NationStates Jolt Archive

AMF News Update

Today the Automagfreek defense department released the following statement about the creation of it's newest addition its already excessively armed ranks. While not an actual weapon like a gun or tank, this newest program in the AMF military is by far one of the most....creative and downright scary things ever devised. Here is an excerpt from the speech:

Welcome.

Today I am proud to announce to the world our newest addition to our military ranks. This is the end result of careful resource management and decision making by Lord Dreadfire himself.

I am here today to announce the formation of the 1st Airborne Sapper Division. Comprised of Sentinels that have lost limbs in combat, the Airborne Sapper division will make full use of every disabled Sentinel. The intensive training that the Sentinels grow up with will be put to it's fullest use so that we get as much of a return on our 'investments' as possible.

The Sappers will be outfitted with a special harness, and from there additions can be strapped onto it, be it high explosive, chemical, biological, or other such weapons. They will also be fitted with a 30 caliber machine gun and over a thousand rounds of ammo, and as they fall from the heavens they will fire on targets below after sighting them in with their optical goggles. The explosive charges will be set to detonate at a very low altitude, causing mass destruction to infantry and light armored vehicles below. With the addition of cluster munitions and or ball bearings, the Sappers can wreak havok on any foe that lies beneath them. And no, they will not be equipped with a parachute.

Permanently disabled Sentinels have been a burden on our military and our economy, and we figured that they needed one last 'hurrah'. After all, what Sentinel would pass up an opportunity to take down the enemy with him in a blaze of glory? Imagine the rush as you plummet towards the ground at breakneck speeds with your enemies beneath you, firing into their ranks and screaming like a madman moments before you detonate and leave them lifeless.....

The 1st Airborne Sapper Division will begin simulation training effective immediatly. From there they will move on to actual simulation, but for that exercise they will be equipped with a parachute.

http://67.18.37.14/40/9/upload/p971819.jpg
Chairman Samuel Jackson
-Department of Defense-


+++++++++++++++

OOC: This thread is the result of a hilarious conversation today at work with my best friend.

<I congratulate you, Lord Damien Dreadfire, on your performance of military weaponrys functions. During your Department Head's speech, he spoke of Chemical and Biological weapons being attached to the Sapper, and Jenrak would be offer our own chemical weapons to give your soldiers for a venerable price, as we are quite capable with poisons and masochistic weapons.>

<If this offer intrigues you, then let us know, and we shall send over a large case as soon as we can. Once again, another congratulations on another rank added to the Excessively Armed Empire.>

Serrin, Mistress of Homocide

Thought we appreciate the offer, we must decline. Automagfreek can produce more than enough biological and chemical material on it's own to keep our Sappers supplied. Also our number 1 weapons supplier, The Resi Corporation, can also keep us in stock with said weapons if we need it.

http://67.18.37.14/40/9/upload/p971819.jpg
Chairman Samuel Jackson
-Department of Defense-

Bump

Ah the great nation of Automagfreek. As you have done in the past with your weapons resulting in the seeds of fear planted in some while sadistic grins formed on others you truely have a unique weapon here. Only the twisted minds of your citizens could create such a beautiful use for your weapons.
~Phoenix Maxwell
Presidential Military Advisor

Amazing, simply amazing. Instead of creating devices to improve the quality of life in your nation and the world, you instead create weapons that could possibly shorten the life of our planet. This is a sad day indeed.

Cacifica The Great
Empress of the Conservative Farming Society of Nascent

"I can only laugh at the attempts of Automagfreek to create a a new weapon."
"This idea requires full control of the enemies airspace, something your enemies will not be giving you without a good fight. And even if you have this it would be impossible for most of your men to fire their guns when they are being dropped, as a paratrooper I remember that both arms and legs should be extended in all four directions to avoid diving in one direction or even tumbling. Firing .30 cal weapons is thus impossible, not to mention that local anti-air batallions would point their guns at your men and aircraft."
"I will most definitly laugh when this unit is deployed in combat."


<[Airmarshall Reinhardt]>
Chief of Staff of the Vermini Airforce
Durthangist Reich of Vermin

OOC: AMF, you might want to look into Russian use of 'suicide' paratroopers in WWII for some help with using those troops, even though personally they are waste of personnel if you ask me. :)

IC:

The concept of this is not new and is in fact of very dubious military value, we also suggust that the Freekian Military rethink this rather belated attempt to make good their own inferiority on the battlefield by ulitising expensive trained (if disabled) personnel in this manner.

We would also highlight the fact Air superiority is required and against any commendable opposition this will be nigh on impossible to achieve in light of scale of the forces that would involved let alone the ground defense and replacement rates that would be there.

Go with God,

General Ganoes Paran,
Chief of Staff of the Imperial Guilder Military,

I must ask, how does Automagfreek intend to prevent the sentinels, spinal cord/neck from snapping under the great weight produced from their armament? There skeletal structure though engineered strong will be unable to defend against the sharp twists of freefall descent due to the heavy load of ammunition and chain gun carried. How will the sentinels remain on target, as I would assume that the recoil would send them into a spin snapping their necks/back, depending where the harnesses are located.

OOC: A sapper is a military unit that undermines fortifications in order to let them collapse. This was done to make a frontal assault easier. I don't have a clue what a sapper has to do with airborne units, but anyway. Until you plan to use these suicide sentinels, you still have to feed them.

IC:
Official Statement

"The Reich laughs at the ineptitude of the "government" of Automagfreek. Throwing down the crippled and injured? Barbarians. And that's your nation, a hellhole of barbarians led by a man who can barely spell his own name. But alas, not everybody can be as perfect as Guffingford is."

- Ministry of Foreign Affairs representative.

"I can only laugh at the attempts of Automagfreek to create a a new weapon."
"This idea requires full control of the enemies airspace, something your enemies will not be giving you without a good fight. And even if you have this it would be impossible for most of your men to fire their guns when they are being dropped, as a paratrooper I remember that both arms and legs should be extended in all four directions to avoid diving in one direction or even tumbling. Firing .30 cal weapons is thus impossible, not to mention that local anti-air batallions would point their guns at your men and aircraft."
"I will most definitly laugh when this unit is deployed in combat."


<[Airmarshall Reinhardt]>
Chief of Staff of the Vermini Airforce
Durthangist Reich of Vermin


And you sir have no imagination.

Firing a weapon that is attached to your body while in the pike position is entirely possible. The gun is fixed over their head, so as they fall they will be able to fire downwards, not very accuratly, but fire nontheless. You may laugh and say that they will be AA fodder, but while you are shooting at them you will be missing other very important things in the air....and this is assuming you even still use flak cannons. If not, why waste missiles on falling people?

And no, we can drop them in hot, whoever said we had to control the airspace? Think for a moment.

Mock it all you want, but when your command bunker gets blown up by a human bomb, we'll see who laughs last.

http://67.18.37.14/40/9/upload/p971819.jpg
Chairman Samuel Jackson
-Department of Defense-

I must ask, how does Automagfreek intend to prevent the sentinels, spinal cord/neck from snapping under the great weight produced from their armament? There skeletal structure though engineered strong will be unable to defend against the sharp twists of freefall descent due to the heavy load of ammunition and chain gun carried. How will the sentinels remain on target, as I would assume that the recoil would send them into a spin snapping their necks/back, depending where the harnesses are located.


OOC: Head and neck support, similar to a HANS device in NASCAR.

OOC: A sapper is a military unit that undermines fortifications in order to let them collapse. This was done to make a frontal assault easier. I don't have a clue what a sapper has to do with airborne units, but anyway. Until you plan to use these suicide sentinels, you still have to feed them.

IC:
Official Statement

"The Reich laughs at the ineptitude of the "government" of Automagfreek. Throwing down the crippled and injured? Barbarians. And that's your nation, a hellhole of barbarians led by a man who can barely spell his own name. But alas, not everybody can be as perfect as Guffingford is."

- Ministry of Foreign Affairs representative.


OOC: Well no kidding, of course they're going to be fed. And the name 'Sentinel Sapper' has more esthetic than literal value.

OOC: Well no kidding, of course they're going to be fed. And the name 'Sentinel Sapper' has more esthetic than literal value.Indeed, so they still cost money that way, so I hardly see any benefit. But I'll depart this thread to haunt someone else.

Shut up. Just... shut the hell up you God damned Nazis! If we're so inferior, why do you persist in commenting on every little thing we do? And besides... I'm sure I could find a few blemeshes on your party's shining armor that outweighs this. Say.... between 1937 and 1945? Or have you erased those years from your history books?

http://home.earthlink.net/~alpha_zero_usm/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/overlord.jpg
Riok Oran
Chief Advisor to the Overlord
Foriegn Minister

To: Chairman Jackson

A very interesting assignment for your maimed, Chairman. I certainly wouldn't have thought of something like this...

Of course, thhe Marines don't have to think of ways to relieve ourselves of the burden caused by maimed Assault Marines. Each Marine knows what his duty is. All of the Marines that are missing arms are now in Drill Instructor positions. The battlefiled experience they have is a benefit and the sight of a DI with only his right arm screaming at you gives the trainees a nice look at what war can do to a man.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Alpha-Zero/Marco.jpg
General Benjamin Marco
Minister of Defense

OOC: Seriously, it is a litte weird that a leader so bent on the fact that we're inferior pays so much attention to what we do.

Indeed, so they still cost money that way, so I hardly see any benefit. But I'll depart this thread to haunt someone else.


OOC: I knew someone was going to bring up cost. Take a standard bomb or missile for example.

Take the charge, the casing, the guidance systems, and the cost of labor. Stack that up against a satchel charge, food, crappy outdated machine guns, crappy outdated AND used body armor, and like a week's worth of training.

I think it would definatly be cheaper to send in a Sentinel Sapper as opposed to a laser guided bomb. It also takes care of the disabled, that way they are no longer a drain on my society.

[OOC: Well... you need to supply extra soldiers until they're needed and equip them with these expensive harness things just so you can have a single-shot weapon against enemy infantry which (in the absence of a parachute and seemingly any direct control over the aim) is unlikely to actually hit anything... it all seems like a waste of money to me.]

[OOC: Well... you need to supply extra soldiers until they're needed and equip them with these expensive harness things just so you can have a single-shot weapon against enemy infantry which (in the absence of a parachute and seemingly any direct control over the aim) is unlikely to actually hit anything... it all seems like a waste of money to me.]

OOC: Expensive harness? A few pipes and a helmet is all you really need, I could make one for like $20. They're going to die anyways, so it really doesn't matter if they die halfway down. As far as supplying extra soldiers, the Sappers will be 'drafted' and given their training as soon as they are needed. In the meantime, they continue their lives in their hospital beds or homes. I don't see how that point of yours holds water really.

Waste of money? Possibly. Outdated weaponry will be destroyed anyway, so they might as well be put to SOME use. And useless soldiers might as well be put to use, right? Plus think of the psychological impact is will have on foes as falling human bombs are landing all around them, spraying gore and the like everywhere.

[OOC: Well an MG costs a few hundred dollars to a thousand, and I don't think that you have an MG for every soldier that is going to get wounded... the harness again (mostly the body armour) is worth a few hundred to a thousand or so as well. You then have to factor in possibly losing the planes that drop these things as they will be flying over a defended landing zone which will almost certainly have SAM defence. I'm not saying that it will bankrupt you or anything, I just doubt that an entire battalion of these things will cause more than about 5 casualties and that just seems wasteful. It also doesn't give your soldiers much encouragement to fight, knowing that they can be seriously wounded for their country only to be thrown out of a plane without a parachute attached to some explosives.]

[OOC: Well an MG costs a few hundred dollars to a thousand, and I don't think that you have an MG for every soldier that dies... the harness again (mostly the body armour) is worth a few hundred to a thousand or so as well. You then have to factor in possibly losing the planes that drop these things as they will be flying over a defended landing zone which will almost certainly have SAM defence. I'm not saying that it will bankrupt you or anything, I just doubt that an entire battalion of these things will cause more than about 5 casualties and that just seems wasteful. It also doesn't give your soldiers much encouragement to fight, knowing that they can be seriously wounded for their country only to be thrown out of a plane without a parachute attached to some explosives.]

OOC: Like I said, outdated and possibly malfunctioning weaponry will be destroyed anyway, so it will be put to use. The harnesses aren't a big deal, because the Sappers are going to die anyways. If they die halfway down it doesn't matter, it simply has a greater psychological effect on the enemy to have people falling all around them.

As far as effect, saying they won't cause casualties or destruction is bunk. If that's the case, why do we bother dropping bombs? Sample principle, except a human is the 'bomb'. They can be dropped on warehouses, roads, bridges, command bunkers, parked convoys, you name it.

And as far as the effect it has on my soldiers encouragement to fight, let's just say it's more incentive NOT to be wounded, or to fight on while wounded and die.

Plus with the assistance of illegal drugs, anything's possible. Not like a Sentine isn't willing to give his life to take some of the enemy down with him anyway.

[OOC: If you want to drop bombs, you may as well just drop bombs, there isn't any point it attaching someone to it. There's even less point attaching malfunctioning or damaged weaponary to it. And generally this kind of thing doesn't encourage your soldiers to fight to the death, it encourages them to desert. Giving your soldiers drugs when they go into battle... isnt... exactly... the best policy.

But whatever, it's "AMF-y" I suppose. Do what you want, I'm just saying I don't think it's a very good idea.]

I have to say that I agree with those that feel that your new program is simply a waste of time, funds and resources.

As falling bombs, they are more expensive that just tossing piles of explosives equipped with a timer out the door, and just as inaccurate.

It takes a substancial sum to create and train your Sentinels - why waste that by throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak - some one ( Crimmond I believe it was ) mentioned that their disabled became drill instructors - an excellent idea, and there are other places in both the military and civilian sector they could still live productive lives.

And while you may be able to build what you consider a suitable harness for $20 and some time in a machine shop - what government can do that? Not even yours I'd guess - that is the nature of the beast.

and this: Plus think of the psychological impact is will have on foes as falling human bombs are landing all around them, spraying gore and the like everywhere. Not trying to gross any one out, but I've been sprayed with gore, didn't stop me from what I was doing. Now some pantywaste civilians might freak, and lesser trained military, but on the whole, if you are in a firefight you aren't really going to notice.

but this is just my .02...

OOC: The only real use of this form of weaponry, that I can see, would be the psychological impact on the men they sappers are attacking.

But I think it would be cheaper just to strap some explosives to the injured, put them in a plane, forget about the harnesses and guns, and push em out, letting them fall to their deaths, and when they hit, KABOOM! Plus could you imagine the effect seeing hundreds of men covered in explosives simply jumping out of a plane without a chute? *shudders* I know it would give me nightmares for a helluva long time.

Shut up. Just... shut the hell up you God damned Nazis! If we're so inferior, why do you persist in commenting on every little thing we do? And besides... I'm sure I could find a few blemeshes on your party's shining armor that outweighs this. Say.... between 1937 and 1945? Or have you erased those years from your history books?


OOC: I am happy with your explanation AMF, and will accept the falling soldier bombs in any future rp, if only for the reason to write about gut strewn streets.

However, Crimmond. I will make this clear now, the Right Wing Collective is not a bunch of Nazis, people and nations can be right wing and not be a Nazi, in fact, I believe George Bush is right wing, is he a Nazi? Margret Thatcher was right wing, was she a Nazi?

There is a stark contrast between being right wing and following the ideals of national socialism, randomly stating the contrary, and insulting an entire alliance is slander and can be considered as a flame bate and general OOC insult.

At the moment there is no nation in the RWC that advertises a National Socialist government, and I am currently unawares of any player in the alliance that is, in fact a National Socialist in real life.

Guffingford and the RWC have every right to comment on new technology advertised by any player on this game, if AMF did not want anyone to comment, he would label the thread REFERANCE ONLY or CLOSED, however it has been a public announcement of his new idea and therefore is open for public comment.

In future please keep your slanderous comments to yourself and kindly delete the part in your post that labels the RWC, which therefore includes me, as a Nazi.

PS. What the heck does world war two have to do with anything? No one in this day and age is responsible for it, so please, kindly keep your unfair generalisations to yourself.

Thank you,
Unified Sith.

The Democratic Imperialists wish to congratulate AMF on this amazingly well-reasearched, and entirely plausible weapon. We would like to make a few points in support of this weapon:

1) This weapon will obviously be really really accurate, the fine sentinal will easily be able to guide himself to the correct position, just by sticking out his arms. The average terminal velocity for a free-falling man is 53-76 m/s (119-170 mph), it is perfectly possible for a disabled man to stick out his arm and direct his fall, it is a survival instinct and does not require any training. Who needs a laser guided bomb when you have one of these?

2) These uber weapons are as cheap as chips! Really, if you add up the cost of a normal unguided bomb, it is much more expensive for that lump of metal and explosives than it is for the equipment on one of these super-sappers. Think about it, you can get a couple of pipes for a $1 down at the market, and as for the gun, you can just take them off the dead bodies of your enemies. Oh, and the strap you can get the soldier's mummys to make. So total cost: $1.

3) Meh, who needs all those injured soldiers anyway? Your economy is strong enough to lose them, and no-one at home will miss them. Even your own soldiers will be so involved in cutting the enemy into little bits with their big knives that they won't notice their old comrades hitting the ground at 170 mph next to them.

4) The enemy will be really frightened by your superior tactics, they will run away in terror at the sight of their enemy being brave enough to jump out of planes at them. They will think your command must be fiendishly clever to think of something so worthwhile and destructive as killing their own men.

5) The sentinels are so amazingly good at their job that they have enough strength to overcome a force of ~700N acting upwards on their body (like ~700 1kg bags of sugar on you) amd aim themselves/their fire at the enemy. As they are disabled sentinals this is an easy feat to accomplish.

6) Of course the firing of the machine gun will not have any effect on the delicately balanced position of the free fall.

7) The sappers will not need any expensive breathing equipment at higher atmospheres because they can hold their breath. Otherwise they will fly low and drop them while dodging AA fire.

I hope this has cleared a few misconceptions about this fine piece of military thinking from Automagfreek. Obviously we are very interested in the implications of such a device in a major war. We dread to think of all the damage that will be done by these weapons of mass destruction.

Yours Lovingly
Ivan Denisovitch,
CEO of Venom Defense

The Democratic Imperialists wish to congratulate AMF on this amazingly well-reasearched, and entirely plausible weapon. We would like to make a few points in support of this weapon:

1) This weapon will obviously be really really accurate, the fine sentinal will easily be able to guide himself to the correct position, just by sticking out his arms. The average terminal velocity for a free-falling man is 53-76 m/s (119-170 mph), it is perfectly possible for a disabled man to stick out his arm and direct his fall, it is a survival instinct and does not require any training. Who needs a laser guided bomb when you have one of these?

2) These uber weapons are as cheap as chips! Really, if you add up the cost of a normal unguided bomb, it is much more expensive for that lump of metal and explosives than it is for the equipment on one of these super-sappers. Think about it, you can get a couple of pipes for a $1 down at the market, and as for the gun, you can just take them off the dead bodies of your enemies. Oh, and the strap you can get the soldier's mummys to make. So total cost: $1.

3) Meh, who needs all those injured soldiers anyway? Your economy is strong enough to lose them, and no-one at home will miss them. Even your own soldiers will be so involved in cutting the enemy into little bits with their big knives that they won't notice their old comrades hitting the ground at 170 mph next to them.

4) The enemy will be really frightened by your superior tactics, they will run away in terror at the sight of their enemy being brave enough to jump out of planes at them. They will think your command must be fiendishly clever to think of something so worthwhile and destructive as killing their own men.

5) The sentinels are so amazingly good at their job that they have enough strength to overcome a force of ~700N acting upwards on their body (like ~700 1kg bags of sugar on you) amd aim themselves/their fire at the enemy. As they are disabled sentinals this is an easy feat to accomplish.

6) Of course the firing of the machine gun will not have any effect on the delicately balanced position of the free fall.

7) The sappers will not need any expensive breathing equipment at higher atmospheres because they can hold their breath. Otherwise they will fly low and drop them while dodging AA fire.

I hope this has cleared a few misconceptions about this fine piece of military thinking from Automagfreek. Obviously we are very interested in the implications of such a device in a major war. We dread to think of all the damage that will be done by these weapons of mass destruction.

Yours Lovingly
Ivan Denisovitch,
CEO of Venom Defense

You got a little brown on your nose... :rolleyes:

Stuff
OOC: Um... He is a German Reich. His leader is "Cobragt Rundevelt, Führer of Social Nationalist Guffingford." Social Nationalist is a lot like National Socialist in name. Fuhrer is another indication. So... lets see. How would Riok make the jump from those little tidbits to WWII? Hmmm...

Also, please tell me how one of my characters IC views on those little IC facts translates into me thinking that the whole Right Wing, of which I happen to be a member of, are Nazis. I'd love to hear that one. And my OOC comment at the end was just my befuddlement that Guffingford's posting and his commenting on all these Gholgoth threads is sorta strange when his leader seems to think that Gholgoth is beneath him.

So, I would suggest that you please keep OOC and IC seperate from now on and not jump up my ass about a post I made that you obviously did not read.

Also... Intelligent Neighbors: *golf clap* Taking the art of sarcasm to a new level.

OOC: I am happy with your explanation AMF, and will accept the falling soldier bombs in any future rp, if only for the reason to write about gut strewn streets.



OOC: Yeah, that's about all I really wanted out of this (RPing Sappers slamming into houses and pavement), but yet again overly critical people have to question every little aspect of EVERYTHING. This is one of the reasons I normally do not write threads like these, because as seen here we get tons of people that run in and scream 'NUH UH!!111'

Seems a lot of people forgot to read this part of the first post:

OOC: This thread is the result of a hilarious conversation today at work with my best friend.

I didn't think people would take something based on a JOKE and once again get overly critical with their 'OMG R34L WURLD LOG1C!!!11'. I really don't give a shit if every sapper gets mowed down by AA fire, it really doesn't matter to me. I just think it would make for entertaining RP and would be quite fun to do.

If I want to raid a maternity ward and drop babies out of a plane I'll do it, just as I'll strap a bomb to some poor dumb disabled Sentinel and tell him that it's his duty to jump out of a plane and destroy the enemy.

This is another reason I want to move to the NS forum, people in I.I have no imagination because they're hellbent on having 'OMG 4CCUR4T3 ST4TZ!!111' and real world logic. I don't give a crap really, as long as it gives me and a few others a chuckle.

OOC: hmmm, this is a new concept to me. Its quite hilarious actually.

OOC: I'm glad everyone enjoyed my post, I pride myself on my British wit. But seriously, I am not saying that it is impossible to drop guys out of a plane, but rather that it is not going to be that effective in battle. But, as this is NS, and anything goes, it does not really matter.

IC:
The Government of Intelligent Neighbors has ordered that new recruits to the army should be taught about the sickening methods used by rival powers in order to null any shock when they happen in a conflict.

hilariously stupid

congrats

"This is an excellent idea! Hey, would it be possible for us to drop crippled Sentinels out of planes as well?!"

Druid Darkon
About to be Fired From the Taerkasten Druidic Council

[OOC: I think you misunderstand. I don't comment on these things because I hate the authors and want to punish them for designing something that isn't quite ub3r1337 st4tz0r for me, but because I like discussing military technology with people and (hopefully) helping them to develop something a little better and more useful. If you don't like that then just ask me to leave. You don't have to go on a massive tirade of 1337 and insults against me and the II community.]

I dont give a damn about accurate stats but i will comment when i see an idea that cant be very succesful. If you dont want me or others to respond then make this closed and invite those who will say they like it.

Or learn from a pro :)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=413839
Numbers of remarks: 0

I realise that most of the people on here are not military geniuses or don't make a living out of diagramming designs for tanks, planes and warships, but if you're going to post technology that you want people to "buy" or at the very least accept in your RPs as being workable, you ought to allow people the right to ask you questions about the technology if something isn't striking them right.

I'll give an example. When I put together my first-ever MBT, one of the posts was one that I thought was in a slightly scolding tone from Praetonia. Did I take offence that he would take that tone with me? No. I read it for what it was, feedback that was posted in an attempt to get me to improve what I'd worked on for the future. When I post Secret IC posts where I'm developing a new warship class, I'm hoping to get constructive feedback that will help me improve the design or let me see something I might have missed.

If someone's going to post a joke post, there are ways to make it clear that's what you're doing. At first glance, it didn't look like AMF's post was that clear as a joke, though it could simply be the lack of convergence of slightly different senses of humour. But joke thread or no, this is not the place to get nasty. If you don't want people to comment or question your designs, say so from the very beginning. If you want to make snide, insulting comments about someone's work that are purely OOC, don't bother.

[/rant]