NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC> Salutations to New Shiron for being most excellent and helpingful! So much that I use a non-word in the praise, lol.

The Terms of the Treaty of Madrid:
Treaty of Madrid 1908
1.Germany annexes the Netherlands, Denmark, and Flemish Belgium (including Antwerp and Brussels), retains Alsace Lorraine, and German Cameroon and German Southwest Africa are returned to German control.

2.Russia annexes Turkish Armenia, Constantinople, and parts of Persia.
3.Italy annexes Malta and Tunisia.
4.Greece and Bulgaria annex Thrace (split between them).
5.USA purchases the Philippines, Gilbert Islands, Caroline Islands from Germany for $100 Million.

6.Iceland is granted independence from Denmark, British Hannover purchases Greenland from Denmark.

7.Cyprus and parts of western Turkey annexed by Greece.
8.Australia purchases German Solomon Islands, Samoa, and New Guinea.
9.Japan purchases German concession of Tsingtao.
10.German annexes Dutch East Indies.
11.Japan acquires Korea, Manchuria returned to China and both Russia and Japan pull out their military forces except for a token force.
12.France acquires Syria, Lebanon. Britain acquires Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan. Arabia granted independence.

13.Britain given southern Persia.
14.France acquires Wallonia (southern Belgium).
15.Italy acquires Corsica, but pulls out of French Riveria.

16.Naval treaty reducing arms race negotiated. 10 – 10 -7-7 -4 -4 ratio (US/UK/Germany/Japan/Italy/France), limitations of cruiser size, limitations on submarine use, ban on chemical weapons, (basically the Washington Naval Treaty from real life without the battleship holiday)


US and UK to each have 20 dreadnoughts and battlecruisers (which are considered capital ships), Germans and Japanese to have 14 apiece, the Italians and French limited to 8 apiece. Russia is also included at the 8 ratio, as is the Confederacy. Cruisers limited to 10,000 tons with maximum of 8 inch guns. Excess ships to be scrapped or otherwise disposed of (used predreadnought battleships anyone?) This treaty also allows the navies to modernize without retriggering the naval arms race that existed prewar.

This is setting the stage for next war. Roosevelt would have pushed for a naval treaty, British would have gone for it, and so would everyone else because they are essentially broke and can't afford a naval race right now. Later on the Fascist and Right Wing types will rail against the surrender of soveriegnity and power implied.

even as the treaty is signed, Kemel takes power in Turkey as leader of the Young Turks and war between the Greeks and Turks flares up again in western Turkey and Cyprus.

Meanwhile, as German troops return to Germany, France falls apart as right and left wing extremists both call for revolution and the government falls shortly thereafter. In the colonies, the Right wingers control sufficient military forces to retain control, and they strongly control rural France. In the big cities, especially Paris, but also Marsailles, Lille and other heavily industralized cities, the Communists manage to seize control -- the French Civil War has begun.

In Russia, rioting has forced the government to pull troops to the cities and some of them join in with the workers. In St. Petersburg, the sailors join in with the Reds and the Winter Palace is seized, while in Moscow the Kremlin manages to hold out but the rest of the city falls under Red control. The Russian Civil War has begun as well.

(thus endth this thread and the groundwork is prepared for the next one)

bump

1909
Full fledged civil war in Russia, France and full scale war between Greeks and Turks, as well as civil unrest and a growing communist movement in the Confederacy (amongst the oppressed Black population) and a growing quasi fascist extremism developing in the White population.

In France, the Socialists (with strong Communist influence) take over France north of the Seine including Paris, as well Marseilles, while the Nationalists have secured the remainder of the country. Neither side is well organized, and is depending on bands of veterans organized into brigades and corps to fight each other. Atrocities against the upper classes are common in the Socialist areas and against 'agitators' in the Nationalist areas. The Navy also falls apart as the officer corps is pitted against the sailors, and most of the fleet is quickly rendered useless. However some crews do stay loyal to the better officers enabling the Nationalists to blockade Marsailles and ensure access to loyal forces in Algeria. The Nationalists end up abandoning efforts in Morocco though, and the Spanish take over control of the remainder of that region.

The other colonies (French Indochina, the French Caribbean and Polynesia, French West Africa) remain under solid Nationalist control... for now.

In Russia, parts of the empire pull away. especially the Baltic states, Finland, and the Ukraine as the Reds and Loyalists begin full scale military operations in the heart of Russia, as well as in the Urals region.

In North America, the US and British Hannover are appalled when news of large scale lynchings begins to leak out of the Confederacy, as well as reports of forced labor camps. Both countries quietly warn the CSA that mass murder will not be tolerated. Although in parts of the CSA the black population significantly outnumbers the white population, overall there are roughly twice as many whites as blacks, and the whites still monopolize the apparatus of power. However, a huge proportion (nearly 1/3) of white men of military age died in the Great War, and the army itself was badly shattered in the fighting in that war. The CSA economy begans to slide quickly into a Depression as racial problems begin to severely impact the economy.

The Germans complete their pullout of France after the peace treaty is signed and the last of the British, American, British Hannover and CSA troops return home from Europe, and the various nations demobilize as much of their armies and navies as they can in order to cut costs.

1909:

As all of these wars are going on, rightist groups in Germany argue for the intervention of the armed forces in France, Asia Minor and Russia, depending on their specific stripes. However, these demands have little currency outside of the extreme right wing and Germany decides to be thankful it's not in a situation of civil war and focus on consolidating itself.

The new Kaiser, Friedrich Wilhelm III manages to maintain relative social order, in large measure due to a noticeable easing of the rather strict German political system previously, especially in the reduction of the political influence of the military and by his own immense popularity as 'the man who won the war'. The Chancellor, almost forgotten under his father, Friedrich II and under the General Staff-dominated reign of his brother, Wilhelm II, finds that his post is now very important. A moderate liberal, the new Kaiser hopes to maintain Germany under a mixture of tradition and modern principles.

A sizeable revolt breaks out in the Dutch East Indies upon the official transfer of power, but the intervention of several German divisions and the conversion of the small, but important Javan elite ensures that there is no real threat to the maintenence of the colony. Already, shipments of rubber, metals and especially oil are beginning to arrive in the metropolitan power.

Despite the fact that Germany won the war, almost all German generals wish to avoid the immense bloodshed of the Great War and military theorists begin to work on the problem of the power of defensive trenches. The issue of military mobility begins to be looked at in a very intensive matter, as all concerned do not wish to see more trench warfare.

1910
the French Civil War now heats up as both sides now have a reasonably secure power base and territory to work with. The Nationalists begin with a full scale assault on Marsailles, which falls after weeks of bitter urban fighting that leaves much of the city in ruins and tens of thousands of civilians dead. Large scale executions begin almost immediately after as socialist leaders are taken out and shot before being buried in mass graves. This triggers another uprising and this time the Nationalists use gas to bring it to an end. Nearly 200,000 people die in all from the city of Marsailles, along with nearly 50,000 Nationalist troops. The world of course is appalled.

Meanwhile the Socialists attempt an offensive of their own and attempt to capture the Nationalist held port of Le Havre and conquer Normandy. The Socialists are week in staff officers and the offensive quickly begins to fall apart as logistics collapse. But they do take Le Havre, giving them a sizeable port, and secure their hold on the Seine valley, useful when the Nationalist counteroffensive kicks them back out of Normandy.

In Russia the Civil War continues as well. The Socialists now control the heart of Russia (the Moscow/St. Petersburg/Smolensk/Novgorod/Tula areas, plus both sides of the northern Volga River). They also manage to secure the Urals region. But the Loyalists still control the Transurals and Siberia, and most of Belorussia, as well as the northern Caucasus, the Crimea, and Murmansk and Archangel. The Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuiania, Estonia, Finland, and Georgia declare their independence but the Nationalists manage to retain control over Central Asia, the remainder of the Caucasus, and Armenia.

Bulgaria takes over from the Russians in Constantinople however as that garrison finds itself basically abandoned (a peaceful takeover).

The Greeks field army is shattered and then destroyed in western Turkey in a series of battles as the now well led Turkish troops under General Kemel (who are getting British support in the form of weapons) are determined to ensure that at least Asian Turkey remains Turkish. This triggers a massive panic and hundreds of thousands of Greeks flee for their lives to the coast. British ships pick them up and transport them to Greece but tens of thousands are caught and butchered by vengeful Turks. Nearly 3,000 years of Greek settlement in western Turkey comes to an end in a few months.

In the Confederacy, the unrest continues as does the oppression but remains at the same level as the year before. Japan quietly secures all of Sakkalin Island and expands its troop presence in Manchuria above the agreed upon limit but the Russians pull out completely as they have other things to worry about. In China, a group of rebels puts together the basis for a revolution under the leadership of Sun Yat Sen.

1911
The remains of the Belgian Army, still held together by the young Belgian King and still barricaded in Ostende, sides with the Nationalists. A Nationalist offensive from the south, and Walloon offensive from the north, drive deep into Socialist held France. The offensive in the south drives across the Seine in the face of weak resistance near Toryes, and then reaches the Marne River at Chateau Thierry before Socialist resistance collapses. Nationalist progress is considerably assisted by the widespread use of aircraft to spot Socialist troop concentrations. From there it is a simple matter to drive northwest and link up with King Leopold at Arras. Within weeks resistance has collapsed everywhere but in Lille and Paris, and the Nationalists storm Lille, taking it in a bloody fight.

Now only Paris remains and the Nationalists move against it, securing the outer region of the city in bloody fighting before calling a halt to the offensive and sealing off the city. The seige lasts until near the end of the year and as food supplies run out, the Socialists attempt a desperate attack to break the seige. Tens of thousands are mown down before the Nationalists launch their own attack and secure Paris. In the fighting the sacred treasures are mostly spared, although the Eiffel Tower suffers some minor damage.

The Civil War finally is over however. Nearly 500,000 more French are dead (along with the severe death toll from the Great War). Nearly 100,000 more locked up in prison, and many of these are deported later to French Guyana or French Indochina. The Nationalist government installs King Leopold as the monarch of the new Kingdom of France, but France is really ruled by the solidly reactionary monarchist and fascist parties and he is really only a figurehead.

In Russia the fighting continues, but the Loyalists are defeated in Belorussia and Poland. The Socialists accept Finland's independence and then the Baltic States but vow to restore the rest of the Russian Empire. Lenin takes power and the new Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is created (the Soviet Union). The Communists take control of the Soviet Union shortly after that.

In the Confederacy, the Fascist Purity Party wins the election and harsh measures are passed in the CSA congress. But not all of the CSA states agree with this and Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee object strenously. The CSA President, Walter Thurmond, declares the three governors to be traitors to the south, triggering the secession of all three states and creating a major crisis in North America.

When in November the CSA Army is ordered in to bring the "treason" to a end, the three governors invite the US in to help defend them, and this triggers the Second War Between the States. By December US troops are moving in by rail to defend North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia and the CSA Army is in chaos at regiments from those states are fighting regiments from the other CSA states. The Confederate government is forced to retreat to Montgomery Alabama. Meanwhile, in Mississippi and Alabama, a massive uprising breaks out as Blacks seize the moment to fight for their own freedom. White countermeasures are brutal and atrocities become more frequent.

Greece and Turkey sign a peace treaty after the British seize Cyrpus and bring the fighting there to an end and offer to broker an agreement. Turkey regains Asian Turkey (although not Armenia) and Greece is forced to settle for the portions of European Thrace it acquired.

In China, revolutionaries over throw the last of the Manchu Emperours and establish the Republic of China. In reality however, the Nationalist Chinese only control a portion of the country as many of the Imperial generals become warlords more intent of securing their own power.

Elsewhere the world is essentially at peace. For now.

1912
The Second War Between the States heats up as Virginia, Tennessee, and North Carolina formally join the US (after accepting 13th - 18th Amendments outlawing slavery, citizenship for Blacks, no seccession amendment, women right to vote). US troops (which now include the troops of those 3 states) invade South Carolina and Georgia with a secondary drive across the Mississippi River from Arkansas and Lousiana into Mississippi. In some places CSA forces immediately surrender to superior numbers, in some cases US troops are forced to put down rioting by either or both sides, and in some cases fanatical CSA or fanatical Black Socialist troops fight to the last cartridge.

As they advance, US troops discover forced labor camps (called concentration camps) where large numbers of Blacks (men, women and children) have been locked up. Conditions are harsh at all of the camps but in some places, notably Andersonville, they are inhumane to the extreme. The commander of the Virginia Cavalry Brigade, JEB Stuart II, is so enraged when his cavalry reaches Andersonville that he orders the camp commandant tied up and given to the prisoners so that they can carry out their own justice.

Within 3 months, South Carolina and Georgia have been secured, and Mississippi is well on the way to being secured. Fighting only continues in Florida (near Jacksonsville) and in Alabama (near Montgomery). It is in these 2 cities that the bloodiest fighting takes place and the heaviest casualties. But by Christmas the last CSA defenders have surrendered and order has been restored. The remaining states of the CSA; South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida are placed under military occupation and provesional governments are established. They are also annexed back into the US as territories. In all, some 250,000 citizens of the CSA die during the war or prior to it (include nearly 200,000 killed in civil disorder or through atrocities or in the camps). US losses are around 25,000.

Shortly after the fall of Montgomery, the Republic of Deseret petitions the US for admission as a state and is quickly accepted. With that, the US has finally been knitted back together from the division of the First War Between the States.

In Russia, the Civil War continues. The Communists clear out Loyalist forces from the northern Caucasus region, secure Baku and conquer the Ukraine. With that, all of the European Russian Empire except for the Balts and Finns has been restored. Fighting continues east of the Urals however, and the Loyalists manage to secure most of the TransSiberian Railroad.

In France, prescriptions and trials are the order of the day, and another 100,000 dissappear or are deported or officially found guilty of treason and executed. Very few (less than 1,000) are officially executed and after much effort, Leopold manages to bring about the cessation of hauling people out into the night where they then dissappear (but 10,000 meet that fate in that year). Thoses deported are sent to the Colonies.

Elsewhere peace continues, and the world finally begins to recover from the trauma of the Great War and its bloody aftermath.

1912:
In Britain, the reunification of the US (and the clear establishment of the US as a power at least equal to Britain), the damages of the war and long-running colonial and social disputes eventually break out. In India, the Congress Party, led by Nehru and Gandhi begins a massive (mostly) nonviolent campaign against British rule, while more violent factions also rise up.

In Ireland, another large uprising occurs, beginning with violent street fighting in Dublin and spreading throughout the country. Although the combined efforts of British troops and Orange Order-inspired Protestant paramilitaries manage to keep much of the country under control, there are numerous pockets of Ireland which are effectively rebel controlled.

In Great Britain itself, there is considerable labor agitation, culminating in a general strike which nearly paralyzes the city of London for two weeks before it is broken with the aid of 10,000 soldiers. An estimated three hundred people are killed in the street fighting, several thousand are injured and thousands more are arrested. This scene is repeated in other major cities in Britain, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, to similar but less spectacular effect.

British Hannover:

While there are large-scale strikes in several large Hannoveran cities, there is relatively little violence. Once the Prime Minister was voted out in a landslide, social frustration in British Hannover found a new and external source. It was felt by many in the country that it was no longer proper for a country with a population of 38 millions to be regarded as 'British' Hannover. While there were many British citizens, with great pride in their heritage, there was a recognition that it was not an Anglo-Saxon country.

Increasing emigration from France helped to rejuvenate the formerly somewhat culturally vulnerable Franco-Hannoveran community and would eventually allow them to achieve a small, but real majority in the province of Quebec. Montreal would remain a metropolitan city and one that was rapidly growing (about a million and a half), and Quebec City became the bastion of Franco-Hannoveran culture.

The increasing nationalism of the country would capture its zeitgeist in Georg LaSalle's (born of a German mother and a French father) book of 'nationalist poetry', 'Song of the North', written entirely in Hannoveran, the mixture of French, German and English structures and vocabularies that formed the common vernacular in the large cities.

In 1913, Maurice Connors (French-Irish) and Heinrich Stade Jr (the son of the former PM) collaborated in composing a standard sysem of writing for Hannoveran, but they coined a new name for the language, that they proposed should be named Canadian. They ended up creating a structure and vocabulary which represented the ethnic split of the three main peoples of the nation, that is 40/40/20, German, English and French. The latter of the two also wrote up a manifesto calling for the establishment of 'Canada' as an independent republic combining Old and New World values, entitled Her Majesty, The Canadian Nation, which in the next five years, sold two million copies.

Meanwhile, British Hannover, not explicitly mentioned in the Madrid accords, decided to maintain their fleet at approximately 40% of the American fleet. While their army was quite tiny (60,000) by the standards of major powers, they did not need a large armed force (no colonies really) and it was felt that the fleet would be a greater and more useful means of security and prestige.

1913
William Howard Taft becomes President of the United States (as Teddy, ill, decides not to run again, unwilling to take on a 3rd Full Term). The United States now consists of all of the territory it had prior to 1861 (now organized into 42 states plus Montana, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida Territories) as well as the territories of Oceania (Marshal, Gilbert, Caroline, Marianas Islands), the Hawaiian Islands, Alaska, American Samoa, and the American Virgin Islands. In addition, the US has the Commonwealths of Panama, Honduras, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Guatemala, Nicuaruga, Costa Rica and the Philippines which are on a 20 year plan for independence. (which means the Caribbean Commonwealths are up for independence in 1920).

In the 5 territories that were formerly part of the CSA, the US Army is on occupation duty, ensuring that the peace is kept between Blacks and Whites and that a stable civilian government can be formed.

Elsewhere, the British Empire is facing problems in India and Ireland, and when the mutual defense treaty between the UK and US is up for renewal, it is quietly allowed to lapse as political pressure in Congress prevents renewel. However, the US does quietly inform British Hannover that it will honor its commitment with them.

In China, the last vestiges of Imperial China collapse and the Nationalist Goverment is essentially another warlord at this point, although it does control Beijing and Nanking, and large areas of land around those two centers.
In Russia, the young Czarvitch passes away from illness, and Prince Mikail is remains protector, this time of the Princess Anastasia. However, at this point he actually rules only central and eastern Siberia, and his loyal troops are hardpressed to hold that. Realizing that the situation is hopeless, he and his government persuade local people to back an independent Siberia and that occurs in late 1913, totally surprising the Communists. Hardpressed to feed and manage what they have conquered, Lenin and Mikail reach an agreement and an armistice is signed. In spite of the loss of Siberia east of the river Ob, the Soviet Union is still a huge country with a lot of potential. Siberia is also one of the biggest countries in the world, but with a population of just 20 million, is a shadow compared to the Soviet Union (which decides it can take care of Siberia later).

Kingdom of Siberia
(Mikail is named King) major cities: Omsk, Novosibirisk, Irkutsk (capital), Vladivostok population 20 million (includes nearly 3 million Eskimos and tribesmen and a large number of refugees from Russia).

1914 - 1920
For the most part, peace in the world (except for troubles in the British Empire) as most the world is weary of conflict (for now). Much to the astonishment of most of Europe, the US does grant independence on schedule to the Commonwealths of Puerto Rico, Cuba, Panama and the other Central American nations. All retain close ties to the United States however and the US continues to maintain bases in the area, especially in the Canal Zone. By 1920 the remaining territories in the US are also admitted (or readmitted) into the Union, bringing the US to 48 States. With the end of many of its commitments, the US Army shrinks massively in size to a mere 90,000 men (including the new Air Corps), and the Marines shrink down to 25,000 men. The Navy is also reduced in size overall, although a large number of new ships are built to replace the aging pre Great War fleet.

Increasingly the US becomes Isolationist, as it, along with British Hannover, are fed up with Europe and its wars, and both feel morally superior to the more Imperialistic European Nations in any case. Close ties are extended to Australia however, as the US feels the Australians are natural partners in the Pacific (and the Australians are well aware that the US keeps a lot bigger fleet in the US than the British). Increasingly the US Navy begins to consider Japan as the next likely enemy, along with Germany and even (however remotely) the Royal Navy.

Aircraft become increasingly capable and by 1920 are capable of flying up to a few hundred miles and reaching speeds approaching 200 MPH. Although Zeppelins and other airships can carry more cargo and passengers, they are slower and more vulnerable to weather. The US leads the way in aircraft development (especially engines) while the Germans lead the way in airship development. In automobiles, the US and Germany are the leaders here as well, with the British a distant third. Telephones become increasingly common, and the wireless telegraph makes way to the radio, now capable of voice transmission. The motion picture becomes a major industry as well, and a little town near Los Angeles known as Hollywood begins to become famous.

Germany:

Relative social peace reigns in the Fatherland and lingering colonial disputes are being reduced considerably. In the air of relative peace in the world as a whole, the German army is reduced from about a million to around 800,000 in order to save expenditure, and the officer corps is trimmed accordingly. While Germany has mobilization plans in order to rapidly form an army of five million if needed, the actual odds of a preemptive attack on German territory is considered to be slim.

Progressive German military officers and military theorists are beginning to speak about the need to motorize warfare, particularly as the most likely battlefield in the future would be Soviet Poland, a great open plain. Daimler-Benz and Porsche are both being encouraged to develop a landship of some sort to conform with this desire. It is hoped that, if and when developed, these mobile platforms will cooperate with well-trained German stormtroopers and aerial support to decisively smash enemy forces.

With the use of gas banned (not particularly opposed by most Germans, most generals regarded it as a desperate one-time weapon and are perfectly eager to see the noxious stuff banned now that it served its purpose), it is felt that Germany needs a new strategic edge against any foe. By far, the most likely enemy is felt to be the Soviet Union, although it is not considered impossible that the French may attack (although it would be the height of stupidity, the Germans do have considerable fortifications in Alsace-Lorraine and Flanders, not to mention decisive military, economic and demographic superiority).

The Germans are also investing some time in improving relations with the North American nations, but mostly along business lines. Otherwise, it is largely concerned with the maintenence of its huge territories and de facto satellite control of much of the rest of Europe.

Britain:
With the decisive and somewhat bloody defeat of the left-wing and Irish nationalists in the United Kingdom, the British turn to a large-scale military and political campaign in India, restoring order through the selective use of jailings, beatings and the odd massacre. Meanwhile, the apartheid government of South Africa offers asylum to any former CSA citizens who do not wish to live in the United States. Although relatively few actually journey there, they become a politically influential group.

Australia and New Zealand are beginning to chafe somewhat under an increasingly heavy British hand. Following the lead of British Hannover, republican movements begin to emerge in those two countries. However, as of yet, they are both relatively small and do not have the same mass appeal as in British Hannover. (nor the highly developed, reasonably populous state to build upon)

British Hannover:

The republican movement in British Hannover becomes more and more popular , fuelled by the arrival of more and more ethnic groups that do not identify with the British crown. From British radicals to Volga Germans (who essentially transplant themselves en masse in British Hannover if at all possible), there is an increasing disaffinity for the Crown.

Frederick Asquith, who was not in fact a republican, writes a highly influential book that is slammed by many intellectuals but is read by a mass audience. Commonwealth, as it is entitled, describes the eventual abolishment of the British Empire as an archaic institution and the establishment of the Commonwealth, a voluntary union of the former territories of the British Empire. It is his belief that the independent nations of Canada (as it should be named), Great Britain, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and India should be charged with the advancement of the other colonies and their accession as full Commonwealth members within twenty-five years or less.

bump

1921 - 1925
The Chinese Nationalist government gradually assumes control of much of Manchuria, and most of China itself over the 5 year period. A communist uprising breaks out in several Chinese cities and is brutally crushed. Fighting also occurs in Shanghai, and the British break up an attempt uprising in Hong Kong. Mao Tse Tung becomes a more important figure in the Communist Chinese party and moves the bulk of the survivors into the country side.

In the Soviet Union, Lenin begins the groundwork for a massive industralization project, determined to bring the Soviet Union into the ranks of the major industrial powers. Many dissidents are expelled into Siberia, a convienient dumping ground and the population of that country grows to nearly 24 million. Siberia remains barely industralized, but some US and British Hannover investment enables it to develop some industries, including a shipbuilding industry in Vladivostok.

In France, the government remains an authoretarian state, with fascist leanings, and the King is little more than a puppet. Emigration continues to be high as well, especially from Jews, Protestants and those with Leftist leanings. In Italy, the state becomes a Fascist state as well as Mussolini takes power.

In the US, race relations in the South continue to be difficult, but Federal authorities ensure that violence does not occur. Although Blacks have de jure rights, in many places they still lack de facto rights. But slow progress is occuring and for the first time the Blacks are allowed to attend schools. Most of the southern states build seperate schools for them, but in many rural areas were Blacks are the majority, limited intergration occurs.

Technology continues to advance. The first flights across the Atlantic and Pacific occur, first with Airships (the Germans leading the way) and then with aircraft. The first passenger flights from Berlin to New Jersey, and from Berlin to Montreal occur during this period (by German Lufthansa flying Zeppelins).

This is also the golden age of passenger liners, as the British, Germans, French and the Americans build bigger and bigger passenger liners. The loss of the Titantic in 1912 continues to be a warning for all however, and the US, British Hannover and Britain continue to maintain the International Ice Patrol.

Stock markets boom in the US, Britian and British Hannover, as well as Germany. Warnings by analyists that this is a dangerously unstable boom are ignored. The Republicans (Harding followed by Coolidge) are in power in the US and a pro business environment continues.

In Japan a massive earthquake destroys much of Tokyo, killing nearly 120,000 people in the resulting fire.

German authorities, from right and centrist political parties to the Kaiser himself are becoming increasingly concerned about the establishment of the Soviet Union, which they fear may become a destabilizing force especially in their main Central European interest. Already, hawk parties are beginning to urge that Germany rouse itself to smash the Bolshevik power before it is too late.

Kaiser Friedrich Wilhelm III, who has the authority to present a declaration of war (although it must be approved by the Reichstag) refrains from committing himself to another violent conflict. However, relations with the Soviet state are becoming rather chillier. As well as ideological reasons, it is thought that the German General Staff desire a full demonstration of their various new weapons and tactical ideas. Field Marshal Ludendorff, in particular, is a rabid advocate of a crusade to rid the world of Bolshevism.

bump

OOC: I'd like to get in on this, if possible. I'd like to play Austria, if possible.

OOC: I'd like to get in on this, if possible. I'd like to play Austria, if possible.

Austria is kaput...(prior to Great War).. I will be putting together a complete history of the alternate history involved (try saying that three times fast) over the next few days.

bump

OOC> This is just a beginner's outline and provides that Germany, a.) doesn't get into any major mischief and b.) adheres to the Washington treaty. Expect some of the figures to go up otherwise.

National Profile:
Name of Country: Deutscher Reich (German Empire)
Head of State: Kaiser Friedrich Wilhelm III
Head of Government: Chancellor Albert Wallenstein
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Region: Western/Central Europe

Population of Country: 106,500,000
Capital: Berlin (3,800,000)
Largest Cities: Berlin, Vienna, Hamburg, Munich, Prague
Official Language: German (Czech, Dutch and Polish widely spoken)
Ethnicity of Country: 70% German, 13% Dutch/Flemish, 7% Czech, 4% Polish, 3% Danish, 3% Other
Religion of Country: 49% Protestant, 46% Catholic, 2% Jewish, 3% Other

Culture of Country:

Stability of Country:

Economy of Country:

Land Military of Country: Approximately 80 divisions are currently in place in Germany itself, although all of them are somewhat understrength (about 10,000) making about an 800,000-man army. This number can triple in days and the German military machine is capable of sustaining

Navy of Country:
High Seas Fleet: 9 battleships, 1 battlecruiser, 8 heavy cruisers, 12 light cruisers, 12 desron, 5 subron
Adriatic Fleet: 1 battleship, 1 battlecruiser, 3 heavy cruisers, 5 light cruisers, 5 desron, 4 subron
East Africa Patrol: 2 light cruisers
West Africa Patrol: 2 light cruisers
East Indies Fleet: 1 battlecruiser, 4 light cruisers, 2 desrons

Colonies:
German Cameroons: (Cameroon)
Population: 3.5 million
Resources: lumber, cotton, cocoa (oil is there, but it’s probably unexplored at this time)
Colonial Army: 1 coastal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

German Congo: (Both Congos)
Population: 21.1 million
Resources: Copper, diamonds, rubber
Colonial Army: 1 coastal defence battalion, 5 colonial brigades
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

German East Africa: (Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi)
Population: 10 million
Resources: cotton, coffee, tea, spices (cloves especially)
Colonial Army: 1 coastal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

German East Indies: (Indonesia)
Population: 65 million
Resources: Oil, rubber, tin, spices
Colonial Army: 3 coastal defence brigades, 3 regular divisions, 6 colonial divisions
Colonial Fleet: (see above)

German Southeast Africa: (Mozambique and Malawi)
Population: 5 million
Resources: Tea, aluminum, cotton
Colonial Army: 1 coastal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

German Southwest Africa: (Namibia)
Population: 500,000 (about 100,000 or so German settlers)
Resources:
Colonial Army: 1 costal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

German West Africa: (Modern Togo and Benin)
Population: 3.0 million
Resources: Cotton, coffee, cocoa
Colonial Army: 1 coastal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades.
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

Formerly known as British Hannover. For game newbies, the posit here was that this land was originally much more heavily settled by British and German immigrants, which eventually melded into one group.

National Profile:
Name of Country: The Dominion of Canada
Head of State: Governor General Heinrich Stade, Jr. (the Canadian government refuses to recognize a monarch who supports fascism)
Head of Government: PM William Mackenzie-King
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy (with no monarch)
Region: North America

Population of Country: 45,100,000
Capital: Ottawa (1,150,000)
Largest Cities: Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ottawa
Official Language: Canadian*, English, French
Ethnicity of Country: 54% Canadian*, 19% Quebecois, 13% British, 14% Other
Religion of Country: 53% Protestant, 42% Catholic, 2% Jewish, 3% Other

Culture of Country:

Stability of Country:

Economy of Country:

Land Military of Country: The Royal Canadian Army is composed of five divisions, which are somewhat understrength. Current standing army is about 50,000 persons. The Royal Canadian Air Force is about 20,000 strong and the Royal Canadian Marines have about 10,000 personnel.

Navy of Country:
Atlantic Fleet: 4 battleships, 1 battlecruiser, 3 light cruisers, 5 desron, 1 subron
Pacific Fleet: 2 battleships, 1 battlecruiser, 2 light cruisers, 3 desron, 1 subron
Patrol Fleet: 2 light cruisers, 1 desron

Colonies:
Greenland:
Population: 35,000
Resources: Fish, copper, zinc
Colonial Army: 2 regiments
Colonial Fleet: 1 patron

* Canadian refers to the Canadian ethnic group, composed of a long-standing mixture of British and German cultures in a North American setting and the language they speak, which has only recently been formally codified. About 80% of the population can understand the language.

the big navies...

by 1932 the Royal and US Navies are still the two most powerful navies in the world. Both have scrapped nearly all of their pre and Great War period ships, and have completely shifted over to oil burning ships. Both navies are experimenting extensively with carriers for scouting purposes, as well as torpedo bombers. The US Navy has also built a few airships, although only 3 remain in service (due to crashes) and 2 of the American airships can actually carry a small number of planes.

Royal Navy 1932
Home fleet
12 Battleships
Nelson, Rodney (16 inch guns, 21 knots), Royal Oak, Royal Sovereign, Ramilies, Revenge, Resolution ( 15 inch guns, 21 knots), Iron Duke, Benbow, Emperor of India, Marlborough, (13.5 inch guns, 21 knots)
3 Battlecruisers
Renown, Repulse, Hood (15 inch guns, 32 knots)
3 Carriers
Furious, Glorious, Courageous, (converted battlecruisers, 50 aircraft, 30 knots)
14 Heavy cruisers
Kent, Berwick, Suffolk, Cornwall, Cumberland, Cumberland, Devonshire, London, Sussex, Shropshire, Norfolk, Dorsetshire, York, Exeter, (8 inch guns, 32 knots)
15 Light cruisers
Cambrian, Castor, Canterbury, Constance, Centaur, Concord, Caledon, Calypso, Caradoc, Cassandra, Cardiff, Coventry, Curacao, Curlew, Ceres, (6 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 28 knots)
10 Anti aircraft Cruisers Diomede, Dragon, Dunedin, Durban, Emerald, Enterprise, Effingham, Frobisher, Hawkins, Raleigh (4 inch guns, 30 knots)
36 Destroyers (new, 4.7 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 36 knots)
54 Destroyers (older, 4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
3 submarine squadrons

Mediterranean Fleet
5 battleships
Warspite, Queen Elizabeth, Malaya, Barham, Valiant, (15 inch guns, 24 knots)
2 carriers
Hermes, Eagle (purpose built, 24 knots, 30 aircraft)
5 Light cruisers
Leander, Achilles, Neptune, Orion, Ajax (6 inch guns, 32 knots)
15 Destroyers (older, 4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
2 submarine squadrons

Indian Ocean Squadron
2 Carriers
Vindictive, Argus, (converted light cruisers, 20 aircraft, 30 knots)
5 Light cruisers
Cairo, Calcutta, Capetown, Carlisle, Colombo, (6 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)

South Atlantic Squadron
5 Light cruisers
Danae, Dauntless, Delhi, Dispatch, Diomede, (6 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)

Royal Australian Navy
2 heavy cruisers
Australia, Canberra, (8 inch guns, 32 knots)
3 light cruisers
Perth, Sydney, Hobart (6 inch guns, 32 knots)
10 Destroyers (older, 4 inch guns, 32 knots)
1 submarine squadron

Royal Marines
10 battalions of the Royal Marine Light Infantry, 10 battalions of the Royal Marine Artillery


US Navy 1932
Battlefleet
15 Battleships Arkansas (12 inch guns, 20 knots), New York, Texas, Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Tennessee, New Mexico, Idaho, California (14 inch guns, 21 knots), Mississippi, Colorado, Maryland, West Virginia, (16 inch guns, 22 knots)

Scouting Fleet
5 Battle cruisers
Constellation, Constitution, Congress, Alaska, Hawaii, (12 inch guns, 30 knots),
4 Heavy cruisers
Northhampton, Chicago, Portland, Louisville (8 inch guns, 30 knots),
5 Carriers
Ranger, Intrepid, Lexington, Independence, Saratoga,(converted battlecruisers, 32 knots, 100 aircraft),
8 Light cruisers
Omaha, Detroit, Trenton, Concord, Marblehead, Olympia, Raleigh, Richmond (6 inch guns, 32 knots)

Escort Fleet
16 light cruisers Chester, Santa Fe, Salem, Buffalo, Tulsa, Galveston, Cheyenne, Dayton, San Antonio, Honolulu, Dayton, San Antonio, Houston, Augusta, San Diego, San Francisco (5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 28 knots)
80 Destroyers 4 stack variety (4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)
20 Destroyers newer (5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots)
CV (training) Langley (converted collier, 40 aircraft, 20 knots)

30 squadrons carrier aircraft, 12 seaplane squadrons, airships Macon, Akron, Los Angeles, plus 20 Blimps

plus gunboat force
20 various gunboats (China, Philippines, Panama)

plus submarine force 8 submarine squadrons

US Marine Corps (1909 – 1932)
4th Marine Regiment (Philippines)
1st Marine Division (1st, 3rd, 7th Marines) Camp Pendleton
2nd Marine Division (2nd, 6th, 8th Marines) Camp Lejune
5th Marine Regiment (Panama)
9th Marine Regiment (Quantico)
plus 6 carrier squadrons

The US Navy mantains fleets in the Philippines (Asiatic fleet, also handles China squadron), Pacific (at San Diego and Pearl Harbor and Bremerton), and the Atlantic (Norfolk, New York, and Panama). The battlefleet and escort fleet are primarily in the Atlantic and Caribbean (with a few cruisers in the Philippines) while the Scouting Fleet is based on the West Coast for the most part or in Hawaii.

the other modern navies
German Imperial Navy
High Seas Fleet: 8 battleships (Bayern, Baden, Wurtenburg with 15 inch guns, 21 knots, Deutschland, Preussen, Rheinland, Tirpitz, Graf Spee 15 inch guns, 24 knots) 2 battlecruisers (Bismark, Braushistch,15 inch guns, 30 knots) , 8 heavy cruisers (Scharnhorst, Gneisnau, Moltke, Clausewitz, Manstein, Hindenburg, Seydlitz, Frederick de Grosse, 8 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots) 12 light cruisers (Emden, Dresden, Leipzig, Hamburg, Kiel, Split, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Antwerpen, Wein, Munchen, 6 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots) 8 desron (40 destroyers with 4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots), 2 subron (20 submarines)
Adriatic Fleet: 2 battleships (Prinz Eugen, Sachen, 15 inch guns, 21 knots) , 3 heavy cruisers (Blucher, Schwarzenberg, Archduke Charles, 8 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots), 5 light cruisers (Zenta, Aspern, Prague), 2 desron (10 new destroyers, 5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 40 knots), 1 subron (10 submarines)

German East Indies Squadron: BC Charlemagne, Seigfried (Bismark class), CA Tromp, De Ruyter (Scharnhorst class), CL Sumatra, Java (Emden class), 2 Desrons (modern)


Imperial Japanese Navy
8 Battleships Fuso, Yamashiro, Hyuga, Ise (14 inch guns, 24 knots), Nagato, Mutsu Kaga, Tosa, (16 inch guns, 24 knots)
6 Battlecruisers: Haruna, Kirishima, Kongo, Haruna, Amagi, Fuji, (14 inch guns, 28 knots)
5 Carriers: Akagi (converted battlecruiser, 80 aircraft, 28 knots), Hosho (purpose built, 26 aircraft, 24 knots), Ryujo (purpose built, 38 aircraft, 29 knots), Soryu, Hiryu (purpose built, 73 aircraft, 34 knots)
12 Heavy cruisers: Furataka, Kako, Aoba, Kinugasa, Myoko, Nachi, Ashigara, Haguro, Takao, Maya, Atago, Chokai, (8 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
9 Light cruisers Nagara, Izuzu, Yura, Natori, Kinu, Abukuma, Sendai, Jintsu, Naka (5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 34 knots)
5 Torpedo cruisers Kitakami, Oi, Kiso, Tama, Kuma, (4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots)
7 Desrons (35 old destroyers, 4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
12 Desrons (60 newer destroyers, 5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots)
4 subrons (40 coastal submarines)
2 subrons (20 fleet submarines)
Special Naval Landing Force and Naval Base Force troops (about 20,000)
in addition to carrier aircraft has 10 seaplane squadrons, 10 landbased torpedo plane squadrons,

Regia Marina (Italians)
6 Battleships Dante Aligheiri, Conte di Cavour, Guilo Cesare, Leonardo da Vinci, Andrea Doria, Duilio, (12 inch guns, 26 knots)
8 heavy cruisers San Giorgio, Trento, Trieste, Fiume, Gorizia, Pola, Zara, Bolzano, (8 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
light cruisers Barbiano, Guissano, Colleoni, Bande Nere, (6 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots)
7 Desrons (35 old destroyers, 4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
7 Desrons (35 newer destroyers, 5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots)
3 Subrons (30 coastal submarines)
San Marino Marine Regiment (4 battalions light infantry)
Malta Fortress (20,000 coast artillery troops)
no aircraft assigned to navy other than spotter planes

French Navy
7 Battleships Courbet, France, Jean Bart, Paris, Bretagne, Lorraine, Provence (13.5 inch guns, 22 knots)
Heavy cruisers Suffren, Colbert, Pluton, Dupleix, Massina, Jeanne d’Arc, Algerie, (8 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)
Light cruisers Duguay Trouin, Picquet, Primaguet, Duquesne, Tourville (6 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 32 knots)
5 Desron (25 old destroyers, 4 inch guns, 32 knots)
5 Desron (25 new destroyers, 5 inch guns, 36 knots)
CV Bearn (converted battleships, 50 aircraft, 21 knots)
3 subrons (30 coast defense submarines)
1 subron (10 fleet submarines)
plus 8 seaplane squadrons, 20 Blimps,

Soviet Navy
Baltic Fleet
Battleships Gangut, Paris Commune, Marat, Poltava (12 inch guns, 21 knots)
Heavy cruisers Kirov, Voroshilov, (8 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)
Light cruisers Nakhimov, Lazarev (5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)
4 Desrons (20 old destroyers, 4 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 30 knots)
4 subrons (40 coastal submarines)
Black Sea Fleet
Battleships Borodino, Kiev (12 inch guns, 22 knots)
Light cruisers Amurski, Spiridov, Greig, (5 inch guns, 30 knots)
2 Desrons (10 old destroyers)
2 Desrons (10 new destroyers with 5 inch guns, torpedo tubes, 35 knots)
3 subrons (30 coastal submarines)

1926- 1932
The over inflated US stock market collapses on Black Tuesday, in February 1926 setting the stage for what would be called the Great Depression. Within a couple of years, the US economy shrinks by nearly 30%, with nearly 40% of industry idle and massive unemployment, bank failures and other problems develop. This triggers poor economic decisions by a number of nations and trade barriers become more and more restrictive, which feeds the disaster instead of remedying it. It isn’t until the election of the governor of New York, Franklin Delano Roosevelt that hope begins to return in the US and a series of New Deal measures are undertaken. The Philippines chooses to remain a US Commonwealth, instead of pursuing independence so that it remains immune to the American trade barriers. With some effort, Roosevelt manages to get Latin America immune as well, preventing disaster to those economies (although hardships remain).

However, restrictions on immigration are put into place in the US, ending the flood of emigrants from Europe (reducing it to a trickle).

Meanwhile, the Japanese, French and Italian economies are hard hit, and hard liners take power in both Japan and Italy. Fascism and Militarism once again is on the march. In Japan a group of Army officers essentially manage to gain control of the government and push for the idea of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. The German East Indies, the Philippines, French Indochina, Manchuria, and northern China are viewed as natural elements of such a sphere. The Anglo-Japanese military alliance is renewed, much to the disappointment of the Australians and Americans.

Although both have similar governments, the French and Italians continue to glare at one another as France wants the return of Corsica, and Italy eyes Algeria covetously. Both France and Italy begin modernizing their army and begin building tanks and aircraft in significant numbers.

Aircraft continue to become more effective. Lindberg makes the first nonstop flight across the Atlantic by aircraft (instead of Zeppelin). The Americans, British, Japanese and French experiment with aircraft carriers, with the first three nations building a number of them. Broadcast radio becomes common, as do movies and the first talking motion pictures hits the screens. The British begin experimenting with the idea of radar, although it is still years away from successful development. Similar experiments with sonar are begin conducted by the Americans and British as well.

Stalin takes power in the Soviet Union and ruthlessly takes control of the Soviet Party apparatus. Forced industrialization and collectivization result in millions of people disappearing, and nearly a million people are expelled into Monarchist Siberia (which can’t really fit them into the economy very well).

Oh, New Shiron, there's some ships that are included in the colonial section too. Four cruisers, two at Walvis Bay and two at Zanzibar for patrol purposes, some patrons (not important really) and a larger fleet in the German East Indies, stationed at Batavia (?). Also, did I get it basically okay?

Warship values (how powerful are these fleets really?)

Firepower/defense strength/range (in sea zones)/speed/air attack value (carriers only)

Heavy cruisers 2/1/5/6
German heavy cruisers 2/2/4/6
Japanese heavy cruiser 3/1/5/6 (better torpedoes)
Light cruisers 1/1/5/7 (6 inch gun type)
Old Light cruisers and AA cruisers 1/0/4/6 (5 inch gun type)
Japanese torpedo cruisers 2/0/3/8
Old destroyers (Desron) 1/1/3/7 special rule, attack strength is ASW attack as well

New destroyers (Desron) 2/2/4/8 special rule, as per old Destroyers

Coastal subron 1/0/1/3 special rule, can only be attacked if they attack and only by 1 Desron

Fleet subron 1/0/4/3 special rule, as per coastal submarines

Special rule, American, British, Canadian and Japanese destroyers have +2 range because they can refuel at sea

Capital ships
British Navy
BC Hood 5/4/4/6
BC Renown, Repulse 4/3/4/6
BB Nelson, Rodney 6/5/3/3
BB Warspite, Queen Elizabeth, Malaya, Barham, Valiant 5/4/4/4
BB Resolution, Royal Soveriegn, Ramilies, Revenge, Resolution 5/4/3/3
BB Iron Duke, Benbow, Emperor of India, Marlborough 4/3/3/3
CV Couragous, Furious, Glorious 0/1/4/6/3
CV Hermes, Eagle 0/1/3/4/2
CV Vindictive, Argus 0/1/4/5/1

US Navy
BB Arkansas 3/3/4/3
BB Texas, New York 4/4/4/3
BB Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Arizona 4/4/5/3
BB Tennessee, New Mexico, Idaho, California, 4/5/5/3
BB Mississippi, Colorado, Maryland, West Virginia 6/5/5/3
BC Constellation, Constitution, Congress, Alaska, Hawaii 3/4/5/6
CV Lexington, Saratoga, Independence, Intrepid, Ranger 0/3/5/7/5

German Navy
BB Bayern, Baden, Sachen, Wurtenburg, Prinz Eugen 5/6/3/3
BB Deutchland, Preussen, Rheinland, Tirpitz, Graf Spee, 5/7/3/4
BC Bismark, Brauschistch 5/5/4/6

Japanese Navy
BB Fuso, Yamashiro, Hyuga, Ise 4/4/4/4
BB Mutsu, Nagato, Kaga, Tosa 6/5/4/4
BC Kirishima, Kongo, Haruna, Amagi, Hiei, Fuji 4/3/4/6
CV Akagi, Soryu, Hiryu 0/2/4/6/4
CV Ryuju 0/1/4/5/3
CV Shoho 0/1/4/4/2

French Navy
BB Courbet, France, Jean Bart, Paris, Bretagne 3/3/4/3
BB Lorraine, Provence 4/4/4/3
CV Bearn 0/3/4/3/3

Italian Navy
BB Aligheiri, Cavour, Cesare, da Vinci, Andrea Dorio, Duilio 3/4/4/5

Soviet Navy
BB Gangut, Paris Commune, Marat, Poltava, Borodino, Kiev 3/4/2/3

a sea zone is roughly 300 miles across and range is based on actual World War I and II typical mission radius

landbased aircraft are essentially abstracted and are essentially just search planes (with some ASW value, act as a destroyer squadron in the sea zone their base is adjacent to), but the Japanese have dedicated land based anti ship squadrons (each squadron worth 1 air attack).

Oh, New Shiron, there's some ships that are included in the colonial section too. Four cruisers, two at Walvis Bay and two at Zanzibar for patrol purposes, some patrons (not important really) and a larger fleet in the German East Indies, stationed at Batavia (?). Also, did I get it basically okay?

I would suggest the following:
2 CL (Danzig, Nurnberg) for East Africa, and 2 CL (Aachan, Ausberg) for West Africa

Germans would probably rotate their 2 Battlecruisers to have one on station in the German East Indies, plus 4 CL (Tromp, De Ruyter, Java, Sumatra, Dutch designs and named as a sop to the Dutch), plus 2 Desrons (new ones) taken. German fleet is very weak in destroyers, you need at least 30 more destroyers for the Atlantic, and about 20 more for the Med. Probably need more subs as well, I would suggest about 40 more (fleet type).

This would give the Germans 10 more Desrons and 4 more Subrons.

At this point, patrol and gunboats are completely irrelevent and helpless against any real warship.

OOC> If you're on and read this, maybe we could have a quick chat on MSN? Not too long if you see this right away, though, because I've some work to do.

I guess it makes just as much sense as anything else simply to add those extra ships onto the big list you have of all of the navies. But I'll put it on my individual one too.

Okay ... if there's not any permanent capital ships deployed in the East Indies (as you seem to be suggesting), that leaves 2 capital ships that are still allowed to Germany under the Washington Treaty. Unless a battlecruiser could be stationed permanently in the East Indies, maybe another battlecruiser or battleship each for the bigger fleets (ie, Atlantic and Adriatic ships)

OOC> If you're on and read this, maybe we could have a quick chat on MSN? Not too long if you see this right away, though, because I've some work to do.

I guess it makes just as much sense as anything else simply to add those extra ships onto the big list you have of all of the navies. But I'll put it on my individual one too.

Okay ... if there's not any permanent capital ships deployed in the East Indies (as you seem to be suggesting), that leaves 2 capital ships that are still allowed to Germany under the Washington Treaty. Unless a battlecruiser could be stationed permanently in the East Indies, maybe another battlecruiser or battleship each for the bigger fleets (ie, Atlantic and Adriatic ships)

I will assume 2 BC, 2 CA, 2 CL for Dutch East Indies, plus 2 Desron, plus the CL for the African stations, and the extra destroyers and submarines recommended ..... will adjust as later. Not at home at the moment, and probably won't be online tonight. perhaps tomorrow around 7 PM Pacific

Sounds good.

I think that a Spanish Civil War could be a good leadup to the actual hostilities. That is, the Nationalists attempting a coup and the Republicans fighting back. This might be a way for the USSR and Germany to remove some of the chill on their relations, as both sides are likely to support the Popular Front government, the Germans having no desire to see the fascists gain any more support in Europe.

Although it's hard to say exactly, since the direct level of threat that the USSR is under is quite small, since the portion which borders Japanese territory is in the Kingdom of Siberia.

bump

1930:
The mostly right-wing British Parliament, facing a crushing national depression and ongoing colonial troubles, is pressured by the new King, Edward VII into instituting emergency powers and accepting de facto direct monarchical rule. While not fascist in ideology, per se, the result is an increasingly oppressive and authoritarian government.

In 1931, Britain totally rejects the Washington treaty and begins to greatly expand its naval power, aiming to regain its sole naval dominance that it lost. The German government warns Britain that if it continues on its policy of naval rearmament, Germany will have to remove its own naval restrictions and increase its land-based army. This is of course, not entirely contrary to the hope that a little rearmament might inject some life in the industrial economy.

The Dominions of Canada, New Zealand and Australia protest this action. Political dissent in South Africa is mitigated by the unabashed support that is given their apartheid policies. In late 1931, Canada announces that it does not recognize the monarchy of Edward VII, although it does not formally renounce its ties to Britain. The message is that it believes the government is not the legitimate voice of the British people.

Political purges in Britain shatter the Labour Party and more radical thinkers, and there is a brief spurt of emigration from Britain of about 250,000 intellectuals, political activists and others, about half of whom end up in Canada. Most of the other fascist governments are fairly well-established and the refugees that are left are mostly settled in Germany or North America.

Canada suffers from the Depression, as does almost every other nation. However, New Deal-type legislation is rapidly introduced by the Canadian government. While the actual effectiveness of this legislation in curbing the Depression is rather limited, it does have a substantial morale-boosting effect on Canadians (and Americans to the south).

In Germany, the risk of a facist takeover is minimalized in the main by an adapted New Deal-like programme and the personal popularity of the Kaiser, who comes down somewhat harshly on extremists on both the left and right more or less impartially. The Kaiser also strenuously attempts to ensure that the mainstream political parties, such as the Social Democrats, National Liberals and Conservatives manage to retain the allegiance of the population.

Nationalist aspirations of the Flemish, Dutch, Danes and others are kept largely in check (to the level of mere grumblings) by the combination of local autonomy (given in varying degrees), pragmatic progressivism and the simple fact that Germany is a much better place to live than almost anywhere else in Europe. The elites of those countries have, for the most part, come to a mutually beneficial arrangement with the German central authority. Devastated areas in Flanders especially are also being rebuilt with German money.

bump

bump!

Meanwhile, the most infamous person in our real historical twentieth century, Adolf Hitler is barely managing to keep a small Viennese coffeeshop open in the poor economic climate. His art career a failure for the most part (although he has managed to get a few of his better paintings on postcards) he instead caters to a small clique of disillusioned right-wing lower-middle class types. While many of his clients notice he has a certain flair for oratory, most Viennese and other Germans would consider his views to be laughably extremist.