NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Everyone is welcome to join the audience, but only post in “question time.” Keep questions short, and don’t kill panel members or members of the audience. Otherwise read on and enjoy. And don’t all telegram me your ideas for NSTV or post them here.

Credits:
ORIGINAL IDEA
Farmina
Alexias
PANEL
AMF
DA
Roach Busters
TIOR
Farmina
Alexias
P3X1299
Triancia
The Real ALM
FAILED APPLICANTS
Dumpsterdam
IDF
Generic Empire
Hamptonshire
Doomingsland
Callisdrun
Dahenjo-Maro
Schultaria Prime
Nieder Ostland
Resi Corp
Xeraph
Truitt
Crimson Blades
Iuthia
Ottoman Khaif
Nutropinia
Brydog
Rebeled Elves
Bloodstone
Fedral Union

IC:

Brought to you by Nationstates TV, the brand new show: The Panel. And here is tonight’s host: Professor Michael Walter.

Fades in to focus on the Professor.
“Hello to all you at home for our very first episode of the Panel, and with me tonight I have on my left: Damien Dreadfire, Doctor William Jerest, Karl von Elsing and General Alexander Roska.”

As each of the names were said, a light above their head turned on to illuminate them.

“And in my right: the much renowned Satanist, um…Calvinist Paul Stahlecker, CEO-Premier John Carter, Sheik Latif and last but not least, the one and only Generalissimo J.L.”

Again each was illuminated in turn.

“Now our first topic for tonight is religion, which one is right or are the all wrong.”

“I myself am a Grey Catholic but lets throw it wide open to our excellent panel.”

Carter decided that he would reply to the question.

"I don't subcribe to the tenets of any religion, well, except of course where money is concerned. As far as I'm concerned, religion is hogwash or a good racket. I've seen televangelists at charity events with their expensive cars. That tends to turn me off of religion or get in on the racket."

"I can't comprehend how you can't believe in God," said the Professor, "Society's perfection is a testament to God's existence in fact. And if a few capitalists exploit the Bible for profit, then so be it. It just means they are doomed to an eternity of hell."

OOC: To clarify: Panel posts must be reasonably short: but they can be rude, offensive and plain obnoxious. If the audience chants "Jerry, Jerry" thats fine.

"Jerry, Jerry"

Paul sighed as the idiot from whatever loser nation he crawled out from, criticized religion. He then stood up and turned to the man, shouting, "You're headed for hell! You hear me! Hell! You've been blinded to the truth, Romans 11:7, you can't see the truth because God won't let you... You perverted swine, you're headed for hell!"

Dr. Jerest sighs. and rubs the bridge of his nose, moving his glasses up slightly as he does so. He comes back with only a slightly forced smile.

"First of all, I want to thank you, Professor Walter, for having me on. Both I and the government of Triancia appreciate these opportunites for our stands on important issues like this to be heard.

He turns his head to observe the three men that have just spoken, before addressing the panel as a whole. "Now, personally, I am a Protestant. I was rasied as such, and it is those system of beliefs that I subscribe to. However, I think the topic itself overlays another important issue: Once a ruler or government declares a Religion as 'the right one', you get folks like Paul Stahlecker here, who just can't seem to open their minds to new ideas. And I don't need to tell the distinguished members of the panel the effect it can have on basic civil rights."

Dreadfire scoffed at the 'dignitary' from Decisive Action. Preach the truths of your 'God' all you'd like, miscreant. If your God is so all loving then why do all His followers preach hellfire and damnation to those who do not conform. The Gods of my people are generous and all loving, and their message is a message of hope and eternal life. The message of your God is that of eternal torment if you do not fall to your knees and give the church all your money.

Some God that is.

Dreadfire scoffed at the 'dignitary' from Decisive Action. Preach the truths of your 'God' all you'd like, miscreant. If your God is so all loving then why do all His followers preach hellfire and damnation to those who do not conform. The Gods of my people are generous and all loving, and their message is a message of hope and eternal life. The message of your God is that of eternal torment if you do not fall to your knees and give the church all your money.

Some God that is.


Paul shook his head, standing up to preach, "Our God is a God of anger and wrath, He hates sinners and those He hates are those He predestinated to be sinners. The message of Christ is one of woe, woe to sinners... Malachi 1:2-3, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated", God has predestinated who He loves and who He hates, he does not love people, not all people at least. And my church, we never pass a collection plate, and we never accept donations, the preacher lives with a member of the congregration, the church is simple, there are no decorations, paintings, no fancy painted glass. It is a church fit to serve Christ and to teach the five points. It is not some Papist Church that is full of icons to the pope and their fertility goddesses."

"I can't comprehend how you can't believe in God," said the Professor, "Society's perfection is a testament to God's existence in fact. And if a few capitalists exploit the Bible for profit, then so be it. It just means they are doomed to an eternity of hell."

"God is dead. If you want to believe in some arcane bunch of hokey nonsense and spout off about hell, demons, and things like that thanks, but no thanks. I've got fire insurance already."



Paul sighed as the idiot from whatever loser nation he crawled out from, criticized religion. He then stood up and turned to the man, shouting, "You're headed for hell! You hear me! Hell! You've been blinded to the truth, Romans 11:7, you can't see the truth because God won't let you... You perverted swine, you're headed for hell!"

Carter almost started laughing at the other nut spouting off about hell and coughed to cover up a chuckle."You, sir are in need of some psychological help. I can recommend a number of good mental hospitals but they may be a little pricey."

"God is dead. If you want to believe in some arcane bunch of hokey nonsense and spout off about hell, demons, and things like that thanks, but no thanks. I've got fire insurance already."





Carter almost started laughing at the other nut spouting off about hell and coughed to cover up a chuckle."You, sir are in need of some psychological help. I can recommend a number of good mental hospitals but they may be a little pricey."



Paul scoffed, the man was obviously an idiot who didn't know what the name Stahlecker meant. He stood up and bowed his head a bit before speaking, "Listen here, idiot... The Stahlecker family is one of the richest in the world, and I am one of the richest in the entire Mississippian Federation... Money matters not to me, and anyway, I am in top mental condition. Just because you're a godless loser, doesn't make me abnormal... You're just that, a godless loser, so take your atheism and peddle it somewhere else."

Karl, hearing this, stood up and said, "Mr. Stahlecker, I notice you quote Malachi 1:2-3, to justify the existence of an 'elect,' as it were. Perhaps you should bid well to remember Isaiah 56:7, which goes on to say: '..mine house shall be a house of prayer for all people.'"

He then continued: "Your limiting ideology only induces men to embrace atheism and mobocratic ideas, like Communism. Why? It is not meant to inspire men, it does not give them salvation, so why should they believe in such a being? Why should they follow men that follow such a being? As a result, they congregate to Marx instead, when they should be rightly serving their God and Country, under the wise guidance of those who would benefit them most: their lords."

Paul scoffed, the man was obviously an idiot who didn't know what the name Stahlecker meant. He stood up and bowed his head a bit before speaking, "Listen here, idiot... The Stahlecker family is one of the richest in the world, and I am one of the richest in the entire Mississippian Federation... Money matters not to me, and anyway, I am in top mental condition. Just because you're a godless loser, doesn't make me abnormal... You're just that, a godless loser, so take your atheism and peddle it somewhere else."

"I've never thought of peddling atheism. Thanks for the idea. I'll consider it. Sir, I never said that you were abnormal, just that you need some psychological help. And if money doesn't matter to you then why are you bragging about being extremely rich? Doesn't your Bible say something about the rich men not being able to enter paradise or something like that?"

"I've never thought of peddling atheism. Thanks for the idea. I'll consider it. Sir, I never said that you were abnormal, just that you need some psychological help. And if money doesn't matter to you then why are you bragging about being extremely rich? Doesn't your Bible say something about the rich men not being able to enter paradise or something like that?"



Paul wanted to just throw his bible at the bible ignorant fool, instead he calmly shook his head and replied, "No, it says it is difficult for the rich to enter into heaven, not impossible... Most rich men make their money in the jewish fashion, screwing over others... I made my money through several ways, first, a lot of it was just given to me by my father, secondly, I worked my butt off, day and night, for over a decade, managing several family owned companies... See, I work for my money..."

Paul wanted to just throw his bible at the bible ignorant fool, instead he calmly shook his head and replied, "No, it says it is difficult for the rich to enter into heaven, not impossible... Most rich men make their money in the jewish fashion, screwing over others... I made my money through several ways, first, a lot of it was just given to me by my father, secondly, I worked my butt off, day and night, for over a decade, managing several family owned companies... See, I work for my money..."

Karl said, "Same here, if there is one thing I am inclined to agree with my extreme Calvinist friend here, is that there are those who can be called self-made men. I am one of those, I moved up from being a simple underpaid bureaucrat, to becoming an important preserver of law and order in my home town of Wurttemburg all throughout the 1980's and the 1990's, to the head of one of the most influential organizations in the world. I did this by my own sweat, blood and tears, and as I do believe in a God, His providence."

Generalissimo J.L. "One thing I'd like to add to this discussion on religion is that I am disgusted- absolutely, indubidably, utterly disgusted- when I hear leftist, Christless morons affiliate our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, with Marxist-Leninist gangsterism and insinuate that His ideology follows theirs. Communism is the religion of Satan! Christianity is the antidote to communism!"

Generalissimo J.L. "One thing I'd like to add to this discussion on religion is that I am disgusted- absolutely, indubidably, utterly disgusted- when I hear leftist, Christless morons affiliate our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, with Marxist-Leninist gangsterism and insinuate that His ideology follows theirs. Communism is the religion of Satan! Christianity is the antidote to communism!"

Upon hearing this, Karl simply said, "Bravo, I could not have said it any better! There is no substitute for God. This is why I reject the idea of an elect, as I have said before, for it chokes off religion to the masses, leaving them to the ravages of such nasty thoughts. I use an analogy that C.S. Lewis posed: God and man are like gasoline and a car: just as a car cannot run without gasoline, man cannot be without God."

Paul then stood back up, determined to make one last point before the next guy could get a word in. He smiled before saying, "Look, I really don't care what religion somebody is, since I know I'm in the Elect and because I accept the five points, I know I'm going to heaven, okay? So if somebody wants to believe another religion, even though they're wrong, let them, you know? I mean it's their immortal soul... But anyway, I'd contend they deny the five points because God hates them and they aren't in the Elect. After all, Elect will, at one time or another in their lifetime, see the light and accept the Five points, and thus, be saved."

Paul then stood back up, determined to make one last point before the next guy could get a word in. He smiled before saying, "Look, I really don't care what religion somebody is, since I know I'm in the Elect and because I accept the five points, I know I'm going to heaven, okay? So if somebody wants to believe another religion, even though they're wrong, let them, you know? I mean it's their immortal soul... But anyway, I'd contend they deny the five points because God hates them and they aren't in the Elect. After all, Elect will, at one time or another in their lifetime, see the light and accept the Five points, and thus, be saved."

Karl simply laughed, and said, "Oh, you sinner, you may have studied your Bible, but methinks you did not do it correctly. Did Jesus not say in Matthew 8:11: 'many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Issac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven?' Jesus makes no mention of an elect here, he does not say only a few should sit at the table with Abraham, Issac and Jacob! Did also not tell Peter to be a fisher of men? He did not say, "Peter, get me a select few who are called by God," no, he wanted to get everybody."

Karl then continued, looking into Paul's eye's with a most piercing gaze. "He mentions many, good sir. That is what I am about......true law and order can only be embraced when the people, the many, not some select club of good-doers, are put under the name of God by their betters."

A member of the audience stood up and shouted "God is dead!" at the delegate from Mississipii. He was lucky. Had he stood any closer he would have spat at him.

Karl simply laughed, and said, "Oh, you sinner, you may have studied your Bible, but methinks you did not do it correctly. Did Jesus not say in Matthew 8:11: 'many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Issac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven?' Jesus makes no mention of an elect here, he does not say only a few should sit at the table with Abraham, Issac and Jacob! Did also not tell Peter to be a fisher of men? He did not say, "Peter, get me a select few who are called by God," no, he wanted to get everybody."

Karl then continued, looking into Paul's eye's with a most piercing gaze. "He mentions many, good sir. That is what I am about......true law and order can only be embraced when the people, the many, not some select club of good-doers, are put under the name of God by their betters."



Paul smiled and played his trump card, saying the verse, "Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Before he added, "Hmmm, explain that away, eh?"

Paul then stood back up, determined to make one last point before the next guy could get a word in. He smiled before saying, "Look, I really don't care what religion somebody is, since I know I'm in the Elect and because I accept the five points, I know I'm going to heaven, okay? So if somebody wants to believe another religion, even though they're wrong, let them, you know? I mean it's their immortal soul... But anyway, I'd contend they deny the five points because God hates them and they aren't in the Elect. After all, Elect will, at one time or another in their lifetime, see the light and accept the Five points, and thus, be saved."

"Does anyone have any empirical evidence that some type of deity, higher power, energy field, or whatever exists? I don't care if someone wants to worship the Andromeda galaxy, in fact, I can understand that because it actually exists. Prove to me that your so called god exists. If all you have is convictions, then you don't have truth. Convictions are far more dangerous to the truth than lies."

Paul smiled and played his trump card, saying the verse, "Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Before he added, "Hmmm, explain that way, eh?"

Karl simply laughed, saying, "A wily one, ye be. I like your debating style, you always have something witty, something smart-alecky to say. Bear in mind I met such persons in my Stasi days, I am used to your ilk."

He then got serious and said: "Perhaps you refer to those to be saved by God at the Apocalypse? In that case, one can argue that you are not of the elect, since the end times have not come and God has not raptured you, to spare you from the suffering to come."

Alexander cleared his throat. "There is a God. And I think God has a sense of humor. Think about it. He made the kangaroo, the platapus, gay people, Hitler, communism, hell the way we're going there is a God. But I think the real problem is that the world is spiritually dead. And to address the Mississippian's claim that God only chose a select a few. Wrong. If God only chose a select few, we'd all be going to hell. What would be the point of living? God put us here to have fun, the Christian way. But you Mississippians just don't know that, don't you."

He winked. "Too bad I never got a chance to lead an invasion."

Alexander cleared his throat. "There is a God. And I think God has a sense of humor. Think about it. He made the kangaroo, the platapus, gay people, Hitler, communism, hell the way we're going there is a God. But I think the real problem is that the world is spiritually dead. And to address the Mississippian's claim that God only chose a select a few. Wrong. If God only chose a select few, we'd all be going to hell. What would be the point of living? God put us here to have fun, the Christian way. But you Mississippians just don't know that, don't you."

He winked. "Too bad I never got a chance to lead an invasion."

Karl nodded and said to Paul, "My Rosian friend here has a point. What would be the point of living if all of the rest of society were going to Hell? Would God not just send us there the moment we are born, and spare Himself the expense of managing a doomed people? It is said that it is wise to leave a sinking ship behind, if the bulk of humanity was that ship, He would have gladly abandoned us. As we are here, and he blesses those who work and are pious, surely there is no such concept of an elect. "

Alexander cleared his throat. "There is a God. And I think God has a sense of humor. Think about it. He made the kangaroo, the platapus, gay people, Hitler, communism, hell the way we're going there is a God. But I think the real problem is that the world is spiritually dead. And to address the Mississippian's claim that God only chose a select a few. Wrong. If God only chose a select few, we'd all be going to hell. What would be the point of living? God put us here to have fun, the Christian way. But you Mississippians just don't know that, don't you."

He winked. "Too bad I never got a chance to lead an invasion."


Paul grinned and then said, "God made all the world and made man, because it suited him. He has predestinated all since before man walked the Earth. Why, because he is a Sovereign God and it suited him to do so... For instance... 'Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.' Thus we can clearly see that we are justified by faith alone, and that the elect have been chosen via unconditional election and predestination."

Paul grinned and then said, "God made all the world and made man, because it suited him. He has predestinated all since before man walked the Earth. Why, because he is a Sovereign God and it suited him to do so... For instance... 'Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.' Thus we can clearly see that we are justified by faith alone, and that the elect have been chosen via unconditional election and predestination."

Alexander chuckled. "You sure love using the Book of Romans. Too bad you're not really one." Alexander cleared his throat. "But on to more serious matters. The elect are the Christians. Also, when he said that he did predestinate, he meant that God knows every person. But of course I don't claim to study the Bible as you do. I just go Mass, do God's work, and sleep. And maybe once in awhile go on date or two..."

He shook his head. "Again, I'm just a simple Roman Catholic trying to do good."

Alexander chuckled. "You sure love using the Book of Romans. Too bad you're not really one." Alexander cleared his throat. "But on to more serious matters. The elect are the Christians. Also, when he said that he did predestinate, he meant that God knows every person. But of course I don't claim to study the Bible as you do. I just go Mass, do God's work, and sleep. And maybe once in awhile go on date or two..."

He shook his head. "Again, I'm just a simple Roman Catholic trying to do good."


Paul started to turn red with rage, he just wanted to shoot the idiot, but he couldn't do it, it must not have been predestinated to happen. He smiled and regained his composure as he rose, starting to speak, "You do know that as a Catholic, you really ought not to be going out on dates... Right? Or does the church you're in suddenly support same-sex marriage as well... Tell me though, why do you claim to do God's work, the bible says we are justified, well that is saved, by faith alone, and our faith comes from Election, we are not saved by good work, nor can we be."

Paul started to turn red with rage, he just wanted to shoot the idiot, but he couldn't do it, it must not have been predestinated to happen. He smiled and regained his composure as he rose, starting to speak, "You do know that as a Catholic, you really ought not to be going out on dates... Right? Or does the church you're in suddenly support same-sex marriage as well... Tell me though, why do you claim to do God's work, the bible says we are justified, well that is saved, by faith alone, and our faith comes from Election, we are not saved by good work, nor can we be."

Alexander smiled. "God says no premarital sex. That's why Nikolai is going to hell, and I'm not. I take the girl to a nice dinner and leave her at the house, nothing wrong with that. And no, the Church doesn't support same-sex marriage, but we promote nudism during Mass." Silence. "But I don't want to get into that. And by what you say, that means if I am not elected I can masturbate in this room, rape a woman, have sex with a man and proclaim that I am fabulous. Technically speaking."

Another audience member which looked suspiciously like Foreign Minister Piruz Savhadkouhi dressed in a black suit with dark Ray-Ban sunglasses stood up and said, "Praise to Ahura Mazda, the one true God"

Paul started to turn red with rage, he just wanted to shoot the idiot, but he couldn't do it, it must not have been predestinated to happen. He smiled and regained his composure as he rose, starting to speak, "You do know that as a Catholic, you really ought not to be going out on dates... Right? Or does the church you're in suddenly support same-sex marriage as well... Tell me though, why do you claim to do God's work, the bible says we are justified, well that is saved, by faith alone, and our faith comes from Election, we are not saved by good work, nor can we be."

Karl then said to Paul: "Is it not possible for one to believe in God without Election? I know of many that are as such. You say that faith comes from Election only, but if this is true, then how much faith does one have once he is in this state? He better have a lot, this condition of irresistible grace sounds like a license to indulge thyself and get away with it, guilt-free, snug and assured that no matter what they do, they will be saved. Trust me, Herr Sthalecker, I have met many such men, I have done my homework, what of the people of Salem, they, if anything, illustrate that a perfect Elected society can have its flaws."

Dr. Jerest listen's for a good while, before speaking up at a lull in the vicious verbal fighting.

"First, one has to wonder if C.S. Lewis considered alternative fuels. A smile, and a slight chuckle issue forth, before being replaced by a much more serious expression

"Second, the discourse we've heard just goes to furthur underscore my point. All this vehment talk about the evils of communism, the importance of following holy scripture as some sort of law, taking a man's religious beliefs and mating them to his character, all of it shows why relgion should be left to each indivudal to find for themselves. The government should not, and cannot be estiblished on the basis of theocracy, else we shall see hard won freedoms and rights disapper is the quest for so-called 'morality'.

Dr. Jerest listen's for a good while, before speaking up at a lull in the vicious verbal fighting.

"First, one has to wonder if C.S. Lewis considered alternative fuels. A smile, and a slight chuckle issue forth, before being replaced by a much more serious expression

"Second, the discourse we've heard just goes to furthur underscore my point. All this vehment talk about the evils of communism, the importance of following holy scripture as some sort of law, taking a man's religious beliefs and mating them to his character, all of it shows why relgion should be left to each indivudal to find for themselves. The government should not, and cannot be estiblished on the basis of theocracy, else we shall see hard won freedoms and rights disapper is the quest for so-called 'morality'.

Alexander rolled his eyes. "Tell that to him." He pointed at Paul. "The Rosian Government doesn't interfere with religion."

A suspicious-looking man in a black suit sat in the dark back corner of the audience, taking notes on a PDA, occasional photos with a mobile phone, and once in a while releasing a chuckle as the religious nutcases duked it out.

Dr. Jerest listen's for a good while, before speaking up at a lull in the vicious verbal fighting.

"First, one has to wonder if C.S. Lewis considered alternative fuels. A smile, and a slight chuckle issue forth, before being replaced by a much more serious expression

"Second, the discourse we've heard just goes to furthur underscore my point. All this vehment talk about the evils of communism, the importance of following holy scripture as some sort of law, taking a man's religious beliefs and mating them to his character, all of it shows why relgion should be left to each indivudal to find for themselves. The government should not, and cannot be estiblished on the basis of theocracy, else we shall see hard won freedoms and rights disapper is the quest for so-called 'morality'.

Karl was astonsihed at this, and said, " Sir, I tell you, regardless of the fuel, the analogy works regardless of whatever fuel you use, it is impossible to seperate man from God. As for such 'rights,' let me tell you that those rights are but the dreams of a mob of scribbling Frenchmen, hypocrites almighty, who pledged their love for man but committed many gross abuses of power. Let me tell you that the only way to govern is to use the guiding, enlightened hand of a group of intellgent persons, mandated by God to rule the people, to save them from themselves. I look to Somalia, Shay's Rebellion in Massachusetts, Kosovo, all examples of what happens when the mob is not ugided by a firm, steady, fatherly hand."

“God is Earth’s one true ruler and thus must rule our nations, through the Grey Catholic Church as well,” said the Professor, “With the Church in power as it is in Farmina, and the power of the government is then used for its one true purpose, to protect the people from themselves. Now the Calvinist claims that we are either meant to find the five principles or not. I would ask why he is trying to enforce Calvinism if this is the case.”

“And for evidence of God’s existence,” added the Professor, rotating slightly in his swivel chair, “How many million planets, how many animals, how many flowers so perfectly formed? All these point to God.”

"When are we going to talk about politics and stuff?" J.L. asked.

"We will discuss politics later," said the Professor, "Or this may very well flow into politics, but we can hammer the Calvinist and the atheist a little longer yet."

Again the man in the audience stood up and screamed, "Praise Ahura Mazda".

"I don't care you like driving Mazdas," the Professor yelled at the man in the audience.
He looked across the Panel to notice that Paul was looking extremely unwell.
The Professor clicked his fingers and two paramedics raced the Calvinist away, with a minimum of fuss.

"We will discuss politics later," said the Professor, "Or this may very well flow into politics, but we can hammer the Calvinist and the atheist a little longer yet."

"Very well, then. Wake me up when it's time." J.L. collapsed, and within seconds, he was snoozing.

"I don't care you like driving Mazdas," the Professor yelled at the man in the audience.
He looked across the Panel to notice that Paul was looking extremely unwell.
The Professor clicked his fingers and two paramedics raced the Calvinist away, with a minimum of fuss.

The audience member stood up again, "Ahura Mazda isn't a car, he is the one true God, don't you know about Zoroastrianism?"

"Zoroastrianism, isn't that some flash car technology?," asked the Professor, "Why don't you join the panel and tell us all about how your car is your God?"

Again the man in the audience stood up and screamed, "Praise Ahura Mazda".

An elderly gentleman, irritated at the crazed man's rantings, unscrewed his walking cane to reveal a sharp blade. Leaping at the Parthian from the row behind, the aged grandfather clove him in two, then sat back down.

OOC: I couldn't resist. Inspired by this news story:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/277116p-237327c.html

An elderly gentleman, irritated at the crazed man's rantings, unscrewed his walking cane to reveal a sharp blade. Leaping at the Parthian from the row behind, the aged grandfather clove him in two, then sat back down.

OOC: I couldn't resist. Inspired by this news story:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/277116p-237327c.html


OOC: Rather goddmodish, he'd pull out his .45 and blow the crap out of your guy.

OOC: Rather goddmodish, he'd pull out his .45 and blow the crap out of your guy.

OOC: Unless your guy has eyes in the back of his head, that's kinda impossible, seeing as how he was leaping from the row BEHIND him.

OOC: STOP FIGHTING OOC and NO KILLING PEOPLE.

A simply clad African man towards the back adjusted his large glasses in curiousity. It was obvious that the panel was rather inept at making progress, and they struggle upon the useless topic of religion that had little to do with what was at hand. Bible quotations and ranting, it was somewhat sickening, there was no true argument. He also noted the extreme slant among all of the panelists, not only in religion, but other issues. He sat back a bit, taking it in. It was at least somewhat amusing. And it would come in useful.

OOC: Eh.....this isn't really what I signed up for.....bickering and murder attempts...

Ooc- Please don't RP my character (Paul) being ill... Thanks... Also, I second what AMF said, Paul didn't come here expecting a fight (believe it or not)... He is wanting to preach and debate.

Ooc- Please don't RP my character (Paul) being ill... Thanks... Also, I second what AMF said, Paul didn't come here expecting a fight (believe it or not)... He is wanting to preach and debate.
OOC: I wasn't sure if you'd be coming back, so moved Paul out the back.

OOC:n00kz u alz! Ha, just kidding there. Seriously though, maybe you should try to restart this, weeding out people and focusing on a more narrow topic?
IC: The bulky, bald bodyguards of the Jerry Springer show lay in wait, ready to pounce once their holy master gave the order...

Dr. Jerest listen's for a good while, before speaking up at a lull in the vicious verbal fighting.

"First, one has to wonder if C.S. Lewis considered alternative fuels. A smile, and a slight chuckle issue forth, before being replaced by a much more serious expression

"Second, the discourse we've heard just goes to furthur underscore my point. All this vehment talk about the evils of communism, the importance of following holy scripture as some sort of law, taking a man's religious beliefs and mating them to his character, all of it shows why relgion should be left to each indivudal to find for themselves. The government should not, and cannot be estiblished on the basis of theocracy, else we shall see hard won freedoms and rights disapper is the quest for so-called 'morality'.


Carter smiled. "Yes. You do have a point there. Religion is just a bunch of nonsense, but people do have a right to practice their nonsense. The government cannot and should not endorse or restrict religion. "

The paramedics gave Paul the all clear.

"Unfortunate, that you're going to survive Calvinist. But since you are, how do you counter the Bible clearly and repeatedly saying that we should teach Christianity to every one like in; Mark 16:15 'And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.'"

Carter smiled. "Yes. You do have a point there. Religion is just a bunch of nonsense, but people do have a right to practice their nonsense. The government cannot and should not endorse or restrict religion. "
"Nonsense," exclaimed the Professor, "Let me give you the facts. Fact, there are clear historical documents showing the execution of Jesus Christ. Fact, sites noted in the Bible have often matched the Bible's description of what happened there. Fact, the Egyptians did let Jewish slaves go."

He paused to allow a response to the facts.

"Nonsense," exclaimed the Professor, "Let me give you the facts. Fact, there are clear historical documents showing the execution of Jesus Christ. Fact, sites noted in the Bible have often matched the Bible's description of what happened there. Fact, the Egyptians did let Jewish slaves go."

He paused to allow a response to the facts.

"Okay. So the Roman empire crucified a carpenter for sedition thousands of years ago. Egyptians let their slaves go. So the Bible is a decent document if I want to learn about some war that happened thousands of years ago, thousands of miles away. If I wanted to learn about that, I could read 'The War with Hannibal' too. Call me a heathen, but I'd like to see you turn some water into wine, come back from the dead, or walk across the ocean."

"Jesus performs miracles not me,” said the Professor, “And if he were to show you such things then it would be truly. Let me summarize, everything in the Bible fits historically. The world exists in perfection. And you have not one shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. God’s presence can be felt if you wish to feel it. Every arrow points to God, but you close your eyes, so you see no arrow and hence you refuse to accept God.”

"To use an analogy, 'if there is no evidence he is innocent, so he must be guilty'."

"Jesus performs miracles not me,” said the Professor, “And if he were to show you such things then it would be truly. Let me summarize, everything in the Bible fits historically. The world exists in perfection. And you have not one shred of evidence that God doesn’t exist. God’s presence can be felt if you wish to feel it. Every arrow points to God, but you close your eyes, so you see no arrow and hence you refuse to accept God.”

"To use an analogy, 'if there is no evidence he is innocent, so he must be guilty'."


"If the world exists in perfection, then how come there is war, famine, disease, death, torture, crime, and things like that? That hardly seems like perfection. Have you seen Jesus perform a miracle? Or do you rely on sources that are thousands of years old and have been translated numerous times? Tell me how to feel the presence of some invisible being that does not exist?"

Carter shrugged and decided to continue.

"Where are these so called arrows that point to this god of yours? If he exists, how come he does not show himself? If he really exists, why can does he not cause a glass of water to appear in front of me now?"

“That is neither here nor there, you cannot disprove something because you see no evidence,” said the Professor, “War, famine, disease, death, torture, crime; don’t disprove anything. These are Satan’s acts, as per the Bible. If you ask for a miracle I cite several; birth, peace and love. Farmina has never lost a war, yet has only fought those larger than it. And it is because God has benevolently protected us.”

The black man was getting a little sick of the topic, and leaned back towards the guard he had chosen to sit near if he had any questions. He began to speak, letting the panelists continue, and said it in a hushed whisper.

"Excuse me, but are we allowed to ask questions? Or will there be a designated time?"

Alexander chuckled. "If there was no God, we'd all be dead. Think about that for a moment."

“That is neither here nor there, you cannot disprove something because you see no evidence,” said the Professor, “War, famine, disease, death, torture, crime; don’t disprove anything. These are Satan’s acts, as per the Bible. If you ask for a miracle I cite several; birth, peace and love. Farmina has never lost a war, yet has only fought those larger than it. And it is because God has benevolently protected us.”

"Have you ever thought about a jihad? It's probably not because your god benevolently protects you that you have won wars. As for peace? What peace? There is never peace. Birth? If it is such a miracle, why is it such a painful process? As for love, that is merely our unconscious or pre-conscious mind ensuring the survival of our DNA. As for Satan, if I were to draw a Model 29 Smith and Wesson right now, and fire all six rounds into you, that would be me acting, not some invisible being."

Carter thumped his fist in his other palm and yelled, "If there is a god out there I defy him to strike down the good professor here! Now!"

Alexander chuckled. "If there was no God, we'd all be dead. Think about that for a moment."


"Being human has a 100 percent mortality rate. Think about that for a moment."

"Have you ever thought about a jihad? It's probably not because your god benevolently protects you that you have won wars. As for peace? What peace? There is never peace. Birth? If it is such a miracle, why is it such a painful process? As for love, that is merely our unconscious or pre-conscious mind ensuring the survival of our DNA. As for Satan, if I were to draw a Model 29 Smith and Wesson right now, and fire all six rounds into you, that would be me acting, not some invisible being."

Carter thumped his fist in his other palm and yelled, "If there is a god out there I defy him to strike down the good professor here! Now!"

Alexander sighed. "Ah... there is no peace because we don't want peace. Birth is painful because... actually, I don't know why. And love is a gift from God, we can just have sex without love you know. You know, God works in mysterious ways. And we being humans want to know those ways, especially you Professor. We don't trust in God enough, so we question him. If we only trusted in God we wouldn't be in this mess. And if God does something, it's because there's a reason that we cannot see."

Alexander raised his brow. "Especially you Professor. I'm sure God won't strike you down, he has much patience."

Karl was astonsihed at this, and said, " Sir, I tell you, regardless of the fuel, the analogy works regardless of whatever fuel you use, it is impossible to seperate man from God. As for such 'rights,' let me tell you that those rights are but the dreams of a mob of scribbling Frenchmen, hypocrites almighty, who pledged their love for man but committed many gross abuses of power. Let me tell you that the only way to govern is to use the guiding, enlightened hand of a group of intellgent persons, mandated by God to rule the people, to save them from themselves. I look to Somalia, Shay's Rebellion in Massachusetts, Kosovo, all examples of what happens when the mob is not ugided by a firm, steady, fatherly hand."

Dr. Jerest gives a slight smile, as he addresses the man from ALM. "What I speak of, sir, is not mob rule. It is democracy, well balanced to protect basic human rights."

He raises his hands in defense of the possible agrument to come. "Now, I know we are not to discuss politics in the forum, but doesn't it disturb anyone that a great number of these people preaching their absoulte are leaders in their own countries? I tell you, it is these people, ruling by the outdated precedent of divine right, that engage in great bloodshed. Sure, they may do great works as well, but only at the local level, which is where Triancia keeps it."

Will takes his glasses off, and rubs his eyes for a second, before repacing his spectles to there perch. "That being said, I would like to delve into my personal beliefs, and ask Permier Carter that he examine the complexity of this world, the system of physics, chemistry, and biology that allows it to run, and tell me that some higher force couldn't have been responsible for it."

"I'm inclined to move this debate towards democracy," said the Professor, "So the new question to debate is: does it work?"

Ooc- I'll make some more posts really soon, been busy and such, sorry for delay.

OOC: With regard to DM's question; if the debate becomes completely dismal, then the Panel will be slightly opened to audience questions.

OCC:

Is there room left on the Panel? If so i would like on.

Also DA got Deleted....

Dr_Twist.

OOC: Sorry not this time, DA is back (VoteEarly) and you missed the sign up thread.

"Have you ever thought about a jihad? It's probably not because your god benevolently protects you that you have won wars. As for peace? What peace? There is never peace. Birth? If it is such a miracle, why is it such a painful process? As for love, that is merely our unconscious or pre-conscious mind ensuring the survival of our DNA. As for Satan, if I were to draw a Model 29 Smith and Wesson right now, and fire all six rounds into you, that would be me acting, not some invisible being."

Carter thumped his fist in his other palm and yelled, "If there is a god out there I defy him to strike down the good professor here! Now!"




"Being human has a 100 percent mortality rate. Think about that for a moment."



Paul stood back up, giving a scoffing groan as he started to talk, "God is the source of all sin, not satan, satan cannot make you do anything God has not willed to allow satan the power to make you do. If it is not predestinated, it cannot happen... Don't you get that?"

Alexander laughed out loud, he thought it was a stupid question. "Of course it works. It has been working for the Island for 90 years. Sure it took a revolution to get there, but hey. Those who say otherwise are idiots." He gave a tounge in cheek glance at Paul and looked back at the Professor. "Why restrict the rights of man?"

"I'm inclined to move this debate towards democracy," said the Professor, "So the new question to debate is: does it work?"

"No, it doesn't," J.L. said. "Democracy permits fools to determine the nation's future. Many great nations have descended into corruption, gangsterism, lawlessness, anarchy, and chaos because of it."

"No, it doesn't," J.L. said. "Democracy permits fools to determine the nation's future. Many great nations have descended into corruption, gangsterism, lawlessness, anarchy, and chaos because of it."

Alexander chuckled and looked at J.L. "So why is the Island still standing? We have no corruption, no crime, no chaos or anarchy. Explain that, Generalissimo."

Alexander chuckled and looked at J.L. "So why is the Island still standing? We have no corruption, no crime, no chaos or anarchy. Explain that, Generalissimo."

"True, but the risk is too great to take chances," J.L. said. "Which is why I outlawed elections. I will not take the chance of letting fools destroy years of progress and plunge my nation back into the dark ages. The presence of idiocy in our world makes the existence of democracy a very, very dangerous and foolish thing."

"True, but the risk is too great to take chances," J.L. said. "Which is why I outlawed elections. I will not take the chance of letting fools destroy years of progress and plunge my nation back into the dark ages. The presence of idiocy in our world makes the existence of democracy a very, very dangerous and foolish thing."

Alexander raised his brow. "You doubt your People too much. The Rosian People are not fools, if they don't like something they get rid of it. Five regime changes in 90 years. State Capitalism, to hardline Socialism, to Centrist Socialism, to Libertarinism, and now Liberal Imperialism. And it always seems to make the Island better."

He smirked. "Maybe if you improved your education system you wouldn't have so many idiots."

((OOC: Note, Alexander is not a Government official, just a Rosian citizen. So you can't use him as an excuse to bomb me.))

Alexander raised his brow. "You doubt your People too much. The Rosian People are not fools, if they don't like something they get rid of it. Five regime changes in 90 years. State Capitalism, to hardline Socialism, to Centrist Socialism, to Libertarinism, and now Liberal Imperialism. And it always seems to make the Island better."

He smirked. "Maybe if you improved your education system you wouldn't have so many idiots."

((OOC: Note, Alexander is not a Government official, just a Rosian citizen. So you can't use him as an excuse to bomb me.))

"Most of our idiots cannot be helped," J.L. said, shaking his head sadly. "They refuse to renounce their leftist views."

"Most of our idiots cannot be helped," J.L. said, shaking his head sadly. "They refuse to renounce their leftist views."

Alexander chuckled. "I have leftist views, and I was the Minister of Defense before Robert got elected.... libertarian bastard. Either way, if they have leftist views they should have the right to express them. And you banning mathematics is not even worse. I bet you don't even know what a regular triangle is, do you? Huh?"

Alexander chuckled. "I have leftist views, and I was the Minister of Defense before Robert got elected.... libertarian bastard. Either way, if they have leftist views they should have the right to express them. And you banning mathematics is not even worse. I bet you don't even know what a regular triangle is, do you? Huh?"

"Sure, it's one of those three-sided, uh...thingies," J.L. said, looking confused.

"I'm inclined to move this debate towards democracy," said the Professor, "So the new question to debate is: does it work?"

"Democracy does not work in a capitalist society. We have a better system that determines who can be the leader of our nation."

"Sure, it's one of those three-sided, uh...thingies," J.L. said, looking confused.

Alexander laughed out loud once again. "Look at you, the leader of a powerful nation doesn't even know what a regular triangle is. It's a triangle with three congruent sides and three congruent angles. If you don't even know what a triangle is, what gives you the right to run a country and say democracy is bad, hm?"

((OOC: Nothing personal of course :P ))

Alexander laughed out loud once again. "Look at you, the leader of a powerful nation doesn't even know what a regular triangle is. It's a triangle with three congruent sides and three congruent angles. If you don't even know what a triangle is, what gives you the right to run a country and say democracy is bad, hm?"

((OOC: Nothing personal of course :P ))

(OOC: Lol, I know. My comments about leftists were all IC, too. ;))

"Democracy is bad," J.L. insisted.

(OOC: Lol, I know. My comments about leftists were all IC, too. ;))

"Democracy is bad," J.L. insisted.

((OOC: So it's not you saying there's a leftist conspiracy in the General forum :P))

"Hah!" Alexander retorted. "Like a Dictator, you avoided my question. What gives you the right to criticize democracy, when you were democratically elected and just put a law to keep you in power?"

((OOC: So it's not you saying there's a leftist conspiracy in the General forum :P))

"Hah!" Alexander retorted. "Like a Dictator, you avoided my question. What gives you the right to criticize democracy, when you were democratically elected and just put a law to keep you in power?"

(OOC: I meant, what I said about leftists being idiots is IC)

"I first came to power via a coup d'etat," J.L. reminded Alexander. "I assassinated the communist premier, exiled and executed all communists, and then held elections. So yes, I was democratically elected, but that's not how I originally came to power."

William smiles, and gives a short laugh. "Ah ha! Finally, a subject I feel at home in! The fact of the matter is, the Democracy, and, more specifaclly, the Democratic Republic, is the best form of government mankind has so far concocted. Who knows better how a govener should act than the governed, after all?"

The Doctor looks at J.L. with a mildly pericing glare. "And you, sir, should know that these fools you speak of are sometimes the next geniuses, the saviours of a country. In this day and age, the Governments of the world must allow the people to deal in their own affiars, and let the sparks of genius and creativity come forth. The gamble that we might get some fools in the process is usually a small price to pay for national greatness."

"I think it is appropiate to quote John Stuart Mill: In democracy, 'The people who exercise the power are not always the same people over whom it is exercised; and the 'self government' spoken of is not the government of each by himself, but of each by all the rest'," said the Professor, "Tyranny of the majority as Mill called it. The only form of government free from tryanny is when God's benevolant rule is excepted."

"I think it is appropiate to quote John Stuart Mill: In democracy, 'The people who exercise the power are not always the same people over whom it is exercised; and the 'self government' spoken of is not the government of each by himself, but of each by all the rest'," said the Professor, "Tyranny of the majority as Mill called it. The only form of government free from tryanny is when God's benevolant rule is excepted."

Karl smiled, stood up and said, "Bravo good sir, this is what I have been saying all along, the people are incompetent, they are nothing without the steady, guiding hand of a group of betters. I see democracies, mobocracies I call them, for what they are: rule of the mob, where the easily persuaded masses who care not for culture or education or their nation's true welfare squander its future away with their votes for candidates who have the nicer hair, or those who will promise them lower taxes even if it will mean economic suicide."

"The nations ruled by enlightened, fatherly rulers have produced much in the way of culture, from monuments like the Pyramids, to artworks like the Mona Lisa and the writings of Cervantes. Masterworks of jurispruidence like Hammurabi's Code and the Code Napoleon that enabled fair, equitable, clear-cut justice to all."

Karl's voice then increased in volume in a crecendo of controlled conviction: "What have mobocracies made? Reality television, where the scum of the masses debase themselves for the pleasure of other scum. Concepts like the recall, where the people can, on a whim, get rid of those persons they had just placed into power with their easily purchased votes."

"Pitiful rivalries involving sports teams, like the Red Sox versus the Yankees, or cereals, like Quisp and Quake, where people-even mere children, for God's sake!-yell at each other like the beasts they are, quibbling over who had the better players, or the better taste, or other subjective matters. Trash shams of justice systems, that base their justice on how much money a defendant can pony up to a lawyer who exploits the system for profit and manipulates the laws."

Karl then said, "So, I present my case." He then sat down.

"Democracy is to nations what ketchup is to ice cream: 100% incompatible," J.L. said.

Alexander scoffed. "And I suppose dictatorships are perfect? Democracy didn't make reality television, it was FOX okay? And no, you can be a democratic socialist too. Also, the recall is not in every nation, well not in the Island anyway. Plus sports are fun, yes I admit that athletes are overpayed. But again, that's the capitalist system. If we were all socialists, we wouldn't have that problem. But your case on the justice system is correct. In the Island we have a simpler system. If you kill somebody, you die. If you rape somebody, you get castrated."

He cleared his throat. "And how would you feel if a man dominated you hm? Not very happy I suppose. But you leaders standing here, you don't know how it is. You can criticize it all you want, but until God comes here and kills evil, this is the best thing we have!"

"Democracy is to nations what ketchup is to ice cream: 100% incompatible," J.L. said.

Karl said, "You could not have said it any better, sir. Mobocracy breeds ill-cultured, unruly peoples, societies guided by enlightened, fatherly rulers have had more culture, and achievements worth mentioning."

Alexander scoffed. "And I suppose dictatorships are perfect? Democracy didn't make reality television, it was FOX okay? And no, you can be a democratic socialist too. Also, the recall is not in every nation, well not in the Island anyway. Plus sports are fun, yes I admit that athletes are overpayed. But again, that's the capitalist system. If we were all socialists, we wouldn't have that problem. But your case on the justice system is correct. In the Island we have a simpler system. If you kill somebody, you die. If you rape somebody, you get castrated."

He cleared his throat. "And how would you feel if a man dominated you hm? Not very happy I suppose. But you leaders standing here, you don't know how it is. You can criticize it all you want, but until God comes here and kills evil, this is the best thing we have!"

"You are either unfamiliar with democracy's vices, or you really like ice cream with ketchup," J.L. said.

"You are either unfamiliar with democracy's vices, or you really like ice cream with ketchup," J.L. said.

Alexander scoffed. "Are you going to give me a detailed answer, or just your so called witty remarks?"

Alexander scoffed. "Are you going to give me a detailed answer, or just your so called witty remarks?"

"Witty is my style," my friend, J.L. said. He took out a 20-ounce bottle of A&W, quickly drained it, and said, "That's what democracy does to a nation's greatness. Drains it until nothing's left. Of course, not a pleasant way, like what one experiences when drinking such a delicious beverage. The road to hell is paved with democratic intentions, or so I always said."

"Witty is my style," my friend, J.L. said. He took out a 20-ounce bottle of A&W, quickly drained it, and said, "That's what democracy does to a nation's greatness. Drains it until nothing's left. Of course, not a pleasant way, like what one experiences when drinking such a delicious beverage. The road to hell is paved with democratic intentions, or so I always said."

Alexander chuckled. "Or..." He took out a small lighter and lit it up. "It can burn brightly as a beacon of hope." He turned it off. "Democracies can only be destroyed by the People. And if the People are properly educated, then democracies can live for thousands of years. But that's not always the case now hm?"

"How do you justify a system where a majority have power and a minority have none?" asked the Professor, "At least if a dictatorship goes foul there can be a revolt. A minority stands no chance of overthrowing a majority. Why should there be support for a system where power is concentrated in election winners and not spread equally amongst the people?"

"How do you justify a system where a majority have power and a minority have none?" asked the Professor, "At least if a dictatorship goes foul there can be a revolt. A minority stands no chance of overthrowing a majority. Why should there be support for a system where power is concentrated in election winners and not spread equally amongst the people?"

Alexander got angry. "Nonsense! The minority have some power, and the majority protect the minority. Otherwise, it is not a democracy."

"Are you claiming socialists protect the interests of capitalist, or conservatives protect the poor?" said the Professor, "No, these parties only rule in the name of those who vote for them."

"Are you claiming socialists protect the interests of capitalist, or conservatives protect the poor?" said the Professor, "No, these parties only rule in the name of those who vote for them."

Alexander grunted. "You didn't let me answer the question. Yes, they try to protect the capitalists, but not too much. And the conservatives, well they don't protect the poor too much."

He sighed. "There are some parties that are greedy, and there are some parties that are willing to do good. You cannot classify a democracy by its ruling party. You must look at all the parties. And what's better, a dictatorship with no voice? A commune that will fall? If you're so smart, what do you recommend?"

"In the book of Revelations it is clearly stated that all governments are corrupt except governments of God. Thus we should look to the almighty to lead our society," said the Professor, "Using the advice in the Bible and the church as God's representative."

"In the book of Revelations it is clearly stated that all governments are corrupt except governments of God. Thus we should look to the almighty to lead our society," said the Professor, "Using the advice in the Bible and the church as God's representative."

Alexander chuckled. "This makes your Government corrupt also. If you were to follow God's word, you wouldn't have an army, you would'nt be dictitorial, and you wouldn't be allied to wackjobs."

He raised his brow. "Or am I wrong?"

"Farmina is the closest nation on Earth to God," said the Professor, "As the Church is God's representative, it is only fair that the Church represent God in ruling. We have elections, to this there is no denial, but the Elected Councils have very limited power. Farminan government has two major features, God and highly checked democracy, with little more than ceremonial power. As for the military, we need it to bring non-believers under the church. Our alliance to Dumpsterdam, a matter of convenience."

"Farmina is the closest nation on Earth to God," said the Professor, "As the Church is God's representative, it is only fair that the Church represent God in ruling. We have elections, to this there is no denial, but the Elected Councils have very limited power. Farminan government has two major features, God and highly checked democracy, with little more than ceremonial power. As for the military, we need it to bring non-believers under the church. Our alliance to Dumpsterdam, a matter of convenience."

Carter stared at the professor incredulously. "You convert others to your religion by force of arms? My national socialist Farmina workers party meter has just pegged too. Lay of the fascism at least a little bit.."

"Tone dear sir, this is an academic debate after all. Consider this analogy: people know smoking is bad yet they keep it up, point a gun at them and I assure you they will stop."

"Tone dear sir, this is an academic debate after all. Consider this analogy: people know smoking is bad yet they keep it up, point a gun at them and I assure you they will stop."

"If I point a gun at someone, that person is liable to shoot me with a gun of his own, at least in P3X1299. Besides, smoking pot is legal."

"And there is a weakness in your ungodly government. You allow your people to harm themselves by smoking," said Professor Walter, "They know it is bad for them, but they can't help themselves. And you don't help them either."

"And there is a weakness in your ungodly government. You allow your people to harm themselves by smoking," said Professor Walter, "They know it is bad for them, but they can't help themselves. And you don't help them either."

If someone has no self control, that is hardly the fault of the government. My government does not allow people to harm themselves by smoking, neither does it forbid a person from smoking. It gives them the choice. As for me personally, it's not my job to help out people that have no self discipline. Our governing philosophy is that people should not be forced to help other people through repressive socialist taxes and they should be allowed to partake of their intoxicating substances of choice, and own their weapons of choice. The government doesn't have any prisons either."

"I think we are getting side tracked, our government tries to prevent eternal damnation," said the Professor, "It seems that the majority of angels will be Farminans. You refuse to help your people even over issues that aren't subject to religion. What good is a government if it doesn't protect people. It might as well be anarchy, that doesn't protect people either.."

"I think we are getting side tracked, our government tries to prevent eternal damnation," said the Professor, "It seems that the majority of angels will be Farminans. You refuse to help your people even over issues that aren't subject to religion. What good is a government if it doesn't protect people. It might as well be anarchy, that doesn't protect people either.."

"They that give up a little essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither. Our government does protect our people from exterior threat. It is the job of government not to protect the individual, but to preserve the liberty of the individual."

"Liberty to eternal damnation none the less!", declared the Professor turning ever so slightly red.

"Liberty to eternal damnation none the less!", declared the Professor turning ever so slightly red.

Carter folded his hands together.

"Well, if you believe in that sort of thing maybe. Then again, we're not in the habit of using force to compel people to participate in a religion. I wouldn't say much for the chances of your religion if your church has to convert people with force."

Carter chuckled slightly.

"What of the person that merely follows your religion to avoid the penalties of your military?"

Alexander got angry. "Nonsense! The minority have some power, and the majority protect the minority. Otherwise, it is not a democracy."


Paul started to laugh at this notion, "Really? So a small group of less powerful trash ought to be protected and thus allowed to impede progress?"

Carter folded his hands together.

"Well, if you believe in that sort of thing maybe. Then again, we're not in the habit of using force to compel people to participate in a religion. I wouldn't say much for the chances of your religion if your church has to convert people with force."

Carter chuckled slightly.

"What of the person that merely follows your religion to avoid the penalties of your military?"

"I think you misunderstand," said the Professor, "People willing submit to God, and willingly submit to our efforts to protect them from their sins. No person in Farmina unwillingly joined the church, and only after joining do we use force to prevent Satan's temptations."

"I think you misunderstand," said the Professor, "People willing submit to God, and willingly submit to our efforts to protect them from their sins. No person in Farmina unwillingly joined the church, and only after joining do we use force to prevent Satan's temptations."

Paul frowned and shook his head, immediately firing back, "God is the source of all temptation and sin, for Him who is most Holy as predestinated who is going to sin and fall from His grace, and who will be saved. Nobody can willingly or unwillingly do anything, it is all predestinated before time began."

Alexander chuckled. "I thought this was a discussion on Democracy."

"I think you misunderstand," said the Professor, "People willing submit to God, and willingly submit to our efforts to protect them from their sins. No person in Farmina unwillingly joined the church, and only after joining do we use force to prevent Satan's temptations."

"That is why P3X1299's government does not dabble in religious matters. We want to allow people their freedom of choice in a religion."

Alexander chuckled. "I thought this was a discussion on Democracy."

Carter smiled.

"Democracy as a rule does not work once people find out that they can elect communist leaders that steal money from those that have earned it to give it to lazy bums that won't work."

Paul frowned and shook his head, immediately firing back, "God is the source of all temptation and sin, for Him who is most Holy as predestinated who is going to sin and fall from His grace, and who will be saved. Nobody can willingly or unwillingly do anything, it is all predestinated before time began."

Karl himself laughed and said, "There you go, Old Boy. You intend to have us believe that God would go through the trouble of making us and plopping us on this sphere and choose who to damn and save from the get-go all at the same time? I say again, why did He not simply send those he thought unworthy of grace to Hell forthwith upon their birth, and make the globe a perfect place in His image?"

"Because I tell you, God has no such concept of Predestination, it was the concept of a damned Frenchman, scribbling in Geneva. A man, who being as such, is constrained by his natural fallibility? Truly I tell you, God wishes for all to repent and join him under the divine, fatherly hand of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and others picked out by God, not necessarily as a select 'Saved Only' club but rather as prophets and those who will do good in this world. Those who wrote the Bible and assured us of this were divinely inspired, but John Calvin, the man you slavishly follow, was not as such, rather, he was just another Protestant thinker with a fan following, living in Geneva. Are you to obey a such a mere man over God?"

Alexander nodded. "Indeed. Crazy Protestant thinkers, only Luther got it right."

"How do you justify a system where a majority have power and a minority have none?" asked the Professor, "At least if a dictatorship goes foul there can be a revolt. A minority stands no chance of overthrowing a majority. Why should there be support for a system where power is concentrated in election winners and not spread equally amongst the people?"

"Agreed," J.L. said. "Under my dictatorial leadership, there is 100% racial equality, and racism and intolerence toward others because of religious beliefs are unheard of. Unless you're a pinko, a tree hugger, a feminoid, or a Shooban, you can pretty much do what you want, provided you obey me."

"Agreed," J.L. said. "Under my dictatorial leadership, there is 100% racial equality, and racism and intolerence toward others because of religious beliefs are unheard of. Unless you're a pinko, a tree hugger, a feminoid, or a Shooban, you can pretty much do what you want, provided you obey me."

"And of course those aren't minorities one wants to protect," said the Professor.

Karl himself laughed and said, "There you go, Old Boy. You intend to have us believe that God would go through the trouble of making us and plopping us on this sphere and choose who to damn and save from the get-go all at the same time? I say again, why did He not simply send those he thought unworthy of grace to Hell forthwith upon their birth, and make the globe a perfect place in His image?"

"Because I tell you, God has no such concept of Predestination, it was the concept of a damned Frenchman, scribbling in Geneva. A man, who being as such, is constrained by his natural fallibility? Truly I tell you, God wishes for all to repent and join him under the divine, fatherly hand of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and others picked out by God, not necessarily as a select 'Saved Only' club but rather as prophets and those who will do good in this world. Those who wrote the Bible and assured us of this were divinely inspired, but John Calvin, the man you slavishly follow, was not as such, rather, he was just another Protestant thinker with a fan following, living in Geneva. Are you to obey a such a mere man over God?"


Paul stood back up and started quoting bible verses from heart, "Romans 8:28... And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth."

He grinned a bit before gesturing with his hand at the man, sort of an "I'm winning aren't I?" gesture.

He then continued speaking, "Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

After he finished with that verse, he smiled before making his own comments, "You sir are not Elect, you are blinded, blinded to the truth, you cannot find your way to God because firstly, no man can, God calls them to the truth and they see it and accept it. But He has predestinated you for eternal blindness, you not only will never see the truth, or find it, even if you did, you would reject it. You persecute the elect."


Paul then played his trump card, he just started to recite Revelation, he was going to recite the entire book of Revelation, interjecting his commentary into it. He sat back down, quickly jumped back up, and started to recite from his memory.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw–that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Greetings and doxology
John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father–to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp doubleedged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

He paused for a few seconds, he hadn't hardly taken a breath at all during the recitation, and he was somewhat winded from the fiery and booming tone he'd used. He then made his comments, "Don't you get it! You're doomed! You can't see the truth! The end times are upon us and you're scoffing at God! You're scoffing at God!"

He paced back and forth for a few seconds before continuing to recite, this time deciding to recite from Second Timothy.

He walked just a few feet in front of the man he was glaring at and began to speak, the words pouring out from his mouth like lava, "2 Timothy 3:1-9

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was."

He then calmed down a bit as he took a few steps back, but then suddenly shouted, "What do you think that means! Men abusing themselves, it's not masturbation you idiot, it's homosexuality, sodomy! men abusing themselves as in themselves being their own gender, abusing their own sex by butt-fucking each other! What do you think it means!"

Paul flailed his arms about to exaggerate his point, making a sweeping gesture before continuing, "What do you think that means! Leading captive silly women! What do you think it means, you reprobate bastard! What do you think? It means whores and feminists, it's simple, really, women around the world are being tricked into whoredom and misled into the path of damnation by the so-called liberation movements. And that part about the reprobate, take it to heart, for that is what you are. You just hate the notion that God hates people, because deep down you have a feeling, you're one of those people God hates!"

Paul breathed deeply and then sat back down.

"Do not bury the truth in a thousand words, Calvinist," declared the Professor, turning deep red and then recited, "Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.
Deuteronomy 7:8-10."

"God loves all who obey the commandments, it says so clearly, and Farminan enforced obedience brings about this. Dare you challenge the word of God."

Dr. Jerest, at this point, seems to be getting a little tired of all the church talk, rubbing his temples, he throws in his own assessment. "It never ceases to amaze me, how these theocracies, or so-called 'religous republics' dabble so much into the affiars of their citizens, with the ancienct misguided viewpoints. God did grant humanity free will, didn't he? Why can't you theologians just let the damned be the damned? Or are you really so fearful of acknowledging that different people than you might deserve the same rights you have, and that all people have the right to live their lives as they see fit, so long as they do no harm to others? If that truly is aganist God's will, and you fundalmentalist dogma-spewing dictators are the ones following His divine plan, then I should think that Hell might be a better option than Heaven!

Dr Jerest is almost out of his seat at this point. He slowly sits back down, and takes a deep breath. "I should mention that my personal views are not that of the Triancian Government, or it's people. " He states. "And, on the subject of democracy, I do think tyranny of the majority can be halted with a deep tradition of civil rights. Some also say a good system of checks and balances, with an imparital judicary, also assits in this."

"And of course those aren't minorities one wants to protect," said the Professor.

"Quite true," J.L. said, nodding.

"My dear Dr Jerest, all people have the right to go to heaven, we are just protecting that right. And yes God did create free will, but it doesn't mean he wanted peoples' mind tanted by the Devil," said the Professor.

"Farmina abandoned its democracy due to its checks and balances, inherently inefficient."

Paul stood back up and started quoting bible verses from heart, "Romans 8:28... And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth."

He grinned a bit before gesturing with his hand at the man, sort of an "I'm winning aren't I?" gesture.

He then continued speaking, "Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

After he finished with that verse, he smiled before making his own comments, "You sir are not Elect, you are blinded, blinded to the truth, you cannot find your way to God because firstly, no man can, God calls them to the truth and they see it and accept it. But He has predestinated you for eternal blindness, you not only will never see the truth, or find it, even if you did, you would reject it. You persecute the elect."


Paul then played his trump card, he just started to recite Revelation, he was going to recite the entire book of Revelation, interjecting his commentary into it. He sat back down, quickly jumped back up, and started to recite from his memory.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw–that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Greetings and doxology
John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father–to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp doubleedged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

He paused for a few seconds, he hadn't hardly taken a breath at all during the recitation, and he was somewhat winded from the fiery and booming tone he'd used. He then made his comments, "Don't you get it! You're doomed! You can't see the truth! The end times are upon us and you're scoffing at God! You're scoffing at God!"

He paced back and forth for a few seconds before continuing to recite, this time deciding to recite from Second Timothy.

He walked just a few feet in front of the man he was glaring at and began to speak, the words pouring out from his mouth like lava, "2 Timothy 3:1-9

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was."

He then calmed down a bit as he took a few steps back, but then suddenly shouted, "What do you think that means! Men abusing themselves, it's not masturbation you idiot, it's homosexuality, sodomy! men abusing themselves as in themselves being their own gender, abusing their own sex by butt-fucking each other! What do you think it means!"

Paul flailed his arms about to exaggerate his point, making a sweeping gesture before continuing, "What do you think that means! Leading captive silly women! What do you think it means, you reprobate bastard! What do you think? It means whores and feminists, it's simple, really, women around the world are being tricked into whoredom and misled into the path of damnation by the so-called liberation movements. And that part about the reprobate, take it to heart, for that is what you are. You just hate the notion that God hates people, because deep down you have a feeling, you're one of those people God hates!"

Paul breathed deeply and then sat back down.

Karl then lashed out at Paul, leaping up and looking him in the eye with furious anger. "So, thou will tell me how I will live, eh? Some missionary-man from the wilds of Africa will tell me how to live, how my beliefs will be?"

He then continued, his voice getting more furious and almost daring in its manner: "I am opposed to homosexuality, I have read Leviticus, besides, it is disgusting. I am opposed to feminism, for it is a hypocritical outgrowth of the mobocrat culture, preaching endlessly in the name of so-called 'women's rights' yet lifitng not a finger to defend them, content rather, to sit in their thrones and mock society, like many institutions in a mobocracy do."

He then lowered his voice, and began to speak calmly: "But what I am also opposed to is pride. Is pride not a sin? If so, then you are committing it now. You are committing it by making false assumptions about me. For I do accept the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I do recognize the world will end, I am a firm beleiver in the Second Coming. I certainly do recognize a lot of things in Christian theology. But the ravings of a Geneva madman and his 'Saved Only Club' are not one of them. I do not accept the existence of such an elect. Especially when there are men like you in it, who brag and shout about how they will go to Heaven. Self-righteous fools, who overlook those parts of the Bible that encourage the unification of all under the aegis of God, like my Farminan friend's Deuteronomy 7:8-10. I wonder if Calvin ever thought about men like you when he penned his heresy. He would have burned his manuscripts if he saw you. Anyway, God's grace is irresisitible, so if I was 'chosen,' it can't be rejected, so I beat you on that count...see the loopholes in your ideas? You'd have to share Heaven with a poor old doubter like me, personally, I laugh at the irony."

He then wrapped up by saying: "Mr. Sthalecker, let me tell you a little about myself. I was born in a religious Lutheran family that had to pursue its faith under the eyes of the East German regime. They had to hide their faith, so they would not be snuffed out by the Soviets or their Honecker lackeys. I may have joined the Stasi, as I believed in law and order and a duty to the State. I even loved my job. But I never took the ideals of the so-called Deustches Demokratischer Republik to heart. I always stayed with God, never forgot the teachings of God, or my parents and their devotion to God under the duress of an Atheist regime, how they sacrificed, kept silent in fear of death, held hidden prayer meetings and taught me about the wonders of the Lord God. They live today, a testament to their faith. A testament to their will. And you would simply cast them out, deny them their labors, deny them their reward in Heaven for their dutiful faith under pressure? Shame on you, Herr Sthalecker."

Wanting to renew the debate the Professor said, "God is white and hence all blacks are inferior to white people."

If that statement didn't spark debate, nothing would.

Karl said, "Well, I believe that the real inferior ones are not blacks, but those who embrace marxism and other mobocratic ideals, and leech off of society. Only those who are enlightened by study and good citizenship, as well as military service, can be considered superior beings. Though I do think Africa would benefit from European control, it would calm things down."

"The left are not inferior, they are outright evil," declared Walter.

Wanting to renew the debate the Professor said, "God is white and hence all blacks are inferior to white people."

If that statement didn't spark debate, nothing would.

Carter laughed.

"A very wise man once told me that god is dead, so that makes his skin color irrevelant. I believe that the real inferiors are the people that cannot work, and hence must leech off of the charity and good nature of others. Doesn't your religious text say 'He who does not work will not eat'?"

Carter laughed.

"A very wise man once told me that god is dead, so that makes his skin color irrevelant. I believe that the real inferiors are the people that cannot work, and hence must leech off of the charity and good nature of others. Doesn't your religious text say 'He who does not work will not eat'?"

"The Bible teaches charity, but it does condemn 'leeches' as you call them," said the Professor, "We do not condemn inferiority, just recognise it."

"The Bible teaches charity, but it does condemn 'leeches' as you call them," said the Professor, "We do not condemn inferiority, just recognise it."

"So, does the Bible teach that one has to help another?"

"Yes and no," said a cautious Professor.

Wanting to renew the debate the Professor said, "God is white and hence all blacks are inferior to white people."

If that statement didn't spark debate, nothing would.

(OOC: Does the Prof. really feel that way, or was he just trying to spark debate, or both?)

(OOC: Does the Prof. really feel that way, or was he just trying to spark debate, or both?)

OOC: He was trying to spark debate, but he also believes God to be a straight, white male; in fact he wrote a book on it.

"Yes and no," said a cautious Professor.

"How does that work," Carter demanded.

"How does that work," Carter demanded.

"Yes, we do help people, no we don't help if it creates sloth and weakness," explained the Professor, throwing in the clique, "Teach a man to fish."

"Yes, we do help people, no we don't help if it creates sloth and weakness," explained the Professor, throwing in the clique, "Teach a man to fish."

"I like that system," Carter replied. "Speaking of teaching a man to fish, if you do that, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day. I can vouch for that from first hand experience."

"I like that system," Carter replied. "Speaking of teaching a man to fish, if you do that, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day. I can vouch for that from first hand experience."

The Professor laughed at Carter's comments, "I suppose the fisherman must be able to afford the beer first."

The Professor laughed at Carter's comments, "I suppose the fisherman must be able to afford the beer first."

Carter smiled. "Of course. You don't think that we give away free beer do you? Anyone that has money can get beer or a multitude of other mind altersubstances."

"Well on that rather disturbing note, I would like to thank all our participants," said the Professor, "Please give our panel an applause."

The applause began and the lights faded out.

Ooc- is this over then? Sorry I didn't get many posts in lately, I had over 6 hours of homework the other day, and a bunch the day before. I was drunk at least Friday and Saturday, and so I haven't been posting too much overall. If this is still going, I'll post a few today.

OOC: I would like to start all over, there were too many dud panelists and I will cut two people out of the next one.

Would you like to help organise it?

OOC: I hope I wasn't one of the duds? In any case, I liked a majority of the stuff, until it started going down into one or two line poses.

OOC: I would like to start all over, there were too many dud panelists and I will cut two people out of the next one.

Would you like to help organise it?


Ooc- Yah, maybe, we can talk. :)

OOC: If was fun to provoke those religious guys! Can I do this again?

P3X1299 I would welcome.

Trianca, I'm not sure, I'll see who else wants to be in, and who everyone else wants in.