NationStates Jolt Archive

This has always struck me as stupid. Why should you have to have territory on an earth to RP on it? Weren't these earths originally created to open up RP oppurtunities? They certainly weren't created to impede RPing by becoming little RP worlds all of themselves.

This odd trend in Earth RPing is more prominant in Earth II, which not only has the "not having territory means your attacks can be ignored" but also a "You must have claims on Earth II only if you want anything on Earth II". This strikes me as ludicrous in the extreme. Praetonia exists in a world which consists of "NS Earth" an esencially inifinite land that the more imaginative of us use for our homelands, and then all of the Earths, including I.

Praetonian ships can move between them with impunity as there is no IC reason why they shouldnt be able to. I mean if you want to invade something on Earth II / III / IV or whatever your ships have to get there in the first place, right? So is there some idiotic flaw of navigation that means your ships can only get there if they have the intention of invading it? I dont think so.

Earth I never had and still doesnt have these restrictions. Earth I was merely the real life earth, which acted like a collection of NPC states and wasnt "run" or "owned" or "ruled" by anyone. Sure, people made claims threads, but these were merely to collate all the info about who owned what and only n00bish claims or claims of land already taken were not added. This was a part of what I call 'NS Earth' and existed alongside peoples' nations which existed in non-RL landmasses.

Earth II was originally set up to be a way for people who, having been muscled out of Earth I by huge and largely inactive nations (most of which have long since migrated to NationStates or stopped RPing), to be allowed the oppurtunity to get some RP colonies on Earth. This seems to have lost its way. Earth II, and indeed most of the other Earths, have been handed over to new management, and although I can say with confidence that Layarteb and Colodia are doing a great job, Earth II is moving away from an alternate RL claims thread to a selective little RP world of its own.

Indeed, I am currently at war with Generic Empire. Now, as his territory is in Earth II, he could choose to IGNORE me. Thankfully, GE isnt the kind of person who takes advantage of stupid rules like that to hide from damage, but even so, I am not allowed, under the Earth II rules, to invade his territory, as I would be "Claiming Earth II territory without ceading my other claims on other earths". Meanwhile, he is allowed to attack my nation, it existing in 'NS Earth' and occupy it with impunity, as well as any of my colonies. Does this sound fair to you? To me it sounds moronic.

Earth DA appears to have gone a little further even than Earth II in allowing someone to claim their NS Earth homeland as part of this 'Earth'. This effectively means that anyone who attempts to invade someone who claims their made-up homeland in Earth DA can ring their borders with IGNORE cannon against anyone except other Earth DA players.

DA has also not allowed people he personally ignores to claim territory. Now although I understand his reasoning, and know that other Earth "managers" may do the same, this is a clear indication that these Earth mangers are no longer acting merely as a neutral collator of information, but as creators and therefore owners of "their" Earths. People who wont allow others they ignore to claim territory on "their" earths even if they agree never to cross paths in what is essencially a very large place.

Ive begun to see more and more that Earths are becoming RP worlds of their own, and that is not something that I like the sound of. I enjoy nationstates purely because it is a dynamic experience, where the actions of others affect you in a way that rather closely mirrors what happens in real life, and a place where you cant ignore someone just because you dont like what they're doing. A place where everyone can interact and everyone HAS to accept what other people do, so long as it is reasonable.

I would not want to see Earths erode that, and so I say now that anyone may invade any of my Earth claims without fear of ignore (unless you're a godmodder, of course), and if, when I attempt to invade your earth claims and you protest, I will ignore you for being a damned n00b. I also appeal for Layarteb and Colodia to repeal the Earth II claiming rule. Im sorry to put it so bluntly, but Earths have lost their way, and I refuse to be sucked in with the madness.

*Agrees*

The Earths were made to be on NS Earth.

I have always thought of Earths as seperate, multi-story RPs. There are Earths, and there is the NS Planet thingy. I've become quite confused by people who think that they can no longer RP with people who aren't in the same Earth as they are under any circumstances... I didn't think it was supposed to limit people so strictly.

I can understand that a manager doesnt want you to own land in different earth, these new earths are here to give everyone a chance to have a territory, not for the pleasure of a select group that owns land everywhere and dominates every earth

Attacking a nation on another earth shouldnt be a problem, if you win you could set up a new government (under owners supervision) or give it to someone else.

No offense but DA's idea is in my eyes, kinda disgusting. People who have never done anything wrong to DA are not allowed to RP with him or others in EDA. Only because the EII manager gave his territory to other people when he was deleted.

Here here! *claps loudly*

I have a claim in whatever the first earth is - which was done merely for the sport of it. I've never really RPed it.

This whole earth thing has gone too far.

I can understand that a manager doesnt want you to own land in different earth, these new earths are here to give everyone a chance to have a territory, not for the pleasure of a select group that owns land everywhere and dominates every earth
That wasnt the intention at all (about them becoming little RP groups), and I understand the arguments about select groups dominating earths etc, but if it's true then give me an example. Where has it EVER happened before? Earth I is largely inactive, apart from Europe, but can you say it is ruled by a select group of people? No, certainly not. Not long ago there was almost a World War in Earth I.

Attacking a nation on another earth shouldnt be a problem, if you win you could set up a new government (under owners supervision) or give it to someone else.
Right, so after millions of Praetonians have fought and died, my nation should, against its will, in some moronic turn of events either give the nation back or give it to someone else who had nothing to do with the war? Whilst the other side is placed under none of the same restrictions? Sorry, I dont buy that.

I don't know if the idea of exclusiveness came to mind when I saw the Earths appearing one after the other, but it seems to me that might have played on my mind when I thought about whether or not to start RPing on one or more of them. I was considering jumping onto an Earth II or and Earth III but it seemed as though Earth IV and Earth V appeared almost overnight. I figured trying to manage one territory in Africa, one in South America, and one near Oceania would be too much confusion to add, so I decided to forget the whole thing and not RP any of it.

It may sound callous for me to tell people who may want me to get involved on an alternate Earth RP that I ignore those other Earths out of hand, but I wouldn't want to mislead anyone into thinking that I do anything else.

The whole issue of ignoring claims of people you ignore on an alternate Earth can be taken one of two ways. I prefer to look at it from the point of view of not inviting someone you don't like to your house for dinner. Yes, I find people who won't RP with anyone other than their small circle of friends frustrating, but I also wouldn't want someone I have a hard IGNORE on getting involved in an RP I put up.

I don't agree with the rule you mention about having to have territory on a given alternate Earth to RP in it. Sarzonia's NS Earth location is really something I created to give some ease in RPing for the people who are unfamiliar with my region. There's really not supposed to be any actual location for the region itself according to the people who've been there a lot longer than I have. But I RP Sarzonia as being in the southern Atlantic between South America and Africa just for the sake of ease.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

That wasnt the intention at all (about them becoming little RP groups), and I understand the arguments about select groups dominating earths etc, but if it's true then give me an example. Where has it EVER happened before? Earth I is largely inactive, apart from Europe, but can you say it is ruled by a select group of people? No, certainly not. Not long ago there was almost a World War in Earth I.
It hasnt happened but that was the original idea when EII was started, to make sure new nations had a chance to claim territory.


Right, so after millions of Praetonians have fought and died, my nation should, against its will, in some moronic turn of events either give the nation back or give it to someone else who had nothing to do with the war? Whilst the other side is placed under none of the same restrictions? Sorry, I dont buy that.
Having a RL territory to RP isnt important but the death of your (RPed) soldiers is? Its a game, a screen full of letters, is it that important for you to own that territory?

To simplify things, my nation is just in all worlds at once. If people don't like that, too bad-- I put it on it's own continent specifically to avoid these stupid territory disputes.

Earth II exists as a game within a game to quote the mods. That means that all people who exist in Earth II exist in the grand NS universe. Those who choose to RP only in Earth II matters have the liberty to do that, not that I encourage it. We do allow non-Earth II people to participate if they wish to be rebels or something and this and that. You wanted a naval base in Earth II. How can you have a naval base without a country? This comes after way back when you and I had a discussion about you just not caring about these Earths anymore when I confronted you about having a claim in another Earth. Suddenly you care about the Earths?

The no multiple Earths rule is in effect because there are 50 Earths now and its just abuse city. One person on E2 didn't get what he wanted and started a new Earth and for that we removed him because that was blatantly taking advantage of the 150,000 square mile rule we put on those who wanted to stay in Earth II way back when we first had the problems.

The rule will not be repealed and it is not an alternative claims thread anymore. It is a separate and more independent entity in Nation-States, a game within a game. Binthor allowed Moronyicka, someone not in E2, to make an attempt at claiming Swaziland and we said fine, it was Binthor's decision. Afterwards we invited Moronyicka to come to Earth II and enjoy residence there.

The Phoenix Milita did a thread which basically was the NS Earth. In that thread you will find land by everyone, that's basically the main scheme. NS is a giant universe with planets and so on and so fourth. Everyone is part of that universe. Earth II is like a country-club in that universe except we're not really selective. Anyone can come so long as they abide by the simple rules we have set fourth. Only two people have been forcibly ejected, others either went inactive, got the DEAT, or respectfully rescinded their claims.

So you can take over GEs land because he does exist in the grand NS Earth as do I, as does Colodia, etc. Some people may choose to just RP in Earth II and as I said, that's their perogative, I'm not going to dictate anything in that realm.

The whole issue of ignoring claims of people you ignore on an alternate Earth can be taken one of two ways. I prefer to look at it from the point of view of not inviting someone you don't like to your house for dinner. Yes, I find people who won't RP with anyone other than their small circle of friends frustrating, but I also wouldn't want someone I have a hard IGNORE on getting involved in an RP I put up.
I understand and accept that, but the point I make is that any RPer, as the owner of an Earth thread, is acting purely in an OOC capacity, and whether or not he ignores someone is largely irrelevant. THey can keep their IC ignore, but ignores dont extend to OOC, and so there is no reason why an Earth "manager" or anyone else should be allowed to refuse to add a legitimate invasion that the majority of people who dont ignore said RPer would in fact recognise.

I don't agree with the rule you mention about having to have territory on a given alternate Earth to RP in it. Sarzonia's NS Earth location is really something I created to give some ease in RPing for the people who are unfamiliar with my region. There's really not supposed to be any actual location for the region itself according to the people who've been there a lot longer than I have. But I RP Sarzonia as being in the southern Atlantic between South America and Africa just for the sake of ease.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Exactly. Exactly what Im saying.

OOC: I apologise if I double post, but loads of people reply whilst Im answering these things.

It hasnt happened but that was the original idea when EII was started, to make sure new nations had a chance to claim territory.
Yes, and new nations will still get territory in Earth II. I dont see how even large nations would "control all the earths". No one has anywhere near that number of troops. It wouldnt happen for the same region that no one "controls all the nations" in NS and there really are no superpowers.

Having a RL territory to RP isnt important but the death of your (RPed) soldiers is? Its a game, a screen full of letters, is it that important for you to own that territory?
What Im saying is that IC my nation has fought for a territory, and there is no IC reason why it shouldnt be allowed to keep it. If your view is that NS is "just a screen full of letters" and so it doesnt matter than just go home because you obviously dont understand. I mean, if I programmed a computer game that was impossible to win would you not care because it's "just a load of pixels". I mean come on, that argument is stupid.

Some people like the rules. Being restricted allows me to have a more believible, and interesting role play. Well, I guess thats just because I like insane amounts of realism. Whatever any one else wants to think is fine.

Well, my book about the earths is very simple. Only (HP) Earth I, Layarteb's II and whoever runs earth III are ok. The rest is just... Too much. I don't mind people playing a nation but look around. There is absolutely no need to create a new earth just to suit your needs. Look at all the earths. It started with Mr 2002's RL claims thread, HP earth, earth II by jeff-whatever, earth III, earth II renewed, earth III renewed, earth IV, earth V, earth VI and not to mention all the parody earths, other earths and the newest of all, earth DA.

In my viewpoint, the first claim is as valid as the next provided they are RPed well enough to be recognized. Let's say, if an RP has 4 people claiming Russia I only recognize earth I. He was the first to claim it, so be it. It's hard and not really fair for the others but you got to draw the line somewhere. What else can you do? Russia, Russia, Russia vs USA, USA and USA?

OOC: I apologise if I double post, but loads of people reply whilst Im answering these things.


Yes, and new nations will still get territory in Earth II. I dont see how even large nations would "control all the earths". No one has anywhere near that number of troops. It wouldnt happen for the same region that no one "controls all the nations" in NS and there really are no superpowers.
An alliance could do this and they dont have to control every nation, just enough to dominante the place. You know what the original idea behind this is, its not a bad idea to have such a rule.


What Im saying is that IC my nation has fought for a territory, and there is no IC reason why it shouldnt be allowed to keep it. If your view is that NS is "just a screen full of letters" and so it doesnt matter than just go home because you obviously dont understand.
Then give it to an ally or set up a new government like the US did with Germany after WW2. Is it that important for you to have the territory when you took it?
If it is then you are the one who should go home, because you are taking this way too serious.
I mean, if I programmed a computer game that was impossible to win would you not care because it's "just a load of pixels". I mean come on, that argument is stupid.
Indeed I would not care because its only a game. Are you going to get mad behind your PC because you cant win? I'm a competitional gamer, i'd have an opportunity to get mad at the game(or person at the other side) every day. You need to take a vacation, you're taking this stuff too serious(i already said that).

Earth II exists as a game within a game to quote the mods. That means that all people who exist in Earth II exist in the grand NS universe. Those who choose to RP only in Earth II matters have the liberty to do that, not that I encourage it. We do allow non-Earth II people to participate if they wish to be rebels or something and this and that. You wanted a naval base in Earth II. How can you have a naval base without a country? This comes after way back when you and I had a discussion about you just not caring about these Earths anymore when I confronted you about having a claim in another Earth. Suddenly you care about the Earths?
You said it right there. "Earth II exists as a game within a game". If you dont want to play NS, then (IMHO) set up an off-site forum. There is no IC reason that my ships couldnt reach Earth II. THere is no IC reason for Earth II nations being allowed to defend their borders with ignore cannon. The original point of Earth II was to act as (belive it or not) a second earth. Ie Earth I, just a fresh world that wasnt already taken up by people. "How can you have a naval base without a country?" That also seems to sum it up. I DO actually have a country. It is called Praetonia. Earths were NEVER meant to be little worlds within worlds. As for caring about earths, I care about Earth III, an earth I now RP in. This thread is not about getting back at you for removing my Earth II territory (indeed I didnt actually have territory in other earths in the first place - I dont know where you got that from) I have no aspirations in Earth II. It merely seems like a major injustice, as it did back then, and it is one that will affect me now, although not really of my own choosing, ie this war with Generia, which I did not start.

The no multiple Earths rule is in effect because there are 50 Earths now and its just abuse city. One person on E2 didn't get what he wanted and started a new Earth and for that we removed him because that was blatantly taking advantage of the 150,000 square mile rule we put on those who wanted to stay in Earth II way back when we first had the problems.
Actually there are 7 Earths, and only 3 are any good (I, II and III... maybe IV too, but Ive not seen any decent Earth IV RPs).

The rule will not be repealed and it is not an alternative claims thread anymore. It is a separate and more independent entity in Nation-States, a game within a game. Binthor allowed Moronyicka, someone not in E2, to make an attempt at claiming Swaziland and we said fine, it was Binthor's decision. Afterwards we invited Moronyicka to come to Earth II and enjoy residence there.
Well then you've taken the name 'Earth II' and amde what should be an off-site RP, or some such Jolt equivilant, like World at War. I had no idea you've done this, so I will now ignore Earth II and everything (and one) in it.

The Phoenix Milita did a thread which basically was the NS Earth. In that thread you will find land by everyone, that's basically the main scheme. NS is a giant universe with planets and so on and so fourth. Everyone is part of that universe. Earth II is like a country-club in that universe except we're not really selective. Anyone can come so long as they abide by the simple rules we have set fourth. Only two people have been forcibly ejected, others either went inactive, got the DEAT, or respectfully rescinded their claims.
TPM's thread was just a "you can have whatever you like" thread, and not really and earth and certainly not helpful in RPs. I think I ignore that too.

So you can take over GEs land because he does exist in the grand NS Earth as do I, as does Colodia, etc. Some people may choose to just RP in Earth II and as I said, that's their perogative, I'm not going to dictate anything in that realm.
But still, GE will not lose his colonies. There is no way he could lose his colonies, and due to OOC restrictions, not any IC reason. My colonies dont have the ub3r defences of IGNORE that his have. This is nothing against GE, it is merely a flaw in the system.

DA has also not allowed people he personally ignores to claim territory. Now although I understand his reasoning, and know that other Earth "managers" may do the same, this is a clear indication that these Earth mangers are no longer acting merely as a neutral collator of information, but as creators and therefore owners of "their" Earths. People who wont allow others they ignore to claim territory on "their" earths even if they agree never to cross paths in what is essencially a very large place.



To be fair, I let Axis Nova in, since I figured if I couldn't remember why I ignored him, and it wasn't too seriously (obvious since I forgot why it can't be too important) there was no need to keep him out.

However, people whom have mutual ignores going with me, and were told dozens of times, often by mods, to simply STAY OUT of any threads made by me, shouldn't even bother trying to get into an Earth organized and managed by me. Makes sense doesn't it?

And there were a few other people I had on ignore that I let into Earth DA, since I couldn't remember why I had them on ignore either, (I think it was for "Chronic Poll skewing" voting for all options on numerous polls I ran, just to give me a headache) anyway, then there was Canad a, I unignored him after we worked out our differences over MSN.

I try to be fair and let anybody in Earth DA, but there are some folks that I won't talk to, and they know who they are, and they're not welcome in Earth DA. But 99.9% of folks are welcome in Earth DA.

No offense but DA's idea is in my eyes, kinda disgusting. People who have never done anything wrong to DA are not allowed to RP with him or others in EDA. Only because the EII manager gave his territory to other people when he was deleted.



He gave it to somebody who RPed saying, "All his people greet us with open arms" in the RP where he proclaimed "Mississippians Enslaved". That sort of godmod deserves nothing other than laughing, not "Okay, claim accepted, added" by a manager of an Earth.

Not to mention he gave all of Kahta's claims to his friends as well (he kicked Kahta out for arguing about his history of giving claims to friends who RPed, "I take it over, his people greet me with open arms")


http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385994

"The citizens of Mississippi have welcomed Germanian colonists and military with open arms, and there has been no resistance..."

An alliance could do this and they dont have to control every nation, just enough to dominante the place. You know what the original idea behind this is, its not a bad idea to have such a rule.
That has never happened, and I believe it never will.

Then give it to an ally or set up a new government like the US did with Germany after WW2. Is it that important for you to have the territory when you took it?
If it is then you are the one who should go home, because you are taking this way too serious.

Indeed I would not care because its only a game. Are you going to get mad behind your PC because you cant win? I'm a competitional gamer, i'd have an opportunity to get mad at the game(or person at the other side) every day. You need to take a vacation, you're taking this stuff too serious(i already said that).
You dont understand. Im not saying I WANT to seize his colonies (if he wins then I do, because that's what the nation that I happen to RP would actually do) but that I want TO BE ABLE to seize them, because:

a) He could seize mine. I believe in OOC equality for all players.
b) I want to RP a nation realistically. THerefore, I want to do what real nations could do. I know that modern nations dont do it, because it's seen as horrible nasty imperialism, but if you actually look back even to as late as the between-war years you'll see that most nations werent rosy Wilsonian anti-imperialists.

Praetonia, I have to agree with you on this. I'm Lindim, and my country is located at... Lindim. I use Indonesia as inspiration for my country, but then there's no reason why I can't go straight anywhere to another country.

Like you said, off-site forums would be the place for Earth II and other iterations, but on NS, it's a giant world with any combination of nations and locations.

He gave it to somebody who RPed saying, "All his people greet us with open arms" in the RP where he proclaimed "Mississippians Enslaved". That sort of godmod deserves nothing other than laughing, not "Okay, claim accepted, added" by a manager of an Earth.

Not to mention he gave all of Kahta's claims to his friends as well (he kicked Kahta out for arguing about his history of giving claims to friends who RPed, "I take it over, his people greet me with open arms")


http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385994

"The citizens of Mississippi have welcomed Germanian colonists and military with open arms, and there has been no resistance..."

I havent seen the thread, I have seen that you were angry for it and created a new earth where EII people were not welcome. That includes me, yet we have never met ICly.

Some people like the rules. Being restricted allows me to have a more believible, and interesting role play. Well, I guess thats just because I like insane amounts of realism. Whatever any one else wants to think is fine.
I dont see why not being able to attack people for no apparent IC reason, or only being able to navigate ships in specific OOC conditions, is realistic. It smacks me as being very unrealistic.

I havent seen the thread, I have seen that you were angry for it and created a new earth where EII people were not welcome. That includes me, yet we have never met ICly.


I would consider making exceptions for Earth IIers on a case-by-case basis. But anybody who godmodded their way through my claims, my friends claims, or heck, any claims, for Earth II, can just stay away from Earth DA.


I think most people that aren't welcome in Earth DA, know who they are.

You said it right there. "Earth II exists as a game within a game". If you dont want to play NS, then (IMHO) set up an off-site forum. There is no IC reason that my ships couldnt reach Earth II. THere is no IC reason for Earth II nations being allowed to defend their borders with ignore cannon. The original point of Earth II was to act as (belive it or not) a second earth. Ie Earth I, just a fresh world that wasnt already taken up by people. "How can you have a naval base without a country?" That also seems to sum it up. I DO actually have a country. It is called Praetonia. Earths were NEVER meant to be little worlds within worlds. As for caring about earths, I care about Earth III, an earth I now RP in. This thread is not about getting back at you for removing my Earth II territory (indeed I didnt actually have territory in other earths in the first place - I dont know where you got that from) I have no aspirations in Earth II. It merely seems like a major injustice, as it did back then, and it is one that will affect me now, although not really of my own choosing, ie this war with Generia, which I did not start.


Actually there are 7 Earths, and only 3 are any good (I, II and III... maybe IV too, but Ive not seen any decent Earth IV RPs).


Well then you've taken the name 'Earth II' and amde what should be an off-site RP, or some such Jolt equivilant, like World at War. I had no idea you've done this, so I will now ignore Earth II and everything (and one) in it.


TPM's thread was just a "you can have whatever you like" thread, and not really and earth and certainly not helpful in RPs. I think I ignore that too.


But still, GE will not lose his colonies. There is no way he could lose his colonies, and due to OOC restrictions, not any IC reason. My colonies dont have the ub3r defences of IGNORE that his have. This is nothing against GE, it is merely a flaw in the system.

They had you listed on that other Earth and I told you tell them that they should take you off the listing but you proceeded to have a hissy fit and say that all the Earths were stupid and you wanted no part of them. You would have been welcome in Earth II and you still are just under the rules like everyone else. We're not going to set up an off-site forum because it's like having CLOSED RPs. Earth II is a closed RP to anyone who isn't in Earth II. It's part of NS and many of us take what happens in E2 to affect our nation. If you read the latest update on the ignoring situation, I put a stop to stupid and pointless ignores that were thrown out there. And I do recall the original intention of Earth II, heck that's why I joined it. However, as it grew by leaps and bounds it became necessary to make it much clearer. Yes you have a country. Not in Earth II. Consider it a parallel universe if that'll help you understand.

If Generic Empire put an Earth II tag on that RP then you shouldn't be part of it at all. If he didn't then its fair game. I've done RPs without Earth II tags in front of them and I still do them. It's an outlet for us to RP as we would want to in a smaller Earth. NS Earth is about the size of the sun and frankly flying from one nation to the other is like 30,000 miles of just water. In Earth II, it's exactly the size as it would be in Earth in real life, as are the other Earths.

TPM is NS Earth. Yes you can have whatever you want because let's face it there are what 135,000 nations on right now? There is guaranteed to have some overlap. I know that where I am overlaps with about 5 other people, that I can confirm. That's why there are multiple continents. I think everyone should post on that thread and say where they are located on NS Earth because it will help RPs all the more easier.

And you refused to listen to me the what 4 times I said that Yerffej, the original Earth II creator, stated that my Earth II was Earth II. So I state it again. You will inevitably not listen again...

GE will lose his land in NS Earth. In Earth II he won't. Why is this concept so hard for everyone to understand. Small club, parallel universe, game within a game. You can't be part of a country-club and not part of the real world. Doesn't work that way. Same goes for here. I'm not aware of his IGNORE status and frankly if they are as dumb of reasons as I have seen others then he'll probably want to leave Earth II because we're not down for ignores. Canada just can't ignore the United States if they choose to invade, sorry but reality doesn't work that way, there is no power switch or mute on a remote to turn off countries of the world. Same goes for Earth II. If Celtayoshi wants to invade me in Newfoundland I can't throw out an ignore, that's tough luck. I have to recognize and fight him even if it's a stupid reason like, "Because..."

Guffingford, FYI. Earth II Revitalization is the same thing as Earth II. Yerffej got the DEAT and it wasn't active so Colodia had the idea of starting it up again. Since we didn't have capability to edit the original thread and Colodia didn't have the time to do it full-time I did it and put him as an equal. Hell we have Yerffej in E2 Revitalization (the propper name though it really is E2) and he's quite content. He's offered praise to us many times and it's good to have him in it because frankly it was HE who did it in the first place.

Canada just can't ignore the United States if they choose to invade, sorry but reality doesn't work that way, there is no power switch or mute on a remote to turn off countries of the world. Same goes for Earth II. If Celtayoshi wants to invade me in Newfoundland I can't throw out an ignore, that's tough luck. I have to recognize and fight him even if it's a stupid reason like, "Because..."There's one HUGE problem with your argument. This ISN'T real life. This is a GAME where there's no rule that forces anyone to RP with anyone else. Yes, if the United States invaded Canada just because they wanted to annex it, they couldn't ignore that because it's a RL situation.

However, if some random country decides they want to launch a terrorist attack on me that kills my president without contacting me first and getting my permission when I have storylines involving him many RL months down the road, I have every bloody right to ignore that because 1) I shouldn't be forced to RP something I don't want to and 2) he didn't contact me first. That's the way free-form RP works.

Granted, if Celtayoshi approaches you with a well-considered RP where he invades you in Newfoundland, I would hope you'd have a good reason not to get involved in it. But no one is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to RP every little thing.

I deal with it this way: If you don't mark it as being a certain Earth, it's the main NS Earth. In other words, I would call someone for godmoding if he pulled his Earth # bull on a thread not marked as such.

Now, to be really evil: Technically, I can get to any of the Earths with ease. I just choose to stay with the main NS Earth.

I dont see why not being able to attack people for no apparent IC reason, or only being able to navigate ships in specific OOC conditions, is realistic. It smacks me as being very unrealistic.
I don't do that. If your refering to the embargo, that can be explained. And I don't really ignore people. That is unrealistic. If your not refering to me, I agree. There really does have to be an IC reason.

It's not that someone is going to force you to ignore or recognize an attack, but that it separates the game arbitrarily according to the dictums of a few people.

Sarzonia: attack, but that it separates the game arbitrarily according to the dictums of a few people.

Ya know, accidentally releasing plans for a StarGate that modern nations can build would solve that problem. After all, they're not using tech they don't have to build it.

I deal with it this way: If you don't mark it as being a certain Earth, it's the main NS Earth. In other words, I would call DA for godmoding if he pulled his Earth DA bull on a thread not marked as such.

Now, to be really evil: Technically, I can get to any of the Earths with ease. I just choose to stay with the main NS Earth.



I'm not sure what bull you mean...

I'm not sure what bull you mean...

Eh, ignore it as general pissiness on my part. I've been annoyed in the past by people who have started a thread, and then claimed it as being on Earth # when it is not marked as such. It's rare, but an annoyance. You can easily substitute your name and Earth for any other. In fact, I think I'll edit it to reflect that.

In my opinion every earth except for Earth I (which I can tolerate as part of being NS Earth) has been fairly exclusive. Earth II threads are clearly marked so, and only anyone affiliated with Earth II would be interested to look in. Earth III, IV, V, VI, and so forth - if they still exist - were roughly the same. They were pretty much like regions, except they allowed nations to grab large amounts of extra land and populations.

I always thought this was a rather haphazardous arrangement. Earth I was alright, had no problems with that. After that...I tend to stay away from Earth insert-number-here related affairs. It doesn't make sense to me, but if people want to run it and manage it like they do, they can go right ahead, and if it decays, it's not going to do anything to me.

This has always struck me as stupid. Why should you have to have territory on an earth to RP on it? Weren't these earths originally created to open up RP oppurtunities? They certainly weren't created to impede RPing by becoming little RP worlds all of themselves.

This odd trend in Earth RPing is more prominant in Earth II, which not only has the "not having territory means your attacks can be ignored" but also a "You must have claims on Earth II only if you want anything on Earth II". This strikes me as ludicrous in the extreme. Praetonia exists in a world which consists of "NS Earth" an esencially inifinite land that the more imaginative of us use for our homelands, and then all of the Earths, including I.

Praetonian ships can move between them with impunity as there is no IC reason why they shouldnt be able to. I mean if you want to invade something on Earth II / III / IV or whatever your ships have to get there in the first place, right? So is there some idiotic flaw of navigation that means your ships can only get there if they have the intention of invading it? I dont think so.

Earth I never had and still doesnt have these restrictions. Earth I was merely the real life earth, which acted like a collection of NPC states and wasnt "run" or "owned" or "ruled" by anyone. Sure, people made claims threads, but these were merely to collate all the info about who owned what and only n00bish claims or claims of land already taken were not added. This was a part of what I call 'NS Earth' and existed alongside peoples' nations which existed in non-RL landmasses.

Earth II was originally set up to be a way for people who, having been muscled out of Earth I by huge and largely inactive nations (most of which have long since migrated to NationStates or stopped RPing), to be allowed the oppurtunity to get some RP colonies on Earth. This seems to have lost its way. Earth II, and indeed most of the other Earths, have been handed over to new management, and although I can say with confidence that Layarteb and Colodia are doing a great job, Earth II is moving away from an alternate RL claims thread to a selective little RP world of its own.

Indeed, I am currently at war with Generic Empire. Now, as his territory is in Earth II, he could choose to IGNORE me. Thankfully, GE isnt the kind of person who takes advantage of stupid rules like that to hide from damage, but even so, I am not allowed, under the Earth II rules, to invade his territory, as I would be "Claiming Earth II territory without ceading my other claims on other earths". Meanwhile, he is allowed to attack my nation, it existing in 'NS Earth' and occupy it with impunity, as well as any of my colonies. Does this sound fair to you? To me it sounds moronic.

Earth DA appears to have gone a little further even than Earth II in allowing someone to claim their NS Earth homeland as part of this 'Earth'. This effectively means that anyone who attempts to invade someone who claims their made-up homeland in Earth DA can ring their borders with IGNORE cannon against anyone except other Earth DA players.

DA has also not allowed people he personally ignores to claim territory. Now although I understand his reasoning, and know that other Earth "managers" may do the same, this is a clear indication that these Earth mangers are no longer acting merely as a neutral collator of information, but as creators and therefore owners of "their" Earths. People who wont allow others they ignore to claim territory on "their" earths even if they agree never to cross paths in what is essencially a very large place.

Ive begun to see more and more that Earths are becoming RP worlds of their own, and that is not something that I like the sound of. I enjoy nationstates purely because it is a dynamic experience, where the actions of others affect you in a way that rather closely mirrors what happens in real life, and a place where you cant ignore someone just because you dont like what they're doing. A place where everyone can interact and everyone HAS to accept what other people do, so long as it is reasonable.

I would not want to see Earths erode that, and so I say now that anyone may invade any of my Earth claims without fear of ignore (unless you're a godmodder, of course), and if, when I attempt to invade your earth claims and you protest, I will ignore you for being a damned n00b. I also appeal for Layarteb and Colodia to repeal the Earth II claiming rule. Im sorry to put it so bluntly, but Earths have lost their way, and I refuse to be sucked in with the madness.

A-f***ing-men, brother....Amen.

Let's say, if an RP has 4 people claiming Russia I only recognize earth I. He was the first to claim it, so be it. It's hard and not really fair for the others but you got to draw the line somewhere. What else can you do? Russia, Russia, Russia vs USA, USA and USA?

Well, this is something called Common Sense. I have diplomatic ties to many fellow "Soviets." For the most part I ignore geography and act as thought they are on a seperate continent. I avoid getting into such situations with them.

However, let's assume all my resources were exhausted, and I find I have to go to war with someone who claims Soviet Russia. So I talk with them, and we arrange for him to have the East and I to have the West, or north and south, or just the SSRs. SOME ARRANGEMENTS would be made, we wouldn't sit there and fizzle until someone 'surrendered.' COMMON SENSE.

DemonLord...thingy... anyways, what were you referring to?

Ignoring is fine, but when you ignore and have to pay attention according to someone else so you can play with someone else is not fine.

If that didn't make sense sematically, let me know.

What many of you are forgetting is that it is freeform roleplaying, not reality or an RTS videogame.

They had you listed on that other Earth and I told you tell them that they should take you off the listing but you proceeded to have a hissy fit and say that all the Earths were stupid and you wanted no part of them. You would have been welcome in Earth II and you still are just under the rules like everyone else. We're not going to set up an off-site forum because it's like having CLOSED RPs. Earth II is a closed RP to anyone who isn't in Earth II. It's part of NS and many of us take what happens in E2 to affect our nation. If you read the latest update on the ignoring situation, I put a stop to stupid and pointless ignores that were thrown out there. And I do recall the original intention of Earth II, heck that's why I joined it. However, as it grew by leaps and bounds it became necessary to make it much clearer. Yes you have a country. Not in Earth II. Consider it a parallel universe if that'll help you understand.
You actually said that I had territory in Earth IV, I never checked that, and you later said I wasnt listed there. THEN, when you admitted I didnt have territory in Earth IV you said I could have my earth II territory. I said I'd give up the Falklands and sell Japan to Hogsweat because I was no longer interested in Earth II. You then gave Hogsweat to some random nation Ive never heard of and said some rubbish about me having to post it on the thread which you never mentioned to me. That, combined with the territory rule has lead me to renounce and now ignore Earth II, and join Earth III instead.

That just confused me. Anyway, this is nothing to do with that situation - I never RPed with my Earth II territory except with the Falklands once and that never got finished.

Now, apart from the first comment being extremely condescending and insulting, these two just plain contradict each other:

"Yes you have a country. Not in Earth II. Consider it a parallel universe if that'll help you understand."

"You can't be part of a country-club and not part of the real world. Doesn't work that way. Same goes for here."

I really have no clue what, if anything, you are trying to say.

Personally I have always ignored these "Earth Claims" threads for the shear pointless value which they present, including the first one managed by Chellis and the news ones which have recently been created. Whats the point in claiming bits of Real Life nations when several nations (and regions for that matter) go by the same name and map as that nation? Why not simply just take the bits you like, such as the maps, culture and people... and then simply name it after your nation for NS Earth? The majority of nations in Nationstates do this and it stops these petty arguements of who owns what RL nation when there are simply too many people in NS to take a piece of RL land each.

I don't know about everyone else, but I like having fictional nations made to interesting concepts which each player molds on their own... copying some real nation tends to remove the fictional part of NS we like.


In anycase, I've got a rather simple system for dealing with nations who claim real life land... I generally always look at a nation as it's NS stats and name, ignoring any RL terrain which isn't their mainland. If their mainland is based on RL land, then it's only the same as that RL land in features such as the map or whatever else they RP... only I never concider it to be the RL nation, just like it in many ways.

Seeing as that sounds complex... I'll explain it with an example.

Knootoss:

Knootnoss is pretty much the same as Holland in many respects... however, seeing as Holland doesn't exist to Iuthia, the geography is the same only the nation is called "Knootoss" and not "Holland" and regardless of how many nations Knootoss claimed to annex from RL nations (not that he has) I wouldn't concider them additional to his NS population. Though to be fair his NS population is, like mine, pretty obcene. Knootoss is in a region much like Europe, however the nations surrounding him aren't the RL nations of Europe but are instead other NS equivolents of the nations in Europe.


The perpose of this is that reguardless of the RL nation you claim, I don't have to ignore one claim because someone else already has it because I don't recognise any claims.


Coming back to the Earth thread... I only like one and it's this thread:

Earth N+1 (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=348544)

Because lets face it, while the first Earth thread was basically saying which nations in NS Earth actually have RL nations... the newer ones are claiming a whole new universe in order to claim nations already taken. This means that NS is becoming fractured as some people only RP in one universe and others only RP in the other.

But meh... at least I have yet to see any nation in the NS forum RPing in Earth (insert number) only.

But meh... at least I have yet to see any nation in the NS forum RPing in Earth (insert number) only.

Look a few threads below this one.

Look a few threads below this one.

Sorry, it was badly worded. I meant the Nationstates Section of the Nationstates forum. The forum which I've found more interesting character RPs in because most of them understand how the world works.

There's one HUGE problem with your argument. This ISN'T real life. This is a GAME where there's no rule that forces anyone to RP with anyone else. Yes, if the United States invaded Canada just because they wanted to annex it, they couldn't ignore that because it's a RL situation.

However, if some random country decides they want to launch a terrorist attack on me that kills my president without contacting me first and getting my permission when I have storylines involving him many RL months down the road, I have every bloody right to ignore that because 1) I shouldn't be forced to RP something I don't want to and 2) he didn't contact me first. That's the way free-form RP works.

Granted, if Celtayoshi approaches you with a well-considered RP where he invades you in Newfoundland, I would hope you'd have a good reason not to get involved in it. But no one is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to RP every little thing.

That would be godmodding which is a legitimate reason to ignore. However, if he puts a division on my border and doesn't godmod there's not a reason there for ignore. Therein the basic prinicple of our ignore rules.

I agree with Praetonia on all counts(even though I control territory in Earth III).

The reason I like Earths, when I do, is that some times it's fun to RP something other than your nation....like an RL territory. That's m' two cents.

I saw going into an Earth thread as a way to get more involved in the RP's. With a world as large as NS and with as many threads as there are in the forums, it's hard to find your place (especially for younger nations). The Earths concentrate nations together into small groups where one can build an RP community from there. Of course, the same could be said for any region as well, but since I base my nation on a RL one (Rome) I'd rather have RL territory.

Plus, getting (most) of what I want on Earth II helps...

For RPing on Earths..... Its fine when you RP the civilians or terrorists or guerillas, but to invade, obviously it makes sense that one needs to have a piece of land first on the Earth itself, right? Else, where are the troops coming from? How's one going to account for the logistics?

I think it will be best if Earth managers introduce rules which allow nations to invade another on a particular Earth only when they have a territory to operate out of, such as the lands of an ally if one doesn't own any place on that Earth. That would allow flexibility between the Earths, I believe, while preserving realism.

I still don't see the point in these Earths though... I mean, most people who use them are actually just doing it to invade nations which don't have players behind them so they automatically concider themselves the winners.

You don't need to own a certain nation... you have your own nation which has your own name to use, meanwhile NS Earth is large enough for everyone and is filled with nations which have real players behind them, not some NPC island you can thoroughly pwn because you want to be a big player.

New Earths naturally have lots of spaces

But, as it gets filled up, its a nice way for RPing with realism

New Earths naturally have lots of spaces

But, as it gets filled up, its a nice way for RPing with realism

In opposed to just RPing normally with realism? I don't know about you but having people invade some Earth nation automatically assuming the people of that nation they invaded are happy to be part of that empire isn't all that realistic to me.

I've seen normal NS wars without the Earth's which are realistic... it's just they use their own nations and not some copy of RL nations which defeats the point of roleplaying your own nation. People complain about realism but still continue to have obcene military sizes along with super fast military deployments... and I'm not just talking about normal NS, but the "Earths" too.

The only difference is that they have created a seperate universe to play in with the geography of Earth... personally I don't see why people can't just stay in the normal NS universe and assume any nation not directly next to them is 2 weeks away by sea.

I said "as it gets filled up"

naturally you can be just as realistic without Earths

But with Earths it is easier, because there are set geographical data avaliable, as opposed to everything in imaginations.

The only difference is that they have created a seperate universe to play in with the geography of Earth... personally I don't see why people can't just stay in the normal NS universe and assume any nation not directly next to them is 2 weeks away by sea.
That's the point. "NS Earth" is just a series of massive islands that contain all the natural resources and farm land anyone could ever want. It gets dull like that, and as much more fun as it would be to do this in an imagined world, no one has made this NS Earth nor do I think will they.

Seriously, what's the point of having any earth at all? If you want [insert territory] then rp as having it. If you have a fight with a nation with the same landmass, work it out between you (Island on Island wouldn't actually be too bad).

Well, assuming one nation RPed itself as being like America, or a part of America as we've seen in many cases, then what actually happens in my mind is that they have a landmass which is similar to it but is named as their nation.

So, if one nation which is like America (Nation 1) fought another (Nation 2), neither would be America, they would be Nation 1 and Nation 2...

If they wanted to fight one another on the same land, RPing something like a civil war (actually I find that to be a cool concept, two nations states claiming to be the same nation, but different factions would make for good RP) they could do so... or more likely they would both be their own nations several weeks away from the other... even if their land is similar they are essentially both different nations.

Ultimately it comes down to working it out between one another... personally I have my own map for Iuthia with it's own history and it's not based off any nation in real life (look at Iuthia and it's pretty fucked up in places) though it does follow some rules from England because it's a nation I identify with being English myself.

I don't really go in for this whole Earth II-X crap... it's not something I want to get involved with. I may RP with the nations, but I'll concider it to be NS Earth in most cases because I'm not annexing some random Earth nation just to get in on some RP on a duplicate Earth. Iuthia exists on NS Earth, a Earth which is defined by the nations made up for Nationstates... it's much more interesting and provides the escape I like.

As hypocritical as this might be, seeing as I RP RL territories though not on a specific Earth, now I find myself thinking it would have been a much more amusing decision to create my own little chunk of the Balkans instead of grabbing up some existing land. That's why NS is NS, and why I dislike "A Modern World." The best part of the game is creating your own country. This doesn't just mean creating a culture that's slightly different than a RL country where your nation is supposedly located. It means creating an entire new world with it's own landmasses, geography, people, tongues, architecture, provinces, and neighboring countries. That's what we need to remember about NS. It's your country that you create yourself. It's not George Bush's, or Tony Blair's, or Vladimir Putin's.