NationStates Jolt Archive

Quite simply put, if our SDI network detects a launch, the missiles WILL be eliminated, to the best of our ability. We do not want nukes flying around, regardless of the source or the target.

Axis Nova

I see. how effective is the system? what's it's range? how if all, does it differenciate payloads?

DGNT recalls a saying:
"Those who in arguements interpose, must often wipe a bloody nose"
Apply it.

I see. how effective is the system? what's it's range? how if all, does it differenciate payloads?


Instead of choosing to develop and maintain an NBC arsenal, Axis Nova has instead opted to pour funds into developing the best possible SDI network that we can. The primary method of interdiction is detonating a bomb-pumped X-ray laser to wipe out most of an enemy salvo, and the rest are either cleaned up with kinetic kill weapons, satellite mounted lasers, or another bomb-pumped laser if the first one did not reduce the number of missiles sufficiently.

Of course, we have additional ground based facilities, but those would presumably only come into use if a launch were directed at us. We depend almost entirely on our extensive satellite network.

Payload is largely irrelevant to us-- the intent of the system is to neutralize as many missiles as efficiently as possible.

Axis Nova

(ooc: I -can- back this up. Search my post history, there are several threads about me launching lots of satellites-- and had anyone bothered to take notice, they would have been able to tell what I was doing)

To: Axis Novan Government
From: Imperial Praetonian Ministry of Defence

Any attempt to shoot down Praetonian ICBMs will be met with an overwhelming
ASAT launch against Novan sattelite defences followed by a full strategic
nuclear strike against Axis Nova.

To: Axis Novan Government
From: Imperial Praetonian Ministry of Defence

Any attempt to shoot down Praetonian ICBMs will be met with an overwhelming
ASAT launch against Novan sattelite defences followed by a full strategic
nuclear strike against Axis Nova.

OOC: Er, Praetonia, we're allies last I checked. Why the belligerence? =p

IC: We do not recommend this course of action on your part. If any of our satellites have ASAT missiles fired at them, the missiles will be eliminated and then the launch facility-- our national security WILL NOT be threatened.

Would this apply to conventional high explosive ICBMs as well as nuclear, chemical, or biological missiles?

Would this apply to conventional high explosive ICBMs as well as nuclear, chemical, or biological missiles?

We do not have a way to tell the difference, so yes it does-- any ICBMs launched will be eliminated.

what about submarine-launched Medium-Range Ballistic Missiles that don't leave the atmosphere?

what about submarine-launched Medium-Range Ballistic Missiles that don't leave the atmosphere?

If it does not leave the atmosphere, it cannot usually be interdicted by our system. We regard this as an acceptable shortcoming given the usual difficulties of moving ground-based nuclear weapons, and simply seek to remove the most dangerous and quick nuclear strike weapon as an option from everyone's arsenal-- greatly reducing the risk of global catastrophe.

OOC: Er, Praetonia, we're allies last I checked. Why the belligerence? =p

IC: We do not recommend this course of action on your part. If any of our satellites have ASAT missiles fired at them, the missiles will be eliminated and then the launch facility-- our national security WILL NOT be threatened.
OOC: Oh yes so we are. Well then IGNORE that statement. Im a little tired... Replace it with this one:

To: Axis Novan Government
From: Imperial Foreign Office

We are saddened that our Novan allies have chosen to deny nations the
protection of MAD. We hope that if an actual launch takes place, not least
from our nation, that you will not seek to impede it.

OOC: Just as a note to people here-- this will by no means make nuking someone impossible. My SDI network can only affect the long range ICBMs that enter orbit-- aircraft or cruise missile delivered nukes will be entirely unaffected by this, as will submarine-launched missiles if they don't leave the atmosphere. And, of course, any sort of artillery shell/rocket/torpedo/hand-placed bomb/whatever would be entirely unaffected. I'm basically doing this as a means to stop people spraying MIRVs everywhere and forcing them to actually have to work to get a nuke to hit someone.

PIcaRDMPCia wishes to thank Axis Nova for this manuever, as this will help prevent Dimmimar from launching a counter strike of nuclear missiles should we detonate one of our Tactical Nuclear weapons amongst their enormous fleet. We also thank you for giving us this advantage against them, as otherwise we are hopelessly out-numbered and out-gunned.
-President Carpenter
OOC: So yeah, I can RP this defense into my RP, right?

PIcaRDMPCia wishes to thank Axis Nova for this manuever, as this will help prevent Dimmimar from launching a counter strike of nuclear missiles should we detonate one of our Tactical Nuclear weapons amongst their enormous fleet. We also thank you for giving us this advantage against them, as otherwise we are hopelessly out-numbered and out-gunned.
-President Carpenter
OOC: So yeah, I can RP this defense into my RP, right?

OOC: Open means open. Any useage of nukes between third parties doesn't involve me unless said nukes are ICBMs. Of course, keep in mind he could respond in kind with his own cruise missiles *shrug*

Your action invites suspicions and destruction. We will not stand to have our strategic weapons arsenal interfered with by anyone, no matter how beneficial and benevolent their intentions, and will not hesitate to initiate strikes on Axis Nova, should such an interdiction be attempted, with all of our available weaponry.

If I could fire a rock that leaves the atmosphere and lands on another continent, would you attempt to shoot it down? It is technically a missile, and it is intercontinental.

-Emperor Victor Ramius

We of the Republic of Morgenroete support the ideal of an international anti-ICBM network. We feel that this will help create a peaceful world and help protect the blue eath on which we all live. We applaud Axis Nova for their bold plan.

Signed,
The Most Honerable Secratary of State of the Republic of Morgenroete,
Cassandra Jace

Would this plan not give Axis Nova a monoply on ICBMs and their use?

(He doesn't have ICBMs, all the money that would be used for them went instead to SDI. Although I suppose if he has any allies that want to glass someone....)

OOC: Oh yes so we are. Well then IGNORE that statement. Im a little tired... Replace it with this one:

To: Axis Novan Government
From: Imperial Foreign Office

We are saddened that our Novan allies have chosen to deny nations the
protection of MAD. We hope that if an actual launch takes place, not least
from our nation, that you will not seek to impede it.

OOC: ROFFLE!!! :l) Check your TGs.

10 Triomphant SSBN's begin to head toward Axis Nova, submerged, with final destinations 7,000 km of Axis nova, and spread out.

1. How do you plan on distinguishing between suborbital space flight (SpaceShip One style) and an ICBM?
2. Declaring a system to have 100% efficiency is essentially godmoding.

Any attempt by Axis Nova to interfere or disrupt Eredronian military operations and deployment, conventional and otherwise, will result in an immediate state of war, and appropriate action will be taken against Axis Nova.

"3...2...1... Launching"

The 200kt nuclear ICBM launched from one of the newer Silo's in Malawi. Officially being launched only to test its effectiveness, the ICBM would be going over the space over the lower atlantic ocean. Once it ran out of power, it would explode in space, assumingly well away from any satelites. If any were detected close, its trajectory would be changed to accomodate.

(He doesn't have ICBMs, all the money that would be used for them went instead to SDI. Although I suppose if he has any allies that want to glass someone....)

OOC: When I said all, I meant ALL.


1. How do you plan on distinguishing between suborbital space flight (SpaceShip One style) and an ICBM?
2. Declaring a system to have 100% efficiency is essentially godmoding.


OOC:
1. The system will lock onto anything it can engage, though it will track anything that could be an ICBM launch. It has a preset list of conditions that must be fulfilled before it can fire, to ensure it doesn't automatically engage a civilian craft. The system is monitored 24/7 by humans to further ensure that such an accident won't happen.
2. Fine, you explain to me how such a huge system as I have could be beaten by most nation's nuclear arsenals-- it is set up to be able to handle either large or small numbers of missiles, and pretty much everyone just sat there and scratched their heads as I built it up over MONTHS of real time.

First component-- the bomb-pumped X-ray lasers WILL kill anything that gets within their area of effect. They actually become more effective as more missiles are launched at a particular target. (They won't often be employed unless a nation tries an all-out strike of some sort that would merit using them).

Second component-- Kinetic-kill devices. These encompass such things as missiles and assorted linear guns, as well as various devices that attempt to fling many tiny pieces of metal into the paths of the missiles (a collision at those velocities is guranteed to wreck an ICBM).

Third component-- Lasers. This is probably the most expensive part of the system, as it requires me to keep large satellites with fusion-powered free electron lasers floating around. However, they are almost perfectly accurate, and are used to assist the second component or to engage small numbers of missiles that don't warrant using the rest of the system to target.

The second and third components also can engage ASATs, though of course those can be harder to hit due to their being much smaller than an ICBM. Needless to say, they'll also shred modern-tech/postmodern space vessels quite efficiently, though I have no intention of interfering with your space programs unless you attempt to mess with the network *shrug*

Extra satellites for all three parts are produced and stored at my orbiting natural resource satellites (another thing you all let me put up without any comments at all), and can easily and quickly be replaced if expended.

Had any of you bothered to investigate while this system was being constructed, you would have had plenty of opportunity to screw it up-- but now that it's complete, you're pretty much screwed, and you have nothing but your own inattentiveness to blame for it.


"3...2...1... Launching"

The 200kt nuclear ICBM launched from one of the newer Silo's in Malawi. Officially being launched only to test its effectiveness, the ICBM would be going over the space over the lower atlantic ocean. Once it ran out of power, it would explode in space, assumingly well away from any satelites. If any were detected close, its trajectory would be changed to accomodate.


As the system detects a launch, it begins tracking the missile's thermal signature. While the ICBM rises higher, the trajectory is computed, and several satellites change course slightly to cover it. Once the missile gets into range, a satellite fires a cannister, which explodes and sends a spray of metal into the ICBM's path. A SOL satellite locks onto the missile, ready to engage if it is not defeated by the first satellite's attack.

OOC: How do you destroy anything with an X-Ray? And what does "bomb-pumped" mean? Anyway, the easy way to get rid of this is to launch thousands of ASATs at it, and then shoot down anything launched from Axis Nova with your ABM.

OOC: How do you destroy anything with an X-Ray? And what does "bomb-pumped" mean? Anyway, the easy way to get rid of this is to launch thousands of ASATs at it, and then shoot down anything launched from Axis Nova with your ABM.

OOC: I said X-ray lasers, not X-rays. Google it *shrug* I purchase the bombs for the process from a postmodern spacetech nation that I have a mutually beneficial arrangement with.

Also, no country HAS thousands of ASATs-- developing such a large number would force you to skimp in other areas.

Re the launches...

A) As I said, the new satellites wouldn't be deployed from the ground-- they are already produced and deployed IN ORBIT.

B) There's no one else on the continent my nation is on but some of Sileetris's people and various random trash. How exactly will anyone's ABMs be in a position to stop ground-based launches on my part?

C) As I said, if ASATs are fired at any part of the network, the launch facility will be destroyed-- via kinetic bombardment from one of my natural resource sats.

I have the high ground in pretty much every sense here-- anyone who tries launching an all-out ICBM salvo can be linked to this post and told to shut up and RP better. I'm performing a public service here :)

OOC: Well yes, X-rays are, like light, part of the electromagnetic spectrum, but I dont see how putting 'laser' in front of the word somehow changes its wave properties, but you're probably right.

1000s of ASATs... of course it would be impractical to create such a standing force, but as a one-of attack it will cost billions to tens of billions at most, and so will nto be all that impractical, especially if several nations teamed up.

As for your magical ability to auto-destroy an ASAT location desipte the possiblity of it being mobile I dont understand.

ABMs are sattelite networks like yours. Saying that it's impossible for anything you launch to be shot down whilst at the same time saying you have a 100% success rate against our launches is godmodding.

OOC: I didn't say it was impossible to take down the network-- just impractical and ridiculously expensive, since I could probably replace parts of it faster than people could manufacture ASATs to shoot them down-- and all the time, things would be falling from the sky. Really, I'm just trying to make an interesting RP here. ;)

As the system detects a launch, it begins tracking the missile's thermal signature. While the ICBM rises higher, the trajectory is computed, and several satellites change course slightly to cover it. Once the missile gets into range, a satellite fires a cannister, which explodes and sends a spray of metal into the ICBM's path. A SOL satellite locks onto the missile, ready to engage if it is not defeated by the first satellite's attack.Hrm. You know, the metal stays there, in orbit, threatening any and all satellites floating around, and by doing this maneuver often enough, you're effectively preventing the use of space, no matter for what means. Since, ya'know, a few dozen grams at 6- 9km/s are *nasty*.

... Granted, futuristic wankers like myself deal with such problems by $Plotdevice, but still...

OOC: How do you destroy anything with an X-Ray? And what does "bomb-pumped" mean? Focusing it (Hence, the 'laser' part), hitting a target, and vaporising it. Or melting, or damaging its circuits, depending on the energy involved.

And the bomb pumped... Well, the X ray laser needs energy to be, well, created. The nuke's the energy source. Hence, why they're only single- use.

The Incorperation Of Ramissle uses Peacekeeper ICBM's as a defensive weapon. Any attempts to use this satillite system to damage the saftey of The Incorperation will be dealt with a long range bombing of your satillite relay stations. Thank You for listening.
Admiral Preble, Emergency Head of the Ramisslian Militiary.

OOC:
Great Idea, and I have to say, Nice work!

OOC: I didn't say it was impossible to take down the network-- just impractical and ridiculously expensive, since I could probably replace parts of it faster than people could manufacture ASATs to shoot them down-- and all the time, things would be falling from the sky. Really, I'm just trying to make an interesting RP here. ;)
OOC: I dont see how you make satellites faster than missiles, and things wouldnt be raining from the sky if your entire satellite network was just obliterated in a hail of missiles. I understand you want an interesting RP, but you cant just say "I win. ICBMs are useless." and not allow anyone any kind of recourse.

@Der Angst: I always thought a nuclear reactor was a controlled explosion, and so nothing really to do with a nuclear bomb. Otherwise it would blow up your satellite / powerstation, maybe?

Just to quote something given as a specific example of Godmoding in the sticky:

Nothing is Perfect
That goes for your tanks that never break down, your troops that never give up, your NMD that never misses...

Fancy that.

@Der Angst: I always thought a nuclear reactor was a controlled explosion, and so nothing really to do with a nuclear bomb. Otherwise it would blow up your satellite / powerstation, maybe?It is, and it would. But why carry an entire nuclear reactor (Which needs maintenance and shit, prone to malfunctions) into orbit for horrendous costs, when you can just take a 10- 20kt bomb (The slowly decaying uranium being the only real problem), and use the energy the explosion produces to power some microsecond- long X Ray Pulses in order to kill missiles? In the end, the latter is actually cheaper. Especially since the nuclear reactor might be incapable of producing the necessary energy for a missilekill (Within milliseconds, since that is the time the beam actually hits the missile. Yes, the velocities involved in orbital warfare are a bitch.), or it would have problems releasing energy saved in, say, batteries (It may have enough, but it needs to get out within a minimal timeframe).

Well, a really shiny thing would be a MIRVesque spacedyplatform to shoot out the bomblasers when needed...

Mind you, Axis has the tiny problem of needing... Uh.. For RL purposes, a few hundred, up to a few thousand sats would be needed. For NS purposes... A thousand times that? And while I freely admit to have a true fuckton of bombgrasers (A couple hundred in earth orbit, a couple hundred in other orbits (Yes, I'm a Sci Fi wanker, as mentioned above), and a couple thousand on ships... Well, he might have problems with having a few 100k to a few million bombsats out there.

OOC: I see. Well that makes sense and isn't all that invulnerable as AN is making out, although how is this 20kt explosion contained in a way that it doesnt just destroy the satellite?

OOC: I said X-ray lasers, not X-rays. Google it *shrug* I purchase the bombs for the process from a postmodern spacetech nation that I have a mutually beneficial arrangement with.

Future tech you say? Well that makes the entire thing ignoreable for all us modern tech types. Jolly good.

Future tech you say? Well that makes the entire thing ignoreable for all us modern tech types. Jolly good.


I'm postmodern, he's postmodern. I say spacetech because his nation is in space instead of on Earth.

OOC: I see. Well that makes sense and isn't all that invulnerable as AN is making out, although how is this 20kt explosion contained in a way that it doesnt just destroy the satellite?I have *no* idea. Apparently, the US tested Bomb pumped X Ray lasers in the mid- eighties (Underground), so, apart from them being horribly expensive (And probably suffering from various other problems I don't know about), it seems to work. Somehow.

Mind you, it does destroy the satellite. I.e vaporisation. Just, there seem to be a few microseconds remaining to allow for a short- pulsed X Ray beam. Or several, you can, after all, dot your satellite with lots of apertures.

A handy solution to this would be to plonk FOBS into orbit and wait. Or perhaps low-angle ballistic missile attacks by submarines, or cruise missiles. Maybe even free-fall bombs. Or alternatively, sending up as many ICBMs as you can and lobbing all the RVs once they enter orbit, then watching the fun as they at the least neutralise the satellites.

Or maybe just deliver a few thousand tonnes of bioweapons into his nation via any of the above means?

Sigh. Thread destroyed by people flooding with OOC posts and crapping on something that had the potential to be a decent RP. Requesting lock, please.

Thanks a lot, you stat wankers.

It's not that they statwank, this whole system is very unlikely to be as effective as you want it to be. Shooting down all ICBM's? A lot of nations won't be happy about that you know, and it has been said before; this gives you a virtual monopoly on long range balistic missiles.

Official Statement From Red Tide
"We couldnt care less. We are moving our nuclear warheads into manouverable sattelites anyways. Another thing to note is if you detonate a nuclear bomb in the exosphere, all the sattelites would short out due to EMP."

Chellis demands that Axis nova pay for the missile, the costs of making another missile, the costs to clean up the mess made up there, and apologize for destroying one of our missiles.

Chellis demands that Axis nova pay for the missile, the costs of making another missile, the costs to clean up the mess made up there, and apologize for destroying one of our missiles.

Chellis may forward it's bill to the Department of Privies, which will use the bill in the matter best suited for it.