NationStates Jolt Archive

I've seen lots of good militaries in factbooks, but I don't understand much about it. For example, mechanized infantry divisions, batallions, regiments, blah blah blah. It just gets so damn confusing. Could someone help me?

Your military is way to big....my whole military is about 20 million with all reserves. You shoouldn't really have more than 30-35 million unless your like a totaltarian opressive government...

OOC: :eek: dang thats a lot of stuff. You must have done a lot of good record keeping...

Your military is way to big....my whole military is about 20 million with all reserves. You shoouldn't really have more than 30-35 million unless your like a totaltarian opressive government...

Ah, but I am a totalitarian oppressive government. :p

Ya..but your simply massive...I mean, the world is about 6 billion people, if you combined every military on Real Life Earth, it wouldn't mount up to that. Just think of supplying 120 million or how much ever you got...That would just crush your economy into pieces.

Ya..but your simply massive...I mean, the world is about 6 billion people, if you combined every military on Real Life Earth, it wouldn't mount up to that. Just think of supplying 120 million or how much ever you got...That would just crush your economy into pieces.

I'll downsize it, then.

I think this will be helpful to you RB.

company is typically the smallest Army element to be given a designation and affiliation with higher headquarters at battalion and brigade level. This alphanumeric and branch designation causes an "element" to become a "unit."

Squad - 9 to 10 soldiers. Typically commanded by a sergeant or staff sergeant, a squad or section is the smallest element in the Army structure, and its size is dependent on its function.

Platoon - 16 to 44 soldiers. A platoon is led by a lieutenant with an NCO as second in command, and consists of two to four squads or sections.

Company - 62 to 190 soldiers. Three to five platoons form a company, which is commanded by a captain with a first sergeant as the commander's principle NCO assistant. An artillery unit of equivalent size is called a battery, and a comparable armored or air cavalry unit is called a troop.

Battalion - 300 to 1,000 soldiers. Four to six companies make up a battalion, which is normally commanded by a lieutenant colonel with a command sergeant major as principle NCO assistant. A battalion is capable of independent operations of limited duration and scope. An armored or air cavalry unit of equivalent size is called a squadron.

Brigade - 3,000 to 5,000 solders. A brigade headquarters commands the tactical operation of two to five organic or attached combat battalions. Normally commanded by a colonel with a command sergeant major as senior NCO, brigades are employed on independent or semi-independent operations. Armored cavalry, ranger and special forces units this size are categorized as regiments or groups.

Division - 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers. Usually consisting of three brigade-sized elements and commanded by a major general, divisions are numbered and assigned missions based on their structures. The division performs major tactical operations for the corps and can conduct sustained battles and engagements.

Corps - 20,000 to 45,000 soldiers. Two to five divisions constitute a corps, which is typically commanded by a lieutenant general. As the deployable level of command required to synchronize and sustain combat operations, the corps provides the framework for multi-national operations.

Army - 50,000 + soliders. Typically commanded by a lieutenant general or higher, an army combines two or more corps. A theater army is the ranking Army component in a unified command, and it has operational and support responsibilities that are assigned by the theater commander in chief. The commander in chief and theater army commander may order formation of a field army to direct operations of assigned corps and divisions. An army group plans and directs campaigns in a theater, and is composed of two or more field armies under a designated commander. Army groups have not been employed by the Army since World War II.

Thanks, Wirraway.

What sizes would people recommend? Could someone 'design' a military for me? I suck at it. :(

Tag - I would write something but I dont know enough!

Oh and check your post RB sorry!

One thing you could do now is organize all that equipment into basic categories like ships, tanks, planes exc. It would make for a much easier read and it would make it easier for you to keep track of things, once you do that you could further break it down into specific classes like MBT, LBT, carriers, frigates exc. It would really help all involved.

ya, this area can be pretty confusing and there's not much info to be found about structures of force and what not. especially ground forces. A good place to learn about this stuff is through some of Tom Clancy's non fiction works (can't think of the names off the top of my head) which are pretty thorough guides to american military doctrine as applies to; an air wing, a carrier battle group, a marine expeditionary force, a tank brigade and many other basic units of The american Military. Your military needs and wants might however be different than Americas. in this case you have to consider in what ways you want it to be different. A more mobile military that deploys faster and cheaper might not have any tanks and instead might equip its infantry better Or a military more focused on fire power might suborn its infantry entirely to supporting armored vehicles. A military focused on defense might spend more money on fixed positions and purpose built equipment while one mor e for conquering might have equipment with a variety of uses and mobile positions. No one can tell you what kind of military you want but reading Tom Clancy's non fiction and maybe getting a subscription to "Jane's" will help you decide how to build what you want

One thing you could do now is organize all that equipment into basic categories like ships, tanks, planes exc. It would make for a much easier read and it would make it easier for you to keep track of things, once you do that you could further break it down into specific classes like MBT, LBT, carriers, frigates exc. It would really help all involved.

Shoot, I don't even remember what half this stuff is, I purchased it so long ago! And I don't know anything about specific classes.

Then just start with the broad ones, go with airplanes, tanks, ships, vehicles(not tanks) from their others can help you put them in more specific classes.

You probably want to scrap most of the stuff too. Having different kinds of equipment makes logistics hell... why do you need over 15 different assault rifles, each taking a different kind of ammunition, each with different parts... youir supply sergeants will have nervous breakdowns.

What I did was decide on a basic divisional strength for each type of unit (i.e. Armored Division, Mechinized Infantry Division, Standard Infantry Division, and now Special Deployment [Cavalry] Division), as well as other units (i.e. Fighter Squadron, Naval Squadron, ect.) and then broke it down from there, taking into account the need for command units, transportation, and artillery / air defense / armored reserves, and attaching those things as I though necessary. What I came up with, I then modified until I though it was decent. Modification is an ongoing process, however, and I cannot stress enough the need for continued updates of military structure.

On a side note, once that is all done (about 3 days of relaxed thinking and work for me), you can begin to actually map out the strength of each of your units on a Divisional or Regimental (I replaced Brigades with the older designation "Regiment") level. That gives your military a distinct feel, and you can actually get rather attached to certain units, like I did with my 11th Armored, 6th Hunting Group (Submarines), and 3rd Carrier Group.

Anyway, enough said.

Thanks, everyone! :)

Why don't you organized you military like the United State does it but you can modify it.

Thanks, R.R.

(OOC: Nice how you kept it all listed like that. I had a similar list, except it was organized into all the individual types of ships, tanks, and the like. From ro-ro type supply ships to what kind of role my jets served in. I had it saved as a word file in my comp, but then came that damn virus...

So will agree that you should get to organizing it now to make things easier.

I think it would have helped if you had things organized from the start, but it's too late now I guess.)

How is the U.S. military 'arranged?' Is there a link to a place where I can see this?

Thanks, Wirraway.

What sizes would people recommend? Could someone 'design' a military for me? I suck at it. :(


I can make a couple of direct suggestions for this, RB, based on long-term strategic wargaming experience outside of Nationstates.

1. STANDARDIZE YOUR GEAR. You don't need ten different infantry rifles, choose one, in a single caliber, to issue to all of the soldiers you have. This simplifies Logistics enormously. Similarly, a single pistol calbire and type-you don't need ten different shells for twenty different weapons-they all work on human beings, so pick a single one.

Main Battle Tanks: Unless you're running an NTC with Opfor simulating different enemies, you don't need that many different tanks. Pick one MBT, and one Light Tank. Dump the rest.

APC's: Pick one or two good designs, get rid of the rest. Remember that most APC designs can be fitted with different kit for different missions. Tyres, Track-plates, and Lube Oil specifications change from chassis to chassis. Pick at most two APC designs and use them, don't buy up every design of AFV just because you've gto the money to-some budget has to go to maintaining what you have, and the recordkeeping is easier.

Helicopters:
One Scout chopper
One Attack chopper
One Utility chopper
One or two heavy-lift choppers. You don't need more designs than that, again, it comes down to what you can maintain and train on.

Artillery:
Pick a main standard gun, and a secondary heavy gun. Pick ONE MLRS system to use. Dump the rest-it's an ammunition and spares issue.

Heavy-Lift transports:
One type of "Short field" transport (C-130, C-17, etc.)
One Midsize (C-141, C-17 size)
One Heavy-Lifter (C-5 size or bigger)
Try to pick designs that are cross-compatible in parts, fuels, etc.

Standardization allows you to trim costs in training, since you know what your troopies are going to be assigned to use.

2. Size
You don't necessarily need Millions or billions of troops. Rule of thumb here is that you size your force to the scale of the opposition you expect to face, and the scale of personnel you can comfortably support. In most Western nations, that's going to be around .01 to .05% of the population in ACTIVE service, with maybe three times that many in National Guard/Reserve formations. This allows you to afford to really Train your actives and reserves, it also allows your budget to handle research into new systems, post-maintenance on basing, and ample ammunition and spare parts reserves for equipment, and provides for "slack" to increase forces if needed.
Remember, this isn't Battletech-your police don't need MBT's and machineguns to maintain order in your cities on a day-to-day basis...

3. Composition.

Every army is, at its core, made up of a man. From the lowest PRivate, you rise in levels of responsibility.
The Private is responsible for himself, and is answerable to all levels above himself.

The next step is the fireteam-this runs from three to five men, depending on what model you're using, but usually a fireteam is commanded by a Corporal, and has two riflemen and a grenadier (the guy with the grenade launcher on his rifle).
From there, the next step, is the Squad, which is two or three fireteams, commanded by a Sgt. (E-5 or equivalent in most armies). The Squad usually has a Machinegunner carrying a GPMG (M-60, FN-Mag, or similar weapon).

Four squads make a Platoon in most western armies. Platoons are led by Officers (Butterbar LT. or Ensign equivalent), a Platoon will have one to three heavy weapons (.50 cal machinegun, Mortar, and/or recoilless rifle/TOW system or equivalent).

Three to four Platoons for a Company, commanded by a Captain or equivalent. The Company is what you might call a "base unit" for larger formations. Companies will usually have a "Weapons Platoon" armed with either bigger support weapons, or more support weapons. Figure anywhere from 90 to 140 men in a Company, depending on how you structured your fireteams, squads, and platoons.

How you structure your companies will determine what you need for things like APC's, support trucks, supply vehicles, etc.

The next step is usually commanded by either a Major, or Lt. Colonel, it's the Battalion, and a battalion may contain as few as two companies, or as many as six, depending on how you decide to slice it. Again, you need to account your supply situation. A larger battalion structure should include not only the Alpha-Bravo-Charlie-Delta line companies, but an HHC, and a Supply/Transport company for maintenance issues.

From Battalion, you get to Regiment or Brigade. At Regimental or Brigade level, you have two to four "Line Battalions", a "Support Battalion", and a "Headquarters Battalion". These units contain the logistical and maintenance apparatus to support your line battalions in the field, as well as the communications infrastructure, and Regimental Supports (ADA and Field Artillery batteries, etc.)
Regiments are commanded by Colonels or equivalent.
As are Brigades in most armies (Brits use a Brigadier for the job, as do some U.S. forces)

Three to five regiments make up a Division, and Divisions include larger, more diverse supporting elements, such as DivArty (Divisional Artillery), Division-level Maintenance (sometimes referred to, incorrectly, as "Depot"), Division-Level Commo battalions, and, of course, Supply and support regiments.
Divisions are ALWAYS commanded by Generals, whether one-star, two-star, or higher.

Above Division level, you get into "Army Groups", and you get Garrison units (Base personnel), true Depot-level maintenance, and even more specialized units (Special Forces groups for instance, Intelligence groups...)
Army Groups generally run three or more Divisions supervised by a higher ranking General officer. They're responsible for "Theatre Level" command in most cases.

Beyond Army Group, you get "General Staff" -what the Pentagon does. Service-wide command, which (fi you're lucky) means coordination with other branches. Branch command is usually four or five-star general equivalent, it's about as high as you can go in a western service without a direct appointment to the Joint Cheifs (Five stars).

I can make a couple of direct suggestions for this, RB, based on long-term strategic wargaming experience outside of Nationstates.

1. STANDARDIZE YOUR GEAR. You don't need ten different infantry rifles, choose one, in a single caliber, to issue to all of the soldiers you have. This simplifies Logistics enormously. Similarly, a single pistol calbire and type-you don't need ten different shells for twenty different weapons-they all work on human beings, so pick a single one.

Main Battle Tanks: Unless you're running an NTC with Opfor simulating different enemies, you don't need that many different tanks. Pick one MBT, and one Light Tank. Dump the rest.

APC's: Pick one or two good designs, get rid of the rest. Remember that most APC designs can be fitted with different kit for different missions. Tyres, Track-plates, and Lube Oil specifications change from chassis to chassis. Pick at most two APC designs and use them, don't buy up every design of AFV just because you've gto the money to-some budget has to go to maintaining what you have, and the recordkeeping is easier.

Helicopters:
One Scout chopper
One Attack chopper
One Utility chopper
One or two heavy-lift choppers. You don't need more designs than that, again, it comes down to what you can maintain and train on.

Artillery:
Pick a main standard gun, and a secondary heavy gun. Pick ONE MLRS system to use. Dump the rest-it's an ammunition and spares issue.

Heavy-Lift transports:
One type of "Short field" transport (C-130, C-17, etc.)
One Midsize (C-141, C-17 size)
One Heavy-Lifter (C-5 size or bigger)
Try to pick designs that are cross-compatible in parts, fuels, etc.

Standardization allows you to trim costs in training, since you know what your troopies are going to be assigned to use.

2. Size
You don't necessarily need Millions or billions of troops. Rule of thumb here is that you size your force to the scale of the opposition you expect to face, and the scale of personnel you can comfortably support. In most Western nations, that's going to be around .01 to .05% of the population in ACTIVE service, with maybe three times that many in National Guard/Reserve formations. This allows you to afford to really Train your actives and reserves, it also allows your budget to handle research into new systems, post-maintenance on basing, and ample ammunition and spare parts reserves for equipment, and provides for "slack" to increase forces if needed.
Remember, this isn't Battletech-your police don't need MBT's and machineguns to maintain order in your cities on a day-to-day basis...

3. Composition.

Every army is, at its core, made up of a man. From the lowest PRivate, you rise in levels of responsibility.
The Private is responsible for himself, and is answerable to all levels above himself.

The next step is the fireteam-this runs from three to five men, depending on what model you're using, but usually a fireteam is commanded by a Corporal, and has two riflemen and a grenadier (the guy with the grenade launcher on his rifle).
From there, the next step, is the Squad, which is two or three fireteams, commanded by a Sgt. (E-5 or equivalent in most armies). The Squad usually has a Machinegunner carrying a GPMG (M-60, FN-Mag, or similar weapon).

Four squads make a Platoon in most western armies. Platoons are led by Officers (Butterbar LT. or Ensign equivalent), a Platoon will have one to three heavy weapons (.50 cal machinegun, Mortar, and/or recoilless rifle/TOW system or equivalent).

Three to four Platoons for a Company, commanded by a Captain or equivalent. The Company is what you might call a "base unit" for larger formations. Companies will usually have a "Weapons Platoon" armed with either bigger support weapons, or more support weapons. Figure anywhere from 90 to 140 men in a Company, depending on how you structured your fireteams, squads, and platoons.

How you structure your companies will determine what you need for things like APC's, support trucks, supply vehicles, etc.

The next step is usually commanded by either a Major, or Lt. Colonel, it's the Battalion, and a battalion may contain as few as two companies, or as many as six, depending on how you decide to slice it. Again, you need to account your supply situation. A larger battalion structure should include not only the Alpha-Bravo-Charlie-Delta line companies, but an HHC, and a Supply/Transport company for maintenance issues.

From Battalion, you get to Regiment or Brigade. At Regimental or Brigade level, you have two to four "Line Battalions", a "Support Battalion", and a "Headquarters Battalion". These units contain the logistical and maintenance apparatus to support your line battalions in the field, as well as the communications infrastructure, and Regimental Supports (ADA and Field Artillery batteries, etc.)
Regiments are commanded by Colonels or equivalent.
As are Brigades in most armies (Brits use a Brigadier for the job, as do some U.S. forces)

Three to five regiments make up a Division, and Divisions include larger, more diverse supporting elements, such as DivArty (Divisional Artillery), Division-level Maintenance (sometimes referred to, incorrectly, as "Depot"), Division-Level Commo battalions, and, of course, Supply and support regiments.
Divisions are ALWAYS commanded by Generals, whether one-star, two-star, or higher.

Above Division level, you get into "Army Groups", and you get Garrison units (Base personnel), true Depot-level maintenance, and even more specialized units (Special Forces groups for instance, Intelligence groups...)
Army Groups generally run three or more Divisions supervised by a higher ranking General officer. They're responsible for "Theatre Level" command in most cases.

Beyond Army Group, you get "General Staff" -what the Pentagon does. Service-wide command, which (fi you're lucky) means coordination with other branches. Branch command is usually four or five-star general equivalent, it's about as high as you can go in a western service without a direct appointment to the Joint Cheifs (Five stars).

That was extremely helpful. I'll get to work right away. Thanks a lot!

I would agree - since you are a totalitarian government, you should keep your military at around 30 million, and at the same time simplify your logistics as Cadillac-Gage did by using only one type of rifle, maybe two or three sidearm types and two types of SMGs / MGs etc etc.

How big should my navy and air force be?

My navy's at around 1.1 million people TOTAL. Air force is around 3-4 million. You're about the same size as me, so I would look to make those military branches around that number as well.

My navy's at around 1.1 million people TOTAL. Air force is around 3-4 million. You're about the same size as me, so I would look to make those military branches around that number as well.

How many ships, submarines, et. al. should the navy have?

RB, here's my navy as an example

Pacitalian Naval Forces (PNF)

Aircraft carriers
42 Liberta-2 class - Crew: 126,630 (42 x 3,015)
6 Surrati class - Crew: 16,680 (6 x 2,780)

Battle carriers
8 Fendati class - Crew: 12,536 (8 x 1,567)
6 Karmatos class - Crew: 7,064 (6 x 1,174)

Light aircraft carriers
12 Mercatorio class - Crew: 25,500 (12 x 2,125)

Guided missile submarines
6 Operati class - Crew: 1,032 (6 x 172)
Currently in production: 4

Ballistic missile submarines
12 Plattorio class - Crew: 4,248 (12 x 354)
Currently in production: 6

Attack-and-Conquer (normal-type) submarines
64 Mabberati class - Crew: 7,680 (64 x 120)

Universal dual-man recon submarines
220 Neftaxo class - Crew: 440 (220 x 2)

Amphibious support ships
8 Rebolotto class - Crew: 9,600 (8 x 1,200)

Amphibious transport docks
20 Aphroditis class - Crew: 8,600 (20 x 430)

New Generation Battleships
10 Hectoris class - Crew: 11,600 (10 x 1,160)
6 Vanafera class - Crew: 6,210 (6 x 1,035)
Currently in production: 6, 4

Battlecruisers
18 Fermentis class - Crew: 20,142 (18 x 1,119)

Remote Authority Cruisers
150 Safeguard class - Crew: 50,250 (150 x 335)

Remote Authority Destroyers
216 Shield class - Crew: 12,096 (216 x 56)

Frigates
50 Parlemento class - Crew: 49,250 (50 x 985)
Currently in production: 4 (4 more after July 2005)

Support vessels
21 Assistenza class - Crew: 6,846 (21 x 326)
54 Regeneration class - Crew: 23,760 (54 x 440)
8 Embarcato class - Crew: 14,496 (8 x 1,812)

Active personnel: 369,558
Active fleet: 717 (excludes two-man submarines)
Craft in production: 28

Active support personnel: 558,898 (excludes crew listed in Support Vessels)
Including support vessels: 604,000
Reserve personnel: 156,000 (increase to at least 200,000 by May 2005)
Civilian personnel: 21,250

Total Naval Forces Personnel: 1,150,808

How many ships, submarines, et. al. should the navy have?

With a nation your size, a better question is "How many ships do you want your navy to have?"

Thanks, Tim! :)

De nada, señor. ;)

De nada, señor. ;)

:confused:

Oh, um, it means don't mention it or you're welcome in Spanish. ;)

Oh, um, it means don't mention it or you're welcome in Spanish. ;)

Ah, okay. :p

How big should my navy and air force be?
Your air-force should be big enough to provide both Air-Superiority, and Close-Air-Support to your Army. Depending on how tightly you hold to the "Air-Land Battle Doctrine" (See: FAS.Org, or Strategypage.com for details), it can be as small as 2/3 the size of your Army, or as large as 2x your army-depending on what you're after for effects. Remember that in an Airforce, most often, the combatant is an Officer, and the Enlisted are purely for support functions. (maintenance, supply, and Airbase Security).

Your Navy should be (given the number of Islands in your territory, and the extent of coastline) bigger than your army, and it should include a "Marine Corps" force roughly 1/4 the size of your Army. Marines should just about ALWAYS be better-trained in light infantry functions than run-of-the-mill soldiers.

Back when I had a... different... nationstates nation, I worked up a proportional layout. (This was back over a year ago, before I had to drop it due to RL concerns.) Nuevo Kowloon used a Carrier-group as the core unit.

This consisted of a proportional setup:

1 Aircraft Carrier
2 LCAC (baby or Helo carriers)
2 Battleships/Heavy Cruisers
5 Cruisers
10 Destroyers
20 Frigates
5 Submarines/Attack
1 Submarine/Ballistic Missile
5 Full-Service UNREP ships
5 Sub Tenders
2 Aircraft Tenders
5 Oilers

59 ships per "Battlegroup" and five Battlegroups per "Fleet" unit.

I stuck to single-types for each weightclass, in part to simplify (again) training and supply costs, and I stuck to "Generalist" designs that can carry out multiple missions, rather than having an assload of specialist designs that would require rare or infrequent parts be manufactured for battledamage repair.
Then again, I was also playing Nuevo Kowloon as being a bunch of budget-minded skinflints who dug into their territory like moles.

For your purposes, I'd say figure on putting an emphasis on supporting elements (UnRep, Oiler, and Tenders) to give your navy a touch of "Redundant support", given that a nation your size is likely to find its support elements targeted by enemies during wartime, and you can afford it.
Good areas to look for RL naval organization are Strategypage.com, U.S. Navy .Gov, and FAS.Org (military Analysis Network)

Thanks a lot!

I use Teh Ninjas storefront, sorts it all out for different divisions, for navy and AF i have no idea

If you're going to buy out of a Storefront, (or use one for reference) I think Clan Smoke Jaguar has some of the best laid-out available-he really pays attention to a lot of the little details some of the others miss.

IIRC, The Evil Overlord (I think that's his tag) is a U.S. Navy professional, and (I don't know if it still exists) there were some good articles on a board called "Roleplay University" that was run by Wolfish, TEO, and a couple other long-termers. I dunno if it's still about or not, but they had some good articles and examples on that board of not only how to set up and organize your Nationstate Military, but how to RP a believeable deployment, conflict, and war.

I tried to follow my military organisation by taking the best parts of american and british organisation.

1 Army - Your army should have a base unit - either battalion or regiment size. This gives you the flexibility to organise divisions or corps according to a needed task; the compositions of infantry divisions involved in invading nation or acting as peacekeepers would be greatly different. Also think about your supporting units. Not just logistics either - youll need MPs, Engineers, Transport, Medics, NCRB (Nuclear, Chemical and Biological), JAG (Judge Advocate General), military intelligence, the list is endless.

2 Air Force - Is it defensive or offensive? Defensive would be fighter based. If they have an army support role then you shpuld organise lots of small units of fighter-bombers to support your troops. An offensive airforce would hold large wings of strategic bombers. Also, are your ICBMs under airforce command or do they have theri own branch of the military (the US keeps their land based ICBMs under airforce command and their "Boomer" based ICBMs under Navy command - the Soviets had the "Strategic Rocket Command", ostensibly independent of other branches of the military). A good idea is to base your defensive airforce units along geographical lines. The airforce also needs MPs etc, just like the army.

3 Navy and Marines - Your Marines size can vary greatly. The US Marine Corps, I believe, is about 20% size of the US army. The Royal Marines however are only about 5% size of the British Army. It all depends on just how elite they are. Your navy, however is probably where you can be the most inventive. Naval organisation is all about geographic needs and you can pretty much make it up according to your (or your enemies) geographic position. As a basic rule, however, try to seperate Aircraft Carriers and battleships - I've done this by formeing my navy into seperate "Air Carrier Groups" and "Battle Groups".

If you want to see my military visit www.freewebs.com/colonyofollieland.

As a basic rule, however, try to seperate Aircraft Carriers and battleships - I've done this by formeing my navy into seperate "Air Carrier Groups" and "Battle Groups".
OOC: Not a very good idea. A battleship without aircover will die to bombers. A battleship with aircover will, all else being equal, always beat a pure Carrier Battle Group. If you look at history, the majority of the worst battleship losses to airpower in WWII came when they were unescorted by aircraft carriers.

A fair point, but nowadays (in RL at least) the modern battleship is practically redundent - perhaps because of this very reason. When I first started out on NS I was surprised that so many nations seem to want large amounts of battleships, but I guess its a prestige thing.

A fair point, but nowadays (in RL at least) the modern battleship is practically redundent - perhaps because of this very reason. When I first started out on NS I was surprised that so many nations seem to want large amounts of battleships, but I guess its a prestige thing.

Definitely, though I said screw the prestige. I see submarines as far more useful and prestigious (Silent Service?! Hell yes!), and look at aircraft carriers in a simmilar light. Just remember, have lots of ASW ships and LOTS of escorts!!!

RB, send me a TG, I can outfit your army with all standardized equipment used by me and our usual group of allies (GE, Parth, ect.)

RB, send me a TG, I can outfit your army with all standardized equipment used by me and our usual group of allies (GE, Parth, ect.)

Thanks!

I say you should build your military on a real life country that's about the same as yours so id say North Korea because your people believe your god so you can send lot's of infantry to die and they will love you for it oh yes and you can sell me stuff you don't want (because I care ;) )

A fair point, but nowadays (in RL at least) the modern battleship is practically redundent - perhaps because of this very reason. When I first started out on NS I was surprised that so many nations seem to want large amounts of battleships, but I guess its a prestige thing.
Battleships are useful in a support role. Very little can damage them, especially if they have adequate air-cover, and they're also the cheapest and most effective way of providing shore bombardment. They have fallen out of fashion in RL militaries mainly because they're so expensive, and no one sees the reason to build them since the only navy with some (mothballed) battleships is the US navy. I'd advise RB to have 1 or 2 in his fleets, but not go overboard, and give them a carrier for aircover.

Battleships are useful in a support role. Very little can damage them

Bollocks. Even the belt armour of the Iowa's are somewhat vulnerable to the latest supersonic AShM's, but what you guys miss is that the AShM won't hit the belt in its flight profile. The citadel is pretty well defended against most threats, but since most "super-dreads" prevalent in NS like to place all manner of explosive devices outside the armoured envelope all you need is to detonate an exterior magazine and watch the chain reaction.

If you have to rely on active defensive systems to stopping attacks, why bother with armour at all? And then you're better of with fewer smaller plattforms anyway, the loss of a ship won't be as critical and you can be in more places at the same time while performing f e sea control missions.

especially if they have adequate air-cover,

Like, oh lets say a dingy is hard to nail if it has "adequate" air cover?

[QUOTE]
1) ...they're also the cheapest and most effective way of providing shore bombardment. They have fallen out of fashion in RL militaries mainly because they're so expensive

Hmmm...

Contradiction right there... cheapest and to expensive?

and no one sees the reason to build them since the only navy with some (mothballed) battleships is the US navy. I'd advise RB to have 1 or 2 in his fleets, but not go overboard, and give them a carrier for aircover.

So what is essentially a dedicated NGFS platform should "be given" a carrier task force as "support"? Talk about wasting resources...

Sort of like giving a tank platoon a motorized rifle division for support.

Is it common to place the cart in front of the horse in your neighbourhood? ;)

Bollocks. Even the belt armour of the Iowa's are somewhat vulnerable to the latest supersonic AShM's, but what you guys miss is that the AShM won't hit the belt in its flight profile. The citadel is pretty well defended against most threats, but since most "super-dreads" prevalent in NS like to place all manner of explosive devices outside the armoured envelope all you need is to detonate an exterior magazine and watch the chain reaction.

If you have to rely on active defensive systems to stopping attacks, why bother with armour at all? And then you're better of with fewer smaller plattforms anyway, the loss of a ship won't be as critical and you can be in more places at the same time while performing f e sea control missions.

??? You go off on a tangent a little here... well a lot. Not entirely sure now to respond, especially as I didnt refer once to SDs, or to active defence systems, or to any specific design as you appear to be refering.

especially if they have adequate air-cover,

Like, oh lets say a dingy is hard to nail if it has "adequate" air cover?

Well from the air yes, on the other hand what combat value does a Dingy have? I dont know why Im insulting my own intelligence by responding to this bit.

Contradiction right there... cheapest and to expensive?

The ships themselves are expensive, shells are not nearly as expensive as missiles. It depends what you want. If you're going to need heavy shore bombardment capabilities like, let's say, in the way NS nations do and RL nations don't, then it's worth the extra initial cost and maintainance.

So what is essentially a dedicated NGFS platform should "be given" a carrier task force as "support"? Talk about wasting resources...

Sort of like giving a tank platoon a motorized rifle division for support.

Is it common to place the cart in front of the horse in your neighbourhood? ;)
The idea is that the carrier and battleship can support each other. I apologise for wording it slightly incorrectly.

If you must reply to this, could you please be less rude and combative. It isn't at all necessary.

As has been said, sell the many different kinds of weapons, vechicles, and ships. You're a large and wealthy nation, so you can afford to only keep the best. Besides being a logistical nightmare to have so many different weapons and pieces of equipment, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to train your troops with all of that.

Organize your military into units. That's the first step. The unit breakdown as previously mentioned seems right. Another reason it is horrible to have so many different weapons is ammunition production becomes so complicated that your ammo plants will come to a grinding halt. Pick only the best and most advanced weaponry for your troops, and keep a small ammount of various weaponry for Spec Ops, since usually it's important to have enemy weapons for that sort of thing. But for your standardized infantry, one of two main assault weapons.

Modern day combat causes even more infantry casualties, so mechanized infantry is a must. Mechanized means backed by IFVs, so make sure you have plenty of IFVs for that type of war. And make sure you have lots of oil, too. Modern day combat consumes a lot more out of someones economy than non-mech war.

A cheap workaround to thing is to advance your army in waves. Instead of landing all troops first, set up lines with a large enclave of tanks, IFVs, and artillery. It doesn't even have to be a front. First do your attack with a speedier, more svelte attack force. Then move in your non-mech infantry for defensive positions with SAMs and artillery. Though this could be useless to you if you're planning to fight a enemy that has a large defense force that's prepared for you.

Bollocks. Even the belt armour of the Iowa's are somewhat vulnerable to the latest supersonic AShM's, but what you guys miss is that the AShM won't hit the belt in its flight profile. The citadel is pretty well defended against most threats, but since most "super-dreads" prevalent in NS like to place all manner of explosive devices outside the armoured envelope all you need is to detonate an exterior magazine and watch the chain reaction.I call bollocks on your comment. Most of today's missiles are designed to penetrate no more than approximately three to four inches of armour, more than enough to put a hurting on an escort, but not enough to get thorugh the belt armour of an Iowa. It took many, many bombs and torpedoes to sink a Yamato, which admittedly was more heavily armoured than an Iowa.

With the absence of the battleship in today's navy, its specialised role of coastal bombardment has to fall on other, less-protected ships or horrifically expensive sortie after sortie. Sorties and missiles can be shot down or at. A 16 inch, 2,800 pound shell can not be shot down with modern-day technology (as in 2005 RL). Besides that, the battleship has a cachet that no other ship can have. It's why the North Vietnamese refused to negotiate until the Iowa-class battleship off its shores left the area.

I call bollocks on your comment. Most of today's missiles are designed to penetrate no more than approximately three to four inches of armour, more than enough to put a hurting on an escort, but not enough to get thorugh the belt armour of an Iowa. It took many, many bombs and torpedoes to sink a Yamato, which admittedly was more heavily armoured than an Iowa.

With the absence of the battleship in today's navy, its specialised role of coastal bombardment has to fall on other, less-protected ships or horrifically expensive sortie after sortie. Sorties and missiles can be shot down or at. A 16 inch, 2,800 pound shell can not be shot down with modern-day technology (as in 2005 RL). Besides that, the battleship has a cachet that no other ship can have. It's why the North Vietnamese refused to negotiate until the Iowa-class battleship off its shores left the area.

Not entirely true Sarz.. tests have shown CIWS can intercept 8" shells. Whether it can do it reliably and repeatedly is the question

And footpads, citadel armour on many WWII battleships was actually heavier than main belt armour. And yes, many magazines are placed outside the main armour section, like VLS tuibes. So what? If they're hit, they vent upwards and limit damage to the ship. When it comes to shear damage resistance, BBs are the way to go... Bismark was hit by hundreds of large caliber shells and still had to be put down with a salvo of torpedos.

Well, as I'm known through the world at war community as the logistical freek I will give you my two cents...

My military has a logistical ration of 7:1 (7 logistical personnel per one front line personnel) and my personal belief is that one million man armies are unrealistic...but meh, everyone else does it so sometimes I mobilize 1 million + armies also..but as a whole I don't think it's realistic...but here's my thread on logistics:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393153

Keeping an multi-million man army isn't unrealistic (and in fact, I do too with active and reserve services combined - including the support elements of course) for a multi-billion population nation with a Frightening economy, it's just that mobilizing 1 million army in a modern warfare environment is extremely difficult, especially considering the greater logistical demands, which can but is not limited to things such as spare parts (yes, even your computers needs spare parts), fuel (modern vehicle requires a lot more fuel), ammunition (keep in mind that 88mm and 75mm shells are still lighter than something like a 120mm or 140mm shell), and replacements (for example, a P-51 or a FW-190 is still much more easier to manufacture than something like a F-15). IIRC (though not very precise) the amount of fuel used by one armoured corps in Operation Desert Storm equals to the amount of fuel used by the entire tank force in Operation Overlord (within a set period of time of course).

I read an article concerning the replacement of the Abrams gasoline engines to diesel engines and the author claims that an entire armored brigade, or perhaps a division, the exact number fades in my mind, but in any case...the entire armored brigade/division/whatever ran out of the fuel during the flanking operation which marked the allied attempt to sorround and destroy the Iraqi units in Southern Iraq and Kuwait. The implications are rather obvious. It allowed many of the Iraqi units to escape northwards... so yes, fuel does play a major part.

Moreover, the more differentiation you have within your units. Meaning, if one artillery brigade uses 155mm guns, and the other uses 200mm guns, and the other uses 75mm guns, and then another one uses a 155mm gun but of different make, that mean's you're going to have to supply four different types of shells. Standardization is always a plus! Especially when it comes to maintenance on the battle field.

my personal belief is that one million man armies are unrealistic
Germany had a 4 million man army before WWI.

theres not really a nuke called the peacekeeper is there?

Yep. The Peacekeeper MX is the biggest Nuke ever made. It could toast an entire 3rd world country. I think there's some data about it at http://www.globalsecurity.org

Germany had a 4 million man army before WWI.

And three million during the Second World War. However, with expanding technology maintenance becomes much more expensive. Post-Korea the United States has never deployed an army of over three hundred thousand souls...with an 11:1 logistical ratio (according to Agnosticium, a Sergeant).

And three million during the Second World War. However, with expanding technology maintenance becomes much more expensive. Post-Korea the United States has never deployed an army of over three hundred thousand souls...with an 11:1 logistical ratio (according to Agnosticium, a Sergeant).

Vietnam. Johnson's escalation after Kennedy's assassination was 600,000. (a Total of around two million Americans served in Vietnam over a ten year period, but the high water mark was at 600,000 in 1964)

Scaling for Nationstates (where the armies are huge) 3.3Billion can support a million-man army...but why? Roach Busters' territorial claims (on the various map threads) indicate a greater need for a big Navy than extensive ground-force army. Long coastlines, island possessions, and a major gulf encircled on both sides compared to a relatively short landward border with natural obstacles. Maintaining around 10% of your capable maximum (around 100,000 in peacetime per million you could field), but maintain a larger than you need Logistical structure, means (with the use of a 'deep reserve') you can raise a large army quickly if you need to- but you don't have to maintain millions of soldiers when they aren't absolutely needed.

Well, what I mean is frontline personnel, not counting logistics. Taking in mind logistics I wouldn't mind someone having an army of ten million, because that would be just under a million front line troops with about nine million logistical personnel... even a 4:1 ratio would be fine to me..but I don't agree with 1:1 ratios or 2:1 ratios..it's just not very realistic.

Of the 600,000 soldiers actually present in Vietnam the U.S. had anywhere from a 4:1 ratio to a 5:1 ratio, making actual front line personnel much fewer than that.

And three million during the Second World War. However, with expanding technology maintenance becomes much more expensive. Post-Korea the United States has never deployed an army of over three hundred thousand souls...with an 11:1 logistical ratio (according to Agnosticium, a Sergeant).
And how much bigger are NS nations? Also, how many actual major wars has the US fought post-Korea? There are Vietnam, which was very different to anything that had come before (which is probably why the US lost)... but no more large-scale European-style wars. NS is very different to RL, despite being set in the same epoch of technological development, and although a lot of people do take ti to extremes, a 1 million man army is by no means out of the question.

Yep. The Peacekeeper MX is the biggest Nuke ever made. It could toast an entire 3rd world country. I think there's some data about it at http://www.globalsecurity.org

The Peacekeeper MX, is firstly a missile and not in itself a warhead, can carry eleven Mk21 re-entry vehicles of 300kt each. The largest warhead(nuke) constructed was, taking in to account varying sources, between 45 - 60 MT.

The B83 strategic bomb, currently in service with the USAF, has a maximum yield of 1.2 MT, though is capable of a much lower yield.

So much for toasting an entire third world country.

Well, what I mean is frontline personnel, not counting logistics. Taking in mind logistics I wouldn't mind someone having an army of ten million, because that would be just under a million front line troops with about nine million logistical personnel... even a 4:1 ratio would be fine to me..but I don't agree with 1:1 ratios or 2:1 ratios..it's just not very realistic.

Of the 600,000 soldiers actually present in Vietnam the U.S. had anywhere from a 4:1 ratio to a 5:1 ratio, making actual front line personnel much fewer than that.

quite true. I personally think a 10:1 ratio is about ideal for supporting cast to frontline combatants. That's because it's actually about twice what you need, which gives you a reserve to throw in if you're being creamed, and gives you a bit of redundancy should some of your rear-areas get hit with something narsty.

I've seen lots of good militaries in factbooks, but I don't understand much about it. For example, mechanized infantry divisions, batallions, regiments, blah blah blah. It just gets so damn confusing. Could someone help me? Oh yeah, here are all my military things (and before anyone screams, 'godmod!' I would remind them that I legitimately purchased everything on this list):

Military Weapons
Arcus 94 9mm x100,000
Steyr-Manlicher SSG-P1 .308 X100,000
VSS 'Vintorez' Silenced 9x39 SP-5 and SP-6 Subsonic Cartridges X100,000
Steyr Scout .308 X100,000
Erma SR-100 .338 X100,000
HK USA MX29 .223 & 20mm Grenade Launcher X10,000
HK G41 .223 X50,000
Frenchi Spas-15 12 Gauge Semi Auto X25,000
AMP Technical Services DSR-1 .338 Lapua Magnum X50,000
HK GMG (Grenade Machine Gun) 40mm X10,000
RPO-A launchers X500,000
RPG-29 launchers X750,000
AV-96/AVU-96 X1,000,000
TM-93A tactical assault weapons X500,000
40mm Multi-purpose Grenade Launcher X1,000,000
Desert Eagle .50 Magnum pistol X10,000,000 w/100,000,000 spare magazines
Steyr-Aug assault rifle X10,000,000 w/100,000,000 spare magazines
H&K USP Expert X1,000,000
M9 9 mm Beretta Pistol X1,000,000
Kalashnikov AK-47 X1,000,000
Kalashnikov AK-74 - w/Under barrel 6GD15 Grenade Launcher X1,000,000
Kalashnikov AK-74M X1,000,000
M4 Carbine - w/Under barrel 40mm Grenade Launcher X1,000,000
7.62mm SVDS Dragunov Sniper Rifle X1,000,000
Kalashnikov AKS-74U X1,000,000
M-22 Military/Law Enforcement Assault Rifle X100,000
HR-42 Selectable Assault Battle Rifle x10,000,000
H50 Heavy Machine Gun x1,000,000
HSR-40A Sniper Rifle x5,000
H-4 Light Machine Gun x500,000
HSM Submachine Gun x500,000
HG-3 Combat Pistol x100,000
SAR-97 Assault Rifle x10,000
R-12 "Justice" SMG x50,000
AR-22 Heavy Assault Rifle x30,000,000
MG-22 Squad Automatic Weapon/Light Machine-Gun x20,000,000
BLSTR-4 x750,000
Galil Micro Assualt Rifle x1,000,000
Tavor Assault Rifle x1,000,000
Desert Eagle Handgun x10,000,000
Jericho Handgun x7,500,000
M89SR Sniper Rifle x10,000
SR99 Sniper Rifle x10,000
Negev Light Machine Gun x500,000
LSIGW-SAP-02/9 Semi-Automatic Pistol x10,000,000
LSIGW-SMG-02/46 Sub-Machine Gun x10,000,000
LSIGW-AR-04/556 Assault Rifle x10,000,000
LSIGW-SAW-11/556 Squad Automatic Weapon x500,000
CAR-22 Combat Assault Rifle x10,100,000
GIR-37 assault rifle x1,227,000,000
MP-1 PHX "Fearless" Sub-Machine Gun x10,000,000
SR-23 Sniper Rifle x500,000
MP-2 Eviscerator SMG x25,000,000
M27 Lightweight Modular Assault Weapon x5,000,000
AR-22A1Carbine x100,000
SR-22 Sniper Rifle x100,000
MG-22 Squad Automatic Weapon/Light Machine-Gun x100,000
CAR-24 Combat Assault Rifle x100,000
AR-28 Assault Rifle x100,000
AR-47 Assault Rifle x100,000
AR-56 Assault Rifle x100,000
RAR-7G Grenade Launcher x1,500,000
SR-080 "Patriarch" sniper rifle x10,000,000
SR-092 "Deimos" sniper rifle x100,000,000
RAR-7HM x1,000,000
RAR-7HS x1,000,000
RAR-7M x1,000,000
RAR-7S x1,000,000
RAR-7K x1,000,000
RAR-7C x1,000,000
RCR-41 Sniper Rifle (w/scopes and silencers added) x5,000,000 w/10,000,000,000 rounds of ammunition
AR-42 "Locke" x10,000,000
M95S Heavy Sniper Rifle x10,000,000
SR-90A1 Next Generation Assault Rifle x10,000,000
M85IG SubMachineGun x10,000,000
B/SP-771 Battle Pistol x10,000,000
45-X Bolt Action x500,000

Nuclear Weapons
LGM-56A Apocalyptic Fury Theatre Ballistic Missile launcher X100
Apocalyptic Fury Theatre Ballistic Missiles X100,000
Dirty bomb X50
Atomic bomb X10
'Hellas IV' Thermonuclear Bomb X3
AGM-131 SRAM 2 x100,000
AGM-129 ACM x100,000
B83 (Short range gravity bomb) x100,000
B61 (Short range gravity bomb) x100,000
LGM-30 Minuteman III x10,000
LGM-118A Peacekeeper x10,000

Chemical/Biological Weapons
Anthrax X100 kilograms
Mustard gas X1,000 kilograms
VX nerve gas X100 kilograms
Gabon nerve gas X100 kilograms
Rabies virus x1,000,000 kilograms
Soman (GD) Nerve Agent x2,000 tons
Phosgene (CG) Pulmonary/Choking Agent x2,000 tons
Nitrogen Mustard (HN-2) Blister Agent x2,000 tons
Mustard/Lewisite (HL) Blister Agent (Mixture) x2,000 tons
Lewisite (L) Blister Agent x2,000 tons
Hydrogen Cyanide (AC) Blood Agent x2,000 tons
Tabun (GA) Nerve Agent x2,000 tons
GB-Nerve/Sarin Gas x2,000 tons
VX Nerve Agent x2,000 tons
Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever x1,000,000 vials
Rift Valley Fever x1,000,000 vials
Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis x1,000,000 vials

Non-Nuclear Missiles
'Famistocles' Class Cruise Missile x10,000
Yellow Jacket mini-SAM x1,000,000
GWS.58 Hurricane multi-purpose SAM x100,000
BGM-109 Tomahawk Cruise Missile x1,000,000
P-700 3M-45 Granat x1,000,000
TSM-2 Hawk x1,000,000
TSM-1 Falcon x1,000,000
LRASM-50(Long Range Anti-Surface Missile) x100,000

Misc. Weapons
Claymore mine x10,000,000
Anti-Tank Mine x10,000,000

Military Vehicles
apocalypse Class Fleet Carrier X6
Zumwalt Class Destroyer (with nuclear fusion reactors) X100
Virginia Class Fast Attack Submarine X250
The SFF-53 "Black Falcon" X1,000
SFF-59 "Striker" Light Fighter Bomber X1,000
SFF-77 X10
SFVA-3 "Tank Buster" X1,000
Raven Multi-Role Fighter X4,000
Top-of-the-line ECF Battle Ship X1
LSIF05 Mongoose MkII X100,000
LSUFV-02 Bulldog A X1,000,000
LSHA-01 Tenoth Tank X750
LSSH-01 Crow X500
LSAI-12 Rain X400
LSAF-05 Duelist X400
LSAF-07 Horror X250
LSAF-11 Abaddon X1,000
Astute class submarines X10,000
Super Cobra attack helicopter X5,000
Lepard 2 tanks X500
Challenger tanks X1,000
Mole Mega fighter X10,000
Mole assault boat X10,000
Mole average fighter X100,000
Industrial freighter X1,000
Escort carrier X1,000
Strike crusier X10,000
AC-10 "Rockhopper Penguin" Attack Helicopter X1,000
AC-20 "Penguin" Attack Helicopter: X1,000
AC-50 "Emperor Penguin" Attack Helicopter: X1,000
AC-70 "Mountain Penguin" Scout-Attack Helicopter: X1,000
TC-1000 "Madison" Heavy Transport Helicopter: 1,000
TC-2000 "Dark Nova" Heavy Assault Transport Helicopter: X1,000
HHT-3 Roosevelt Heavy Main Battle Tank: X750
HLT-20 Portland Armored Reconnaisance Vehicle/Light Tank: X1,500
HLT-20 Portland Armored Air Defense Vehicle: X1,500
HHT-1X Chamberlain Ultra Heavy Main Battle Tank/Howitzer: X500
Magistrate 2 Heavy Artillery/ Nuclear Artillery Cannon: X1,000
Brautwurst Heavy Infantry Gun: X1,000,000
F-14 Tomcat X1,000
F-16 Fighting Falcon X10,000
B-2 Spirit X100
A-4 Skyhawk X10,000
UH-60 Blackhawk X10,000
Rah-66 Comanche X10,000
CH-47 Chinook X25,000
CH-53 Sea Stallion X10,000
Tyrant-class Battleships X10
Tesla Trooper X10,000,000
UltorClass Battleship/Carrier X10
Blue Thunder Class Choppers X10,000
Payton Class Battlecruiser X100
M1A4 "King Abrams" X10,000
Calypso-class Dreadnaught X1
Freedom-Class Trimaran Pocket Super-Dreadnaught – Export Version X1
Volunteer-class battleship (BBN) X4
Alliance-class super cruiser (CB) X10
Ithaca-class light cruiser (CL) X10
SZ-1 "Vulture" fighter aircraft X1,000
F-102 "Numen VI" ZFighter Jet X1,000
F-14D Tomcat X375
DG-77 X1,000
DG-78 X1,000
HOF Defence FV 321 Armoured Personell Carrier X500
F/A-91B "Savage" Multi-Role Aircraft X500
Skyshark SZ-3 X1,000
F3000 “Rapier” Air Superiority Fighter X500
F/A-32 Tomahawk Advanced Tactical Fighter Aircraft X100
W-7 Poseidon Seaplane Strategic Bombers X100
Ohio class submarines X400
Pernicious II Class Improved Heavy Nuclear Carrier x10
Vulpine Class Heavy Nuclear Carrier x30
Quantum Class Amphibious Multi-Role Command Ship x80
Endeavour Class Light Carrier x75
Proxima Class Escort Carrier x100
Texarkana Class Helicopter Carrier x400
Gettysburg Class Guided Missile Battleship x250
Coral Sea Class Guided Missile Light Battleship x500
Valiant Class Battlecruisers x200
Twain Class Coastal Battleship x100
Portland Armored Reconnaisance Vehicle/Light Tank x4,000
Dragoon Infantry Support Tank x1,000
Hannibal Armored Personnel Carrier x1,000
Roosevelt Heavy Main Battle Tank x500
Taft Main Battle Tank x500
Brutus Class Fast Attack Submarine x100
The Bolt Helicopter x1,000
The Black Viper F-65 ZFighter Jet x5,000
"Crimson Sun" F-82 ZFighter Jet x10,000
"Großes Ungeheuer" Strategic Bomber x1,000
Dolphin Class Sub x10,000
Shaldag MKII x15,000
Saar MK-V x10,000
Protector UNPV x35,000
Hyland-Nikolaas EB-15 "Arkbird" Strategic Bomber x75
M113 APC x20,000
Merkava IV MBT x16,000
Merkava III MBT x20,000
Sabra MBT x18,000
Wolf LAV x100,000
Yas’ur 2000 Helicopter x5,000
IPHA- 'Puma' (K) x650
Aquadragon AS Ekranoplan x1,000
Hunter-class Command Battleship x100
AH-4 Zealot Light Attack/Observation Helicopter x10,000
BAH-23 Light Single-Engined Military Helicopter x100,000
Boxcar Class Q-Ship x2,000
TX-14 Attack Helicopter x10,000
SZ-4 'Warbird' Long-Range Strategic Bomber x10,000
SZ-5 'Snarl' Electronics Warfare Aircraft x10,000
SZ-6 'Pegasus' Search and Rescue Helicopter x10,000
AEA-T01A/AEA-T01B x1,000
AEA-T02 x1,000
BRND42 - Roaman Class Destroyer x500
BDRND22 - Superior III Class Guided Missile Destroyer x100
Al-Kafar II Fast Attack Submarine x500
Ratana-Ka II Class Executive Nuclear Submarine x100
AET-02B - Firestorm MBT x10,000
Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle x10,000
AC-130D gunship x100,000
FAVS (Future Armoured Vehicle System) x25,000
Su-36 Imperator aircraft x10,000
T-4 MBT x10,000
IPO-35 Badger Light Scout Vehicle x100,000
QNLC-82 Main Battle Tank x6,000
EM-300 'Pasha' class Guided Missile Destroyer x20
T113 tanks x100,000
T114 Main Battle Drone Tank x1,000
Guderian III tank x10,000
ADMIRAL HOWITZ Class Aircaft Carrier x10
ST-331 x2,500
The Independent helicopter x10,000
B-11 Lacken II x100
F-132 "Amor Patriae" Tactical Fighter/bomber x2,000
F98 "Spike" x10,000
B-9 Sphinx Heavy Strategic Bomber x500
TSF-28 Seraph x10,000
F-45 'Sharkishki' Multi-Role Fighter (Naval Fighter) x10,000
F-45 'Sharkishki' Multi-Role Fighter (Naval Trainer) x10,000
F-45 'Sharkishki' Multi-Role Fighter (Ground Attack) x10,000
Chevy 750 Technical x100,000,000
TSF-28 Air Superiority Fighter x10,000
Arizona BBG x100
Iowa (refit) BBG x100
Payton BCN x100
Cherokee CGN x100
Imperator CGN x100
Kirov CGN x100
Ticonderoga II CG x1,000
Arleigh Burke DDG x1,000
Ilan Ramon DDG x1,000
Kidd DDG x1,000
Scorpion SSN x750
Seawolf SSN x750
Ohio SSGN x250
Wasp II class LHD x200
M151 Multi-Utility Tactical Trucks (MUTT) x100,000
M1078 Standard Cargo Truck x25,000
F-78A x1,000
F-78B Naval Variant x1,000
DC-117A Scimitar Dropship x10,000
R-1255 Urban Combat Vehicle x10,000
Machbet x100,000
Doher x4,000
Illeana Vassili-Class Carrier x100
CVN-68 Nimitz-Class Carrier x100
Seawolf sub x500
SSN-688 Los Angeles-class Sub x100
DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class x10,000
LHD-1 Wasp class Amphibious Assault x10,000
SSBN-726 Ohio-Class FBM Submarines x1,000
Krasina/Slava class Guided Missile Cruiser x1,000
C-71 'Progeny' strategic airlift x4,500
XC-240 'Pallas' Series x10,000
Jack Kordo I Class Carrier x100
New Dublin Class Amphibious ship x1,000
Hawk Class Guided Missile Destroyer x750
Lotam Class Command Battleship x100
VBL2/4 Utility Vehicle- military version x1,000,000
VBL2/4 Utility Vehicle- civilian version (used by medics) x,1,000,000
Canadair CF-24 Falcon x10,000
Divine Thunder TSA-12B x10,000
VTA-68 Lancet Multirole Helicopter x10,000
RVQA-25 Bandit Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles x10,000

Military Vehicle Weapons
The TMLRS "Devestator" (AVRS-2)s x100,000
SS-2 DART Mobile Short Range Ballistic Missile launcher x10,000 +1,000,000 additional missiles

Military Gear
Stormrider APS (Armoured Personal Suit) X1,000,000
Predator body armour X10,000
Tychem TK 645 Chemical Suit x1,000,000
LSI-PPA-05 Tactical Armor x100,000,000
LSI-PPA-03 Concealable Armor x5,000,000
Ballistic/Laser Protective Spectacles x100,000,000
Camoflauge face paint kits x100,000,000
Interim Small Arms Overprotective Vest x100,000,000
Ranger Body Armor x100,000,000
Imperial Guard Urban Assault Combat System x100,000,000


Man, am i glad that you are on my side un the war against Coreys Land

tag

The most important part of designing a military is keeping it simple.

The most important part of designing a military is keeping it simple.

Grenval! Welcome back!

where exactly do you have a military? is it a website or something?

where exactly do you have a military? is it a website or something?

My extremely outdated military is located here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=350672), on this forum.

I'm not officially back Roach-Busters; more like just stopping by.

I'm not officially back Roach-Busters; more like just stopping by.

Damn. :( I was hoping you came back to RP again.

First, I completely disagree with stating an army as being only front line combat troops. Almost all RL army listings you're going to find include all personnel in military service. This includes combat, combat support, combat service support, and service. Failing to list all forces effectively renders the list ineffectual, as the ratio and types of support personnel are far more important in military capability than the front-line combat units. Additionally, support personnel are usually integrated into combat formations. Even as low as the platoon level, one can find attached support units in some militaries, and none have anything larger than a battalion that doesn't have significant support presence.

Okay, end of rant.




As for this particular issue, my recommendation is to work your way up to what you need by answering several questions. Though not necessarily in this order, it should be close.

1) What is the role of my military (commitments, enemies, is it defensive only, or designed for expeditionary operations, etc)?

2) How many personnel, or what percentage of my population, do I want to have in my military? How much or what percentage of my GDP am I willing to spend maintaining it?

3) Is there an RL, or even NS, nation that I wish to model my military after? Yes, mixing and matching is allowed, to an extent.

4_ What equipment do I wish to have in my military? Remember, the smaller the number and diversity of different systems, and the greater the commonality, the better off you are.


If you can answer these questions, I can help create a military that's tailored to your needs. However, I especially need to know, as much as possible, how, who, and where you expect your military to fight.
If you'd like to look at some RL armies, check my thread (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=297064&page=3), which has some extensive posts on various RL militaries on pages 3-5 and 9-13. Come to think of it, I have quite a few more of these in various stages of completion. Maybe I should get around to finishing them . . .