NationStates Jolt Archive

This thread is fully OOC, so the OOC tag isn't necessary or the tiny fonts.

National Socialism, fascism, communism, socialism. What do these have in common? Not much on first sight, but they're all horribly abused by every player. Not a single aspect has been left untouched of any of these political ways. In other words: cliched. And that's why Guffingford needs a chance to make this nation interesting again for RP. Even people like me get tired of haunting the same people over and over again, and no it's not I'm going to turn to the good guys. In fact, try to define good in NationStates and stick with it.

What's good and what's wrong? A nation as Guffingford or TMG - both extreme governments or extreme pro-civil rights nations like Praetonia, Sarzonia and such? You can judge it by their actions, but ICly no country can have a firm position on right and wrong. Is Guffingford turning soft or am I turning into a democracy? I don't really know. Up until now I only seen the aspect of evil in this game, which is a limited way of playing this game. Every time I destroyed a nation it was from the limited view of: I am right, you are wrong and quite possibly dead. In fact, I never even bothered to try out a thing called diplomacy. In the Glemte Hage situation I could have solved the situation without banning his nation ICly. Or the needless destruction of The Upper Congo. And if I rewrite my history, does all of that change? To be honest, and that's how I feel it, all of the RP would be a waste of time if its declared null.

The way my nation is going at the moment isn't really popular. Nazism still isn't a very popular type of nation, hence why fascism is generally regarded as the most right wing government in NS. For most players, nazism is a bridge too far. A touchy subject which is understandable. Still, I have the feeling this way excludes myself from potential fun types of RP. Does that mean I have to turn evil like AMF and company? No. Define evil in NationStates.

What will Guffingford become? Honestly, I have no idea. But I'm tired of the cliched ways. But being original also has its disadvantages, people don't know what you are, how to associate yourself with such a nation. When you see nazi or fascist you instantly know: that's a chap who is extreme as a nation, and also quite possibly as a player. I encountered this before when I fought Tihland who said that he'd ignore the whole fight (excellent RP) just because I was running a National Socialist nation. Being narrow-minded is one, but when you assume a nazi nation means you are a nazi in real life is going a bit too far. And that's one of the proconceptions it brings. Same with being a radical Islamic terror nation. I, playing as Sirens of Titan, somehow always encountered people having a very hostile attitude towards the nation both ICly and OOCly. And that's what annoys me. People cannot seperate IC from OOC. I am sorry to hear about the loss of life during the cowardly attack on the WTC buildings on 9/11 but is it truly necessary to tell it in the middle of an RP out of the blue? This is certainly not meant as an insult but in my opinion, call me paranoid if you want, but it's like you need to rememeber what a horrible people terrorists are, and islamoterror as a whole. Same thing with Tihland. When he told me he was going to ignore the whole thread because of my nazism, he also told me about a friend of him who went to visit a concentration camp. Lecturing me about the nazi crimes. I'm not a stupid person, and I know what terrorists do and what the nazis have done. I had to explain to him that 9 out of 10 fascist/nazi players aren't in real life and it took me 3 long telegrams explaining before he agreed his actions were a bit hasty. And even if I am a nazi or an extremist Muslim, does that make a lesser person, or a bad player when I write the way I do now?

This annoys me, and that's why I want to change my nation's direction. Since I can find myself in most types of RP and nation, making the change isn't difficult. It's a tough decision but somehow I think that the nation Guffingford is done. There's little more I can add to the spectrum of crimes against humanity, limiting political freedoms, killing babies, slaughtering minorities, racism and oppression. It gets repetive and here I have struck another point why this radical change is necessary for the survival of Guffingford's RP's and stories.

Repetition plagues NationStates these days. Killing is getting boring. I mean, I made a thread where I openly admit killing roughly 500 babies, only a few hours old. The reason is so laughable and ridiculous mentioning it would only put myself ashame. But anway, this is a perfect example of a cliched topic. Murder to get attention and it's not a major surprise it failed completely. Only 1 serious reply of condemnation. In Jan '04, only the most extreme nations dared to write such a thread, because that meant several nations were eager to kill you. And I know, size matters in this game. A young 2005 nation is reluctant to go against a massive 3.8 titan. But then again, when you create something original and interesting I'm sure you can draw in many people who are interested, provided it doesn't mean war or invasion when you disagree. The image of Guffingford is tainted ICly and if you think Guffingford is avoided by players because of my aggressive stance on just about anything being a good thing, then you're wrong. For example, when I attacked Skinny87 with ICBMs and killed 20,000 of his citizens I excluded myself ICly from any further RPs with him. And be honest, does any nation want to have anything to do with a genocidal madman? I don't think so. Same with the other nations I threatened/attacked. The Upper Congo is a good example. Two times I attacked his nation for no good reason, virtually banning him ICly. Even though some of his posts were a bit godmoddish, I disabled his RP abilities due to my love for sarin. Godular is the same story: I nuked him off modern tech. He didn't mind that because he was going future anyway, but he didn't want to, then his nation was blazed off the face of the earth.

To conclude this thread: my nation's government doesn't have a positive effect on my ICly and OOCly, and it needs to be changed. Above I have some reasons why I want to change it. What the change will be is unknown, even to me. Guess I have to figure it out when I'm bored at work. All my current RPs are still going on, unless somebody doesn't want to. Though I am seriously considering to leave Wyattland's terror RP because of the, excuse me, piss poor roleplay quality. Not only did I spent almost 2 pages of OOC banter to convince someone why ignoring allies is unfair, now I'm tired of telling this person why posting your numbers is vital for a good roleplay. No more. The thing with Sarzonia and Theohuanacu (excellent writing) is going on, and when Tocrowkia answered a telegram of mine I'll gladly continue that one as well.

And I like to hear your opinion about these matters because frankly, NationStates' roleplaying enviroment is getting repetive as a whole. The occasional n00b war, the regular war here, the almost-massive conflict there, the 2003's here, the 2004's there and the 2005's caught in the middle. Players have left, players have died. NationStates must interesting again. When I look on the forum, most roleplays are either Earth based or you have to be part of a closed roleplay group. One one hand I understand it, to ban any n00bish elements, but on the other hand you've excluded yourself from the community as a whole, and you are a member of that community. Same with the earths. Dying off one by one, I am still not very happy with the E2 concept. Mind you, this is my opinion, not to insult or bash anyone. But the rule of E2 saying that you're E2 and nothing else kind of annoys me. For example, when E2 nation X announces his new racist constitution and adds an E2 tag in the title, that means only E2 nations are allowed to post there. Which is in my opinion absurd. Everybody playing is part of the NationStates world, and not an extra planet or dimension. One: the leeching of good players and two: making roleplays unaccessable for (new) players.

Show me your input!

An incredibly detailed and thought-provoking post Guff. We may not be on the best of terms IC'ly, but perhaps that ought to change for the better. I know what you mean by the roleplaying situation. Even though I've been here for a few months, I see nothing but a few small wars and mentions of large nations, alliances and conflicts like they were ghosts or spirits, never to be fully mentioned. Perhaps it's time these sort of things were re-instated; perhaps we should have one huge war, or get some more interesting RP's going - I mean, what about bthat great RP I keep hearing about; something about an alian acid that attacked earth - that sounded so cool, it would be great to resurrect it.

Interesting series of points, though I think that a pro-anime terrorist faction with a nation as its main front that paintball as its national sport would be pretty original. Nobody else has imitated me yet....

I completely agree, nationstates is becoming far too divided. When i first tsarted rping everyone would get involved in anyones rp's becuase they were fun. The whole point about extreme governments is also correct, i mean even with terrorism on its own. When the HLF first started rping (it was my friend who controlled it then) he had no intention of being an islamic country but people assumed that as it was terrorism he had to be islamic. Too often people take stuff from rl into rp's. One example, way back when i was a rogue nation i rped weaponising AIDS. I had a coalition the size of jupiter down my throat and that wouldnt have been bad for all the "OOC: I went to an AIDS clinic and i wont let you spread this disease". I hope you find a new angle as some of this extreme stuff has been fun

I very generally agree...

To a point now we have a situation completely the opposite of what occured before the rise of the Evil nations really occured...

We have hundreds of 'Evil' nations and very few 'Good' nations per se...

This of course will come full circle again sometime in the future as it is bound to do...

Although, I do think we need some credable 'Good' big nations, whom are willing to fight for the younger 'Good' nations, we need balance...

OOC: You're quiet right Guffingford, I remember better days for International Incidences. Reading through its stuff lately, I have also too come to a point to realise how degrading it has become. I dont exactly roleplay here anymore thankfully, but I do sometimes read from time to time. I suppose most of it though, could be contributed to the influence of such individuals as Desisive Action, Automagfreek, Crimmond, Pantera etc. Not that im blaming the lack of sanity here on those people specifically, but I am saying that everyone wants to be the bad ass criminal nowadays. However, I would say probably also these days would also be the latest injection of N00B's, which seems to occur over specific periods or seasons which is to blame. I saw this same thing happening about six months ago, and later on when I clicked into the forum again I was surprised that for a time, International Incidences had cleaned up its act.

Still, I too remember the days of this forum when it was a cold war between the coalition of "Austar Union - Credonia", verses the coalition of "Holy Panooly - Huzen Hagen, and the terrorists..." Most definatly I would call that a shining moment in this forum's history. In the meantime, since the disbanding of Myself to the Nationstates forum, Credonia to God Knows What, and Everyone Else to their Own Ways, I would have to say that the overall quality has lessened to a point of rediculousness. Unless of course, my eye for good writings has become slightly more snobbish than before!

Really, what International Incidences does need is a group of individuals who are actually better authors than most, to come together to police what is Good and Evil. I think it was Einstien who said that "Every Action, Is Joint by An Opposite and Respective Reaction!" in his theory in relativity. In other words what Im saying is, that the forums at the moment are lacking a point of reference, or something to keep sanity in check. What people really need here, is some kind of a positive force to come along, to while keep the sanity and point of reference in International Incidences, and also to spark along a chain of events which could lead to something similar to what you and I had while you were still playing with Holy Panooly mainly. These are my thoughts anyway on what the forum needs. It needs the influence of something 'new and good', while still pushing conflict toward the evil side of Nationstates, so that its influence can go without unnotice. I hope this helps!

I agree with Austar Union on this. We need some good quality RP's to get II back to its former glory days and back on its feet.

So true. Out of interest, I decided to take a sample of what's on the front page of II:

1x Embassy Request Thread
1x Auction Thread
2x Open / Signup RPs
3x Reference Threads
3x Future Tech RPs
3x Closed RPs
3x Storefronts
4x Factbooks
5x OOC Threads

NS has dried up. It's all "world wars" every month or two that go to IGNOREfest, pointless fad-evil nations committing some pointless "evil" act or threads that are so small scale that they go to nothing. Oh, that and Earth threads.

Well then, taking Guff's post as a call to action, perhaps we should band together here and actually do something. We need to start a new RP with a quality theme and some good RP'ers to start off II again. Anyone got any ideas?

Hrrm. You know, what Praetonia said has given me an idea. Why not, those of us who find the level of common discourse rather primitive, attempt to construct a purely political RP? The premise is fairly simple; attempt to solve Problem X without use of military force or covert action. The rest is fair game: moral bloviating, economic warfare, and such.

Could be quite fun, especially for those of us who've invested substantive amounts of time developing internal political cultures.

When I look back at the acigoo with Egypstan fighting ViZion and vice versa, Holy Panooly and the unlimited sales of Biochemical, chemical and biological weapons condemned by everyone and being the first time such a massive sale took place and the terrorist insanity. I also recall that HP was the nation who started the trend of "new evil" on the forum, way back when Concordia was a an alliance to reckon with. Normally I'm not a nostalgious person but I'm quite unhappy with the fact that the older players and the newer ones as well keep looking back at those days. I agree, the RP was more interesing. But when the name Amerigo bubbles to the surface I tend to close the window.

Why is everybody so hellbent on trying to make a RP that matches that particular war? I have only read fragments of it back in Nov '03 on an internet cache of the site and I don't really remember what it was about. I know it involved Iesus Christi and his Reich being the pro-slavers and Amerigo's government collapsed during the conflict and became somewhat communist after that. But honestly, why is everybody going back to those days? They are gone and that's it. Why look backward. Why not look forward instead? Going back to those days only makes new players think: NS isn't what is used to be. I missed the glory days, what am I doing here? With everybody yammering about how great those days were nobody looks what tomorrow might bring. Be a little more optimistic, and stop using your knowledge of things long gone as a way to impress new players. Tell me, whats the fun in repeating the actions and wars of nations long gone or inactive?

I say we should stop being so damn nostalgic and look at what NationStates has to offer. NationStates is what you roleplay, and it can go every direction. I admit, I have no problem with remembering the good old days, Austar Union can confirm, but in NationStates it's happens far too often. It gives a wrong impression of the game, a wrong signal to new players. Give them a feeling where their actions matter, and don't keep going back to things that happened in January 2003 for heaven's sake. Those days are gone, and nobody can bring them back. Live with it and stop paying attention to find out what happened back then: think what you can do tomorrow or today for that matter.

NationStates needs to learn the meaning Carpe Diem and act upon it.

I wholeheartedly agree with Guff's last post. Let's stop reminiscing about the Amerigo Slave Wars and stop saying how great it was and nothing will ever match it. You know what? It's impossible to match it. Let's move on and create the next great war thread.

It also frustrates me when people start making their IC tensions into their little OOC vendettas against people they most likely will never see in person and often don't even know what they look like unless they've happened to submit a pic for the NS player pics thread. Yes, the countries of Guffingford and Sarzonia don't like each other. That doesn't mean the players can't agree on things OOCly.

What my nazi nation always promoted ICly was to create identity and unity. With the alliances still dominating the scene in II the situation is a WW1 like stalemate. No matter what you do, in 99% of your adventures as a member of the RWC, NWO or NATO you'll encounter the "I'll call alliance X, Y and Z into this". I remember how a certain player used to say: "Don't make me bring the APTO into this". I mean, alliances do contribute to the unity of the game, but in a negative way. When you see what happened after the Crucible debacle, it's still having its effects.

Scandavian States ignores me, IDF ignored me, Vastiva ignores me, Chelles ignores me and even several moderators ruled that we aren't allowed to post each others nation name in threads so that neither of our ego-searches would be messed up. Granzi ignored me, Tyrandis unignored me recently I believe, though I could be wrong. Hamptonshire still ignores me more or less.

The point how this happened doesn't matter, what matters is that I was backed by the RWC and NATO was on the other side. This created massive OOC tensions, flames and insults. Now, this is a very nasty side effect of such alliances. It's extremely difficult for new nations to become a player on the international stage when alliances dominate the happenings. A late '04 or an 05 can do squat against an RWC, simple because it lacks power. New nations do not have a binding factor the older powers have. For example, look at the RWC. 90% of the nations are 2003. I admit, how conservative can we get? Not a single 05 is member. Only the IADF has such new members in it and they, thanks me, are too intimidated to put up a fight. Novikov, I sent him several telegrams and he offered to open up a front in THL, just to be secure! If II would improve when alliances are disbanded, then I will be the first to declare the RWC-era history but only when NATO and the others agree on this principle of solidarity and give the new players a chance. I mean, the oldies are dying. The new generation is the future of NS, stop being so damn conservative and forget the past.

Ma-Tek Dec 2002: died recently
IDF May 2004: died recently
Granzi May(?) 2004: died recently
APTO: inactive, bordering on defunct
RWC: Many nations died of inactivity
NWO: inactive
NATO: inactive
IADF: asleep
Grunge-France May 2003: died a few months ago
Daikerta (unknown to me): died a few months ago
Glemte Hage: dead because of me

It sucks they are gone, but that's NS. People come and go that's way it is. You leave something with them but try to find a friendly player amidst the new players. Create an identity of NS for the new players, and the binding factor (unity) will follow automaticly.

I'm also thinking of completely changing my ways because of the disturbing amount of godmodding I witnessed the last few days. No need to mention names, but honestly, firing 400 hypermodern missiles at a fleet of 145 ships who retialliate with gunfire should result in a bit more ships down at the bottom than 6? But I'm drifting off subject again. The way my nation is going at the moment isn't really popular. Nazism still isn't a very popular type of nation, hence why fascism is generally regarded as the most right wing government in NS. For most players, nazism is a bridge too far. A touchy subject which is understandable. Still, I have the feeling this way excludes myself from potential fun types of RP. Does that mean I have to turn evil like AMF and company? No. Define evil in NationStates.

Guess that was refering to me. I wasnt trying to god mod, I explained what I wanted to do before you told me how fast the missiles are going but meh wtf ever.

-tagged-

Guess that was refering to me. I wasnt trying to god mod, I explained what I wanted to do before you told me how fast the missiles are going but meh wtf ever.Removed the part after I read your telegram. Also, tell us what you think about what I wrote. That'll give people a better impression on how to improve II.

A revival of II's glory COULD return im sure if i and other nations veteran to NS can come together and help give a kick to the War on Terror that im trying to get back on its feet.

I am very willing to make The British Empire a haven to terrorists, we must improve this, and fast.

A revival of II's glory COULD return im sure if i and other nations veteran to NS can come together and help give a kick to the War on Terror that im trying to get back on its feet.The war on terror, setting aside the few n00bs, was damn fun. How British Communists invaded me twice was just a great RP, and may be repeated any day of the week. If we could create an enviroment where new players are greeted in a friendly member, instead of being viewed with suspicion, II will improve.

Interesting series of points, though I think that a pro-anime terrorist faction with a nation as its main front that paintball as its national sport would be pretty original. Nobody else has imitated me yet....


My nation is pretty original to...I think...

The war on terror, setting aside the few n00bs, was damn fun. How British Communists invaded me twice was just a great RP, and may be repeated any day of the week. If we could create an enviroment where new players are greeted in a friendly member, instead of being viewed with suspicion, II will improve.Therein lies the problem. Even when I first started playing, if you were a newb and you created a thread that wasn't "OMFG! I n00k j00 all!!!!!111" with some potential, you had one or two players who were interested right off the bat who may not have been in your RP circle before that. You had your posts requesting that various players responded to that weren't just Euro working overtime to help people out. The problem is if you are a newb country or are perceived as such, it is VERY hard to get noticed unless you pull a Austo Hungary and declare war on AMF or you act like every other random n00b that launches a million gillion n00ks.

It's almost like it's going to take an act of AMF to get a promising newb noticed and that's unfortunate. Note this is not a slam on AMF; it's just that it seems as though NS is too much of a meritocracy at times and it's too hard to even get a bid to join the fraternity, let alone to get inducted.

Guff! You have inspired me! I am one of the few known goody two shoes! Today I will unite them all!

The war on terror, setting aside the few n00bs, was damn fun. How British Communists invaded me twice was just a great RP, and may be repeated any day of the week. If we could create an enviroment where new players are greeted in a friendly member, instead of being viewed with suspicion, II will improve.

What needs to happen then is the bigger, more veteran nations (those that were around during the original Credonian War on Terror 'era') need to start setting the precedent for all other nations to follow. We need to recognize and invite the newer nations with open arms into NS and most importantly II. That trend will spread, as do all others, and then and only then would things change for the better in II. I'll admit, despite all the bickering that went back and forth during the old WoT era, I loved it to pieces. I think it was great, and id honestly give anything to go back in time and have the opportunity to be in an RPing environment like that again. It was definitly worth the amount of time that I put into it.

Speaking of the old WoT era, its a known fact that I, personally RPed in a certain fashion that people didnt exactly like me for ( i had my reasons..but i'll admit my ooc actions were driven by sheer fear believe it or not...fear of being destroyed..i love my NS nation and id hate for it to be destroyed) but Im willing to let bygons be bygons and start anew, with a new fresh attitude towards RPing with terrorists and most importantly the real people behind the nations that I for so long hated with a passion. So with that, I offer a truce and a chance for a new beginning, for the better of NS-II (all the veterans gotta admit..life on NS wouldnt be the same if it werent for Credonia and those damn terrorists. Personally, and im not trying to sound arrogant or anything, but it is my honest belief that that war on terror that i started was one of the defining times of II. It brought life to II, it made things interesting when things were boring. I know i made an effort to make things pretty interesting when things were dry and slow and it certainly worked. It was great!)

I agree with Guff here. NS roleplaying has become so dull to me that I barely visit the forums anymore.

I say we get rid of massive alliances and the Earths.

Well what Credonia said is true. After the terrorist thing passed, II fell back to sleep again. When I look at the forums now I see my own horrible baby murder thread (only to get some attention, quit thinking it's destined to become some high quality RP). The only things that woke II up were all those dreadnaught hybrids and the original ones, and some would-be major wars that ended before any actual fighting because of loads of OOC bickering. If you want II to improve, then certain things have to happen.

1) Super alliances should be dissolved. In early days your region was your alliance, and there were pacts between regions. If players want to break the stalemate, then these monstrosities have got to go. I am prepared to stop with the RWC for the sake of RP.

2) The laid back attitude of II has changed dramaticly. Compared to mid 2004, the raise in RP threads being locked has skyrocketed. Not to mention the amount of godmodding. I mean, this is only a game. Your nation is little more than HTML, Perl and what you made of it. Good things happen, bad things happen. Live with it. When I wrote my baby murder thread, I have taken the following into account: people can declare war on me about this. Think about it. You are responsible for your OWN actions in this game. OOCly and ICly.

good post, tag

Modesty isn't something people suffer from here, is it? :p

I'm a regular member of another, non-RP forum where older members constantly bitch about how horribly bad everything has become, and how much better it was in the old days. Guess that that accomplishes? Yeah, that's right. It just pisses off the new members. It's wholly self-defeating.

If you really want to improve things around here, you could start by stopping huge nations stomping all over new nations just because they can.

Modesty isn't something people suffer from here, is it? :p

I'm a regular member of another, non-RP forum where older members constantly bitch about how horribly bad everything has become, and how much better it was in the old days. Guess that that accomplishes? Yeah, that's right. It just pisses off the new members. It's wholly self-defeating.

If you really want to improve things around here, you could start by stopping huge nations stomping all over new nations just because they can.


Ya here that Guff? Lol. ;)

Anyways, I'm here to help...I dont know what I can do though.