NationStates Jolt Archive

This might be repeated once or twice here, but, I state, that this idea

Needs quite a bit of work, and some constructive critism to flesh it out a bit.

Inertial Drive:

This is just some idea I had been toying with for literally years about an FT sub-light propulsion device that has practically now bindings in real science now, but I post this in hopes of giving it some, somehow, in some way. As the name would suggest, it works off of inertia (I think.) . Now, before you continue on reading this, or leave, note that this drive would need some very big things to happen, like trapping a micro black hole or some other rapidly spinning object. If you’re one who considers the previous to be just some dumb day dream, or something that would never ever work, no matter how far into the future, then nothing’s keeping you here, and you can leave now. For the rest, I hope you read on. (Although there isn’t much to this idea right now…)

The basic idea is this. A black hole or some other rapidly spinning object would be contained in some sort of chamber. The chamber I envision is a sphere, and is lined with little devices. These devices would gather the inertia of the spinning object, and somehow, transfer this to the rest of the ship in some kind of network that runs throughout the ship. This network in my mind has always been like a network of cables that runs the length of the ship. Why cables, I have no idea, but that’s just how it came to look like in my mind. The network would in a way, point the inertia to whatever direction the ship would need to go. Inertia is the resistance to a change in an object motion, and this is meant to change what, er…change…in motion, the inertia resists…or something like that. I’m not sure how clearly I can explain it. Please, ask questions. I need some kind of criticism to work out the particulars of this idea.

EDIT: Actually, it doesn't even nessasarily need to be FT, just any feed back would be nice.

This might be repeated once or twice here, but, I state, that this idea

Needs quite a bit of work, and some constructive critism to flesh it out a bit.

Inertial Drive:

This is just some idea I had been toying with for literally years about an FT sub-light propulsion device that has practically now bindings in real science now, but I post this in hopes of giving it some, somehow, in some way. As the name would suggest, it works off of inertia (I think.) . Now, before you continue on reading this, or leave, note that this drive would need some very big things to happen, like trapping a micro black hole or some other rapidly spinning object. If you’re one who considers the previous to be just some dumb day dream, or something that would never ever work, no matter how far into the future, then nothing’s keeping you here, and you can leave now. For the rest, I hope you read on. (Although there isn’t much to this idea right now…)

The basic idea is this. A black hole or some other rapidly spinning object would be contained in some sort of chamber. The chamber I envision is a sphere, and is lined with little devices. These devices would gather the inertia of the spinning object, and somehow, transfer this to the rest of the ship in some kind of network that runs throughout the ship. This network in my mind has always been like a network of cables that runs the length of the ship. Why cables, I have no idea, but that’s just how it came to look like in my mind. The network would in a way, point the inertia to whatever direction the ship would need to go. Inertia is the resistance to a change in an object motion, and this is meant to change what, er…change…in motion, the inertia resists…or something like that. I’m not sure how clearly I can explain it. Please, ask questions. I need some kind of criticism to work out the particulars of this idea.

EDIT: Actually, it doesn't even nessasarily need to be FT, just any feed back would be nice.


Inertial-less drive you mean...

Inertial-less drive you mean...

Nooo... Ummm, should it mean that? Or have I just made a huge fool of my self here?

Nooo... Ummm, should it mean that? Or have I just made a huge fool of my self here?

You have the basic concept... the point is that with an inertial-less drive, one could drift through space and pivot from the center of the ship, allowing you to turn on a dime and stop quickly, cause there is no inertia to fight against... although its hard to pilot something like that without tons of practice.

((If you have played EV Nova as either the Vell-os or Polaris, their ships are inertial-less (the Raven is the Polaris's only inertial-less ship).))

Sounds like you've been reading Charles Stross. The ships in his novels use micro-blackholes to move.

You have the basic concept... the point is that with an inertial-less drive, one could drift through space and pivot from the center of the ship, allowing you to turn on a dime and stop quickly, cause there is no inertia to fight against... although its hard to pilot something like that without tons of practice.

((If you have played EV Nova as either the Vell-os or Polaris, their ships are inertial-less (the Raven is the Polaris's only inertial-less ship).))

Sorry, haven't heard of either of those. But I think you misunderstand a bit. I'm not taking away inertia, I'm trying to redirect it.

Sounds like you've been reading Charles Stross. The ships in his novels use micro-blackholes to move.

*Feeling kinda of left out* I haven't read that either... This idea I came up with independently. I'm positive that someone had to have come up with the same thing, or at least something close to it at one point or another, but at the time that I thought of it, I never heard it from anywhere.

I’m very interested in this especially as a fighter thing ,do you think it would be possible for our nations to work on it together icly one day ? , and it sounds like its pretty well explained to.

I’m very interested in this especially as a fighter thing ,do you think it would be possible for our nations to work on it together icly one day ? , and it sounds like its pretty well explained to.

Thank you, and to your question, well of course. But I would like to get some bearing as to what needs to be developed first before any research can start. Which is the purpose of this post.

Read this: http://www.newenergymovement.org/a_escape_gravity.htm

It has some information you may find useful for your project, and I believe it states what things you will have to research. Plus, it explains harnessing a vacuum to create energy as efficient or better than nuclear power.

What you've described is a supermassive gyroscope. It uses conservation of momentum to rotate objects. The gyroscope spins onw way and to conserve it's momentum the object it is in spins the other. The Hubble Telescope uses them to point itself.

It wouldn't work for linear acceleration but it would be great for angular(rotation) acceleration.

Read this: http://www.newenergymovement.org/a_escape_gravity.htm

It has some information you may find useful for your project, and I believe it states what things you will have to research. Plus, it explains harnessing a vacuum to create energy as efficient or better than nuclear power.

Ahh, I see that site handily ignores several basic physicals laws. I'd ignore it if I were you. I mean for crying out loud it claims actual working perpetual motion machines. That site's a bunch of pseudoscientific BS.

Read this: http://www.newenergymovement.org/a_escape_gravity.htm

It has some information you may find useful for your project, and I believe it states what things you will have to research. Plus, it explains harnessing a vacuum to create energy as efficient or better than nuclear power.

Thanks, will take a look!

What I find some what amusing is that the very idea to use vacuum energy for power, and an inertial drive for propulsion all came to me one day in eighth grade social studies class... I thought up the ideas on my own, with out ever coming across it anywhere else. (What did I expect middle school science to teach me? quasars, zero point energy?). I thought it was so original then too. I soon found out the very next day, after looking up on-line and in my library that it's been thought up before. Lol, I should've known.

Xessmithia , you crushed my dreams... :( (I am kidding.)

Like zero point energy (aka ZPE?)

I use ZPE as some reactors my new cruiser uses ZPE.. well a ZPM

Xessmithia , you crushed my dreams... (I am kidding.)

Like I said, it would be a kick ass rotational drive. You could use it get your heavy spinal-mount weapons targeted very quick.

What you've described is a supermassive gyroscope. It uses conservation of momentum to rotate objects. The gyroscope spins onw way and to conserve it's momentum the object it is in spins the other. The Hubble Telescope uses them to point itself.

It wouldn't work for linear acceleration but it would be great for angular(rotation) acceleration.

That's just the kind of knowledge I think would help. Do you think that there would be a way to make it work, generate linear motion?

check your TG's Kyanges btw)

check your TG's Kyanges btw)

Yep, responded.

Ahh, I see that site handily ignores several basic physicals laws. I'd ignore it if I were you. I mean for crying out loud it claims actual working perpetual motion machines. That site's a bunch of pseudoscientific BS.

All of NationStates is pseuodoscientific bullshit, otherwise we wouldn't have mile long battleships and nations with millions of genetically engineered supersoldiers hailed as the king of roleplaying. *cough*Automagfreek*cough*

That's just the kind of knowledge I think would help. Do you think that there would be a way to make it work, generate linear motion?

Not that I can think of. However if you can spin a black-hole that fast you wouldn't have any problems making a kick ass Ion drive or reactionless thruster system. The RT is a pure sci-fi invention but I'm talking about NS and power generation so you could do it.

All of NationStates is pseuodoscientific bullshit, otherwise we wouldn't have mile long battleships and nations with millions of genetically engineered supersoldiers hailed as the king of roleplaying. *cough*Automagfreek*cough*

And most of NS doesn't violate fundamental laws like Thermodynamics. FTL and such is indeed impossible but they're also sci-fi conventions and as such leave them alone. However there is no bloody need to make up perpetual motion machines and free energy. Making up some ultra-high energy density fuel is far better than "energry from nothing".

Not that I can think of. However if you can spin a black-hole that fast you wouldn't have any problems making a kick ass Ion drive or reactionless thruster system. The RT is a pure sci-fi invention but I'm talking about NS and power generation so you could do it.

Alright, you've got me very interested. I can say right off, that I don't know as much about physics as you, but I do have a definite interest. Can you please explain a bit further how a super fast black hole would help make the things you listed above?

And most of NS doesn't violate fundamental laws like Thermodynamics. FTL and such is indeed impossible but they're also sci-fi conventions and as such leave them alone. However there is no bloody need to make up perpetual motion machines and free energy. Making up some ultra-high energy density fuel is far better than "energry from nothing".

Vacuum point energy isn't energy from nothing, just as making a gravitational slingshot isn't getting energy from nothing.

These methods both use a very big something to contribute a tiny fraction of its energy budget to a much smaller something which regards that same energy as a very big deal indeed.

In the case of vacuum point energy, that something is the quantum foam underlying reality.

Alright, you've got me very interested. I can say right off, that I don't know as much about physics as you, but I do have a definite interest. Can you please explain a bit further how a super fast black hole would help make the things you listed above?

Being able to spin a black-hole means you have access to fairly large amounts of energy. It would take a lot to get that kind of mass moving quickly. So it's not a stretch to build and ion drive or some other drive for linear acceleration from the energy you use to spin the black hole.

It's not some fancy way to use the black hole for linear acceleration.

It's not some fancy way to use the black hole for linear acceleration.

Which was kinda what I was hoping for. Is there a way that you can think without pseuodoscience that I could get linear acceleration from a black hole? I've thought about it, and pseuodoscience is about the only way that I can get a drive that some what near what I'm looking for.

You wouldn't hate me for going to pseuodoscience if this leads nowhere would you?

Vacuum point energy isn't energy from nothing, just as making a gravitational slingshot isn't getting energy from nothing.

These methods both use a very big something to contribute a tiny fraction of its energy budget to a much smaller something which regards that same energy as a very big deal indeed.

In the case of vacuum point energy, that something is the quantum foam underlying reality.

The ZPE energy thing is based of a mathmatical abstraction. No competent scientist would say you could run a power generator off of it. Why is that you ask? Becasue it would violate conservation of energy. Could it be true? Sure it could, but so could the theory that the sun is pulled across the sky by invisible horses.

You can't just latch on to fringe ideas like they're mainstream well supported theories. Look for evidence for crying out loud.

The ZPE energy thing is based of a mathmatical abstraction. No competent scientist would say you could run a power generator off of it. Why is that you ask? Becasue it would violate conservation of energy. Could it be true? Sure it could, but so could the theory that the sun is pulled across the sky by invisible horses.

You can't just latch on to fringe ideas like they're mainstream well supported theories. Look for evidence for crying out loud.

I thought there was some article in PopSci about some team using zero point energy to actually move a nanoscopic lever. Did you find somewhere that that turned out to be false? I mean, moving a tiny lever isn't exactly a power source, but at least it's some proof that it exists I think. I should go and try to find this article again...

(I've also posted something above.)

Which was kinda what I was hoping for. Is there a way that you can think without pseuodoscience that I could get linear acceleration from a black hole? I've thought about it, and pseuodoscience is about the only way that I can get a drive that some what near what I'm looking for.

You wouldn't hate me for going to pseuodoscience if this leads nowhere would you?

If you want non-pseudoscience ways of using black-holes for propulsion you fling them out the back of your ship at hig speeds. Thus acting like a black hole rocket, where the black holes are the reactant.

Or you could feed matter into the black hole in a zero-g environ so you get an accretion disk which you could design to get those huge gas jets, which you could then direct out the back of your ship for thrust.

I thought there was some article in PopSci about some team using zero point energy to actually move a nanoscopic lever. Did you find somewhere that that turned out to be false? I mean, moving a tiny lever isn't exactly a power source, but at least it's some proof that it exists I think. I should go and try to find this article again...

(I've also posted something above.)

Never heard about that, but PopSci is a general science magazine intended for laymen so I wouldn't put too much stock into it. And there are plenty of well known less exotic things that could move a nanoscale lever. So it doesn't conclude anything.

If you want non-pseudoscience ways of using black-holes for propulsion you fling them out the back of your ship at hig speeds. Thus acting like a black hole rocket, where the black holes are the reactant.

Or you could feed matter into the black hole in a zero-g environ so you get an accretion disk which you could design to get those huge gas jets, which you could then direct out the back of your ship for thrust.

For the second one, you mean like in quasars? I've thought of that, but doesn't it take a huge amount of matter to get the black hole to do that? Like slowly dumping the mass of a star into it?

@ your post above: I see...Hmmm, I'll have to find that thing so you can make a more informed judgment [about the article.]

For the second one, you mean like in quasars? I've thought of that, but doesn't it take a huge amount of matter to get the black hole to do that? Like slowly dumping the mass of a star into it?

@ your post above: I see...Hmmm, I'll have to find that thing so you can make a more informed judgment [about the article.]

Depends on how hot the gasses are and other things I can't remember. If you did it right you do it with less mass.

I'll certainly read the article if you find it. However as a general science magazine PopSci will cater to the general public obviously. And they tend to like new and fringe ideas so they're more likely to have articles that support said fringe theories than ones that don't. You should keep that in mind.

Depends on how hot the gasses are and other things I can't remember. If you did it right you do it with less mass.

I'll certainly read the article if you find it. However as a general science magazine PopSci will cater to the general public obviously. And they tend to like new and fringe ideas so they're more likely to have articles that support said fringe theories than ones that don't. You should keep that in mind.

Hmmm... I guess I'll find out how to do it right.

I'll will, and thank you for what you've done so far Xessmithia. You've definately helped me.

EDIT: I'll try to find it tonight.

Xess, I've been meaning to discuss something with you, do you have any form of instant message program?

Xess, I've been meaning to discuss something with you, do you have any form of instant message program?

Yes I do. I use MSN, tergwher@hotmail.com.

Hmmm... I guess I'll find out how to do it right.

I'll will, and thank you for what you've done so far Xessmithia. You've definately helped me.

EDIT: I'll try to find it tonight.

You're welcome.

read david webers honor harring ton novels they might give you some ideas. but if you dont want to do that you could use an impeller wedge, which is a pair of focused planes of gravitic energy open on both ends to provide limitless acceleration. the only issue would be inertial compensators which i havent figured out yet