NationStates Jolt Archive


Separating Church from State!

Fleuria
11-04-2005, 06:43
The minister for media representation for the Kingdom of Fleuria, would like to highlight an editorial written by esteemed writer John Foreman from the Fleurian Capital Press (FCP) in light of the above poll:

Henry the VIII, would have had to have been one of the most influential politicians of middle history!! Despite some of his reasons for the induction of such changes, it would have had to have been one of the most progressive moves in history. Separating church from state!

It was bad enough when England was a CATHOLIC state, and sending all the country's money to Rome. But at the same time, every whim of the Pope, greatly influenced the way the country was run! The King therefore had a lot less power. By creating his own church (church of england), King Henry VIII gained a lot more control, control which was ever increasingly going back to the people, as the development of the constitutional monarchy was at hand.

It is sad to see that some nations in the world have started heading backwards from this progression, allowing the church to influence more and more of their decisions. Decisions like banning stem cell research (which potentially could be the end of most, if not all, diseases, particularly genetic disease), and abortion (considered a women's right - as it can be concerned with the health and well being of the expectant mother, and for the expected child.), and like Gay Marriage (whether it be recognised by some churches and not recognised by others).

These are all decision generally viewed upon differently by different groups, and in no way should be imposed upon the whole population at the discretion of a few right-winged church freaks!!

Taking ethics and morals into the discussion, these decisions should be made separate from the influence of the church. This is because, religion is a choice in itself, and as such, decision made by a church should not impede on people that do not go to church, or object to the Authoritarian beliefs imposed.

If you don't like it, don't do it!! Simple as that!!!! Someone (eg. the church) should not control the individual's every decision, and accordingly, the government should not adopt laws that impede the individual's freedom to choose!!!

In essence. The church should be separate from the state, and that is the way it should remain!!

If you are male and love another male, then you should be allowed to marry another male!!! (same with female-female). There are some church congregates that do recognise this as a union witnessed and condoned by god, and those congregations that object shouldn't influence that!! How does it really affect them anyway?

U don't have to agree with it, but since when should your opinion impede on other people's freedom?

end excerpt.

As representative of the people of Fleuria in Media Representation, I would formally ask representatives to participate in the international poll concerning the Church and State.

Geoff Spartan
Minister for Media Representation
Fleuria
Scissorsintheeye
11-04-2005, 06:52
God forbid someone with higher powers actually has some morals, right? I mean, it's not like normal, smart people have morals and actually care about how our country is on the decline.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 06:58
Media release (FCP):

The free nation of Fleuria acknowledges and supports the above statement.

"The decisions of a few within a church shall not impede upon the freedoms of the people of this nation as a whole!! They can go about and live their lives as they choose, without directly affecting the way other Fleurians may choose to live, and vice-versa!!" states esteemed Senator Simmons, representative for the Democrats.

The government of Fleuria accepts all people and does not impede on freedoms such as marriage, and the varied beliefs of its many people. Whilst its Catholic populace may object to the decisions made by some Fleurians, it accepts the governments' view and acknowledges the freedoms that are bestowed upon the people.

The gay community, amongst other minority groups, and their friends, family and supporters celebrate at the liberties hereby granted!!


Courtesy of,
Geoff Spartan
Minister for Media Representation
Fleuria
The Mormon Church
11-04-2005, 07:00
It seems to me that my country is doing fine with church and state combined i consulte with the prophet of the mormon chuch everyday and ask him what should i do with certain issues.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 07:01
God forbid someone with higher powers actually has some morals, right? I mean, it's not like normal, smart people have morals and actually care about how our country is on the decline.

May I ask where you live? Australia? the US? and do you believe that the banning of gay marriage to be a decline?
The Resi Corporation
11-04-2005, 07:09
T3h wrong forum. I'm predicting a MOVE in your future.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 07:11
It seems to me that my country is doing fine with church and state combined i consulte with the prophet of the mormon chuch everyday and ask him what should i do with certain issues.

Sure you seem to think your country is doing fine. But by which part of your country do you evaluate the country as a whole? The best part, or by the conditions of the country's poorest or most oppressed?

Some laws are fine for the majority of people, but they can sometimes have an even greater effect on minority groups. Just be thankful that you aren't part of one of these minority groups. Remembering that most people in these minority groups don't choose to be there. They don't choose to be poor or oppressed. They are made poor and/or oppressed at the benefit of the rich!!
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 07:13
T3h wrong forum. I'm predicting a MOVE in your future.

This the right forum. It is about government decisions that interest and potentially influence the international community!! hence an international incident!!!!
Intangelon
11-04-2005, 07:14
It isn't about religion, per se. It's about what politician or party can claim God on their side and thus influence a really large bloc of voters. So it was in the past (remember how the country freaked when Kennedy was running? Thought we'd have to pass all legislation through The Vatican?), and so shall it be. If there were more votes and more money in being baby-skewering Satan-lappers, trust me, an American politician wouldn't think twice about donning a pair of horns and reddening his complexion.

Legally speaking, separation isn't in the Constitution. Article VI Paragraph 3 states merely that no religious test shall ever be used to qualify an candidate for office. Fat lotta good THAT's done.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 07:20
It isn't about religion, per se. It's about what politician or party can claim God on their side and thus influence a really large bloc of voters. So it was in the past (remember how the country freaked when Kennedy was running? Thought we'd have to pass all legislation through The Vatican?), and so shall it be. If there were more votes and more money in being baby-skewering Satan-lappers, trust me, an American politician wouldn't think twice about donning a pair of horns and reddening his complexion.

Legally speaking, separation isn't in the Constitution. Article VI Paragraph 3 states merely that no religious test shall ever be used to qualify an candidate for office. Fat lotta good THAT's done.


For the record, I live in Australia, and have very limited knowledge of what is in the US constitution, assuming that is what ur referring to...

And exactly, it isn't about religion, per se, it is about how a politician can use a religion to justify a decision and influence the nation as a result.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 07:41
I would appreciate people to vote (honestly) in my poll....

- it would be good if i would be able to right a report on the results.
- feel free to post your comments.
- tell me about how your nation addresses such issues!
The Resi Corporation
11-04-2005, 08:03
This the right forum. It is about government decisions that interest and potentially influence the international community!! hence an international incident!!!!
It's about decisions of your NationStates nation, not of real-world nations.
Nascent
11-04-2005, 08:08
As Resi already pointed out, this does not belong here. II is only for In Character International Incidents as well as the Nationstates forum. This does not concern your Nationstates nation, so therefore this topic would belong in the General Forum.

Its really nothing to get upset with though, because this topic has a better chance of stirring up a debate in the General forum than it does here anyway.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 08:16
As Resi already pointed out, this does not belong here. II is only for In Character International Incidents as well as the Nationstates forum. This does not concern your Nationstates nation, so therefore this topic would belong in the General Forum.

Its really nothing to get upset with though, because this topic has a better chance of stirring up a debate in the General forum than it does here anyway.

I agree that this is better suited for the general forum, but at the same time, it does not exclude nationstates!! My nation upholds the statement presented in this thread!! Does yours? It is an issue in nationstates international community, just as it is in the real international community!!! In nationstates, you are presented with issues that address this particular issue, or that is partly related!! So it is still appropiate!
Nascent
11-04-2005, 08:22
Ok, since it seems your stuborness blinds you from seeing anything past the way you see it I will make this really simple for you:

The role playing forums are for role playing. Not discussing what events in the history of man helped shape how many poeple role play in these forums.
Fleuria
11-04-2005, 08:34
Ok, since it seems your stuborness blinds you from seeing anything past the way you see it I will make this really simple for you:

The role playing forums are for role playing. Not discussing what events in the history of man helped shape how many poeple role play in these forums.

Considering that nationstates is about running a country and making political decisions, this is almost in parallel to the real world, and real world issues!! Ultimately, this poll was put forward by the nation of Fleuria in attempt at an international survey, surveying the opinions of leaders within nationstates!! Taking this into consideration, role play as the leader of your nation and answer my poll!! Does it really matter that it is actually linked to real world issues? It shouldn't. The game is meant to be reflective of the real world.

As leader of the people of Fleuria, I ask you the representative of your nation, to participate in my poll, so that it may reflect on the opinion of the many nations of nationstates!!
Azihra
11-04-2005, 13:30
The nation of Azihra would like to formally commend the nation of Fleuria for its efforts in promoting justice for the people, freeing the oppressed from the sometimes prejudicial influences of the church.

Azihra would like to formally advocate the proposal of a resolution to be presented to the UN in reflection of such issues, where the influences of the church can be considered overpowering and authoritarian, if not despotic, and in clear impediment of the rights of minority groups.

Sean Gould
Ambassador
Azihra