NationStates Jolt Archive

A recent series of telegrams appearing in my inbox, along with musings of various discussions both on and off International Incidents has led me to start thinking. I have seen a number of threads where people have had IC hostility toward one another and have noticed some things.

In my opinion, the best wars on NationStates are the ones where both 'enemies' cooperate with each other to tell a story. However, if IC animosity spills over into OOC interactions with someone, this cooperation becomes nearly impossible to achieve. Once people start putting their abilities to win or lose a war over the joy of telling the story, wars stop becoming interesting reading and start becoming, for lack of a better term, "pissing contests."

Of the wars or combat exercises I've fought in my time in NationStates, the ones in which there has been a high level of cooperation between the players involved have been the ones that almost universally have gone well. Just because I hate someone ICly doesn't mean I can't respect the hell out of that person OOCly. Prime example: Generic Empire. I have a feeling if we both continue in NationStates for a while, our IC rivalry/hostility could be worthy of the classic AMF-Melkor Unchained rivalries. Once the Roach-Busters front finishes in our war (Can't See Eye to Eye), the Generic Empire front will heat up. However, I'm finding out that we have a lot in common, including a shared love of writing, a passion for storytelling, and even similar tastes in music.

The difference between this war, which is being marked by IM conversations when we plan out some of the events and how we're going to get there so we can tell a believeable story, and some wars I've been in is the lack of OOC resentment. The wars in which there has been OOC animosity have almost always devolved into OOC griping and shouting and ultimately ended up in flames and an ignore. In NationStates at least, it's not whether you win or lose the war. It's how you played the game (or told the story). When GE and I do our ground combat, I'm going to write about the near-complete destruction of the army I'm going to use. And you know what? I have a feeling that's going to be some of the most fun I'm going to have writing. I can already picture some of the words in my head, and that usually is a good sign.

I don't mind losing, as long as I can lose without godmodding or the godawful dogpiling.

Well to be honest, I try not dislike a player for any reason whatsoever and in my entire history of NS I've only made on exclusion to that; Presgrief.

After that entire hate thread against me I was kind of ticked-off because a player had attacked me in person, no longer in the game, however I've forgiven him/her(not sure on this one) but somehow I don't realy think he/she cares.

Anyway, on to the rest of the story, NS is about the story, not the winning and if you can cooperate with each other to write a great RP then I suggest you do so.

Good examples of these are a few charachter RP's I did with the Merchant Guilds, it greatly helped to tweak the responses and made for a fantastic story. Currently doing one with TMG again, I have every confidence that it will turn out as great as the last one.

I can take losing, as long as it makes the story better. If it is just a case of the enemy godmodding me to death or we had a set battle plan and he changes it on me, then I get irritated.

I'm totally willing to lose, but the enemy has to defeat me with good strategy and tactics. Not tech/numberwank.

I agree, for the most part. However, if they refuse to allow a retreat, and insist on destroying everything, then I get C-3PO'd.

bump for others to see/comment upon.

And another bump.

There's no point in playing if you don't want to win. If you want to play at being an author then just use Word.

I'll lose if I'm actually beaten.. it's nice to win battles, and I've got a decent grasp of tactics so I can usually give as good as I get, but if I'm actually outmanouvered, I try to save what I can and retreat...

Of course, my countries tend to have rather extreme nuclear doctrines, so I try not to get into many wars on my own territory for fear that I'll start a nuclear one.

I totaly agree with you sarz, IC, my nation is a real asshole to others, OOC: I try to be helpful and stuff like that. Winning the war is not important, its telling the story that is. Although winning would be nice it is much better to become respected by loss, then disliked by victory.

Personally, I agree e.g. The Shivan Return and it's off shoots are largely co-operative.

I always try to be understanding OOC with some players however it does get very hard. This is why I prefer to play to win but in such a manner as that I am quite prepared to loose if I am outthought and outfought.

BUT

I think people should stop going in for total surrender/nation destruction it only causes god-modding and people finding OOC reasons not to accept things...

Theres my couple of pence...

That's all part of the OOC cooperation though. Figure out what your goals should be (ideally, they should be something less than total destruction of a nation) and then go into the war with that understanding. If someone realizes their nation's very existence isn't at stake, they might be less likely to feel like they have to Godmode just to "survive."

The rebellion RP I'm setting up with my colony Talzeckia fighting Isselmere's army and Euroslavia's navy doesn't have a pre-determined outcome. If Isselmere's army beats the rebels, Talzeckia remains a Sarzonian colony. If Talzeckia's army wins, they gain independence. The RP is actually something that will give me an opportunity to gain some experience with ground combat RPing and also give Euroslavia a chance to gain some experience with naval RPing with the stakes not being supremely high.

But like I said there are players, who will not have truck with anything less, yes it's very important players have an understanding between the combatents and run any contraversial moves past the players before they are posted. Otherwise it develops into flame fests... and thus into ignore fests...

I dont mind losing at all, as long as I gave it a good go and the winner knows how to role-play and hasent godmoded.

But like I said there are players, who will not have truck with anything less, yes it's very important players have an understanding between the combatents and run any contraversial moves past the players before they are posted. Otherwise it develops into flame fests... and thus into ignore fests...Yeah, I know. That's one of the reasons I created this thread in the first place. Is there something to be said for outthinking someone and outfighting them and thus winning a war? Yes. But first and foremost, this is about story and it's about fun for all involved. You shouldn't want to have fun at someone else's expense if they don't want to see their nation wiped out or their leaders killed.

I am really a cooperative sort of nation, RPing both MT soldiers with custom weapons and 40K space marines for FT RPs. I do like the Blood Angels.

However, I don't like Cherry Ridge, if a nation could be a wanker, he'd be jizzing all over the place.

While my active time here has been rather short, I have succesfully ended a Civil War (which erupted into something much bigger than I thought it would), but that was with some help too. I must say, as the posts continued though, it did seem to become rather. . .well. . let's just say that the lack of respect towards one another caused it to tip in the favor of one side. I.G.N.O.R.E. cannons were used, and we all know the thread is basically shot when it comes down to that.


However, I can see people's points when one believes that a good storyline will make up for a loss, for at least you can take the satisfaction that you lost in the best possible manner: willingly.

I prefer taking part in character RPs or playing only minor parts in war RPs because of the fact that it doesn't matter so much to people doing character RPs whether you win or lose - however in war RPs I find things tend to get more heated.

OOC: I don't mind losing at all. (Just out of curiosity, but who was this thread directed at? I don't think it's directed at anyone in particular, I'm just curious)

IC:

Never! I will never concede defeat!

-Generalissimo J.L., in Sarzonian captivity

It's not really directed at any one person in particular, but it's meant as kind of a reminder to some folks what the purpose behind this game is all about.

I'll tell you more about it in a TG.