NationStates Jolt Archive

Codename: AT-GAT-12P
Mission: Provide support to infantry troops, attack enemy troops, serve as a transport vehicle for the crew, provide anti-aircraft defense, etc.
Photo:
http://armor.vif2.ru/Tanks/MBT/t-95.jpg

Main gun: 152 mm GP-237 cannon. Can fire all types of ammunition including ATGM rounds. Fitted with KPJ "Uron" recoil system. The main gun consists of two tubes, once the missile/shell has exited the firing tube it thrusts backwards and fits inside a second tube. While it is in motion two 1 meter long levers absorb most of the recoil. It also uses COG computerized fire controll system. Maximum range varies with a type of shell or missile used and angle of elevation of the main gun while firing.

The ATGM missile used for firing from the main gun is Armor Piercing Guided APG missile.

Secondary Weapons:

Kord 2.7 Machine gun, modified electrically version/regular version:
One is placed on top of the rotating turret, it can be fired by a crewmember if there is a need for it. Two electronically controlled versions are hooked up on the rotating turret. They can be fired by a crew member sitting inside the tank by pressing a fire button on tanks display. A camera is attached to each one for better precision then fired. The electronically controlled machine guns can be retracted into a special armored compartment in order to protect them from enemy fire.

BRU-106 Missile Firing system (optional): This feature is not located on a standard issue GAT-12 tank, the initial plan was to put this system on one in every 12 tanks, in order to find the balance between the cost and efficiency. BRU is a rocket launcher which is planted on the rear of the tank, it then needed can retract over the main turret of the tank. It is made of 5 mm titanium armor below which is a layer of heat resistant material. It provides for additional armor for the tanks turret and in its active position can simultaniously launch 32 armor piercing missiles, from 8 launching tubes. It has a trapezoidical shape with curved sides for increased protection. Once the system is active the main gun of the tank locks in a forward position, and the machine guns retract in their protected bays. It provides defense for the sides, the rear and the top of the main turret in the active state and for rear tracks and top of the rear armor in disactivated state.

The missile used is Laser Guided Penetration Missile, LGPM.

PVA-123 Anti-aircraft gun (optional): This feature is not located on a standard issue GAT-12 tank, the initial plan was to put this system on one of every 7 tanks in order to find a balance between efficiency and cost. The gun does not retract, and two of them are located on the sides of the main turret, using flank gun rounds they are able to shoot down enemy helicopters and jet fighters from 7 kilometers away.

Protection systems:

Shtora-1 optronic counter measures system: Included on all standard models of GAT-12 Shtora-1 is designed to disrupt the laser target designation and rangefinders of incoming ATGM. The GAT-12 is also equipped with a laser warning package that warns the tank crew when it is being lased. Shtora-1 is an electro-optical jammer that jams the enemy's semiautomatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) antitank guided missiles, laser rangefinders and target designators. Shtora-1 is actually a soft kill, or countermeasures system.

The Shtora-1 system comprises four key components, the electro-optical interface station, which includes a jammer, modulator, and control panel; a bank of forward-firing grenade dischargers mounted on either side of the turret that are capable of firing grenades dispensing an aerosol screen; a laser warning system with precision and coarse heads; and a control system comprising control panel, microprocessor, and manual screen-laying panel. This processes the information from the sensors and activates the aerosol screen-laying system. Two infrared lights, one on each side of the main gun, continuously emit coded pulsed infrared jamming when an incoming ATGM has been detected. Shtora-1 has a field of view of 360-degrees horizontally and -5 to +25-degrees in elevation. It contains 12 aerosol screen launchers and weighs 400kg. The screening aerosol takes less than 3 seconds to form and lasts about 20 seconds. The screen laying range is between 50-70 meters.

Smoke Screens: 12 902B 82mm mortars with 3D17 smoke grenades discharger

Schematic:
http://armor.kiev.ua:8100/fofanov/Tanks/MBT/t-90_front_armor.gif

Armor:
~80-90cm LOS cast mantle x 0.6-0.71 = 54-56cm KE & 80-90cm HEAT
81.5cm LOS x 0.72 [Cast/Ti-BDD] = 59cm x ~0.953 = 56cm plus K-5 = 74╠2cm KE
81.5cm LOS x 0.88 [Cast/Ti-BDD] = 72cm plus K-5 = 118╠4cm HEAT
70-72cm LOS x 0.72 [Cast/Ti-BDD] = 50-52cm x 0.993 = 49-51cm plus K-5 = ~67-69╠2cm KE4
70-72cm LOS x 0.88 [Cast/Ti-BDD] = 61-63cm plus K-5 = 104╠5cm HEAT4
44-48cm LOS x 0.66 [Steel/STB] = 29-32cm KE plus K-5 where present = 48╠6cm KE
44-48cm LOS x 0.77 [Steel/STB] = 34-37cm HEAT plus K-5 where present = 70╠16cm HEAT
[3 x 1.34 + 10.5 x 0.41 + 11] / 0.385 = ~51cm KE plus K-5 = 69╠2cm KE
[3 x 1.3 + 10.5 x 0.55 + 11] / 0.385 = ~54cm HEAT plus K-5 = 94╠4cm HEAT
17-23cm KE and 17-23cm HEAT
Side turret ranges from 40-60cm thick near front thinning to ~ 15-20cm around back. This is probably half and half cast/STEF thus the KE armor is 0.66 while the HEAT armor is 0.77. The effective KE armor ranges from 40cm narrowing quickly to 26cm and 10-13cm around back. The HEAT armor ranges from 46-31cm near the front down to 15-12cm Around back. In the side and rear turret are mounted external storage boxes ~50cm thick that will offer a modicum of spaced armor, this may amount to an additonal ~13-15cm HEAT armor. Additionally K-5 is mounted around the front side of the turret.
The side hull is 6cm thick rolled steel but the lower side hull around the wheels is probably only 2cm thick; side skirts add 25 mm thick reinforced rubber [with steel?] plate plus 60cm airgap increasing the HEAT armor by about 15-17cm against 2nd gen and 26-28cm against 1st gen warheads. This rubber skirting is unlikely to add more than 1cm to the KE side armor, due to deflection. The fuel tanks along the sponsons should add 65cm x 0.1 KE and 0.3 HEAT or an additional 6-7cm KE and ~ 20cm HEAT armor. Over the front half of the side hull Kontakt-5 is mounted which probably adds ~30cm HEAT and at least 5 cm KE resistance.
The rear armor is unlikely to be more than 4cm but fuel tanks mounted there could offer 0.1 to 0.15 Te resistance to APFSDS and 0.34 resistance to HEAT. The HEAT armor would range from 3-4cm to as much as 18cm additional HEAT armor.

Engine: Two MK diesel hybrid engines are located inside the rear armor of the tank, a third MMK reserve diesel fuel tank is located 3 centimeters below them. Pumping fuel into the engines then needed. Each individual engine runs one side of the tracks. Top speed is 82 kilometers per hour on the ground, 12 kilometers per hour then crossing bodies of water.

Operational systems:

GATC-21 computer controlls all of the operational systems, including GATLG in-cabin vision monitor, GATNV night vision monitor, GATTV thermal vision monitor, GATRV radar, all the previously listed combat and portection systems, engine operation, etc. Its operational functions are separated in two cotegories, defensive and offensive. It has an automatic shut down feature installed for protection against EMP.

GATNV Night Vision Monitor Cameras are installed in several consealed places on the tank for maximum efficiency.

GATLG monitor uses the same cameras as GATNV monitor but does not run the image through a night vision lense. It provides 13 kilometers of zooming radius.

GATTV thermal sensors are located on the retractable pads on top of the rotating turret and give a heat signature of all the objects within a 5 kilometer radius, it can work with GATLG cameras for zooming capability.

GATRV radar can mark 27 targets at 30 kilometer range including missiles, enemy tanks, enemy vehicles, and if PVA anti-aircraft gun system is mounted it is modified to spot enemy aircraft flying as high as 3.2 kilometers above the ground.

Distribution of the systems:

Commander: All systems included
Driver: GATNV, GATLG and GATRV systems only
Gunner/PVA operator/BRU operator: All systems

Weight: 62 Metric tons without BRU or PVA systems mounted.

Cost: 18 million USD

ooc: whatever happened to my T-125?

Interesting design, nice to see something different. Though, those exposed fuel tanks are bad.

That 152mm system looks familiar, I could swear I've seen something like it on Wikipedia before...

Yes you probably have, there is a Russian tank design with the gun of that caliber, it was supposed to enter service in 1994 but did not because of the lack of funding, i just took the idea and played on it. Yeah i am gonna do something about those fuel tanks. Purhapse make them smaller and put them inside the armor. What do you think?

@Masspwnage: I bought those production right primarily because i needed a cheaper tank for my stockpile, you know the one i keep to help communist revolutionaries all over the world. I am gonna have a great sale tomorrow, will sell all my T-95 and those tanks i bought from Maccabees.

ooc: Really? I thought the T-125 was the better tank.
And the main gun fires 671 kilometers? Jeez.

Oh please, exposed fuel tanks to the rear... hello Milan HEAT round

Thats 479 miles, also i just got that one out of nothere, i'll get the range on 152 mm main gun and i'll replace what i have now. Also yours cannot fire guided missiles from its main gun. You have many more systems but most of them are too future tech to be used by me. For example your microwave emitter. Is it outside the armor? Inside it? Does it rotate? Why are your other systems not affected by being so close to it? And so on.

ooc: the microwave emitter is basically the same system used in the Shortstop anti-munitions system used by the U.S Military, except i can turn the power up high enough to literally cook people.

Yes, it rotates, because it's mounted to the same rig as the CIWS miniguns.

Oh please, exposed fuel tanks to the rear... hello Milan HEAT round

I am currently thinking on fixing that problem. Those tanks with RBU will be protected then RBU is in an inactive state, as for the rest of the tanks, as i said i am still thinking.

Oh please, exposed fuel tanks to the rear... hello Milan HEAT round

Auxilliary fuel tanks are generally not for combat. They're useful for cross-country traveling and add some range, like drop tanks on an airplane. When you get into combat you just drop them off the back.

ooc: the microwave emitter is basically the same system used in the Shortstop anti-munitions system used by the U.S Military, except i can turn the power up high enough to literally cook people.

Yes, it rotates, because it's mounted to the same rig as the CIWS miniguns.

I'll stick with my own tank, but yours is good, i'll be making them just not for my own use.

Auxilliary fuel tanks are generally not for combat. They're useful for cross-country traveling and add some range, like drop tanks on an airplane. When you get into combat you just drop them off the back.

Correct. I read that somewhere, and it seems like a very practical and reasonable thing to do.

You simply drop them off the back when you enter the battlefield..

Correct. I read that somewhere, and it seems like a very practical and reasonable thing to do.

You simply drop them off the back when you enter the battlefield..

This, of course, is completely counting on the enemy to be polite enough to wait for you to get to a designated battlefield to attack. :)

If you're ambushed, or if there's a sudden airstrike... well, you do the math.

Edit: I'd also like to state for the record that MassPwnage's tank is a heaping pile of crap. It's underweight for all the stuff that's on it, has some impossible tech, is underpriced, and there's no way it can power all the stuff it has on it with just a diesel engine.

ooc: I would like to state for the record that your equipment is more than worse and maybe you should go back to analyzing the flaws inherent in some of your equipment.

ooc: I would like to state for the record that your equipment is more than worse and maybe you should go back to analyzing the flaws inherent in some of your equipment.

(gonna reply to this in your T-125 thread, no need to crap up someone else's)

I am currently thinking on fixing that problem. Those tanks with RBU will be protected then RBU is in an inactive state, as for the rest of the tanks, as i said i am still thinking.
At least you're working on it

This, of course, is completely counting on the enemy to be polite enough to wait for you to get to a designated battlefield to attack. :)

If you're ambushed, or if there's a sudden airstrike... well, you do the math.

Edit: I'd also like to state for the record that MassPwnage's tank is a heaping pile of crap. It's underweight for all the stuff that's on it, has some impossible tech, is underpriced, and there's no way it can power all the stuff it has on it with just a diesel engine.

Well, its a trade-off between cross country endurance and, er...not having your fuel shot off. If you're using a lot of tanks and are in a fairly orderly battlefield (i.e. there is a front line, rear areas, etc, all clearly defined) auxiliary fuel tanks will save a lot of logistical trouble. Tanks eat up a lot of fuel, and you could be easily adding another hundred kilometers to the vehicle's range by installing auxilliary fuel reservoirs.

If you plan to be fighting with fewer tanks or in a much more pourous or ill-defined area, then you just leave the extra tanks off. It saves a lot of logistical trouble in the end.

Have you come to the range yet because 621km is definitely WAY too far. That's like the Iraq baby supergun. Albeit a few shots would have shaken the gun loose from the force alone.

Well i have described my recoil system, also from what i read a T-90 has a range of 600 kilometers and a 125 mm gun, and 152 mm gun is not only possible it is used on some T-95 prototypes.

I will have a different range for firing the ATGM and the regular rounds. I need to get around and do more research.

Any suggestions are apreciated.

This, of course, is completely counting on the enemy to be polite enough to wait for you to get to a designated battlefield to attack. :)

If you're ambushed, or if there's a sudden airstrike... well, you do the math.

Edit: I'd also like to state for the record that MassPwnage's tank is a heaping pile of crap. It's underweight for all the stuff that's on it, has some impossible tech, is underpriced, and there's no way it can power all the stuff it has on it with just a diesel engine.

Well there is a radar to avoid ambushes by other armored vehicles. And if its ground troops with guided ATGMs thats what Shtora-1 is for. Also since 1 in 7 of my tanks will have their radar modified to spot air targets, if my tanks are moving in the formation they should be fine.

...also from what i read a T-90 has a range of 600 kilometers...[snipp]

That figure refers to how far it can drive with fuel carried onboard (probably including external auxiliary tanks as well), not the ballistic maxrange of its main armament... ;)

Well tanks are not really my thing, i am more of a nuclear reactor kind of guy. What would be an aproximate range for a 152 mm main gun?

I'm thinking somewhere around 12km on a flat plain with prefect conditions against a stationary target

All I can remember is that CM/DA/VE used to say the range for his 'uBer' T-98W's gun was 10 kilometers, and everone made fun of him for that.

11 kilometers it is then. Now i think i know how to solve the fuel tank problem. Make them thinner but longer and put them inside the rear armor, they should be thin enough to not interfere with other systems. They should be placed above the tracks. What does everybody think?

Just remember that range and accurate range are two different things.

All I can remember is that CM/DA/VE used to say the range for his 'uBer' T-98W's gun was 10 kilometers, and everone made fun of him for that.

It would depend on mount and gun tube elevation angle...

In WW2 and Korea US tankers sometimes parked their tanks on hillsides and slopes to get a higher elevation angle for their guns, and a bit more range when acting as improvised self propelled artillery.

I'm not sure, but a tank style cannon (working pressure/muzzle velocity) in an artillery mount would have a pretty decent range tank guns could be compared with long-range artillery pieces such as the Russian 130mm M46 or Swedish 120mm Karin field cannon (as opposed to howitzers), both loitering around the 27-30 km mark even with standard ammunition (and so far I've seen no basebleed or RAP ammunition for tank guns, so thats what I will compare with ;)).

Note that this is theoretical range in a mount allowing high trajectory angles and dropping fire, i e not available in a normal tank mount, high angle mounts would force the turret to become larger to house elevation and recoil gear (and therefore be more difficult to armour efficiently).

Guesses pulled outta my arse?

~15km max theoretical range for APFSDS. The danger area is usually greater than this on tank gunnery ranges, so they can probably fly something like that.

Half that for HE/HEAT due to lower initial velocity, faster drop in velocity due to drag, causing the trajectory to intersect with the ground closer to you.

Powered rounds like GLATGM's and powered KE projectiles such as the popular "RAMJet" rounds are another ballgame with a whole set of additional complications.

Here's a few of the reasons why tanks don't engage each other at these ranges (yet).

Detection. Even with high tech vision enhancing gear it is very hard to see, much less identify vehicles at these ranges even if you for some reason found a place where there was nothing in between you obstructing the view (the Earth isn't all that flat, not to mention filled with trees, hills, mountains, shopping malls...).

Time of Flight and Enemy Movement. Lets assume we have a miracle APFSDS round travelling at 2000 m/s, loosing no velocity due to drag (miracle part) and fire it at a tank 15 km away. It will take this round 7,5 seconds to travel to its target. Thats a long time, can you be sure where that tank will be in 7,5 seconds? Even with perfect accuracy, at these ranges you need a crystal ball, oracle or pure luck to actually hit stuff not nailed to the ground.

Accuracy. Imperfections in the gun tube, projectile and quality variations in propellant quality assures that every round won't end up in the same place, add to this the winddrift due to windexposure (remember, were talking ranges over wich air pressure, wind direction and ambient temperature may well change dramatically) of these extreme range shots and you see why hitting is hard, even if the target paints itself dayglo orange and advertises its location in the local newspaper to be seen and then sits very still in the middle of Death Valley.

Thanks for clearing that out, i will nto specify the range for my main gun, due to the fact that i don't know what kind of round will be fired and how elevated the gun gonna be, while RPing however i will refer my opponent to your post if he has any questions concerning the range.