NationStates Jolt Archive

Am I the only person who sees it as unreasonable for a space-faring nation to only have 500 million people?

It seems to me that most space empires would be HUGE compared to modern-day nations. During Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, 6th Season, a team of genetically engineered humans predicts that over 900 billion Federation Citizens alone would die if they did not end the war with the Dominion. That's a lot larger than any single one empire on NS.

Would it really be unreasonable to have the listed Population of the FT nation at hand become a fraction of the actual population? Possibly even the military population of this nation?

It seems to me that for FT nations this is reasonable, as everybody would be on equal terms still, and it would be more realistic.

I think you could look at it as having the FT country being a planet rather than a star empire of sorts. You'd have the opposite problem with 6 billion population countries in "modern" or "past" tech.

Am I the only person who sees it as unreasonable for a space-faring nation to only have 500 million people?

It seems to me that most space empires would be HUGE compared to modern-day nations. During Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, 6th Season, a team of genetically engineered humans predicts that over 900 billion Federation Citizens alone would die if they did not end the war with the Dominion. That's a lot larger than any single one empire on NS.

Would it really be unreasonable to have the listed Population of the FT nation at hand become a fraction of the actual population? Possibly even the military population of this nation?

It seems to me that for FT nations this is reasonable, as everybody would be on equal terms still, and it would be more realistic.

Well it depends doesn't it? Examples would be homeworld and Stargate. Both races (Bentusi and Ancients) ruled not by numbers, they only had a fleet each, but by sheer virtue of advanced technology and firepower.

I could see that...however you have to keep in mind that Earth already has, what is it, over 7 billion people? We have barely visited our own satellite, let alone the stars around us. It seems to me that by the time we can visit the stars in detail, our planet will be larger than it is now.

Future-tech and NationStates simply aren't compatible. One of the issues refers to a nations first space launch, thus proving that NS is intended to be played as modern-tech, not future-tech.

Well it depends doesn't it? Examples would be homeworld and Stargate. Both races (Bentusi and Ancients) ruled not by numbers, they only had a fleet each, but by sheer virtue of advanced technology and firepower.

I suppose that is true...but that does not compensate for species who reproduce extremely quickly such as the human race.

Most people, I don't know, seem to assume that people are just really, really big or something. As in, you can have a planet-covering city that only has a population of 300 million or something -- seeing as 6 billion people live on the Earth and most of the Earth's landmass is still not urbanised, I don't think any nation on NS has any need to have a city-planet. But they do. So I just guess people are just 'bigger' than they are normally :D. That's the impression I've always got. *Shrugs*

Apart from anything else, it's easier to organise a population of a few hundred million people than it is to organise a population of a few hundred billion.

I guess we should just assume that FT populations are representative, rather than a fraction -- otherwise, newer RPers might get a little angry that they don't understand why people are claiming to have a population of 700 billion...
I just use my imagination when dealing with these sorts of things. As Sarzonia said, MT nations have the same trouble with LARGE populations -- you'd have a lot of trouble fitting 6 billion people in one nation. Apart from anything else, having as many multi-billion nations on Earth as there are in NS would probably use up all the oxygen or something. So you just have to use your imagination.

I suppose that is true...but that does not compensate for species who reproduce extremely quickly such as the human race.

Yes, but humans also have the tendecy to want to kill each other. A lot. As do most races that aren't hive based.

That helps keep numbers down, and it's probably the thing we'll see when we do take to the stars as well. :)

Most people, I don't know, seem to assume that people are just really, really big or something. As in, you can have a planet-covering city that only has a population of 300 million or something -- seeing as 6 billion people live on the Earth and most of the Earth's landmass is still not urbanised, I don't think any nation on NS has any need to have a city-planet. But they do. So I just guess people are just 'bigger' than they are normally :D. That's the impression I've always got. *Shrugs*

Apart from anything else, it's easier to organise a population of a few hundred million people than it is to organise a population of a few hundred billion.

I guess we should just assume that FT populations are representative, rather than a fraction -- otherwise, newer RPers might get a little angry that they don't understand why people are claiming to have a population of 700 billion...
I just use my imagination when dealing with these sorts of things. As Sarzonia said, MT nations have the same trouble with LARGE populations -- you'd have a lot of trouble fitting 6 billion people in one nation. Apart from anything else, having as many multi-billion nations on Earth as there are in NS would probably use up all the oxygen or something. So you just have to use your imagination.

A very good point, a very good point indeed. :)

People are bigger than normal!!!

Yes, but humans also have the tendecy to want to kill each other. A lot. As do most races that aren't hive based.

That helps keep numbers down, and it's probably the thing we'll see when we do take to the stars as well. :)

But despite killing each other so much...we still manage to produce much faster than we kill.

But despite killing each other so much...we still manage to produce much faster than we kill.

True, but in space, you can use planet destroying weapons without worrying about fallout or effects on your own systems, which prevents the use of nukes in our world (and MAD, but that's quite hard to do in space unless you severerely outclass them in some respect). Hence, the destructive potential for populations goes to around x10000000000 times the normal.

And many humans would probably do that.

Am I the only person who sees it as unreasonable for a space-faring nation to only have 500 million people?

It seems to me that most space empires would be HUGE compared to modern-day nations. During Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, 6th Season, a team of genetically engineered humans predicts that over 900 billion Federation Citizens alone would die if they did not end the war with the Dominion. That's a lot larger than any single one empire on NS.

Would it really be unreasonable to have the listed population of the FT nation at hand become a fraction of the actual population? Possibly even the military population of this nation?

It seems to me that for FT nations this is reasonable, as everybody would be on equal terms still, and it would be more realistic.Well...

1. So long as it is your circle, feel free.

2. DA is spacedy. Still, you wouldn't exist in my universe. Since I don't inflate my pop. I do, however, deflate it (I'm playing a 1/10 population, since my people are, well, psychic cyborgs, and it would be a tad wanky to assume that I just have billions of them... Going along the lines of nations full of Sith, which is well, hilarious).

3. Even my canon nations (Changeling Founders, read, the Dominion of DS9, and Z Ha Dum, read, the Shadows of B5) don't do this kind of wank. To give you one example: Changeling Founders backstory does not include the control of 1/4 of the entire galaxy (despite ST canon). It does include it being on a single, lonely planet, slowly preparing to spread out, ensuring its security. Why? Because I adapt for NS purposes.

4. Not everyone. There are FT (Or rather, SciFi, seeing as nobody knows what the future brings. Assuming an apocalyptic scenario, it isn't unreasonable for FT to be stoneage technology & stuff salvaged from broken cars) nations who don't do this kind of wank (Me included), and naturally, you would break anything even remotely resembling balance when trying to interact with them.

5. If your ego forces you to have a backstory that includes RAR! TEH INTERSTELLAR EMPIRE! I BILLION ZILLION PEOPLE!!!11, I pity you. Be creative. What's wrong with being a colony reaching independence? What's wrong with simply starting out small? What's wrong with being the pityful remains of a colonisation fleet?

6. Check your NS stats. You are not a multitrillion spaceempire. You are a pityful multimillion (Eventually billion) spacedy nation. Everyone is. That's NS for you.

7. If you don't like the stats and want to upscale your stats in order to be BIG, start your own (http://www.invisionfree.com/) forum.

8. What about spacedies interacting with non- spacedies (I.e. me)?

9. Who says spacedy empires would be huge? Depending on population growth, available space (Suitable space) and the likes, you might as well assume that the populations are not really different, probably even smaller than what we know from RL (See also the minimal population growth and even decline in the first world).

EDIT: There is one instance where I accept inflated populations: The instance where the nation in question suffers from a problem diametrically opposite to my own: It's people aren't superior but inferior to the average human.

Which is to say, an orc nation playing a 10:1 population isn't a problem for me.

True, but in space, you can use planet destroying weapons without worrying about fallout or effects on your own systems, which prevents the use of nukes in our world (and MAD, but that's quite hard to do in space unless you severerely outclass them in some respect). Hence, the destructive potential for populations goes to around x10000000000 times the normal.

And many humans would probably do that.

Hmmm, I suppose.

Well...

1. So long as it is your circle, feel free.

2. DA is spacedy. Still, you wouldn't exist in my universe. Since I don't inflate my pop. I do, however, deflate it (I'm playing a 1/10 population, since my people are, well, psychic cyborgs, and it would be a tad wanky to assume that I just have billions of them... Going along the lines of nations full of Sith, which is well, hilarious).

3. Even my canon nations (Changeling Founders, read, the Dominion of DS9, and Z Ha Dum, read, the Shadows of B5) don't do this kind of wank. To give you one example: Changeling Founders backstory does not include the control of 1/4 of the entire galaxy (despite ST canon). It does include it being on a single, lonely planet, slowly preparing to spread out, ensuing its security. Why? Because I adapt for NS purposes.

4. Not everyone. There are FT (Or rather, SciFi, seeing as nobody knows what the future brings. Assuming an apocalyptic scenario, it isn't unreasonable for FT to be stoneage technology & stuff salvaged from broken cars) nations who don't do this kind of wank (Me included), and naturally, you would break anything even remotely resembling balance when trying to interact with them.

5. If your ego forces you to have a backstory that includes RAR! TEH INTERSTELLAR EMPIRE! I BILLION ZILLION PEOPLE!!!11, I pity you. Be creative. What's wrong with being a colony reaching independence? What's wrong with simply startinh out small? What's wrong with being the pityful remains of a colonisation fleet?

6. Check your NS stats. You are not a multitrillion spaceempire. You are a pityful multimillion (Eventually billion) spacedy nation. Everyone is. That's NS for you.

7. If you don't like the stats and want to upscale your stats in order to be BIG, start your own (http://www.invisionfree.com/) forum.

8. What about spacedies interacting with non- spacedies (I.e. me)?

9. Who says spacedy empires would be huge? Depending on population growth, available space Suitable space) and the likes, you might as well assume that the populations are not really different, probably even smaller than what we know from RL (See also the minimal population growth and even decline in the first world).

All of these are good points. I am just trying to put out alternative viewpoints on what already exists...it seems to me mostly likely that interstellar empires would be highly likely.

And I do not rely on multi-billion empires, but they can be as fun as smaller nations if played properly. Like I said, I am just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint.

Interesting points

Interesting. I should consider deflating my nation once I get to a certain point as well. Good idea, Haven't thought about that before.

This 'nation' doesn't even hit a million population. My Yautja travel around on their clan ship from hunt-to-hunt like nomads. There are only a few thousand Yautja in this Clan of Cetanu. If they are all killed, I can just start using another clan ship elsewhere in the galaxy, though never more than one ship at a time, unless it's conductive to a storyline (e.g. two ships meeting up for a massive hunt of astronomical proportions).

It really depends on your type of nation. This one is simply a large megacorporation, more on space stations or planet-based complexes than an actual country. It's "population" is really more its employee population.

It also depends on why a nation is in space to begin with. For Krioval, it's simple. We're ambitious, expansionistic, and after building the 1 km high city of Torokara, we ran out of land. We're stuck with some Pacific islands, which limit us. Most of Earth is claimed. So we went into space. Now we spend our time claiming entire planets and giving people incentives to emigrate, and we've set up mining and other resource collection efforts on these worlds to support the Kriovalian economy. All this is done with our 362 million people in an RPable manner.

It's perfectly reasonable to have a several system star empire consisting of a few dozen planets without wanking out. I do it, and I'm fairly sure I don't wank or RP badly.

There are a few ways you can do this, such as reserving a system for resource collection in which a small number of actual people are there to control the mostly automated population. Another way is would be to have worlds that are popular with tourists - paradise worlds with resorts, religious shrine worlds that people of many races flock to for worship, wilderness worlds that woodsy type people would go to 'live the experience' of surviving in the wilds, etc. The military, which is usually a small part of the population, could have systems in reserve that they keep as strongholds of data, weaponry, or even a last shelter for your race if the time ever comes for that?

These ideas are just the tip of the iceberg, I'm certain tat there are many other ways anyone can think of to claim planets without wanking out (though there are many who don't, you know who you are). Good luck with whatever you were trying to accomplish with this thread.

IF you look at Phalanix you'd see that I don't controll a interstellar empire. Just two systems a Earth based nation, Mars colony and a Luna Colony. And I tend to have the odd civil war or rebellion to keep the population at a nice safe level. Like for example at one point my most advanced infantry/space divsion rebelled and stole several hundred ships via being so advanced and such. Then there are my civil wars that tend to end in death tolls in the high millions and you are not going to be able to reproduce fast enough to recover from a 300 million death toll in afew months.

I think that this issue is at the flip of a coin, there is an even percentage that does both (inflating ego wise and one that knows its limitations, I try to be the later half).