He3 fusion using a sonofusion device. So if it turns out it can't then this is all moot.

Priming would take energy, probably harvested from normal steam generation, but once it got up to He3 reactions and began absorbing electricity directly, it would become much more efficient.

When free protons are released, they will immediately grab electrons off whatever they can, these ionized(?) chemicals will proceed to try and do the same to something else, and so on and so forth, which will cause a migration of electrons(electricity). The only problem I could see is, this will obviously corrode the electrode used to extract energy, which will have to be replaced every once in a while. This may or may not cost more than maintenance to turbine systems, I'm not sure, but it will be much more compact and much more efficient. If it turns out He3 can be fused on normal bubble fusion, this process will allow for the creation of extremely powerful compact generators but they would require regular electrode swapping.

Bubble fusion isn't exactly a constant process, it cycles between growing the bubbles, letting them collapse, then growing them again, and from the sources I've read it takes 5 microseconds for the bubbles to grow. Be8 decays in a few(6 or 8, I'm short on time) picoseconds so it is pretty hard to fuse. C12 results when 3 atoms of He4 fuse simultaneously, which is much less common. I'm not sure how buildup will be handled in either design. Both designs will probably require down times as fresh fluid is cycled in. Come to think of it, steam generation will have to be based on an external fluid leeching heat off the inner chamber, because the fluid in the inner chamber will probably have to be still to avoid the formation of bubbles not triggered by neutron bombardment.