NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering what is the rest of the worlds views towards Fascism.
Is it ok?
Can it be tolerated?
Is it diobolical?
Does it have hope for the future?

I want to know what you think.

Depends on what type of fascism you incorporate ... if your people cannot deal with nationalism without war your country is destined for failure - but if you can create a fascism like Italy's,and you don't ally with a country like Germany, then fascism can suceed, and in fact has been proven to succeed.

Depends on what type of fascism you incorporate ... if your people cannot deal with nationalism without war your country is destined for failure - but if you can create a fascism like Italy's,and you don't ally with a country like Germany, then fascism can suceed, and in fact has been proven to succeed.

OOC: When has it succeeded? I'm not being sarcastic, but curious. Of all the fascist countries to emerge in the twenties and thirties, only one survived WWII, and that was Spain, who stayed neutral in the war. Even so, the Falange (Spanish fascist party) fell from power as soon as Franco died in '75 and Juan Carlos set up a constitutional monarchy.

Depends on what type of fascism you incorporate ... if your people cannot deal with nationalism without war your country is destined for failure - but if you can create a fascism like Italy's,and you don't ally with a country like Germany, then fascism can suceed, and in fact has been proven to succeed.

I totally agree, Italy is the best model for Fascism I think.
Anyone else?

La Falange de la Jons still receives various support, in fact I voted for them for a position in the Madrid Assembly. However, an example of a succeeding fascism is Italy, as had it not been for Hitler's entrance into the Second World War, and El Duce's pure stupidity with foreign politics, Italy would have survived. Indeed, it was one of the first nations to leave the depression, although residue still remained.

On top of that, most modern economies use an aspect of fascist economical policy, and it works, and the name escaped me for now..but the idea is that the people work for the state - thus promoting a more centralized authority/rule... and centralization always works. :)

Provided your government is committed to free trade and enterprise, the People's Republic will have few qualms about establishing diplomatic relations so that we may prosper together.

When has it succeeded? I'm not being sarcastic, but curious. Of all the fascist countries to emerge in the twenties and thirties, only one survived WWII, and that was Spain, who stayed neutral in the war. Even so, the Falange (Spanish fascist party) fell from power as soon as Franco died in '75 and Juan Carlos set up a constitutional monarchy.

And shouldn't this be in General?

The falange party still exists in spain today.
Also our government, which IS Fascist whishes to know what the world thinks of Fascism in general.

Provided your government is committed to free trade and enterprise, the People's Republic will have few qualms about establishing diplomatic relations so that we may prosper together.

We would be proud to establish relations with you provided you send us a TG

Fascism is an undeniably corrupt system, made only to benefit those in power.

It would help to define it

I've heard it defined thusly:

right-wing social agenda

left-wing economic agenda

Fascism is an undeniably corrupt system, made only to benefit those in power.

As is every other government where humans rule it..including Communism, as obviously proved by the immediate turn from a rule of the people to the rule of a sole man - with absolute power.

It would help to define it

I've heard it defined thusly:

right-wing social agenda

left-wing economic agenda

Sorta...although the economic agenda may be described as leftist, it also promotes centralization, and the strength of the state - which is a right wing ideal.

It would help to define it

I've heard it defined thusly:

right-wing social agenda

left-wing economic agenda

OOC: Sort of. As communism is a dictatorship of the proletariat, fascism is the dictatorship of the elite.

And Italia, sorry, but your post wasn't really clear as to whether or not you were asking the question ICly or not. My mistake.

Sorta...although the economic agenda may be described as leftist, it also promotes centralization, and the strength of the state - which is a right wing ideal.

OOC: Depends on what group of "right-wingers". In America for example, conservatives are generally pro-limited government, and anti-centralization. The current administration has not been the best at upholding this ideal, but look at someone like Reagan.

It would help to define it

I've heard it defined thusly:

right-wing social agenda

left-wing economic agenda
All fascist countries don't have an exclusively left wing economic agenda. In fact, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are all the leaders of the Soviet Union, except maybe Gorbachev, as well as Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein. Most fascist countries are ruled by a small group of people, who are generally in bed with large corporations (Pinochet especially, and Peron), or at the least, had a centrist's economic policy (Hitler, Mussolini, Franco).

OOC: Sort of. As communism is a dictatorship of the proletariat, fascism is the dictatorship of the elite.
I disagree. Communism, as an ideology, does not advocate control of society, so in theory, a communist state is not a dictatorship. However, in practice, every communist state that has existed was also a fascist state, so, consequently, the people had no power, and Communist states were a dictatorship of the elite as well.

The economic policies of RL Communist states were completely different from the economic policies of past RL fascist states - so calling Communist regimes fascist is a complete falsity. Moreover, RL Communist states also had different social ideologies than fascist states.

So, although the Communist states of the real world may have been dictatorships, they were not fascist since they did not follow the fascist party guidelines (outlined by El Duce in the 20s).

Yeah, what he said.

;)

OOC: Do you guys think Fascism has any future in the RL world? There seem to be so many 'democracies' and republics in the world I cant see how Fascism could rise into power in a economically powerfull nation.
What conditions would lead to the kind of revolution Mussolini had today?
Could the RL world even accept Fascism today? If yes, under what conditions?

Fascist economic ideologies are present in all economies of the modern world..however, fascism as a whole will not return to the real world mainstage for a while - perhaps ever...Hitler ruined it all.

La Falange de la Jons still receives various support, in fact I voted for them for a position in the Madrid Assembly. However, an example of a succeeding fascism is Italy, as had it not been for Hitler's entrance into the Second World War, and El Duce's pure stupidity with foreign politics, Italy would have survived. Indeed, it was one of the first nations to leave the depression, although residue still remained.

On top of that, most modern economies use an aspect of fascist economical policy, and it works, and the name escaped me for now..but the idea is that the people work for the state - thus promoting a more centralized authority/rule... and centralization always works. :)
As a Canadian I disagree that Centralization always works! Centralization is how you end up with a dictatorship. We are now re-analyzing our, western Canada, involvement with the continuation of the Canadian gov't. We finally just enable the west to get out of an eastern elected dictatorship of Cretian the Idiot. The ratio that is asigned leaves Ontario in control of the federal gov't. The only control that the West has is by fighting back with our Provincial Gov't. It was not that long ago that the Cretian Dictatorship went so far as to call the Americians stupid and ignorant. Now given that there are some that fall into that category there are some like that in every country/ethnic group. He managed to drive a wedge between the States and the West by saying that he spoke for the entire country when he was saying the exact opposite of what the Canadian people felt. So NO centralization does not always work by any streach of the imagination.

Fascist economic ideologies are present in all economies of the modern world..however, fascism as a whole will not return to the real world mainstage for a while - perhaps ever...Hitler ruined it all.

Indeed he did. And for that may he forever burn in Hell.
Do you think Fascism could come back under another name?
In Central Florida recently there has been political activity with a group calling themselves "Moralists."
They want America ruled by a Triumverate elected by a senate for life terms. I'm not sure what thier party lone is but I'll try to find out.
Any back to the discussion.

Any more comments?

I don't think Fascism is a viable political force anymore. History has, correctly in my opinion, showed it as the totalitarian oppression that it was, and unlike Communism, it doesn't have the romantic element that keeps university students advocating it when's it been proven a failure.

Sorry, let me retract my previous comment.. *slaps face*

I completely forgot the president of North Italy is an open fascist, and will probably become president of all of Italy... and the last French election Le Pen, an open fascist and rascist, also almost won the French presidential elections... so I guess, fascism may be on the rise again.

Sorry, let me retract my previous comment.. *slaps face*

I completely forgot the president of North Italy is an open fascist, and will probably become president of all of Italy... and the last French election Le Pen, an open fascist and rascist, also almost won the French presidential elections... so I guess, fascism may be on the rise again.

Italy Fascist once again? Il mio Dio dolce!
What is his name? I wish to write him a letter!
For this news Italia di Fascista will have a week of celebrations in your nations name!

Sorry, let me retract my previous comment.. *slaps face*

I completely forgot the president of North Italy is an open fascist, and will probably become president of all of Italy... and the last French election Le Pen, an open fascist and rascist, also almost won the French presidential elections... so I guess, fascism may be on the rise again.

Really?

Damn our American media for not telling us about the world!

*slaps some CNN dude upside the face*

Sorry, let me retract my previous comment.. *slaps face*

I completely forgot the president of North Italy is an open fascist, and will probably become president of all of Italy... and the last French election Le Pen, an open fascist and rascist, also almost won the French presidential elections... so I guess, fascism may be on the rise again.

Il mio Dio dolce!
Il Prasie è al cielo!
Do you know his name?
Because of this news will shall have a statue erected in your honor in our nation! Consider us forever friends!

OOC: Sorry for the double post, computer slow tonight
IC: Let us continue the discussion

"Fascism is the political equivalent to Syphilis."

-Prime Minister Anne Eriksen

"Fascism is the political equivalent to Syphilis."

-Prime Minister Anne Eriksen

Please elaborate.

"There is no need to elaborate. You asked our opinion of Fascism, you got it."

-Prime Minister Anne Eriksen

bump

OOC: just so it's clear, the Prime Minister's comments are IC

yes

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuump

As is every other government where humans rule it..including Communism, as obviously proved by the immediate turn from a rule of the people to the rule of a sole man - with absolute power.
*sigh*
Have you ever read John Locke's works? Self-government is the best government IMO

and the communist manifesto...the "utopia" known as pure communism is where there is NO state at all. So in truth, i believe Stalin Communism was horrible

I totally agree, Italy is the best model for Fascism I think.
Anyone else?

A peaceful Fascism would only be effective at a certain stage of economic development. Specifically, a period of rapid industrialization. That's what Mussolini conceived it for. After industrialization it would run into the same problems as other types of planned economies and stagnate (the economy).

Sorta...although the economic agenda may be described as leftist, it also promotes centralization, and the strength of the state - which is a right wing ideal.

Really? My right wing friends would almost all disagree. They're federalists with a libertarian ideology (which is really left wing in some ways) regarding the state (it is a necessary evil, but still evil, and should be kept as small as possible with many checks and balances built in to limit it's power)... My left wing friends support a powerful centralized state to right wrongs and promote equality.

Maybe it varies by country. We have some lunatic nationalists, but even they tend to distrust the state and want it kept in check.

When push comes to shove, I think left and right wing generalizations don't work. The system is too simplistic. One country’s ‘right wing’ may be center-left in another…

Exactly

Sorry, let me retract my previous comment.. *slaps face*

I completely forgot the president of North Italy is an open fascist, and will probably become president of all of Italy... and the last French election Le Pen, an open fascist and rascist, also almost won the French presidential elections... so I guess, fascism may be on the rise again.

I think your falling into the routine of using 'fascist' to describe anything bad. Le Pen is a right wing nationalist jerk, but not an ideological 'fascist'. Fascism is a serious school of ideological thought. An outgrowth of the syndicalist school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism

Negative. Le Pen openly stated he believed in a fascist government - and the President of Northern Italy is openly a neo-fascist - however, unlike Le Pen, he is not rascist, and he did pass laws promoting Arab/African immigration into Italy.

I do not recall his name - but I will email my uncle in Spain.

and the communist manifesto...the "utopia" known as pure communism is where there is NO state at all. So in truth, i believe Stalin Communism was horrible

Hehe..I read it some five times and every time I came out with the same conclusion - it yells out, "Please, corrupt official, take advantage of me using revolutionary slurs and oppress me and create an intentional famine in the Ukraine and kill millions upon millions!"..no really, it invites dictatorship - and corrupt at that.

Negative. Le Pen openly stated he believed in a fascist government - and the President of Northern Italy is openly a neo-fascist - however, unlike Le Pen, he is not rascist, and he did pass laws promoting Arab/African immigration into Italy.

I do not recall his name - but I will email my uncle in Spain.


Ok, if he says he is then fair enough.

PS
Racism was not a component of Italian fascism.

Neither was it a component of German fascism - it was only a component of Hitler's ideologies, and it was only to unite the Aryan nation under Hitler's command, without any signs of wavering... however, it was a fact of 1920s to 1970s fascism, as fascist regimes did promote rascism to in turn promote nationalism.

Racism was not a component of Italian fascism.

Of course not. Only Hitler and the Nazis built their fascist state around a racial mystique. Mussolini, Franco, and the others were political.

Fascism is always bad because it is overly-aggressive nationalism. However, imperial communism is equally as bad, if not worse (as it is harder to collapse). Both are forms of dictatorships. There are benevolent dictatorships, however, which may not be considered either of the above.

and the communist manifesto...the "utopia" known as pure communism is where there is NO state at all. So in truth, i believe Stalin Communism was horrible

Utopia indeed. :)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1893554457/qid=1107570690/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-6622205-0133449?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

People need to look past the claims and more at the advocates and their methods. Everyone is going to 'claim' to promote a bright future. But if class hatred, smashing imagined capitalist conspiracies, and liquidating segments of the population or whole populations (which Marx and Engels did) were the means... well, maybe their bright future is BS. :)