NationStates Jolt Archive

Reference thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378550


Over the past thirty years the Imperial Empire has followed the policy of interning HIV and AIDS patients to prevent them from spreading the disease to Imperial Citizenry. The system has been extremely effective for the first 20 years of operation returning high profits to the Empire from mining operations, but over the past 10 years the program has faced dwindling profits due to dramatic decreases in camp populations and lack of repopulation has forced all camps except for the one to close.

The consolidation of the camps into one improved the financial situation of the program for a few months but the natural attrition rate has once again plunged the program into the red once again. Considering the small number of internees in the prisons and the lack of production from the camps which prevents supplies from being purchased by the camp the Inquisition will begin the final shutdown of the Internment program and begin full scale liquidations of the remaining 175 thousand internees.

It is expected to take 2-3 months for the internees to remove all heavy machinery and useful equipment from the camps and for the Inquisition to shut them down. It will also take another 2-4 weeks to liquidate the detainees.

As of now any further cases of AIDS or HIV will be dealt with liquidation, however a dozen camp sites will stay in place in case there is ever a need to reopen them for either HIV/AIDS patients or any other group it might be necessary to intern for the good of Empire.

OOC: Effective.

a bump in the night.

As always, Farmina applauds all efforts, no matter how extreme, to deal with Satan's plague.
Thomas Goth
Chancellor for Foriegn Affairs

The Imperium mourns the loss of servants of Papa Nurgle, and yet applaud the violent methods taken to ensure purity. Your zealots fire appeases Khorne...
You have gained favor in our eyes.

NSAA cannot officially condone the murder of 175 thousand people and will offer to intern them on our prison islands for the remainder of their lives.

The Immortal Empire applauds this act of rampant genocide; for is it not true? If a limb ceases to function, cut it off. The same applies to the unclean.

A female Yautja mulled over various hunt reports. One caught her eye, and she responded. Her initial message was little more than an excess of clicks and low rumbling growls, but after substantial translation a message could be salvaged.

"Murdering your own kind is the most disgusting crime one could ever commit, and it is why you can never be anything more than animals. The crippled and sick should be able to meet the Black Warrior with honour in their hearts just like the rest of us; their Final Hunt should be glorious. Yet you murder them dishonourably like the animals you are. Your skull would not be worthy of adorning my wall. You are nothing, Soft Meat."

IC:

We congratulate the Imperial Empire on their continuing success in the war against the Satanic Forces that populate the world.

-Imperial Guilder Representative in the Imperial Empire

Congragulations on an excellent policy. Be careful that those liquidating the people infected with this scourge do not contract it.

Sincerely,
James Erwell Brown Stuart
Citizens' Committee for Public Safety

We don't given enough of a damn about you to invade and really don't feel like adding another name to the factbook at the moment.

Blah blah blah don't condone blah blah blah.

There. Message done.

-Dictator Enigma

We would be willing to buy 25,000 of you 'patients' for medical, chemical and biological testing. We would pay 10$ each or 250,000$ for all of them. If this is acceptable the money will be wired, upon order confermation.

I would consider this an act comparable to genocide or ethnic cleansing, and thus falls under the jurisdiction of the UN Resolution on Humanitarian Intervention. I realise you are not a member of the UN, but that is irrelevant as the proposal allows UN members to take the case to a Pretenama Panel to decide whether or not military intervention is justified or not. Should the case be taken up, you will of course be allowed to defend yourself. You'll receive a telegram if that is the case.

http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?showtopic=78&st=0#entry4858788

This is the link to the request for an investigation and intervention in Belem, on the UN Organizations Website.

I would urge anyone opposed to these atrocities to sign up for the committee.

We still have 4 months to stop 175'000 people from being executed.

what is this this lol ? i mean its been done before ... tons of times but in the Rearl world it wont work at all btw ) any who tag.

We will provide a safe, oppression-free home for as many of your patients as possible (Ideally all remaining). Respond via TG or post if you are interested.

After you kill the remaining Patients. I suggest you continue checking more of your people. Just in case.

I would consider this an act comparable to genocide or ethnic cleansing, and thus falls under the jurisdiction of the UN Resolution on Humanitarian Intervention. I realise you are not a member of the UN, but that is irrelevant as the proposal allows UN members to take the case to a Pretenama Panel to decide whether or not military intervention is justified or not. Should the case be taken up, you will of course be allowed to defend yourself. You'll receive a telegram if that is the case.

http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?showtopic=78&st=0#entry4858788

This is the link to the request for an investigation and intervention in Belem, on the UN Organizations Website.

I would urge anyone opposed to these atrocities to sign up for the committee.

We still have 4 months to stop 175'000 people from being executed.

IC:

We demand compensation from Gwenstefani and the UN for genocidal and war mongering actions against the Imperial Guilder Administration.

The receipt of your letter vis-a-vie the Imperial Empire of Belem caused the untimely death of no less than four (faceless) Imperial Guilder Bureaucrats, due to spasmodic fits of laughter caused by your letter. According to post-mortem reports from our Medical personnel, they died of lung and heart internal bleeding and eventual collapse caused by the amount of laughter your notice triggered.

-A much appalled random Guilder Bureaucrat

We would be willing to buy 25,000 of you 'patients' for medical, chemical and biological testing. We would pay 10$ each or 250,000$ for all of them. If this is acceptable the money will be wired, upon order confermation.

Now would you cover the shipping cost of the said test subjects? Since the cost of shipping would be substantially more then the cost of the subjects.

"Hmm... surprising. Wouldn't it be easier just to innoculate your entire poulation against sexually transmitted diseases?"-The Great Leader Li

We will provide a safe, oppression-free home for as many of your patients as possible (Ideally all remaining). Respond via TG or post if you are interested.

How much would you be willing to pay per patient for relocation.

After you kill the remaining Patients. I suggest you continue checking more of your people. Just in case.

Of course. We extensively test citizens and civilians at key points during there lives to make sure they are healthy productive citizens of the Empire.

Now would you cover the shipping cost of the said test subjects? Since the cost of shipping would be substantially more then the cost of the subjects.
We will provide the shipping.

Do not slaughter these people like beasts! Treat them for what they are: happy, feeling, otherwise ordinary people who have been unluckily hit with an illness.

Facts: HIV/AIDS can ONLY be spread by contact with certain bodily fluids. It CANNOT be spread by air or touch.

If you must wash your hands of these innocent people, Rattus Norvegicus 7 will be happy to take them as citizens of our nation.

If you reject this offer, the blood of 175 000 helpless people will be on your hands, and RN7 journalists will be only too happy to break the news to the international, peace-loving community.

The offer is there.

Andrew Fletcher
President

EDIT: We'll take all of them. We will provide the ships.

DOUBLEDIT: We will pay $10 per citizen, coming to 1.75m.

"Hmm... surprising. Wouldn't it be easier just to innoculate your entire poulation against sexually transmitted diseases?"-The Great Leader Li

Of course that will be extremely expensive as most STDs are viruses which constantly mutate making them difficult to innoculate against.

A female Yautja mulled over various hunt reports. One caught her eye, and she responded. Her initial message was little more than an excess of clicks and low rumbling growls, but after substantial translation a message could be salvaged.

"Murdering your own kind is the most disgusting crime one could ever commit, and it is why you can never be anything more than animals. The crippled and sick should be able to meet the Black Warrior with honour in their hearts just like the rest of us; their Final Hunt should be glorious. Yet you murder them dishonourably like the animals you are. Your skull would not be worthy of adorning my wall. You are nothing, Soft Meat."

The Imperial Empire has no knowledge of this "final hunt" and thus is being considered a pagan and heretical practice.

We will provide the shipping.

That is a most acceptable offer. The 25,000 will be prepared for relocation and relocations can begin as soon as you are prepared to do so.

That is a most acceptable offer. The 25,000 will be prepared for relocation and relocations can begin as soon as you are prepared to do so.
Please provide the nearest airport to the internment camp so we may begin transportation. Each plane shall transport 5,000 of the subjects and will carry 50,000$ for the trade.

And for us?

Do not slaughter these people like beasts! Treat them for what they are: happy, feeling, otherwise ordinary people who have been unluckily hit with an illness.

Facts: HIV/AIDS can ONLY be spread by contact with certain bodily fluids. It CANNOT be spread by air or touch.

If you must wash your hands of these innocent people, Rattus Norvegicus 7 will be happy to take them as citizens of our nation.

If you reject this offer, the blood of 175 000 helpless people will be on your hands, and RN7 journalists will be only too happy to break the news to the international, peace-loving community.

The offer is there.

Andrew Fletcher
President

EDIT: We'll take all of them as long as you cover 45% of the shipping costs. We will provide the actual ships.

DOUBLEDIT: We will pay $10 per citizen, coming to 1.75m.

Fact: The certain bodily contacts in which HIV is spread can only be spread through "Inappropiate Actions" such as needle sharing and premaritial and homosexual sex which are illegal under Belem law. They are both criminals and heretics and were spared from the cleansing flame only by the graces of our most compassionate Emperor.

Furthermore we can not in good faith exchange send these non humans(ooc: they had citizen and racial status revoked making them non humans under Belem law,) to not finish the sentences which they were given by the Inquisition.

We also find it insulting that should we of accepted you would of required us to pay shipping costs which would of resulted in a massive loss of profits from the transaction.

The Holy Office of the Inquisition
-Office of External Security

Please provide the nearest airport to the internment camp so we may begin transportation. Each plane shall transport 5,000 of the subjects and will carry 50,000$ for the trade.

Subjects shall be made availible at Internment camp 010 which has an adjoining airfield.

Fact: The certain bodily contacts in which HIV is spread can only be spread through "Inappropiate Actions" such as needle sharing and premaritial and homosexual sex which are illegal under Belem law. They are both criminals and heretics and were spared from the cleansing flame only by the graces of our most compassionate Emperor.

Furthermore we can not in good faith exchange send these non humans(ooc: they had citizen and racial status revoked making them non humans under Belem law,) to not finish the sentences which they were given by the Inquisition.

We also find it insulting that should we of accepted you would of required us to pay shipping costs which would of resulted in a massive loss of profits from the transaction.

The Holy Office of the Inquisition
-Office of External Security

OOC: You seem to have not read the post properly. Either that, or you didn't notice the edits.

IC: You were OK with it in the last exchange, so why are you denying us the transaction now?

ooc: I read the part your paying 1.75 million but requiring belem to pay 45% shipping.

IC: The initial transaction with the good nation of Theao has the internees going to there prescribed fate under Imperial Law. The offer of your nation has them going free and thus avoiding the judgement handed down to them by the Inquisition.

Rattus Norvegicus 7, while Gwenstefani applauds your attempts to save the lives of the Belemese (?) citizens with Aids through the purchase of their freedom, we ask you to consider whether this is the best approach- it may just result in an international and profitable trade in these citizens. Belem should not be rewarded for their actions. Consider joining the Pretenama Panel? TG for more info

ooc: Belemians, belemese, belemites its all acceptable. oh and gwen you mislabelled your first post on that forum you linked to stating the internment camps started in 03 they started in 04.

We will up the price to $100 per patient.

We will not lose hope of saving these poor HUMANS (Belem's law counts for naught when it comes to human lives) and will not rest until they are free.

Imperial Law is quite clear on this matter it states that any non human can be bought, traded or sold for the any purpose including but not limited to slavery, experimentation, entertainment purposes or forced labor HOWEVER no sales can be made should the proposed purpose of the buying party is to grant the non humans rights that would not exist to them under Imperial Law and this circumventing Imperial Justice.

We'd condemn them to a life under the laws of beasts.

OOC: It may take me a while to get back to you.

You at first stated that the they would be free to live happy productive lives and the entire purpose of your attempted purchase of them was to free them from "Belem oppression" now you backpedal and try to conform your purchase order to conform to the word of law in Belem. Your offer is hereby rejected. However in the good will of the Holy Office of the Inquisition our most noble Grand Inquisitor has approved of the sale of ten thousand heads for ten thousand dollars per head, they can be treated as anyway your nation sees fit to deal with the scum.

the bump

Iron Blood would like to purchase the remainder for our system of work camps. We find it more effective to keep them alive and feed them but force them to work for free than to kill them off.

The Empire will enter negiotations with Iron blood immediately for the transfer of the remaining prisoners following the finalization of the previous transactions so that we may be able to properly calculate the amount of internees to be transferred.

No_State_At_All officially condems the actions of those nations who are trading in wrongfully imprisoned people and immediatly bans all products of those nations from NSAA and implements a trade embargo on said nations.

You at first stated that the they would be free to live happy productive lives and the entire purpose of your attempted purchase of them was to free them from "Belem oppression" now you backpedal and try to conform your purchase order to conform to the word of law in Belem. Your offer is hereby rejected. However in the good will of the Holy Office of the Inquisition our most noble Grand Inquisitor has approved of the sale of ten thousand heads for ten thousand dollars per head, they can be treated as anyway your nation sees fit to deal with the scum.

I think it's you who were backpedaling. First you welcomed the deal, asking what price we were willing to pay, then you denied us the transfer so you could satisfy your need to kill thousands of innocent people. Your business about 'non humans' is nothing short of disgusting.

In our nation's general opinion, you can take your 'compassionate leadership' and 'good will of the most noble' and throw them out on the lawn, where you will also find 10'000 heads, returned to sender courtesy of Rattus Norvegicus 7 Postal Service.

No, we didn't pay.

Anyway, we are through with you sick scum. Good day.

David Rose
Interior Affairs Minister

OOC: NOT my OOC view. This has actually been good RP. Keep it up!

We find it most unfortunate that you are unable to do business with us with our very reasonable terms. However if you wish to arrange purchase of the internees between now and liquidation or further sale our offer still stands of 10 thousand per head for ten thousand.

Hey Belem, some by the book hardheads on some off-site UN forum are discussing something about actions against you. Pretty funny stuff, read it here http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?showtopic=78

ooc: i know.

OOC: When you said 'heads' I thought you meant severed heads. My mistake. Sorry.

IC:

We will gladly take the ten thousand people for an initial payment of $99,999,998 with $0.02 paid upon completion. We will provide the transport.

Hey Belem, some by the book hardheads on some off-site UN forum are discussing something about actions against you. Pretty funny stuff, read it here http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?showtopic=78

It's not by the book. Our planned actions are highly controversial within the UN. But we [ie those participating in TPP] believe that genocide is wrong and are willing to go to war to stop it.

OOC: When you said 'heads' I thought you meant severed heads. My mistake. Sorry.

IC:

We will gladly take the ten thousand people for an initial payment of $99,999,998 with $0.02 paid upon completion. We will provide the transport.

ooc: nope counting them like cattle per head.

Most excellent, we will transport them by rail to Trinsic where they can then board your preferred method of travel.

Our preferred mode of travel is by flying boat, since RN7 is an island and the pilots sometimes drink a bit.

We support Belem and other nations who wish to take care of the worldwide AIDS problem. Sure, it's not pretty. But hey, let's get rid of the disease while we can.

Our nation's mainland has 19,000 AIDS and HIV patients. In our international territories, could me a million or two ... mostly Brazilian. Anyone want them for whatever? After this, we can ban anyone with the disease from entering our nation to prevent spoiling the rest.

Our preferred mode of travel is by flying boat, since RN7 is an island and the pilots sometimes drink a bit.


The subjects shall be availible for pick up at your convience.

ooc: Since Belem and RN7 aren't on the most amiable of terms we are of course giving you the sickest 10 thousand of the group.

bump

Well...10'000 is a lot of people. There are bound to be some who are fairly normal, even in the sickest.

Is the deal confirmed?

Yes the deal is confirmed.

OK.

(off air, to pilots)

STAY OFF THE VODKA!!!

bump update coming soon

Reference thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378550


Over the past thirty years the Imperial Empire has followed the policy of interning HIV and AIDS patients to prevent them from spreading the disease to Imperial Citizenry. The system has been extremely effective for the first 20 years of operation returning high profits to the Empire from mining operations, but over the past 10 years the program has faced dwindling profits due to dramatic decreases in camp populations and lack of repopulation has forced all camps except for the one to close.

The consolidation of the camps into one improved the financial situation of the program for a few months but the natural attrition rate has once again plunged the program into the red once again. Considering the small number of internees in the prisons and the lack of production from the camps which prevents supplies from being purchased by the camp the Inquisition will begin the final shutdown of the Internment program and begin full scale liquidations of the remaining 175 thousand internees.

It is expected to take 2-3 months for the internees to remove all heavy machinery and useful equipment from the camps and for the Inquisition to shut them down. It will also take another 2-4 weeks to liquidate the detainees.

As of now any further cases of AIDS or HIV will be dealt with liquidation, however a dozen camp sites will stay in place in case there is ever a need to reopen them for either HIV/AIDS patients or any other group it might be necessary to intern for the good of Empire.


OOC: Hey there, Belem. I haven't seen you in a while. I'm going to read through this and maybe make an IC post if there is any real IC reason to do so.

~ Romandeos.

Falcania is sending a crack platoon of extermination eunuchs who shall be unable to willingly contract the disease.

bump

You have our full support. We have maintained our AIDS and HIV patients in a special facility for years, and thus far, no further cases have been reported thanks to us requiring foregners be blood tested before entering the nation of Parthia.

-Shah Khosru III

Update: According to the timetable set down with the initial shutdown of the camps all remaining work camps have been shutdown by the Inquisition and the remaining internees not sold off are being transported to the last remaining camp and liquidation will begin within the week(1 or 2 days RL time depending when i get around to making the post.) The Holy Office of the Inquisition would like to remind all nations interested in purchasing internees to place orders immediately to ensure they will be filled.

Anyone interested in taking our stock of patients? Undetermined number, could be anywhere around a hundred thousand in Brazil, couple thousand in rest of territories (each)

What is your means of HIV detection? Generally HIV is spread by unknowing victims. How often must people be checked, and if you are murdering the victims, how reliable are your tests?

There is mandatory testing in Belem for diseases at certain times in a persons life. When a child is born they are tested before they start school they are tested again. All men are tested when they are to report for Belem Defense Militia sign up and evaluation. When a couple gets married both are tested for diseases and when a woman becomes pregnant she is again tested. Also if a person is hired for a government job or joins the military they are tested again and for the military they are tested at set intervals during there enlistment.

bump

To the Nation of Belem, The Task force of the Region of The Realm of Hibernia that is currently situated off the coast of Belem in International waters shall view any act of aggression Against its presence as a declaration of War Against the Realm of Hibernia And its Allied Regions.

We Again Beseech you to release your Citizens currently held in your final camp to the custody of the Task forces Hospital Ships.

Again we await Your Reply!

Belem, you can't do this legally. Under UN Resolution 83, the EON Convention on Genocide, you cannot target any group of people for destruction. If you even start you begin TPP. If you don't recognize the UN, leave it. Loratana will not condone the actions of Venerable Libertarians, since it creates a conflict of interest, but expect retribution if you lose the trial, and from the looks of this thread, you will.

To the Nation of Belem, The Task force of the Region of The Realm of Hibernia that is currently situated off the coast of Belem in International waters shall view any act of aggression Against its presence as a declaration of War Against the Realm of Hibernia And its Allied Regions.

We Again Beseech you to release your Citizens currently held in your final camp to the custody of the Task forces Hospital Ships.

Again we await Your Reply!

The Imperial Empire once again advises Hibernian to remove there fleet to a position atleast 200 miles away from the Belem coast or actions will be taken against the fleet.

And we once again would like to remind you they are not citizens of the Empire as in all there racial and citizenship standings have been revoked.

Belem, you can't do this legally. Under UN Resolution 83, the EON Convention on Genocide, you cannot target any group of people for destruction. If you even start you begin TPP. If you don't recognize the UN, leave it. Loratana will not condone the actions of Venerable Libertarians, since it creates a conflict of interest, but expect retribution if you lose the trial, and from the looks of this thread, you will.

The Imperial Empire is not part of the UN and hence not bound by its rules or rulings on any matters. Nor do we recognize the U.N. alleged right to interfere with internal Belem politics.


ooc: first execution post coming soon.

The Imperial Empire is not part of the UN and hence not bound by its rules or rulings on any matters. Nor do we recognize the U.N. alleged right to interfere with internal Belem politics.


ooc: first execution post coming soon.

Belem's status as not belonging to the United Nations has been confirmed. All rights and duties due that state specifically from United Nations resolutions do not apply.

Director Koro Vartek
Diplomacy and Trade
Armed Republic of Krioval

Broadcast Aired at approx. 6 PM on most Belem News Stations:

The camera is on a rocky field where thousands of prisoners are in the process of digging trenches and erecting large wooden stakes. Inquisitors stand around the perimeter dressed in full combat gear. Otheres are patrolling the trench ordering the internees where to dig.

Voiceover: This is the Belem news network reporting for the first time from previously classified internee camps for those interned for carrying the devils disease. The Holy Office of the Inquisition has announced that today will begun the first cleansings of the enemies of Belem. We will continue providing updates during the day on the progress of the cleansings.


30 minutes Later:

More News Networks begin broadcasts from the camps. By now the trench network is completed and the internees are tied to the wooden stakes positioned through out the trenches. A High Inquisitor Colonel in full dress uniform comes up to a podium and begins reading an address:

"The Holy Office of the Inquisition today by Imperial Decree has issued the order to begin the execution of the most heinous criminals present in the camp those convicted of crimes against Mother Church and Our Lord God. Today we execute the known sodomites and homosexuals and remove their blight from the Earth. Under the orders of our Glorious Emperor Vincent Lombardi they were put on trial and Convicted of Crimes against God by Grand Inquisitor Tarkin. By the laws set down by the Inquisition these heretics will be burnt at the stake by the cleansing flame. These ten thousand traitors will feel the might of Imperial Law. We the members of his Emperors personal Imperial Guard will oversee this Inquisition and ensure these enemies of the Empire go to there eternal damnation."

On cue select Inquisitors around the perimeter of the trench toss burning torches into the oil fields quickly spreading the fire and pumping black smoke into the sky. The news cameras stay focused on the burnings as a voiceover reads the plans for the following executions to take place the next day for those who commited high crimes against the Empire.

The Hibernian taskforce has witnessed the massacre but was ordered to stand down.

Notice to the leaders of Belem......
Your Atrocities have been witnessed and Documented! The UN May at the Moment be unwilling to do something but The Realm of Hibernia will never forget your cruelty and Evil.

You Will see the flag of the realm off your shores again. but next time it will not be a UN Mercy Mission.

Next time ................

The Task force withdraws and returns not empty handed but with the evidence of Belems attack on its weakest citizens

Belem News Report:

UN PAPER TIGER FEARS IMPERIAL MIGHT!

Today despite bostierous claims otherwise the Hibernian Task Force fled from the Imperial Coast no doubt fearing the might of the Imperial Navy.

The task force was positioned off the Empire's coast as a "warning" against Belem's "crimes" against "Humanity" despite the governments constant denial of the fact that those being executed were not Human.

The task force of Hibernia insisted action would be taken if the Inquisition went through with the executions of those marked with the devil's disease. After the first round of executions the only response from Hibernia was a pathetically empty threat and their "finest fleets" running like a dog with its tail between its legs.

Once again it is shown that the so called United Nations is powerless to do anything then boast and strut.

bump

bump

To National Leadership of Belem:

Dear Sir or Ma'am, contained within this express-trans diplomatic transmission is a time sensitive offer that could change your life! Please, open and read the following transmission as soon as possible, for new and exciting financial opportunities! Amazing profits and astonishing deals await within, act now!

**********

While the Colonial Government considers your actions to be unpleasent in nature, we in the Democratic Colonies also understand the reasoning behind your currently ongoing activities - however, the question must be asked, what profit is there to be gained from burning these patients alive? Effort, man hours, equipment and material all must be expended at great cost, simply to bring about the deaths of a group of essentially harmless, already diseased and dying people? Forgive me if I fail to see the profit potential in this equation, but ofcourse, we in the Democratic Colonies are hardly as business savvy as most in nations such as yourself. That is why, today, the Democratic Colonies is prepared to make an offer that surely cannot be turned down by any wise, profit minded leader.

The Colonial Government is willing to pay a sum of ten thousand, yes, that's 10,000 Colonial Credits for every patient you can deliver to us. With the current exchange rate of one Colonial Credit for $1.7412 US, the sum in hard US currency per patient that we are willing to pay is an astounding seventeen thousand four hundred and twelve dollars, or $17,412 per patient. Amazing!

Now, that alone might seem quite generous of the Colonial Government - such an extravagent amount for a lowly, diseased refugee. Surely, to accept such a deal would be both profitable and wise, but there's more! For every ten thousand patients that can be transferred into our care, we will pay to you, with no strings or extra terms attached, an additional sum of $100,000 US dollars as a bonus for co-operation. Such levels of spending are rarely authorized here in the Democratic Colonies, so please, act quickly if you want to take advantage of this once in a life time offer - Colonial representitives are standing by for your transmission now.

The Colonial Government expects any patients recieved to be in relatively good condition for proper payment. The Colonial Government will pay for all shipping and transportation costs. The Colonial Navy has already dispatched a taskforce in anticipation of your acceptence of this offer. Purpose of Colonial Navy Taskforce may change at any time without notice. All terms and conditions contained within this offer are considered to be legally binding upon acceptence of offer by both involved parties.

- The Office of Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/58ee1220.jpg

The Commonwealth of The Gulf States applauds our ally of Belem for eradicating the plague of AIDS. We are considering similar actions for our own immoral, stripped of citizenship and rights. Although our path to executions will take longer than in the Inquisition State.

We're also waiting for another nation to take the patients, let them be sold off. We get cash, they get human guinea pigs. It's win win.

Yes the deal is confirmed.

Having just become aware of this trade the government of Rages Begin must voice its concerns regarding the transportation of toxic waste across international borders.

Being a new nation, and at present free from any disease, we can not allow this trade to go ahead for fear of accidents and environmental damage to our proud citizens. As such, we intend to deploy our limited military resources to use whatever means to stop this trade.

For the nation of Belem - Clear up your own mess and don't involve anyone else!

It appears that not all humans are beyond hope. To become strong, you must purge yourselves of the weak! Belem is one of a few who realises this, yet they are hounded by those who would rather dilute their strength by protecting the weak.

WHY though? Why protect the weak? All things die. You accomplish nothing by putting time and effort into helping weaklings such as these diseased ones, nothing except weakening yourselves, and your entire society in the process. There is an old Ghargonian saying; "He who shows strength becomes Ghargon. He who shows pity lies dead beneath the feet of the Ghargon." Learn it well.

Though, the people of Belem are weakened by actually putting effort into their removal. These diseased weaklings would die of their own accord in good time. Just don't help them with anything. You only need kill them if they challenge you, or make a nuisance of themselves. These weaklings are not worth anybody's time.

Captain Grak
0micronis Island Imperium Colony
Earth

Having just become aware of this trade the government of Rages Begin must voice its concerns regarding the transportation of toxic waste across international borders.

Being a new nation, and at present free from any disease, we can not allow this trade to go ahead for fear of accidents and environmental damage to our proud citizens. As such, we intend to deploy our limited military resources to use whatever means to stop this trade.

For the nation of Belem - Clear up your own mess and don't involve anyone else!

OOC: I (and I think Belem) work by the time of 1 NS Year=1 RL Day. Therefore, the trade is long past already.

IC:

We were purchasing these poor people only so we could free them. Any military aggression on your part would only destroy our aim.

Also, the trade was completed a substantial amount of time ago, and, in the eyes and whiskers of our government, is totally irrelevant. We ask you to stop all military action immediately.

Marko "Super-Camera" Jelavic
Minister Of Home Affairs
Winner of Traner Prize for Photography Feb & Mar 2005

EDIT: AAAARRRRGGGHHH! Having multiple nations is SO HARD!!!

To National Leadership of Belem:

Dear Sir or Ma'am, contained within this express-trans diplomatic transmission is a time sensitive offer that could change your life! Please, open and read the following transmission as soon as possible, for new and exciting financial opportunities! Amazing profits and astonishing deals await within, act now!

**********

While the Colonial Government considers your actions to be unpleasent in nature, we in the Democratic Colonies also understand the reasoning behind your currently ongoing activities - however, the question must be asked, what profit is there to be gained from burning these patients alive? Effort, man hours, equipment and material all must be expended at great cost, simply to bring about the deaths of a group of essentially harmless, already diseased and dying people? Forgive me if I fail to see the profit potential in this equation, but ofcourse, we in the Democratic Colonies are hardly as business savvy as most in nations such as yourself. That is why, today, the Democratic Colonies is prepared to make an offer that surely cannot be turned down by any wise, profit minded leader.

The Colonial Government is willing to pay a sum of ten thousand, yes, that's 10,000 Colonial Credits for every patient you can deliver to us. With the current exchange rate of one Colonial Credit for $1.7412 US, the sum in hard US currency per patient that we are willing to pay is an astounding seventeen thousand four hundred and twelve dollars, or $17,412 per patient. Amazing!

Now, that alone might seem quite generous of the Colonial Government - such an extravagent amount for a lowly, diseased refugee. Surely, to accept such a deal would be both profitable and wise, but there's more! For every ten thousand patients that can be transferred into our care, we will pay to you, with no strings or extra terms attached, an additional sum of $100,000 US dollars as a bonus for co-operation. Such levels of spending are rarely authorized here in the Democratic Colonies, so please, act quickly if you want to take advantage of this once in a life time offer - Colonial representitives are standing by for your transmission now.

The Colonial Government expects any patients recieved to be in relatively good condition for proper payment. The Colonial Government will pay for all shipping and transportation costs. The Colonial Navy has already dispatched a taskforce in anticipation of your acceptence of this offer. Purpose of Colonial Navy Taskforce may change at any time without notice. All terms and conditions contained within this offer are considered to be legally binding upon acceptence of offer by both involved parties.

- The Office of Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/58ee1220.jpg


The Holy Imperial Empire of Belem is willing to sell to the Democratic Colonies 20,000 internees who have only be convicted of minor crimes against the Imperial Empire.

ooc: for this RP I was using about 1 day is 1 week since posting wasn't frequent.

Freudotopia applauds your decisiveness, and looks with disdain upon those who would interfere with the affairs of a sovereign nation. We will defend your actions should any foreign power attempt to intervene. However, we would pay 13,000 per person yodels for any prisoners who have HIV but have not yet developed AIDS; they are to be used for medical research, and we shall require 32 of them. Do not fear, we have no intention of releasing them. Also, BizCorp has petitioned my government to ask for one patient, any patient, to be the star of the new reality show "Laughing at Those With Terminal Illnesses," airing April 25 on the TFM channel.

-Saul Hudson, Emperor of Freudotopia

We at Gadget Corporation would like to buy several of these AIDS-infected patients, for testing of our new weapons and chemicals, as well as the possibility of trying to develop a cure*. For each infected patient, we are willing to pay a sum of gears ((Indeterminable, NSEconomy site has bugged info)) equivalent to 100 USD.

*If we are able to find a cure, we will immediately transfer a sample to you

CEO of Gadget Corporation,
Dinar Jetz

The Holy Imperial Empire of Belem is willing to sell to the Democratic Colonies 20,000 internees who have only be convicted of minor crimes against the Imperial Empire.

The Democratic Colonies accepts this. The Colonial Navy Task Force outside of your waters will take on all of these patients for transport to the Democratic Colonies. Funds will be transfered as the patients are taken into our care, with the total of this transaction coming to $348,440,000 US.

The Colonial Government, while pleased with this transaction, is willing to take in more patients and would like to know if there is any possibility of this.

- Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/March01.jpg

ooc: I don't think it should matter anyway. The deal is done, the trade completed; why do we want him to interfere?

ooc: I was just saying for clarification purposes for any posts made in the future.

The Democratic Colonies accepts this. The Colonial Navy Task Force outside of your waters will take on all of these patients for transport to the Democratic Colonies. Funds will be transfered as the patients are taken into our care, with the total of this transaction coming to $348,440,000 US.

The Colonial Government, while pleased with this transaction, is willing to take in more patients and would like to know if there is any possibility of this.

- Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/March01.jpg


The internees are currently being transported to you fleet. As of this time the Empire is prepared to only sell 20 thousand as most of the others in the camp have been convicted of higher crimes against the Empire.

Freudotopia applauds your decisiveness, and looks with disdain upon those who would interfere with the affairs of a sovereign nation. We will defend your actions should any foreign power attempt to intervene. However, we would pay 13,000 per person yodels for any prisoners who have HIV but have not yet developed AIDS; they are to be used for medical research, and we shall require 32 of them. Do not fear, we have no intention of releasing them. Also, BizCorp has petitioned my government to ask for one patient, any patient, to be the star of the new reality show "Laughing at Those With Terminal Illnesses," airing April 25 on the TFM channel.

-Saul Hudson, Emperor of Freudotopia

We can provide you with 33 patients, 32 for the research and 1 for the reality series. They will be availible for pick up at a time of your convience.

We at Gadget Corporation would like to buy several of these AIDS-infected patients, for testing of our new weapons and chemicals, as well as the possibility of trying to develop a cure*. For each infected patient, we are willing to pay a sum of gears ((Indeterminable, NSEconomy site has bugged info)) equivalent to 100 USD.

*If we are able to find a cure, we will immediately transfer a sample to you

CEO of Gadget Corporation,
Dinar Jetz

We are willing to sell Gadget Corp 300 internees for testing.

Update:

Today the Holy Office of the Inquisition has continued the executions of those who commited Crimes against Mother Church and God with the burning at the stake of five thousand confessed heretics.

Being as that there are no more internees convicted of crimes against Church, God or High Treason against the Empire all further executions will be dealt out using other methods prescribed by Belem law.

An additional five thousand internees were executed for High Crimes against the Empire. They have been executed by an Inquisitor firing squad bye being shot twice in the head with a .50 cal pistol. Those convicted were charged the cost of the bullets beforehand to pay for the execution.

By doing so, you are saying that some lives are worthless.

We can provide you with 33 patients, 32 for the research and 1 for the reality series. They will be availible for pick up at a time of your convience.

Excellent. A "medical" helicopter has been dispatched and money has been wired. Thank you for your cooperation.

--Saul Hudson, Emperor of Freudotopia

bump

bump

Update: Executions are contiuning as scheduled with those who commited high crimes against the Empire being executed at approximately 5-10 thousand a day. At this rate exterimination shall be complete within 10 days following coming in under our initial time estimate of two weeks. Those convicted of low crimes shall start to be executed within 3 days time.

The Colonial Government is willing to pay $50,000 US for every patient under the age of 60 that can be delivered into our care.

We believe this offer to be most generous of us, and would find you wise if you were to accept it.

- Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/March01.jpg

We at Gadget Corporation accept this offer. The money will be wired once our transport aircraft arrive to pick up the internees.

The Confederated City States of Mikitivity has enacted a trade embargo against Belem in response to its current genocidal practices. Fortunately, since Belem is not a member of the United Nations, it is not entitled to any Free Trade agreements or embargo protections that are extended to UN members.

The Imperial Empire has enacted a counter trade embargo on the nation of Mikitivity. Also anyone citizens from Mikitivity within the Empire or attempting to enter the Empire will be immediately and indefinately detained as spies against the Empire with the charges of commiting espionage and sabotage against the Imperial Empire.

OOC:

Connected thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410089

The Colonial Government is willing to pay $50,000 US for every patient under the age of 60 that can be delivered into our care.

We believe this offer to be most generous of us, and would find you wise if you were to accept it.

- Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/March01.jpg

The Empire is willing to sell democratic colonies then an additional 5 thousand internees as those are all left who can be deemed appropiate for sale under Belem law.

Two hundred and fifty million US dollars will be transferred to the Government of Belem as the Colonial Navy Task Force outside of the waters of Belem take on the patients.

- Secretary Stephanie March, Colonial Department of Foreign Affairs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/NationStates/March01.jpg

The latest batch is being transported to your transports now and we thank you for your business.

The Imperial Empire has enacted a counter trade embargo on the nation of Mikivity. Also anyone citizens from Mikivity within the Empire or attempting to enter the Empire will be immediately and indefinately detained as spies against the Empire with the charges of commiting espionage and sabotage against the Imperial Empire.

OK, but do keep in mind that there is no nation in NationStates named Mikivity.

"You're fired!"
"No, you can't fire me, I just quit!"
"Whatever, have your desk cleared by tomorrow morning."
;)

ooc: well what would constitute someone as being a citizen of mikivity are the people being in interned. So then it would be the citizens of the city states that make up mikivity if they are all acting in cooperation. If some don't have the embargo then citizens from those cities wont be rounded up.

bump for the night

The State Department of The Gulf States would like to remind all these other nations complaining about the Belemian AIDS patient genocide that it should be none of their buisness to create military sanctions against the Belemian nation.

The rules of the United Nations do not apply to any nation of The Great Plain, and we really could care less what your country wants to do about us doing whatever we want.

The State Department of The Gulf States would like to remind all these other nations complaining about the Belemian AIDS patient genocide that it should be none of their buisness to create military sanctions against the Belemian nation.

The rules of the United Nations do not apply to any nation of The Great Plain, and we really could care less what your country wants to do about us doing whatever we want.

While the Gulf States is correct to point out that non-UN members have not agreed to adhere to basic human rights, UN members are also on no obligation to extend UN based trading rights or political recognition to non-UN members that violate the most basic human rights. In other words, if a nation is free to murder its own citizens, then any other nation is free to not recognize the legitimacy of that government and cease trade with that government.

My government is concerned about the practice of genocide even in non-UN member states, in part because the people of Mikitivity believe in the fundamental extension of basic human rights to all people, even those whom are born and reside in non-UN states, and also because once the genocide is finished, a government who's rule is based on fear and blood, tends to turn its internal agressions outward to other nations, causing regional instability.

It is not a decision made lightly when a capitalist nation such as my own places economic sanctions on a large nation. By placing sanctions against a government, we are hurting our economy as well, as we are denying ourselves a free market. However, experience has shown us that a leadership that is so thoughtless as to exterminate its own greatest resource: its citizens, is an unworthy trade partner and in all probability has very little of value to trade other than agression and hostility.

The "counter" embargo is really symbolic, in that the point behind my government's sanctions is to control economic transactions from Mikitivity to Belem and to also prohibit any trade from Belem into Mikitivity. If the government of Belem wants to also enact a similar sanction, at this point this will only make it easier for my government to actually enforce its sanctions against Belem.

Office of International Affairs
Confederated City States of Mikitivity


OOC: Belem ... I think you misunderstood my previous post ... I was just teasing that you have a typo there. By all means, please place sanctions against "Mikivity", because ...

Uh-oh
Nation Not Found: "Mikivity"
If possible, use your browser's BACK button to return and fix this.

... my government has yet to open relationships with Mikivity and thinks your proposed sanctions of that government is going to have little impact on anybody. ;)

ooc: doh ok I fixed the typo.

ooc: doh ok I fixed the typo.

:) Thanks!

IC:
My nation recognizes your government's counter sanctions, however, we will remain firm in our commitment to basic fundamental human rights and will not waver from our sanctions until such a time that the legal government of Belem accepts responsibility for the murders of these individuals. If Belem wishes for my government to end its embargo, we are open to the discussion of this matter.

The Imperial Empire will not negiotate with rogue nations attempting to force their world opinion down other soviergn nations throats. As of this time the Empire will cease all trade with the nation of Mikitivity and will freeze and seize all accounts held by Mikitivity or its citizens within Belem. All Mikitivians(?) within Belem as of this time will be rounded up and sent to an Imperial Penal Colony run by the Inquisition. Any Mikitivians who attempt to enter Belem either through legal or illegal means will be arressted and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

bump

OOC: Mikitivitians or Miervatians if you are talking about the city folk. :) You got it right ... someday I need to get a decent Wiki entry!

IC:
*The Ambassador from Mikitivity stands to respond to Belem's lastest warning.*

While it is true that my government is appalled by Belem's government sponsored genocide campaign, having been altered to the events taking place and the shear scope of these events several weeks ago through UN intelligence channels, you'll find no citizens of the City States inside of Belem. As far as my government is concerned, Belem is a nation that is sadly misguided and unfit for recognition in the international community.

What is puzzling is how any nation could carry out such a large scale holocaust in such a short time frame? The answer is of course that nations with an ear to the ground saw the signs of this for some time, but it is a diplomatic reality that we can't pre-emptively act. With this in mind, my government sees no peaceful settlement other than to simply wait for the current leadership to crumble and fall on its own. Clearly any capitalist society that actually is willing to devote its economy to murdering its own labor pool will soon enough be but a footnote in the pages of NationStates history.

The Federation of Grosseschnauzer and the schnauzervolk nations associated with it have enacted economic, travel, and trade sanctions to Belem and to any nation attempting to trade with Belem. We have directed all banking institutions to request blocks against any and all financial transactions involving Belem and any nation trading with Belem. Should any assets of the nation of Belem be located within the territory of the Democratic Federation of Grosseschnauzer and the schnauzervolk nations associated with it, such assets have been and will be seized and any financial accounts have been or will be frozen pending further directions of the Federation Government.
You will not find any citizen of any schnaizervolk nation within the territory of Belem; all of our citizens were advised to avoid any travel to, and transactions with, Belem early in this crisis.

The Imperial Empire extends the same embargo that it enacted upon Mikitivity onto the nation of Grosseschnauzer and the nations of the Schnauzervolk. The Empire shall also be advising all its allies to extend these same sanctions to the rogue nations which wish to bring harm to Belem.

As for the Mikitivitian question on how this program was conducted so quickly we would like to point out this is merely the culmination of a public program started 20 years to isolate those infected from the healthy Belem population. The program itself was public for its duration and only the camps locations were kept classified for military defense reasons.

I NeoCaesar, ruler of TheNeoRomanEmpire, would like to show my deep congratulations on a job well done. I also write to allow you to considered another way of keeping your population pure. Recently TheNeoRomanEmpire passed a law which mandates that any child born with a physically defect or mental retardation, must be destroyed as soon as the problem is detected. We find that children with these impairments which are allowed to live, serve no great purpose in their societies and are ultimately more of a problem. Just something to think about, once again congratulation and my I say you've won respect from our nation.

Sincerely,
NeoCaesar

bump

Gwenstefani would like to join the growing group of nations already placing economic sanctions on Belem. We shall allow no imports from, or exports to, the country. We no longer recognise the Belemese government as legitimate. The very few Gwenstefanian citizens in the country were advised to leave long ago.

We would also like to respond to the accusations that we are "rogue nations". On the contrary, we are governed by UN principles and much of what we are doing is following international law and guidelines.

The Federation of Grosseschnauzer and the schnauzervolk nations associated with it have enacted economic, travel, and trade sanctions to Belem and to any nation attempting to trade with Belem. We have directed all banking institutions to request blocks against any and all financial transactions involving Belem and any nation trading with Belem. Should any assets of the nation of Belem be located within the territory of the Democratic Federation of Grosseschnauzer and the schnauzervolk nations associated with it, such assets have been and will be seized and any financial accounts have been or will be frozen pending further directions of the Federation Government.
You will not find any citizen of any schnaizervolk nation within the territory of Belem; all of our citizens were advised to avoid any travel to, and transactions with, Belem early in this crisis.

Eh I noticed something here
... to Belem and to any nation attempting to trade with Belem.
From a realistic point of view(I'm a realist when it comes to NS), there are many nations trading with Belem, probably thousands who have some traderoute going to or from Belem which is quite normal for a nation his size. So I am assuming you have embargoed each of these nations, that means you are damaging yourself more than you'll ever damage him.

"We do not believe that we have the right to tell the Belemese government what it can and cannot do. their ways may seem brutal, but we think they are efficient and therefore we will not harm the Belemese government in any way. Especially if one realizes that Belem just lost a portion of its working population, if anything we should all increase trade."
"The Durthangist Reich of Vermin will be glad to take over any trade-agreements from nations in the embargo and strenghten its relations with the Belemese government"

http://users.pandora.be/bdc/yuri6.jpg
<[Lord Yuri]>
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Durthangist Reich of Vermin

After much deliberation amongst the members it has been advised sanctions are to be introduced against the Nation State of Belem.
In acknowledgeing this fact and after Witnessing the Horrific acts on its peoples, the 47 Nations of the Realm of Hibernia, Under the Reign of his Majesty King James the First and seconded by the UN Delegate to the Realm, Grand Cali, Impose Economic Sanctions with immediate effect.
These sanctions shall be lifted once the current government of Belem are removed.

By order of His majesty the King and benevolent Overlord of the Realm of Hibernia.

HRH King James.

Official Government Response to this idiocy

"If any of these do-gooder nations eager to prove their worth on the international stage disrupt the transactions of Reichs and Colonial banking then we shall be the first who will declare war on the whole lot of you. Do NOT interrupt of monetary traffic, do NOT interrupt any of the trading between the Holy Imperial Empire and the United Reich. Do NOT test the tensile strength of these fairly simple rules. The Holy Imperial Empire has the right to rid itself from these üntermenschen, and nobody has the right to take that away from him. I do hope I have made myself clear.

With no respect, Signoli DeFelice, Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Official Government Response to this idiocy

"If any of these do-gooder nations eager to prove their worth on the international stage disrupt the transactions of Reichs and Colonial banking then we shall be the first who will declare war on the whole lot of you. Do NOT interrupt of monetary traffic, do NOT interrupt any of the trading between the Holy Imperial Empire and the United Reich. Do NOT test the tensile strength of these fairly simple rules. The Holy Imperial Empire has the right to rid itself from these üntermenschen, and nobody has the right to take that away from him. I do hope I have made myself clear.

With no respect, Signoli DeFelice, Minister of Foreign Affairs.

All that we are doing is ceasing trading with Belem. We are not preventing others from doing so as we do not wish to punish others for Belem's transgressions. Our actions are aimed only at Belem. It is with deep regret that the acceleration of the liquidation program prevented us from doing more to help those in need, so now economic sanctions are one of our few remaining recourses.

Eh I noticed something here
... to Belem and to any nation attempting to trade with Belem.
From a realistic point of view(I'm a realist when it comes to NS), there are many nations trading with Belem, probably thousands who have some traderoute going to or from Belem which is quite normal for a nation his size. So I am assuming you have embargoed each of these nations, that means you are damaging yourself more than you'll ever damage him.

While that is an interesting theory, what you are suggesting is that a trade embargo is something that is placed on the goods themselves, whereas, what I believe most of our governments has clearly stated is an objection to the government of Belem and that the embargo is nothing more than a statement of non-recognition of Belem.

If another nation wishes to associate with Belem, that certainly is their right. I just pray that their citizens are as like minded as Belem and have no moral objections to enabling a government that is determined to murder its own citizens.

However, it is a simple truth that in a world the size of NationStates, that there are always many opportunities. And with these opportunities, means that if trade had existed before between say Belem and Mikitivity (and to be honest, it did not) there is not likely to be a major global impact on my government simply refusing to sell bauxite or iron to Belem.

The point of the economic sanctions is to point out that the people of my government believe that while nations have some degree of sovereign (self) rule, that a government that is willing to use people's own resources (their police and military) to murder them, is unconscienable and dangerous. However, we simply can't justify simply declaring war on this government, without first giving them the chance to moderate their EXTREME ways.

Belem's statement that it imposes a trade sanction on any nation that imposes a sanction on it, is to be expected, but if your arguement that sanctions imply ceasing all trade, and since all UN members must follow all UN resolutions, including the "Free Trade" resolutions, by your logic, Belem just prohibited itself from trading with some 38,000 nations, and also is mandating that its trading partners do the same. I don't think that is what was being suggested by any government.

The reality is that a nation that will simply round up foreigners and place them in detention facilities because another government refused to trade with them after they murdered thousands of their own citizens, is really unstable.

In closing I'd like to remind everybody of Pastor Martin Niemöller's words about another holocaust:


Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

Or as translated into English:


When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; afterall, I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.

You know what international laws many of the UN members are bound by ... these laws are spelled out at the UN headquarters, and I'd be happy to talk about the benefits and costs of UN membership. You also have seen that instead of rushing first to arms, that our governments have employeed economic threats in order to place an economic cost on the actions of Belem. What you do not know, is that a number of our governments have privately contacted Belem requesting the emmigration / relocation of the persons in question. The number was large, but not large enough that these individuals could not be relocated to other nations that are more than happy to bolster our work forces. Belem politely refused these offers.

What you should be asking yourself is after Belem has murdered every last citizen in Belem who is HIV positive, what is their government going to do next? What if one of your citizens who has an illness steps foot in Belem and that government feels that this person, who is capable of working and one of your citizens, is arrested and put to death? How long will your own citizens tolerate this?

This isn't really a question about human rights anymore. Belem has acted and swiftly. Belem was in a position to effectively prevent any military intervention, because frankly two wrongs will not always make a right. If my government were to actually kill the people of Belem in order to prevent Belem from killing the people of Belem, what would we have accomplished? Perhaps a larger conflict. There is little doubt in my mind that all of the nations whos citizens simply don't care about how abusive their governments are would then declare war on any nation they felt they could bully around -- if open hostilities broke out.

But as it stands now, a military attack on a nation simply because it refuses to *sell* and *trade* and *buy* items from another nation doesn't make any economic sense at all. It doesn't make any political sense, and frankly, it really doesn't make any stragetic sense.

There is an old Miervatian saying, "Better the devil you know ...". UN nations may be slow to respond to international conflicts, due to the number of regulations we agree to follow. But our governments are stable and our citizens are happy and productive (the benefit of having many civil rights). We also enjoy economic unity and strength, via the passage of each and every free trade agreement. But if a non-UN member can (correctly) point out that UN human rights laws don't apply to them, then a UN member can point out that a UN economic right doesn't apply to non-members either.

OOC: About the roleplay here ... I don't know about the others, but my time per day to devote to a roleplay *is* limited. :(

Furthermore, I'm not interested in a war roleplay, not because I don't think they can be fun (in fact I think they can be rewarding), but because if I want to do something I'd like to do it right and develop my nation's military with some detail. I'm here to play a diplomatic foil. ;) Remember, for years the United States has had an embargo on Cuba. Europe has not, and it is possible to travel to the Netherlands, and purchase a Cuban Cigar and then "accidently" carry it back to the US. The US and Cuba have not shown any interest in going to war in my life-time (and I'm not a young pup, I remember the world prior to the first Space Shuttle). :)

I'm not trying to limit where things go! :) But I just don't want anybody thinking that I have to time to get into a shooting war.

OOC: So you don't want me to go through with this?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410089


And if you have a firm number, how many HIV/AIDS patients do you still have alive in Belem?

Eh I noticed something here
... to Belem and to any nation attempting to trade with Belem.
From a realistic point of view(I'm a realist when it comes to NS), there are many nations trading with Belem, probably thousands who have some traderoute going to or from Belem which is quite normal for a nation his size. So I am assuming you have embargoed each of these nations, that means you are damaging yourself more than you'll ever damage him.

"We do not believe that we have the right to tell the Belemese government what it can and cannot do. their ways may seem brutal, but we think they are efficient and therefore we will not harm the Belemese government in any way. Especially if one realizes that Belem just lost a portion of its working population, if anything we should all increase trade."
"The Durthangist Reich of Vermin will be glad to take over any trade-agreements from nations in the embargo and strenghten its relations with the Belemese government"

http://users.pandora.be/bdc/yuri6.jpg
<[Lord Yuri]>
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Durthangist Reich of Vermin

OOC: Technically I only recognize RPing nations as being part of the the official NS world when it comes to trading and such which limits the number of nations down to 300. But that still allows for a large portion of the global community to trade with me.

IC: The Imperial Empire would be interested in expanding markets into the Durthangist Reich and would like to extend to the Reich a reduced tariff trading policy.

OOC: So you don't want me to go through with this?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410089


And if you have a firm number, how many HIV/AIDS patients do you still have alive in Belem?

OOC: about 60-70 thousand. I have to check to see when I made the last updated post. executions are between 5-10 thousand a day.

bump

OOC: For reference, how many will be left alive at the end of the exicutions? Also, geographically, where is the camp located? How far inland? What's the terrain around it? population dencity? What kind of defences would you have that could be seen from orbit? How difficult is it for someone to visually inspect the camp? Is it alright if Verdant Archipelago agents have suborned some people within Belem, for example, those who have had relatives disapeared into the camps? No one in a sencitive position, just, say, someone in a car rental company.

ooc: at the end of all the executions? none. Just anyone who is detected at having the diseases after the main executions end they will then be placed in a local prison pending execution. Its about 750 miles inland from my coastline and about 50-60 miles south of my Northern border with Iron Blood. The Camp itself is in a somewhat mountanious region its located on a rocky plain in the mountain ranges near some metal mines(source of income for the camp.) The camp is pretty dense its set up like a P.O.W. camp there are lines of barracks, common areas everything is partioned off with barbed wire fences with key areas being electrified. Theres a railline connected to the camp and a small airport.

As for defences you could probably estimate it to be between 400-600 men guarding the camp with about 40-60 APCs and about the same number of tanks. Theres a few transport choppers and small transport planes mainly cessna or learjet size since the airport cant accomodate the big ones.

If you want to visually inspect the camp just turn on the television executions are publicized and broadcasted. Of course most of those filmings will only show the camp from the execution field which is technically outside the camp.

Yeah you could probably find a few sympathizers.

Or synthesizers.

The Belem government chose to take this action, and although we do not agree with their policy, we are not intefering any more. In the eyes and whiskers of our government, the leader(s) of Belem have every right to do what he/they wish to his/their country. Everyone has the right to make some decisions about their possessions.

Chris Holmes MRP (Member of the Ratty Parliament)

SECRET(ish) IC TO BELEM GOVT.:

What would be required to patch up relations between our two great(ish) nations?

OOC: No this isn't a war RP post, you can just assume the results of this announcement. I don't mind :)

IC:

In response to TPP's war mongering and hostility towards our great ally, The Imperial Empire. We have decided to implent the following:

1) All persons, whom are from TPP nations are now in Guild law counted as Imperial property (as slaves to the Emperor personally, they will be auctioned off for industrial, servant or experiment use at a later date), thus will be detained by anyone who wishes to return them to their masters except in prevailing circumstances.

2) All TPP nation's ships and aircraft are now considered rogue, thus are liable to be forcibly confiscated by Guild units or personnel on sight.

3) All trade with TPP nations will cease.

4) Diplomatic ties/channels are officially cut off to TPP nations.

Additionaly, we call upon other nations of true moral stature to take up the fight against the Jews, Communists and other undesirables of TPP, we suggust a blockade of said nations until they accept favourable conditions to our selves.

For God and Saint Peter,

-Criticus Zabic
Foreign Affairs Advisor to the Emperor Cutter

Or synthesizers.

The Belem government chose to take this action, and although we do not agree with their policy, we are not intefering any more. In the eyes and whiskers of our government, the leader(s) of Belem have every right to do what he/they wish to his/their country. Everyone has the right to make some decisions about their possessions.

Chris Holmes MRP (Member of the Ratty Parliament)

SECRET(ish) IC TO BELEM GOVT.:

What would be required to patch up relations between our two great(ish) nations?

We could improve relationship between our two nations by continued and improved trade.

I will honor you with one response, just one as i dont want to hijack this thread (I'm certain neither of us wants that)

While that is an interesting theory, what you are suggesting is that a trade embargo is something that is placed on the goods themselves, whereas, what I believe most of our governments has clearly stated is an objection to the government of Belem and that the embargo is nothing more than a statement of non-recognition of Belem.
No, not on the goods, he said he'd be enacting trade sanctions on any nation attempting to trade with Belem. This would include me, as i'm working on new trade agreements with Belem.

If another nation wishes to associate with Belem, that certainly is their right. I just pray that their citizens are as like minded as Belem and have no moral objections to enabling a government that is determined to murder its own citizens.
All depends on what you believe, my citizens believe that their death was their fate. My citizens believe that if they die tomorrow, it was meant to be. Some citizens will be opposed to Belems actions and wont be involved in the trade between our nations. I do not force them to sell or buy any Belemese products, neither do I force them to buy Mikitivitian products, and I certainly dont force to take a job on a merchantvessel.
However, it is a simple truth that in a world the size of NationStates, that there are always many opportunities. And with these opportunities, means that if trade had existed before between say Belem and Mikitivity (and to be honest, it did not) there is not likely to be a major global impact on my government simply refusing to sell bauxite or iron to Belem.
correct

The point of the economic sanctions is to point out that the people of my government believe that while nations have some degree of sovereign (self) rule, that a government that is willing to use people's own resources (their police and military) to murder them, is unconscienable and dangerous. However, we simply can't justify simply declaring war on this government, without first giving them the chance to moderate their EXTREME ways.
Good you give them the chance to moderate their extreme ways, well their ways are extreme in your eyes, not in theirs. An RL example: As a European I think Americans are extremists when they are really religious or support the death penalty, in their eyes that is not extremist at all. But nothing more on this subject, this thread was probably made to be somewhat extreme.

Belem's statement that it imposes a trade sanction on any nation that imposes a sanction on it, is to be expected, but if your arguement that sanctions imply ceasing all trade, and since all UN members must follow all UN resolutions, including the "Free Trade" resolutions, by your logic, Belem just prohibited itself from trading with some 38,000 nations, and also is mandating that its trading partners do the same. I don't think that is what was being suggested by any government. No, neither do I, I just noticed something and wanted to respond. I dont think Grosseshnauzer wants to sanction every nation trying to trade with Belem.

The reality is that a nation that will simply round up foreigners and place them in detention facilities because another government refused to trade with them after they murdered thousands of their own citizens, is really unstable.
Thats what you say, In the past 200 years of known history of Afghanistan there was only one ruler who had complete control over his nation and was succeeded peacefully(unique for Afghanistan). His nicknames were "Assassin" and "The Iron Amir". His way was(and still is) the only way to govern the nation, we as westerners just wont realize or accept that(and we'll pay the price for that in the future).

In closing I'd like to remind everybody of Pastor Martin Niemöller's words about another holocaust:
Or as translated into English:
You know what international laws many of the UN members are bound by ... these laws are spelled out at the UN headquarters, and I'd be happy to talk about the benefits and costs of UN membership. You also have seen that instead of rushing first to arms, that our governments have employeed economic threats in order to place an economic cost on the actions of Belem. What you do not know, is that a number of our governments have privately contacted Belem requesting the emmigration / relocation of the persons in question. The number was large, but not large enough that these individuals could not be relocated to other nations that are more than happy to bolster our work forces. Belem politely refused these offers.
No I did not know this, only writers, receivers and possibly mods know what is written in a TG. But as you could see a bit higher, the government does not care, its way meant to be this way. Also, we consider Belem to be somewhat of an ally.

What you should be asking yourself is after Belem has murdered every last citizen in Belem who is HIV positive, what is their government going to do next? What if one of your citizens who has an illness steps foot in Belem and that government feels that this person, who is capable of working and one of your citizens, is arrested and put to death? How long will your own citizens tolerate this?
Shall not happen, why would he damage relations with an ally who seeks to improve them?

This isn't really a question about human rights anymore. Belem has acted and swiftly. Belem was in a position to effectively prevent any military intervention, because frankly two wrongs will not always make a right. If my government were to actually kill the people of Belem in order to prevent Belem from killing the people of Belem, what would we have accomplished? Perhaps a larger conflict. There is little doubt in my mind that all of the nations whos citizens simply don't care about how abusive their governments are would then declare war on any nation they felt they could bully around -- if open hostilities broke out. In NS today, there are many alliances and 95% of all (RPing) nations is in one of them, every nation that is threatened usually gets help form someone. I dont think there is much bullying to do. In the old NS a year or so ago, there were many wars where nations just attacked others because they wanted to.

But as it stands now, a military attack on a nation simply because it refuses to *sell* and *trade* and *buy* items from another nation doesn't make any economic sense at all. It doesn't make any political sense, and frankly, it really doesn't make any stragetic sense.So far I havent seen many military threats, maybe I looked over them. I agree that there is not much to gain from a war at this stage.

There is an old Miervatian saying, "Better the devil you know ...". UN nations may be slow to respond to international conflicts, due to the number of regulations we agree to follow. But our governments are stable and our citizens are happy and productive (the benefit of having many civil rights). We also enjoy economic unity and strength, via the passage of each and every free trade agreement. But if a non-UN member can (correctly) point out that UN human rights laws don't apply to them, then a UN member can point out that a UN economic right doesn't apply to non-members either.
correct, especially that last line.

thats all... i think

bump update coming soon.

Updates: Executions are continuning at full speed the camps population are now down to 50 thousand. The executions of those who have commited low crimes against the empire will be beginning tommorow and they will be executed in the same manner as those who have been commited of high crimes against the Empire.

DLE CommCode: 1759464ADc6
Location Identifier: TN924
Matrinet Source: GBDPTR4
Verification Code: *******

Message:

I wish to remind all nations involved that we, despite our dislike of what Belem has done, have remained neutral in these events. We have kept our neutrality out of the belief that it can be used as evidence that we will be impartial if a trial ever starts. But due to recent events, we are forced to reconsider that position.

I ask that all nations remember and respect our neutrality. Any fighting between both sides is best if you exclude ourselves and a couple others from it, due mainly to technology levels in comparison to those found among your nations. However, any interference with our citizens, soldiers, or ships not resulting from hostile actions on our part will be considered not only an open declaration of war but also a direct attack on our nation. Then we will deploy every weapon at our disposal on all nations guilty of the interference until all resistance in their nation is pacified or all life is exterminated, whichever comes first. Leave us alone and you will have no reason to see any of our cannons or missiles aimed at you.

With that said, we will now continue our observing of events. That is all we intend to do here as long as no trial comes to pass.

-Dictator Enigma
Ruler of the DemonLordEnigma Empire

OOC: In other words, I'm remaining neutral. If both groups want to fight/annex each other/whatever, just leave me out of it.

IC:

The policy will remain in place, however we have granted DemonLordEnigma an amnesty from this action due to their statement and intelligence from the Knights Templar about their lack of hostile intent.

-Random Guild Bureaucrat