NationStates Jolt Archive

The first of Novikov's new model Diesel-Electric submarines set out on trial runs today. This even not only signaled the begining of Novikov's new naval program, but brough Novikov into the international limelight as an arms dealer. A modified version of the NPM-N (Novikov People's Military - Naval Branch) SS-01 has been released for export. Statistics after protoype testing have been released:



NPM-N SS-01E "Swordfish" Deisel Electric Sub (Export Model)

Displacement: 1.789 tons (1.967 tons submerged)

Dimensions: 62 meters x 7 meters x 5 meters

Propulsion: Diesel-Electric Motor (4.200 shp), Single Shaft, Five-Bladed Screw

Crew: 49

Sonar: Tamir-5L active, passive hull arrays

Radar: Basic Mushroom Radar (Adapted from MiG-21)

Armament: Five 533mm Torpedoe Tubes (Four Forward, One Aft), Provisions For Two SA-N-08 Gremlin SAM's mounted in watertight casing against the conning tower.

Stores: Twelve Torpedoes or Fourteen Mines

Endurance: 8.800 km / 800 km submerged / 24,5 km full run

Speed: 19 knots surfaced (14 crusing) / 29 knots submerged (11 crusing)

Maximum Depth: 200 Meters Recomeded, 310 Crush Depth

This may not be the most high performance submarine on the market; it's main comparison being the Russian Romeo. However, as a Diesel-Electric, it is silent and effective. It's hull design attempts, with partial sucess, to maintain the standard boat-shape of older Novikovian Subs, while adding greater streamlining and rounding to improve preformance underwater, with mixed sucess. Limited range and fuel make this boat suited for defensive action in home waters, or for short forrays against shipping in international waters. Effective in it's own regard, this ship makes a good addition to any defensive fleet, particularly for stil growing nations.

Cost: $178.000.000 USD ($171.000.000 USD production cost)

$1.700.000.000 USD for production rights (note: This design may NOT be altered after purchasing the production rights, NOR may it be sold by any foreign power without consent of the Novikovian Government.)



If you are interested, contact:

Novikov Ministry of Defense
Director of the Navy Mikhal Gregori
PO Box G-003N
Poldi'sk, Novikov

All prices are non-negotiable.

Bump. Please buy some if you're interested; I could use the business.

This is Cournel Sanders of the Rogue Nation of Planet Spaceball IV. I am interested in purchising 12 of your new subs, for a total cost of $588 million. If you can fill this order, let us talk.

Cournel Sanders
Defense Balls
Planet Spaceball IV

I can fill that order in one year, six months. With transport time, expect those in two NS years. I would also prefer if you could pay in full.

Excellent! President Scrube will be very pleased. Just let me know where i can wire the payment to and we will have a deal.

Cournel Sanders
Defense Balls
Planet Spaceball IV

Pretty sweet Sub. I haven't made any yet, but I have made alot of surface vessels. Keep up the good work ;)

OOC: It looks pretty good from what I can tell (is it based on the Romeo?), but one thing I'd question is the number of torpedo tubes. They're usually set up in an even number, such as four or six, and for true effectiveness, you might need six. With the size of the sub, though, I might use four torpedo tubes. You could also use a torpedo similar to the EuroTorp and pack six torpedo tubes on there if you plan to use it against submarines.

Another thing I'd ask is if the sub is in a boat shape or in a teardrop shape. A teardrop gives you good submerged performance but is not so great for surface running, while a boat shape is actually faster surfaced than it is submerged.

Also, the purchase price is way too low. I've seen SSKs (which is what you're selling) go for approximately $400 million-$500 million or thereabouts. One thing about production rights, you may want to specify that they refer only to production rights, and not to distribution rights. It would prevent someone else from selling the sub as their own.

All in all though, not a bad job for a first design. You took into account some disadvantages as you wrote your description and you described it pretty well. I wish you luck with this and other future designs! :)

Why would you build a diesel-electric sub? Besides being inefficient, its combat potential and ability to remain submerged for long periods of time would be poor compared to a nuclear sub. We know that you intend it for homeland defense, but a nuclear sub would be able to launch nuclear missiles, operate at a greater range, and it would be significantly faster than a diesel-electric. Also, a sub designed for homeland defense would have little use for quieter operation, as stealth would not be an issue, and it would still be outmatched by a well-designed nuclear attack sub.

Freudotopia laughs at you...a-HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Why would you build a diesel-electric sub? Besides being inefficient, its combat potential and ability to remain submerged for long periods of time would be poor compared to a nuclear sub. We know that you intend it for homeland defense, but a nuclear sub would be able to launch nuclear missiles, operate at a greater range, and it would be significantly faster than a diesel-electric. Also, a sub designed for homeland defense would have little use for quieter operation, as stealth would not be an issue, and it would still be outmatched by a well-designed nuclear attack sub.

Freudotopia laughs at you...a-HAHAHAHAHAHA!

And I'd like to see you design a better sub than this solid thing.

I'm hardly an expert in the field, but I would be amazed if it were possible to sell a small, unremarkable (that's not meant as a criticism of the design!) D/E submarine for hundred of millions of dollars, Sarzonia. Seriously, what about it would justify that sort of expense? I think it makes sense as it is... it may be a little cheap, but not absurdly so. I'm almost fully sure that tens rather than hundreds of millions is proper in this case.

I won't even try to address Freudotopia's interjection, and I don't know enough about submarine design to critique the original design, I'm afraid, except to look a little surprised to see an aircraft radar on a submarine.

Why would you build a diesel-electric sub? Besides being inefficient, its combat potential and ability to remain submerged for long periods of time would be poor compared to a nuclear sub. We know that you intend it for homeland defense, but a nuclear sub would be able to launch nuclear missiles, operate at a greater range, and it would be significantly faster than a diesel-electric. Also, a sub designed for homeland defense would have little use for quieter operation, as stealth would not be an issue, and it would still be outmatched by a well-designed nuclear attack sub.

Freudotopia laughs at you...a-HAHAHAHAHAHA!

OoC:

Diesel subs are used for homeland defence mainly, there also very quiet because their electric engines requires very little moving parts whereas a nuclear sub must keep its pumps active. Here, let me show you.

Diesel Subs Feast on U.S. Carriers

While Canadian submarines have routinely taken on U.S. Navy carriers, other small navies have enjoyed similar victories. The Royal Netherlands Navy, with its small force of extremely quiet diesel submarines, has made the U.S. Navy eat the proverbial slice of humble pie on more than one occasion. In 1989, naval analyst Norman Polmar wrote in Naval Forces that during NATO s exercise Northern Star, the Dutch submarine Zwaardvis was the only orange (enemy) submarine to successfully stalk and sink a blue (allied) aircraft carrier Ten years later there were reports that the Dutch submarine Walrus had been even more successful in the exercise JTFEX/TMDI99.

During this exercise the Walrus penetrates the U.S. screen and sinks many ships, including the U.S. aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T- shirt. Fittingly, the T-shirt depicted the USS Theodore Roosevelt impaled on the tusks of a walrus. It was also reported that the Walrus also sank many of the Roosevelt's escorts, including the nuclear submarine USS Boise, a cruiser, several destroyers and frigates, plus the command ship USS Mount Whitney. The Walrus herself survived the exercise with no damage.

Not to be outdone by the Canadians and Dutch, the Australian submarine force has also scored many goals against U.S. Navy carriers and nuclear submarines. On September 24 2003, the Australian newspaper The Age disclosed that Australia's Collins class diesel submarines had taught the U.S. Navy a few lessons during multinational exercises. By the end of the exercises, Australian submarines had destroyed two U.S. Navy nuclear attack submarines and an aircraft carrier. According to the article: The Americans were wide-eyed, Commodore Deeks (Commander of the RAN Submarine Group) said. They realized that another navies knows how to operate submarines.
They were quite impressed.

Why would you build a diesel-electric sub? <snip> it would still be outmatched by a well-designed nuclear attack sub.

Some nations don't like having potential radioactive disasters sitting in their harbours, for instance.

Cournel Sanders
Defense Balls
Planet Spaceball IV


its COLONEL



and nuclear subs are better: less noise, better propulsion, more weapons, better defenses, etc. (that description is as civilian as it gets)

As I said...diesel-electric subs run more silently...

As I said...diesel-electric subs run more silently...


im sorry but your intelligence is flawed in this topic. the American Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine actually ABSORBS sound from the ocean. like a whisper at a rock show or a black hole. the ocean itself is noisier than the Ohio fleet, along with the two new fast attack additions: the Seawolf- and Virginia-classes.

Look boy, don't argue with me, DIESEL ELECTRIC SUBS ARE MORE SILENT THEN NUCLEAR ONES.

There's absolutely nothing you can do about that and no absorbing has nothing to do with it.

Diesel-electric is much quieter than a nuclear sub, especially when running on electric. Nuclear is preferable because it allows for much longer overall range and range submerged.

This sub design is excellent, and I would buy some if I was in the mood to buy stuff.

Naval Snipers this is very simple. Nuclear subs have nuclear reactors. Nuclear reactors need to be cooled. To circulate coolant one needs pumps. Pumps tend to be noisy and are in most cases the noisiest part of a submarine. Add in all the other moving parts of a reactor, the hissing of steam, spinning of the turbines etc. and you can see how a nuclear submarine can be detected on sonar.

Now take a Diesel-Electric. When this kind of sub is running on batteries there are hardly any moving parts. The only thing moving is the driveshaft which makes almost no soud. Therefore there is no discernable noise from one of these subs while it runs on batteries, unless you can hear electrical current.

This makes the Diesel-Electric sub, running on batteries, the most fearsome adversary for any other sub or surface ship becuase if you can't hear it, how can you kill it, or even know its there?

The Holy Republic of Zelsa, to ensure its coastal defense program, would be willing to purchase three of these superbly designed vessels. Due to the potentiality of a conflict in our near future, we ask that already-produced vessels be sent, as we cannot wait the months or years for the vessels. If required, we can pay extra to a point, otherwise we will have to pay on a payment schedule.

We wish to thank you ahead of time for your consideration.

$320.000.000 USD for production and design rights.



The Virginian Enlightened Combine, seeing this submarine, wishes to buy the rights for this design to provide the Virginian Navy with a good coastal defense sub.

Money will be wired upon confirmation.

Jennifer MacDonald
Asst. C-in-C
Def. Directorate
Virginian Enlightened Combine

Well, I'm amaized that I got this many replys without any other purchases. Yes, this is based loosely on the Romeo (It's shorter, lighter weight, faster and carries SAMs.) No I was not able to find production costs on any similar subs, including the Romeo, so I guesstimated a price. I ahve gone and revised that price to make it more reasonable. However, orders made before this revision will not be subject to the price increase.

Next, I'll try to adress the questions brought up.

First, Deisel-Electrics are more slent because of the electric component in their name. Running off of batteries, a deisel electric is far more silent than a nuclear sub. Nuclear subs have the advantage of longer run time submerged, longer deployment range, and less fuel expendature. Every comparison or account of these two designs attests to this fact.

Next, why would I use five tubes? I took some liberty in this design, using the Romeo more as a comparison, as well as some of the old German U-Boats of WWII. The Type VIIC was the origional insperation for this frame (in fact, in envisioned a simmilar boat serving as a blueprint for the design features). The Type VII uses a five-tube layout, reserving the rear tube for emergency and point defense. Because of the shortened size, I decided that one tube would make space for added fuel stores or a larger Deisel Motor. Thus, the five-tube design was what I chose, giving the needed defense, while maintaining the principal means of attack (the four frontal tubes) in its origional position.

Finally, the issue of frame design. I am sorry that this wasn't adressed in my origional post. I imagine a frame like the German Type XXI Design, bridging the gap between the older boat form and the more rounded teardrop. This is perhaps not the best example to site, so picture a boat shape, but rounded, almost like a triangle laid over a sphere (again, bad example, but it's all I can think of right now).

Okay. One last thing. Freudotopia, you have no idea about sub deplyment or tactics. When this was designed, the envisioned idea is a silent submersable being used in coordinated ambush tactics against hostile shipping and fleets. Stealth is always an issue for a submarine, in coastal waters or not. The supposed superiority of nuclear subs perhaps gives them a wider appeal, but it seems that those who understand naval tactics still value the Deisel Electric in it's chosen role, as a silent killer. I'll pit my sub against any comparable Nuclear Sub you can design and I gaurantee, I will come out on top.

I won't even try to address Freudotopia's interjection, and I don't know enough about submarine design to critique the original design, I'm afraid, except to look a little surprised to see an aircraft radar on a submarine.

Id guess that they are for the SAMs he has on the sub, but I cant really say this for sure.

Anywho, Novikov, pretty nice ship you got there. Any discounts for IADF members? *wink wink*

The Real ALM, I just increased all the prices, including production rights. I'm sorry that my edit was posted at such an inoppertune moment, I'm sure we can negotiate.

Zelsa, we can ship one combat-ready sub for an aditional 10.000.000 USD (be sure to see new prices.) However, this leaves our navy in a dificult position and we therefore are unable to complete your request.

A very nice deisel sub =) If any of my four city states had any internationally recognised currency or the technical knowledge to operate such vessels, and if the aquatic flora and fauna were't quite so hostile, I'd snap them up.

And Dumpsterdam, calm down. Shouting only gets them more excited.

Naval snipers: While they do use tiling that absorbs sound, the machinery noise is still signifigant. Ohios are very very quiet and hard to find on passive... a modern deisel sub is even quieter. They are more or less impossible to find in shallow water without a lucky pass from a MAD equipped vehicle... given the range of mad, if you find a deisel sub with it, you're already dead.

Yes, Nascent, that was the idea. I actually pictured a Helo going dome-down with an active bouy only to essentially have the sub it's hunting go "dome-up" with a mushroom radar and hit it with a SAM. Big suprise for the Helo.

For IADF members, I'll give a 3.000.000 USD discount. Nothing more. Glad you liked the design.

OOC: Well, perhaps a payment plan will suffice? Five payments of USD$340,000,000 over a period of time, in exchange for the rights.

Does this mean you will ship one immediately? Or none at all? Thank you.

The Real ALM.

340.000.000 USD/year sounds fine.

Zelsa:

One sub will be shipped immediately after the money is sent, so long as you provide it's crew with a means of returning to Novikov once the vessel is delivered.

The Real ALM.

340.000.000 USD/year sounds fine.



Deal. The first payment is being wired now, in exchange, pelase send the plans ASAP.

Plans sent. My thanks for your patronage.

thank you, we shall do everything you ask. Money wired.

Confirmed and bump.

Another big ol' bump.

NPM-N SS-01E-2 "Swordfish II" Deisel Electric Sub (Export Model)

Displacement: 1.797 tons (1.975 tons submerged)

Dimensions: 62 meters x 7.2 meters x 5.5 meters

Propulsion: Two Diesel-Electric Motors (Total 4.600 shp), Single Shaft, Five-Bladed Screw

Crew: 49

Sonar: Tamir-5L active, passive hull arrays

Radar: Basic Mushroom Radar (Adapted from MiG-21), SA-13 Tracking Radar, useable at under 30 meters.

Armament: Five 533mm Torpedoe Tubes (Four Forward, One Aft), Provisions for four SA-N-08 Gremlin SAM's mounted in watertight casing against the conning tower.

Stores: Twelve Torpedoes or Fourteen Mines

Endurance: 8.200 km / 800 km submerged / 24,5 km full run

Speed: 21 knots surfaced (15 crusing) / 31 knots submerged (13 crusing)

Maximum Depth: 180 Meters Recomeded, 290 Crush Depth

The major modification to this design is the introduction of a dual-motor system, instead of the single motor in the previous design. This answers the major complaint that Novikov's captains have made, that engine trouble renders the SS-01E-1 Model immobile until the problem is repaired. This new dual-engine design remedies the problem by allowing the boat to move under power of just one engine. These engines also allow for an increase of 400 shp, giving the boat 2 knots more speed surfaced and submerged. The final advantage this boat has over the origional is simply an aditional two SAMs, as well as a better radar system to help targeting.

The cost of this modification, over 600 km in range due to smaller fuel tanks. Slight size variations were also made to the frame, resulting in a slightly weaker build, leading to a lower maximum depth.

Cost: 180.000.000 USD (176.000.000 USD Production Cost)
Production Rights: 1.800.000.000 USD (Same conditions as before)

This is Colonel Sanders again. WE would like to order 12 of you new subs for a total of $2,160,000,000. The first batch are working great, but we like to remain up to date on things.

Colonel Sanders
Defense Balls
Planet Spaceball IV

Some nations don't like having potential radioactive disasters sitting in their harbours, for instance.

Like who?

Well, I'm amaized that I got this many replys without any other purchases. Yes, this is based loosely on the Romeo (It's shorter, lighter weight, faster and carries SAMs.) No I was not able to find production costs on any similar subs, including the Romeo, so I guesstimated a price. I ahve gone and revised that price to make it more reasonable. However, orders made before this revision will not be subject to the price increase.

Next, I'll try to adress the questions brought up.

First, Deisel-Electrics are more slent because of the electric component in their name. Running off of batteries, a deisel electric is far more silent than a nuclear sub. Nuclear subs have the advantage of longer run time submerged, longer deployment range, and less fuel expendature. Every comparison or account of these two designs attests to this fact.

Next, why would I use five tubes? I took some liberty in this design, using the Romeo more as a comparison, as well as some of the old German U-Boats of WWII. The Type VIIC was the origional insperation for this frame (in fact, in envisioned a simmilar boat serving as a blueprint for the design features). The Type VII uses a five-tube layout, reserving the rear tube for emergency and point defense. Because of the shortened size, I decided that one tube would make space for added fuel stores or a larger Deisel Motor. Thus, the five-tube design was what I chose, giving the needed defense, while maintaining the principal means of attack (the four frontal tubes) in its origional position.

Finally, the issue of frame design. I am sorry that this wasn't adressed in my origional post. I imagine a frame like the German Type XXI Design, bridging the gap between the older boat form and the more rounded teardrop. This is perhaps not the best example to site, so picture a boat shape, but rounded, almost like a triangle laid over a sphere (again, bad example, but it's all I can think of right now).

Okay. One last thing. Freudotopia, you have no idea about sub deplyment or tactics. When this was designed, the envisioned idea is a silent submersable being used in coordinated ambush tactics against hostile shipping and fleets. Stealth is always an issue for a submarine, in coastal waters or not. The supposed superiority of nuclear subs perhaps gives them a wider appeal, but it seems that those who understand naval tactics still value the Deisel Electric in it's chosen role, as a silent killer. I'll pit my sub against any comparable Nuclear Sub you can design and I gaurantee, I will come out on top.

OOC:
I disagree, because I would use nuclear subs to annhilate your shipyards, crippling your ability to counterstrike, and I am so much larger than you that I would eat you without even opening my mouth. Dont tempt me.

As soon as my sub captains reach an area with significant opfor presence, they would engage active sonar and rely on tactical brilliance and superior weaponry, manueverablity, and speed.

I also wouldn't have to rely on my navy, because I'm sure the army and air forcce would make short work of you.

How willing would the Novikov Ministry of Defense be to sell the Kingdom some of these vessels?

~ Romandeos Royal Navy Representative.

im sorry but your intelligence is flawed in this topic. the American Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine actually ABSORBS sound from the ocean. like a whisper at a rock show or a black hole. the ocean itself is noisier than the Ohio fleet, along with the two new fast attack additions: the Seawolf- and Virginia-classes.

So is that the secret to the Ohio? The Seawolf and Virginia both use the propulsor which makes high pressure behind the shroud so that when the prop moves it doesn't create bubbles. That's where the sound comes from, essentially. But the Ohio doesn't have that, albeit it has a huge prop on it, so less RPMs = less noise. But how exactly does the Ohio absorb the sound from the ocean?

But yes, Diesel-Electric are quieter. Nuclear subs are ID'd by their reactor plant noise, something that gives them away but you have to be close and/or on top of them to hear it. DEs on electric are whispher silent. Diesel mode is loud as hell.

The German U-214 is a DE but it uses an air-independent propulsion system with fuel cells. It makes running on electric so much more efficient and it snorkels once every 3 weeks!!!

OOC:

Okay, listen up.

I know my critique of Novikov's submarine might have stirred up some controversy, and maybe even a little anger. I could, of course, continue to argue naval strategy and submarine design with all of you, but that would be an atrocious waste of time.

If you don't like what I've said, fine. If you agree, congratulations. I won't be buying any of Novikov's subs, mainly because they don't have a real place in my fleet. If you all want to purchase any, fine by me. Go away.

Godspeed, Novikov.

The purchase of additional diesel-electric submarines to our Naval Defence Fleet is unrequired, however should such a demand occur in the future then we would like to retain the ability to begin speedy construction.
As such we wish to acquire productions rights, until we begin construction of our own vessels we would be willing to provide additional construction capacity for yourselves.

Construction of submarines for sale by Novikov would be made and sold to Novikov at 85% of sale price, we believe this is adequate for the extra capacity of being able to offer twenty-five boats a year.

ISDF Spokesperson

OOC:
I disagree, because I would use nuclear subs to annhilate your shipyards, crippling your ability to counterstrike, and I am so much larger than you that I would eat you without even opening my mouth. Dont tempt me.

As soon as my sub captains reach an area with significant opfor presence, they would engage active sonar and rely on tactical brilliance and superior weaponry, manueverablity, and speed.

I also wouldn't have to rely on my navy, because I'm sure the army and air forcce would make short work of you.

try it on me, im sure all his allies would beat you, and mine would, i've got a nice little region who could do with a nice little RP...

What you've said is wrong, and im not even that good on subs! i can tell you that nuclear subs are fine, their great for missile subs because they need the range, but if you just want to trail a few enemy ships or subs and take them out in home waters then its a LOT better, would you like one of your nuclear subs blowing up when its in home waters?

I dont like having nuclear subs anywhere near my mainland, thats why most of them are situated on island bases, and also a good reason for russia keeping its active subs up in some cold ice areas, where they can't get taken out that easily.

Bassically, i diasagree with you and think your a bit of a n00b, when someone that knows what their talking about speaks(e.g dumpsterdamn) you shouldn't argue, espaeccialy when EVERYONE else agrees.[/thread hijack]

NovikovOOC: very nice first design!
IC: If it would be possible to produce a scaled up version of the exceptional submarine containing 6 Torpedo Tubes in normal configuration VP would be glad to purchase two Submarine Squadrons from you immediatly, with further orders probable.

Thankyou, President Benjamin Hondrugas

OOC: Sorry, I've been having internet problems.

First, Freudotopia. In regards to an overall campaign against Novikov (or by Novikov), I would surely loose. I'm halting population growth at fourteen million because I want to remain a regional power and nothing else, for christ sakes. What I was saying was that, at sea in a 1-on-1 exercise, this design would have AT LEAST equal odds of sucess as an Ohio Class sub. If you'd like to test that, I'm sure we can arrange a test.

IC:

Vast Principles,

Currently we are in the design stages of a design simmilar to what you have mentioned. When these designs are complete, we would be happy to fill your request for any number of these boats.

Ulyanov.

Tom Joad,

If your government could set up a payment plan for these designs, as well as specify which version, "Swordfish" or Swordfish II", you are refering too, we would be happy to fill such a request.

Ulyanov.

Romandeos,

We are very interested in selling a small number of these boats, either type. If your government is interested in making a purchase, please do so and we will be happy to comply.

Ulyanov.

Planet Spaceball IV,

Our government is slowing naval production, so we will only be able to ship four submarines to you every year. If this is acceptable, respond with a payment plan.

Ulyanov.

NPM-N SS-02E "Sabre" Deisel Electric Sub (Export Model)

Displacement: 1.957 tons (2.165 tons submerged)

Dimensions: 75 meters x 8.5 meters x 6.25 meters

Propulsion: Three Diesel-Electric Motors (Total 6.750 shp), One Compacted "Creeping" Electric Motor (600 shp), Single Shaft, Five-Bladed Screw

Crew: 48

Sonar: MGK-400 Shark Gill LF active/passive, Sintra DUUX 5 low-frequency passive

Radar: SA-13 Tracking Radar.

Countermeasures: ESM, Radar warning and directional finder

Design Features: Rubber sonar-absorbing tiles mounted over the boat frame.

Armament: Six 533mm Torpedo Tubes (Four Forward, Two Aft) capable of firing the YJ-8 series anti-ship cruise missiles, Six SA-N-08 Gremlin SAMs mounted atop conning tower.

Stores: Fourteen Torpedoes or Twenty-Eight Mines, Two Cruse Missiles

Endurance: 10.200 km / 1.100 km submerged / 32 km full run

Speed-Primary Engines: 20 knots surfaced (13 crusing) / 33 knots submerged (13 crusing)

Speed-Secondary Engine: 2 knots surfaced / 3.5 knots submerged

Maximum Depth: 260 Meters Recomeded, 350 Crush Depth


This represents the first major redesign of Novikov's submarine fleet. Designed over the course of five years, this submarine is a signifigant improvement over the smaller "Swordfish" designs.

Increased range, armament, provisions, detection range, and stealth make this boat fundamentally superior to it's older partners. Incorperating the traditional six-tube design, and making the transition to a complete teardrop-style frame, this boat was actually designed to feel far less "foreign" to captains than the "Swordfish" design did.

The "Sabre" has a signifigant advantage in range over most other Diesel-Electrics, giving it the option of striking deeper out to sea and making it an efficent tool for use against hostile merchants as well as marauding raders. An interesting feature is that, because the secondary engine and the primary engines' batteries are seperate, the ship can theoretically run on batteries for an astounding five days, making this boats possible range far greater, though it's speed performance suffers a coresponding drop.

The armament is again the standard 533mm Torpedo, giving it compatability with almost every navy, though these tubes are specially designed to have the dual function of firing conventional torpedoes and the YJ-8 anti-shipping cruse missile. This gives it a deadly touch, particularly when combined with this subs decreased detectability and increased sonar range and clarity.

Price: 285.000.000 USD (275.000.000 USD production cost)
Production Rights: 3.000.000.000 USD

OOC: My compliments for a well designed series of submarines, which will certainly fare well as a series of small, conventionally-powered submarines, especially in littoral regions in various operations, including shore-based ASW against nuclear submarines (anyone tries active sonar as their primary attack method would already have a 21" down their throat anyways especially if there's also things like MPAs and submarine chasers), interdiction of enemy battle groups and Sea Lanes of Communications, and perhaps mining as well. /OOC

The Omzian Navy, looking for a new conventional submarine design aiming for low cost and ease of maintenance, along with basic combat capabilities in coastal regions, sends their compliments to the talented designers at Novikov for these excellent series of conventional submarines. As there is a demand for between 48 to 96 units of these submarines within both the Omzian Navy and the Omzian Naval Militia, we are more than just being enthusiastic about the SS-02E Sabre model. Therefore, we would like to offer a total of $12 billion for the production license of the mentioned model, since we are aware that the basic production license option, amounting to a total of $3 billion, does not permit any modification of the design. Because of this, it is wished by the Omzian Navy that with the $12 billion offer, permissions would be granted for the Omzian Navy to replace the existing sonar arrays with a more capable spherical array (with possible rearrangments of various other equipment to make space for such array), in addition to capabilities allowing the submarine to fire the UGM-84 Harpoon series of anti-ship missiles.

Omzian Navy

My government would be happy to provide you with such rights. However, I am instructed to remind the people of Omz222 of the second portion of our Production Rights contract. If we grant you modification and production rights, we do so only under the understanding that the Sabre, and any subsiquent modification or redesign of the SAbre, will not be sold to foreign governments without the expressed consent of the government of Novikov. We also request as an addition to this contract that Novikov recive 1% of any profits made from such sales.

My thanks.
W. Pripevski
Department of Naval Design.

OOC: Just to check, you are aware that the MGK-400 Shark Gill LF active/passive, and Sintra DUUX 5 low-frequency passive are the premier sonar systems used on Soviet and Chinese Diesel-Electrics. I don't see the need for a refit, but if you insist.

OOC: Sorry, I've been having internet problems.

First, Freudotopia. In regards to an overall campaign against Novikov (or by Novikov), I would surely loose. I'm halting population growth at fourteen million because I want to remain a regional power and nothing else, for christ sakes. What I was saying was that, at sea in a 1-on-1 exercise, this design would have AT LEAST equal odds of sucess as an Ohio Class sub. If you'd like to test that, I'm sure we can arrange a test. OOC: If Freudotopia tried to attack you, I'd go after him and to use his logic, eat him without opening my mouth.

Freudotopia, your insults have no place in a thread like this. Either provide constructive feedback or stay out of this or similar threads.

OOC: No need to go off the handle. I really would like to try out a mock-engagement betwwen my Sabre and anyhting he can come up with (that isn't indestructable.)

That is fine. We would pay $720million, the cost off four subs, upon every delivery, plus an extra shipping charge.

Colonel Sanders
Defense Balls
Planet Spaceball IV

OOC: i've got to agree with Omz222 on this, i prefer Western Sonar systems etc which is why i will be hoping to do the same.

IC:

To: The Concerned Department, Novikov.
From: Vast Principles Naval Imports department.

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Vast Principles would like to purchase Production rights for a modified version of your SS-02E Sabre class Conventional Submarine. The total ammount asked for in the price for Production rights shall be payed in full upon your expressed consent and agreement to our offer.

We would further like to ask for a new section to the contract that would allow us to sell any modified Submarines to TRUSTED nations within our region at any price we see fit, with 5% of the money made being sent to Novikov. We are also willing to send a model of any modified versions of this submarine, although with some equipment missing in the case of new secret designs.

The reason for this is so that we may send submarines in privacy to nations within our region who may need them for use by their nations, primarily for defence.

if you are willing to negociate upon this request we would be wiling to listen to your offer/s.

hum..nice..i'd use it as an missle platform...wait..its too small!!!

heres something i designed for earth v

SeaBastard 1 series


Builder: Revertromance Naval Shipyards

Propulsion system: one m-1 (revertromance designed) nuclear reactor

Propellers: one

Length: 455 feet (138.1 meters) (thank you expensive caculator for metric conversions )

Beam: 40 feet (12.2 meters)

Draft: 35 feet (10.67 meters)

Displacement: Surfaced: approx. 10,460 tons Submerged: approx. 12,158 tons

Speed: Surfaced: approx. 23 knots Submerged: approx. 37 knots

Armament: Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles from VLS-tubes, ten 660 mm torpedo Tubes for Mk-48 torpedoes, ability to lay mines

Crew: 12 Officers, 131 Enlisted

Current build cost: 3.5 B


than this supersub i bought of Maiuowee (sorry if i still spelt your name worng)

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/1112/mauisub3.jpg

Class: Bud II

Specifications
Displacement: 10,650 tons (submerged)
Length: 422 feet
Beam: 55 feet
Draft: 44 feet
Speed: >27 knots
Maximum Depth: 1,300 feet (tested, theoretical, 2,150)
Builder: W.M.D., Inc.
Power Plant: Two Tandem S8W Closed System Reactors w/ secondary General Electric Dynamo IV Electric motor.
Hull: HY-142 "Samuri Folded" Steel
Crew: 15 Officers & 145 Enlisted
Armament: 12 tube, 2 deck torpedo room:
8x720mm Torpedo Tubes
4x660mm Torpedo Tubes
75 Tomahawk Cruise missiles; or
75 Harpoon II Class anti-ship missiles; or
65 Mark 51 ADCAP torpedoes; or
135 MK 69 SLMM's (submarine launched mobile mines); or
Any reasonable combination of the above;
Plus:
2 ICBM vertical Missile Launchers and
2 retractable, "deck mounted," laser sighted, 65mm anti-aircraft guns (stern and bow).

Defensive Systems
WLY-4 torpedo decoy system
GTE WLQ-5(W)3 electronic countermeasures (ECM) system
W.M.D. Stealth "Sub Jet" silent propulsion (patent pending)
Electric Charged Hull system

Systems
Lockheed Martin BSY-5 Combat Data system;
Raytheon Mk3 Fire Control System;
BPS 19 Navigational Radar;
BQQ 7D Midships, Bow and Stern mounted active/passive wide flank sonar arrays

Price $1.85 billion, U.S.D.

General Information: The "Sub Jet" (patent pending) silent propulsion system developed by W.M.D., Inc. is a quantum leap forward in silent propulsion for submarines. To describe it in general terms:
traditional submarines are propelled by a propeller/screw that is sits externally from the hull of the submarine itself and spins around a shaft which is connected to a turbine which spins due to steam generated by the closed water system of the nuclear engine. However, the "sub jet" removes this external mechanism that creates sound in the water that other subs and sophisticated sonar systems can track. It does this by using a turbine, similar to a jet's turbine, which is mounted internally in a sound proofed central section of the submarine's interior. Water is forced through the tubine (just like air is forced through a jet engine's turbine) into an enclosed chamber where it is placed under pressure (again, just like air in a jet engine). There, it is (for all practical purposes) instantly superheated by the nuclear engine (like the air in a jet engine is heated by the explosion of the gasoline it mixes with which is sparked in the combustion chamber of a jet). The pressure is relieved by a rear opening aft of the pressure chamber, but still inside the submarine which the water "squirts" out of (just like the explosive gases "squirt" out the rear of a jet engine) to provide forward thrust. Instead of a screw with 4, 6 or 8 blades spinning in the water that surrounds the sub. and pushing the the sub. forward and creating noise sonar can track, you have a turbine with 110 "blades" sitting inside the submarine which is pushed forward by the force created when heated water under pressure is released through the aft "blow hole" (as W.M.D. engineers have come to describe the water's ejection point from the turbine's compartment). Note, the water is NOT heating to boiling as the release of steam would create turbulence that was as easily tracked as convential subs. A second opening at the aft of the submarine also acts to provide additional thrust as water is ejected from it. Secondly, since the primary source propulsion actually occurs INSIDE the submarine, by the time the water is ejected from the aft "blowhole," turbulence from the turbine has been reduced to almost nill. At maximum attack speed the sub is as easily tracked as any other sub. However, at normal cruising speed of 12-14 knots and a depth of 300 feet, the sub is all but completely undectable./2

OOC: RevertRomance, what was the point of that?

Anyway, i noticed with the BUD II it has some 65mm AA guns LASER SIGHTED. I would suggest that is stupid because a laser sight needs to hit the object to work, so an aircrfat moving at Mach2 would be VERY hard to find and follow, RADAR would be better suited for it, i personnaly would just use SAMS though.

ohh, and isnt that dive depth like complete Godmode?

Let me think......NO

Current sub tech can take an nuclear sub to near 2500. And for the AA guns i didnt design it what they are actually used for is anyones guess. Fire them at ships...a gun is a gun afterall. :rolleyes:

OOC: just checked, FAS says this of the Ohio SSBN: " Operating Depth: Official: "greater than 800 feet"
Actual: greater than 1,000 feet "

i reckon that the diving depth of the second sub could be quite deep though seeing as it is quite large and so would incorporate many new technologies, however, its increased size would mean MASSIVE increased pressure upon it.

Could you tell me what sub can make 2500feet please? It actualy sounds quite interesting(never was properly into subs)

It was "therorical" it only went to 1300 and subs now go to 1500. Considering Earth V uses the 2000-2020 timeline i might be useing technologies that you chose not to. In 2020 an sub going to 2500 is nothing. Besides earth v has underwater supercavitation carreri craft with fighters and everything...its insane.

Allow me to clarify our previous communication, we wish to sell on to you
NPM-N SS-01E-2 Swordfish II Class diesel electric submarines at a re-adjusted production cost of $176.5 million, on the agreement that with three months of notice we would be able to begin unlimited production of this class. The likelihood of such a seizure occurring are remote however this is an insurance policy to provide the ISDF with an easily producible boat should one be required en mass.

Such an arrangement would provide you with an increased production capacity, at a relatively minor cost increase whilst giving you greater export shipping reach. Our original production capacity estimate has now been expanded to forty boats a year.

As this production line would be for your primary benefit we feel that a greatly reduced production rights license would be more appropriate, in the region of $850 million upon suitable adjustments were made construction would begin swiftly.

ISDF Spokesperson

>BEGIN TRANSMISSION<

To: Novikov Ministry of Defense
Director of the Navy Mikhal Gregori
PO Box G-003N
Poldi'sk, Novikov


The Inability to log in is interested in aquiring the production rights to the NPM-N SS-02E "Sabre" Deisel Electric Submarine. This would be a total of 3 billion USD. We assure the ministry that we will uphold the legal obligation of the lisense.

>END TRANSMISSION<

Novikov's design bureau would be happy to provide The Inability To Log with the afformentioned production rights. On confirmetion of a funds transfer inthe ammount of 3.000.000.000 USD, we will send our submaines designs over secure channels.

Pripevski.


To: the government of Tom Joad.

Allow me to also clarify our overnment's position regarding the sale of our submariness. Novikov People's Military - Naval banch is more than happy to provide te mentioned production rights, as well as design rights under the terms we set forth. However, we desire to remain completely self-reliant and therefordo not wish to enter into an agreement which requires our purchase of the swordfish II design from foreign competitiors.

If such a position is still acceptable to your people, a simple transfer of funds is all that is necessary and we will send the NPM-N SS-01e-2 designs. We simply wish to remove ourselvs from all forms of foreign reliance.

Pripevski.


To: the government of Vast Principles.

With minor changes, I am confident that a deal can be struck acceptable to both parties. We request the following amendments be made:

First, any nation recieving the Sabre must obtain permission from the government of Novikov.

Second, any modifications made to the Sabre design be passed through he NPM-N design Bureau, and those alterations be made available for production within Novikov.

The price for the mentioned production and design rights be brought to 1.000.000.000 USD, with assurance that 5% of any additional profits made from the sael of the Sabre or any consquent desins be returned to the United Socialist States of Novikov.

should these ammendments be acceptable, a simple confirmation will suffice. Otherwise, we would like o continue negotiations over these rights.

Pripevski.

>BEGIN TRANSMISSION<

To: Novikov Ministry of Defense

The Inability to log in is glad our business has been accepted. Funds have been wired to Novikov. Thank you.

>END TRANSMISSION<

Confirmed. Plans Sent.

That is fine. We would pay $720million, the cost off four subs, upon every delivery, plus an extra shipping charge.

Colonel Sanders
Defense Balls
Planet Spaceball IV

Talzeckia would like to purchase 10 of these submarines for use in our Navy as we attempt to win our independence from Sarzonia. We would prefer to receive them as soon as possible.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Commodore Brian Longley
Commander in Chief
Talzecki Navy

OOC: SPECIFY WHICH DESIGN YOU WANT TO BUY. IF YOU DON'T, I WILL IGNORE YOUR ORDER.

IC:

My government has reviewed your request and has found that we are unable to process your request at this time. W regret to inform the people of Talzeckia that they will have to procure weapons from a diffrent source.

Apologies,
Pripevski.

[OOC: I didn't realize there was more than one design. I was asking for the first one.

Sarzonia the country may not want Talzeckia to get the subs, but the player behind both wouldn't mind. I sometimes use puppets to buy ships from newer storefronts as a way to help them along. That's what I was doing there.]