NationStates Jolt Archive

This will give you an idea of some of the ways I intend to RP the Sarzonian military and possible angles for my continued efforts to evolve as an RPer and develop Sarzonia as a NS country. This will be a more in-depth approach than the IMs in which I've briefly touched on certain themes that are going to present themselves in RPs.

Sarzonia's Military at a Glance

Army
The army started out being a fairly well-organised and trained unit in the very beginning under Chief Hal Luxton. However, tightening budgets and growing complacency led the Army to a long period of stagnation and eventual atrophy with a lack of ground combat experience being the largest culprit. Sarzonia's Department of Defence won a bidding war for the services of former Sanctaphraxian general Antonius Santius, and he came on board as a consultant to Luxton. Shortly after he started at the new military command complex in Saugerties (a suburb of Sarzonia's capital, Woodstock), he recommended several reforms in the army's training methods, in equipment, and in combat doctrine. However, Luxton ignored Santius's recommendations and his calls for reform fell on deaf ears in Parliament.

Those recommendations will come to light in a committee hearing in the Senate when the Inkanan Civil War ends after two committee members blame Santius for the army's poor performance in the war. When Santius points out his recommendations, Vice President for Defence John Newman will come to his defence and he will be largely exhonerated as the details of Santius's report to Luxton become public. Parliament will then belatedly approve major reforms to the Army in a budget that sharply increases defence spending. (I note that my budget is around 32 percent according to Thirdgeek. I've been RPing it to be vastly smaller than that... more around 11 percent. This will "increase" it to approximately 14.6 percent). More importantly, the Army will begin a much more stringent training programme.

Navy
After several succesful naval actions, the ISN has earned a reputation throughout the world for excellence and has made Sarzonia a naval superpower in some eyes. From the first Navy Chief, George Russert, through John Newman to Kathy Bunhall, the Navy has enjoyed the pick of the crop as far as military recruits are concerned. In fact, the joke about the army is that it's where rejected naval recruits go. In any case, the Navy has also benefitted from the success of the Portland Iron Works after its sales figures have boosted the Sarzonian economy. The Navy's success has earned the Navy Department a position of its own in the Cabinet, thus earning Navy Chief Bunhall a promotion to Vice President for Naval Operations.

Air Force
The Air Force has not gotten much notice in Sarzonia and is the smallest of the three branches, but it has the reputation in Sarzonian circles of being an elite fighting force. When called upon, Sarzonian pilots have enjoyed enormous success in several actions, using a combination of flying skills, strong tactics, and sheer determination to win several aerial battles. Chief Bill Lighton has coordinated well with Vice President Bunhall and has largely focused the Air Force's efforts on inland and coastal defence while aerial power projection has been largely the responsibility of the navy's aerial combat wing.

Naval Infantry (aka Marines)
Parliament is currently in discussions to separate the Marines into its own branch of the military and elevate the Deputy Chief in charge of that branch to Chief status. The move would allow for an increased budget and greater coordination between the Marines and the Army. Operationally, the Chief would still report to the Navy, but instead of having to report to Chief for Naval Administration Geoff Hendersen, the Chief for Marines would report directly to Vice President Kathy Bunhall. [OOC: Use of the name Naval Infantry inspired by Romandeos.]

Blue Cobras (special forces)
This 7,500 strong unit is specially trained on various tasks used to disrupt enemy infrastructure. In particular, severing power and telephone lines, attacking and eliminating supply convoys, and destroying bridges and highways. Colonel David Quinn has been nominated for the position of Blue Cobras Chief and his nomination is currently up for discussion in the House of Delegates.

Once the Senate hearings have concluded, Parliament will pass a bill calling for more "parity" in spending with the Army being the biggest beneficiary. However, the army's size will decrease as it strives to focus on being a well-trained, professional unit rather than a large, poorly-trained operation. The Air Force will receive a boost in appropriations, while the Navy will begin to make cutbacks in ship construction and will take some older ships off the Ready Reserve.

Constructive feedback on this profile is encouraged.

*bump*

Looks pretty good to me.

Btw, don't you have Marines?

*bump*

I'm going to put a TAG on this because it's potentially useful.

Your army should have special-forces. When you go for international peacekeeping missions your going to want to have special-forces.

I have Marines, but as a subset of the Navy and the Army. The leader of the Marines would be called a Deputy Chief for Naval Amphibious Operations (or commonly, Deputy Chief for Marines).

I also wanted to focus on the three major branches of the military instead of going into the Marines or the Space Force (which I really haven't used very much).

I have Marines, but as a subset of the Navy and the Army. The leader of the Marines would be called a Deputy Chief for Naval Amphibious Operations (or commonly, Deputy Chief for Marines).

I also wanted to focus on the three major branches of the military instead of going into the Marines or the Space Force (which I really haven't used very much).

Okay, thanks. I was just curious. In RB, the Marines have their own branch.

Okay, thanks. I was just curious. In RB, the Marines have their own branch.

In the Kingdom of Romandeos, the Marines are officially known as Naval Infantry, but some people still call them Marines.

By the by, Sarzonia. Nice work, but I do agree with RB that you should have a Special Forces unit of some sort. Heck, make some Marine Raider Battalions or something of that sort. Units like that are well worth the high cost.

Okay, thanks. I was just curious. In RB, the Marines have their own branch.Adding the Marines as a separate branch is going to be part of the reform programme for the Sarzonian military.

I have special forces, but they're considered a subset of the army. That may also change to their own branch.

Your army should have special-forces. When you go for international peacekeeping missions your going to want to have special-forces.

You should definitely have some special forces. But don't do what other large nations do, and suddenly have 500,000 special forces troops. My nation has an army of about 9 million, of whom about 1,500,000 are combat troops. My special forces branch consists of 1,000 troops. For me to have any more, and for any nation to have more than 10,000, would be wholly unrealistic considering the costs of training and equipping special forces troops.

Looks great to me Sar.

One thing I've noticed here at NS is that people seem to favor one branch of their military. AMF obviously favors his Sentinels, his infantry, I seem to favor my Infantry/Naval forces due to my nations background. Others seem to concentrate almost solely on their air/grav forces. This seems to limit alot of their possibilities in roleplaying an extended conflict.

Let's take me, for example. My Reavers are modernised 'vikings' for lack of a better term. They're sailors and seamen first and foremost. My naval capacities are probably the largest in the world, and I use my amphibious landings as my main hamerstrike against a nation. I can visualize my transports sliding onto the beaches and my soldiers boiling out to swarm over the land. It works for me.

But what then? What about when my men get inland? I can do it, but as I've concentrated on my naval landings and coop capacities, I've neglected to develop my air power. It's there, and it's state of the art, but I, the player, draw a blank when trying to illustrate the little things.

It's not because I'm not good at it, it's because I neglected my air forces to concentrate on writing about the landings and sea battles. That's a problem, for me. I try to work more of my air power into my writing, now, but it comes hard. Usually I use my air power as a 'roving' arm of my power, while keeping the focus on my naval capabilities. I wish it wasn't that way, but until I get the 'groove' of my winged warriors, I'll keep doing it.

Don't let that happen to you. I would suggest favoring a balanced military. Even if one arm os much stronger than the others, don't neglect any of them.

/ramble

Pantera

Thanks Pantera. I'm guilty of doing the same thing you've talked about with respect to my Navy. I've spent so much time developing my naval RP skills that my army RPing has been limited. I decided for the sake of realism to paint my army as being inexperienced and poorly trained. I have a small air force, but I've done well enough in aerial combat RPing that I cast the Air Force as a selective, elite unit.

When I started on NationStates, I wanted to have my military be a well-balanced unit capable of doing all three areas at least nominally well, with a slight preference for the Navy. I didn't count on doing nearly as well with naval RPs as I have done, but once that started happening, I ran with it. I hope to have my army evolve into a smallish, but professional fighting force, maintain my air force as being smallish and elite, and not rely so much on my Navy to do all the heavy lifting.

*added Marines and Special Ops info*

[OOC: I hope Romandeos doesn't mind my using his name for Marines as mine. I love that name.]

OOC: Happy to be of service, and I don't mind at all just so long as you don't mind me modeling my own Military Profile off of this. ;)

OOC: Happy to be of service, and I don't mind at all just so long as you don't mind me modeling my own Military Profile off of this. ;)Hey, one good turn deserves another. ;)

Hey, one good turn deserves another. ;)

My friend, you are truly a person of honor.

Here's another interesting little note about my own Armed Forces. Naval Infantry serve two main roles.

1) They act as Marines, performing amphibious landings and the like, generally doing things one would expect from Marines.

2) They can also act as Rangers, operating in company-sized detatchments, performing surgical raids behind enemy lines and the like.

Despite this, I will be making a dedicated Special Forces unit very soon.

OOC: While we're at it, Sarzonia, do you want to build a new shipyard for the Portland Iron Works in Romandeosian territory like we discussed a while back?

OOC: While we're at it, Sarzonia, do you want to build a new shipyard for the Portland Iron Works in Romandeosian territory like we discussed a while back?Sure, I'd love to!

Sure, I'd love to!

Excellent! Do you want to connect over MSN next time we get the chance to and work out the necessary details?

~Romandeos.

OOC: Sure. I'll try to get on MSN tonight.

*bump* for more feedback

Not bad at all. I've seen your navy, and if I weren't your ally and planning a war against you, that particular branch of your military would make me nervous. However, I think that's all that would make me nervous, you've admitted to giving yourself a massive achiles heel that you've had to compensate for with an excellent navy.

What you need to aim for right now is to make it so that losing a significant portion of your navy isn't a death blow, because as it stands if I, or anybody else with the capability, breaks your navy's back, it's all over for you. And just my own personal advice, don't shrink your armed forces too much in an effort to give the impression of professionalism, in NS it's possible to have a fair-size and elite fighting force.

Thanks for the feedback SS. I don't think I'd actually *shrink* the rest of my military per se (though initially, the army would likely get smaller). I'd just shoot for parity by not growing the navy at the expense of the other branches. I think once I get some ground combat RPs under my belt and I start RPing the reforms I'm intending, the rest of the military will start to catch up to the navy.

Thanks for the comments about my navy. I appreciate them very much.

Thanks for the feedback SS. I don't think I'd actually *shrink* the rest of my military per se (though initially, the army would likely get smaller). I'd just shoot for parity by not growing the navy at the expense of the other branches. I think once I get some ground combat RPs under my belt and I start RPing the reforms I'm intending, the rest of the military will start to catch up to the navy.

Thanks for the comments about my navy. I appreciate them very much.

I see some bad weather around my hometown so far, Sarzonia, but it looks like it could calm down in a few hours. If it does, I would really like to talk to you on MSN, because not only do I want to discuss a new PIW shipyard in my country, but I also think I can help you get some ground RP experiences.

~ Romandeos.

I just ended up getting tired last night, but we can try again tonight. Hopefully, my computer and your weather will both cooperate. I'm more than willing to get that ground combat experience.

Looking good. I'd love to run a military excercise with you if I may, to help build up my own limited RP skills. I've put a lot of effort into my military and would love to be able to use them more often. A simulated coastal assault might be good idea. What do you think?

I just ended up getting tired last night, but we can try again tonight. Hopefully, my computer and your weather will both cooperate. I'm more than willing to get that ground combat experience.

My weather did not cooperate, so I'm just going to send a telegram to you soon.

Looking good. I'd love to run a military excercise with you if I may, to help build up my own limited RP skills. I've put a lot of effort into my military and would love to be able to use them more often. A simulated coastal assault might be good idea. What do you think?Sounds good to me.

I didn't realise you used to be in the Royal Navy?! Now I feel even better about getting orders from you at PIW. ;)

Sounds good to me.

I didn't realise you used to be in the Royal Navy?! Now I feel even better about getting orders from you at PIW. ;)

How did you know that? I don't remember telling you. For the record, I was in the French foreign legion, too.

I found it in a recent post you made (I think having to do with fellow Legionaires). I noticed your SN was familiar so I peeked.

I found it in a recent post you made (I think having to do with fellow Legionaires). I noticed your SN was familiar so I peeked.

Yeah, nice to know someone read it, I still havn't found any other Legionnaires. I know lots of old Navy people to chat to about old times but no other Legionnaires. Most people in this country think the Legions a joke.

Anyways, I was only a Steward in the RN, and spent most of my time serving drinks to Royal Marine officers.

I've talked to several former USN people, and one of them tells me he used to cut hair in the USN during Vietnam. He wishes he would have gone to the Air Force, but I digress.

I always had a fascination with the navy when I was a lad. That fascination returned from dormancy when I started RPing in this game last year.

I prefer land forces myself. Local weather around here has started to calm down. Do you still want to talk on MSN?

Perhaps tonight. I think I should be on then, depending on my DSL connection...

*bump*

Impressive indeed. I'm glad you're not my enemy :rolleyes: ...
Hve you thought about giving some numbers?

I put down some numbers in my factbook (the link is in my signature). I'm actually going to reduce the army somewhat until I've had a chance to RP it being successful (and by then my population should be somewhere in the 3 billion range).

Incorporated Sarzonian Air Force

The mission of the Incorporated Sarzonian Air Force (ISAF) is to provide aerial defence of the Sarzonian homeland, perform early warning and reconnaissance functions, and support the Navy with power projection and the Army with logistics and supply. As such, the ISAF is structured as more of a defensive unit than an attack-oriented force.

Flights (2-4 aircraft): The classification with the fewest planes in an Air Force, this can be anywhere from one or two aircraft to seemingly four aircraft or perhaps more. In general, this would most likely be equivalent either to an army's fire team or perhaps a section.

Squadrons (3-4 flights; usually around 12 planes): This classification is a very common one, and perhaps the most common one in an air force. For short range missions, you can send squadrons of mostly (if not completely) fighters or bombers, but on longer range missions, one of the flights will need to be devoted to air-to-air refueling, otherwise, you'll have to land your planes.

*15 squadrons attack/strike aircraft
*15 squadrons offensive support aircraft
*50 squadrons aerial defence
*25 squadrons early warning
*50 squadrons reconnaissance
*50 squadrons maritime patrol
*20 squadrons air-to-air refueling
*10 squadrons search and rescue
*25 squadrons transport helicopters
*10 squadrons long-range bombers
*10 squadrons air command

Wings (3-5 squadrons): These usually combine squadrons with different roles (such as a strike/attack aircraft squadron with a air support squadron). Sometimes, a group is organised by the type of aircraft involved (such as a reconnaissance group featuring five squadrons of recon aircraft). Modern air forces tend to be flexible about such matters, but they always take logistics into account!

Groups (3-5 wings): This is generally where you might want to RP more of a command structure beginning, as opposed to a large scale or small scale action involving a wing. You could also do the same at the group level. Wings often include a wide variety of aircraft squadrons and groups; this is probably equivalent to an army division.

Numbered Air Force (2-5 wings): Like the numbered fleets of the U.S. Navy, this is where offensive power projection is accounted for. You might put a First Air Force in your home country to serve as a homeland defence tool or you might put a Fourth Air Force in a colony or in a region of the world where you have vital interests. For instance, I might assign my Third Air Force to my base in Pacitalia to provide coverage of the Pacific.

Major Commands (2-5 Air Forces): Like the army groups or theatres (the Sarzonian name for an army group), this is the largest collection in the military command structure behind the Air Force itself. Your Generals or Air Marshalls would likely command this category. If I put a second Air Force in southern Haven because of my alliances there, I would likely have one of the two (Pacitalia or Haven) serve as the Major Command under an Air General.

Incorporated Sarzonian Air Force: This is the level where your minister or deputy minister devoted to leading the branch is located. For me, it would be Air Force Chief Bill Lighton, for the United States IRL, it would be the Air Force Secretary.

This post is in no way intended to be writ of any kind; it's essentially a mishmash of the USAF's organisation with the RAF's (British) structure. If anyone has any specific constructive feedback, I'm more than willing to hear it.

You seem to have left out a lot of small, subsidiary units - base staff and security, medical, police, logistics, surveillence, intelligence. I have organised my own air force into Groups - 10 combat (4 home defence, 6 operational), 2 Anti Missile Groups, a Strategic Attack group, a Space Group and a Support group, which copntains most of what I mentioned above. You can also decide which service has responsibilty for anti aircraft defences, space defences and offensive missile forces - usually the air force, but it doesn't have to be.

If you want to check out my new look airforce you'll find it at www.freewebs.com/colonyofollieland (you'll be glad to see that most of the equipment is Sarzonian built!)

[OOC: This is based very, very heavily on Isselmere's. If he doesn't mind, here's the latest version of the ISA that will come out of the reforms once I get them underway.]

Organisation, Incorporated Sarzonian Army

Infantry

1 fire team = 4 soldiers (4) Led by: Corporal
1 section = 2 fire teams (10) Led by: Master Sergeant
1 platoon = 3 sect./weapons (40) Led by: Lieutenant
1 company = 3 platoons/1 armd. (150) Led by: Capt.
1 regiment = 3 companies/armd. (750-1,000) Lieutenant Colonel
1 brigade = 3 regiment/1 armd. (4,000-5,000) Brigadier General
1 division = 3 brigades (15,000-25,000) Major General
1 corps = 3 divisions (50,000-100,000) Lieutenant General
1 army = 2 corps (150,000-250,000) General
1 theatre = 2 armies (350,000-750,000) Field General
1 front = 2 theatres (1 million-2 million) General Of The Armies

Artillery

1 battery 3-6 pieces (rocket artillery, field guns or self-propelled)
1 regiment 3-4 batteries (12-24 pieces)
1 brigade 3-4 regiments

Armour

1 platoon 2-4 vehicles
1 company 3-4 platoons (8-16 vehicles)
1 regiment 2-4 companies (20-64 vehicles)
1 brigade 3 armoured/1 infantry regiment

NOTE: I realise that most people use Army Group to denote two or more Armies, but I use Theatre. That quirk will remain. Also, much of this is based on the His Isselmerian-Nielander Majesty’s Army Organisation.

Army Weapons & Equipment
+1 million M-32 assault rifles (7.62/51 mm variant)
100,000 S-200 Quinn & Collins battle rifles
500,000 S-120 .40 calibre SMG

7,500 Z-34 ‘Bonham’ MBTs
1,500 Z-30 ‘Cheetah’ LSVs (light tank)
2,500 Z-35 ‘Landshark’ APCs
5,000 Z-36 'Groundhog' IFV variant
1,500 Z-37 ‘Raptor’ tracked amphibious vehicles
1,000 Z-39 'Pit Bull' Close-In Combat Vehicles (CICV) - being revised

Air Force Craft
2,500 SZ-20 ‘Valkyrie’ strike fighters
1,000 S-8 'Leapfrog' VSTOL close in support fighters
1,600 SZ-2 ‘Albatross’ air superiority fighters
1,000 S-12 'Skyshark' defensive fighter bombers
250 SZ-4 'Warbird' Long-Range Strategic Bomber
1,000 SZ-14 'Scorpion' multi-role attack helicopter
100 SZ-5 'Snarl' Electronics Warfare Aircraft
750 SZ-6 'Pegasus' Search and Rescue Helicopter
1,750 SZ-7 'Air Scout' Maritime Reconnaissance Craft
9,950 aircraft, not including most logistics craft.

Naval Vessels
3 Vigilant-class trimaran superdreadnought
1 Constitution-class trimaran superdreadnought
2 Europa-class trimaran superdreadnoughts (RSIN-designed)
1 Jimnam-class trimaran superdreadnought (RSIN-designed [named Sarzonia])
4 Independence-class trimaran pocket superdreadnoughts
7 Brandywine-class trimaran light dreadnoughts
20 Atlantic-class trimaran large battleships
50 Trinity-class battleships
20 Agamemnon-class arsenal ships
300 Oceania-class large escorts
25 Victory-class trimaran fleet carriers
50 Peligro-class amphibious assault ships
100 Normandy-class heavy combat assault ships
150 Monitor-class trimaran heavy cruisers
225 Commandant-class Trimaran guided missile cruisers
50 Monandnock-class trimaran light cruisers
550 Johnston-class AA destroyers
325 McDonough-class ASW frigates
150 Hastings-class strike frigates (Inkana-designed)
80 Wixted-class scout frigates
850 Seminole-class corvettes
70 Piranha-class missile boats
100 Ossippee-class special operations boats
75 Steadfast-class SSGN variants
50 Steadfast-class SSBN variants
250 Navarre-class SSNs
150 Bolash-class SSKs
250 Insurgent-class special operations submarines
50 Bulldog-class littoral land attack submarines
100 Pasteur-class hospital ships
200 Curie-class light medical vessels
100 Ryzner-class heavy transport ships (Inkana-designed)
100 Gabin-class roll-on/roll-off cargo transport
275 Smith-class multipurpose replenishment vessel
275 Flansburgh-class multipurpose replenishment vessel
375 General Marsden-class personnel transport
75 Aylesburgh-class submarine tender
5,458 ships including non-combatants
3,958 combatants

*bump*

*bump*

*bump*

*bump* for updates/revision to come

Looks good to me, but shouldn't ya put all your military stats in info on the first post, and bump it once your finished? Eh, just a question.

Anyway, I'm tagging this, and I definitly need to post mine due to so many rp's I'm in...geeze....work and posting = headache.

When I first created this, I wanted to give an overview of the doctrine rather than plot detailed numbers, but I got into the numbers later on when I decided to make this my clearinghouse for military info. Now that it's both a list of numbers and a profile per se, I'm probably going to end up using it as the basis for a whole new thread that combines the two more capably than this one does.

Besides, I have a whole slew of new designs that I'm now using in my military and I wanted to have the old numbers at my fingertips to make the changeover more coherent.

It looks very nice, but I noticed that you didn't list equipment and stuff for your Marines, nor any weaponry used, other than the rifle used in the Army. Anyway, it looks very good to me.

It looks very nice, but I noticed that you didn't list equipment and stuff for your Marines, nor any weaponry used, other than the rifle used in the Army. Anyway, it looks very good to me.I'm actually still finalising everything (I've got a standard sidearm to develop) and I'll list the weaponry once I've finished developing it all. Anything my Naval Infantry uses will be based off army or Blue Cobras requirements for greater ease in coordination and logistics.

Also, I've finally come upon a name I want to use for a new elite unit of my army that will be my answer for elite units like AMF's Sentinels, Pantera's Reavers, Doomingsland's Legionaires, or Generic Empire's Imperial Praetorians. I might go through the development of the Templars in the next thread or as a subset of my Army Reforms RP.

*Revisions made and edited into a previous post*

I'm actually still finalising everything (I've got a standard sidearm to develop) and I'll list the weaponry once I've finished developing it all. Anything my Naval Infantry uses will be based off army or Blue Cobras requirements for greater ease in coordination and logistics.

Also, I've finally come upon a name I want to use for a new elite unit of my army that will be my answer for elite units like AMF's Sentinels, Pantera's Reavers, Doomingsland's Legionaires, or Generic Empire's Imperial Praetorians. I might go through the development of the Templars in the next thread or as a subset of my Army Reforms RP.
I see. Perhaps I can be of assistance in the business with the sidearm. Please check the following link to see if my P17 can be of any use to you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440165

I see. Perhaps I can be of assistance in the business with the sidearm. Please check the following link to see if my P17 can be of any use to you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440165I'll take a look at it, but I'm most likely going to develop my own since I RP having laws that require the Sarzonian military to look to domestic companies first for their weapons designs. That doesn't mean I'll completely rule out buying foreign products, however.

*bump*