NationStates Jolt Archive

Before this war goes to massive nuclear blows, beyond the scope of what has already been seen in this war, the Empire will give one last shot of it's own to end this war of words before it turns into a war where millions die [OOC: Technically, millions have already died, but Makaar ignored the nuclear bombardment of his nation.]

Treaty of Cattia
Preamble:
As stated before my many nations the nation of Feline Catfish has the right to purchase, and produce, nuclear stockpiles, regardless of the opinions of others. It is to say, the construction and importation of NBC warheads was completely legal, and therefore deserves to stand. Consequently, it can be claimed that the blockading of Feline Catfish, and the subsequent naval building up near the shores of said nation was completely illegal.

Furthermore, as dictated by international law a nation cannot claim a full one hundred nautical miles of coastline, or more. However, it should be noted that neither Feline Catfish, nor the Second Empire of the Golden Throne, is in the United Nations, and therefore not bounded by international law. It is to say, the actions of Feline Catfish, although not necessarily agreeable to international cordiality, were legal within themselves.

However, since no side seems willing to negotiate a peace which would tip the scales of the end of the war against the subject of the treaty what can only be done now is to comprimise. If no comprimise is reached we can only fear that dozens of nations will either be wiped off the face of the Earth, or at least, severely damaged. And thus, the Treaty of Cattia is thrown upon your tables.

Article I: Concerning the Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons
It has been established, as by the preamble of the treaty, that the growth of the NBC stockpile inside Feline Catfish is completely legal, within and outside of United Nations International Law. As a direct consequence of this fact the sovereign nation of Feline Catfish is to be allowed whatever nuclear stockpile it wishes to have for it's own nation defense, without intervention from foreign nations. Therefore, according to this treaty, Feline Catfish shall hold its nuclear stockpile and expand it at will, without other parties intervening.

Article II: Concerning Territorial Waters
Because the act of expanding territorial waters had so perturbed this world this treaty shall push for the elimination of such a large streak of water, and instead, shall propose that the national waters of Feline Catfish will remain nation waters for a full one hundred nautical miles in times of peace.

However, there should be no second or third party military deployments within two hundred nautical miles. If so, Feline Catfish would have the right to deploy and respond with weapons if need be.

This treaty also outlines that nations with fleets currently deployed in the area within two hundred nautical miles should fully demilitirize the region, and withdraw their fleets without further adeu.

Article III: Concerning the Active Stance of All Nations Who Sign This Treaty:
All who sign this treaty agree to a pact of non-agression with Feline Catfish. This Non-agression pact would call for the following:

Clause A: All territorial claims of Feline Catfish, if fully legal without infringing on the sovereignty of other nations, should be immediately recognized by said nations.

Claus B: A direct belligerent attack on Feline Catfish shall be terms to break the treaty of non-agression, which in turn calls for a direct retaliatory response by those allied to Feline Catfish, and Feline Catfish itself.

Claus C: All signiatories of the treaty shall withdraw their fleets immediately.

Article IV: Military Retaliation In Case of Attack on Feline Catfish
The Second Empire of the Golden Throne (The Macabees) ensures its alliance with Feline Catfish, and according to this treaty, should any belligerent fleet steam within 200 nautical miles of Feline Catfish's shores it would call for a full military, and pre-emptive, attack on said fleet, but by the Macabees and by Feline Catfish. Other nations may also ask to add their name to this Fourth Article as a cooperative defense of Feline Catfish.

This treaty is flexible

--------------

[OOC: Open for discussion and the addition of new articles if need be.]

"This is acceptable, so long as the clause about territorial waters is removed. 50 nautical miles is not enough to ensure that we can respond to threats with nuclear weapons out of range of FC itself, whereas we have no interest in denying access to warships within 200nm. We want our 100nm, and this is not negotiable."

King George III
Populist Monarch of Feline Catfish

We also support this treaty, although we do believe that Feline Catfish should have it's waters extended to 100 nautical miles.

"This is acceptable, so long as the clause about territorial waters is removed. 50 nautical miles is not enough to ensure that we can respond to threats with nuclear weapons out of range of FC itself, whereas we have no interest in denying access to warships within 200nm. We want our 100nm, and this is not negotiable."

King George III
Populist Monarch of Feline Catfish

[OOC: Ooops, actually I forgot another clause with is related to that.]

[OOC: Done.]

Statement of the Grand Risban Imperium

We will only recognize Feline Catfish's claims to fifty nautical miles, no more.
If that is met, despite our involvement already being withdrawn ((Because someONE had to go and bribe/blackmail me :p )), we shall support this treaty. Feline Catfish should not be allowed to extend their waters any farther just so that they can use nuclear weapons. If they are so worried about invading fleets and not wishing to harm their citizens with nuclear weapons, we suggest that they build a powerful navy of their own and develop non-nuclear weapons to respond to such threats.

-Emperor R. A. Scorpius-

ooc: read my edit that was ignored

Statement of the Grand Risban Imperium

We will only recognize Feline Catfish's claims to fifty nautical miles, no more.
If that is met, despite our involvement already being withdrawn ((Because someONE had to go and bribe/blackmail me :p )), we shall support this treaty. Feline Catfish should not be allowed to extend their waters any farther just so that they can use nuclear weapons. If they are so worried about invading fleets and not wishing to harm their citizens with nuclear weapons, we suggest that they build a powerful navy of their own and develop non-nuclear weapons to respond to such threats.

-Emperor R. A. Scorpius-

[OOC: Really, if you have already withdrawn I can't aquiesce to your suggestions because in reality you have no military power to persuade Feline Catfish. If it was up to me I would make it 50..but I'm trying to end this war before it starts, not create another quagmire.]

about the nautical miles thing;
in times of peace, FC gets 50nm, no more no less and the right to question all inside 200nm.
in times of war, FC gets 150nm, the right to question everyone within 300nm, and the right to unprovokedly attack enemies within 200nm.

in times of war i find it acceptable for a nation to have 'enter and die' it is perfectly reasonable and safe for everyone, provided the attackers arent stupid

[OOC: Really, if you have already withdrawn I can't aquiesce to your suggestions because in reality you have no military power to persuade Feline Catfish. If it was up to me I would make it 50..but I'm trying to end this war before it starts, not create another quagmire.]


((OOC: I never said I was using military power to persuade FC. Throughout this whole conflict, I never have. I've been using economic and diplomatic pressures. Heh. I said that I wouldn't recognize his claim to more than 50 nautical miles, meaning that commercial and private vessels aren't going to change course just because he decides he wants more water.))

about the nautical miles thing;
in times of peace, FC gets 50nm, no more no less and the right to question all inside 200nm.
in times of war, FC gets 150nm, the right to question everyone within 300nm, and the right to unprovokedly attack enemies within 200nm.

in times of war i find it acceptable for a nation to have 'enter and die' it is perfectly reasonable and safe for everyone, provided the attackers arent stupid

[OOC: I'll see what FC has to say about this.]

Although we support your suggestions and really agree with them we are not in a position to comprimise against Feline Catfish. Instead, we are attempting to weave a compromise which still beneftis Felince Catfish, yet is also a peace with honor for those in the anti-FC alliance.

ooc: just like they said in WWII in that tiny pocket "nuts" http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=415748

ooc: just like they said in WWII in that tiny pocket "nuts" http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=415748

[OOC: Hehe, that was in Bastogne. And I'll deal with that single nuclear weapon myself.]

I agree with Myrodor. To compromise with Macabee, give thm a permanent 75nm.

Hogsweat's Medium To Protecting FC's Waters
Clause I
In times of peace, Feline Catfish shall own up to 75 nautical miles out from their coastland. In addition a small Hogsweatian Naval Task Force shall be stationed nearby to act as a deterent and a retaliatory ability for any invaders.
Clause II
If war is declared on Feline Catfish or Feline Catfish declares war then Feline Catfish's claim of 75 Nautical Miles is extended up to 150 nautical miles up until armistice is signed or the enemy has no ability to wage a naval war. If Feline Catfish is attacked by an enemy then the Hogsweatian Naval Task Force will respond in defense of Feline Catfish.
Clause III
Feline Catfish should not use war as an excuse for furtherment of their national waterline border.
Clause IV
Hogsweatian Naval Task Force Vessels must not attack any vessel unless they are openly hostile to the Hogsweatian Force or anything belonging to Feline Catfish.

No more edits, its fine, signed.

No more edits, its fine, signed.

ooc: you can't just say that

Hogsweat's Medium To Protecting FC's Waters
Clause I
In times of peace, Feline Catfish shall own up to 75 nautical miles out from their coastland. In addition a small Hogsweatian Naval Task Force shall be stationed nearby to act as a deterent and a retaliatory ability for any invaders.
Clause II
If war is declared on Feline Catfish or Feline Catfish declares war then Feline Catfish's claim of 75 Nautical Miles is extended up to 150 nautical miles up until armistice is signed or the enemy has no ability to wage a naval war. If Feline Catfish is attacked by an enemy then the Hogsweatian Naval Task Force will respond in defense of Feline Catfish.
Clause III
Feline Catfish should not use war as an excuse for furtherment of their national waterline border.
Clause IV
Hogsweatian Naval Task Force Vessels must not attack any vessel unless they are openly hostile to the Hogsweatian Force or anything belonging to Feline Catfish.


The Grand Imperium of Risban will agree to Hogsweat's proposed terms.

-Scorpius

If everyone agrees with Hogsweats terms I will make the necessary changes in the overall treaty, including adding a new article outlining Hogsweat's defense policies.

ooc: you can't just say that

I just did...

The Grand Imperium of Risban will agree to Hogsweat's proposed terms.

-Scorpius

then we will sign this this treaty "let it be said let it be done"

I just did...

ooc: ignored due to how the fact that you don't own call to power

i think everyone would benefit from larger zones around that, that allow to question anyone in peace and incapacitate but not kill anyone in war.
breach of these should remove all international support from FC.
if anyone with less than play nice intentions breaches these, full international conflict can and will be provoked. to make sure they think twice, i propose allowing involvement from other time periods in event of treaty breach.
the dogpile will get a whole lot bigger for the next agressor that way. in fear of almost every other nation combined, armies should stay at home and hopefully war will be avoided.

ooc: ignored due to how the fact that you don't own call to power

Dude, go read a few stickies, I said I was signing the treaty, now unless you somehow want to explain to me that the Empire of Dumpsterdam and your nation are one and the same please butt out of my business okay, I've had enough of your kind for one night, thanks.

I support these changes by Hogsweat.

Dude, go read a few stickies, I said I was signing the treaty, now unless you somehow want to explain to me that the Empire of Dumpsterdam and your nation are one and the same please butt out of my business okay, I've had enough of your kind for one night, thanks.

ooc: wtf? read what you posted remember edits don't count that was what I did when I found out catfish would not agree to the treaty

Green Sun will sign Hogsweat's version if it is edited that Feline Catfish will not test any nuclear weapons on their own or outside of their waters. In exchange, Green Sun will allow them to test in our biodomes, however testing will not be necessary as they can just get the data from a nation that has already tested them on the water. Green Sun wants to ensure the safety and helth of its Earth-living citizens and the safety of the planet. This is for Feline Catfish and Earth's safety.

Green Sun acknowleges their right to nuclear weapons, but we will continue to urge them to find alternative missiles.

ooc: with feline catfish gone (maybe forever) I think I won

ooc: with feline catfish gone (maybe forever) I think I won

[OOC: Did FC leave NS?]

Feline Catish Situation Diplomacy Proposal

Clause I
In times of peace FC will have 75 nm of territory that he can treat as he would his soil. he can question any vessel or aircraft within 200nm.
Clause II
In times of war FC will have 150 nm of territory that he can treat as he would his soil. he can take non-lethal action against anyone within 250nm, and attack with intent to kill anyone within the 150 nm.
Clause III
If FC starts the conflict, he gets the rights of clause II but the area of clause I. This is to prevent him from starting needless war for area.
Clause IV
International(and possibly intertemporal) forces can come down like a ton of bricks on the nation or nations that take WMD action against a peaceful party, or if FC attacks in peace time within 200nm but not within 75nm.

this proposal takes all views into account, keeping nations happy whilst giving FC the area he needs when he needs it. any breach of this will be a deeply regrettable move.

OOC: He was warned and told repeatedly he doesn't have the manpower or tech for nukes. He should have seen this coming and announced that he was ditching the nukes idea. Shoulda read the stickies...

OOC: He was warned and told repeatedly he doesn't have the manpower or tech for nukes. He should have seen this coming and announced that he was ditching the nukes idea. Shoulda read the stickies...


[OOC: I didn't know nuclear missiles were manned. *rolls eyes* Moreover, he didn't build them, he bought them, which is totally different.]

[OOC: Did FC leave NS?]

ooc: nuke him just in case he comes back in sixty days to give us all a big headache

ooc: so he did leave?!?

[OOC: I didn't know nuclear missiles were manned. *rolls eyes* Moreover, he didn't build them, he bought them, which is totally different.]
OOC: In that case he just blew his entire budget.

OOC: In that case he just blew his entire budget.

[OOC: Of course, purchasing 2,000 missiles blows his entire budget. Saying each missile would cost around ten million - and I'm sure he bought them for less - they would cost him a full 20,000,000,000 or 20 billion USD....well within his budget if he plays his cards right (meaning, decreasing civilian budgets..which he probably has done regardless of what Thirdgeek says).]

ooc: so he did leave?!?

ooc: we just don't know

OOC: I know how to prevent the territorial waters incident solved: Through the UN. Increase the milles to 100 to make people happier. More fishing!

call to power I suggest you stop being an arse and insulting FC when he's not around or I will report you. I like this board clean, thanks. None of this insulting people OOC.

call to power I suggest you stop being an arse and insulting FC when he's not around or I will report you. I like this board clean, thanks. None of this insulting people OOC.

ooc: ??? example please

ooc: nuke him just in case he comes back in sixty days to give us all a big headache
OOC: I'd be insulted.

I can see you edited your post.. just calm it.

Hogsweats clauses are good... but if i may... i'd like to add one more:

Clause V:
If any of these previously stated clauses are broken in someway by FC, a decision by the nations who sign this treaty about the exact punishment. In general, the amount of nautical miles will be deducted. Again, the amount will be decided by the meeting with all the nations signing this treaty.




is that a good add?

yes

I'll make the necessary edits when FC comes on, if he ever does, and agrees to them.

ooc: think I will go buy some nukes now!

ooc: think I will go buy some nukes now!

[OOC: Hell, I'll sell them to you.]

[OOC: Hell, I'll sell them to you.]

ooc: now about my naval borders.......

(Partially IC Partially OOC)
Is FC really threatened by the world that they need 100miles?

Oh Dead rubber never mind.

"The terms of 100 nautical miles is unacceptable. Feline Catfish should be subject to the same standard for national territorial waters as every other country is expected to adhere to. Unless that clause is amended, Sarzonia will NOT sign this treaty."

Josh Williams
Speaker of the House of Delegates
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

Vastiva humbly points out that Feline Catfish has already stated it is using those waters for nuclear testing. It would be prudent for the OMP and other nations to - at the very least - recognize the area as a "no-sail zone" for their own safety. In this manner, everyone would "get" what they want, there would be no misunderstandings, and no vessels would be lost to... testing.

Certainly this is a compromise worth considering?

Nivia Alix von Cohen
Chief Herald
Humble Servant of His Magnificence, the Sultan of Vastiva

OOC: I suggested to him to make a new account and not do what he did. That's what I did.

And Call to Power, I'll sell you Archer Missiles instead of nukes. Explosive-packed and with napalm!

"Out of the question. Feline Catfish is more than welcome to use its own territorial waters for 'nuclear testing' or international waters; however, it may not impede the shipping rights of other countries in territory it can not lawfully claim."

Kathy Bunhall
Vice President for Naval Operations
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

OOC: I suggested to him to make a new account and not do what he did. That's what I did.

And Call to Power, I'll sell you Archer Missiles instead of nukes. Explosive-packed and with napalm!

ooc: what is the range and what is the damage done to the armour of a carrier (I was going to ask that but the thread is buying only)

We would point out, there has been no shipping in those waters, at least as far back as our satellite records go, except to and from Feline Catfish. There are no shipping lanes there, and nothing of naval importance.

Defending water in such a matter makes for a most excellent quagmire, would you not think?

Nivia Alix von Cohen
Chief Herald
Humble Servant of His Magnificence, the Sultan of Vastiva

"More news has come from the Coalition Comrade."

The secretary handed it to Mikhalkov who then walked over to the window reading the telegram translated into Krob. when he looked at the paper he also realised that a worn patch of carpet had appeared,
"Must be where i walk!" he mused, a small smile crept onto his scarred face, he found it funny when he realised things unbeknown to him before.
But it quickly faded as the news made it towards his brain.

The secretary was still stood by the door, Mikhalkov ushered her to him.

"Ta ta ta take this down."

TO- FCSDP SUBJECT- NAT
After reading the proposed treaty we have considered the following.
1. We will sign the treaty on the following grounds.
2. we will keep the Red Northern Fleet on high priority.
3. We will accept the 100nm claim to FC waters.
4. we will accept the ownership of the WMDs although against WMDs we accpet the legal ownership and use of them.
5. considering the threat we ask if FC would like a Krob embassy and SubPen built in or near FC territory- they do not have to accept this.
6. the Krob Navy hold no responsibility if action is taken and the consequences of their actions. eg. pre-emtive nuclear strike on nations to protect FC and coalition forces.
7. the same naval task force as i stated earlier in another Telegram shall be used to protect FC , although it may be due to changes and clause 5.
8. not accpeting clause 5 of this proposed amendment then the other clauses referring to clause 5 are cnsidered null and void.

AMENDMENTS:

following the Hogsweat amendments to the treaty, aswell as our own.

clause 1 : The nation herby known as the Socialist Federation Kroblexskij and its native term Kommunistika Federatsiya Kroblekski' shall have all control over its own naval and military forces, IF stationed in FC territory water or land, considering the fact if they allow them to be stationed there. changeable due to clause 5

clause 2 If allowed to place military forces in FC territory. they will be allowed within a set distance from fc land, FC may set the limit and it may be due to change only by FC. changeable due to clause 5

We hope the Nation of FC and the coalition will accept or acknowledge this statement.

"Get me a Rodina, this is getting to my head."
The secretary frowned, she and many others knew why the Premier wasn't feeling well and it wasn't the stress. but she smiled and pleasently got him another one.
" I mean how can the whole world focus on one little nation so much? what has it to offer that is so great?"
"Nobody knew me!" his contorted gnarled face swished towards the door and the secretary.
She didnt know whether to answer of shut up, she made a small uncomfortable smile.
"I showed them, i rose up to become the bearer of the Hammer and Sickle.
and soon the Trident."
"soon they will know, or won't they? they'll never see what hit them!"

"Out of the question. Feline Catfish is more than welcome to use its own territorial waters for 'nuclear testing' or international waters; however, it may not impede the shipping rights of other countries in territory it can not lawfully claim."

Kathy Bunhall
Vice President for Naval Operations
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

we the nation of Call to power also disagree why use the seas for testing when underground is much safer and cheaper

OOC: Firing an Archer at a carrier would be a waste. Two carriers would be something, but just one wouldn't be that much use. A Green Sun Archer can destroy one carrier and damage the other, perhaps knock off a few planes. Shoot it in the water and you can tip them both over (And do damage to any enemy subs lurking underneath)

OOC: Firing an Archer at a carrier would be a waste. Two carriers would be something, but just one wouldn't be that much use. A Green Sun Archer can destroy one carrier and damage the other, perhaps knock off a few planes. Shoot it in the water and you can tip them both over (And do damage to any enemy subs lurking underneath)

ooc: how much?

Buy 'em in the thread. Regular explosive is 15 mil the napalm one is 20 mil each. We recommend the 15 mil against incoming fleets and the napalm against any invading land force or long-range missile. It can cause atrocities, yes, but if you use it wisely you can scare the sh*t out of someone with one with minimal civilian casualties.

This Treay will be signed by Hataria

Empress Serena of The Imperial Republic of Hataria

ooc: with feline catfish gone (maybe forever) I think I won


OOC: Um...you DO realize that not everyone functions in the same time zone, let alone the same continent? :rolleyes:

Dude, just relax already, damn.....

We'll all be happy to let this blow over wiyhout a shot being fired

[OOC: Of course, purchasing 2,000 missiles blows his entire budget. Saying each missile would cost around ten million - and I'm sure he bought them for less - they would cost him a full 20,000,000,000 or 20 billion USD....well within his budget if he plays his cards right (meaning, decreasing civilian budgets..which he probably has done regardless of what Thirdgeek says).]
ooc: Most of them were given to me, so their points are moot. And why do people keep sying I've quit nationstates just because I dont reply for 17 hours? I have stuff to do during the day, ok?

"I will accept the treaty as is. The 200nm exclusion zone is unrequested and largely unimportant. We will compromise on nothing else. To nations such as Sarzonia, we ask you to point out which treaty we have broken as regards to limits on national waters."

KGIII

ooc: just like they said in WWII in that tiny pocket "nuts" http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=415748

*cough*appeasementneverworks*cough* I refuse to pay the Danegeld and aquiesce to FC's demands like the british at munich.

*cough*appeasementneverworks*cough* I refuse to pay the Danegeld and aquiesce to FC's demands like the british at munich.
ooc: What exactly have I demanded?

*cough*appeasementneverworks*cough* I refuse to pay the Danegeld and aquiesce to FC's demands like the british at munich.

"I'm sorry you feel like that. However, the comparison is out of context. Feline Catfish has not asked to annex another nation due to ideological and racial interests. Quite the opposite, the country has asked to allow a defense of itself, whether conventional or nuclear. That is within their sovereign rights."

ooc: What exactly have I demanded?

An unrealistic amount of territory, which will affect international shipping inm a negative manner, 100nm is unrealistic and unacceptable, that is my main issue, since most nations do not have territorial waters exceding 20 or 30nm, 50nm at the most.

An unrealistic amount of territory, which will affect international shipping inm a negative manner, 100nm is unrealistic and unacceptable, that is my main issue, since most nations do not have territorial waters exceding 20 or 30nm, 50nm at the most.

[OOC: This has been explained several times over. Nobody actually uses those waters for trade. Never, ever, and it will never host ships. It's just how this world works. ]

An unrealistic amount of territory, which will affect international shipping inm a negative manner, 100nm is unrealistic and unacceptable, that is my main issue, since most nations do not have territorial waters exceding 20 or 30nm, 50nm at the most.
ooc: Actually it wont affect shiping. My nation is hundreds of miles away from anything and no shipping goes through the affected area.