NationStates Jolt Archive

I've decided to IGNORE all "Earths" in nationstates. This includes "Earth Chellis" or "Earth I" or whatever the original was, as it's really no different to all the rest. I will continue to Moderate Earth III in the sense I'll help organise everything, makue judgements on the validity of RPs etc but I relinquish all of my claims. I'll probably give them to someone like Truitt, but I'm not entirely decided. All nations that exist only within Earths are therefore also IGNOREd. I may or may not make exceptions should I feel like doing so.

I've come to this decision because Earth threads are mainly used for the following purposes:

1) Housing peoples' nations - I view this as godmod. There is no way that a NS nation could possibly fit in the space of any RL nation, except maybe China or Russia. It's also unimaginative, and I have little interest in repeating RL conflicts with NS massive populations.

2) Providing risk-free targets for Imperialistic conquest. This is, in my mind, equivalent to puppet-wanking. Ie, conquering a nation whilst RPing the other side as well so that there's no possiblity that you can lose and no one ever does. I don't have a clue why people have let this go on this long.

My provisional list of nations that exist only in Earth threads but I don't ignore for some reason can be seen below:

Bob-Bob - because he's such a good RPer, and the whole idea of his nation revolves around existing in a RL environment.

Guffingford - Ditto

IDF - Ditto

This may or may not be updated.

agree 100%

*Joins with Preatonia's Revolution*

I agree with you yet again. I decided from the very beginning of the Earths craze only to recognise NS Earth for RPs. This affirms my ongoing stance.

Yea but you have to understand this:

It is all just " imaginable ". We all know I can't even fit my nation into like...Germany or something. But people do it just for fun really, and everyone has a huge population. We have all questioned the realism, but now we don't really care. We just throw in logistics and pretty much call it fair.

I just do not know why you all have to bitch about it, like you are going to one day change it and get Earth's banned.

I just like to say this:

Don't like them, don't get involved with them then. Don't read there RPs, just reframe from speaking with them.

It is not really that hard.

Praetonia, do you really think so highly of yourself and your opinion that we needed an entire new thread just to tell us you don't like the Earths?

Nice, but I stand by the Earths being a good idea (as I was on Eriopid and enjoyed a common-border map for massed nations). Yes, but NS is full of realism. We have totally new weapons, such as the Doujin, that no Rl nation woudl possibly make, and we have genocide that would make Hitler cry (stole this phrase from the Super Dreadnaught thread a few minutes ago). NS is different, and is totally free-form, meaning the Earths are just as accepted as regional maps and continental maps. I don;t anyone yelling "That continent is impossible! That many people in that colony, impossible!" Yet, have you heard of high-rises? J./k. It is when you look at the realism is when it starts to lose its fun.

Losen up, have fun.

Also, if you were to give me your claims, I would worship your feet for five minutes. My European Empire is growing like my Asian >.< "Chikapoww!"

This is what, the third time you've ignored Earths? Albeit you may have some valid claims but eh...

Meh, whatever floats his virtual boat. Although he must realize that he is ignoring (And, consequentially, being ignored by) about half of the active II crowd, which includes a lot of real good RPers. Dunno why we need a thread to hear about it.

Come, comrades! Back to the safety and isolation of E2!

One earth is reasonable, two earths is okay, three is pushing it, 1337 is overkill. And we're getting closer to the 1337 than the 3. This is Nanakaland a March 2003 nation resurrected. You know why you don't see me in II so much? The overkill of parallel earths. I was going to get a rant on the earth threads done, but that was low on my priority list. I congradulate Praetonia for getting to it first.

Though I wouldn't be as extreme as ignoring because some Legion of Defense members RP on parallel earths. However, I have done pretty much the equivilent by not RPing in II unless invited. And why ignore all earths including Earth I?

*Golf Clap*

I haven't RPed on the NS forums for a long time, partly because of this and other factors.

I never saw the points in all the Earths, sure it was a decent idea at first but soon too many Earths were around everywhere... It fragmented up every too much in my opinion...

Although I guess I am guilt of fragmentation too as I RP mostly on regional forums with good stable RPing communities like The East Pacific's board.

Well...in retrospect, I do agree with the points that Praetonia outlined. The Earths serve these purposes, true, but they're also a good way to keep a smaller group, probably a lot of them are your old buddies, and just RP within that group. You know who you're dealing with, you've got more room to grab land (Which sparks RPs), and you can go about with fewer interruptions than on a single Earth. Also, the power balance is divided more. For example, a nation of two billion might be only a moderate power on the original Earth, but on Earth XYZ, he's a superpower.

So yeah, this does encourage greedy power games, but they can be fun too.

Earth II policy: If you are part of E2 you are also part of NS. But if you are part of NS you are not necessarily part of E2.

How can you possibly forget the reich?

Barbarian!

I can see your point of view Praetonia, but i think ignoring all "Earth" based nations is a wee bit drastic. I wrote up a big, long, serious reply to this, but after awhile thinking about it, I agreed.

People who've supported etc: Thankyou.

Pyschotika: Believe it or not, this thread isn't a thread to bitch about Earth threads. It's simply a statement of facts - I no longer recognise them, here are my reasons. Nothing more.

GnOoLoCoPeLep: Believe it or not, this thread is important for people who RP with me because otherwise they wouldn't know I no longer RP on earths! OMG that's so hard to understand!!

Truitt: Eripod is good and fun, because it's an invented landmass which I thoroughly support. I myself exist now in the Haven region: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/NBate/Haven.png Now if that map or a similar map could be expanded to include all of NS II (ie the RP nations, not the 80,000 puppets and 18,000 non-RP nations) then that would excellent. I would dispute the impossibility of the Doujin, but I don't want to turn this into another one of those threads.

Layarteb: I IGNOREd your earth some time ago, because it was and still is devisive (I mean, why do people need to mark a space program [EARTH II]?? It's been turned effectively into a side-RP of the kind that usually has an off-site forum).

The Order of Reptiles: I never recognised the existance of Earth II, primarily because it doesn't recognise the existance of me (you need territory to RP there). Again, it's you that has shut yourself away from the rest of II, not the other way around. Other nations that have claims on Earths, I will simply IGNORE the claims, not the main nation.

Nanakaland: I IGNORE all the earths because none of them have any place in NS. Just because Chellis got there first doesnt mean it's an inherently better idea than all the others.

The Order of Reptiles [again]: I recognise that, but I think there's a more imaginative way of doing it than simply copying maps of Earth over and over. Surely we can't make something like the Haven map, or Eropid that covers all fo NS?

Guffingford: Ah, I forgot. I shall add you to the list. Also probably IDF (I think he's an earth only).

OOC:

Oh look a bandwagon, quickly lets try and jump on!

Oh bugger its full.


Anyways, my two cents on this issue is as follows:

I exist on Earth I, as South Africa, and also in a kind of NS earth where everybody is punched into a globe (obviously very big) that will enable me to interact with them all.

I ignore to a point all of the other Earths but not the nations in them, although i do recognize their validity as giving younger nations a chance to have a RL earth "claim" from which to base RP's for those who dont have the time/conviction to create their own maps.

Personally Im baffled as to why you are ignoring everybodies claims from the earths, but it is your own opinion and reaction and therefore i respect it.

Guffingford has always been the Reich, and will never be anything else. Some people located on top of real life nations and play it well (Russian Forces, Bob-Bob) but most of them just have land to own something and to take pride in owning an × amount of nations. I have always disagreed with the idea of multiple earths, with the exception of earth I, being placed on the NS globe.

Independent Hitmen: I outlined my reasons in the original post.

Guffingford: Hmm... I might unignore Earth I, simply because it is mostly full of good RPers and not landgrabbers... but the "colonies" are just cheap ways of getting land.

Independent Hitmen: I outlined my reasons in the original post.

OOC: Yes i know you did, i was just expressing my view that i find them a little baffling as reasons, but reasons they still are.

OOC: Yes i know you did, i was just expressing my view that i find them a little baffling as reasons, but reasons they still are.
Ah, yarr.

Generally I concider it like this: (probably the fourth time I've explained this now in similar threads about why certain posters OOC hate Earth threads, I've never started my own rant topic about them because... well, it's not my style)

You get a spot in a Earth thread, you take something like a South African nation (to pull one at random) and then you either RP that nation as specifically being you're nation with the same name it's always had, or worse, you take it over only having to fight against an NPC force and add it to your empire.

To be fair, I generally don't mind these that much, I mean I actually get on with nations like Knoot who claims the Netherlands for his nation "Knootoss" because he's from there and it's easier for him to do so... all this means to me is that his nation is one a Europe like continent and it looks like Holland. Is it actually Holland? Does Iuthia actually exist? Of course not! Ultimately he's just using his home country as a template for his NS country which is all well and good.

What if another guy claims Holland? Should they argue about who is Holland? Personally I don't think so and I don't think Knoot would argue about such a thing because ultimately he's Knootoss, a nation which looks like Holland on a Europe like contintent... these is nothing stoping another nation being like Holland but being a different nation with a different name and history.

So thats that... both nations are still in my Nationstates, I don't have to ignore one because Knoot is Holland and the other isn't as they are both Holland-like nations which are geographically in different parts of the world. This way it makes sense and you can have a million Hollands and not have to worry about them clashing. It would be dull, but the system works.


Then you have those people who don't claim a Real Life nation for the perpose of a template for their own Nationstates nation, who actually roleplay the invasion of a nation from the real world we exist in... I've seen people RPing the invasion of Africa (tons of that), the middle east and even Ireland just to add them to their nations Empire, or perhaps because they feel that RPing an invasion of those lands will explain how their nation will solve Real Life issues in these nations.

Personally I don't like that type of abuse in Earth threads... firstly because they generally don't have to worry about other Nationstates with real people controlling the nations. They get to play the Real Life nation themselves instead of having to fight another player, it's a dream for many because it eliminates the annoying arguements about technology and superiority. It also means there is no threat of losing anything significant which they aren't prepared to lose... a good RPer will lose something but eitherway they are still able to control the thread completely.

Secondly it allows them to act out imperialism without the problem of having to conquer a real nationstate. The fact they are fighting an NPC makes it less offencive to some though other do gooders may get involved. In fact, the fact do gooders may get involved is sometimes used to goad these do gooders into conflicts with imperialist nations.

Finally, they can claim that the extra land is additional to the nation they roleplay. Depending on how this is done, I may or may not have to ignore the land. Basically if someone takes over an NPC territory like a part of South Africa, I will not accept them pumping up thier nations population because of that imperialist move... they can claim that the land taken added to their population for the perposes of explaining their current population (for example, it's unrealistic that most nations in NS are several billion people in size, so imperialist moves explain where all the people come from... you're stats are the same but explained by the fact you are taking other nations).

Furthermore, I concider these nations to not be real world nations, they may have the same name as Iraq and so on, but it isn't the Iraq because that doesn't exist in NS, NS is fantasy. No one person can claim Iraq and tell everyone else to fuck off because it doesn't exist. It's just an Iraq like nation and others could invade nations like it and call theres "Iraq" and still get the same recognition.


However land is aquired and whatever perpose it's used for I will concider them to be Fantasy nations which may be based on Real Life examples, no one person owns the rights to a Real Life nation so everyone can have land which looks like them and call them what they want to call them.

The one thing which will be ignored is when someone takes land in order to bump their nationstates stats up... generally I ignore that even when someone annexs another players land, so some guy invading an NPC nation and claiming to get another hundred million people from it on top of their population will be ignored. It's a simple policy.


Generally I avoid RPing in Earth threads as they are generally to themselves... I have little interest in them. Though I don't ignore nations who are part of Earth threads and I only ignore their territory if they GODMOD it... otherwise they are all still part of NS, if you don't want to be in the NS world and then you don't exist as far as I'm concerned.


I hope thats an easy system to understand really. I like to think it's the best way of dealing with the silly fad without ignoring a ton of people.

but the "colonies" are just cheap ways of getting land.

Er... people have unlimited land to start off with, I claim Iuthia is almost as vast as Russia so I don't mind people getting more land as it generally means they have to cover more with their military, the further away each bit of land is the worse it gets.

Land isn't my problem, my problem is more when people godmode themselves up a larger, better nation because they invaded some NPC.

Layarteb: I IGNOREd your earth some time ago, because it was and still is devisive (I mean, why do people need to mark a space program [EARTH II]?? It's been turned effectively into a side-RP of the kind that usually has an off-site forum).

The real reason you ignored my Earth is because I kicked you out for being in multiple Earths. The reason you will find [Earth II] on all our topics is so that members within Earth II know what to look for. It organizes it and makes it very easy. It also shows other members throughout NS that this is an Earth II RP. Our forum is in my links, follow it to Empire of Layarteb forums. If you consider that place active then I'd hate to see what you consider this place. There is no RP'ing over there, all of it is done within II. By the way, what kind of typo did you make in devisive, it's not a word.

Iuthia: People in II use Earth threads as a cheap and easy way of making empires, as you yourself say in your own post that I don't have time to write a reply to. That is what I was refering to.

Layarteb: I flatter myself if I believe it is I, and not you, who controls my life and makes decisions for me. Your earth was indeed IGNOREd party because of the "Only Earth II" rule, and also because it is effectively a seperate RP environment (in my opinion) rather dubiously placed in International Incidents. On the "[Earth II]" issue, I was not saying I am offended by the words "[Earth II]" but merely perplexed as to why a space program needs to be limited to an Earth. It's ludicrous.

Layarteb: I flatter myself if I believe it is I, and not you, who controls my life and makes decisions for me. Your earth was indeed IGNOREd party because of the "Only Earth II" rule, and also because it is effectively a seperate RP environment (in my opinion) rather dubiously placed in International Incidents. On the "[Earth II]" issue, I was not saying I am offended by the words "[Earth II]" but merely perplexed as to why a space program needs to be limited to an Earth. It's ludicrous.

Because, since Earth II is a separate and its own entity in the universe, a parallel dimension, if you will, the space thread was an international program between all Earth II members. TLS started a fantastic idea with it and unfortunately it sort of died but it was sort of the equivelent of the ISS for Earth II. So yes it would be limited to just E2 members. Seems like you're jealous you didn't get to play in it?

Because, since Earth II is a separate and its own entity in the universe, a parallel dimension, if you will, the space thread was an international program between all Earth II members. TLS started a fantastic idea with it and unfortunately it sort of died but it was sort of the equivelent of the ISS for Earth II. So yes it would be limited to just E2 members. Seems like you're jealous you didn't get to play in it?
OOC: You made it quite clear to me when I decided to leave that I could join whenever I want (I can get the links if you really want) but I have no interest in any Off-Site RPs, which it effectively is. I do wish you would stop using silly and irritating arguments like that for which you do not, indeed cannot, present any proof. I'm really not that bothered about losing "The Falkland Islands" on an Earth thread.

I don't mind the Earth system too much. It can be fun at times. However, I don't like people who only RP on the Earth threads. That's just annoying at times. I try to balance my RPs out, and generally have more non-Earth RPs going on, because I like to have more RPs where anyone can comment and join in. Earth RPs are mostly just to preoccupy me between things and let me practice my RPing (Because I just plain suck at military RPing. Being able to invade RL territories allows me a bit of time to practice).

OOC: You made it quite clear to me when I decided to leave that I could join whenever I want (I can get the links if you really want) but I have no interest in any Off-Site RPs, which it effectively is. I do wish you would stop using silly and irritating arguments like that for which you do not, indeed cannot, present any proof. I'm really not that bothered about losing "The Falkland Islands" on an Earth thread.

:: Tries to figure out how it is an off-site RP when all of the RP'ing IS DONE ON INTERNATIONAL INCIDENTS... ::

:: Tries to figure out how it is an off-site RP when all of the RP'ing IS DONE ON INTERNATIONAL INCIDENTS... ::
You know exactly what I mean. It follows the same format as off-site RPs only it is, as I said, "rather dubiously placed in International Incidents".

You know exactly what I mean. It follows the same format as off-site RPs only it is, as I said, "rather dubiously placed in International Incidents".

Not really. Off-site RPs are, in what I've observed, strictly limited to only those who know where the site is. E2 and other NS Earths (as there are a few off-site ones) are done on NS so everyone can see. Yes E2 is limited to those who have joined it to a degree. That bears in mind that anyone can join E2 provided they follow the simple rules. In addition, non-E2 members CAN play in E2 as mercenaries, rebels, groups, etc. at the request of a country inside E2 and it has happened before. Tanuio used BLARGastania as a rebel force when he took over Mexico and it ended with BLARG joined E2. So I'm still NOT following how E2 is off-site and no other Earths are when every one of them, E3 included, announces in the thread title that it's that particular Earth when every one of them is done on II. E2 is the strictist of them all so I don't see how any of the others are.

So lets see, I use the Netherlands Antilles as the only real colony on earth I(I've also extensively RP'ed as such during my occupation) but because I have one colony on an earth and all my other protectorates are player controlled nations I'm a landgrabber and should be ignored?

So lets see, I use the Netherlands Antilles as the only real colony on earth I(I've also extensively RP'ed as such during my occupation) but because I have one colony on an earth and all my other protectorates are player controlled nations I'm a landgrabber and should be ignored?
OOC: I don't ignore every nation that has an earth claim, I ignore the earth claims. You, obviously, claiming only 1 small claim which is important to your nation rather than invading vast swathes of territory for little reason are not really covered by this.

OOC: I don't ignore every nation that has an earth claim, I ignore the earth claims.

But I still don't understand the off-site comment. Basically you only see the NS side of each nation, which we've affirmed already. But I still don't understand the off-site comment.

You, obviously, claiming only 1 small claim which is important to your nation rather than invading vast swathes of territory for little reason are not really covered by this.

This tells a lot. Basically you are unhappy with the imperialistic tendencies of the nations within the Earths. Got conquered?

But I still don't understand the off-site comment. Basically you only see the NS side of each nation, which we've affirmed already. But I still don't understand the off-site comment.
I view Earth II as a side RP, as you have to own territory there to RP there (not true of Earth III) and it is also subject to other strict rules not typical of NS freeform RP.

I view Earth II as a side RP, as you have to own territory there to RP there (not true of Earth III) and it is also subject to other strict rules not typical of NS freeform RP.

Naturally you have to own territory on a planet or RP on the planet, so to speak. But we do not 100% limit people as I said we allow people to RP as groups and this and that. But we do not put rules on RP'ing except the whole no ignoring for useless reasons, spawned from incidents.

I view Earth II as a side RP, as you have to own territory there to RP there (not true of Earth III) and it is also subject to other strict rules not typical of NS freeform RP.
Re-read. You don't rebut my points, you merely brush them aside.

See, I've had a problem with all these Earths for a while now, and I'm probably the only one who remembers why the original three or so were created. Penis envy. All these n00b nations jumped on the Earth xxx bandwagon because they wanted RL territory yet nations a hell of a lot older and more powerful than they had already snapped in up way back in late 2002/early 2003.

Re-read. You don't rebut my points, you merely brush them aside.

I brush them aside? So I guess that "Naturally you have to own territory on a planet or RP on the planet, so to speak. But we do not 100% limit people as I said we allow people to RP as groups and this and that. But we do not put rules on RP'ing except the whole no ignoring for useless reasons, spawned from incidents" does not answer "you have to own territory there to RP there" or "it is also subject to other strict rules not typical of NS freeform RP."

You realize how little sense you make, no? You want the simple version. E2 is a closed RP. There you go. That's the general jist of it.

*Joins with Preatonia's Revolution*
I started off this revloution, welcome to the crew Pentoria.

"Pentoria"? That's the worst spelling of my name I've ever seen. :) But thankyou.

You realize how little sense you make, no? You want the simple version. E2 is a closed RP. There you go. That's the general jist of it.
Don't patronise me. I no longer have the energy to discuss this with you. I've made my points, and you've largely ignored them or restated facts rather than attempted to argue my opinions.

"Pentoria"? That's the worst spelling of my name I've ever seen. :) But thankyou.


Don't patronise me. I no longer have the energy to discuss this with you. I've made my points, and you've largely ignored them or restated facts rather than attempted to argue my opinions.

I have tried to figure out just what you meant by off-site. Now that you realize I've pinned you, you are going to leave the argument but not before you once again throw the burden of proof on me. So I'll grant you request and leave it be but just subtly point to all of the things I've said about you being annoyed with imperialism on Earths, that you can't play in Earth, and so on and so fourth. I know it's like being kicked out of the sandbox when you were younger but this is far less detremental. Have a good day.

I've made myself quite clear what I mean by "off-site", and if you honestly don't understand then I feel sorry for you. Continue this on AIM if you're really interested.

This

"I know it's like being kicked out of the sandbox when you were younger but this is far less detremental. Have a good day."

is just plain insluting and childish, especially when you know full well that this isn't even about Earth II (I IGNOREd that months ago, even after you said I could join if I wanted to, and not because you gave The Falklands away to someone else). I'm considering adding you to my Jolt Ignore List because of this and other instances (most of them due to your over-inflated ego which pops up all over the place).

Ohwell... and to think, I explain a reasonable way of accepting Earth threads without ignoring the claims completely and all I get is a "Not enough time to repond to your post" despite the fact that you've probably answered with more words to Layarteb arguing the same points over and over again.

I know abuse goes on, but you know it's not the Earth systems which are inherantly abusive, but the players who use them in abusive manners. I remember Scandavian States (who made the passionate speach about how n00bs are copying the original wanky concept) annexing Kuwait because the government "Asked them to", something I found very comical at the time.

RP wise I think there are some really crappy excuses made for some of the imperialism done in these threads... but to be honest I don't mind people annexing other RL nations so long as they don't abuse it to claim their economy and population is better then they are capable of. There are tons of nations whom call themselves an "Empire" when in fact they just started out like everyone else and but the empire building into their history... annexing a NPC nation is pretty much the same.

Providing such annexations aren't used to godmod then they aren't really that important... like I said, Iuthia is the size of Russia so I don't feel the need to increase my empire, but others have various good reasons (even if the method is really flimsy sometimes... I mean "Kuwait just asked us to do it" thats just dire, in anycase the fact of the matter is that they aren't abusing the game too much by doing it. Ultimately their nations are pretty much the same as they were before and the disadvantages of their new land counters whatever they claim to have gained.

I suppose one could ignore the claims on the grounds that it's highly unrealistic that such a nation would given in so easy, or other RP reasons, but personally I just look at it from a stat perspective and only really ignore if the claim annoys the hell out of me for it's stupidity or if it's actually a godmod as they claim more people in their nation and a super economy beyond their listed rating (like RPing Frightening when you're just Good).


Besides all that it's down to preferance... I'm not going to OOC ignore the Earth claims, I'm just going to see them as more territory that the nation has to defend. If you annexed some land miles away from your main nation then you're going to need to defend your claim or risk losing it to others, you're military can only be so many places at once and claiming tons of land only means your stretching your limits. Small nations be warned, it's easier to territory when it isn't all over the place.

Iuthia, I read and understand your post, but it was huge and (no offence intended) unrequested. I'm fine with my current 'policy' and I actually don't have time to respond to a massive post. I'm sorry if this offended you, as it was not intended to do so.

*rollseyes* Really Iuthia, it's almost insulting to even compare the Kuwait situation to anything these people are doing. The primary differences being:

1) It was part of an existing story arc that was up in the air because all the major players had let their nations die out, it was the only real way to end the arc.

2) It didn't come out of nowhere, I'd had peacekeepers in Kuwait for the better part of a century before this even came up. You are aware of the geopolitical concept of Sphere of Influence, yes? I can't see how this isn't so, given that the British Empire practically coined it.

3) Unlike a lot of nations, I feel no real compulsion to claim Kuwaits somewhat pitiful energy resources. For one, I don't use much oil, at least not as a fossil fuel and I only sell enough oil in an NS year to justify the continued operation of the oil fields, and even then to allies. For another, even if I were inclined to crown myself oil barren, without getting into the various geological and economic problems that would stare me in the face when I did, the impact on my economy would be a pinprick. So I don't even bother.

So you see, there really isn't any wank present, Kuwait just sits there and is a convenient setting for the occasional Mid-East RP. Other than that, I have no real use for it.

Hm, given that I haven't read every thread in International Incidents and that it's an old topic (so it's hard to find such threads) I apologise for making that assumption. At the time it looked like many of the other threads which plagued the time and on it's own it was very flimsy.

However, it's understandable that with time and effort a small nation can trust you enough to ask for annexation... if it happened "just like that" like it seemed then I couldn't believe a nation ever doing that, but you say thats not the case then I'll go with that, you're generally not a bad RPer (though some of the comments about how brilliant the Doujin is are a little annoying at times, but thats a pet peave which isn't important) and I imagine I'm just prejudging you.

Still, it's I've seen a lot of threads like it, I just remember ranting about your at the time as it was one of the whole RL things which annoyed me.


General note: I concider the original claims thread by Chellis to be pretty much the same as the Earth threads which followed for perposes of claims... the fact it was first doesn't change the fact I don't concider any RL claims to be the nations they say they are.

Oh and Praetonia, I wasn't so much offended at the lack of a reply, but more that you didn't even make a small statement about the larger post while you spent alot of time arguing a relatively minor point of Off Forum Topics.

Yes, I know what it looked like and even though I would have much prefered to RP out something with Al-Anbar and _Taiwan to settle the issue, they just weren't available.

As for the Doujin, it is a great ship, but it does have its faults and if it weren't for people trying to constantly justify idiotic ways to take them out and then post them for all of NS to see, I'd probably be the first in line to point out the really glaring ones. Anyway, this is a conversation best continued over TG, so if you want to discuss the topic of the Doujin or SDs in general, I'd be more than delighted to do so.

[off topic]Nah, if I want to learn all the weak points of the Doujin I would just ask the guy who designed it. I get on well with The Freethinkers and if he doesn't know how to take down the ship he designed then no one does... personally I don't really like SD class ships as I see them as wasteful for Iuthia's military doctrine, but I don't think the Doujin is a bad ship, though I was annoyed at Doujin's attitude with it.

I just don't like reading how invincible it is being the picky bastard that I am.[/off topic]

Anyways, nevermind. Like you said yourself, Kuwait doesn't mean anything to you and it's just land for perposes of RPing in that region (in a sense, like the base I have in Haven) and even my original point agrees that it's not a problem regardless. So no worries.