NationStates Jolt Archive


Rommel class Battleship Released For Sale

The Macabees
31-01-2005, 02:32
As a test to see the public demand for shipping ---

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Refits not included in description include:

MDT-1 SODAR
Metal Casings and other defenses for EMP hardening


Rommel Class Battleship (3rd Refit)
Norwegian Interactive (The Macabees)
Keff (The Macabees)

Armor: The Rommel has a 25" steel coating of armor to protects its trimaran hull, and it is divided into compartments to cut flooding. Moreover, the Rommel uses a thin layer (20 millimeters) of MEXAS underneath the primary steel armor for additional protection, although MEXAS is not a good defense against the advent of KE rounds - however, for all other purposes and utilities the 20 mms of MEXAS gives it an RHA armored rating of 3,000mms alone just for the MEXAS. The massproducing of MEXAS makes it increasingly cheaper, especially if the Rommel is vastly exported.

It is important to note that the Rommel is a trimaran ship, which makes it heavy, but safe.

The 2nd refit of the Rommel also increased EMP hardening by the traditional means, although, of course, there's no immunity.

Propulsion: The Rommel class Battleship has two Valhalla nuclear reactors, allowing the system to be propelled at a very fast velocity of 39 knots, although this speed is rarely used in war (a task force can only go as fast as its slowest ship). The Valhalla nuclear reactors incorporate Baldur meltdown technology. The Baldur meltdown inhibitor uses sensors placed selectively inside the hull, close to the room of the nuclear reactors, to sense internal breaches, either by water pressure, or enemy pressure (missiles and other projectiles). Consequently, in case of a breech the Baldur is able to automatically shut down the two Valhalla nuclear reactors as quickly as possible, thus avoiding a catastrophic nuclear reaction.

The two Valhalla nuclear reactors use six screws to push the Rommel at the velocity wanted. Each screw has six blades, and are of medium size, however, larger than most of the screws used by the Ohio class Battleships. However, in order to decrease cavitation the Rommel has two MACCAVAB (MACabee CAVitation Absorbing) devices, which absorb the popping noises that bubbles make around the hull and the screws (known as cavitation). This technology was first begun by the United States Navy, but since then enhanced and improved by the Macabee Imperial Naval Engineering Corp under the pay of Valhalla Naval National, the sole naval production provider for the Macabee Navy. This makes the battleships much more quiet when under operations, although the battleships are still making noise.

Aircraft: Each Rommel class Battleship has five helipads, under use by five Sea Serpent ASW (Anti-submarine warfare) helicopters. However, the Sea Serpents are exchanged with the custom Sea King IIs when sold abroad, but nations can always scrap the Sea Kings and provide their own ASW choppers. The Sea Serpents can be bought with the battleship; however, this adds an extra ten million to the price tag due to the price of the choppers, as well as just pure wage, rent, and interest.

Armaments:
Praetorian V SAM System: The Praetorian V is a massive improvement over the Praetorian IV system, which was basically copied off the Bisonic S-500 SAM system. The Praetorian V should provide better accuracy, as well as better quality, to the consumers of this product. Using a twenty rocket launch system, four rows of five missiles, the Praetorian V SAM system can provide massive fire support in case of massive bomber, or missile raids, allowing the Rommels to put up a quality defense against belligerents, and ensuring survival on the deadly waters. Each Praetorian V missile can be interchanged by another SAM, assuming that the chosen SAM is smaller, or the same size. The Praetorian V is rather small, and uses either a conventional engine to engage sea-skimmers, or a scramjet engine to seek and destroy conventional high flying missiles, or aircraft.

The Praetorian V SAM system incorporates the MLT-1 LIDAR system onboard each Rommel class Battleship, which as a range of about 165 miles (or about 300kms). The MLT-1 LIDAR system uses normal LIDAR, which uses a laser to detect the range of the target, as well as Doppler LIDAR which is used to detect the velocity of the target. DIAL is also used to detect chemical composition of the target. The Praetorian Vs are also hooked up to the MRT-1/N RADAR system used by Macabee Naval vessels. The MRT-1 is based off the TENEX SPY-6 RADAR system, however uses a larger power box, as well as a larger computer network to catch enemy flyers at 700kms. However, the MRT-1 is restricted to altitude of over thirty meters in height (around 100 miles), and for lower altitudes (100 miles to 1,000 miles) is severely restricted in range. The MRT-4 RADAR system is used for sea-skimming missiles, or low flying aircraft. It uses radio waves to track below the minimum range of the MRT-1. The advantages in having two systems do what one could do are that now we have specialization of jobs, and the MRT-4 can focus on one thing, while the MRT-1 focuses on another. To support this massive computer system the CPU uses ln2 coolant to over clock a twenty gigahertz system to thirty gigahertz.

The actual Praetorian V has its own CPU installed on the backside of the missile, above the scramjet engine, and it uses its own MLT-2 LIDAR system, which has a range of two kilometers, and is used for final phase target location purposes. The Praetorian V missile uses the computers to still use the ship based MRT-1, MRT-4 and the MLT-1 systems. This provides a very accurate and effective surface to air missile system. The Praetorian V can be used as an anti-missile, as well as an anti-air SAM.

For SAM purposes each Rommel sports twenty Praetorian V batteries, giving the Rommel the firepower to defend with four hundred SAMs in each volley. The Praetorian V system uses an advanced reload system using hydraulic propulsion to lift the missile out of stock racks and push into the barrel of the Praetorian V launch platforms. Each Rommel battleship is outfitted with two thousand Praetorian V missiles in stocks, giving each SAM one hundred Praetorian V missiles, useful for five volleys each SAM.

Loki ASROC: The Loki ASROC system is a ten tube 500mm torpedo launch system placed strategically around naval vessels which incorporate the system. The Loki ASROC can use the MAT-1 anti-torpedo, the MT-2 SuCav torpedo for short ranges, and the MT-3 water ramjet/pumpjet torpedo for long range use. Each Rommel carries one hundred of each type of torpedo, used in five different ASROC batteries placed on the battleship.

The Loki ASROC has an advanced material composition using THYMONEL 8, a third generation single crystal super alloy, as a coating on the steel launch platform. The THYMONEL 8 coating allows for the resistance to Hydrogen Embrittlement, and the heat of the missile booster. This allows for a rate of fire of all ten torpedoes in eight seconds time. A hydraulic reloading system can restock the Loki ASROC system in ten seconds time.

DREAD:

Imagine a gun with no recoil, no sound, no heat, no gunpowder, no visible firing signature (muzzle flash), and no stoppages or jams of any kind. Now imagine that this gun could fire .308 caliber and .50 caliber metal projectiles accurately at up to 8,000 fps (feet-per-second), featured an infinitely variable/programmable cyclic rate-of-fire (as high as 120,000 rounds-per-minute), and were capable of laying down a 360-degree field of fire. What if you could mount this weapon on any military Humvee (HMMWV), any helicopter/gunship, any armored personnel carrier (APC), and any other vehicle for which the technology were applicable?

That would really be something, wouldn't it? Some of you might be wondering, "how big would it be", or "how much would it weigh"? Others might want to know what it's ammunition capacity would be. These are all good questions, assuming of course that a weapon like this were actually possible.

According to its inventor, not only is it possible, it’s already happened. An updated version of the weapon will be available soon. It will arrive in the form of a...

tactically-configured pre-production anti-personnel weapon firing .308 caliber projectiles (accurately) at 2,500-3000 fps, at a variable/programmable cyclic rate of 5,000-120,000 rpm (rounds-per-minute). The weapon's designer/inventor has informed DefRev that future versions of the weapon will be capable of achieving projectile velocities in the 5,000-8,000 fps range with no difficulty. The technology already exists.

The weapon itself is called the DREAD, or Multiple Projectile Delivery System (MPDS), and it may just be the most revolutionary infantry weapon system concept that DefenseReview has EVER come across.

The DREAD Weapon System is the brainchild of weapons designer/inventor Charles St. George. It will be 40 inches long, 32 inches wide, and 3 inches high (20 inches high with the pintel swivel mount). It will be comprised of only 30 component parts, and will have an empty weight of only 28 pounds. That's right, 28 pounds. The weapon will be capable of rotating 360 degrees and enjoy the same elevation and declination capabilities of any conventional vehicle-mounted gun/weapon.

The first generation DREAD (production version), derived from the tactically-configured pre-production weapon, will most likely be a ground vehicle-mounted anti-personnel weapon. Military Humvees (HMMV's) and other ground vehicles (including Chevy Suburbans) equipped with the DREAD will enjoy magazine capacities of at least 50,000 rounds of .308 Cal., or 10,000 rounds of .50 Cal. ammo.

But, what is the DREAD, really? How does it work? In a sentence, the DREAD is an electrically-powered centrifuge weapon, or centrifuge "gun". So, instead of using self-contained cartridges containing powdered propellant (gunpowder), the DREAD's ammunition will be .308 and .50 caliber round metal balls (steel, tungsten, tungsten carbide, ceramic-coated tungsten, etc...) that will be literally spun out of the weapon at speeds as high as 8000 fps (give or take a few hundred feet-per-second) at rather extreme rpm's, striking their targets with overwhelming and devastating firepower. We're talking about total target saturation, here. All this, of course, makes the DREAD revolutionary in the literal sense, as well as the conceptual one.

According to the DREAD Advantages Sheet, "unlike conventional weapons that deliver a bullet to the target in intervals of about 180 feet, the DREAD's rounds will arrive only 30 thousandths of an inch apart (1/32nd of an inch apart), thereby presenting substantially more mass to the target in much less time than previously possible." This mass can be delivered to the target in 10-round bursts, or the DREAD can be programmed to deliver as many rounds as you want, per trigger-pull. Of course, the operator can just as easily set the DREAD to fire on full-auto, with no burst limiter. On that setting, the number of projectiles sent down range per trigger-pull will rely on the operator’s trigger control. Even then, every round is still going right into the target. You see, the DREAD's not just accurate, it's also recoilless. No recoil. None. So, every "fired" round is going right where you aim it.

One of the ammunition types the DREAD will be delivering downrange is the "Collision Cluster Round", or "CCR", that will be used to penetrate hard targets. The Collision Cluster Round (CCR) is explained in more detail on the munitions page of the DREAD Technology White Paper (links below). The DREAD Advantages Sheet also lists all the other advantages that the DREAD Weapon System enjoys over conventional firearms.

And, all this from a weapon that doesn't jam. Remember how at the beginning of the article I wrote “no stoppages or jams”? The DREAD won't jam because, according to its inventor, it can’t jam. The DREAD's operating and feeding mechanisms simply don’t allow for stoppages or jams to occur. It thus follows that the DREAD Centrifuge Weapon will be the most reliable metallic projectile launcher/ballistic device on the planet. DefRev is not at liberty to publish exactly why the DREAD can’t jam, since Mr. St. George hasn’t given us permission to describe the gun’s operating and feeding mechanisms in any detail.

The only thing the DREAD's operator will really have to worry about is running out of ammo, which isn’t likely. Any reasonably skilled gunner (Humvee, APC, Apache attack helicopter, etc.--doesn't matter) should be able to avoid running through all 50,000 (or more) rounds of .308 Cal. or 10,000 (or more) rounds of .50 Cal. ammo prematurely, especially when he or she can dial down the DREAD's cyclic rate to 5,000 rpm or slower, if necesssary. Even if it becomes necessary to increase the DREAD's magazine capacity to upwards of 100,000 rounds (.308 Cal.) or 20,0000 rounds (.50 Cal.), and run the weapon all day and all night for weeks on end, this will have absolutely no effect whatsoever (positive or negative) on the reliability or durability of the weapon system. The DREAD is both heatless and frictionless, and doesn’t generate any high pressures. So, there’s virtually no wear and tear on the system, no matter how many rounds are fired through it back-to-back, even if it's run constantly on full-auto at 120,000 rpm, the whole time.

Here's the kicker: because it's electrically powered and doesn't use any powdered propellant for it's operation, the DREAD Centrifuge Weapon is virtually silent (no sound signature), except for the supersonic "crack" of the metal balls breaking the sound barrier when they're launched. This makes the direction that the rounds are coming from, and their point of origin (firing source), very difficult for enemy forces to identify. It also allows the operator to communicate easily with his team, or with his command structure, while he's still firing on the enemy (with the DREAD). With the DREAD, he won't have to fight to communicate over his own weapon's firing report. And, since the gun doesn't generate any muzzle flash or heat (it's heatless and frictionless, remember?), it doesn't produce any flash signature or heat signature. So, identifying the gun itself with IR (infrared) sensors will be impossible. The vehicle that the DREAD is mounted on is the only thing that will display a heat signature. That leaves you with a difficult-to-detect/locate weapon with a virtually endless suppy of ammo. Even if the DREAD-equipped vehicle does get identified and fired upon by the enemy, the risk of a catastrophic explosion from a bullet strike on the ammunition supply is zero, because the DREAD’s ammunition doesn’t contain any propellant. There’s no gunpowder onboard to blow up. That just leaves the gas tank (vehicle’s). Nothing’s foolproof.

There's more. Since the DREAD/MPDS (Multiple Projectile Delivery System) is a centrifuge weapon, projectile velocity can be adjusted instantly back and forth between lethal and less-lethal/non-lethal modes. This means it can be utilized just as effectively for embassy security and peacekeeping roles. As an embassy security weapon, the less-lethal/non lethal mode would most likely be the way to go, in most cases. Less-lethal is usually adequate for any crowd control or riot control situations. However, let’s say the crowd starts storming the gates, and now presents a lethal threat to the occupants inside. Well, just pull your Marines inside, switch your remotely-operated battery of DREAD's on over to lethal mode, and make survival above ground impossible for anyone outside the embassy. No one gets in. Same thing goes for military base security. Remote DREAD Centrifuge Gun Pods can be outfitted with heat and motion sensors, and left in unmanned areas. These remote pods can be either human-operated, or pre-programmed with both less-lethal/non-lethal and lethal protocols that will function automatically and not even require human operation. Mobile robotic platforms, including remote-controlled Unmanned Ground Combat Vehicles (UGCV's), could also be outfitted with DREAD systems. And, the list goes on. The technology application possibilities/potential uses are virtually endless.

So, what’s the upshot? It's DefenseReview's opinion that, if the DREAD Weapon System works as advertised, it will have a profound impact on U.S. infantry warfare capabilities. It has the potential to literally change the way we fight on the ground, and perhaps even in the air. No question, it will revolutionize both ground and air vehicular armament and firepower capabilities. The DREAD will have a similarly profound impact on U.S. embassy security and military base perimeter security capabilities. This paradigm shift in firepower isn't limited to the ground and air, either. The DREAD's complete lack of recoil will allow it to be fired from space-based platforms, i.e. satellites, without knocking them off of their respective orbital paths. Zero recoil, plus 8,000 fps projectile speeds, 5,000-120,000 rpm capability, and huge on-board ammunition supplies, equals a viable and relatively inexpensive option for satellite defense (and enemy-satellite neutralization), and possibly even a fast-realizable armament solution/alternative for a U.S. Space-based defense network.


Vertical Launch Tubes: Like most battleships used today the Rommel is more of a missile boat than a conventional dreadnought; and it is much larger. Each Rommel carries somewhere around one thousand Principe III anti-shipping missile launched torpedoes, and one thousand five hundred MAAM Ausf. B cruise missiles. To fire these massive stockpiles of missiles each Rommel has ten VLT systems. Each VLT system has a four slot revolving missile launcher, which in order to fire a volley it fires, turns, fires, turns, etc, until all missiles are fired. The reloading process is even shorter, using a hydraulic loading system to push the missile back into the slot after each turn, meaning that the VLT system can keep a continuous launch sequence without pause. This makes the Rommel extremely dangerous when taking in the fact that the VLTs can continuously fire missiles off at enemies until the enemy is destroyed. The VLT system also uses a THYMONEL 8 coating to maintain the HEE and pressure giving to the launching platforms.

Main Guns: The Rommel has a forward quadruple platform 18” rail gun, with a range of about three hundred and fifty miles (ca. 2020 technology). The rail gun was installed after seeing New Empire’s ships in action against the Balearics. The Rommel has another quadruple platform 18” rail gun in the rear end of the ship, to provide secondary fire support. However, the Macabees rarely use this for offensive purposes, instead relying on missiles, which give the Macabees a greater range.

SONARs: The Rommel class Battleship uses the Poseidon SONAR system, which is capable of detecting louder shipping at up to one hundred kilometers away at the right circumstances, and advanced submarines at a maximum range of ten kilometers, burning through anechoic tiling quite easily. The Poseidon is considered one of the better SONAR systems used presently. The Poseidon is also programmed to detect the “black hole” effect which submarines using MHD have; making it easier to detect MHD propelled submarines.

The Rommel also has a new thin line towed array called the TB-163, which is as long as the Rommel itself, using thousands of hydrophones to detect submarine presence at up to forty kilometers away (ca. 28 miles). The TB-163 uses a strong nylon line to ensure that it doesn’t snap, although this could be potentially dangerous to the crew if its used stupidly. The Rommel also has another towed array called the TB-87 which focuses on shorter distances, using powerful hydrophones to detect close enemies.

RADARs: Macabee ships use the MRT-1 RADAR system to detect enemy aerial assets anywhere from 120 kilometers minimum to 700 kilometers maximum; depending on the circumstances, stealth levels, and altitude. The MRT-1 use a very powerful super computer and several screens to detect, filter, and portray enemy aerial assets. Based of the TENEX SPY-6 this well built system is, again, one of the better ones in use around the world, and provide the Macabees with a reliable early warning system.

Additionally, Macabee ships integrate the MRT-4 RADAR system which was built to focus on sea-skimmers. RADAR radio waves are able to catch both missiles and other objects, such as waves, and filter what is a wave, and what is a missile; and quite easily, and through regular technology. Simply, by using a supercomputer and C based program, the computers can detect range, vector, and velocity – hence, it can distinguish what is a missile or aircraft, and what isn’t. A wave doesn’t last at the same altitude, velocity and vector for ever – the wave falls short quite quickly – while a missile lasts in the air for quite a while (of course). Hence, it wasn’t too difficult to design a system capable of picking sea-skimmers up.

Finally, the Macabee ships include an MLT-1 LIDAR system which as a range of about 250 kilometers (165 miles). The MLT-1 uses regular LIDAR to detect range, Doppler LIDAR to detect velocity, and DIAL LIDAR to detect chemical composition.

Other Numbers: The Rommel displaces a total of 120,000 tons of water, with a length of 1400.7’ and a beam 161.3’. The Rommel has a crew of 2,000 members.

Cost: $1.6 billion USD
Lachenburg
31-01-2005, 03:22
OCC: Naming a battleship after a Tank Commander, eh? How interesting...
The Macabees
31-01-2005, 05:21
Ja...all my ships are named after German generals.
Gaian Ascendancy
31-01-2005, 05:31
((Tag for later after Operation Klondike-North.. (Probably a few NS years (a few days) after the operation is completed, less any interference.)

It looks very interesting and will probably buy a few to complement the Republic Fleets. ))
The Macabees
31-01-2005, 05:36
Good to hear!
Vastiva
31-01-2005, 06:23
OOC: 1.6 billion? With buckyballs at roughly $300 a gram/ $294 million per ton? I think not. 100 tons of your buckyball material (far from enough to make a decent armor coating on a section) would shoot the cost to over $294 billion to build, and that's only the outer armor, nothing else.
The Macabees
31-01-2005, 06:24
OOC: Another reason to take buckyballs off... will do.
The Macabees
31-01-2005, 06:28
However, mass producing the buckyball is considerably cheaper. The fact that the buckyball is relatively new to the industry in Real Life has nothing to do with its role in NationStates, since this ships is a post 2005 technology ship (perhaps somewhere around 2008 to 2010) and the considering the fact that my nation has been mass producing the buckyball since we first got our hands on it.
Vastiva
31-01-2005, 06:39
OOC: Alright, since your throwing down the gauntlet here:


Other Numbers: The Rommel displaces a total of 120,000 tons of water, with a length of 1400.7’ and a beam 161.3’. The Rommel has a crew of 2,000 members.

Cost: $1.6 billion USD

Length x height x thickness = about 338900 cubic feet on each side, or about one million cubic feet total (aiming low here intentionally), approximately 28,320,000,000 mililiters volume of the coating on the hull (1 ml = 1 gm).

28,320,000,000 grams of buckyballs, at $300 per gram, is $8,496,000,000,000 - or over eight trillion dollars.

And that's just one material to make the armor.

Even at $45 per gram (the projected lowest commercial cost), you have a minimum cost of $1,274,400,000,000 - again, just for the buckyballs. You haven't made armor sheets, you haven't done your imbedding, the ship isn't even anything beyond plans, and you've spent
$1.2 trillion on it. And you're selling it for $1.6 billion???

Is this a "going out of business" sale???
The Macabees
31-01-2005, 06:41
Again, you're completely ignoring the fact that I'm not using real world commercial prices - for all you know machinery, slavery, whatever the hell I feel like using, may be mass producing this for less than a dollar... again, however, since I know you'll never bend I changed it.
Pacific Northwesteria
31-01-2005, 15:02
Although it looks like buckets of fun, I have some problems with the whole "DREAD" system.
1. It's physically impossible.
2. It's still physically impossible.
3. The fact that it's physically impossible will never change.

It's called conservation of momentum. :)
The Macabees
31-01-2005, 18:53
Eh, not according to the DREAD gun tested on the humvee last month.
Verdant Archipelago
31-01-2005, 19:03
i am... Skeptical about DREAD's claims. Yes they can get a high rate of fire. Yes they can more or less eliminate recoil. But muzzle veliocity will be crap, you can only fire metal balls, not fuzed shells, accuracy will be remarkably bad (short barrel, no rifling) and if anything breaks, and things WILL break, the entire thing will fly apart.

Your MEXAS claims are also wildly inflated.
The Macabees
01-02-2005, 01:01
According to a German Armed Forces pamphelt the claims are completely correct.
Vastiva
01-02-2005, 09:58
OOC: Macabees is entirely correct about the DREAD - it is a functional weapons system at this time.

The Law of Conservation of momentum is not broken in the least - it is part of the reason a miniature barrel is sufficient with accuracy. Accuracy has been reported as "very good" for that matter.

And you don't need fuzed shells. DREAD is more of an anti-personel and anti-"lightly armored" vehicle weapon then anything else. I'm sure a tank under a DREAD barrage would at the very least have one hell of a headache. For a ship, it makes an excellent weapon against small vessels and boarding parties. At close range, it could also cause problems to an enemy vessel.

It is, however, a lousy CIWS.
Harlesburg
01-02-2005, 10:05
OCC: Naming a battleship after a Tank Commander, eh? How interesting...
Panzer is German for ships Armour(and Armidillo?or something)
New York and Jersey
01-02-2005, 10:10
OOC:

I still dont get why anyone would name a ship after an Army General...generally speaking Armies and Navies are always rivals in large industralized nations as they compete for resources..there are plenty of decent German Admirals as well. If you want to name something Rommel at least make it a Land Battleship or something..
Vastiva
01-02-2005, 10:13
OOC: On MEXAS:


the Germans designed, and now use, MEXAS armor which means that a mere 20 millimeters of MEXAS armor has an RHA strength of three thousand millimeters - although, KE resistance is poor.

As many, many, many Nations use electro-thermal and railguns on their ships, the choice of using MEXAS is questionable, though it will significantly cause problems to lower tech Nations.

For that matter, using DREAD, you could blow off all the MEXAS on the ship.

MEXAS will also lose some of its protective ability if mounted incorrectly or insufficiently, meaning this ship will have an incredible amount of internal ribbing to support the MEXAS properly, which will increase tonnage (can't be aluminum or lightweight metals for the abovementioned reasons) and cost.

Still, this is an effective and modern tech armor, quite feasibly installed on a battleship.
Verdant Archipelago
02-02-2005, 22:07
I never said DREAD didn't work, I said it's claims are inflated. As I stated earlier, a short barrel length, lack of rifling, and low initial velocity make it an ineffective weapon unless you need to shred large numbers of infantry at close range or harvest feilds of wheat.

Mexas, while a reasonable alternative to ERA, is totally useless in naval warfare as no signifigant antiship weapon relies on HEAT warheads. My comment about your exagerated claims was assuming it was hit by a conventional projectile rather than a HEAT shell.
Exetonia
02-02-2005, 22:23
Exetonia will take to a 3.2 billion dollars to lead her fleets.

Money autowired upon confirmation
Praetonia
02-02-2005, 22:27
This is way too cheap. The Type 45 Destroy will cost £500,000,000 per copy (ie about $950,000,000 in foreign currency). You are therefore suggesting that a 2020 tech 120,000tonne battleship is going to cost less than two British AA destroyers.
Vastiva
05-02-2005, 09:49
I never said DREAD didn't work, I said it's claims are inflated. As I stated earlier, a short barrel length, lack of rifling, and low initial velocity make it an ineffective weapon unless you need to shred large numbers of infantry at close range or harvest feilds of wheat.

Mexas, while a reasonable alternative to ERA, is totally useless in naval warfare as no signifigant antiship weapon relies on HEAT warheads. My comment about your exagerated claims was assuming it was hit by a conventional projectile rather than a HEAT shell.

OOC: You might compare a HEAT round to a modern naval missile round first.
Omz222
05-02-2005, 10:06
OOC: Still, a HEAT round/warhead (btw, not HE rounds fired from tank guns, which is used IRL against soft targets with its fragmentation capabilities) fired by standard tank guns or mounted on anti-tank missiles is still a different thing than a standard high explosive warhead in a modern anti-ship missile, as HEAT warheads typically involves penetrating using the metal "jet" thanks to the Munroe effect (not mentioning that even with newer designs, performance against infantry is still relatively poor when compared against other types of anti-personnel rounds). Today's anti-ship missiles, especially supersonic anti-ship missiles, primarily depend on the kinetic penetration of the missile, the fuel of the missile (fuel = flames), and the actual explosive warhead. Standard armour-piercing shells, which is still most likely to be used in a modern battleship vs. battleship battle, still depend on the actual kinetic energy to do the job of penetration.
Thus, something that is designed against anti-tank HEAT warheads by reducing its penetration capabilities isn't even near useful against anti-ship missiles (nor for the matter, shells) which takes the advantage of both penetration as a result of kinetic energy, and the actual explosive warhead (which does not function like an anti-tank HEAT warhead) to do the damage.
Verdant Archipelago
05-02-2005, 10:13
OOC: You might compare a HEAT round to a modern naval missile round first.

Not at all. Modern missiles are designed to penetrate, then detonate inside, not detonate while the warhead is still out of contact with the hull and fire a compressed stream of superheated metal into the hull. A weapon would have no effect on a BB... be like trying to kill an elephant with a sewing needle. Sure you can penetrate... but it doesn't MATTER. In any case, it would take a very big warhead to even penetrate BB's normal armor. Rule of thumb is that a HEAT warhead can penetrate about it's diameter. Or at least that's what it was in WWII... I have no doubt that it's about ten times that now, but even so, that mean's you'd need to be hitting it with 400mm warheads.
Omz222
05-02-2005, 10:23
OOC: Well, against modern tank armour here in NS it would be safe to say that the only feastible way to engage a tank is to use KE rounds (for example, standard "sabot" rounds fired by tank guns or kinetic penetrators on anti-tank systems). However, it should be noted that generally aside from penetration (which supersonic missiles would probably do best, while sacrificing some warhead capacity), the fuel of the missile is also a very dangerous thing, as it had already proven itself in the Falklands. Against the wide variety of "anti-battleship missiles" in addition to various KE weapons, I'm still a fan of a "composite" armour scheme though where different materials of different types are used in thinner layers to counter a variety of threats, instead of just putting inches and inches of steel as armour.
Verdant Archipelago
05-02-2005, 10:39
Oh, I am too. But this battleship has a type of NERA, or non-explosive reactive armor specifically designed to defeat shaped charges, and useless against everything else.
Vastiva
05-02-2005, 10:52
In other words, better against mines (not torpedoes), and near useless against missiles.




... I love it when a plan comes together....
Verdant Archipelago
05-02-2005, 12:15
Even mines don't usually use shaped charges... anything that would seriously inconvenience a normal BB will hurt a BB with Mexas