NationStates Jolt Archive

Valian Union Defense forces

[One army group consists of ten Armies under the command of one lieutenant general each. Valian chain of command breakdown is as follows.]

Squad - 9 to 10 soldiers. Typically commanded by a sergeant or staff sergeant, a squad or section is the smallest element in the Army structure, and its size is dependent on its function.

Platoon - 16 to 44 soldiers. A platoon is led by a lieutenant with an NCO as second in command, and consists of two to four squads or sections.

Company - 62 to 190 soldiers. Three to five platoons form a company, which is commanded by a captain with a first sergeant as the commander's principle NCO assistant.

Battalion - 300 to 1,000 soldiers. Four to six companies make up a battalion, which is normally commanded by a lieutenant colonel with a command sergeant major as principle NCO assistant. A battalion is capable of independent operations of limited duration and scope.

Brigade - 3,000 to 5,000 solders. A brigade headquarters commands the tactical operation of two to five organic or attached combat battalions. Normally commanded by a colonel with a command sergeant major as senior NCO, brigades are employed on independent or semi-independent operations. Armored cavalry, ranger and special forces units this size are categorized as regiments or groups.

Division - 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers. Usually consisting of three brigade-sized elements and commanded by a major general, divisions are numbered and assigned missions based on their structures. The division performs major tactical operations for the corps and can conduct sustained battles and engagements.

Corps - 20,000 to 45,000 soldiers. Two to five divisions constitute a corps, which is typically commanded by a lieutenant general.

Army - 250,000 + soldiers. Typically commanded by a lieutenant general or higher, an army combines 10 or more corps.

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Armed Forces#

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Army

The Valian Army is divided into four sections or Army groups.

[* not included in the command breakdown]
[# includes Army, Airforce, and River Patrol, but does not include Elite Presidential Swiss Guard or Special Operations units]

1st Army Group

Total man power (including support personnel)*: 2,500,000 Men

Significant Equipment:

[The below gun platforms/support vehicles constitute the Valian Defense Force's Artillery power]

12,600: M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzer's
10,450: ATMOS 2000 155MM Self Propelled Artillery System's
10,450: M270 MLRS Self-Propelled Loader/Launcher's (SPLL)
8,360: XM777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer's (LW155)
8,460: M198 Towed Howitzer's
8,450: M101A1 105mm Light Howitzer's
14,450: M981 Fire Support Team Vehicle's (FISTV)
14,840: M992A2 Fire Direction Center Vehicle's (FDCV)
12,340: Mobile Fire Support Systems [MFSS] 120mm Mortar
14,780: M992 FAASV Field Artillery Ammunition Supply Vehicles

[The vehicles below constitute the armored portion of the Valian Defense Force]

10,540: Leclerc MBT's
4,455: Reconnaissance tank Luchs/Spähpanzer Luchs
6,450: Schützenpanzer/Marder Armored infantry vehicle Marder 1 A3
8,560: Rapier Field Standard C (FSC) [AA missile system]
10,340: M1097A1 HMMWVs [troop/cargo transport variant]
9,680: M1114 HMMWVs
6,400: M1068A3 Standard Integrated Command Post System Carrier's (SICPS)
10,460: M1083 Standard Cargo Truck's [troop transport]
8,560: Mobile Electronic Warfare Support Systems (MEWSS)
8,980: Light Armored Vehicle-Command and Control (LAV-C2)

[The below aircraft constitute the Valian Army Air Corps]

2,200: UH-60L air assault helicopters
2,400: V-22 Osprey VSTOL transports
5,850: PAH-2 Tiger Attack Helicopters
5,230: CH-47 Chinook cargo Helicopters
4,300: C-141B Starlifters
1,200: AV-8B Harrier VTOL strike aircraft
1,230: C-27A Spartan cargo aircraft
5,340: F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet"
2,300: C-130E (AEH) [Air Hospital C-130 variant]
4,560: EC-130H [Electronic warfare C-130 variant]
5,670: C-130J cargo/troop transport aircraft
3,450: EC-130Q [Command and Control C-130 variant]
5,340: A-10 Thunderbolt's
4,560: C-17 Globemaster III
5,630: C-5A/B Galaxy's

[The vehicles below represent the support and logistical divisions (air cargo not included)]

3,460: XM104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge Systems H82510
5,740: Grizzly
5,670: M88A2 Heavy Recovery Vehicles [HERCULES]
5,340: Armored Combat Earthmovers
5,640: M2A0 Armored Medical Evacuation Vehicles
6,230: Armored Medical Treatment Vehicles
7,890: M548A3 Cargo Carriers
5,320: Light Armored Vehicle-Logistics (LAV-L)
7,940: Heavy Equipment Transporter Systems (HETS)
7,340: Palletized Load Systems (PLS)
8,340: Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks (HEMTT)

[The entire 1st army group is under the command of General Mohammed Aziz Ungutu.]

[b]2nd Army Group

Total man power (including support personnel)*: 2,500,000 Men

Significant Equipment:

[The below gun platforms/support vehicles constitute the Valian Defense Force's Artillery power]

12,600: M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzer's
10,450: ATMOS 2000 155MM Self Propelled Artillery System's
10,450: M270 MLRS Self-Propelled Loader/Launcher's (SPLL)
8,360: XM777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer's (LW155)
8,460: M198 Towed Howitzer's
8,450: M101A1 105mm Light Howitzer's
14,450: M981 Fire Support Team Vehicle's (FISTV)
14,840: M992A2 Fire Direction Center Vehicle's (FDCV)
12,340: Mobile Fire Support Systems [MFSS] 120mm Mortar
14,780: M992 FAASV Field Artillery Ammunition Supply Vehicles

[The vehicles below constitute the armored portion of the Valian Defense Force]

10,540: Leclerc MBT's
4,455: Reconnaissance tank Luchs/Spähpanzer Luchs
6,450: Schützenpanzer/Marder Armored infantry vehicle Marder 1 A3
8,560: Rapier Field Standard C (FSC) [AA missile system]
10,340: M1097A1 HMMWVs [troop/cargo transport variant]
9,680: M1114 HMMWVs
6,400: M1068A3 Standard Integrated Command Post System Carrier's (SICPS)
10,460: M1083 Standard Cargo Truck's [troop transport]
8,560: Mobile Electronic Warfare Support Systems (MEWSS)
8,980: Light Armored Vehicle-Command and Control (LAV-C2)

[The below aircraft constitute the Valian Army Air Corps]

2,200: UH-60L air assault helicopters
2,400: V-22 Osprey VSTOL transports
5,850: PAH-2 Tiger Attack Helicopters
5,230: CH-47 Chinook cargo Helicopters
4,300: C-141B Starlifters
1,200: AV-8B Harrier VTOL strike aircraft
1,230: C-27A Spartan cargo aircraft
5,340: F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet"
2,300: C-130E (AEH) [Air Hospital C-130 variant]
4,560: EC-130H [Electronic warfare C-130 variant]
5,670: C-130J cargo/troop transport aircraft
3,450: EC-130Q [Command and Control C-130 variant]
5,340: A-10 Thunderbolt's
4,560: C-17 Globemaster III
5,630: C-5A/B Galaxy's

[The vehicles below represent the support and logistical divisions (air cargo not included)]

3,460: XM104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge Systems H82510
5,740: Grizzly
5,670: M88A2 Heavy Recovery Vehicles [HERCULES]
5,340: Armored Combat Earthmovers
5,640: M2A0 Armored Medical Evacuation Vehicles
6,230: Armored Medical Treatment Vehicles
7,890: M548A3 Cargo Carriers
5,320: Light Armored Vehicle-Logistics (LAV-L)
7,940: Heavy Equipment Transporter Systems (HETS)
7,340: Palletized Load Systems (PLS)
8,340: Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks (HEMTT)

[The entire 2nd army group is under the command of General Omar Al Saheed Hussein.]

[b]3rd Army Group

Total man power (including support personnel)*: 2,500,000 Men

Significant Equipment:

[The below gun platforms/support vehicles constitute the Valian Defense Force's Artillery power]

12,600: M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzer's
10,450: ATMOS 2000 155MM Self Propelled Artillery System's
10,450: M270 MLRS Self-Propelled Loader/Launcher's (SPLL)
8,360: XM777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer's (LW155)
8,460: M198 Towed Howitzer's
8,450: M101A1 105mm Light Howitzer's
14,450: M981 Fire Support Team Vehicle's (FISTV)
14,840: M992A2 Fire Direction Center Vehicle's (FDCV)

[The vehicles below constitute the armored portion of the Valian Defense Force]

10,540: Leclerc MBT's
4,455: Reconnaissance tank Luchs/Spähpanzer Luchs
6,450: Schützenpanzer/Marder Armored infantry vehicle Marder 1 A3
7,560: Rapier Field Standard C (FSC) [AA missile system]
10,340: M1097A1 HMMWVs [troop/cargo transport]
10,680: M1114 HMMWVs
8,400: M1068A3 Standard Integrated Command Post System (SICPS) Carrier's
8,460: M1083 Standard Cargo Truck's [troop transport]

[The below aircraft constitute the Valian Union Army Air Corps]

3,850: PAH-2 Tiger Attack Helicopters
3,230: CH-47 Chinook cargo Helicopters
2,300: C-141B Starlifters
1,200: AV-8B Harrier VTOL strike aircraft
1,230: C-27A Spartan cargo aircraft
4,340: F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet"
2,300: C-130E (AEH) [Air Hospital C-130 variant]
4,560: EC-130H [Electronic warfare C-130 variant]
5,670: C-130J cargo/troop transport aircraft
3,450: EC-130Q [Command and Control C-130 variant]
4,340: A-10 Thunderbolt's

[The vehicles below represent the support and logistical divisions (air cargo not included)]

3,460: XM104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge System H82510
5,740: Grizzly
4,350: XM1070 Electronic Fighting Vehicles
5,670: M88A2 Heavy Recovery Vehicles [HERCULES]
4,340: Armored Combat Earthmovers
4,640: M2A0 Armored Medical Evacuation Vehicles
4,230: Armored Medical Treatment Vehicles
7,890: M548A3 Cargo Carriers
5,320: Light Armored Vehicle-Logistics (LAV-L)
7,940: Heavy Equipment Transporter Systems (HETS)
7,340: Palletized Load Systems (PLS)
8,340: Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks (HEMTT)

[The entire 3rd army group is under the command of General Fredrick von Wilhelm the IV.]

[b]4th Army Group

Total man power (including support personnel)*: 2,500,000 Men

Significant Equipment:

[The below gun platforms/support vehicles constitute the Valian Defense Force's Artillery power]

12,600: M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzer's
10,450: ATMOS 2000 155MM Self Propelled Artillery System's
10,450: M270 MLRS Self-Propelled Loader/Launcher's (SPLL)
8,360: XM777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer's (LW155)
8,460: M198 Towed Howitzer's
8,450: M101A1 105mm Light Howitzer's
14,450: M981 Fire Support Team Vehicle's (FISTV)
14,840: M992A2 Fire Direction Center Vehicle's (FDCV)
12,340: Mobile Fire Support Systems [MFSS] 120mm Mortar
14,780: M992 FAASV Field Artillery Ammunition Supply Vehicles

[The vehicles below constitute the armored portion of the Valian Defense Force]

10,540: Leclerc MBT's
4,455: Reconnaissance tank Luchs/Spähpanzer Luchs
6,450: Schützenpanzer/Marder Armored infantry vehicle Marder 1 A3
8,560: Rapier Field Standard C (FSC) [AA missile system]
10,340: M1097A1 HMMWVs [troop/cargo transport variant]
9,680: M1114 HMMWVs
6,400: M1068A3 Standard Integrated Command Post System Carrier's (SICPS)
10,460: M1083 Standard Cargo Truck's [troop transport]
8,560: Mobile Electronic Warfare Support Systems (MEWSS)
8,980: Light Armored Vehicle-Command and Control (LAV-C2)

[The below aircraft constitute the Valian Army Air Corps]

2,200: UH-60L air assault helicopters
2,400: V-22 Osprey VSTOL transports
5,850: PAH-2 Tiger Attack Helicopters
5,230: CH-47 Chinook cargo Helicopters
4,300: C-141B Starlifters
1,200: AV-8B Harrier VTOL strike aircraft
1,230: C-27A Spartan cargo aircraft
5,340: F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet"
2,300: C-130E (AEH) [Air Hospital C-130 variant]
4,560: EC-130H [Electronic warfare C-130 variant]
5,670: C-130J cargo/troop transport aircraft
3,450: EC-130Q [Command and Control C-130 variant]
5,340: A-10 Thunderbolt's
4,560: C-17 Globemaster III
5,630: C-5A/B Galaxy's

[The vehicles below represent the support and logistical divisions (air cargo not included)]

3,460: XM104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge Systems H82510
5,740: Grizzly
5,670: M88A2 Heavy Recovery Vehicles [HERCULES]
5,340: Armored Combat Earthmovers
5,640: M2A0 Armored Medical Evacuation Vehicles
6,230: Armored Medical Treatment Vehicles
7,890: M548A3 Cargo Carriers
5,320: Light Armored Vehicle-Logistics (LAV-L)
7,940: Heavy Equipment Transporter Systems (HETS)
7,340: Palletized Load Systems (PLS)
8,340: Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks (HEMTT)

[The entire 4th army group is under the command of General Enoch Waterhouse Root]

=======================================================

Presidential Swiss Guard

[The Presidential Swiss Guard are an elite mercenary unit that answer only to the president himself. Among their duties are constant protection of the president, and acting as secret police. In the event of wartime they will be mobilized just like any other branch of the Valian Defence force, but it is unlikely they would ever leave the capitol city.]

Total man power: 250,000

Small Arms:

155,000: Brugger+Thomet MP 9 submachine gun
45,000: SIG 552 Commando
10,000: RT-20 Antimateriel Sniper Rifle
15,000: HK MG 36
10,000: M-47 DRAGON Anti-Tank Guided Missile
15,000: CIS .50

All members of the Swiss guard carry a SIG-Sauer P250 sidearm.

Significant Equipment:

520: PAH-2 Tiger Attack helicopters
450: Leopard II Pz87 MBT's
5,450: Transportpanzer 1 Fuchs
4,650: AML-90
4,200: AS 565 Panther Assault transports
2,340: SUPER FRELON Troop Transports

=======================================================

[b]Valian Union Air Force (VUAF)


Total Bombers: 3,200

[The following is an equipment breakdown]

2,200: B-1B Lancer multi-role long range bombers. [The B-1B Lancer Fleet has the following upgrades: Cockpit Upgrade Program (CUP), Link-16, and the B-1 Radar Upgrade]
1,000: B-2 Spirit Stealth bombers

Total Fighters: 20,340

[The following is an equipment breakdown]
5,040: F-22 Raptors
5,300: F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet"
2,500: F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF)
2,500: S-37 Berkut air superiority fighters
5,000: Typhoon EF-2000 Eurofighter's
5,000: TORNADO GR4 Strike Aircraft

Total Other: 7,800

[The following is an equipment breakdown]

1,500: KC-10A Extender Tanker Aircraft
1,000: KC-135R Stratotankers
2,500: E-767 Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS)
100: E-4B National Airborne Operations Centers
900: Boeing 737 AEW
500: VUAF RC-135V/W RIVET JOINT surveillance aircraft
250: ES-3A Shadow
250: Raytheon E-Systems A310 AEW
800: Tornado GR1A

(more to come later/this is a work in progress!/comments, criticism appreciated!)

Note:This is taken directly from my Earth II World War forces listing, hence the commanders names. I would appreciate any comments, tips, or criticisms.

soooo, what exactly do you need help with?

soooo, what exactly do you need help with?

Really just want to know if anythings wrong.

well, the only thing I can see that I would address is the lack of support vehicles, but since I know a lot of nations do not add these into their numbers Im not sure if you care or not. Other than that I dont see anything horrific wrong with the numbers.,

well, the only thing I can see that I would address is the lack of support vehicles, but since I know a lot of nations do not add these into their numbers Im not sure if you care or not. Other than that I dont see anything horrific wrong with the numbers.,

Im still researching what would be the best candidates for the support vehicle roles, but they will be added sooner or later...

EDIT: It should also be noted that this is far from compleation...

OOC: Just some stuff I've noticed...

1) It seems that you're very infantry intensive. Is this intentional? Two-thousand MBTs for an army of ten million means that either you've got very few armored divisions or that you have very few MBTs per armored division, which given that a Juumanistran armored corps can provide half that number of tanks, I'd think that could cause problems.

2) Why the Centauros? Aren't tank destroyers very much a poor man's solution to lacking the industrial base to churn out tanks and other turreted vehicles? If you're looking for strategic mobility, wouldn't a mobile gun system be a better choice?

3) Given the immense size of your army, I assume that training rendered is rather...primitive, next to those given to soldiers in more modern armies? I'd also suspect that logistics would be an absolute nightmare under any circumstances and that deployments are especially nasty and are rather slow and clunky affairs. Given that, I'd assume that this is largely a homeland defense force, not an offensive army, or am I wrong?

3) Given the immense size of your army, I assume that training rendered is rather...primitive, next to those given to soldiers in more modern armies? I'd also suspect that logistics would be an absolute nightmare under any circumstances and that deployments are especially nasty and are rather slow and clunky affairs. Given that, I'd assume that this is largely a homeland defense force, not an offensive army, or am I wrong?

Yes it is a defence force... hence the big green title... And all of those figures arent just combat troops... only about 20 million are in an active combat role. And as for the poor training comment, that is patently false. I already stated that I have a more than adequate defense budget. But the armored vehicles I need to work on... Can you sugegst some appropriate numbers?

(nice to get some good feedback, ill address some of this other crapola tomorrow. keep the comments coming.)

2) Why the Centauros? Aren't tank destroyers very much a poor man's solution to lacking the industrial base to churn out tanks and other turreted vehicles? If you're looking for strategic mobility, wouldn't a mobile gun system be a better choice?

Last time I checked Centauros are turreted.

BUMP

Yes it is a defence force... hence the big green title... And all of those figures arent just combat troops... only about 20 million are in an active combat role. And as for the poor training comment, that is patently false. I already stated that I have a more than adequate defense budget. But the armored vehicles I need to work on... Can you sugegst some appropriate numbers?

(nice to get some good feedback, ill address some of this other crapola tomorrow. keep the comments coming.)

Well, the Israeli Defense Force have the word "defense force" in their name, but they've got extensive first strike capability within their arsenal. I should clarify what I was referring to. Do you plan for your army to be able to deploy substantive numbers of troops in an offensive capacity on relatively short notice or will they largely stay at home on garrison duty, protecting the homeland and never really deploying all that far from their home base? As, if you intended for it to be former, you're very ill-equipped to do that.

I never questioned your ability to maintain an army of this size. What I questioned was their training level. By ThirdGeek, your defense budget is ~$2,300 billion USD or, if my math is right, $57,500 dollars spent per man in your army. The US spends, last time I checked, ~$300,000 USD per man, while I spend ~$1,500,000 and some of the bigger NS states spend ~$2,000,000-$3,000,000. The fact is that relatively low spending per capita translates into a force that is going to be ill-equipped and ill-trained because procurement and training are expensive propositions. Given the sheer size of your force, I would think that the army rates just above a partisan militia in terms of unit cohesion and jointness. I'd also think that they'd suffer from a standard issue weapon known for its cheapness, probably the AK-47 since you're using in-essence human waves from the numbers presented. This doesn't make it so, as you haven't detailed force demeanor and training, so that's something to consider working on.

With regards to armored vehicle numbers, in all honesty there's no easy way to determine them. You could go back and construct what vehicles are in each type of unit and then just multiply from there, but that's really a labor of love. You could just come up with numbers off the top of your head, but that could be problematic if you start dealing with sub-army level units in that they may be too armor heavy and thus cause more headaches. Though, at the moment, they seem about right, given the mammoth size of the army and the number of infantry, I have doubts you could afford to outfit many full-equipped armored divisions.

With regards to Centauro, I should have spliced in the the word "heavier" before turreted units. I'm still not entirely sure why you're using it. Since it's designed to be an MBT killer, are you attempting to generate more protection for your forces given spending constraints? It struck as odd you were using tank destroyers, fairly specialized vehicles, when you don't have a general purpose IFV in service like the M2 or any of the BMPs; Strykers can fill that roll, but if they're "anti-armor vehicles", I assume they're loaded with TOW/ATGM turrets and thus rather ill-suited for IFV purposes. Furthermore, given the raw numbers of infantry, a thousand Strykers would do quite little for them. The number of wheeled vehicles is a nice touch, as it gives the feeling that the army is attempting to field armor within its budgeting constraints, but it also implies a bit of schizophrenia when it's not geared towards the massive numbers of infantry that constitute the bulk of your forces.

Just a bit curious about it all and trynig to help. If you'd like me to stop, kindly say so.

Well, the Israeli Defense Force have the word "defense force" in their name, but they've got extensive first strike capability within their arsenal. I should clarify what I was referring to. Do you plan for your army to be able to deploy substantive numbers of troops in an offensive capacity on relatively short notice or will they largely stay at home on garrison duty, protecting the homeland and never really deploying all that far from their home base? As, if you intended for it to be former, you're very ill-equipped to do that.

I planned it from the start as a defense force never intended to be fully deployed far from home. But I was toying with the Idea of reducing the numbers in one Army group and changing it to a expeditionary force.

I never questioned your ability to maintain an army of this size. What I questioned was their training level. By ThirdGeek, your defense budget is ~$2,300 billion USD or, if my math is right, $57,500 dollars spent per man in your army. The US spends, last time I checked, ~$300,000 USD per man, while I spend ~$1,500,000 and some of the bigger NS states spend ~$2,000,000-$3,000,000. The fact is that relatively low spending per capita translates into a force that is going to be ill-equipped and ill-trained because procurement and training are expensive propositions. Given the sheer size of your force, I would think that the army rates just above a partisan militia in terms of unit cohesion and jointness. I'd also think that they'd suffer from a standard issue weapon known for its cheapness, probably the AK-47 since you're using in-essence human waves from the numbers presented. This doesn't make it so, as you haven't detailed force demeanor and training, so that's something to consider working on.

Noted and I will work on changing that. What would be a resonable size to you in regards to my population, etc.?

With regards to armored vehicle numbers, in all honesty there's no easy way to determine them. You could go back and construct what vehicles are in each type of unit and then just multiply from there, but that's really a labor of love. You could just come up with numbers off the top of your head, but that could be problematic if you start dealing with sub-army level units in that they may be too armor heavy and thus cause more headaches. Though, at the moment, they seem about right, given the mammoth size of the army and the number of infantry, I have doubts you could afford to outfit many full-equipped armored divisions.

Yeah, those numbers I did come up with off the top of my head as I had no luck in researching what would be a appropiate ammount of armored vehicles to field. When I posted those figures I was wanting for people like you to tell me whether it was too much/less etc. then I could go from there.

With regards to Centauro, I should have spliced in the the word "heavier" before turreted units. I'm still not entirely sure why you're using it. Since it's designed to be an MBT killer, are you attempting to generate more protection for your forces given spending constraints? It struck as odd you were using tank destroyers, fairly specialized vehicles, when you don't have a general purpose IFV in service like the M2 or any of the BMPs; Strykers can fill that roll, but if they're "anti-armor vehicles", I assume they're loaded with TOW/ATGM turrets and thus rather ill-suited for IFV purposes. Furthermore, given the raw numbers of infantry, a thousand Strykers would do quite little for them. The number of wheeled vehicles is a nice touch, as it gives the feeling that the army is attempting to field armor within its budgeting constraints, but it also implies a bit of schizophrenia when it's not geared towards the massive numbers of infantry that constitute the bulk of your forces.

The reason my armored equipment seems a little bare at the moment is that im not done researching what vehicles I think would work well as a part of my military. I.E. lack of troop transports, etc.

Just a bit curious about it all and trynig to help. If you'd like me to stop, kindly say so.

Not at all. If this criticism/advice can help me become a better rp'er then by all means I welcome it and appreciate the time you've given me by helping me get my armed forces straigtened out.

NOTE: When I was coming up with this list my total forces size was 2 million fighting troops spread out over each army group. But I didnt know if this was too little or what, so I guess when I came up with these new numbers it was with the intention of being able to downsize if necessary.

And BUMP... (with changes)

Very impressive army. No problems that I can see, though on the issue of the support vehicle, I would suggest a type of armoured car that has good terrain capabilities and has a either a light cannon or two heavy machine guns mounted. Less than three men to crew it. And say four or five of them to a company of infantry. Or simple make units out of only them.

bump

And BUMP with updates...

Assuming that this military is largely designed for national defense, you seem to have some odd gaps in equipment.

Air Power
You have listed no dedicated air-superiority aircraft (the Harrier is not well-suited for air-to-air combat- despite the fact that it has been used in that role), no electronics warfare planes, and no airborne early warning. You get bonus points for including transport planes and helicopters, and more bonus points for organizing each Army with integral air units. However, since your force appears to be designed to remain more or less in place, your choice of the C-141 seems a bit out of place. A word of caution regarding the AC-130: the aircraft is slow and not particularly maneuverable. It is extremely vulnerable to inexpensive SAMs, and cold meat for any sort of air-to-air fighter planes- including WW II era propeller aircraft.

Recommendations
Get some specialized air-to-air combat aircraft (you can use dual-purpose aircraft like the US F/A-18). Replace most of the AC-130s with specialized ground-attack aircraft. Get several airborne radar aircraft. Equip some of your new fighters as Wild Weasel (air defense suppression) aircraft. Equip a few of your transports as airborne command posts.

Ground Forces
First, you get lots of bonus points for having engineering vehicles included in your TO&E. I'm not familiar with most of your vehicle choices, but I don't think any of them are artillery. You need artillery. Lots of artillery. 155mm and larger guns, bombardment rockets, and air-defense artillery. You'll also need more supply and transport vehicles of various sorts. As currently designed, your military can't move quickly in any direction. All an enemy need do is punch through your large (but static) units with something like an armored division, and the war is effectively over.

Recommendations
Since your military appears organized for defense, I recommend having enormous quantities of self-propelled artillery. Artillery is the most effective weapon available. Since you have relatively little armor, and a great deal of your armor is fairly light, you'll need to make up for it with artillery. You should also replace most of your light tanks with LAVs equipped as tank-killers. You'll lose one or two for each tank you kill, but the LAVs are a lot cheaper than tanks, and they can be carried in your transport aircraft (unlike MBTs). I further suggest getting more LAVs equipped as IFVs. Get more air-defense equipment (point-defense guns on LAV hulls, dedicated mobile SAM launchers, air-defense artillery, etc). Your ground-forces are mostly infantry, and an enemy with lots of artillery and ground-attack aircraft will pulverize your troops.

Hope this helps,


TEO

How about renaming your Army Groups? Its a very dull name for them.

Assuming that this military is largely designed for national defense, you seem to have some odd gaps in equipment.

This is probably because im not done picking out all the vehicles I want.

Air Power
You have listed no dedicated air-superiority aircraft (the Harrier is not well-suited for air-to-air combat- despite the fact that it has been used in that role), no electronics warfare planes, and no airborne early warning. You get bonus points for including transport planes and helicopters, and more bonus points for organizing each Army with integral air units. However, since your force appears to be designed to remain more or less in place, your choice of the C-141 seems a bit out of place. A word of caution regarding the AC-130: the aircraft is slow and not particularly maneuverable. It is extremely vulnerable to inexpensive SAMs, and cold meat for any sort of air-to-air fighter planes- including WW II era propeller aircraft.

I wasnt sure whether to equip my army with their own air-superiority fighters or to just leave that to the air force I havent gotten around to designing yet.

The harrier is just for support of groud troops/armored divisions, as is the spectre. And as for the inclusion of the heavy cargo aircraft (the C-141) I was toying with the idea of altering one or two army groups as a dedicated first strike, expeditionary force. Can you give me any pointers on this?

I will probably reduce the number of spectre's as I would be using them for precision air support for groud troops/special forces.

Recommendations
Get some specialized air-to-air combat aircraft (you can use dual-purpose aircraft like the US F/A-18). Replace most of the AC-130s with specialized ground-attack aircraft. Get several airborne radar aircraft. Equip some of your new fighters as Wild Weasel (air defense suppression) aircraft. Equip a few of your transports as airborne command posts.

Im still looking at what fighters/specialized aircraft to include, but at the moment im thinking of using the F-22 or the Rafale as a air superiority fighter. What do you think? Also, im still researching what specialized aircraft to use.

Ground Forces
First, you get lots of bonus points for having engineering vehicles included in your TO&E. I'm not familiar with most of your vehicle choices, but I don't think any of them are artillery. You need artillery. Lots of artillery. 155mm and larger guns, bombardment rockets, and air-defense artillery. You'll also need more supply and transport vehicles of various sorts. As currently designed, your military can't move quickly in any direction. All an enemy need do is punch through your large (but static) units with something like an armored division, and the war is effectively over.

I havent added artillery yet as im still looking as to what types to use, i.e. lots of stationary traditional towed artillery or something like paladins, or g6 rhinos for mobility.

Recommendations
Since your military appears organized for defense, I recommend having enormous quantities of self-propelled artillery. Artillery is the most effective weapon available. Since you have relatively little armor, and a great deal of your armor is fairly light, you'll need to make up for it with artillery. You should also replace most of your light tanks with LAVs equipped as tank-killers. You'll lose one or two for each tank you kill, but the LAVs are a lot cheaper than tanks, and they can be carried in your transport aircraft (unlike MBTs). I further suggest getting more LAVs equipped as IFVs. Get more air-defense equipment (point-defense guns on LAV hulls, dedicated mobile SAM launchers, air-defense artillery, etc). Your ground-forces are mostly infantry, and an enemy with lots of artillery and ground-attack aircraft will pulverize your troops.

I already have lots of these (Air Defense Anti-Tank System [ADATS]) which serve a dual purpose as tank killer/close anti aircraft support.

And ive already talked to one person to this, but what would be a good size for my MBTs?

Hope this helps

Yes thank you it did. Please respond to my questions.

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As a general rule of thumb based on my reading i would say you want about 250 MBTs and 1500APCs/IFVs per armoured divsion and 150MBTs and 1200APCs/IFVs per mechanised Infantry divsion. An straight infantry divsion might have 500 IFVS/APCs

So for say a Crops that cosnsits of say 1 armoured divsion, 2 medhanised divsions and 2 infantry divsions you would be looking at:
550MBTs and 4000 APCs
Take that upto an Amry of 10 of those Corps: 5500MBTs and 40,000APCs/IFVs

Obviusly that absed on general number and assumptions on your force dispostions and doesn't incldue thigns like recce or air defence vehicles.

One major recomendation is to Dump either the AMX10s or the centauros they both do exactly the same job. i woudl say dump the AMX-10s and replace them with the APC varient of the centauro to simplify your supprot requirements a bit.

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I wasnt sure whether to equip my army with their own air-superiority fighters or to just leave that to the air force I havent gotten around to designing yet.

Didn't realize from your first post that you were planning for a separate air force to augment the aircraft assigned to the ground forces. That being the case, I would still replace most of the Harriers with something more effective- the Tornado, F/A-18, and A-10 all come to mind as excellent ground-attack aircraft.

The harrier is just for support of groud troops/armored divisions, as is the spectre. And as for the inclusion of the heavy cargo aircraft (the C-141) I was toying with the idea of altering one or two army groups as a dedicated first strike, expeditionary force. Can you give me any pointers on this?

That would entail a major shift in focus for your military. A strike unit needs a lot of firepower and mobility: Mechanized infantry and Armored divisions, all massively supplied with armored transports and mobile artillery. I suggest any of several tactical transports such as the C-130. Be aware that few aircraft can carry MBTs, and those that do only carry one at a time. C-130s have rough-field off-loading capacity, which is not the case with C-141s or larger planes. Aircraft alone will not help you project power with your ground forces.

I also suggest converting some of your infantry units to airborne and airmobile units. This means lots more helicopters and C-130-type aircraft, but fewer large transport planes.


I will probably reduce the number of spectre's as I would be using them for precision air support for groud troops/special forces.

Once again, the Specter is a special-purpose aircraft. It has too many disadvantages to be the optimal ground-attack plane. Replace almost all of them with some of the aircraft I suggested previously. They're still useful in the right circumstances, so keep a few- but you won't need anywhere close to the numbers you listed.

Im still looking at what fighters/specialized aircraft to include, but at the moment im thinking of using the F-22 or the Rafale as a air superiority fighter. What do you think? Also, im still researching what specialized aircraft to use.

The F-22 has received a lot of hype, but has never seen combat as far as I know. Several of the top of the line Russian planes are excellent, and the new Bearkut might be worth looking at:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9735/suclass.htm

I suggest checking out your library's copy of Janes' Aircraft to pick a good fighter.

I havent added artillery yet as im still looking as to what types to use, i.e. lots of stationary traditional towed artillery or something like paladins, or g6 rhinos for mobility.

My recommendation is for mostly self-propelled artillery, with a few batteries of towed guns. Here is a good example, but there are lots of others:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/atmos/

I already have lots of these (Air Defense Anti-Tank System [ADATS]) which serve a dual purpose as tank killer/close anti aircraft support.

And ive already talked to one person to this, but what would be a good size for my MBTs?

You'd be better off with something like a CIWS mounted on an LAV chassis as a dedicated point-defense system and a variety of mobile SAM launchers. Specialists usually work better than multipurpose equipment.

As far as how many MBTs you should have, it is largely your decision. Most players use the US Army Armored Division model- which incorporates several large infantry units as well as the tanks- but this is largely a matter of personal choice. I suggest the mechanized infantry division for your model. Here's a good example:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/4id.htm

Mechanized infantry divisions usually have a versatile mix of armor and infantry which would (in my opinion) better suit your defensive military model.


TEO

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OOC: Are you modern tech? Because a modern, well-trained and equipped army doesn't need millions of soldiers.

OOC: Are you modern tech? Because a modern, well-trained and equipped army doesn't need millions of soldiers.

Yes I am modern tech but you have to remember that most of those numbers are Support/Engineering/C&C/Logistics/ Etc. And the thought of being overrun by 40 million soldiers from a rival nation doesnt sit to well with me.

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